Will anyone actually discuss salary? Let's see...

[psyman]

For some reason, it seems taboo to discuss salary in our field. My professors and supervisors to date just avoid the discussion or respond with vague answers. I know what the Department of Labor statistics show, but I'm curious to hear from new graduates (within 5 years) about salaries in the field.

If anyone would be so daring, kindly post the salary and position of a job you know exists or has existed. For example, PhD psychologist, currently 2 years after licensure making $XX at university counseling center doing this and this, full time. If it was in the past, you could post the year as well obviously. Location helps, too.

I'll start. I know of a curent PsyD newly licensed making $50k doing "evals." This is in the southeastern US. And no it's not me.

Also, I'm curious to hear if others are having difficulty finding work and possible reasons (geographic area, specialties, limitations, etc.).

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[Therapist4Chnge]

Offers I have seen for neuropsychologists and rehabilitation psychologists coming out of a 2yr fellowship:

VA: $83k (midwest, clinician)*
Group private practice: $80k-$120k+ (Midwest, out-pt., productivity bonuses for $100k+)***
Academic Med: $85k (Midwest, assistant prof., clinician w. some research)**
Academic Med: $77k (Midwest, assistant prof., clinician w. some research)**
Academic Med: $83k (South, assistant prof., clinician w. some research)***

*Also had an opportunities for a private practice, so $$ for the right niche.
**Also had opportunities for productivity bonuses for additional assessment work.
***Non-compete for primary clinical services like therapy & neuropsych evals.

 

[irish80122]

A lot of public institutions either have to post their salary information (my grad institution did this, so you could see what anyone made) or have to post their salary ranges (my current institution does this). Thus, this information is out there and available.

Speaking just of psychology departments, there is quite a range based upon school, location, and whether or not the program has a masters or doctoral program. I would say the medians I have seen are 50-60k for assistant professors, 70-80k for associate, and 90 - 110k for full professors. Again though, it varies. You may be better off searching to see if a school you are interested in posts their salary data. There is a wide range, even within public schools in the same state!

 

[Pragma]

A lot of public institutions either have to post their salary information (my grad institution did this, so you could see what anyone made) or have to post their salary ranges (my current institution does this). Thus, this information is out there and available.

Speaking just of psychology departments, there is quite a range based upon school, location, and whether or not the program has a masters or doctoral program. I would say the medians I have seen are 50-60k for assistant professors, 70-80k for associate, and 90 - 110k for full professors. Again though, it varies. You may be better off searching to see if a school you are interested in posts their salary data. There is a wide range, even within public schools in the same state!

There is a lot of variability for academic jobs depending on what type of school it is. I encountered a range of salaries from 45K to 70K as an entry level assistant professor. Keep in mind, that's a 9 month contract - often you can teach in the summertime or do other work for additional income. Or you can go swimming.

You can make more money in a more clinical position, but you often will have less protected time to engage in academic work, and generally jobs like this are not tenure-track (meaning you could eventually be cut out of the budget as you are on an annual contract). At my current postdoc AMC, I could have gotten a larger yearly salary staying on in a clinical position (70-80K as assistant prof), but I wouldn't have had the summers off and doing research/teaching is not emphasized much at all. That will vary from AMC to AMC, but I don't enjoy clinical work enough to have nearly 100% of my time devoted to patient care. Unless you get a primarily research-oriented job, the trend seems to be an emphasis on billable hours/clinical productivity. I prefer teaching and research. AAUP puts out data breaking down these salaries by region, type of institution, etc.

If anyone was wondering, getting a grant isn't going to get you paid more. They just buy out a portion of your time from the institution and pay part of your salary. But getting grants will help you get promoted!

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Good idea Irish.

I should clarify...all of the info I posted were for faculty positions within medical schools, which tend to pay much better than a traditional psychology dept. There can also be quite a range for "startup" packages if the position has a dedicated research component. I honestly don't know much about that side of things, so I'll defer to JS or maybe Pragma for that. Added: I am picking up some info on it bc I may need to negotiate for a small amount of seed funding.

Ps. Grants will also make you MUCH more attractive to universities bc you are costing them less money and have shown them you can secure at least some external funding.

 

[psyman]

A lot of public institutions either have to post their salary information (my grad institution did this, so you could see what anyone made) or have to post their salary ranges (my current institution does this). Thus, this information is out there and available.

Speaking just of psychology departments, there is quite a range based upon school, location, and whether or not the program has a masters or doctoral program. I would say the medians I have seen are 50-60k for assistant professors, 70-80k for associate, and 90 - 110k for full professors. Again though, it varies. You may be better off searching to see if a school you are interested in posts their salary data. There is a wide range, even within public schools in the same state!

I'm not only referring university-based work, but all work a psychologist may do (clinical, research, testing, evals, etc). Obviously, most of that data is nowhere to be found as employers don't go around posting salary information (AND people don't discuss it either, hence, this thread).

