general dentist private practitioner salary

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
S

schen140

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Jan 23, 2010
Messages
299
Reaction score
10
Points
4,531
Location
CA
  1. Dentist
Members do not see this ad.
does anyone know whether there is accuracy to ADA's figure of a 200+ k average salary for general dentists who own their clinic?

i can't help but be skeptical at these numbers, when all the other websites show the average salary to be more in the 140-150k range. of course, i'm hoping i could be wrong. paying off loans would not be much of a problem at all if 200k is the salary norm
 
schen140 said:
does anyone know whether there is accuracy to ADA's figure of a 200+ k average salary for general dentists who own their clinic?

i can't help but be skeptical at these numbers, when all the other websites show the average salary to be more in the 140-150k range. of course, i'm hoping i could be wrong. paying off loans would not be much of a problem at all if 200k is the salary norm
Click to expand...
According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, the average dentist salary is about $147,000.
(Maybe some dentists can earn $200K+, but not all)
 
schen140 said:
does anyone know whether there is accuracy to ADA's figure of a 200+ k average salary for general dentists who own their clinic?

i can't help but be skeptical at these numbers, when all the other websites show the average salary to be more in the 140-150k range. of course, i'm hoping i could be wrong. paying off loans would not be much of a problem at all if 200k is the salary norm
Click to expand...

These figures are quite subjective. Owning a clinic is like running a business. It would generally take a couple of years to break even before thinking of making that 6 figure income. That's why cutting down the student loan as much as you can is always your best bet.
 
schen140 said:
does anyone know whether there is accuracy to ADA's figure of a 200+ k average salary for general dentists who own their clinic?

i can't help but be skeptical at these numbers, when all the other websites show the average salary to be more in the 140-150k range. of course, i'm hoping i could be wrong. paying off loans would not be much of a problem at all if 200k is the salary norm
Click to expand...

from my understanding the 140-150k amount is taken from people who are employed, like associates, teachers, etc and not from people who own their own practice.

from my own personal knowledge of private practitioner salary, which is just a couple people, it is reasonable to expect to make 200k+ as a general dentist.
 
A lot depends on where you decide to practice. And are we talking total production, or take-home? My Dad is a general dentist in a small community and there is no way he is coming close to that 200k in take-home. Maybe 200k net office profit, but if you guys expect to just start making 200k a few years after graduating, you are in for a rude awakening.
 
thanks for the input guys

i'm talking about dentists who own their clinics...so we're not talking recent d-school graduates, but those who have been out for 6-10 years and have become their own bosses. the ADA book stated that such practioners make upward of 200k on average, which is referring to net salary not gross

btw, does "private practioner" mean the same thing as "dentist who owns his clinic," or can it also refer to those who work as associates in the private clinic setting?
 
schulc76 said:
A lot depends on where you decide to practice. And are we talking total production, or take-home? My Dad is a general dentist in a small community and there is no way he is coming close to that 200k in take-home. Maybe 200k net office profit, but if you guys expect to just start making 200k a few years after graduating, you are in for a rude awakening.
Click to expand...

well, i mean it depends on your circumstances. most dentists aren't going to be moving back to rural areas. according to the ADA, a dentist who is 5-10 years out of dental school in his own practice can expect to make approximately 215k net a year. if you know of reasons why you might make more or less, you can factor them in.

i don't know how a practice could really function on 200k gross a year though unless he has no staff.
 
When you talk about dentist earning 140-150k (or more)... they are usually NOT talking about a young graduate. Most of those figures are for dentists who have been doing it for over 5 years.

As a brand new graduate (and If you don't have a close family member whos a dentist and willing to hire you at a great rate) you are lucky to land 120k

My sister is a dentist, and I know alot of her dentist friends as well, they have all been doing this for over 10+ years and all own thier own practices (some of them more than 1 practice). All of them are making 300-400k range
 
dentalWorks said:
When you talk about dentist earning 140-150k (or more)... they are usually NOT talking about a young graduate. Most of those figures are for dentists who have been doing it for over 5 years.

