Job Market

[montypython]

I am a MS1 interested in entering in radiation oncology but I have been told by several recent graduates that the job market is deteriorating. I know of one person who finished his residency a few years ago from a NorCal program who can't find a full time position in NorCal or the state of CA all together. He said the field is too specialized and the demand far exceeds the supply unless you want work in North Dakota or some small town in Indiana or Alabama. I know I have a long way to go in regards of my education but I don't want to shoot for a specialty that offers few positions and is geographically limited. So for those of you recent grads or seasoned vets, can you comment on the current job market and the future of this field of medicine?

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[Gfunk6]

Nobody can predict the distant future, but at every single program that I have been to the seniors who are graduating in June have had NO problems finding jobs. Both in private pratice/academics.

True, if you restrict yourself to one particular state or geographic area then you will be in for a tougher time to be sure. But if you are flexible, you will have no problems. Also, RadOnc is quite sensitive to the job market and will not be afraid to cut slots if they perceive there will be a glut of physicians. In fact, the # of positions recently has expanded b/c the "doom and gloom" predictions failed to come to pass.

 

[stephew]

short version
late 1990's fear too many rad oncs and they shrunk residency program numbers
2000's- woops were wrong, not enough, expanding numbers.

 

[qwert]

who's "they" ?

short version
late 1990's fear too many rad oncs and they shrunk residency program numbers
2000's- woops were wrong, not enough, expanding numbers.

 

[Kara]

I have also heard from a number of residents on the interview trail that the job market (private/community) is really tough, if not near impossible, in certain areas (NorCal, Atlanta, DC), but also that it is tough across the board if you want to practice in or around any major metropolitan area. I heard that it becomes even more difficult if you hope to align a partnership track to buy into the machines. From those out there practicing, or applying for jobs, is this what you have found?

Any insightful advice for what specific qualities us residency applicants should look for in programs that will help out come time to apply for jobs?

Also, what major metropolitan areas around the US do not have a completely saturated market?

 

[stephew]

I have also heard from a number of residents on the interview trail that the job market (private/community) is really tough, if not near impossible, in certain areas (NorCal, Atlanta, DC), but also that it is tough across the board if you want to practice in or around any major metropolitan area. I heard that it becomes even more difficult if you hope to align a partnership track to buy into the machines. From those out there practicing, or applying for jobs, is this what you have found?

Any insightful advice for what specific qualities us residency applicants should look for in programs that will help out come time to apply for jobs?

Also, what major metropolitan areas around the US do not have a completely saturated market?

frankly im not so sure that its so saturated- i may really be a bit out of the loop but id encourage youre getting more feedback. I know in 2004 I had plenty of options and our grads did too. But again, things change year by year and I didnt focus on those specific regions.

 

[stephew]

who's "they" ?

"they" are those who say these things. There was a report (Sunshine et al??) in the red journal. Its been a while since i looked at it. But it was so worrying that many programs cut spots and one organization suggested even more extreme measures. But it turned out not to be the case; it wasnt just that that the measures worked- it was the assessment didnt appear to pan out and by the time I was a senior folks were scratching their heads as to "what happened".

 

[medgator]

Does any of the literature give "hard" numbers as to how many rad onc docs are needed in various parts of the country? Im sure there has to be something that they used as the basis for the recent expansion in residency slots.

 

[bobloblaw]

I am a MS1 interested in entering in radiation oncology but I have been told by several recent graduates that the job market is deteriorating. I know of one person who finished his residency a few years ago from a NorCal program who can't find a full time position in NorCal or the state of CA all together. He said the field is too specialized and the demand far exceeds the supply unless you want work in North Dakota or some small town in Indiana or Alabama. I know I have a long way to go in regards of my education but I don't want to shoot for a specialty that offers few positions and is geographically limited. So for those of you recent grads or seasoned vets, can you comment on the current job market and the future of this field of medicine?

It depends on location and timing. On the ASTRO website, there are several job listings in california and other "desirable" locations. However, many jobs are not listed and are discovered by word-of-mouth/networking (as in many other professions). It's impossible to predict what the job market will be like 9 years in the future (which is basically the timeline an MS1 is looking at). Probably the most useful thing to do would be to spend time in a radiation oncology department to see if the nature of the work is something that appeals to you and to make contacts with possible mentors/advisors. Right now, at least, it's extremely competitive to get into rad onc so it'd be worthwhile to start learning about the field sooner rather than later...

 

[JTradonc]

I heard a completely unsubstantiated rumor that there are currently 7 job openings available for every graduating resident. Has anyone else heard this? Can anyone trace the stat?

 

[medgator]

I had heard something similar for diagnostic radiology 3-4 years ago albeit on a smaller scale (like 3 to 1 or something). Certainly would be a nice position to be in if that were really the case.

 

[Kara]

I dont know. My experience may be wholly unrepresentative of reality, but I have pretty much heard from everybody I have spoken to that while getting a job in rad onc should not be a problem, getting a job in the location you want it is exceedingly difficult....especially if you want a partnership track. What are ways to improve your marketability? Obviously, I am sure that training locally to where you'd want to work serves as an advantage. How about having training experience with certain modalities and approaches (STS, STBS, brachy)? Thanks.

 

[stephew]

A LOT of jobs are not on the astro site. Many of the best academic ones too. By the list of job opps that come my way via email every week, it seems relatively open.

 

[RadioactiveMan]

A LOT of jobs are not on the astro site. Many of the best academic ones too. By the list of job opps that come my way via email every week, it seems relatively open.

I think this year it's been pretty open. It varies greatly from year to year due to the small size of the field. It only takes a few less jobs in any given year to make the competition much stiffer for any one job...the same way it is with residency programs.

The ASTRO website is probably one of the worst places to get a guage of what jobs are available. Again, due to the small size of the field, most good positions, particulary private practice positions are obtained through contacts. I know many private practices that simply call up the academic institutions where they have contacts and ask if there are any good residents graduating. They never advertise, and the job is filled before very many people know it's open. This is part of the reason it's quite valuable to go to a training program where there's a large built-in network. It's also very difficult to get a private practice job that's across the country from where you trained, since you are much less likely to have contacts in that region. This is less true for academic positions, although there is definitely and East Coast/West Coast division in the field.

Ultimately, much of where you end up is due to timing and luck. With the small size of the field, it's often difficult to get the exact job in the exact location that you want at the exact time you want it. If you're flexible to a certain degree, the job market is good. If not, then it's the luck of the draw.

 

[Kara]

Thank you for your insights about how things work on the other side. What I have heard across the country completely corroborates your perspective.

I think this year it's been pretty open. It varies greatly from year to year due to the small size of the field. It only takes a few less jobs in any given year to make the competition much stiffer for any one job...the same way it is with residency programs.

The ASTRO website is probably one of the worst places to get a guage of what jobs are available. Again, due to the small size of the field, most good positions, particulary private practice positions are obtained through contacts. I know many private practices that simply call up the academic institutions where they have contacts and ask if there are any good residents graduating. They never advertise, and the job is filled before very many people know it's open. This is part of the reason it's quite valuable to go to a training program where there's a large built-in network. It's also very difficult to get a private practice job that's across the country from where you trained, since you are much less likely to have contacts in that region. This is less true for academic positions, although there is definitely and East Coast/West Coast division in the field.

Ultimately, much of where you end up is due to timing and luck. With the small size of the field, it's often difficult to get the exact job in the exact location that you want at the exact time you want it. If you're flexible to a certain degree, the job market is good. If not, then it's the luck of the draw.