 

[Pragma]

There is more than you would think. I used publicly available salary data for institutions in my region in my own contract negotiations.

Edit: To clarify, the 45-70 range I noted was for regular University jobs (not medical school).

The "clinical" positions I referred to are in medical schools, as you get a faculty designation but essentially are a clinician in a lot of these jobs.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

There is a lot of variability for academic jobs depending on what type of school it is. I encountered a range of salaries from 45K to 70K as an entry level assistant professor. Keep in mind, that's a 9 month contract - often you can teach in the summertime or do other work for additional income. Or you can go swimming.

You can make more money in a more clinical position, but you often will have less protected time to engage in academic work, and generally jobs like this are not tenure-track (meaning you could eventually be cut out of the budget as you are on an annual contract). At my current postdoc AMC, I could have gotten a larger yearly salary staying on in a clinical position (70-80K as assistant prof), but I wouldn't have had the summers off and doing research/teaching is not emphasized much at all. That will vary from AMC to AMC, but I don't enjoy clinical work enough to have nearly 100% of my time devoted to patient care. Unless you get a primarily research-oriented job, the trend seems to be an emphasis on billable hours/clinical productivity. I prefer teaching and research. AAUP puts out data breaking down these salaries by region, type of institution, etc.

If anyone was wondering, getting a grant isn't going to get you paid more. They just buy out a portion of your time from the institution and pay part of your salary. But getting grants will help you get promoted!

That's definitely the way it is at the AMC in my internship consortium. From my understanding, unless it's a research-specific position, everyone comes in as fully clinical, but are able to buy out portions of their time (up to a pre-determined max) via grants. Even then, it seems as though the department heads in Neurology and PM&R basically just tack a lot of the research duties (for large multi-center studies--TBI model systems, etc.) on top of their clinical load. Then again, that's probably how they got to be department heads. I believe starting salary at this AMC is in the $60-65k range.

 

[Pragma]

That's definitely the way it is at the AMC in my internship consortium. From my understanding, unless it's a research-specific position, everyone comes in as fully clinical, but are able to buy out portions of their time (up to a pre-determined max) via grants. Even then, it seems as though the department heads in Neurology and PM&R basically just tack a lot of the research duties (for large multi-center studies--TBI model systems, etc.) on top of their clinical load. Then again, that's probably how they got to be department heads. I believe starting salary at this AMC is in the $60-65k range.

Yeah, not all medical schools are created equally. There is generally a research expectation at the one I am at, but it is so minimal. Most faculty where I am at do occasional conferences and workshops, maybe some posters and occasional pubs about their own patients. Case studies seem popular. None of them have their own grants or actively write them, because they are all basically clinicians and seem to identify that way. They occasionally do grand rounds or lecture to medical students.

I found that environment to be underwhelming. I know it isn't like that in all AMCs, but I do think that the nature of the research is different than what some people (e.g., me) want. Huge multicenter clinical trials don't really interest me. I can live without doing neuroimaging research. I find the case studies and the style of academic writing I have encountered through medical schools to be overly descriptive and lacking in creativity. Unless they are MD/PhD types, the people you run into don't have much knowledge about statistics, etc. A lot of the funding comes from pharma. For people that are dedicated to research, they often have little job security because their salary comes from soft money.

If you like clinical work in an AMC, you can make more money in terms of salary. But you will likely have to deal with some of the above factors. I am sure that you can work more and get grants and have a little more say in the research if you want to, but I get the sense that you have to work longer and harder to make that happen. I would rather facilitate my own grants, and have mechanisms in place that allow me to maintain reasonably nice QOL while being a productive scholar. The nature of my research does not limit me to working within a hospital setting. Overall, I find the slightly lower salary at a regular University to be perfectly acceptable, given the overall better fit, variety, and the summers off. I'll probably end up making the same $ as I would have at the AMC if I teach during the summer or maintain a part time private practice.

 

[erg923]

I have a mixed academic and clinical career (2 different jobs, as is very common for psychologists), although the academic portion is quite part time at this point and pretty clinically focused (supervision groups, teaching clinically geared courses). I can pm you my total income, as I think its pretty standard. Doesn't suck, but not in the 6 figures yet either. I am just coming off internship though, so can't really expect it to be there anyway...

 

[Pragma]

I think there is a lot of variability in responsibility. I am supported by Va, foundation, and clinical funds. At the va, compared to clinicians, I make about the same, right now for the portion of my job, but I have no job security. On the university side, In my amc, because I am tenure track, I have some job security but not much. The bottom line for me is transitioning from the k level to ro1. My job in its current configuration will always be mostly heavy on the research requirements. I work 4 days a week in research and one in clinic. I supervise students in research activites and present at some educational workshops but no semester long classes. Research expectation is very high to be tenure line at my amc and at the va to make career scientist. The more typical amc job is clinically driven with buyouts for research. They are basically classified as clinicians first.