As a brand new graduate (and If you don't have a close family member whos a dentist and willing to hire you at a great rate) you are lucky to land 120k

My sister is a dentist, and I know alot of her dentist friends as well, they have all been doing this for over 10+ years and all own thier own practices (some of them more than 1 practice). All of them are making 300-400k range
Click to expand...

Are they all specialists or general dentists? What kind of setting are their practices in? Suburban, rural, small town etc?
thanks
 
is this 300-400k net income? or total income. What is their gross income. What are their working hours?
Thanks

dentalWorks said:
When you talk about dentist earning 140-150k (or more)... they are usually NOT talking about a young graduate. Most of those figures are for dentists who have been doing it for over 5 years.

As a brand new graduate (and If you don't have a close family member whos a dentist and willing to hire you at a great rate) you are lucky to land 120k

My sister is a dentist, and I know alot of her dentist friends as well, they have all been doing this for over 10+ years and all own thier own practices (some of them more than 1 practice). All of them are making 300-400k range
Click to expand...
 
bababooya said:
Are they all specialists or general dentists? What kind of setting are their practices in? Suburban, rural, small town etc?
thanks
Click to expand...
All GPs. Most of them are around the detroit area (sterling heights, troy, I think one of them just opened a new one in Rochester, and my sister's office is in detroit)

anonymouse1 said:
is this 300-400k net income? or total income. What is their gross income. What are their working hours?
Thanks
Click to expand...
I don't know... I only know what my sister is making. Her office does about 420k per year, and she has about 27% overhead, so... shes left with about 300k. She works about 35 hrs per week, 4 days a week.
 
Last edited:
schen140 said:
does anyone know whether there is accuracy to ADA's figure of a 200+ k average salary for general dentists who own their clinic?
Click to expand...

Check this thread out.... http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=792428 just posted last month from 2009

General Practice Dentists: $233,200
Periodontists: $279,540
Orthodontists: $290,200
Pediatric Dentists: $346,070
Endodontists: $366,340
OMFS: $516,260


Source: https://www.ada.org/sections/profess...fs/09_sdpi.pdf

Now, these numbers are self-reported and they include GP's that own all or part of their practices. They may be a little inflated, but they are the best source we have. If the BLS says 150K ish.... for salaried dentists, i don't think it is a stretch at all to say 200K is achievable.
 
UltimateHombre said:
Check this thread out.... http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=792428 just posted last month from 2009

General Practice Dentists: $233,200
Periodontists: $279,540
Orthodontists: $290,200
Pediatric Dentists: $346,070
Endodontists: $366,340
OMFS: $516,260


Source: https://www.ada.org/sections/profess...fs/09_sdpi.pdf

Now, these numbers are self-reported and they include GP's that own all or part of their practices. They may be a little inflated, but they are the best source we have. If the BLS says 150K ish.... for salaried dentists, i don't think it is a stretch at all to say 200K is achievable.
Click to expand...

There are good numbers, but they are NOT for the new graduate. These are more for people with 10+ years.
 
dentalWorks said:
As a brand new graduate (and If you don't have a close family member whos a dentist and willing to hire you at a great rate) you are lucky to land 120k
Click to expand...

that's a bit too pessimistic. 120k is about the minimum you should make fresh out of school.
 
notin said:
that's a bit too pessimistic. 120k is about the minimum you should make fresh out of school.
Click to expand...

Nope, actually from what I understand, the average for fresh-out-of-school graduates was 98K... 120K is 2-3 years after (as a dental associate). This was three years ago and sources were from the dental townie forum.
 
dentalWorks said:
When you talk about dentist earning 140-150k (or more)... they are usually NOT talking about a young graduate. Most of those figures are for dentists who have been doing it for over 5 years.

