Word is out about Allied Anesthesia (in Orange County). Hold the line, Laddies (and Lassies)

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I am delighted to see Allied Anesthesia is having trouble staffing. I'm not going to link to their increasingly desperate Gaswork ads, but I will note that it certainly appears that they have had to resort to using a locums company to fill their staffing shortages in Pomona and Upland, and that they are paying the recruiters so much that the recruiters are able to offer $300/hour.

I wouldn't ordinarily suggest using a recruiter or middleman or locums company. But the word on the street is that Allied treats individual anesthesiologists so poorly that their subcontractors need a Big Guy in their corner.
Members don't see this ad.
 
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Everyone in OC is short..

However, Allied pays less than most in OC, so I am not surprised
 
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Members don't see this ad :)
nimbus said:
Their ad says >$65/unit at their Pomona Valley location. Is that for real? If so, it must be massively subsidized.

GasWork.com - Reference #400176

www.gaswork.com www.gaswork.com
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Allied tends to fudge their numbers a bit.

They will quote you a high unit rate, but the devil is in the details.

In OC, they are suggesting partners get $45/unit. But then
-12% fee
2 units per block (easily lose 100+ units per month, which amounts to another 10% loss at least in real world unit value)
dont pay for anesthesia time before and after cases (estimate lose 10% of revenue per case, 1 unit per case)

This really puts their true unit value at 32-34, but they can post $45 so it sounds good. And that doesn't even include the fact that they don't pay call stipends, which adds another $5 per unit give or take, per month.

Even at $65, you true unit rate is far lower than that.
 
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UscGhost said:
Allied tends to fudge their numbers a bit.

They will quote you a high unit rate, but the devil is in the details.

In OC, they are suggesting partners get $45/unit. But then
-12% fee
2 units per block (easily lose 100+ units per month, which amounts to another 10% loss at least in real world unit value)
dont pay for anesthesia time before and after cases (estimate lose 10% of revenue per case, 1 unit per case)

This really puts their true unit value at 32-34, but they can post $45 so it sounds good. And that doesn't even include the fact that they don't pay call stipends, which adds another $5 per unit give or take, per month.

Even at $65, you true unit rate is far lower than that.
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Some groups handle units and stipends differently, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s deceptive or unfair. The actual number of units doesn’t matter as long as everyone in a group follows the same rules.

A flat 2 units for procedure helps inflate the pooled unit value, but one could argue that it also creates more fairness across the group. On the flip side, a group that gives full ASA units for procedures is actually deflating their unit value since no one actually collects that full amount for every case.

Now don’t get me wrong, a 12% overhead is unnecessarily high and there are many other things Allied has done to deserve such a low reputation. It seems they are finally reaping what they have sowed.
 
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thinkorswim said:
Some groups handle units and stipends differently, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s deceptive or unfair. The actual number of units doesn’t matter as long as everyone in a group follows the same rules.

A flat 2 units for procedure helps inflate the pooled unit value, but one could argue that it also creates more fairness across the group. On the flip side, a group that gives full ASA units for procedures is actually deflating their unit value since no one actually collects that full amount for every case.

Now don’t get me wrong, a 12% overhead is unnecessarily high and there are many other things Allied has done to deserve such a low reputation. It seems they are finally reaping what they have sowed.
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What is average overhead amongst groups?
 
thinkorswim said:
Some groups handle units and stipends differently, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s deceptive or unfair. The actual number of units doesn’t matter as long as everyone in a group follows the same rules.

A flat 2 units for procedure helps inflate the pooled unit value, but one could argue that it also creates more fairness across the group. On the flip side, a group that gives full ASA units for procedures is actually deflating their unit value since no one actually collects that full amount for every case.

Now don’t get me wrong, a 12% overhead is unnecessarily high and there are many other things Allied has done to deserve such a low reputation. It seems they are finally reaping what they have sowed.
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It depends on what you are trying to accomplish or compare.