I'd imagine a K award provides some early stability and sets you up well for getting an R01. But what happens if funding does not hit initially and there is a lag? Do they kick you out? Do they keep you around anticipating that you will get more funding soon? What proportion of your salary do they expect you to get covered through soft money?

 

[psyman]

Anybody have income data for private practice? Thanks for the feedback so far everyone.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

The trick with private practice is to work for yourself and not someone else. Unfortunately, early in your career it can be hard to build an adequate caseload without the support of the practice. I am working for a practice and after they take their cut i get about $30-$40 before taxes per client hour (about what the lady who does my nails makes). It is a rough way to earn a living. You don't get paid for vacations, sick time, or paperwork. No health insurance either. I feel like I have to work very hard to barely make ends meet.

I'm going to transition to my own practice eventually, but I feel like I need to make a name for myself in this town before that can be successful. I also need to save up some money for start up fees and as a cushion for the first months (years?) when the caseload is thin. The catch is that it has been hard to save any money with this reimbursement rate.

All I can say is, thank goodness that I went to a funded program and don't have loans!

I'm told that eventually you can earn good money in private practice, particularly if you operate a cash-only (no insurance accepted) practice. I look forward to finding out if I don't completely burn out before then!

Dr. E

 

[edieb]

I work at the v.a. In a city of about a million people and 2 years out I make 82k. If I were to stay in the govt, I would hit six figures in 13 years n although that may look good, think about what other healthcare professions spend 11 years in school (and out of the workforce) and compare psychology to them. Even masters level nps make more than a psychologist in the v.a LCSWs, earn about 9000 less than me and can do everything I can do with my phd except test which isn't even utilized at my v.a. additinally, with the recent news that lpcs will be hired, i am certain fewer positions will be allocated to psychologists I am about to receive my post doctoral masters in psychpharmacology from nmsu and am hearing 180k is starting pay for a prescribing psychologist. If I didn't have the option to prescribe, I would have never become a licensed phd

If you are wanting to do clinical care such as testing, assessment or psychotherapy, I would say don't. Naive people like me start out idealistic about the field bc we really want to provide quality mh care that is evidenced based. However, you need to realize that once you finish school you will not want to steep yourself in psychiatric illness all day and night. You will want To be able to save for retirement, buy a house, have family time, et cetera and 82 k will only be enough to do this comfortably if you live v frugally. The trajectory for psychological reimbursement has been downward for at least a decade and it's not going to get better.

 

[psyman]

I imagine this is going to vary even more widely. Depends on how much you charge (and whether you're on insurance panels), location, ability to fill a practice, and overhead costs.

...which is why I thought this thread would be helpful for people to discuss such aspects of private practice. I don't think "it varies" is too informative. That is the answer I've gotten to date though.

The trick with private practice is to work for yourself and not someone else. Unfortunately, early in your career it can be hard to build an adequate caseload without the support of the practice. I am working for a practice and after they take their cut i get about $30-$40 before taxes per client hour (about what the lady who does my nails makes). It is a rough way to earn a living. You don't get paid for vacations, sick time, or paperwork. No health insurance either. I feel like I have to work very hard to barely make ends meet.

I'm going to transition to my own practice eventually, but I feel like I need to make a name for myself in this town before that can be successful. I also need to save up some money for start up fees and as a cushion for the first months (years?) when the caseload is thin. The catch is that it has been hard to save any money with this reimbursement rate.

All I can say is, thank goodness that I went to a funded program and don't have loans!

I'm told that eventually you can earn good money in private practice, particularly if you operate a cash-only (no insurance accepted) practice. I look forward to finding out if I don't completely burn out before then!

Dr. E

I think there is something to be said for working for yourself. No boss I could have will ever be as concerned about my happiness at my job, my workload, or my financial goals as I will.

I work at the v.a. In a city of about a million people and 2 years out I make 82k. If I were to stay in the govt, I would hit six figures in 13 years n although that may look good, think about what other healthcare professions spend 11 years in school (and out of the workforce) and compare psychology to them. Even masters level nps make more than a psychologist in the v.a LCSWs, earn about 9000 less than me and can do everything I can do with my phd except test which isn't even utilized at my v.a. additinally, with the recent news that lpcs will be hired, i am certain fewer positions will be allocated to psychologists I am about to receive my post doctoral masters in psychpharmacology from nmsu and am hearing 180k is starting pay for a prescribing psychologist. If I didn't have the option to prescribe, I would have never become a licensed phd

If you are wanting to do clinical care such as testing, assessment or psychotherapy, I would say don't. Naive people like me start out idealistic about the field bc we really want to provide quality mh care that is evidenced based. However, you need to realize that once you finish school you will not want to steep yourself in psychiatric illness all day and night. You will want To be able to save for retirement, buy a house, have family time, et cetera and 82 k will only be enough to do this comfortably if you live v frugally. The trajectory for psychological reimbursement has been downward for at least a decade and it's not going to get better.