As a brand new graduate (and If you don't have a close family member whos a dentist and willing to hire you at a great rate) you are lucky to land 120k

My sister is a dentist, and I know alot of her dentist friends as well, they have all been doing this for over 10+ years and all own thier own practices (some of them more than 1 practice). All of them are making 300-400k range
Click to expand...


My close family members are going over 150k each for recent grads... + i dont think you can call yourself lucky if you land your self a 120k job... w/ comp sci alone you can get about 80-100k. Plus with a doctor degree come on dw...
 
peanutb123 said:
My close family members are going over 150k each for recent grads... + i dont think you can call yourself lucky if you land your self a 120k job... w/ comp sci alone you can get about 80-100k. Plus with a doctor degree come on dw...
Click to expand...

80-100k I.T professional is typical... but not straight out of college, and thats pretty much near maximium they'll earn once thier experience has built up.....5-10 later, they'll be lucky to pull 150k and not get laid off due to "over-qualification"

A newly graduate dentist, can easily get an associate job pulling 100-120k... 5-10 years later, they can more than double that.

I do agree that starting salary of a new dentist is location dependent, I've heard of new dentists making as low as 70-80k in NYC, while near detroit, my sister's first associate job back in 2000 was making about 150k.... BUT today's times are different, we are in a "recession", I do believe this has/will take its tole on salaries, and dentists are no exception.

I do hope Im wrong about this...
 
Which areas in general offer the highest paying jobs?

And when you say recent graduate, you mean graduates with no GRP or AEGD residency right?
 
dentalWorks said:
80-100k I.T professional is typical... but not straight out of college, and thats pretty much near maximium they'll earn once thier experience has built up.....5-10 later, they'll be lucky to pull 150k and not get laid off due to "over-qualification"

A newly graduate dentist, can easily get an associate job pulling 100-120k... 5-10 years later, they can more than double that.

I do agree that starting salary of a new dentist is location dependent, I've heard of new dentists making as low as 70-80k in NYC, while near detroit, my sister's first associate job back in 2000 was making about 150k.... BUT today's times are different, we are in a "recession", I do believe this has/will take its tole on salaries, and dentists are no exception.

I do hope Im wrong about this...
Click to expand...

lol...

the companies that i have worked for & working at... usually are in fortune 500 list. Every manager that I had made over 150k... But it takes a lot to get there.

See you are making very generalized statement of IT. while i do agree with the statement but there is so much more to it. I am not up for the debate. Not everyone is going to get laid off... but the problem with IT is it takes for ever to climb the chain, usually its not a pretty climb people stepping over each other.

and also problem is not people getting laid off b/c the people who do get laid off are the ones that are in lower level & easily replaceable... by the consulting companies. But there are some positions you wouldn't believe how much they get paid for very little knowledge that they posses. In my previous job, there is this position where anyone with min knowledge of that (x)(to hide identity) will be able to make easily 150/hr.

But yeah in my eyes, no offense but if dentistry was not making money i would not go into it... and through all the example that I see around me. I believe in my heart that it is possible for me to make good money without stepping over anyone.
 
peanutb123 said:
lol...

the companies that i have worked for & working at... usually are in fortune 500 list. Every manager that I had made over 150k... But it takes a lot to get there.

See you are making very generalized statement of IT. while i do agree with the statement but there is so much more to it. I am not up for the debate. Not everyone is going to get laid off... but the problem with IT is it takes for ever to climb the chain, usually its not a pretty climb people stepping over each other.

and also problem is not people getting laid off b/c the people who do get laid off are the ones that are in lower level & easily replaceable... by the consulting companies. But there are some positions you wouldn't believe how much they get paid for very little knowledge that they posses. In my previous job, there is this position where anyone with min knowledge of that (x)(to hide identity) will be able to make easily 150/hr.