In terms of comparing compensation between groups, then stipends and units paid are extremely important in determining total compensation. You would be surprised at how many physicians don't factor in these things when comparing compensation. Similarly, some groups quote high annual incomes without mentioning that you have to take a ton of call to reach that number.

In terms of how compensation is handled internally, there are definitely pros and cons to different models of incentivizing call vs blocks, etc
 
UscGhost said:
It depends on what you are trying to accomplish or compare.

In terms of comparing compensation between groups, then stipends and units paid are extremely important in determining total compensation. You would be surprised at how many physicians don't factor in these things when comparing compensation. Similarly, some groups quote high annual incomes without mentioning that you have to take a ton of call to reach that number.

In terms of how compensation is handled internally, there are definitely pros and cons to different models of incentivizing call vs blocks, etc
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I agree with you. I was only commenting on your numbers breakdown since it doesn’t matter what their “real” unit value is. If they’re quoting it a $45, then the next questions should be how many units does each partner generate on average, how much is overhead, and how does scheduling work.
 
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Interviewed with Allied at several different sites a few years ago. Some of the slimiest people out there. Unfair scheduling (only senior partners get early picks - you never have access to these as a non-partner), inflated unit values, long (7 year IIRC) partner track that wasn’t actually guaranteed in any sort of contractual writing, mock oral board interview in front of 10+ attendings (only at one of their sites) are some of the things that made this the absolute most malignant group I have ever seen. I would sell my soul and work for an AMC 100x over before working for this soulless group.
 
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CD125 said:
Interviewed with Allied at several different sites a few years ago. Some of the slimiest people out there. Unfair scheduling (only senior partners get early picks - you never have access to these as a non-partner), inflated unit values, long (7 year IIRC) partner track that wasn’t actually guaranteed in any sort of contractual writing, mock oral board interview in front of 10+ attendings (only at one of their sites) are some of the things that made this the absolute most malignant group I have ever seen. I would sell my soul and work for an AMC 100x over before working for this soulless group.
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All of the options in OC are pretty bad. UCI just increased their salary and might be one of the better options in OC now.

It seems like a lot of vestigial Ponzi scheme group behavior is perpetuated there because the location allows for a slightly enhanced payor mixed plus people want to be in OC (which personally I’d never want to live in).

Groups behaving like that now are going to have unresolvable recruitment problems because there are much much better options out there. Plus reimbursement overall is going down…. Which means said group(s) would probably be eager to get PE acquired at this point. In the end Ponzi scheme group leaders are all about the money and there’s absolutely no way for them to continue their gravy train. So my prediction is that they’ll implode and and/or get acquired in the near future. This prediction is based on pure speculation rather than any actual group knowledge by the way.
 
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UscGhost said:
Allied tends to fudge their numbers a bit.

They will quote you a high unit rate, but the devil is in the details.

In OC, they are suggesting partners get $45/unit. But then
-12% fee
2 units per block (easily lose 100+ units per month, which amounts to another 10% loss at least in real world unit value)
dont pay for anesthesia time before and after cases (estimate lose 10% of revenue per case, 1 unit per case)

This really puts their true unit value at 32-34, but they can post $45 so it sounds good. And that doesn't even include the fact that they don't pay call stipends, which adds another $5 per unit give or take, per month.

Even at $65, you true unit rate is far lower than that.
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The ad says annual compensation range is $700-850k for that position. That’s pretty hard to do with a unit value in the low-mid 30s.
 
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nimbus said:
The ad says annual compensation range is $700-850k for that position. That’s pretty hard to do with a unit value in the low-mid 30s.







Yep, interviewed at a place that payed $34 a unit and was quoted similar numbers in the Midwest. Asked the chair how many units they averaged in a year and he said 18-19000 per anesthesiologist. Seemed a little high.
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Members don't see this ad :)
Hi,

I'm a long term reader, first time poster. I saw this post and thought I could chime in, as this relates to my group. I'm not exactly one of the big partners and was just hired by Allied 2.5 years ago when I moved to SoCal. I'm also not a fresh resident and have kind of been around the block for about 10years.