Wow, $82k would require frugal living for you? I think we have very different lifestyles!

 

[perhaps11]

A PsyD that I worked for before getting accepted to grad school this past year was making 60k a year in a relatively new private practice after being hired by a veteran psychologist right after getting their license. It is only the two of them and a few doctoral interns and one masters level clinician in the Midwest. I know this because I was in charge o payroll.

 

[edieb]

Read again: I said if I had a family! 82k would allow allow me to live frugally. The crux of my post: you want to be a clinician who doesn't prescribe, get your lcsw

 

[paramour]

I've lived "comfortably," i.e., not frugally on less than $82k... with a family, house, etc. But to each his/her own.

Seems like this (^^) conversation comes up every few months...


As far as the topic is concerned, I only know what the folks at the current university earn (due to that lovely public release info). I've not checked it since it last made the rounds a few years ago, but the profs in our dept ranged from ~$85k to $150k/year then and I know there have been a few pay increases (even though everyone complains we're broke as frak).

 

[Pragma]

It really depends on your expectations and the cost of living. I expected to make 60 to 70k after graduating, and while I accomplished that, it was harder than it I think it should have been.

I wouldn't be able to support an entire family on that salary where I live. But who lives in a single earner household anymore these days? You have to make a lot, or live somewhere inexpensive, in order for that to work.

 

[erg923]

...which is why I thought this thread would be helpful for people to discuss such aspects of private practice. I don't think "it varies" is too informative. That is the answer I've gotten to date though.

Because thats the answer. If you want a different one, narrow your question accordingly. People are not gonna wanna map out the salaries or earning potentials for all the different types of PP set ups. You do that, and we will answer.

Are you the sole partner/owner? Do you have associates? Or are you an associate in a group practice? How long have you bee around? Rural or urban? What area of the country? Insurance based or contract work..or both? If you take insurance, how much time and resounces do you put into fighting denials? Do you have support staff and scheduling staff? How much do you work? Most importantly, what are you DOING in said practice?

I would cation you that only doing PP is NOT really the ideal gig for psychologists anymore unless you join an already well-established machine of a practice...or have the ability and connections to build your own machine.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

I would cation you that only doing PP is NOT really the ideal gig for psychologists anymore unless you join an already well-established machine of a practice...or have the ability and connections to build your own machine.

erg923 is spot on about being cautious, as PP can be a very competitive place, and it will only get worse as our healthcare system changes. It can work for some people, but it requires being in a good spot for it (supply v. demand) and having some business sense (knowing how to run a small business and navigate the ridiculous paperwork associated with PP work).

 

[busybusybusy]

I know a private practice psychologist that takes home $120,000/year. Granted, this is in NYC, so that won't go as far as it would elsewhere. He also does forensic assessments on the side, so there's extra money in that.

 

[Pragma]

erg923 is spot on about being cautious, as PP can be a very competitive place, and it will only get worse as our healthcare system changes. It can work for some people, but it requires being in a good spot for it (supply v. demand) and having some business sense (knowing how to run a small business and navigate the ridiculous paperwork associated with PP work).

This has been my understanding as well. As I have mentioned before, I am not sure where people find all of these clients who can pay cash for services, but it seems that those who are most financially successful in PP are the ones who do not take insurance.

 

[BlackSkirtTetra]

you want to be a clinician who doesn't prescribe, get your lcsw

Could you clarify why you say this? I think I know the reason, but I'd rather not assume...

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

This has been my understanding as well. As I have mentioned before, I am not sure where people find all of these clients who can pay cash for services, but it seems that those who are most financially successful in PP are the ones who do not take insurance.

I considered relocating to a state that only had enough neuropsychologists within the largest cities, while the mid-sized cities and smaller communities were vastly underserved. I spoke with a medical director in one of the mid-sized cities and he had exactly *one* neuropsychologist he could refer to within 300+ miles, and she had a 6-8mon waiting list. I didn't end up being a fit for the position at his facility, but I was still very tempted to relocate there and open up a 1%'er boutique practice. With a full-time psychtech I could have easily cleared $200k-$250k+/yr between the low real estate cost and captive audience willing to pay a premium price out of pocket, but I decided to stay in academic medicine because it was a bit more intellectually stimulating.

Being in the top earning %-tiles definitely takes a number of things falling in your favor (Demand >> Supply, having a demographic with the means to pay, etc). This is much harder to do with talk therapy, but doable in the right niche. Former colleagues of mine charge $200/hr for 40-45 minutes in their boutique therapy practice. They are very well respected eating disorder specialists who practice in a wealthy town/city, so their overhead is significant higher than average, but they both do quite well at the end of the day.

