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Why the LECOM hate?

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical Osteopathic [ DO ]' started by Caffeine18, 09.20.12.

  1. Caffeine18

    Caffeine18 C8 H10 N4 O2

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    I've been getting a vibe from a lot of SDNers that LECOM is the bottom of the barrel of DO schools. Yeah, there's a dress code. But what gives with all the hate? :confused:
    PhoenixFire likes this.
  2. FrkyBgStok

    FrkyBgStok DMU c/o 2016

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    tons of stuff but most is based on personal preference. PBL seems to me like a pain in the ass. Also from what I hear, the big selling point for the LECOM campuses is the cheap tuition. DMU pushes their huge alumni network, their state of the art facilities, the fact that 95% of the students end one of their top 3 residency choices. This is just an example but you contrast this to LECOM. I have heard from many people that when these issues, or any issues of this nature, are addressed, the standard response is "yeah but they have cheap tuition." Not a good selling point for me. Add this to the newness of a couple of the campuses, the lack of happiness from some of the students, and the dress code requirement even while studying in the library leaves much to be desired. I don't see many arguing that it is the bottom of the barrel, just not the top and all the schools that aren't at the top are going to have bad aspects.

    that being said, there are many very happy students at LECOM, some of which probably chose LECOM over DMU (not saying DMU is t!ts but it is all i know). And there are tons of people with positive reviews of LECOM. Plus, the tuition is cheap!
  3. JeetKuneDo

    JeetKuneDo

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    After almost two months two months of med school, I can't imagine wearing a shirt and tie everyday to class. I'd go crazy.
  4. toxicwombat

    toxicwombat

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    I always love it when FrkyBgStok quickly responds with a rational, level-headed response before others jump in and start spewing emotional crap.

    So yeah... good answer. Also consider the fact that LECOM is one of the only US MD/DO schools that advertises like crazy with internet banners, "spam" emails, etc. I'm not saying that's bad per se... but it's still interesting to ponder.
  5. zoner

    zoner

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    noticed how Stok ended the reply with "plus the tuition is cheap!" there you go

    plus, i hear that the reason why they have 100 % board passing rate is because they let you take the test only after you pass their pre board test, so duh!!!

    also another reason why people or i don't like LecomEEEEEEEEEEE is because they don't follow aacomas guideline on down payment. its just insulting and rude.....
  6. cabinbuilder

    cabinbuilder

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    I am one of those students who was very happy with LECOM. Why?

    1. They gave me the chance to be a doctor when no one else did
    2. It was close knit like family
    3. The dress code is not that bad, they just expect you to be professional since you are going to be a doctor, running an office, etc. Might as well get used to it now. Every job I worked at before going to medical school had a dress code - its just part of life.
    4. I got a great education
    5. And Yes, the tutition is low.

    For those students out there who don't have a lot of options or maybe don't have the greatest stats but have a great story and a overall interesting package you won't think twice about what others say about any specific school because once you get that acceptance letter, all the naysayers will still be waiting, and you will not think twice about all the issues that you thought would bother you.
  7. toxicwombat

    toxicwombat

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    Well I'd say this just about proves my point :rolleyes:
  8. MedPR

    MedPR

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    I honestly don't even know why a 100% board pass rate is impressive. Who cares about passing their boards? I'm pretty sure I'll care about doing well and I will not be happy with simply passing.
  9. toxicwombat

    toxicwombat

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    And this.
  10. QualityProcess

    QualityProcess On the road

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    I didn't like that you couldn't have bottled water in the library at the Bradenton campus.
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  11. MedPR

    MedPR

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    :eek::thumbdown:
  12. DavetheMD

    DavetheMD

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    Someone only looking to try their hand at general practice?
  13. MedPR

    MedPR

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    Perhaps, but higher board scores = more choice of residency location. Not to mention the personal satisfaction of knowing you are capable of more than passing.
  14. pianoman511

    pianoman511 Member

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    Before going there I would have agreed regarding the board pass rate...but afterwards I would say its a good thing. Do you want to fail your boards ? Do you want to pay another >$600 and have a potential black mark on residency apps ? It may sound like a pain, but it is really their way of ensuring you graduate. They do the same thing for step two. That being said, some people do fail (in Erie...not sure if Bradenton is still 100% pass), but not a ton.

