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When do you consider reaching escape velocity as far as investments go?
Started by finalpsychyear
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Yes. I’m not made or anything about that time frame. Annoyed yes for some people getting away with it. Walking away from debt.
But that’s just life and it comes full circle.
But do want to give the younger docs some perspective since many under 45 really have not felt any significant prolonged crash taking 5 plus years to recover
We saw how Covid crashed the market by 35% in two months. That was scary. But it rebounded so quickly that it became a blur to many people. Just imagine if it’s still covering after 5-6 plus years.
cittykat
Full Member
Why would they sell at all? It’s not like anesthesiologists were losing jobs at that time. I bought a house in 2005 in southern Ca. It became underwater for a while but I just stayed put. Then the market came roaring back. I could never afford it now.
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Real estate is all about location
Southern California (proper) had a decline but recovered within 8-9 years. Vs Bakersfield or Fresno California which took 15 years (when COVID) happen to return to peak level
So location matters a lot with housing recovery.
Anesthesia market was starting to get tight in 2010 in Florida. Many practices were selling out left and right (first mednax/american anesthesiology) took the most profitable groups 2007/-2013
Than usap took the most profitable groups 2013/4 with its formation of the original big 3 and expanded rapidly until 2017.
Sheridan team health Napa were also major players in purchases (or simply just stole contracts without a buyout).
So why sell?
Non compete radius of more than 20 miles.
Had to move
And can’t sell underwater home. We are taking 300k decease in value. It’s a massive amount for newer grad to pay off plus their own personal expenses student loans kids etc.
Did you retire from the Army or leave after your ADSO? Reserves?
Funding your kids' Roths the instant they have any earned income is also a great idea that few people do.
My 3 kids are in their 20s, with jobs and lives of their own, but I still max their Roths every year. This year it'll be $24K - not a stretch for me but it makes a big difference in their lives and long term asset growth. They're going to get all my stuff when I die anyway.
Net worth about $3.9M right now including a house in decent area of California fully paid off. About $1.5M in retirement pretax, $300k in Roth accounts, $120k in DBP, and $800k in brokerage funds.
Aiming to aggressively boost my net worth to $6-7M and to have around $4-5M in my brokerage funds in the next 5 years.
Aiming to aggressively boost my net worth to $6-7M and to have around $4-5M in my brokerage funds in the next 5 years.
I think a lot of this thread shows how good the anesthesiology market has been recently. (Well, maybe except for that guy in the Bay Area who posted a while back and was completely house poor.) Really one heck of a bargain.
After a 2 year fellowship, I didn’t hit those Envision numbers until maybe PGY9, then got a practice loan with monthly minimums of >$10k that carried to PGY12, so I wasn’t really putting away the liquid I could if I had a decent anesthesia gig right out of the gate. It could have been worse - I have a friend older than me who was quoted double my buy in at the same time. A 5-8 year head start is a lot.
I still hit $2M liquid before 40 with over $3M net worth. I’ll be at $10M by 50 if I get as low as a 3% return.
You get that $2M at 40 saving $120k/yr for 10 years at 10% and can do $10M at 50 with ~$160k/yr. That’s not a horribly difficult ask with the current job market, other than saying well I’m definitely getting 10% and I’ll ignore inflation.
After a 2 year fellowship, I didn’t hit those Envision numbers until maybe PGY9, then got a practice loan with monthly minimums of >$10k that carried to PGY12, so I wasn’t really putting away the liquid I could if I had a decent anesthesia gig right out of the gate. It could have been worse - I have a friend older than me who was quoted double my buy in at the same time. A 5-8 year head start is a lot.
I still hit $2M liquid before 40 with over $3M net worth. I’ll be at $10M by 50 if I get as low as a 3% return.
You get that $2M at 40 saving $120k/yr for 10 years at 10% and can do $10M at 50 with ~$160k/yr. That’s not a horribly difficult ask with the current job market, other than saying well I’m definitely getting 10% and I’ll ignore inflation.
Totally agree. Really happy for the income freshly minted anesthesiologists are making. Work hard now, profit later.
I think the PJ world makes sense if you are sharing with friends/couples and doing trips that aren't necessarily far but harder to reach places (islands, golf destinations, etc) with private only airports versus flying commercial then transport to said destination.
1% of the 1% stuff is a different level of course.
It should not be hard for the folks coming out now to get to FI in 15 years whilst living well
I was very fortunate with moonlighting opportunities. Made up most of the mil-civ pay gap, most years, though I was working like a dog.