Edited to add: It is worth noting...the kind of practices I referenced *are* niche practices and they are not for the middle 50% of clinicians, and a "generalist" will most likely not have the same opportunities as someone who specializes in a particular area. Everyone mentioned completed an APA-acred. program & internship, and then went on to complete a formal post-doc or fellowship in their area of practice.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

Another challege in private practice that people often over-look is the lack of opportunity for advancement. Insurance companies pay the new graduate and the seasoned professional exactly the same amount. Additionally, insurance reimbursement rates haven't gone up for years, in fact they sometimes go down. Cost of living continues to rise.

One way for advancement is to start a group practice where you can have people under you and you can take a cut of the money that they earn. The guy who owns my practice makes a fortune. It takes a "special" type of person to do this sort of thing though.

This is a huge benefit working for someplace like the VA. You can get more money for more experience (not to mention vacation, sick days, medical insurance, retirement, and all those other things unavailable to us in PP).

Dr. E

 

[erg923]

Another challege in private practice that people often over-look is the lack of opportunity for advancement. Insurance companies pay the new graduate and the seasoned professional exactly the same amount. Additionally, insurance reimbursement rates haven't gone up for years, in fact they sometimes go down. Cost of living continues to rise.

One way for advancement is to start a group practice where you can have people under you and you can take a cut of the money that they earn. The guy who owns my practice makes a fortune. It takes a "special" type of person to do this sort of thing though.

This is a huge benefit working for someplace like the VA. You can get more money for more experience (not to mention vacation, sick days, medical insurance, retirement, and all those other things unavailable to us in PP).
Dr. E

You went to a reputable Ph.D program. Why are you sticking around that PP? VA or even local hospitals and rehab centers would pay you better. You could prob do some clinically oriented academic work for a local college too.

 

[erg923]

I will also add that I considered PP work multiple times this year and actually interviewed with two well oiled machines. While being able to sit at home on your couch and dictate reports while watching the Today show is appealing, I simply dont like clinical work enough to have my income totally dependent upon it day in and day out (ie., productivity). Plus, I have the flexible schedule with my current blend of nontraditional staff psych work and faculty responsibilities. I think this is something important for the OP to think about...

 

[Doctor Eliza]

.erg---

I have some apps out to the local VA and Children's Hospital. I do need out of my current PP because it is a very bad arrangement for me. I always had a romantic notion of PP...set your own hours, you don't have a boss to answer to, you don't have someone breathing down your neck about productivity. Truth is, you make a lot of sacrifices to work in PP. At some points in your life such sacrifices make sense. At other points they don't.

One of the problems I have run into is that I do not have a "useful" specialty. The VA wants neuropsychologists, substance abuse specialists, and PTSD experts. The only job postings at the Children's Hospital over the last 3 years have been for autism specialists. My skills are pretty general. I had a child family concentration and see kids and couples (which has opened a few doors for me) in addition to individual adults. I do some psycho-educational assessment, but I don't have experience in true neuropsych assessment. My dissertation was on feminism…how many advertisements do you see looking for psychologists who specialize in feminism? J

So my major advice to grad students who want to practice: think about a marketable specialty.

My final obstacle is that I just got married, so that limits my ability to relocate for my career (but now I have health insurance!) I definitely agree that there must be something better out there than the set up I have now. It is just going to take some work to find it.

Dr. E

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Dr. E, you should poke around other PPs in the area and see if there are any opportunities to cover/refer out cases. If you do kids & couples, I know those are two areas that some Adult Only therapists will gladly refer out. Maybe you could get the word out and see if anything pops up. You'd need to sub-let space, but depending on your town, this may or may not be a big obstacle.

 

[eudaimonPsyD]

The last two psychologists I have worked for seems to be rather above the average in terms of psychologist earnings.

I worked for a PsyD who was the owner/director of a private IOP program. They maintained a small private practice (charging much more than the average psychologist fees in this area) and had a wait-list months long. They also happened to do some consulting/media work for a popular television show, which not only brought in extra cash but allowed them to charge top dollar for their services because of the reputation. They were probably taking home close to 250k/year. Going along with this however, they were working pretty much everyday, sometimes up to 10 hours a day, and would fly around the country for these television events, eating up much of their weekends and leaving little time for life outside of work.

The second PsyD I worked for maintained a private practice specializing in assessment and developmental disorders. Prior to this practice, they had a run a larger practice in Los Angeles, reportedly work "2 million" (they reported this to us consistently, not really sure the point they were trying to make). This person also had one post doc and graduate student interns that completed a bulk of the test administration and report writing, and were not actually in the office very often. They reported that take-home was about 20k/month.

