Why wasn't I ranked?

[brownie78]

If what you say is true, that's quite upsetting! Dont lose hope and hang in there, buddy!

thank you

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[brownie78]

Thank you very much to those who responded kindly, your comments are appreciated.
To those that are less than kind: remember that empathy and compassion are qualities that should make up a doctor's character.
Regardless of who they are talking to and regardless of anonimity. If being anonimous means to subtly harass people with comments that are less than intelligent then keep the vitriol for yourself.
I presented a story that was quite convoluted and bizarre and reading comments about being dressed in an unusual attire or behaving like a jerk is just offensive. I am always hesitant to participate in forums simply because most of them have a cuople of borderline abusive or mocking individuals who have fun stirring stupid arguments, nitpicking on grammar or other topics that are marginally related. If really the grammar gurus in here want to do something useful they could "teach" others how to express themselves more clearly instead of stating(between the lines): "oh maybe they did not pick you because your English sucks."
I would love that to be true that i was not picked because i was badly dressed or do not know how to speak, unfortunately it is a bit more complicated than that.

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

Ultimately, then, the initial question was rhetorical. Sorry it happened, and it's a question you should answer, but there's not much help here

 

[brownie78]

All you can do is hope maybe something comes out of the soap or something opens in the next couple of months.. Otherwise start bettering your app for next year... REMEMBER its only five months from now until the next cycle starts again!! So don't worry you won't be out of the game for too long!! Keep working hard you just need one place to rank you high enough one year!

thank you

 

[brownie78]

Ultimately, then, the initial question was rhetorical. Sorry it happened, and it's a question you should answer, but there's not much help here

No it was not rethorical, I do not think than anybody can answer my question if not the people involved in the ranking process. I do not think this is a question I can answer myself either. If I could explain the situation away I would not ask random people: when one is brainstorming, having different points of view from people can be illuminationg.
Some people have been indeed quite helpful, some have been quite rude. Or come across as tactless and rude. I realize that the communication that goes on in a forum is not the best, the lack of face to face must lead to a lot of misunderstandings. Shouldn't we all write concisely and clearly? Explaining away convuluted facts without wrinting a long essay can be challenging for a professional writer.
BUT Who would want to read a page long question on a forum? Who has the time to craft a literal work of art? Even so some folks would have fun finding rude things to say after not reading carefully your statement.
It is funny how people are completely tactless and then expect a polite response. I can understand asking how I was dressed for instance, but cannot tolerate the tone of the question. The right tone would have been: do you think your appearence had anything to do with it? Instead of assuming inappropriate attires!
Again despite this rant i thank all the people who have taken the time to respond kindly: it is much appreciated.

 

[dyeguy21]

I am new here, an IMG who just attempted the match for the second time. Received a total of 6 interviews.
My grades are not stellar but ok (220 step 1 and 225 step 2) I am an old grad.

So first off its IMG, which was apparently rough in this year's match and the scores you have are ok for an AMG (only a 5 point increase from step 1 to 2 as well), but a little below for a more competitive match for IMG.

All i want is a family medicine residency.

This makes me feel as if your words could be taken the wrong way. This has the connotation that you are saying its JUST an FM residency which isn't that hard to get into. The reality is that it is still hard to get into and people could take offense to an implied meaning.

Well i did not match which did not surprise me since i canculated my chances at 43%. What surprised me was that one place i interviewed at, was in the SOAP which means they did not rank me at all nor did they rank the other guys ahead of me.

No idea how you calculated your chances. You're assuming they ranked you in this scenario. The guys ahead of you were also likely on a DNR list for one reason or another. I don't know the specific program and their preferences as to their mix of residents.

Looking back i really cannot find any justification to why i was not ranked, i am not a creeper, a freak or negatively stand out.
I am waiting for the SOAP hoping to get a second chance maybe they will re-think this since they have met me?
Or they are so disgusted they won't bother?

So the problem may be that you are applying to an average place with average scores. It seems counter-intuitive, but applying to a location where you are the dead middle candidate is not in your favor, considering the generalized competitiveness of IMG matching. The wording here again proves to be somewhat off. A place wouldn't be disgusted with you, they may just not like you enough to rank you, however, trying again in SOAP isn't gonna hurt anything.

