Will medical school ever get less oversaturated with applicants?

[Mad Jack]

That's just playing around with how you define upper class. You're being much saying that as a physician you won't be blowing up with cash. That's an obvious for sure except for a small minority of docs.

Big houses and an exotic car are definitely attainable on a physician's income if you do it right. So is going on a 5 star vacation and staying in a 5 star hotel room (not the suite ). Chances are at that point you'll be as satisfied as you can be unless you're pursuing the wolf of wall street lifestyle.

I never said physicians had unsatisfying lives, or that they had low standards of living. But physicians enjoy the best amenities of the middle class, not those of the upper class. Look into the target demographics of most high end luxury brands, and you'll find the income of a physician will not even put you on their radar. There is an entire world that is essentially closed off from all but the upper class- goods, services, and locations that no one in the middle class, physicians included, basically ever sees. When you've got access to that world, you are no longer middle class.

You should also be aware that this is not just semantics. It is important in understanding who wields the power in this country and is at the heart of much of American politics. The upper class exhibit enormous and disproportionate influence on the American political system, and they are almost never, ever on your side as a physician. To believe you are a part of their cadre is to throw yourself under the bus politically.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Muffinho]

Esp. since now everyone wants to do a shortcut for many of the the same benefits. Look at how white coats have proliferated in hospitals. Even the freakin' Nutritionist wears a long white coat.

It is really quite silly.

Nurses (especially NPs), PAs, PTs all make very decent money, have a high level of job satisfaction and take on less debt and time investment than Physicians (I understand that in the US, Physiotherapy is a 4 year program and isn't as cheap as nursing, but the point still stands). All these careers have high job security, but of course, they're not "Doctors".

When you're 60, it won't matter if you had a "prestigious" career.

 

[DermViser]

It is really quite silly.

Nurses (especially NPs), PAs, PTs all make very decent money, have a high level of job satisfaction and take on less debt and time investment than Physicians (I understand that in the US, Physiotherapy is a 4 year program and isn't as cheap as nursing, but the point still stands). All these careers have high job security, but of course, they're not "Doctors".

When you're 60, it won't matter if you had a "prestigious" career.

If your entire self-worth relies on what others think of your career, it's definitely a very sad way to live your life.

 

[Pacna]

I never said physicians had unsatisfying lives, or that they had low standards of living. But physicians enjoy the best amenities of the middle class, not those of the upper class. Look into the target demographics of most high end luxury brands, and you'll find the income of a physician will not even put you on their radar. There is an entire world that is essentially closed off from all but the upper class- goods, services, and locations that no one in the middle class, physicians included, basically ever sees. When you've got access to that world, you are no longer middle class.

You should also be aware that this is not just semantics. It is important in understanding who wields the power in this country and is at the heart of much of American politics. The upper class exhibit enormous and disproportionate influence on the American political system, and they are almost never, ever on your side as a physician. To believe you are a part of their cadre is to throw yourself under the bus politically.

I love you, Mad Jack, you know that, but physicians are not middle class.

 

[DermViser]

I love you, Mad Jack, you know that, but physicians are not middle class.

No they're upper middle class.

 

[Muffinho]

If your entire self-worth relies on what others think of your career, it's definitely a very sad way to live your life.

Indeed.

Many of these people end up being miserable in their profession, regardless of what they do for a living.

For me, I want to primarily do research, but would also like to have some patient contact. I would compromise, however, and avoid a career that has patient contact if it allowed me to stay in Canada and avoid the debt that US medical grads face (probably 2.5-3x what I would be paying in Canada). Is being a physician more "prestigious"? Probably, but who cares?

With regards to middle class: it is simpler to just classify people as what they truly are - working class people. Physicians and Manual Labour Workers have a lot more in common than the media would like you to think.

 

[Pacna]

No they're upper middle class.