I'm sure some of these numbers have been inflated (especially the second one, considering they were telling us their take-home pay while trying to sell their practice), but it seems that at least in this geographical area, there is still money to be made.

 

[Sanman]

.erg---

I have some apps out to the local VA and Children's Hospital. I do need out of my current PP because it is a very bad arrangement for me. I always had a romantic notion of PP...set your own hours, you don't have a boss to answer to, you don't have someone breathing down your neck about productivity. Truth is, you make a lot of sacrifices to work in PP. At some points in your life such sacrifices make sense. At other points they don't.

There are definitely downsides to private practice , but overall I am enjoying my work at my pp. Additionally, my practice director is a very nice guy and a great mentor. This is stark contrast to my other job that is all business and proper care for patients is considered as the least important thing in the mix. I just get hammered about medicare/medicaid requirements and making sure that billing is done properly so that we can all get reimbursed. No one really cares if you are taking proper care of the patient. At the end of the day, those who are most idealistic stand to have the largest disappointment. At the end of the day, business people will always be at odds with those that are interested in idealistic caretakers.


On a side note, I noticed that many child and family specialists really struggle either with low paying gigs or being forced to take jobs outside of their chosen area of expertise.

 

[beantownpsych]

From what I have heard/seen in the northeast:

assistant prof at R1 ~ 75-80K
associate prof at R1 ~ 90-110K
full prof at R1- 120-300K (but generally 120-175K, upper bound depends solely on grant funding including industry grants, royalties etc)

assistant prof at R2 ~ 60-65K
associate prof at R2 ~ 70-85K
full prof at R2 ~ 90-100K

assistant prof SLAC 65K (note this is in an area w/ high cost of living)

assistant prof (research) academic medical center 75-110K
associate prof (research) academic medical center -- ??
full prof (research) academic medical center 170-250K (although I definitely know people whose salaries are rumored at 350-400K, although keep in mind these are very well-known/established researchers, most have MD's or are MD/Phds)

assistant prof (clinical) academic medical center 60-80K
sorry don't know about the other ranks...


midwest:

assistant prof at R2 ~ 55K
full-time therapist in specialty tx center ~ 65K (no overhead)

south:

assistant prof (not sure if it's considered an R1 or R2 off the top of my head) ~ 65K

 

[priorities2]

Some states post all govt employee salary information online. So if you know of specific profs at a state school, you might be able to look up their salary info. I've done this to the profs at my school and the highest salary I saw was 445k. I don't know if all his salary was all from psych teaching, or if it largely came from research grants or what.. I can only speculate. But I also saw an assistant professor in the human devt dept making 45k. It really seems to vary!

 

[psyman]

Because thats the answer. If you want a different one, narrow your question accordingly. People are not gonna wanna map out the salaries or earning potentials for all the different types of PP set ups. You do that, and we will answer.

Are you the sole partner/owner? Do you have associates? Or are you an associate in a group practice? How long have you bee around? Rural or urban? What area of the country? Insurance based or contract work..or both? If you take insurance, how much time and resounces do you put into fighting denials? Do you have support staff and scheduling staff? How much do you work? Most importantly, what are you DOING in said practice?

I would cation you that only doing PP is NOT really the ideal gig for psychologists anymore unless you join an already well-established machine of a practice...or have the ability and connections to build your own machine.

I know it varies, the purpose of asking is so people could discuss the factors which impact income from personal experience. Thanks for all the feedback so far. I imagine I'm not the only one who appreciates it.

Can anyone speak to the hours which are kept in private practice? Meaning, having to keep office hours on the evenings or weekends? I imagine that varies according to the specialty.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I know it varies, the purpose of asking is so people could discuss the factors which impact income from personal experience. Thanks for all the feedback so far. I imagine I'm not the only one who appreciates it.

Can anyone speak to the hours which are kept in private practice? Meaning, having to keep office hours on the evenings or weekends? I imagine that varies according to the specialty.

I can't speak to it directly, but I'd imagine that particularly if a large portion of your practice was therapy-based, having off-hours availability (e.g., half a day on Saturday, early morning or evenings after 5p) could help quite a bit in securing clients who work full-time.

My own advisor conducted all of his private practice work during normal business hours. The exception was exception forensic cases, for which he would do spurts of weekend and after-hours work. One case in particular ate up most of his weekends for probably two and a half months, but also paid quite well.

 

[erg923]

I know it varies, the purpose of asking is so people could discuss the factors which impact income from personal experience. Thanks for all the feedback so far. I imagine I'm not the only one who appreciates it.

Can anyone speak to the hours which are kept in private practice? Meaning, having to keep office hours on the evenings or weekends? I imagine that varies according to the specialty.

Office hours VARY. But, certainly, evening hours will be common at many places at least once a week or so.

Many group PPs could essentially have you as an ind. contractor, thus you could work 3 days a week if you want or you can be there 7-7 six days a week for all they care. You're your own business essentially...so no one cares.