These programs only had 12 applicants, how many did they rank? This programs has both position unfilled.
Either there's something wrong with me or this is a strategy that i do not understand.

Places don't like to not fill, but if they seriously believe that there are better applicants in the SOAP pool, they are willing to try their luck. On average its 6-7 spots ranks per open spot. In this case, they may have ranked less.

Why would program directors go as far as paying for hotels investing money and then do not rank an applicant who came all the way to your remote location? By the way i really enjoyed this program.
Next time i will lie about my first choice, had i told one of those PDs i ranked him first maybe I would be in?

They do it for every applicant, they weren't trying to woo you with perks. This is also a slight glimmer into your psyche...you said, "I will just lie the next time around." I realize that you may not have said something like this directly on interview day, but these people are masters of interviewing. They see a lot of people every year and have seen many in the past, they know how to read people without even hearing you speak. Your body posture, how you interact with non-program people, how you interact with their residents, etc. all matters. In addition, the way in which you talk about subjects matters more than just the content.

So, after reading your whole post and not being nitpicky, we will never be able to tell you the exact reasons as to why you went unranked. What we can gleam is:

1. You seem to be defensive very quickly in all your replies to any level of criticism
2. Your scores are average for an AMG, not an IMG
3. You may have not fit in well with the personalities of the other residents and staff at the program
4. You ask for help and then immediately reject it
5. While you were complemented on your English and CV, there are some turns of phrase and statements that can come off awkward and can be misconstrued as rude or pompous.

These can be red flags for any program. As you have presented yourself as the model applicant and didn't get an offer, there simply HAS to be something else that we are not being told or can't appreciate in an online forum.

 

[robu058]

The only thing that bothers me with the OP is: how does he know that the said program only interviewed 33 applicants for 12 spots? How did he arrive to this number? This seems to me an inside knowledge, no?

 

[brownie78]

The only thing that bothers me with the OP is: how does he know that the said program only interviewed 33 applicants for 12 spots? How did he arrive to this number? This seems to me an inside knowledge, no?

I was told! By the PC and it was 33 for 1o, in the specific site, that is still fully unmatched, there was 12 applicants for 2 spots.
I do not know why they revealed the info. I know it sounds bizarre, in point of fact it is confusing to realize how there was a lot of people who were not ranked. For some reason they found us all unfit for the program. Why they found me and others unfit? Might have been that none of us really "clicked". Why was the PD of another smaller program so pushy in wanting the # rank?
Sometimes misunderstandings happen, in any sort of interaction, but not in this set of interviews: they went smoothly, perhaps too smoothly. Being shy or anxious might have been a factor, in my case, but i don't think it showed too much.
I don't think i am the first one or last to have this bizarre story to tell. It might be helpful to others to be very cautious to the smallest detail when they choose programs and go to interviews. As an interviewee, we all know, one needs to walk a fine line between humility and confidence, between looking enthusiastic but not desperate. And certaly i do not want to be lying in order to get a residency so i would have ranked mr Pushy PD #1 before telling him so. Never had the intent of lying but alas most people do on both sides (that is what i read).

 

[robu058]

I was told! By the PC and it was 33 for 1o, in the specific site, that is still fully unmatched, there was 12 applicants for 2 spots.
I do not know why they revealed the info. I know it sounds bizarre, in point of fact it is confusing to realize how there was a lot of people who were not ranked. For some reason they found us all unfit for the program. Why they found me and others unfit? Might have been that none of us really "clicked". Why was the PD of another smaller program so pushy in wanting the # rank?
Sometimes misunderstandings happen, in any sort of interaction, but not in this set of interviews: they went smoothly, perhaps too smoothly. Being shy or anxious might have been a factor, in my case, but i don't think it showed too much.
I don't think i am the first one or last to have this bizarre story to tell. It might be helpful to others to be very cautious to the smallest detail when they choose programs and go to interviews. As an interviewee, we all know, one needs to walk a fine line between humility and confidence, between looking enthusiastic but not desperate. And certaly i do not want to be lying in order to get a residency so i would have ranked mr Pushy PD #1 before telling him so. Never had the intent of lying but alas most people do on both sides (that is what i read).

