Will medical school ever get less oversaturated with applicants?

[studentp0x]

Not every medical student in Canada wants to be a neurosurgon or orthopaedic surgeon?

There's been talks of difficulties finding hospitalist jobs/IM jobs, jobs for any procedure based specialty (ex. GI) and so on. Many of the available jobs out there are in much less desirable places. The issue then becomes that when you go rural/go to a smaller town or city... you no longer have the available population to support many subspecialties. Come back to the cities, and there's either saturation and major competition for any potential opening... Or there's super saturation (in Toronto for example) and you have next to no chance of landing a full time position.

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[487806]

Part of the reason DNP/NP/PA's are becoming more popular is because there is a dire need for these medical practitioners to fill the gap of care. In the end there is still a current and projected physician shortage, primary reason being because entrance into the medical profession is so incredibly competitive at the medical school stage. Physicians are increasingly becoming the hub of which a team of other medical professionals work together in. Because the competition is so front loaded in the medical school application phase, physicians will continue be in commodity due to the mismatch between the supply and demand of top level care providers. Competition into medical school will likely continue to be stiff, recession or not.

Wait, is there a physician shortage? Or a physician maldistribution? Or both?

From the AAMC graph that I think @sinombre provided a while ago, the competition is cyclical, and with other markets opening and economic recovery, it should fall soon. I don't know. I could be wrong since I really don't know much about the physician dynamics, but still surprised it can retroactively affect the stage at the med school entry level

 

[darkjedi]

Wait, is there a physician shortage? Or a physician maldistribution? Or both?

From the AAMC graph that I think @sinombre provided a while ago, the competition is cyclical, and with other markets opening and economic recovery, it should fall soon. I don't know. I could be wrong since I really don't know much about the physician dynamics, but still surprised it can retroactively affect the stage at the med school entry level

It is indeed both. Much of the shortage we face is in the primary care field, and again why mid-level practioners like NPs and PAs are in high demand in order to fill that gap.

Competition does vary from year to year, and with the economy, but not by an enormous amount. There are still way more applicants than seats available. Since the number of medical school seats does not respond to market pressures of demand, but rather by the AAMC and the LCME, a bottleneck quickly builds up at the medical school application stage.

 

[487806]

It is indeed both. Much of the shortage we face is in the primary care field, and again why mid-level practioners like NPs and PAs are in high demand in order to fill that gap.

Competition does vary from year to year, and with the economy, but not by an enormous amount. There are still way more applicants than seats available. Since the number of medical school seats does not respond to market pressures of demand, but rather by the AAMC and the LCME, a bottleneck quickly builds up at the medical school application stage.

Wait, the problem here isn't the limited seats mandated by AAMC/LCME. The problem is the increased demand to fill that seats, and I'm not sure what other factors other than the economy/job security contribute to this demand.

 

[darkjedi]

Wait, the problem here isn't the limited seats mandated by AAMC/LCME. The problem is the increased demand to fill that seats, and I'm not sure what other factors other than the economy/job security contribute to this demand.

I'm not sure I follow.

Demand is only a valuable metric as a function of supply, which is the number of seats available. The interaction between the two is what sets the level of competition that we see at the application level. It of course gets even more complex once you try to account for the fact that demand itself is also a function of the perceived competitiveness of medical school admissions. People are turned away all the time from even trying to apply to medical school because they know they are not competitive enough to apply at all.

 

[darklabel]

One of my favorite quotes is:

Recession is when your neighbor loses his job. Depression is when you lose yours.

(Note, edited out the Jimmy Carter part as it doesn't apply here).

There doesn't seem to be an economic recovery because a lot of us hear from our family and friends about how bad it is out there. We don't care what the news agency says or what the government is telling us based on economic data from people much smarter than us because our friends, aunt, uncle, cousin, mom, dad or whatever isn't able to get a job they want (or even at all) or their small business isn't as successful as it used to be. Attendings and residents may say how bad medicine is becoming, but at the same time I personally see people who can't even get a job in their respective field and have to settle for jobs that don't require the degree they studied for or continue to struggle to gain employment at all.