As I said, I met with 2 and one was very family friendly, everyone leaves by 4 or 5. No weekends. The other bluntly said the productivity he requires for his associates essentially requires at least 50 hours per week. You can write those reports at the beach if you want though...so the actual time in the office is only needed for seeing the patients and could be as low as 30 hours a week.

Again, I interviewed with these places because they promised to be lucrative. And they could be. But of course, no health insurance, no retirement, no pension, no vacation really sucks the wind out of the sails for me. Plus, every other place, I get paid whether my patient shows or not. Again, having my income totally dependent on other people's commitment to the process made my stomach turn. Plus, just because I'm a clinically oriented person doesn't mean I want to actually be seeing patients everyday. I would probably find that annoying after a short while. I think that takes a special type of person...

 

[Sanman]

As far as all clinical positions are concerned, I know of at least one place that that will offer me a position in the 70-75k range with benefits for full-time work. However, they are very businesslike and you have daily patient quotas you need to meet for that to happen (something like 8 patients a day) . You need to make sure that the are getting enough referrals to hit that quota and that a patient does not decline services. There is definite pressure there and I am not sure how many the people there are. Most are only a few years out and it is a good salary though.

As for private practice, there is definitely a range of practice styles as Erg mentions. Some are very business-like and others could care less how much you work as you are a contractor and they get a percentage. However, at least the practices I am in, many people work the evening hours, 12-8 pm or 1-9 pm as evenings are often when most people want to be seen. So, there is a bit of competition for office space. When too many people are doing well enough to really need the space, we expand. There is always uncertainty though as there will be dry periods in any private practice.

 

[ClinicalABA]

If anyone would be so daring, kindly post the salary and position of a job you know exists or has existed.

I wouldn't call it "daring", but here's the info on me and my current jobs/salary (being I work for a non-profit and a state university, the information is publicly available anyways).

Bio info:
Clinical Ph.D. in 2000 from Flagship State University
Licensed Clinical Psychologist in 2006
Board Certified Behavior Analyst- Doctoral Level in 2011
42 years old, married with two kids (11yo and 9yo)

Current Job/Salary/Benefits info:
Primary Job- Oversee clinical services for a private not-for-profit human services agency supporting adults with developmental and severe psychiatric disorders in community based residential and day programs (state funded contracts). I oversee a team of 3 masters level clinicians (2 BCBAs and 1 LMHC), providing clinical and administrative supervision. My clinical responsibilities are largely system level (QA/QI, risk management, program development and eval), but I do spend a lot of time working with the other clinicians on individual patient crisis situations, and will occasionally work directly with a client for an eval. I do a lot of staff training. I average probably 45 hours/week
Salary= $106,000
Benefits= 30 paid vacation days, 7 paid personal days, 11 paid holiday
Company pays 80% of family medical/dental insurance
Company pays for CEU training for both my licensure and certification
Cell phone/data plan stipend
In good years, company matches % of 401K contributions (unfortunately, there
are very few good years!)
Malpractice insurance under agency policy

Secondary Job - Adjunct Assistant Professor in graduate program at a state university. I teach generally one semester per year, one evening per week, averaging about 8-10 hours per week.
Salary= $3700 per semester
Benefits= Access to online databases (e.g. PSYCHINFO); personal and professional networking.

My average commute is ~30 minutes. I have a secondary office that I go to about 4x per month,where the commute is about an hour.

I live in the Northeastern US, where the cost of living is relatively high (though I'm outside some of the really expensive metro areas).

My major monthly expenditures are mortgage (~1300/month) and student loans (~$400 per month). I pay about $500 every two years to renew my licensure/certification.

My wife is able to work per diem as a physical therapy assistant, contributing $10-20k per year in salary, but also saving us about the same in child care/summer camp expenses. Our lifestyle appears modest (simple house, older vehicles), but we are able to have fun and don't argue about finances (not the case 2 years ago when my mortgage was $2300).

Last summer/fall I applied for some other jobs. I was offered a more clinical position doing child evaluations and direct behavioral therapy for an outpatient clinic, with a salary of $52K. I was also offered a position as a psychologist with a state agency (responsibilities and salary similar to my current job, with much less time off, but better insurance and retirement).

Hope that helps!

 

[ClinicalABA]

... But of course, no health insurance, no retirement, no pension, no vacation really sucks the wind out of the sails for me...

This stuff is huge- my company pays in total about 25000/year in for my health/dental insurance and cell phone/data plan. While my official hourly wage is ~$50/hr, when i add in these benefits and subtract off 48 paid days off, my rate for actual hours worked is more like $75/hr.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Health insurance/benefits is a HUGE factor if it isn't included because personal coverage tends to be very pricey for far fewer bells and whistles. I take that part somewhat for granted because all of the places I'd consider include good to very good coverage, though it is much more of a range once you get into the private market and solo practice work.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

Health insurance/benefits is a HUGE factor if it isn't included because personal coverage tends to be very pricey for far fewer bells and whistles. I take that part somewhat for granted because all of the places I'd consider include good to very good coverage, though it is much more of a range once you get into the private market and solo practice work.

