Medical School Admissions: How can I improve my chances?

Doodledog · Apr 27, 2007

scblues01 said:
Hi,

1) Would schools know and hold it against me that I'd been accepted previously and turned the offer down to reapply? Does it come across as vain to want to attend the best school possible?

I was accepted to a medical school this year, but am hesitant to attend. Would it be held against me in the application process next year if I opted to reapply with the hope of gaining entrance to a better school?

This theme is common on SDN and has produced fierce debates and lots of anecdotal stories. When one asks what "Schools" would "hold against" you, they can be referring either to adminstrators such as deans who make final admissions decisions in many places, or individuals who read your application and interview you and provide evaluations to the committees or deans who make decisions.

My comments only address the latter and as always, reflect only my perspective.

Simply put, if I were to be aware of someone who had turned down an admission to a US medical school (allopathic OR osteopathic) and was now applying for admission the next year to my research-oriented highly rated allopathic school, I would try to find out the reason they didn't take the acceptance. If there was a strong personal reason (ill parent, spouse got accepted to another school, had a baby, personal health reasons that had changed, etc), I would probably take it into account but would not have it represent a major aspect of my evaluation in either direction. In other words, I'd ignore the previous acceptance.

However, if it was for reasons related to the school - the perspective that they were trying to "move up" and get into a school that was "higher" ranked, I would think that they had a poor understanding and committment to medicine and had unnecessarily wasted a school's efforts in accepting them the previous year.

If I was interviewing them, we would have a nice talk about medicine and life. Then I would give them a very low interview score based on immaturity and lack of understanding of medical education. I wouldn't attempt to blackball them, I would accept that others might override my view and I wouldn't dislike the applicant in any way. I would prefer to grant my higher interview scores to those who hadn't turned down a previous acceptance the year beforehand.

Sorry, this isn't what many here want to hear, but it is what I would do.

Madame · Apr 27, 2007

Dr. Josh said:
Retaking the chem courses will have a minimal effect on overall gpa except on DO school applications. The gpa, to me, is a bigger stumbling block than the individual grades. What might fly at some schools won't fly with my adcom (upper tier school) so it is hard to judge how the undergrad/SMP application is going to look to some of the schools where you might send your application. I guess this is why we've taken so long to respond to your query.😳

Click to expand...

Madame, since you are an adcom at an upper tier school, do you think other lower tier schools would be more accepting of applicants taking pre-reqs at CCs near their home in an effort to save money? No other adcoms have made the picture seem so bleak.

I'm not sure how your question relates to the earlier response that you've quoted. The person to whom I was responding had grades of C in three Chemistry courses (quarter system maybe?). He wanted to know if retaking the Chem courses while enrolled in an SMP would be helpful. What's that got to do with CC?

SpongeBobDrPants has just answered a question from a UPenn student taking a course at Villanova in order to save money. My answer to that poster might have been a little more cautionary. Perhaps different adcoms do have different thresholds ... however, in your case, Dr.Josh, if you've taken the course at a CC you need to hope for the best and move on.

Madame · Apr 27, 2007

budhia said:
Please advice how to best satisfy my biology requirements.

I am a US citizen. I have a BS Biology major and Chemistry minor (from a non US non canadian univeristy). I have a MS Biology (Cell, Molecular and Genetics concentration) from US university. I have successfully completed the PhD coursework for a PhD Immunology at a US university. I taught General Biology for one year (when I was a graduate student).

I have worked for several years in biomedical research at both academic and industry labs (have about 8 publications).

I have always wanted to be a doctor. Didn't actively pursue getting into medical school for several reasons (lack of confidence, direction and opportunity).

Now that I have some confidence, direction and opportunity I am getting prepared to apply next year.

I went back to school for medical school requirements. I've taken Physics, General Chemistry (I), Organic Chemistry (I). I am now taking General Chemistry (II) and Organic Chemistry (II). Over the next year I plan on taking Calculus, English and 20 credits worth of humanities.

About my Biology requirements I was thinking about testing out for
General Biology (via CLEP), Cell Biology, Molecular Biology, Genetics, Biochemistry and Immunology (department test out). These are all classes that I have taken during my undergraduate degree (foreign university) and again at Masters or Phd level (at US university). Testing out gives only credit for these courses, no grades would be associated. Would this be acceptable for meeting my biology requirements?

Please advise!

Check with at least a few medical schools that you have under consideration. I suspect that the coursework you took for the MS in biology will count toward the 1 year of modern biology. Do check with the Admissions office of a couple of schools.

Madame · Apr 28, 2007

NexusMD said:
Hello!

I am currently a sophmore information systems/microbiology Double Major. I am debating whether to apply to med school right out of college or to work for a few years in IS. I have some reasons to do this.
#1 is to atleast make some money and work a real job.
#2 is to marry my fiance and give us some income b4 she starts working.