GPs are upper middle class. Anything north of $250k is upper class according to Wikipedia and this random article: http://money.usnews.com/money/perso...ou-fall-in-the-american-economic-class-system

 

[DermViser]

GPs are upper middle class. Anything north of $250k is upper class according to Wikipedia and this random article: http://money.usnews.com/money/perso...ou-fall-in-the-american-economic-class-system

You think PCPs make 250 K?

 

[Mad Jack]

I love you, Mad Jack, you know that, but physicians are not middle class.

They are upper middle class. The upper middle class is composed of professionals who primarily rely on income rather than investments. Middle class are generally people educated with a bachelor's or master's degree in salaried positions with moderate levels of responsibility. The lower middle class is largely composed of employed tradesmen and technicians. (This is obviously a very simplified version of a subject that volumes have been written on.) Physicians are certainly upper middle class, but they have neither the wealth nor the political influence to be truly upper class.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upper_middle_class

 

[Pacna]

You think PCPs make 250 K?

Sorry, I should have been more specific. GPs make less than $250k which puts them in the upper middle class. Specialties (generally) make more, putting them in the high class.

 

[Muffinho]

Upper Middle Class is a myth.

 

[Mad Jack]

GPs are upper middle class. Anything north of $250k is upper class according to Wikipedia and this random article: http://money.usnews.com/money/perso...ou-fall-in-the-american-economic-class-system

I'm pretty well read on the subject, and defer to Beeghley's description of the Upper Class, as the portion of Americans that can live on their wealth alone, which is the generally agreed upon barrier of the upper class by sociologists. This corresponds to the top 0.9% of wealth, or somewhere above 6 million dollars. Any self-respecting sociologist will tell you that wealth, not income, is the primary divider between the upper middle and upper class. Article below is linked to give you an idea of how much to save if you want to be a part of the real 1%.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/48800646

 

[studentp0x]

I never said physicians had unsatisfying lives, or that they had low standards of living. But physicians enjoy the best amenities of the middle class, not those of the upper class. Look into the target demographics of most high end luxury brands, and you'll find the income of a physician will not even put you on their radar. There is an entire world that is essentially closed off from all but the upper class- goods, services, and locations that no one in the middle class, physicians included, basically ever sees. When you've got access to that world, you are no longer middle class.

You should also be aware that this is not just semantics. It is important in understanding who wields the power in this country and is at the heart of much of American politics. The upper class exhibit enormous and disproportionate influence on the American political system, and they are almost never, ever on your side as a physician. To believe you are a part of their cadre is to throw yourself under the bus politically.

What exactly are you referring to by services and locations? Goods I understand in that as a physician, you won't be buying a veyron but you can afford a lambo gallardo if you manage your finances properly. That puts you FAR ahead of what the middle class can afford. 150k won't give you the necessary income to buy a gallardo or a "run of the mill ferrari" but 300k will.

I'm not sure by what you mean in terms of goods and services being closed off. You mean being able to buy a human trafficked virgin sex slave? Or having access to that "world"? What is it you're exactly referring to that is "closed off" ?

 

[geneexpression]

You must live in California or the Northeast.

Nah. I live in Georgia.

 

[Mad Jack]

What exactly are you referring to by services and locations? Goods I understand in that as a physician, you won't be buying a veyron but you can afford a lambo gallardo if you manage your finances properly. That puts you FAR ahead of what the middle class can afford. 150k won't give you the necessary income to buy a gallardo or a "run of the mill ferrari" but 300k will.

I'm not sure by what you mean in terms of goods and services being closed off. You mean being able to buy a human trafficked virgin sex slave? Or having access to that "world"? What is it you're exactly referring to that is "closed off" ?

As a physician, you will never have access to a black card, many of the best hedge funds, certain other wealth management vehicles that are exclusive to high earners, many of the higher-end social events and clubs that only the truly wealthy can afford to be a part of, to live in an upper class neighborhood (without significant financial strain), private access suites/booths at the many events, etc. Try to get into a wealth management seminar for high net worth families as a physician, and they'll toss your ass out- that alone should tell you how low you are compared to the upper class. Your petty low seven figure portfolio isn't even worth their time to examine. You can afford the things the wealthy have in the same sense that a poor person can afford a coach bag or BMW- either by saving or with significant strain. When you are upper class, a Rolls is like a Toyota and a multimillion dollar mansion in the Hills puts as much strain on you as a 600k home would put on a physician.