Heck, I'm thankful for the part time job I have now at a retail store. As we keep hearing about how bad it is out there, more students will continue to say "Hey, medicine seems like a good idea to have as a career" and applications will continue to stay on the higher end.

 

[geneexpression]

Side note: Does anyone else's personal experiences make it difficult to believe that the physician shortage relates mostly to primary care? Obviously my experience alone doesn't count for much. That said, in every area I've ever lived, there have been family medicine doctors all over the place. Furthermore, it has always been really easy to get in to see a family medicine doctor (or an internal medicine doctor, which is what my last primary care doctor was, although I think I'm going to hunt for another doctor because she made me really uncomfortable). I've never had to wait more than a day or two to see a primary care doctor, and I've often been able to get a same-day appointment. Meanwhile, when I needed a neurologist, I had to wait four months before I could get in to see one of the few neurologists in the area. Then, after that, I had to wait at least two months in between appointments. My experience with an ENT was about the same.

 

[DermViser]

More and more competitive because more and more people are starting to realize it's the safest and surest route to becoming a member of this country's upper class. The majority of doctors in the US today are living incredibly plush lives, and the guarantee of wealth would inspire anyone who understands that he needs to make a living after college. And wow, DermViser and WillburCobb are getting beaten down harder than rented mules in this thread!

Um, I'm missing where I'm getting "beaten down" in this specific thread. Each one of your threads demonstrates that you're an utter fool and a bad troll in which you get thoroughly, "beaten down harder than rented mules".

 

[DermViser]

It is indeed both. Much of the shortage we face is in the primary care field, and again why mid-level practioners like NPs and PAs are in high demand in order to fill that gap.

Competition does vary from year to year, and with the economy, but not by an enormous amount. There are still way more applicants than seats available. Since the number of medical school seats does not respond to market pressures of demand, but rather by the AAMC and the LCME, a bottleneck quickly builds up at the medical school application stage.

Then there is a bottleneck again at the residency stage.

 

[Mad Jack]

More and more competitive because more and more people are starting to realize it's the safest and surest route to becoming a member of this country's upper class. The majority of doctors in the US today are living incredibly plush lives, and the guarantee of wealth would inspire anyone who understands that he needs to make a living after college. And wow, DermViser and WillburCobb are getting beaten down harder than rented mules in this thread!

Anyone who has ever dealt with the real upper class would never, ever confuse physicians for being a part of it.

 

[darkjedi]

Then there is a bottleneck again at the residency stage.

Maybe for the competitive specialties, but there are many more residency slots than US MD graduates. The reason there is a small minority of US MDs that fail match is not because there aren't enough residency programs, but more likely that they have red flags or applied poorly.

 

[DermViser]

Maybe for the competitive specialties, but there are many more residency slots than US MD graduates. The reason there is a small minority of US MDs that fail match is not because there aren't enough residency programs, but more likely that they have red flags or applied poorly.

Actually, that is no longer the case esp. with DOs participating in the ACGME match.

 

[darkjedi]

Actually, that is no longer the case esp. with DOs participating in the ACGME match.

DOs have been participating in the NRMP match for a while now, so nothing that huge is changing. In the end there are still tens of thousands more residency slots than US MD graduates. Residency shortage is a bit overblown on SDN. Not that it won't be an issue many many years down the road however, but not now.

 

[DermViser]

DOs have been participating in the NRMP match for a while now, so nothing that huge is changing. In the end there are still tens of thousands more residency slots than US MD graduates.

Yes, but drastically more medical schools have popped up with a large increase in class sizes. There are many applicants who didn't have any "red flags" and applied broadly and did not match.

 

[touchpause13]

Anyone who has ever dealt with the real upper class would never, ever confuse physicians for being a part of it.

Exactly. I've tried to explain this before but it falls on deaf ears.