Beyond the pension (+cheap healthcare), the other two financial factors that led me to stay the full 20 were being able to exploit the concurrent payback loophole for a FTOS fellowship, and transferring my GI Bill benefits.
Getting paid ~$275K as a civilian fellow in 2016 while getting retirement credit was a great deal. They really narrowed the conditions that permitted that before I got out though.
And between my GI Bill benefit and some Yellow Ribbon program money, I think we ended up saving over $200K in college costs. One kid made a profit going to a private college - the excess from the huge housing allowance subsidized his brother's tuition for a couple years.
Sadly the paternity leave benefit came along well after my kids were born. No retroactive credit. :/
My experience was atypical though. Whole lot of luck in duty stations and COs and the ever-shifting rules. These days with the anesthesia market the way it is, GTFO at the earliest opportunity for HPSP'ers is very very clearly the far superior financial choice.
I briefly hit $2M this past friday and turned 37 last week of August.
Hoping to get to $3M by 40 and $6M by 45. Then its FIWO until I drop dead. I love the anesthesiology and pain game too much.
Hoping to get to $3M by 40 and $6M by 45. Then its FIWO until I drop dead. I love the anesthesiology and pain game too much.
I briefly hit $2M this past friday and turned 37 last week of August.
Hoping to get to $3M by 40 and $6M by 45. Then its FIWO until I drop dead. I love the anesthesiology and pain game too much.
Just curious: how do you get to $2M age <40? Aggressive investments? Savings? Single? Help? All of the above?
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I’m a net worth millionaire at 32. Single, no kids, work a lot.
Same age. In my case (not anesthesia) moonlighting a LOT in residency and fellowship.
All of the above. No kids, aggressive savings that I invested. Worked nearly every weekend in residency moonlighting up to the allowed duty hours restriction.
Did locums a lot, still do.
But I still have my kids AKA my cars. They cost just as much LOL.
cittykat
Full Member
G63 = $250k
911 4 GTS = $215k
total = $465K
Total to raise a kid according to the most recent stats is $303k.
Average Cost of Raising a Child to 18 per Year | SoFi
The average cost of raising a child to 18 in the U.S. is about $17K per year. Learn the budget items you’ll need to plan for before taking the leap.
www.sofi.com
cittykat
Full Member
G63 = $250k
911 4 GTS = $215k
total = $465K
Total to raise a kid according to the most recent stats is $303k.
Average Cost of Raising a Child to 18 per Year | SoFi
The average cost of raising a child to 18 in the U.S. is about $17K per year. Learn the budget items you’ll need to plan for before taking the leap.www.sofi.com
Average doc and similar professionals likely spend >>$1mil/kid.
We’ve spent $16k for not quite 1 week at a horse show.
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You sound a lot like my bff with his cars. Yellow Lamborghini (forgot what model) Ferrari 488 gtb before the age of 40 and the Mercedes and Porsche 911.
But he also had a sahm and two young girls at age.
But he had housing and stock crash to deal with. So his net worth is only 4 million at age 51.
Like I said. If you are you younger than age 40. The stock market and housing has never crashed. But it may not matter if you jump start at young age even if it crashes.
So younger folks don’t know any difference.
But if you are pain. You should try to get ownership. My 40 year pain friend is over 7 million now but he owns a significant portion of his ASC and works 4 days a week. No calls no weekends. Wife and 2 kids. He’s literaly holding the sale of the ASC up over demanding 15 million vs the 4 million buyout. He too spends like crazy with those AP watches and lambos.
But good for you. Live life. And spend it.
G63 = $250k
911 4 GTS = $215k
total = $465K
Total to raise a kid according to the most recent stats is $303k.
Average Cost of Raising a Child to 18 per Year | SoFi
The average cost of raising a child to 18 in the U.S. is about $17K per year. Learn the budget items you’ll need to plan for before taking the leap.www.sofi.com
Nothing wrong with having kids. My wife had one this year. Just realize that the longer you hold off the more you can have down the line.
I was rocking a 4runner with 200k miles on it at your age. My wife was rocking the used highlander. 🤣
Porsche club!
Attachments
992.2 turbo s?
I feel your pain. I was an equestrian show jumper - spent tons of my parents money… and then tons of mine as an attending. The horses are sooo expensive and the sport has changed so much. Also couldn’t keep up with the bloombergs, Johnsons, Springsteen and the rest of the heiresses… that’s real money.