 

[geneexpression]

Yeah. .. no

I lived in a rural area. The wait time for our IM doc was 3 months. and when I was in a bigger town the wait time for an OB/Gyn was 4 to 6 months. Even to see the NP was usually a 3 month deal. The rural town I was in had one OB/Gyn that would come once every two months and getting on her schedule was basically impossible so people would have to drive an hour each way to the next big town to get seen.

I see. I didn't realize the situation was so bad in very rural areas. The area I live in is considered rural by many, and we still have plenty of primary care doctors, yet slim pickings when it comes to specialists. That sounds awful. :/

 

[studentp0x]

As a physician, you will never have access to a black card, many of the best hedge funds, certain other wealth management vehicles that are exclusive to high earners, many of the higher-end social events and clubs that only the truly wealthy can afford to be a part of, to live in an upper class neighborhood (without significant financial strain), private access suites/booths at the many events, etc. Try to get into a wealth management seminar for high net worth families as a physician, and they'll toss your ass out- that alone should tell you how low you are compared to the upper class. Your petty low seven figure portfolio isn't even worth their time to examine. You can afford the things the wealthy have in the same sense that a poor person can afford a coach bag or BMW- either by saving or with significant strain. When you are upper class, a Rolls is like a Toyota and a multimillion dollar mansion in the Hills puts as much strain on you as a 600k home would put on a physician.

Nothing new here. You only have one mouth, one stomach, a pair of eyes and one penis or vagina... you don't require most of those things to make the most of it.
Why don't we look at quality of life instead? If you're a financially skilled and motivated physician, you can obtain a very high quality of life through your inputted income.

BTW, there are physicians who can obtain those things. Didn't over 300 physicians make 3+ million off medicare last year? Highest was 21 million.. Very small number but worth mentioning still.

 

[Mad Jack]

Nothing new here. You only have one mouth, one stomach, a pair of eyes and one penis or vagina... you don't require most of those things to make the most of it.

The same could be said of the poor. They have a roof over their heads, they can afford a beater used car, some crappy processed food, some Dubra, and some clothes. They've got the same stuff as the middle and upper middle class has, just lower quality. But it isn't just the quality of things that one can afford that makes the upper class stand apart. It's the fact that they don't need to work to live. That, in and of itself, is a very big deal, and significantly impacts a person's options and quality of life.

I don't care about nice ****, personally, I live like a Spartan. Luxury goods and being wealthy aren't a goal of mine in life. But it irks me when people say physicians are "the upper class" when they lack all of the hallmark features of the upper class, which you can easily find in any sociology 101 textbook. Possessing profound or multigenerational wealth, a high level of political influence, freedom from the need to work, and access to the highest tiers of the sociopolitical hierarchy are certainly not things most physicians would say they have.

An upper middle class kid might get a car or something as a graduation present. A good friend of mine in college had a C-level executive of a major telecom company for a father. His father bought him a ****ing house as a graduation present, and stopped by with a bottle of Blue Label every time he was in town. That is the life of the upper class- you have the freedom to do basically what you want when you want to without worrying about finances all that much. It's not the same world most doctors live in in a time of ever-growing student loan debts, decreasing reimbursements, hostile payers, and a public that increasingly distrusts them.

 

[darkjedi]

BTW, there are physicians who can obtain those things. Didn't over 300 physicians make 3+ million off medicare last year? Highest was 21 million.. Very small number but worth mentioning still.

Those numbers are gross income, not net. Most of the highest earners are also specialties that have incredibly high costs, like chemo or immune medications that cost thousands per vial.

That's not to say there aren't wealthy physicians, but they typically are involved in things other than just practicing medicine.