 

[Mad Jack]

Exactly. I've tried to explain this before but it falls on deaf ears.

If you can't afford a personal chef, maid, nanny chauffeur, country club membership, and personal yacht, you aren't a part of the upper class. They have a standard of living that makes the vast majority of physicians look like peasants in comparison.

 

[touchpause13]

Side note: Does anyone else's personal experiences make it difficult to believe that the physician shortage relates mostly to primary care? Obviously my experience alone doesn't count for much. That said, in every area I've ever lived, there have been family medicine doctors all over the place. Furthermore, it has always been really easy to get in to see a family medicine doctor (or an internal medicine doctor, which is what my last primary care doctor was, although I think I'm going to hunt for another doctor because she made me really uncomfortable). I've never had to wait more than a day or two to see a primary care doctor, and I've often been able to get a same-day appointment. Meanwhile, when I needed a neurologist, I had to wait four months before I could get in to see one of the few neurologists in the area. Then, after that, I had to wait at least two months in between appointments. My experience with an ENT was about the same.

Yeah. .. no

I lived in a rural area. The wait time for our IM doc was 3 months. and when I was in a bigger town the wait time for an OB/Gyn was 4 to 6 months. Even to see the NP was usually a 3 month deal. The rural town I was in had one OB/Gyn that would come once every two months and getting on her schedule was basically impossible so people would have to drive an hour each way to the next big town to get seen.

 

[Mad Jack]

Side note: Does anyone else's personal experiences make it difficult to believe that the physician shortage relates mostly to primary care? Obviously my experience alone doesn't count for much. That said, in every area I've ever lived, there have been family medicine doctors all over the place. Furthermore, it has always been really easy to get in to see a family medicine doctor (or an internal medicine doctor, which is what my last primary care doctor was, although I think I'm going to hunt for another doctor because she made me really uncomfortable). I've never had to wait more than a day or two to see a primary care doctor, and I've often been able to get a same-day appointment. Meanwhile, when I needed a neurologist, I had to wait four months before I could get in to see one of the few neurologists in the area. Then, after that, I had to wait at least two months in between appointments. My experience with an ENT was about the same.

You must live in California or the Northeast.

 

[Pacna]

You must live in California or the Northeast.

I live in MN and can report a similar story. I can get into my PCP tomorrow if I want.

 

[Muffinho]

I'm in Canada, and in a 2 km radius (just about 1.25 mile radius), there are 6 walk in clinics and 3 well established GPs. All of these locations, walk in and GP have more than one doctor working there.

 

[Mad Jack]

I live in MN and can report a similar story. I can get into my PCP tomorrow if I want.

Perhaps the real issue isn't access to care, it's access to people that will take Medicare/Medicaid/uninsured patients. I can get a doc easily myself, but I've got incredibly good insurance. My girlfriend, not so much. She has to look around for a while.

 

[Pacna]

Perhaps the real issue isn't access to care, it's access to people that will take Medicare/Medicaid/uninsured patients. I can get a doc easily myself, but I've got incredibly good insurance. My girlfriend, not so much. She has to look around for a while.

I'm extremely irresponsible with my $, so I don't even look for a doc in my network. That could be why it's so easy for me.

 

[studentp0x]

Anyone who has ever dealt with the real upper class would never, ever confuse physicians for being a part of it.

You can't decide what is and isn't upper class based on your job title. It's based on your income and wealth. What matters here is, at what level of income and wealth are you considered upper class? Regardless, there's definitely many doctors who would fit into the category. But yes, the average doctor would not unless they're a skilled investor/businessman.

Nonetheless, you should be perfectly happy making 300k. No you won't live in a mansion and have a different sports car for every day of the week... but you can certainly own a big house and even have an "average" ferrari/lambo/other exotic if you do everything right.

 

[rifle4802]

Anyone who has ever dealt with the real upper class would never, ever confuse physicians for being a part of it.