But yeah in my eyes, no offense but if dentistry was not making money i would not go into it... and through all the example that I see around me. I believe in my heart that it is possible for me to make good money without stepping over anyone.
Click to expand...

well thats my point exactly.... Not every I.T profession can reach above 100-120k.....and pretty much EVERY dentist will go beyond 100-120k.... but the topic of debate is "when"

There is nothing wrong with picking a career JUST for the money (everyone has different motivations...right?). But I don't think people are underestanding what or how much money there is in dentistry esspecially when your a new graduate. When you have 300-400k of debt with (say) 6% interest, and you just got your new job pulling (say) 120k, THAT DEBT IS NOT TAX DEDUCTABLE, meaning you take the 120k, subtract 35% to uncle sam, and you are left with about 80k. Suppose the following:
-5 year repayment of 350k on 6% intest = 6800 per month or 81k per year (oops you just starved yourself and became homeless)
-10 year repayment of same = 3900 per month or 47000 per year (you are left with 33k for rent, food, and few essentials)
-15 year repayment of same = 3000 per month or 36k per year (okay this is more resonable, you get to keep 45k your first year as an associate)

So moral of the story is, you ain't gonna be living the riches your initial years in the profession, but eventually, you'll get there.
 
Can you spread student loan debt over 30 years (just as an initial repayment structure) then wait till you have a practice and pay it off with pretax dollars as a business expense? At which point you would become more aggressive in repayment.
 
The payments themselves aren't tax deductible, but the interest is I believe.
 
revoapparel said:
The payments themselves aren't tax deductible, but the interest is I believe.
Click to expand...

Munchy said:
yes revoapparel, I think that is what I heard as well.
Click to expand...

I read about this on the IRS website (can't find it now) and If I remember correctly... there are serious restrictions for this and it will not work for us.

This is only valid if your solo income is 70k or less per year (of if the combination of you and your spouse make less than 140k per year)..... For most of us, this will not be the case.
 
dentalWorks said:
I read about this on the IRS website (can't find it now) and If I remember correctly... there are serious restrictions for this and it will not work for us.

This is only valid if your solo income is 70k or less per year (of if the combination of you and your spouse make less than 140k per year)..... For most of us, this will not be the case.
Click to expand...

you are correct.
the figures are 75k for solo and 150K for couple on the MAGI (Modified adjusted gross income)
a maximum of 2500 is allowed to be deducted per year as of 2010.
the documnet can be found at www.irs.org under publication 970.
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-pdf/p970.pdf
 
Last edited:
The numbers are a bit skewed, I'm sure. Of course dentists who make tons of money want to report that to someone, anyone. "Look at me, I'm awesome." The people making $115,000 are less likely to flaunt it.
 
It depends on a number of things, where you live, how busy of a practice and a whole lot more.
If your a dentist in alabama, im sorry but you wont be making as much as a dentist in new york.
Cost of living is 1/5th the price, and the people your charging are making a hell of a lot less. You might be making 120k a year in Alabama, but you can be making 250k a yearin New York, however in the end they all end to be the same until your making about 300-400k +++ a year in which case its becasue your an exceptional dentist.
 
Impulse155 said:
It depends on a number of things, where you live, how busy of a practice and a whole lot more.
If your a dentist in alabama, im sorry but you wont be making as much as a dentist in new york.
Cost of living is 1/5th the price, and the people your charging are making a hell of a lot less. You might be making 120k a year in Alabama, but you can be making 250k a yearin New York, however in the end they all end to be the same until your making about 300-400k +++ a year in which case its becasue your an exceptional dentist.
Click to expand...

You know if you are a dermatologist, you can be making 200k a year if you are working at a hospital or 700k a year if you are a surgical dermatologist with a private practice. also, this neuro-surgeon, black hills surgical center in iowa (again a private practice surgical center), he owns 6 private airplanes..