 

[DermViser]

Side note: Does anyone else's personal experiences make it difficult to believe that the physician shortage relates mostly to primary care? Obviously my experience alone doesn't count for much. That said, in every area I've ever lived, there have been family medicine doctors all over the place. Furthermore, it has always been really easy to get in to see a family medicine doctor (or an internal medicine doctor, which is what my last primary care doctor was, although I think I'm going to hunt for another doctor because she made me really uncomfortable). I've never had to wait more than a day or two to see a primary care doctor, and I've often been able to get a same-day appointment. Meanwhile, when I needed a neurologist, I had to wait four months before I could get in to see one of the few neurologists in the area. Then, after that, I had to wait at least two months in between appointments. My experience with an ENT was about the same.

Do you live in an urban or rural area? Rural areas are absolutely desperate for PCPs (and doctors in general).

 

[DermViser]

BTW, there are physicians who can obtain those things. Didn't over 300 physicians make 3+ million off medicare last year? Highest was 21 million.. Very small number but worth mentioning still.

Those figures are charges for billing, not take home pay for the doctor. Much of that money goes to things like drugs, etc. not to the doctor.

 

[Muffinho]

Those figures are charges for billing, not take home pay for the doctor. Much of that money goes to things like drugs, etc. not to the doctor.

Of course, the media wants you to think otherwise. Our new BioTech and BigPharma overlords are doing their job well.

 

[Pacna]

I'm pretty well read on the subject, and defer to Beeghley's description of the Upper Class, as the portion of Americans that can live on their wealth alone, which is the generally agreed upon barrier of the upper class by sociologists. This corresponds to the top 0.9% of wealth, or somewhere above 6 million dollars. Any self-respecting sociologist will tell you that wealth, not income, is the primary divider between the upper middle and upper class. Article below is linked to give you an idea of how much to save if you want to be a part of the real 1%.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/48800646

I see. We're operating on different definitions of "upper class." I've never heard upper class being solely those who live on their current $. I knew those people existed, but I didn't realize this was the only consideration for being high class. So that makes everyone else, even people who make $1mil+ per year, some sort of middle or lower class?

 

[darkjedi]

Of course, the media wants you to think otherwise. Our new BioTech and BigPharma overlords are doing their job well.

???

 

[touchpause13]

Honestly the ruling class would probably be an apt term

 

[Muffinho]

Upper Class = Owns the means of production.

Everyone else is part of the working class.

Civil Servants such as police officers, firefighters and perhaps teachers form a different category, but effectively fall into the working class due to income.

 

[geneexpression]

Do you live in an urban or rural area? Rural areas are absolutely desperate for PCPs (and doctors in general).

So maybe the issue isn't so much a shortage of doctors as it is a shortage of doctors willing to practice in rural areas.

I've heard many people describe the area in which I live as rural, but it's definitely not so far oriented toward the rural end of the spectrum that I have to wait months to see a doctor for an incessant cough.

 

[DermViser]

Of course, the media wants you to think otherwise. Our new BioTech and BigPharma overlords are doing their job well.

All the more reason doctors will say f*** it, why bother continuing to take Medicare if my name is going to be publicly dragged in the mud by the media when that Medicare reimbursement is going towards Pharma and Biotech. Medicare pts. already have a bad enough time finding PCPs.

 

[EngineerPreMD]

No they're upper middle class.

I completely agree, but with one stipulation. I think the way the vast majority of doctors live their lives (2-3 kids, decent house, reasonably priced area, etc...) they end up upper middle class. You can take three people with a 250K salary (mind you with substantial debt) and see them living lifestyles ranging from middle to upper middle to upper class. If you want the kids and a nice house and still want to cruise around in a lambo, go practice in rural Oklahoma or Kansas, somewhere where living is dirt cheap. If you want six kids or want to live in the richest parts of Manhattan, you'll be living a middle class lifestyle regardless. If you have no kids, you should be looking for the job with the most vacation days so you can spend the most possible time at your Hawaiian beach house.