I've dealt with and am a part of the real upper class myself. Physicians are absolutely a part of the real upper class, the top 0.5-1% income earners of this country, and the ones I know are all stinking rich. It's a perfectly reasonable reason to pursue this field.

 

[DermViser]

Exactly. I've tried to explain this before but it falls on deaf ears.

Don't expect your typical neurotic SDN premed, who more likely than not, has never held a real full-time job to understand that your average doctor isn't in the real upper class of income earners in present day. They think doctors are living large like rappers drinking Cristal, with cars and scantily clad women.

 

[DermViser]

I've dealt with and am a part of the real upper class myself. Physicians are absolutely a part of the real upper class, the top 0.5-1% income earners of this country, and the ones I know are all stinking rich. It's a perfectly reasonable reason to pursue this field.

Yes, upper class of ignorance. You definitely fit in that 0.5%-1%.

If you use this calculator: http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/10/19/what-percent-are-you/, you'll see that your numbers are definitely off with respect to income.

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/top-1-percent-earn.aspx
Top 1% = $343,927

 

[Mad Jack]

I'm extremely irresponsible with my $, so I don't even look for a doc in my network. That could be why it's so easy for me.

I don't go in network either, so that might have something to do with it too.

 

[touchpause13]

Doctors make good money but not venture capitalist money

 

[touchpause13]

I live in MN and can report a similar story. I can get into my PCP tomorrow if I want.

Cross the border to ND and it's a whole different story

 

[Mad Jack]

I've dealt with and am a part of the real upper class myself. Physicians are absolutely a part of the real upper class, the top 0.5-1% income earners of this country, and the ones I know are all stinking rich. It's a perfectly reasonable reason to pursue this field.

The true upper class is the 0.01%, not the 1%. You can't buy a Veyron and a luxury yacht if you're just barely in the 1%, as most physicians are. You can't employ multiple people to take care of your household nor own a real mansion of the sort enjoyed by the upper class when your net worth is only a paltry 2-3 million dollars. You need to have around 30 million to crack the 0.01% barrier, which basically only inventor/physicians and CEO/physicians ever crack, and even then, rarely.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...ryone-got-the-top-1-percent-all-wrong/359862/

To give you an idea of the staggering wealth required to be truly upper class, and how far physicians are from that level, take a look at some of the hotels the real upper class spend their time in. A week in one would cost a full year of many physician's salaries. Look at the prices of luxury homes in desirable cities. Examine the costs of exotic sports cars. Those are the playgrounds and toys of the upper class. Docs are upper middle class at best.

http://travel.cnn.com/explorations/escape/worlds-15-most-expensive-hotel-suites-747256

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimhenr...ve-cars-for-2014-keeping-up-with-the-joneses/

http://www.movoto.com/beverly-hills-ca/

 

[DermViser]

If you can't afford a personal chef, maid, nanny chauffeur, country club membership, and personal yacht, you aren't a part of the upper class. They have a standard of living that makes the vast majority of physicians look like peasants in comparison.

EXACTLY. If you look at most of that class and see how they treat doctors as their personal servants, it's pretty obvious that they don't consider them on the same level. Not even close.

 

[Pacna]

Cross the border to ND and it's a whole different story

I tried. They said that they only accept in-state or people with close ties in-state. I still have the email, actually. No joke!

 

[rifle4802]

Yes, upper class of ignorance. You definitely fit in that 0.5%-1%.

If you use this calculator: http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2011/10/19/what-percent-are-you/, you'll see that your numbers are definitely off with respect to income.

http://www.bankrate.com/finance/taxes/top-1-percent-earn.aspx
Top 1% = $343,927

Nope, you are wrong. Household incomes are what matter here. Median household income, aka the middle class, is about 50K. The upper middle class hits around 100K, something that a single physician can make in his sleep working part-time, never mind a physician couple working full time hours.