    In terms of LECOM hate, a lot has to do with a premed sentiment that you should have all this freedom now that you're going to medical school. If a shirt and tie, mandatory attendance, and no food or drink in a classroom is that prohibitive, maybe medicine is not for you (or just go elsewhere). Once you get in to the real world of medicine you have to deal with things like quality measures, core measures, documenting at the appropriate level, corporate dress codes and codes of conduct, etc. Things that will make "wear a shirt and tie" seem like child's play.

    As for tuition, it may not seem like a ton of help, but when you go to a school with low tuition and low cost of living, you will see the difference in the long run. Just remember, wherever you go to medical school you'll be a doctor.

    Oh yeah, and medical school is supposed to be hard...just sayin'
    Last edited: 09.21.12
  15. gc91

    gc91 OMS1

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    If I could have applied solely to LECOM I would have.
  16. Icy Snow

    Icy Snow

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    Lecom Bradenton claims they score much higher than the national average on their boards while getting close to 100 percent pass rate every year.
  17. dntke1518

    dntke1518

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    This... That's just one more thing to plan for and take time out of your day. Don't get me wrong I love looking good, but it would get to burden for me eventually.
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  18. ModernAlchemist

    ModernAlchemist Transform and Transcend

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    I actually wouldn't mind the dress code at all. In grad school, I pretty much dressed that way, regardless. Maybe I should have applied there...
  19. GypsyHummus

    GypsyHummus

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    I agree, looking fabulous takes alot of work.
  20. MedPR

    MedPR

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    I have no intention of failing boards and I honestly don't understand why anyone would plan on needing that safety net.

    Its not like you cant use prep material to gauge your progress. How is passing LECOM's mock test anymore of a guarantee than passing practice prep tests and getting passing averages on uworld?
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  21. serenade

    serenade Medical Alchemist

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    It's a mid ranked school with cheap tuition at the expense of having an undergraduate class size. This combined with other things, draconian policies, weather, and other things you have a school that poses a headache. Not to mention that many people are in for prestige.
  22. timmaycakes

    timmaycakes

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    As someone accepted to LECOM, I was initially worried about stuff some people were saying about the school. Like OP, I was wondering about the school's rep from SDN. Also if you search FLEECOM on youtube you will find some vids made by disgruntled students.

    LECOM is the largest medical school in the US (2000 total enrollment :eek:). I think they do that in order to institute some sort of "quality control". Hypothetically, if all medical schools have the same failing %, numbers-wise LECOM will end up having a lot of marginal and board-failing students. The safety net is there for them I guess.

    For the same reason, I think that's why LECOM is perceived as draconian and controlling. They need a lot of quality control to keep outside perceptions of their program positive (clinical preceptors, hospital affiliations, pre-meds, etc). As stated before, LECOM does face more scrutiny if more of their borderline students are out there. Although I see that their perception-altering strategy hasn't worked 100% for SDNers :D

    I've spoken to a few LECOM grads and they are now in great places. Apart from a couple of complaints they generally had a positive experience. I've heard worse complaints from students in MD schools (in my personal experience).
    Last edited: 09.21.12
  23. MedPR

    MedPR

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    I understand what you're saying about LECOM's motivation (for lack of a better word) to have that board pre-test, but what I still don't understand is why students (or at least some people here) value it so highly.