Income is only the baseline of what allows for certain lifestyles. You take a bigger financial hit when you find out your wife is having triplets than you do when Obama announces his newest healthcare and tax policy. Also, keep in mind that some people invest and save better than others.

 

[Mad Jack]

BTW, there are physicians who can obtain those things. Didn't over 300 physicians make 3+ million off medicare last year? Highest was 21 million.. Very small number but worth mentioning still.

That data was actually a perfect example of the interests of the wealthy not aligning with those of physicians. The Wall Street Journal, basically the newspaper of the wealthy and financial arm of Rupert Murdoch's media empire, fought to have that information released. It was published completely out of context to make it seem as if the public is paying too much to physicians, so that the public might cry for lower reimbursements from Medicare because "look at those greedy multimillionaire physicians!" Lower medicare reimbursements mean a lower burden on the public debt, which gives the wealthy room to cut more taxes.

Most of those 300 physicians had several employees working beneath them that were billing under their name or were prescribing incredibly expensive drugs. Sure, they're billing 6k for a chemo treatment, but they only make 6% of that sum as a medicare fee, so most of it is overhead.

 

[geneexpression]

It is really quite silly.

Nurses (especially NPs), PAs, PTs all make very decent money, have a high level of job satisfaction and take on less debt and time investment than Physicians (I understand that in the US, Physiotherapy is a 4 year program and isn't as cheap as nursing, but the point still stands). All these careers have high job security, but of course, they're not "Doctors".

When you're 60, it won't matter if you had a "prestigious" career.

Personally, I'd go the PA route in a millisecond if it weren't the case that PA schools won't even consider you without thousands of hours of direct patient contact. In the time I spent accumulating those hours, I could have already made my way half through med school.

 

[Muffinho]

???

Big Pharma and BioTech make an incredibly large amount of money off of health care in the USA (I'm talking Billions). This production of capital was increased by Obamacare (which was disguised as a left wing policy). The media has turned Physicians into the monsters that are making millions off of health care, when in fact, it's Pharma and BioTech.

Physician lobbies lack the resources and power to fight Pharma. Pharma can basically buy the media. In doing so, Pharma makes Physicians the enemy, and reaps the financial rewards.

 

[DermViser]

So maybe the issue isn't so much a shortage of doctors as it is a shortage of doctors willing to practice in rural areas.

I've heard many people describe the area in which I live as rural, but it's definitely not so far oriented toward the rural end of the spectrum that I have to wait months to see a doctor for an incessant cough.

Correct, it's not a shortage in number, but a maldistribution.

 

[DermViser]

Personally, I'd go the PA route in a millisecond if it weren't the case that PA schools won't even consider you without thousands of hours of direct patient contact. In the time I spend accumulating those hours, I could have already made my way half through med school.

http://www.unco.edu/nhs/prehealth/physicianasst/paclinicalexp.html --- According to this, that's 1 year. Big whoop.

 

[Muffinho]

Personally, I'd go the PA route in a millisecond if it weren't the case that PA schools won't even consider you without thousands of hours of direct patient contact. In the time I spend accumulating those hours, I could have already made my way half through med school.

Have you considered Nursing?

 

[Mad Jack]

I see. We're operating on different definitions of "upper class." I've never heard upper class being solely those who live on their current $. I knew those people existed, but I didn't realize this was the only consideration for being high class. So that makes everyone else, even people who make $1mil+ per year, some sort of middle or lower class?

Most people who make a million a year have substantial savings. You don't get to the seven figure range without being smart enough to have a portfolio manager to help you make even more money. But it isn't people who don't work. It's people who have enough money that they don't have to work. Most wealthy individuals still work, but more as a personal challenge and a means of increasing their wealth than as a means to pay the bills. And it isn't like such people are rare- if you look at that article I posted, 1 out of every 100 people that is 40 or older has that level of wealth. Physicians, however, are not often among that group unless they were prudent and patient investors.

 

[geneexpression]

Have you considered Nursing?

Nah, I think I'd hate every second of being a nurse.