That appears to be the case…
A .3 would be unprecedented. A person can dream...
cittykat
Full Member
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Yeah, it is the 992.2. I bought my first Turbo S in 2020, and it was a 992.1. Since then, I've had a couple more Turbo S's. I think they're great daily drivers, and they are no fuss and no headache. This new T hybrid generation is definitely better from a performance standpoint, but it's less visceral. More technical, more responsive, less visceral.
I love your Cayenne. Is that a wrap? My wife has a G63, and we were just talking about switching into a Cayenne the other day.
I have a 997.1 S, which is from when they were still more machine than computer. Still, the turbo S looks incredible, performance-wise. I was really psyched when they announced the new S would have a 6-speed. Not that I have 180K burning a hole in my pocket....
NICE!!! That deletion of the turbo lag with the turbo s is peak. Congrats!! 👌🏽How do you feel about the new digital cluster? I’ve grown used to it on my wife's new GTS, but there is something about a 992.1 that draws me to them.
We stealth wrapped hers right out of the box and the turbo gt wheels just made the final look. Door handles, trim and all the carbon fiber accents are ppf’d in gloss and the rest in stealth ppf- fun build. It’s slower than your monster, but it’s still incredibly fast and intoxicating to drive. We went a little crazy on options, but I feel they were worth it in the end.
FWIW, we tried all the V8 ICE brands. RSQ8, X6M comp, GLE 63 S, etc and nothing came close to the driving experience and thrill of the gts. The tune of that V8 sound is mind blowing tbh.
My wife is super thrilled as am I for her.
I wish I knew the formula of when to cut back. I do know mathematically once you start hitting 5-7 range the highest ROI is still working enuf to pay expenses. Whether or not you keep putting in 100-200k extra wont move the needle but may extend your career happiness which may ultimately lead to not only better numbers but a better you overall.
How did you decide when to cut back. You dont need to give specifics # of liquid NW or whatever maybe just what your SWR or burn rate relative to your NW was like 2-3% swr and that drove you to 0.5 fte decision perhaps? Should you have done it even sooner in retrospect?
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For me it was when I really came to understand SWR vs actual expected outcomes based on historical returns (YMMV). The idea of dying with the numbers I was calculating based on continued FT work until 65 followed by taking ~4% while staying invested in at least 60-80% equities for 20 years started to seem ridiculous.
I wish I knew the formula.
I am the product of an American mother and a naturalized American citizen from South America. The four of us (I also have a brother) spent our first 12 years of life in an apartment in South America that was about 1000 sq ft. Both my parents worked hard as middle class citizens (my father ascended the ranks once we moved to the US) and instilled values that underlined education, progression of self and conservative spending. I guess those values carried through as they are core values today.
I knew when to cut back when I realized that work is something I enjoy and don't need as a financial crutch. No math, no SWR, just overshot the goal post as it happened relatively quickly due to market conditions, investments, etc.
Once we took the time to enjoy life outside of work we slowly gravitated from "super worker bees" to "today was fun, but I am ready to go home and enjoy the moments". I've been saying this for 20+ years on this forum- Anesthesia is an amazing career. Yes, 2am Type A dissections that need to cool to 19 degrees blows, but at the same time it's a very privileged space to be in alongside like-minded colleagues.
In the end, everybody has their own number that may differ, but if I speak frankly I never looked at it as a financial decision. We work at a regional center and I still do cardiac call, trauma call and 1st call and below. I enjoy that work.
.5 FTE is really nice: work 5 days then 9 days off. The paycheck will be considerably lower but you are exchanging money for experiences.
Hope that helps. 🙂
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That sounds more like a spending problem than that it costs to raise a kid to 18.
Doing locums right now in general anesthesia but may opt to ease into pain.
mines a 2025 Lugano Blue GTS. Just arrived at the shipping company's warehouse but I am out of state. Gotta wait 1 more week to pick it up.
What do you guys think about the cayenne electric thats coming out
I was not too bothered by the digital cluster for the 922.2. And while the 922.1 features a beautiful analog tachometer in the center, it is flanked by two digital screens. In most driving positions, the fuel gauge on the far right is completely hidden behind the wheel, so to check the gas mileage or fuel level, most drivers would have to physically lean left or right to peek around it. It was one of my few
With the 992.2, bc the fully digital display is a single, uninterrupted screen, I can now fully customize the layout and shift the fuel gauge closer to the center, completely solving the blocked view issue.