    Edit: It's like saying that a reason you go to a specific undergrad is they give you Kaplan MCAT prep which guarantees a higher score than your diagnostic.. Big deal.
  24. 411309

    411309 zzzz

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    I went to a lecom-b interview and just did not like it. Im not insulting the school and this is all my opinion but through the interview i felt like i didnt really matter, lol, just a cog in the machine. When i first walked in the building, I was welcomed by a rude security guard who was a jerk to the interviewees. Great way to start the day. I don't like mandatory attendance..come on im 23 years old paying for my tuition..this isnt high school. Dress code is just a big no no for me. And tbh I couldnt get into PBL. There wasnt really a personal touch,i felt like I just blended in and it didnt seem fun to me. You cant even have water bottles...like some of their polircies are real hardcore, i felt like they were half med school and half military school.
  25. MedPR

    MedPR

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    Yea no water in the library sounds lame.. I can't study without a drink.
  26. timmaycakes

    timmaycakes

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    to be frank I don't understand it either. just another hoop to jump through in the circus act we call med school :D
  27. selttiks288

    selttiks288

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    I don't think dress code or mandatory attendance has anything to do with it. NSU has both and it doesn't get hate like LECOM. I personally get irritated by the four week deposit rule but other than that I'm not sure why LECOM gets a bad name on SDN. Most people come back from interviews happy.
  28. gators21

    gators21

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    Ohh premeds. First Lecom should really be split into two entities. Lecom and lecom B. they really are run like two different school. I only have experience with lecom b, so all my comments are for it.
    Now, the Lecom hate really only stems from premeds. Frkybgstok put it perfectly. IMO if you chose a med school for those reason you chose incredibly stupidly. Things like "state of the art facilities" or happy students in the halls look great on a pamphlet. and you can take that pamphlet and use it for tp. If you really want to spend an extra 60000 dollars for things that have absolutely no bearing on you becoming a good doctor, cool. Ill spend that money elsewhere. The only legit reason is the faculty network, which is understandable being lecom b is relatively new.

    MedPR, hate to break it to you but most likely your not as smart or special as you think you are. Just by the odds you will end up in primary care and average board scores. Now a school that has a very high pass rate obviously teaches the students well enough to make sure you will become a doctor

    As for dress code, I would rather spend 2 hours, three days a week for pbl in a shirt and tie than 8 hours a day of lecture 5 days a week in scrubs. Also the dress code is only m-f until 5 pm. You can wear whatever during the other hrs
  29. selttiks288

    selttiks288

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    If you like LECOM you should apply/go to LECOM. It's all about where you're going to be happy.
  30. angldrps

    angldrps

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    Honestly, after interviewing at LECOM, I would say ignore all the hate you read on SDN. Majority of it is from those who don't even go to this school. The only "hate" posts you should be taking seriously are the ones from current/former students. Even though they have WL me, I would still not hate on LECOM as a school. Go to the interview and decide for yourself.
    lovemangoes likes this.
  31. xxstevecxx

    xxstevecxx

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    I feel like I can add something of value here: I work in an allopathic EM residency and the 4th year lecom students from bradenton that we've had were rock stars. One had a 240 something USMLE. Say what you want about the school but the bottom line is they get results and get you ready for the match. At the end of the day thats all you can ask for. Residency is where the real training begins. As for lecom PA those students were also rock stars but none have had the scores the folks from PBL have had. I actually not a fan of PBL but for those that are it seems to get the desired result.
  32. MedPR

    MedPR

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    Not being satisfied with passing automatically means I think im special? You're pretty out of touch with the real world.. either that or you're bitter you go to a bottom tier DO school.

    You also don't understand statistics. Are 51% of physicians in primary care? Nope. Of the match lists I've seen I think about 35-37% match into primary care (IM, FM, Peds). That leaves upwards of 60% in everything else. Statistically, most people end up in "everything else". Plus, the majority of people who match into IM will specialize and no longer be a primary care provider. In other words, "just by the odds" I'll end up in something other than primary care.

    Edit: Also, I don't know about COMLEX, but passing for USMLE Step 1 is 188, while the average is somewhere in the 220s. There's nothing "special" about being average, but it's certainly significantly better than just passing. That's been my point all along. Simply "passing" boards is nothing to be proud of. You are expected (read: required) to pass.