 

[DermViser]

You take a bigger financial hit when you find out your wife is having triplets than you do when Obama announces his newest healthcare and tax policy.

Huh?

 

[Muffinho]

Nah, I think I'd hate every second of being a nurse.

According to dermviser, it is only 1 year of experience to get into PA school. I know a lot of Nurses, my cousin is marrying one, and they all love their jobs.

 

[geneexpression]

http://www.unco.edu/nhs/prehealth/physicianasst/paclinicalexp.html --- According to this, that's 1 year. Big whoop.

Plus the time and money it takes to get certified to be an EMT, CNA, etc. Then there's the fact that many/most PA programs actually care what your undergraduate degree is in. Mine is in English, so I'd have to put in a lot of extra effort to prove myself worthy of the PA route. Med schools don't give a damn what my undergraduate major was.

 

[geneexpression]

According to dermviser, it is only 1 year of experience to get into PA school. I know a lot of Nurses, my cousin is marrying one, and they all love their jobs.

I'm not saying there aren't nurses who love their jobs. Nursing doesn't fit every personality type, however. I have a friend who tried the nursing route after realizing she probably wouldn't make it to med school since her practice MCATs all came back around 24. She and I are pretty similar personality-wise. She quit the program after a year because she realized she really, really hated being in the role of the nurse.

There's a possibility that I'd like it, but my gut tells me I wouldn't

 

[studentp0x]

The same could be said of the poor. They have a roof over their heads, they can afford a beater used car, some crappy processed food, some Dubra, and some clothes. They've got the same stuff as the middle and upper middle class has, just lower quality. But it isn't just the quality of things that one can afford that makes the upper class stand apart. It's the fact that they don't need to work to live. That, in and of itself, is a very big deal, and significantly impacts a person's options and quality of life.

I don't care about nice ****, personally, I live like a Spartan. Luxury goods and being wealthy aren't a goal of mine in life. But it irks me when people say physicians are "the upper class" when they lack all of the hallmark features of the upper class, which you can easily find in any sociology 101 textbook. Possessing profound or multigenerational wealth, a high level of political influence, freedom from the need to work, and access to the highest tiers of the sociopolitical hierarchy are certainly not things most physicians would say they have.

An upper middle class kid might get a car or something as a graduation present. A good friend of mine in college had a C-level executive of a major telecom company for a father. His father bought him a ****ing house as a graduation present, and stopped by with a bottle of Blue Label every time he was in town. That is the life of the upper class- you have the freedom to do basically what you want when you want to without worrying about finances all that much. It's not the same world most doctors live in in a time of ever-growing student loan debts, decreasing reimbursements, hostile payers, and a public that increasingly distrusts them.

No I think you missed my point. The 300k/year physician can live in a big house, afford very expensive vacations annually, drive an exotic if they do their finances right, eat most of the same food, and if they're paying for sex like most of that upper class is (they're mostly old geezers, lets be real), will be affording the same "quality" of escorts. That check boxes everything I pointed out.
The middle class will not have any of these things... and if they do, it'll be just one of them (maybe).

Not needing to worry about working only happens to:

1) Children of the upper class who often go down sh*tty paths

2) Retired old guys who worked an insane amount in their lives to accumulate such wealth

 

[DermViser]

Plus the time and money it takes to get certified to be an EMT, CNA, etc. Then there's the fact that many/most PA programs actually care what your undergraduate degree is in. Mine is in English, so I'd have to put in a lot of extra effort to prove myself worthy of the PA route. Med schools don't give a damn what my undergraduate major was.

http://www.unco.edu/nhs/prehealth/physicianasst/paclinicalexp.html
For many programs, this translates into a required minimum of 1 year (2000 hours) of direct, hands-on patient care. This experience can be obtained through paid positions or volunteer work and can come in a wide variety of forms. Direct health care experience can include positions such as medical assistant, emergency medical technician (EMT), paramedic, peace corps volunteer, lab assistant/phlebotomist, health care-related technician, RN, clinical research assistant, community health worker, certified nursing assistant (CNA), physical therapy aide, medical technologist, and scribe. Typically the title of the position is not important; the key is to have actual patient contact with a wide range of patients.