I am trying to decide whether it is best to apply straight out of college. It seems that if I did that it might be easier in the long haul (saving 2 years of my life), but I am not sure if those 2 years would be that big of a difference maker.

My question to you is whether I should wait 2 years or apply right away? How would med schools look at either of these decisions? And how would they help/hurt my chances of getting in?

Thanks for your help!

Take the MCAT next Spring while everything is fresh in your mind. The test scores are good for a few years so there's no harm done if you decide after taking them that you don't want to apply right away. It also gives you a second chance (retake) down the road if you decide you need to. This time next year, revisit the question of working vs. going straight through. You might apply to med schools with the understanding that if you get in you will go. Meanwhile, you could also be applying for IS jobs as a back up in case you wind up empty handed at the end of that first application cycle.

Most applicants, it appears, are college seniors. I suspect that the majority of matriculants at most (if not all) schools are going straight through. That said, having a few years of real world experience is almost always helpful and seen by the adcom as a positive attribute.

Doodledog · Apr 29, 2007

t8604 said:
Dear Mentors,

I've read your posts, and thank you for your great insights into the med school admission process. I was hoping that you could give me some personalized advice on admissions in a non-traditional route in medicine that I want to pursue.

I am double majoring in Chemical Engineering and Biology at a top engineering school, and my GPA is 3.8/4.0. I have had many and varied experiences in medical devices, pharma, and biotech, in Fortune 500 companies, academia, and a start-up. I am also taking several classes at the med program and business school, mostly in future medical technologies, healthcare economics, and entrepreneurship. I will be working with a healthcare consulting firm this summer on launch strategies and sales force alignment.

I would like to matriculate into an MD/MBA program to gain a background in business so that I can eventually start my own medical device company. My first priority is to practice medicine, ideally in a surgical specialty, because I love to help people directly, and I know I would learn how to improve/design devices best by hands-on work in the field. I definetely want to practice medicine, and even though surgery is a time-consuming and demanding field, I am not happy unless I am very busy and engaged in multidisciplinary challenges. From taking classes with MBA's at the business school as an undergraduate, I know that obtaining the MBA would be an invaluable experience for my future goals because of the networking opportunities and the practical classes in launching products, gaining funding, and handling finances.

I am planning on taking my GMAT this summer, and I took my MCATs last summer. I am about 1 point lower than the averages for the medical schools that I want to go to, which are generally schools in the top 15, but I am not sure that I have time to retake the exam. I took it with only 1 semester of general biology, so my Biological Sciences score will likely increase because I have now taken biochem, genetics, biology lab, and cell bio. I know that scores aren't everything in a med school application, but I don't want an exam score that I can improve to keep me out of a school that I love. I would like to hear your suggestions.

I was also hoping that you could give me some insight into how I should frame my medical school application. I am very interested in practicing, and I have had some clinical experiences (premed summer program, extracurricular activity on helping students with colds, cuts, and minor medical ailments). I am afraid that my industry/business experiences are going to overshadow my interests in clinical medicine, though, and hurt my admissions. I would appreciate any advice that you have in framing my application so this doesn't happen.

Thank you so much for your help, and I look forward to your reply.

Well, as a chemical engineering major who switched at the last minute to biology for his degree (I'd already been admitted to med school and didn't need the last class for a double major...) and currently does research entirely engineering-related, I thought I should respond.😛

I think from what you've written above, you'll have no problem honestly crafting your essays and doing well with the process. A few minor things:

1. Try to develop the aspect that indicates real experience with patients and a desire to work with patients. Sometimes, that can be hard to identify in applicants like you. It can depend on who is interviweing you, so try to clue into how it appears that they feel about engineers and engineering in medicine. If it seems from some of the questions that they are concerned that you're too "techie", give them a story....Practice this part of interviewing, including facing "hostile" questions about your background. Answer clearly and make a case for engineering in medicine as well as show a compassionate side and you'll win over the skeptics.

2. Decrease the emphasis on surgery. Lots of device work has nothing to do with surgery these days (think interventional radiology, cardiology, intensive care medicine, etc, etc). Be open at this stage to developing "devices" not just for use by surgeons.

3. As always, consider applying broadly - not just "top 15". Getting an MD is what matters. You can get the further education and experiences you want in many ways afterwards. I graduated from a "state" medical school and have never ever felt limited in applying engineering principles and practices to the research I do.

Good luck!

SpongeBobDrPants · Apr 30, 2007

ajtrau said:
Mentors,

I have enjoyed reading your advice so far but now could use some of my own!