And then you have the real upper class, anyone part of a very tiny minority (1% and lower) of folks raking in 250K or higher. All of these people are fabulously wealthy and are living in big houses with fancy cars. If they choose to live modestly, it's because they want to. Doesn't change the fact that they have the means to live like kings if they want to. Inventing your own facts doesn't work in the real world, Barney.

 

[487806]

I'm not sure I follow.

Demand is only a valuable metric as a function of supply, which is the number of seats available. The interaction between the two is what sets the level of competition that we see at the application level. It of course gets even more complex once you try to account for the fact that demand itself is also a function of the perceived competitiveness of medical school admissions. People are turned away all the time from even trying to apply to medical school because they know they are not competitive enough to apply at all.

I guess we're looking at different perspectives. Basically, I'm just wondering why more people are applying to med school in the first place. Is it economic problems (like job security etc.)? Or something else? Altruism is a lame (no offense: but there are cheaper, faster routes) reason to pursue medicine

 

[DermViser]

Nope, you are wrong. Household incomes are what matter here. Median household income, aka the middle class, is about 50K. The upper middle class hits around 100K, something that a single physician can make in his sleep working part-time, never mind a physician couple working full time hours.

And then you have the real upper class, anyone part of a very tiny minority (1% and lower) of folks raking in 250K or higher. All of these people are fabulously wealthy and are living in big houses with fancy cars. If they choose to live modestly, it's because they want to. Doesn't change the fact that they have the means to live like kings if they want to. Inventing your own facts doesn't work in the real world, Barney.

You have the right to your own deluded opinions, not your own facts.
http://www.kiplinger.com/article/taxes/T054-C000-S001-where-do-you-rank-as-a-taxpayer.html

• The latest numbers from the IRS—based on just released data from 2011 tax returns—show what it takes to be among the top 1% of income earners: adjusted gross income of $388,905 or more.

 

[DermViser]

I guess we're looking at different perspectives. Basically, I'm just wondering why more people are applying to med school in the first place. Is it economic problems (like job security etc.)? Or something else? Altruism is a lame (no offense: but there are cheaper, faster routes) reason to pursue medicine

So many of the other jobs that people have gotten in the past have either disappeared never to be replaced, or have been outsourced. At least with healthcare which has many of the same college science requirements --- once can pursue many fields: Dentistry, Pharmacy, Medicine, etc. It requires years of schooling which is perfect during a recession. Combine that with millenial hubris and Asian parentals, who will pursue the field no matter what the reimbursement, and you have a booming industry.

 

[487806]

So many of the other jobs that people have gotten in the past have either disappeared never to be replaced, or have been outsourced. At least with healthcare which has many of the same college science requirements --- once can pursue many fields: Dentistry, Pharmacy, Medicine, etc. It requires years of schooling which is perfect during a recession. Combine that with millenial hubris and Asian parentals, who will pursue the field no matter what the reimbursement, and you have a booming industry.

So I think I understand: recession --> crappy job market --> increased back to school/college --> long years in school are awesome (despite obtaining massive debt in student loans) --> increased competition

And because the economy is recovering, the job market is slow to respond so the competition is sustained for a while.

Now what gets me is alternative careers like NP/PA, which as @darkjedi says is popular to fill in the primary care. Shouldn't that reduce the competition for med school? Plus (and I'm naïve in this, so sorry in advance), physician reimbursements are declining, so medicine is losing its value. Is prestige really a big factor still?

 

[studentp0x]

I'm in Canada, and in a 2 km radius (just about 1.25 mile radius), there are 6 walk in clinics and 3 well established GPs. All of these locations, walk in and GP have more than one doctor working there.

Kinda the same for me. There still seems to be a lot of jobs in cities but you tend to wonder how long it'll last.

 

[Mad Jack]

All of these people are fabulously wealthy and are living in big houses with fancy cars. If they choose to live modestly, it's because they want to. Doesn't change the fact that they have the means to live like kings if they want to. Inventing your own facts doesn't work in the real world, Barney.