I think it's important to distinguish that there are 3 subdivisions. Orange, Fullerton, and Upland (IE) divisions. I'm apart of the Upland division, and can only speak of my experience there. Having worked there for ~2.5 years (and not 7), I am now officially a partner. Just like any other group, I think there can always be improvements, but I'm pretty satisfied with my pay relative to the work that I do.

In regards to the Pomona/Upland gaswork posting, as far as I know, this has nothing to do with the other divisions, other than Upland. I think the unit value $65/unit, looks a little inflated as well, as I believe it takes into account the call stipends, assuming you keep and don't trade away all of your assigned call. The payer-mix, as you can imagine, is not great and I think Pomona knows this and is willing to help hire more, good quality anesthesiologists. It's from my limited understanding, the unit rate has been subsidized (separate from the call subsidy pool), resulting in a unit value closer to $45-50/unit. My main hospital is not Pomona, but I have covered shifts there and I think $700k is not unreasonable.

Without going into too much detail, the Allied Upland division has done a lot for me and helped accommodate my very complicated situation. I've also seen them develop good relationships with the hospitals to help navigate through this anesthesia shortage. I just thought it was right to defend them a little bit.

Please feel free to PM me with any specific questions.
 
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CD125 said:
Interviewed with Allied at several different sites a few years ago. Some of the slimiest people out there. Unfair scheduling (only senior partners get early picks - you never have access to these as a non-partner), inflated unit values, long (7 year IIRC) partner track that wasn’t actually guaranteed in any sort of contractual writing, mock oral board interview in front of 10+ attendings (only at one of their sites) are some of the things that made this the absolute most malignant group I have ever seen. I would sell my soul and work for an AMC 100x over before working for this soulless group.
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Hey guys, there needs to be some clarification here about Allied Anesthesia. Allied is composed of three divisions: Orange, Fullerton and Upland. Each of which operate completely independent of each other, almost like 3 separate groups to some extent. Your assessment here is more about Orange than the other two divisions. I can't comment about Orange, since I've never worked there, despite being an Allied member. Though I've been with Upland for several years. I started as a junior partner and then moved up to a senior partner over the years. They've been fair in every sense from day 1. Everyone takes equal call, no preference in case selections between anyone, weekend and holiday calls are shared equally. Finances are transparent to all members. Partnership tracks are 2yrs or less and buy-in in 5% or less.
With the nationwide shortage, groups have had to go back to hospitals for support to attract the few candidates out there. Pomona, which falls under the Upland Division, is a prime example of that. Unit values with call subsides are truly as advertised. Anesthesia job market is very lucrative now due to the short supply of anesthesiologist. If anyone is at all interested in knowing details about Allied Anesthesia-Upland Division, please DM. You will not be disappointed with the information!
 
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Kind of suspect to have two brand-spanking-new posters touting Allied….

And I’m not hating on allied per se. Just… suspect.
 
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kidthor said:
Kind of suspect to have two brand-spanking-new posters touting Allied….

And I’m not hating on allied per se. Just… suspect.
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One joined in 2005. Just doesn’t post much.

If an insider says they are happy, they probably are. Doesn’t mean everyone would be happy there but that person is. I take insider info more seriously than those opining from the outside. This goes for all the recent job threads…DFW, Kaiser SoCal, Hackensack, Allied, etc.
 
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nimbus said:
One joined in 2005. Just doesn’t post much.

If an insider says they are happy, they probably are. Doesn’t mean everyone would be happy there but that person is. I take insider info more seriously than those opining from the outside. This goes for all the recent job threads…DFW, Kaiser SoCal, Hackensack, Allied, etc.
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Agree with nimbus. Obviously everything posted on here needs to be taken with a grain of salt, but the depth of their replies indicates they have knowledge about the group in question and FWIW they seem happy with how things are run over there. Additionally, they are not defending all the above criticisms regarding allied, only the select division/hospitals with which the are familiar with. Not sure what more you can ask for lol
 
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kidthor said:
Kind of suspect to have two brand-spanking-new posters touting Allied….