What I do miss with the new 992.2 generation is that Porsche replaced the traditional left-sided twist knob (that paid homage to their historic Le Mans starts) with a modern push-button start. It's still on the left side of the steering column, but the physical turn is gone. I liked that tactical feel. And I felt like eliminating that tactical feature did not really offer any more convenience for the driver.
Oh, and I'm sure your Cayenne GTS is plenty fast enough. I can't even really enjoy the Turbo S to its maximum potential unless I take it to the track, and I tend to keep it under 90 mph around here. It sticks out like a sore thumb with regards to speeding tickets with police officers.
I do really appreciate the handling and the responsiveness, though, especially when I'm driving on the 405 in California or into LA. The rear-axle steering system dynamically alters how the car changes direction based my speed. At lower traffic speeds (under 31 mph), the rear wheels turn in the opposite direction of the fronts, effectively shortening the wheelbase so the car darts into tight spaces. At higher highway speeds, they turn in the same direction, allowing the car to smoothly glide sideways into the next lane with immense stability rather than feeling twitchy.
And as you mentioned, with the elimination of the turbo lag, when I press the accelerator to change lanes, the electric motor spins the compressor wheel instantly, delivering peak boost pressure before the exhaust gases have even built up.
Whenever I drive my wife's G63, I feel much less nimble, and I'm way more hesitant about changing and merging into and out of lanes. And the G63 has way more blind spots. The Turbo S really has none.
Thanks for the feedback on your experience with the V8 ICE brands. I'll definitely keep that in mind when we look for our next SUV.
Fugliest Cayenne in recent history. They really messed up with that design which is unfortunate as the turbo EV is effectively a super car that goes from 0-60 in 2.1 seconds in real world testing.
I much prefer the ICE looks of the Cayenne. I wouldn’t change a thing about it.
The rear wheel steering on the Cayenne is amazing. The staggered setup with 315/r22’ in the rear combined with the rear wheel steering exudes confidence. Super grippy and just a blast as you are entering the highway.
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You see the new iX5 coming out? I’m holding off on the M variant of that as we are wanting a full EV in the household. Looks to be interesting for a full EV.
Cayenne is still the better looker in the ICE variant.
2021-2023 Turbo S Cayenne have depreciated substantially and are a great bargain atm. Also easier to work on.
This. Being able to work half- or part-time hours completely changes the game, especially when you have hit 4-5M Liquid NW. Very little reason for you to pull the plug on working completely, in my opinion.
Liquids means 4-5 million in taxable brokerage or cash.
Most people net worth are tied to tax advantaged 401k or real estate.
Horses are one hobby where, by the deity of your choice, you better love and enjoy them or looking at the bills hits extremely hard.
I’ve got a cousin who will probably never hit escape velocity because of them. Married his horse girl high school sweetheart who has to have minimum 5 horses on the farm she made him buy. He’s some kind of mid-level consultant/sales guy. She’s never had a job. He doesn’t even ride. Brutal.
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Is she at least beautiful (still)? 😂
I agree with liquid not counting real estate but im not sure you can also say 401k for everyone i think the percentage matters.
If your 50/50 split in this 5m liquid example by the time say a late 40s person withdraws and eats up his brokerage he is likely passed the penalty phase or can do the rule of 72 and avoid the 10% penalty tax.
Naturally a 75/25, 80/20, or 90/10 is better skewed to taxable but you cant treat 401k like real estate imo.
horses, fast cars, and private jets never really did it for me. I think it helps to reach certain goals faster. But if its your jam then you gotta play the game maybe a bit longer. I try to imagine goals like being able to stay at lake como for 1 year straight in hotels and dining and affording it wihout too much trouble. That does it for my kicks.
I wish. Im just not wired to scale back till ive won the game. At 10 I could convince myself to go 3 days a week. At 15 maybe 1-2 work for fun thats game over territory. Lucky if you can mentally be ok with the 4-5 and half time. For me its too risky given the run we have had due for a major correction i wouldnt stomach that number being cut 30-40%. Also, im not talking if someone is over or mid 50s those numbers can be way less since a lot of life and expenses have already passed. Im talking about someone sub 50 calling it a day.
I am the same way. Put all those funds into a brokerage account and let it ride. Delayed satisfaction. Market doubling time has been about 7 years lately.
It’s not like you are eating Costco ramen every night (although they do have some great ramen!) 🙂
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