 

[Muffinho]

I'm not saying there aren't nurses who love their jobs. Nursing doesn't fit every personality type, however. I have a friend who tried the nursing route after realizing she probably wouldn't make it to med school since her practice MCATs all came back around 24. She and I are pretty similar personality-wise. She quit the program after a year because she realized she really, really hated being in the role of the nurse.

There's a possibility that I'd like it, but my gut tells me I wouldn't

Fair enough.

 

[geneexpression]

http://www.unco.edu/nhs/prehealth/physicianasst/paclinicalexp.html
For many programs, this translates into a required minimum of 1 year (2000 hours) of direct, hands-on patient care. This experience can be obtained through paid positions or volunteer work and can come in a wide variety of forms. Direct health care experience can include positions such as medical assistant, emergency medical technician (EMT), paramedic, peace corps volunteer, lab assistant/phlebotomist, health care-related technician, RN, clinical research assistant, community health worker, certified nursing assistant (CNA), physical therapy aide, medical technologist, and scribe. Typically the title of the position is not important; the key is to have actual patient contact with a wide range of patients.

They say that, but at least from what I hear, they do care about the nature of the patient contact. My aforementioned friend who decided against applying to med school tried going the PA route as well. She has a 3.85 GPA, thousands of hours of volunteering in hospitals in other clinical environments, and worked as a CNA. Didn't get into any PA programs. She asked one school what it was that kept her from getting an interview and was told her experience wasn't "doctory" enough, and anybody can become a CNA.

It just seems really risky to me to set aside a year or more of life to enter into a new job when the odds of getting into a PA program seem lower than the odds of getting into med school...for me.

 

[Muffinho]

They say that, but at least from what I hear, they do care about the nature of the patient contact. My aforementioned friend who decided against applying to med school tried going the PA route as well. She has a 3.85 GPA, thousands of hours of volunteering in hospitals in other clinical environments, and worked as a CNA. Didn't get into any PA programs. She asked one school what it was that kept her from getting an interview and was told her experience wasn't "doctory" enough, and anybody can become a CNA.

It just seems really risky to me to set aside a year or more of life to enter into a new job when the odds of getting into a PA program seem lower than the odds of getting into med school...for me.

On the other hand, the 1000-2000 hours of patient care experience you gain will probably help with your med school application if PA doesn't work out.

You could be the only person in history to have Med School as a back up plan. Tremendous.

 

[DermViser]

They say that, but at least from what I hear, they do care about the nature of the patient contact. My aforementioned friend who decided against applying to med school tried going the PA route as well. She has a 3.85 GPA, thousands of hours of volunteering in hospitals in other clinical environments, and worked as a CNA. Didn't get into any PA programs. She asked one school what it was that kept her from getting an interview and was told her experience wasn't "doctory" enough, and anybody can become a CNA.

It just seems really risky to me to set aside a year or more of life to enter into a new job when the odds of getting into a PA program seem lower than the odds of getting into med school...for me.

Why be a nursing assistant? She should have been a MEDICAL assistant, since PA falls under medicine, not nursing.

 

[geneexpression]

Why be a nursing assistant? She should have been a MEDICAL assistant, since PA falls under medicine, not nursing.

Not sure why she chose to become a CNA. Maybe because the process of becoming a CNA is so straightforward. That link you cited claimed CNA work qualified, nonetheless.

 

[geneexpression]

On the other hand, the 1000-2000 hours of patient care experience you gain will probably help with your med school application if PA doesn't work out.

You could be the only person in history to have Med School as a back up plan. Tremendous.

hahah. Truth. But it'd also set me back another year or more, and I'm already looking at entering med school at 28 at the youngest.

 

[touchpause13]

Yeah before getting on SDN I took all my applying advice from my cousin who was applying to PA school at the time. It ended up being brilliant for me because I ended up having several thousand hours of direct patient care that med schools loved.