And I’m not hating on allied per se. Just… suspect.
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I read these forums often, and usually chuckle at what I read for entertainment. But, when I noticed negative comments about our division, I just couldn't standby and not say anything.
 
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nimbus said:
Odd that the best paid shift is 10hr daytime OR. Maybe the night shifts are attractive to somebody looking to moonlight. Why would anyone do a 24hr trauma shift (+14hrs) for $500 more?
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The worst one is 600K full-time, 4-5 calls per month.
 
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have never heard any good things about allied in all my years in so cal. heard great things about hoag and mission groups in OC though.
 
narcotics999 said:
Because you will probably work 60hrs/week.
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Hours per week isn't as important as the fact that allied pays a lower unit value than surrounding groups and partners get preferential scheduling.

They also don't pay full value for regional and only for OR time.
 
kidthor said:
Fair enough! I retract my precious comment.
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Oh don’t retract. It’s definitely suspect, but that doesn’t make it wrong or not a worthwhile post.

My guess is someone from Allied Health sent an email (after reading this) and said something like “…bad things are being said about us on SDN. If you wouldn’t mind, please go post something nice”

I remember I was a fellow at Virginia Mason, and someone said something negative about the residency, then the director sent an email to all the residents that if they would, to please come here and say something nice.
 
nimbus said:
The ad says annual compensation range is $700-850k for that position. That’s pretty hard to do with a unit value in the low-mid 30s.
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depends on how hard they flog the horse
if your compensation includes taking ridiculous weekends and long shifts then i'm sure you'll meet those numbers
i'd rather work less and have a better lifestyle
 
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gaslight101 said:
Hi,

I'm a long term reader, first time poster. I saw this post and thought I could chime in, as this relates to my group. I'm not exactly one of the big partners and was just hired by Allied 2.5 years ago when I moved to SoCal. I'm also not a fresh resident and have kind of been around the block for about 10years.

I think it's important to distinguish that there are 3 subdivisions. Orange, Fullerton, and Upland (IE) divisions. I'm apart of the Upland division, and can only speak of my experience there. Having worked there for ~2.5 years (and not 7), I am now officially a partner. Just like any other group, I think there can always be improvements, but I'm pretty satisfied with my pay relative to the work that I do.

In regards to the Pomona/Upland gaswork posting, as far as I know, this has nothing to do with the other divisions, other than Upland. I think the unit value $65/unit, looks a little inflated as well, as I believe it takes into account the call stipends, assuming you keep and don't trade away all of your assigned call. The payer-mix, as you can imagine, is not great and I think Pomona knows this and is willing to help hire more, good quality anesthesiologists. It's from my limited understanding, the unit rate has been subsidized (separate from the call subsidy pool), resulting in a unit value closer to $45-50/unit. My main hospital is not Pomona, but I have covered shifts there and I think $700k is not unreasonable.

Without going into too much detail, the Allied Upland division has done a lot for me and helped accommodate my very complicated situation. I've also seen them develop good relationships with the hospitals to help navigate through this anesthesia shortage. I just thought it was right to defend them a little bit.

Please feel free to PM me with any specific questions.
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What is the shareholder situation at the Upland division?
 
I'm a member of the Orange division of Allied Anesthesia. I've followed the posts on SDN over the years. I can confirm that much of what was written about Allied Orange was true. I actually applaud those who posted because it shed light on the unfair and greedy practices of the group towards younger members. It may even have played a small part in the huge changes made in our division. I am seven years out in practice. Please feel free to look at my profile to deduce how many years out I am. I am not an older member in the group. Came directly from pediatric fellowship to Orange. I came at a time when Orange was at its worst (when there was only an employee track with no partnership) and have stayed through the enormous changes that have been made to where it is now -- two years to partnership with full profit sharing. As has been mentioned above, this applies to the Orange division. I cannot speak for Fullerton or Upland.