I hear you loud and clear, bro!

 

[brownie78]

Also some the things that went on in these interviews might be red flags for future applicants:
1) Having the schedule messed up several times
2) Failing to receive appropriate and timely information
3) Forgetting to be invited to dinner
4) Having one of the interviews cancelled the last minute and being unable to have it reschedule

I do not think that this is usual when going to interviews. PCs are usually reliable and precise. This PCs made the school look foolish

 

[brownie78]

I hear you loud and clear, bro!

thank you

 

[mcl]

I was told! By the PC and it was 33 for 1o, in the specific site, that is still fully unmatched, there was 12 applicants for 2 spots.
I do not know why they revealed the info. I know it sounds bizarre, in point of fact it is confusing to realize how there was a lot of people who were not ranked. For some reason they found us all unfit for the program. Why they found me and others unfit? Might have been that none of us really "clicked". Why was the PD of another smaller program so pushy in wanting the # rank?
Sometimes misunderstandings happen, in any sort of interaction, but not in this set of interviews: they went smoothly, perhaps too smoothly. Being shy or anxious might have been a factor, in my case, but i don't think it showed too much.
I don't think i am the first one or last to have this bizarre story to tell. It might be helpful to others to be very cautious to the smallest detail when they choose programs and go to interviews. As an interviewee, we all know, one needs to walk a fine line between humility and confidence, between looking enthusiastic but not desperate. And certaly i do not want to be lying in order to get a residency so i would have ranked mr Pushy PD #1 before telling him so. Never had the intent of lying but alas most people do on both sides (that is what i read).

Applicants often ask how many people are being interviewed, and I always tell them--the previous year's info is in FREIDA anyway, and I know they want to do the math to determine their chances. Honestly, if they didn't fill any of their positions in the Match, and they are still unfilled this far into SOAP, I think there is something going on apart from you (or any other applicant). If you aren't successful in SOAP, and they still have unfilled positions after SOAP ends, you are free to contact them and express continued interest--but I'd go directly to the PD since your history with the PC is less than ideal. But you should seriously reach out to any unfilled or outside-the-match programs at that point and not put so much focus on the one that didn't rank you for whatever reason. It doesn't sound like a great place to be.

 

[robu058]

Applicants often ask how many people are being interviewed, and I always tell them--the previous year's info is in FREIDA anyway, and I know they want to do the math to determine their chances. Honestly, if they didn't fill any of their positions in the Match, and they are still unfilled this far into SOAP, I think there is something going on apart from you (or any other applicant). If you aren't successful in SOAP, and they still have unfilled positions after SOAP ends, you are free to contact them and express continued interest--but I'd go directly to the PD since your history with the PC is less than ideal. But you should seriously reach out to any unfilled or outside-the-match programs at that point and not put so much focus on the one that didn't rank you for whatever reason. It doesn't sound like a great place to be.

He is right! Sometimes you need to swallow your pride and initiate contact! Above is a sound advice ! That's what i would do too since you already have their contact infos! Who knows? They may have a change of heart after all!

 

[brownie78]

He is right! Sometimes you need to swallow your pride and initiate contact! Above is a sound advice ! That's what i would do too since you already have their contact infos! Who knows? They may have a change of heart after all!

Applicants often ask how many people are being interviewed, and I always tell them--the previous year's info is in FREIDA anyway, and I know they want to do the math to determine their chances. Honestly, if they didn't fill any of their positions in the Match, and they are still unfilled this far into SOAP, I think there is something going on apart from you (or any other applicant). If you aren't successful in SOAP, and they still have unfilled positions after SOAP ends, you are free to contact them and express continued interest--but I'd go directly to the PD since your history with the PC is less than ideal. But you should seriously reach out to any unfilled or outside-the-match programs at that point and not put so much focus on the one that didn't rank you for whatever reason. It doesn't sound like a great place to be.