It can be quite confusing to talk at one point about the expected, median income and then suddenly about the potential income. If we look at the median income nationally or the median income in New York , it is much lower than 250k especially if you are talking about starting salary. you go to any dental forum or classified ad, you can expect about $500 per day (~120K?) or 20-35% production (I forget if it's collection or production...)...and whichever is higher usually...
 
Last edited:
johnr43210 said:
You know if you are a dermatologist, you can be making 200k a year if you are working at a hospital or 700k a year if you are a surgical dermatologist with a private practice. also, this neuro-surgeon, black hills surgical center in iowa (again a private practice surgical center), he owns 6 private airplanes..

It can be quite confusing to talk at one point about the expected, median income and then suddenly about the potential income. If we look at the median income nationally or the median income in New York , it is much lower than 250k especially if you are talking about starting salary. you go to any dental forum or classified ad, you can expect about $500 per day (~120K?) or 20-35% production (I forget if it's collection or production...)...and whichever is higher usually...
Click to expand...

$500 per day working for someone else is quite typically heard of.
 
LuxorSt1 said:
$500 per day working for someone else is quite typically heard of.
Click to expand...

500 a day for 5 days a week is good money. Assuming you work ALL 52 weeks of the year, thats 130k.

Of course, 1-2 years latter, you'll switch jobs to a more comfortable associateship where you'll collect 30-35% of production, thats when you "should" hit 140k+
 
dentalWorks said:
All GPs. Most of them are around the detroit area (sterling heights, troy, I think one of them just opened a new one in Rochester, and my sister's office is in detroit)


I don't know... I only know what my sister is making. Her office does about 420k per year, and she has about 27% overhead, so... shes left with about 300k. She works about 35 hrs per week, 4 days a week.
Click to expand...

27% overhead? You're kidding me. Can you please tell me your sister's secret?? Is she just extracting teeth all day?

Hup
 
HupHolland said:
27% overhead? You're kidding me. Can you please tell me your sister's secret?? Is she just extracting teeth all day?

Hup
Click to expand...

I dunno if there is a "secret" involved, but she is very active. 3 assistants and 1 receptionist who also does the billing, and from time to time, can also work as an assistant. She does not hire "extra" help at all, not even hygienists, she does all the dental and office-management works herself down to the most basic stuffs like ordering office supplies.

Her office land is owned by her, so she doesn't have any rent. The office was built back in 2008 from scratch. 2200 sq feet (I think), 5 rooms, but only 3 are operational (when she gets more busy, she'll open the other 2 ~ maybe when I graduate 😀)....
 
Oracle DMD said:
I agree, something sounds off about this.:eyebrow: A 40% overhead would be super sweet, so 27% sounds artificial.
Click to expand...

I hope your not implying Im making this up... she involves me with her bookings, I know what shes making, 27% is not "artificial", its real.
 
dentalWorks said:
I hope your not implying Im making this up... she involves me with her bookings, I know what shes making, 27% is not "artificial", its real.
Click to expand...

Of course I'm not implying that you're making this up, but I am not confident that 27% is a true figure representing any dental practice overhead. However, regardless of the accuracy of this particular situation, under 40% overhead is superb in my book. 👍
 
I'd love to comment more, but seeing as I don't own a practice makes me not-so credible in the subject 🙄

But really, you think 27% is too low even for a small operation like hers?
 
dentalWorks said:
I'd love to comment more, but seeing as I don't own a practice makes me not-so credible in the subject 🙄

But really, you think 27% is too low even for a small operation like hers?
Click to expand...

I know its hard to establish credibility on internet, but man it would be damn sweet if i can get my overhead to to around that number.
 
dentalWorks said:
I'd love to comment more, but seeing as I don't own a practice makes me not-so credible in the subject 🙄

But really, you think 27% is too low even for a small operation like hers?
Click to expand...