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile
    Last edited: 09.21.12
  33. 411309

    411309 zzzz

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    This was a super rude post, everyones entitled to their own opinions..lets not throw personal attacks at each other -_-. Like I said, I don't doubt lecom is a good school. It's just not for me, and I knew that after I interviewed there really. it may be a perfect fit for others though, it really just depends on the person. I wouldnt call lecom or any DO school a diploma mill, that term is reserved for carib schools. I have zero doubt lecom produces great doctors, I just could tell it wasnt the school for me and I know some people feel the same way. But theres also going to be people that love it. I expect the same with acom, some people will interview there and fall in love like me. Others might not like it.

    I swear MedPR has a target on his back, lol.
  34. MedPR

    MedPR

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    Oh and no, there's a high pass rate at LECOM because LECOM doesn't allow students to take boards until LECOM says so, not necessarily because LECOM prepares its students better than other schools do. Everyone knows how well you do on boards is based on you, not your school.

    Edit: I don't understand how so many of the best and brightest in UG suddenly turn around and are satisfied with passing. I realize that med school is hard and even smart people end up looking average (or worse) so I understand if through M1/M2 your mindset changes, but these are pre-meds we're talking about. Pre-meds/M0s who are saying "well, LECOM has a 100% pass rate, so I should go there to make sure that I pass". Seriously?
  35. gc91

    gc91 OMS1

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    Hey, at the end of the day that's all I want. *shrugs* I don't get why that's somehow a bad thing.
  36. MedPR

    MedPR

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    It's not a bad thing, and it has nothing to do with primary care. I'm confused why people (even those of you who want to go into less competitive fields) don't want to even try and get competitive board scores. Higher score = more choice of where you go, plus you never know how your perception of certain specialties can change during M3.

    Say you really wanted to go to your state MD/DO school and you knew their median IS matriculant was a 3.5/27 and you have a 3.5 GPA. Are you going to go into your MCAT prep just trying to get a 27? Or are you going to try and get something higher? I'd hope you would try to get a higher score to increase your chances of getting into what you want. You might not need a 35, but there's no reason not to even try for it.
  37. QualityProcess

    QualityProcess On the road

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    :laugh:
  38. xxstevecxx

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    220's and and good grades your going to a good EM residency. You want Ortho, Derm ect you need a bit higher scores and equally impressive grades.
  39. selttiks288

    selttiks288

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    Yeah I agree. Even if you want primary care (like me) why would you not want to kick butt on boards? It only opens up the possibilities of where you could go for residency.
  40. Dharma

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    .
    Last edited: 02.15.13
  41. selttiks288

    selttiks288

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    Haha right? So much hate for someone they've probably never met.
  42. ModernAlchemist

    ModernAlchemist Transform and Transcend

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    I definitely agree with this, but I'm still kind of skeptical to side with the Dharma people.... they freak me out...
  43. gators21

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    Stop speaking of things you have absolutely no knowledge about. For the love of god you havent even started med school yet.
    Lecom does not prevent its students from taking the boards. If you pass all your classes, then you are allowed to sit for the boards. How is that not different than any other school? The diagnostic you take is to mak sure you wont fail. You know, nobody who has scored above 65 has EVER failed comlex. Thats the reason you take it, to make sure you can go on rotations and not be pulled because you failed comlex. I dont know about you, but iplan on graduating on time And if you do fail, then you take a kaplan like course to prepare you. But if you are in good academic standing, then you take the boards.

    Cole rereading that part about frky it did sound a little rude, not my intention. Was not meant to him but more a general pre med.