So why am I going to bat for Orange? I love my job. Please don't laugh, but I'm being dead serious when I say that the Orange division went from being possibly the worst job in Orange County to the best. Children's Hospital OC and Saint Joseph Hospital were always great places to work. The culture at both is great. Phenomenal surgeons who are agreeable and respect us. Also a very pleasant perioperative environment at our surgery centers. Going to work was always enjoyable, but now that Allied Orange has instituted massive changes to make the group fair and equitable, I want to spend my whole career here. I work on average around 45 hours per week, share equal call (first call once every 16 days or so) with every other partner, and make around $650K. That is just doing the work assigned to me. I take 8 weeks of vacation. I'm in a stage of life with two young kids where I am perfectly fine not working too rigorously. I say that to highlight that we have guys making over $1 million. It is definitely possible if you want to work more here.

I'm posting to change the narrative that Allied Orange is to be avoided. It is a new day for private practice in Orange County. Several of the oldest, most exclusionary partners have retired. The ones who remain have owned their mistakes of the past. The group is currently being largely led by middle aged guys in their 40s who want to see this group thrive for decades to come. Partners in their 30s are stepping up, myself included, to be a part of something exciting. Growing a real private practice, making obscene amounts of money, and INCLUDING everyone for the ride.
 
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Guillermo said:
I'm a member of the Orange division of Allied Anesthesia. I've followed the posts on SDN over the years. I can confirm that much of what was written about Allied Orange was true. I actually applaud those who posted because it shed light on the unfair and greedy practices of the group towards younger members. It may even have played a small part in the huge changes made in our division. I am seven years out in practice. Please feel free to look at my profile to deduce how many years out I am. I am not an older member in the group. Came directly from pediatric fellowship to Orange. I came at a time when Orange was at its worst (when there was only an employee track with no partnership) and have stayed through the enormous changes that have been made to where it is now -- two years to partnership with full profit sharing. As has been mentioned above, this applies to the Orange division. I cannot speak for Fullerton or Upland.

So why am I going to bat for Orange? I love my job. Please don't laugh, but I'm being dead serious when I say that the Orange division went from being possibly the worst job in Orange County to the best. Children's Hospital OC and Saint Joseph Hospital were always great places to work. The culture at both is great. Phenomenal surgeons who are agreeable and respect us. Also a very pleasant perioperative environment at our surgery centers. Going to work was always enjoyable, but now that Allied Orange has instituted massive changes to make the group fair and equitable, I want to spend my whole career here. I work on average around 45 hours per week, share equal call (first call once every 16 days or so) with every other partner, and make around $650K. That is just doing the work assigned to me. I take 8 weeks of vacation. I'm in a stage of life with two young kids where I am perfectly fine not working too rigorously. I say that to highlight that we have guys making over $1 million. It is definitely possible if you want to work more here.

I'm posting to change the narrative that Allied Orange is to be avoided. It is a new day for private practice in Orange County. Several of the oldest, most exclusionary partners have retired. The ones who remain have owned their mistakes of the past. The group is currently being largely led by middle aged guys in their 40s who want to see this group thrive for decades to come. Partners in their 30s are stepping up, myself included, to be a part of something exciting. Growing a real private practice, making obscene amounts of money, and INCLUDING everyone for the
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Why’d you even bother joining them when they were employee only? It sounded like an awful exploitative setup at that time.

Last I spoke with Allied, which wasn’t that long ago (maybe 1-2 yrs ago) it was clear they were giving much lower unit values to non-partners and also keeping high unit cases away from non-partners… plus they had that toxic legacy of partners who wanted to keep money to themselves while churning through underlings.

If what you’re saying is true, and I hope it is, then it’s a great development.
 
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Coming out of fellowship, I just wanted a job. It's funny how far the market has swung so far the other way. I wanted to do real peds anesthesia (i.e. be at a children's hospital, doing all types of peds cases) and not a practice where you do 5-10% healthy outpatient ENT or urology, which were my only other offers at the time. I didn't want to feel like my fellowship was a waste of time. Was I naive as a new grad? Yes, and had I known then what I know now about private practice, I would not have joined.