You said she grossed $420k and 27% overhead? That is $113,400. Out of that she paid for 4 staff, 6% supplies (roughly $24,000) and lab??? No way!
 
charger fan said:
You said she grossed $420k and 27% overhead? That is $113,400. Out of that she paid for 4 staff, 6% supplies (roughly $24,000) and lab??? No way!
Click to expand...

4 staff, 3 are part-time. Her highest earning employee is the receptionist, I think 13/hr. Total she paid all of them last year was 50k

The lab fees aren't as much... they usually don't exceeded $1000 a month, actually, many of her months were between 700-1000 unless she gets an ortho case, then obviously its more.... but she doesn't get many ortho cases. I think 1 new case every 2-3 months

The supplies is where she spends approx 2000 a month

She sees about 20 patients a day, 4 days a week.

these numbers are for last year, theyr off top of my head but theyr pretty accurate if memory serves.
 
dentalWorks said:
4 staff, 3 are part-time. Her highest earning employee is the receptionist, I think 13/hr. Total she paid all of them last year was 50k

The lab fees aren't as much... they usually don't exceeded $1000 a month, actually, many of her months were between 700-1000 unless she gets an ortho case, then obviously its more.... but she doesn't get many ortho cases. I think 1 new case every 2-3 months

The supplies is where she spends approx 2000 a month

She sees about 20 patients a day, 4 days a week.

these numbers are for last year, theyr off top of my head but theyr pretty accurate if memory serves.
Click to expand...


Here are some of the costs that go into owning and operating a dental office. I hope this might shed some light on the true overhead of any dental office. This list is not meant to be all inclusive but a general snapshot:

staff salaries
temporary staffing
payroll taxes
employee benefits
professional supplies
laboratory expenses
accountant fees
legal fees
advertising
collection expenses
communications
professional dues and subscriptions
equipment financing or rent
insurance
laundry and uniforms
office expenses
other taxes
professional services (IT, interior design, plumbing, landscaping, etc)
software fees
building expenses
maintenance and repairs
utilities
travel
 
Oracle DMD said:
Here are some of the costs that go into owning and operating a dental office. I hope this might shed some light on the true overhead of any dental office. This list is not meant to be all inclusive but a general snapshot:

staff salaries
temporary staffing
payroll taxes
employee benefits
professional supplies
laboratory expenses
accountant fees
legal fees
advertising
collection expenses
communications
professional dues and subscriptions
equipment financing or rent
insurance
laundry and uniforms
office expenses
other taxes
professional services (IT, interior design, plumbing, landscaping, etc)
software fees
building expenses
maintenance and repairs
utilities
travel
Click to expand...

You forgot one,
Occasional break-ins 😀
 
dentalWorks said:
4 staff, 3 are part-time. Her highest earning employee is the receptionist, I think 13/hr. Total she paid all of them last year was 50k

The lab fees aren't as much... they usually don't exceeded $1000 a month, actually, many of her months were between 700-1000 unless she gets an ortho case, then obviously its more.... but she doesn't get many ortho cases. I think 1 new case every 2-3 months

The supplies is where she spends approx 2000 a month

She sees about 20 patients a day, 4 days a week.

these numbers are for last year, theyr off top of my head but theyr pretty accurate if memory serves.
Click to expand...

With a lab bill that low, and 20 patients a day, she doesn't sound like a GP (or at least, a traditional GP). Is she a pedodontist/seeing primarily pedo? Because that's significant in terms of overhead.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Mr.Smile12
San Antonio dentist: a debt repayment story
Replies
5
Views
1K
askadds
A
T
Can private dentists have good work-life balance?
Replies
7
Views
4K
Pablo Sanchez
Pablo Sanchez
kashyranz
new grad dentist $450k/yr living in Miami - AMA
Replies
21
Views
7K
SigmaFS
S
K
Healthcare profession changing career to become a dentist
Replies
5
Views
2K
Big Time Hoosier
Big Time Hoosier
F
Dentist vs Travel Nurse
Replies
11
Views
4K
DS2027
D
Top Bottom