    But to medpr, i understand statistic just fine. Way to skew stats in your favor. "match lists you saw". Hahaha real reputable statistic there. Also fm, peds, and im are not what is considered primary care. Pretty sure your forgetting several specialties. Obgyn, gen surg, and em are all considered pc.
    Sorry for typos, ipads suck for typing
  44. gc91

    gc91 OMS1

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    I can only speak for myself, but all I want is to be a rural family practitioner. I don't want a high-end residency, a fabulous specialty, or a lab where I can cure cancer. I want my own practice in a small town, where my kids go to school with the same kids I treat, and I see my patients at Mass on Sunday. I don't need top scores, or a high-tier school to do that, I just need a school, to pass my boards, and a residency program that will train me in all aspects of IM (including OB). It doesn't matter where it is, what it looks like, who it trains, as long as at the end of the day I'm on my way to doing what I want to do. Of course I care about what I score, but I'm not going to stress over trying to get a high score if it's not going to make a difference in the end. That's just me, anyway.
  45. MedPR

    MedPR

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    Yup. I was just showing the previous poster than passing =/= average.

    +1. The vast majority of us with specialties in mind will end up changing when we actually start learning stuff in med school.

    I don't mind a dress code to class and stuff, but I don't like the idea of having to put on a shirt and tie just to go to the library. I actually find professional attire very comfortable, but I don't want to sit and study in it for hours at a time. Plus, I simply don't have that large of a professional wardrobe.
  46. MedPR

    MedPR

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    While some may consider OB/GYN a primary care specialty, EM and general sugery certainly are not. Especially not surgery. You might need to learn the meaning of "primary care". You're right, I haven't started med school, but I've had a front row seat to my girlfriend's experience from M1 through the beginning of M3.

    You say my statistic is not reputable, but you don't provide one of your own to disprove mine. Show me a single match list where FM/IM/Peds makes up >50%. Also, I honestly can't take anything you say seriously until you learn the difference between your and you're.
  47. QualityProcess

    QualityProcess On the road

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    haha
  48. selttiks288

    selttiks288

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    I like how quickly this thread turned from a civil exchange of opinions to a toxic one. Everyone's a somewhat clueless pre-med before becoming a med student.
  49. Dharma

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    Last edited: 02.15.13
  50. Druggernaut

    Druggernaut Lifetime Donor

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    A passing COMLEX score is 400. And your sole acceptance to this point (NSUCOM) has something like an 89% first time pass rate if I recall correctly from my interview a few years ago. I'll take my 97% or so at my "low tier" DO school and save an extra hundred grand, thank you.

    But it's not a matter of being "satisfied with passing." Average board scores aren't typically released by schools (though LECOM is above the national average there as well), so we go with what they do put out there: first time pass rate. And while there isn't a perfect correlation, you can pretty safely assume that a school that has a higher first time pass rate will probably have a higher average score as well.

    There's a few things that I know I missed out on by declining my NSU acceptance, but I'm confident I'll end up with a higher board score at LECOM in PBL than I would've wasting my time in a lecture hall at NSU.

    That's not to say that there aren't valid criticisms of LECOM, but they rarely get touched on in pre-osteo. There's a surprising number of people who have come to like coming to class in professional attire, the no food or drink thing is a minor annoyance, and much of the administration's overbearingness can be avoided by just acting like an adult. The further you get from Erie, the less of an issue it is. But again, I'm a PBL student. The lecture students seem to be considerably less happy.

    The biggest potential shortcoming I can see is clinical rotations. It's my understanding that Bradenton's sites aren't as good, and they still haven't worked out a good system for divying up sites between Erie and Seton Hill. Nevertheless, it seems that things turn out okay, and LECOM grads are well-prepared in the end. There isn't any fancy technology or simulators, but I don't think those are required to be a good doctor, and there are occasional opportunities for the northern campuses to use the facilities of some area hospitals to do those things.

    We're beginning the process of setting up rotations now, and it's an unpleasant, anxiety inducing experience that has had me question coming here a few times, but I'm starting to come around and realize that things will be okay, and that I made the right decision in attending LECOM. They've added some sites recently that I expect will be pretty good, and they're already demonstrating improvements that could make them excellent in the coming years.

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