Income is meaningless. Wealth is what matters. If you make $250,000 but spend $300,000, and have no reserve wealth, you are poor. If you make no income, but have $10,000,000 in assets that earn $350,000 a year in returns, of which you spend $300,000, you are wealthy and growing more so despite no real income. Only the poor view wealth in terms of income- the wealthy view wealth in terms of assets and investments.

Anyway, even the top 1% of income earners aren't truly upper class, as they cannot afford to live a real upper class lifestyle. A BMW is an upper middle class car- a Rolls-Royce is an upper class one. A 4,000 square foot house in the suburbs is an upper middle class home, while an 8,000 square foot house in Beverly Hills is an upper class abode.

 

[DermViser]

So I think I understand: recession --> crappy job market --> increased back to school/college --> long years in school are awesome (despite obtaining massive debt in student loans) --> increased competition

And because the economy is recovering, the job market is slow to respond so the competition is sustained for a while.

Now what gets me is alternative careers like NP/PA, which as @darkjedi says is popular to fill in the primary care. Shouldn't that reduce the competition for med school? Plus (and I'm naïve in this, so sorry in advance), physician reimbursements are declining, so medicine is losing its value. Is prestige really a big factor still?

Most college students figure at the beginning, heck if the science requirements are the same, why not go for the one with the 6 figure salary. They don't calculate ROI, and opportunity cost.

The ones who go PA/NP are usually 1) those who were unable to make it to med school but still want to be in healthcare or 2) do not want the extensive delay in gratification that medicine entails, vs. say PA school. With the nursing route, one can immediately work when done and move up the NP per their own schedule (hence why there are even some ONLINE NP programs) and it's not just primary care but specialties too.

Most premeds are hardly people who keep up with even the basics of healthcare economics or understand how medical services are rendered and paid for. They're told by old doctor family friends and relatives how grand things are as they lived thru it. Up until recently, the govt. and third party payers have not started turning the screws with respect to clamping down on reimbursement. When Medicare first started, they paid FULL price of what the doctor billed for back in 1965. That's definitely not the case now. The first goal of Obamacare was to get everyone insured. The next step is to clamp down on reimbursements and to not pay for care that is considered too expensive or doesn' t have established outcomes, thus centralizing more medical decision making.

This is just my opinion, but the economy is hardly "recovering".

 

[studentp0x]

The true upper class is the 0.01%, not the 1%. You can't buy a Veyron and a luxury yacht if you're just barely in the 1%, as most physicians are. You can't employ multiple people to take care of your household nor own a real mansion of the sort enjoyed by the upper class when your net worth is only a paltry 2-3 million dollars. You need to have around 30 million to crack the 0.01% barrier, which basically only inventor/physicians and CEO/physicians ever crack, and even then, rarely.

http://www.theatlantic.com/business...ryone-got-the-top-1-percent-all-wrong/359862/

To give you an idea of the staggering wealth required to be truly upper class, and how far physicians are from that level, take a look at some of the hotels the real upper class spend their time in. A week in one would cost a full year of many physician's salaries. Look at the prices of luxury homes in desirable cities. Examine the costs of exotic sports cars. Those are the playgrounds and toys of the upper class. Docs are upper middle class at best.

http://travel.cnn.com/explorations/escape/worlds-15-most-expensive-hotel-suites-747256

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jimhenr...ve-cars-for-2014-keeping-up-with-the-joneses/

http://www.movoto.com/beverly-hills-ca/

That's just playing around with how you define upper class. You're being much saying that as a physician you won't be blowing up with cash. That's an obvious for sure except for a small minority of docs.

Big houses and an exotic car are definitely attainable on a physician's income if you do it right. So is going on a 5 star vacation and staying in a 5 star hotel room (not the suite ). Chances are at that point you'll be as satisfied as you can be unless you're pursuing the wolf of wall street lifestyle.

 

[touchpause13]

I tried. They said that they only accept in-state or people with close ties in-state. I still have the email, actually. No joke!

Well yeah. They want to only train docs who will stay in ND.