I am waiting for the SOAP to be over. I do not have problems with pride(rather my problem is anxiety) and i will call them! I only have the PCs phone, and the PD and vice's email. I wish i could talk rather than write! Thank you

 

[NRAI2001]

I am waiting for the SOAP to be over. I do not have problems with pride(rather my problem is anxiety) and i will call them! I only have the PCs phone, and the PD and vice's email. I wish i could talk rather than write! Thank you

If the spots are still open its a great opportunity to reach out to the programs..... But either way it's not the end of the world... As a fellow IMG and with most of my friends and family being IMGs you have to come to the realization that being an IMG means that it may take you two or three tries before you match.. You shouldn't take not matching personal or as defeat. Just realize that not matching is just part of the process for IMGs.... You just gotta pick yourself up and prepare for next cycle..do whatever you need to better your chances next year. If it was your 5th or 6th time applying then you may have to consider other options..

 

[Ray D. Ayshun]

No it was not rethorical, I do not think than anybody can answer my question if not the people involved in the ranking process. I do not think this is a question I can answer myself either. If I could explain the situation away I would not ask random people: when one is brainstorming, having different points of view from people can be illuminationg.
Some people have been indeed quite helpful, some have been quite rude. Or come across as tactless and rude. I realize that the communication that goes on in a forum is not the best, the lack of face to face must lead to a lot of misunderstandings. Shouldn't we all write concisely and clearly? Explaining away convuluted facts without wrinting a long essay can be challenging for a professional writer.
BUT Who would want to read a page long question on a forum? Who has the time to craft a literal work of art? Even so some folks would have fun finding rude things to say after not reading carefully your statement.
It is funny how people are completely tactless and then expect a polite response. I can understand asking how I was dressed for instance, but cannot tolerate the tone of the question. The right tone would have been: do you think your appearence had anything to do with it? Instead of assuming inappropriate attires!
Again despite this rant i thank all the people who have taken the time to respond kindly: it is much appreciated.

My point is, you might wanna ask PDs that didn't rank you. We only hear your perspective on this. You seem reasonable, but presumably, actually, definitely, there was something wrong if you weren't ranked at all. We'll just never be able to figure it out here. One suggestion might be, don't be the type of person who starts this type of thread. Handle your business, and ask questions that can be answered...

 

[brownie78]

I find interesting to know if others had similar experiences. Since some residents have been in meetings with PDs and know more than i do.

If the spots are still open its a great opportunity to reach out to the programs..... But either way it's not the end of the world... As a fellow IMG and with most of my friends and family being IMGs you have to come to the realization that being an IMG means that it may take you two or three tries before you match.. You shouldn't take not matching personal or as defeat. Just realize that not matching is just part of the process for IMGs.... You just gotta pick yourself up and prepare for next cycle..do whatever you need to better your chances next year. If it was your 5th or 6th time applying then you may have to consider other options..

thank you I appreciate your comment so much!

 

[brownie78]

My point is, you might wanna ask PDs that didn't rank you. We only hear your perspective on this. You seem reasonable, but presumably, actually, definitely, there was something wrong if you weren't ranked at all. We'll just never be able to figure it out here. One suggestion might be, don't be the type of person who starts this type of thread. Handle your business, and ask questions that can be answered...

It would be naive to assume that i will ever hear the PD perspective!
LOL

 

[ThoracicGuy]

It would be naive to assume that i will ever hear the PD perspective!
LOL

Give it a few weeks and then reach out to programs you interviewed at and ask. Some won't talk with you, but you might find a couple that will. Ask them how you can improve your application for next year. It's worth a shot.

 

[brownie78]

Give it a few weeks and then reach out to programs you interviewed at and ask. Some won't talk with you, but you might find a couple that will. Ask them how you can improve your application for next year. It's worth a shot.

Great idea! I will try that! I am already crafting emails. And then i will call.

 

[NRAI2001]

Give it a few weeks and then reach out to programs you interviewed at and ask. Some won't talk with you, but you might find a couple that will. Ask them how you can improve your application for next year. It's worth a shot.

Good advice!! Could find out what caused you to be ranked lower and if there is anything you can do to fix it.