That is if you can even obtain health insurance privately. Health insurance companies are very picky about who they will take on. Something as simple as being in psychotherapy for personal growth and development reasons can disqualify you from coverage.

Dr. E

 

[JeyRo]

That is if you can even obtain health insurance privately. Health insurance companies are very picky about who they will take on. Something as simple as being in psychotherapy for personal growth and development reasons can disqualify you from coverage.

Dr. E

Obama-care....! Starting in a year or two if you *don't* sign up for coverage you'll get fined....er.... taxed. Preexisting conditions won't matter either.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

Obama-care....! Starting in a year or two if you *don't* sign up for coverage you'll get fined....er.... taxed. Preexisting conditions won't matter either.

Not clear if your comment is pro or con for this legislation...? "Fined" sounds like a dig, but preexisting conditions not mattering sounds like a good thing, right?

I probably shouldn't mention it for fear of starting a riot on this topic...

Dr. E

 

[JeyRo]

Not clear if your comment is pro or con for this legislation...? "Fined" sounds like a dig, but preexisting conditions not mattering sounds like a good thing, right?

I probably shouldn't mention it for fear of starting a riot on this topic...

Dr. E

I'm most definitely against the ACA ("Obamacare") - hey, YOU MENTIONED IT!

Re. the comment about "tax" versus "fine," or "penalty" Obama himself denied that the government demand of money from people who refuse to do business with health insurance companies was a "tax" (source: http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2012/07/06/3367352/individual-mandate-tax-penalty.html) - whereas the Supreme Court declared it was indeed a tax, sort of.

I think that the ACA is just an underhanded nationalization of the healthcare industry. Before Nixon established rules for insurance policies, and before the government got their grubby little hands in the industry, it worked fairly well.

I'm sympathetic to the problem posed by people who have preexisting conditions getting locked out of private "insurance" (at least, pre-ACA) - but that's simply a response to pricing concerns. When someone asks me "is it fair for an insurance company to deny someone medical coverage for their asthma just because they have asthma" - that's like asking "is it fair for an insurance company to deny someone tornado coverage for their home after they've had a tornado destroy their home"? That's not insurance, that's socialization of costs. Same way when we expect that "insurance" pays for colonoscopies for everyone who's 50 years of age - that's not an insurable event either, that's just socialization of costs.

Pretty good reflection of my view on the state of medical "insurance" in this day and age:

http://mises.org/daily/5496/

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Hopefully we can keep this discussion on salary, as it rarely is talked about in such frank terms (TY to the OP for bringing this up). However, i do want to encourage those interested in talking about the shortcomings and associated dangers of Obamacare to visit the political forum in The Lounge. People who support OC are also invited...i guess. Fair warning, it is a bit more lively in there.

 

[JeyRo]

Hopefully we can keep this discussion on salary, as it rarely is talked about in such frank terms (TY to the OP for bringing this up). However, i do want to encourage those interested in talking about the shortcomings and associated dangers of Obamacare to visit the political forum in The Lounge. People who support OC are also invited...i guess. Fair warning, it is a bit more lively in there.

I took the bait, my apologies. I'm going to repost what I wrote over there.

 

[Pragma]

I was going to say..."here we go..."

 

[psycecream]

Offers for Pre-licensed post-postdoc Clinical Psych PhD from a "brand name" university last year:

Comprehensive state university in small city in texas tenure track job, teaching in master's/PhD program: $56k (super low cost of living, I could have lived like a king), 9 month contract

Small private university, teaching in PsyD/MA programs, in Southern California: 62k, 9 month contract

Small liberal arts college in small city in pacific northwest, teaching in master's and undergrad: 51k, 9 month contract

Full time therapy working for large HMO in the bay area: 85, 100k post license, 12 month contract

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Offers for Pre-licensed post-postdoc Clinical Psych PhD from a "brand name" university last year:

Comprehensive state university in small city in texas tenure track job, teaching in master's/PhD program: $56k (super low cost of living, I could have lived like a king), 9 month contract

Small private university, teaching in PsyD/MA programs, in Southern California: 62k, 9 month contract

Small liberal arts college in small city in pacific northwest, teaching in master's and undergrad: 51k, 9 month contract

Full time therapy working for large HMO in the bay area: 85, 100k post license, 12 month contract

Did the academic positions also offer any boosts or other incentives for licensure other than it just being expected and allowing you to keep your job? I know there are others here in academic positions (e.g., Pragma, erg), so feel free to reply as well regarding your employers.