I could have told you not to bother lol

 

[studentp0x]

Most college students figure at the beginning, heck if the science requirements are the same, why not go for the one with the 6 figure salary. They don't calculate ROI, and opportunity cost.

The ones who go PA/NP are usually 1) those who were unable to make it to med school but still want to be in healthcare or 2) do not want the extensive delay in gratification that medicine entails, vs. say PA school. With the nursing route, one can immediately work when done and move up the NP per their own schedule (hence why there are even some ONLINE NP programs) and it's not just primary care but specialties too.

Most premeds are hardly people who keep up with even the basics of healthcare economics or understand how medical services are rendered and paid for. They're told by old doctor family friends and relatives how grand things are as they lived thru it. Up until recently, the govt. and third party payers have not started turning the screws with respect to clamping down on reimbursement. When Medicare first started, they paid FULL price of what the doctor billed for back in 1965. That's definitely not the case now. The first goal of Obamacare was to get everyone insured. The next step is to clamp down on reimbursements and to not pay for care that is considered too expensive or doesn' t have established outcomes, thus centralizing more medical decision making.

This is just my opinion, but the economy is hardly "recovering".

Anyone in this generation who goes onto becoming rich will endure a lot more than an average doctor will. That is unless they inherited most of the wealth.

 

[touchpause13]

Nope, you are wrong. Household incomes are what matter here. Median household income, aka the middle class, is about 50K. The upper middle class hits around 100K, something that a single physician can make in his sleep working part-time, never mind a physician couple working full time hours.

And then you have the real upper class, anyone part of a very tiny minority (1% and lower) of folks raking in 250K or higher. All of these people are fabulously wealthy and are living in big houses with fancy cars. If they choose to live modestly, it's because they want to. Doesn't change the fact that they have the means to live like kings if they want to. Inventing your own facts doesn't work in the real world, Barney.

You are way off base as usual. Do you know anyone who is a multimillionaire? Where are you getting your information from?

And I'm not talking about income. That means nothing in terms of the super wealthy.

 

[DermViser]

Anyone in this generation who goes onto becoming rich will endure a lot more than an average doctor will. That is unless they inherited most of the wealth.

Unless one is already born rich or has inherited wealth, there are very few careers in which they can become "rich". Even in medicine this is the case, bc whatever salary you make is heavily offset by the amount of debt you have coming in (with compounding interest) and number of years in residency.

 

[DermViser]

You are way off base as usual. Do you know anyone who is a multimillionaire? Where are you getting your information from?

And I'm not talking about income. That means nothing in terms of the super wealthy.

Every one of rifle's threads that he's started are troll-like in nature. He can't even get the the number right for what is a 1% salary in the U.S., something he could easily Google.

 

[Muffinho]

Now what gets me is alternative careers like NP/PA, which as @darkjedi says is popular to fill in the primary care. Shouldn't that reduce the competition for med school? Plus (and I'm naïve in this, so sorry in advance), physician reimbursements are declining, so medicine is losing its value. Is prestige really a big factor still?

I'm sure there are a bunch of people out there who think having Dr in front of your name is more important than quality of life and overall satisfaction.

In reality, prestige means very little.

 

[studentp0x]

Unless one is already born rich or has inherited wealth, there are very few careers in which they can become "rich". Even in medicine this is the case, bc whatever salary you make is heavily offset by the amount of debt you have coming in (with compounding interest) and number of years in residency.

Yea I was talking about starting a business. One will require tons of skill/knowledge along with tons of luck and much more hard work than what a doctor has put in.

 

[Goro]

I typically see 20% of my interviewees as kids of physicians.

Really?

 

[DermViser]

I'm sure there are a bunch of people out there who think having Dr in front of your name is more important than quality of life and overall satisfaction.

In reality, prestige means very little.

Esp. since now everyone wants to do a shortcut for many of the the same benefits. Look at how white coats have proliferated in hospitals. Even the freakin' Nutritionist wears a long white coat.