What kept me here? My passion for peds. Also the perioperative staff, who are awesome. I have grown as an anesthesiologist and have such incredible satisfaction knowing I'm skilled to care for infants, kids, women in labor, to elderly patients. Would I have grown as such in other practices? Likely not, especially not doing complex peds regularly. Don't get me wrong, there were many times I thought about leaving. But slowly over the years, change happened. First reintroducing partnership track. Equalizing scheduling. Equalizing call. Decreasing the years to partnership.

Yes, these changes ARE true, and are ground breaking. It will take time to regain trust but I hope my post is a start.
 
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Guillermo said:
I'm a member of the Orange division of Allied Anesthesia. I've followed the posts on SDN over the years. I can confirm that much of what was written about Allied Orange was true. I actually applaud those who posted because it shed light on the unfair and greedy practices of the group towards younger members. It may even have played a small part in the huge changes made in our division. I am seven years out in practice. Please feel free to look at my profile to deduce how many years out I am. I am not an older member in the group. Came directly from pediatric fellowship to Orange. I came at a time when Orange was at its worst (when there was only an employee track with no partnership) and have stayed through the enormous changes that have been made to where it is now -- two years to partnership with full profit sharing. As has been mentioned above, this applies to the Orange division. I cannot speak for Fullerton or Upland.

So why am I going to bat for Orange? I love my job. Please don't laugh, but I'm being dead serious when I say that the Orange division went from being possibly the worst job in Orange County to the best. Children's Hospital OC and Saint Joseph Hospital were always great places to work. The culture at both is great. Phenomenal surgeons who are agreeable and respect us. Also a very pleasant perioperative environment at our surgery centers. Going to work was always enjoyable, but now that Allied Orange has instituted massive changes to make the group fair and equitable, I want to spend my whole career here. I work on average around 45 hours per week, share equal call (first call once every 16 days or so) with every other partner, and make around $650K. That is just doing the work assigned to me. I take 8 weeks of vacation. I'm in a stage of life with two young kids where I am perfectly fine not working too rigorously. I say that to highlight that we have guys making over $1 million. It is definitely possible if you want to work more here.

I'm posting to change the narrative that Allied Orange is to be avoided. It is a new day for private practice in Orange County. Several of the oldest, most exclusionary partners have retired. The ones who remain have owned their mistakes of the past. The group is currently being largely led by middle aged guys in their 40s who want to see this group thrive for decades to come. Partners in their 30s are stepping up, myself included, to be a part of something exciting. Growing a real private practice, making obscene amounts of money, and INCLUDING everyone for the ride.
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I am curious as to how one reaches 650k-1 million.

Last I heard, the unit value was high 30s BEFORE fees, only 2 units per block, no call stipends.

So unless everyone is pumping out 1400+ units per month, then I don't see where the revenue is coming from?
 
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If you DM me, I am happy to give details about how we reach those income levels.
 
This year the Allied Orange group lost a large surgery center due to questionable decisions from their younger leadership. I recommend others maintain a healthy degree of skepticism going forward about any claims about the strength and prospects of the group. Maybe the tide is turning, but history sure doesn’t shed a favorable light. New grads beware any promises made. How much $$$ would it take for you to get on board the Titanic?
 
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Yep, we no longer staff that surgery center. I never went there and am not qualified to speak on the topic. Comparing us to the Titanic is a bit sensationalist but OK. We have 60 anesthesiologists and multiple surgery centers. I'm not the enemy here. Just want to send the message that our group has transformed to become far more egalitarian. Would it have been possible without the younger leadership? Nope.
 
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Guillermo said:
Just want to send the message that our group has transformed to become far more egalitarian. Would it have been possible without the younger leadership? Nope.
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It may be more helpful to elaborate on exactly what has changed and what a new hire is looking at these days. The Allied that most of us know consisted of the following:

- a 5-7 year partnership track
- unit value in high $30s (before overhead), but lower than that for non-partners
- partners get to pick best rooms, newer guys got stuck with garbage rooms, longer days, and no relief
- there were regular partners and then the “senior” partners or “shareholders” who received an outsized portion of the profit sharing each year

So a lot of us are just curious as to what exactly has changed. It’s not easy to create a new culture overnight in a group as hierarchical as the one described above. That’s all.
 
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thinkorswim said:
It may be more helpful to elaborate on exactly what has changed and what a new hire is looking at these days. The Allied that most of us know consisted of the following:

- a 5-7 year partnership track
- unit value in high $30s (before overhead), but lower than that for non-partners
- partners get to pick best rooms, newer guys got stuck with garbage rooms, longer days, and no relief
- there were regular partners and then the “senior” partners or “shareholders” who received an outsized portion of the profit sharing each year

So a lot of us are just curious as to what exactly has changed. It’s not easy to create a new culture overnight in a group as hierarchical as the one described above. That’s all.
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About a year or so ago, I heard it was around
$44 per partner, $40 for junior. Minus 10% for fees. So net 40/36
No call stipends
2 units per block
Partner around 18 months
Buy in for profit sharing was 100k+
OB call wasnt required
1st call was 1-2 per month
 
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It is two years to partnership with full profit sharing if you are fellowship trained (peds or cardiac), three years if generalist. Starting unit value is $38, goes up on your two (or three) year anniversary without a vote automatically to the high $40s. Profits are put into the unit value. Depending on collections that month, it may break $50.

Partners are guaranteed more units per day. The way it works out is pre partners tend to have lighter days. These are interspersed with higher call frequency (q8 first call) where more units are made.

Room unit density (units / hour) are being recorded. Everyone's average is tracked. I am not an older partner. Last week I did 14 cataracts. The week before I did 10 ECTs one day, the next day 12 peds GI. Daily room units averages are also tracked and equalized

Culture was not changed overnight. It has taken years. Slowly but surely change has happened.
 
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Guillermo said:
It is two years to partnership with full profit sharing if you are fellowship trained (peds or cardiac), three years if generalist. Starting unit value is $38, goes up on your two (or three) year anniversary without a vote automatically to the high $40s. Profits are put into the unit value. Depending on collections that month, it may break $50.

Partners are guaranteed more units per day. The way it works out is pre partners tend to have lighter days. These are interspersed with higher call frequency (q8 first call) where more units are made.

Room unit density (units / hour) are being recorded. Everyone's average is tracked. I am not an older partner. Last week I did 14 cataracts. The week before I did 10 ECTs one day, the next day 12 peds GI. Daily room units averages are also tracked and equalized

Culture was not changed overnight. It has taken years. Slowly but surely change has happened.
Click to expand...

It seems things may have changed on the surface but that’s still quite a large buy in. From your numbers, it is about $150k per year (about $10 lower on unit value) with more call and late shifts for 2-3 years.

That still doesn’t sound too fair to me though. A new hire would need to hustle hard for those 17,000 units to hit the $650k income level you stated. That’s tougher since they’ll be starting with a more unfavorable schedule right off the bat. Meanwhile a partner would get to $650k with 13,000 units and probably be home for dinner most nights.

Either way it sounds like things are at least heading in the right direction. I hope it continues and you guys are able to thrive.
 
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That to me still seems somewhat abusive. To take a hefty ~$10/unit and then to be given a worse line up is like a double whammy. And then the increased call. Triple whammy
 
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dumbmedstudent said:
That to me still seems somewhat abusive. To take a hefty ~$10/unit and then to be given a worse line up is like a double whammy. And then the increased call. Triple whammy
Click to expand...
It’s certainly not fair or in line with current market forces. It’s not a deal I’d personally take. I’d rather work locums than have someone exploit me out of my true worth and string me along for 2 years before which they may sell to the PE backed anesthesia salt mine of the day. Especially given that there are some legacy partners that I’m sure would like a big final payday.

It seems like they went from wildly abusive to just regular old abusive.

FWIW I appreciate Guillermo’s insight and responses.
 
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