I have a BS from a top state school with a GPA of 3.5 and a science GPA of about 3.3. I took the MCAT a couple of years ago and scored a 29M. Throughout college and in the two years since I graduated I have had a wide variety of extracurricular experiences including clinical and non-clinical volunteer work, clinical shadowing, medical research, honor society leadership, sports participation as well as full-time employment as a medical assistant in the ER of a level one trauma center. This is my third time applying to medical school and this year I applied to 20 schools, interviewed at three but have not been accepted anywhere. As my frustration level grows I am now trying to decide if it's worth it to apply again. What are my chances given my scores? Do I need to start looking into DO programs or caribbean medical schools?

Thanks so much!

Has anything changed in your application since the last time you applied? Your EC activities sound pretty good. I think the problem is in your GPA --- specifically the 3.3 in science. What was your breakdown on the MCAT? Since you have a 3.3 in science, adcoms will want to see high science MCAT scores to compensate. If you do decide to reapply, you should apply to more than 20 schools!

Madame · Apr 30, 2007

Kate6058 said:
Hello again. I find this thread to be extremely helpful to someone like me who is hard at work on the academic side of the application process but still has some questions about the art of applying. So thanks for answering my questions so far... and here's another:

Relating to Jatt's post - I come from the other side of baseball. My "first career" was working behind the scenes for ESPN MLB games and the Boston Red Sox in television. I'd like to know how this sort of thing is presented on an application. Do you write about this in the personal statement or simply list it as job history? I don't know if this will positively set me apart at all (I think it's an interesting place to come to medicine from), but if it could help, does it do so simply by being listed on my application?

I'm also wondering about cumulative GPA versus science GPA. Which is more important, or which one is factored in to complement your MCAT score? If I end up with a high science GPA but my cum GPA is around 3.2 or 3.3, how is that viewed?

Thanks again!

List the TV jobs in your experience section. In your PS, you might work something about this work (what attracted you to it, why you chose to leave, the skills you think might be transferrable -- team work, thinking on your feet, etc) before moving on to "why medicine" and your career goals and/or journey from TV sports programming to medicine.

A high science gpa is important. Coupled with a poor overall gpa tells me that you didn't do so well in some of the general ed requirements or that something else was going on. I might look at your grades one by one to see if there is a pattern (a bad semester) or if particular school requirements (theology & philososphy, perhaps?) killed your gpa, or if there are clues suggesting language difficulties (in which case I'd also look at the MCAT verbal and writing scores).

Doodledog · May 2, 2007

googlinggoogler said:
My question is regarding personal statements.
I don't understand what should be included in the personal statement. I have written one about my experience in the hospital as a technician assistant. It talks about how much I love my work, how much the patients inspire me, etc. But it does not talk about my 2 publications or anything about research. I do not plan on applying to MD/phD, but I do plan on applying to research intensive schools. I wrote my essay this way because I thought it would be a more interesting read, and if there is one thing I want to express, it is the feeling of excitement and contentment from working in a clinical setting. My research advisor read it and told me it was a beautiful story, but because it doesn't talk about research or my other experiences (it focuses solely on my clinical experiences), it doesn't have enough concrete content.

So, is it more important to write an entertaining story that may have only one point, but to drive that point in hard? Or is it better to include my research experiences, which may take away from the asthetic aspects of my essay? Thanks!

You wrote an essay for medical school about your experiences, left out all your research experiences, then handed it to your research advisor and are suprised they didn't like it?

Personally, I can handle multi-themed essays and I don't much care about the aesthetic aspects of the essays. You could leave it the way it is and save the research stuff for secondaries. However, personally, I'd redraft it and try to put both in your primary essay. I bet you can make it nice. Then your research advisor will like it because they'll think they were important to you!

Doodledog · May 2, 2007

shevie said:
hi i keep submitting a post (like 4 times since 4/24) to the moderators of this forum asking for advice, and no one is answering. im new to sdn, but am i going about this wrong? or does it just take time? thanks

Sorry, but as noted in the introductory threads and elswhere, we get a lot of questions and each mentor answers questions they think they can answer and that they wish to respond to related to the question's content and generalizability. The types of questions I will consider answering are described in my first post on this thread. Lack of response indicates that none of the mentors felt they could provide an answer to your question in this setting, not that it wasn't received or was a "bad" or improperly asked question. I recommend that anyone who doesn't get an answer within 4-5 days consider reposting their question in pre-allo or another forum.

SpongeBobDrPants · May 3, 2007

bbunt12 said:
Hello I am currently a full time specialty tech in a level 3 trauma center as well as a full time student. I was curious about how much impact clinical hours really have on an application. By the time I apply for medical school (may 2008) I will have over 4,000 clinical hours and around 2,000 shadowing hours of physicians with several different specilaties. I am a liscensed phlebotimist and conduct EKGs with surgery experience. Will this much experience boost an application with sub par gpa? (3.47)

That will look excellent. It shows commitment and that you "know what you're getting into." I don't know that it will completely make up for your GPA --- but it certainly strengthens your application. A good score on the MCAT, combined with your clinical experience, will make you a solid applicant. Good luck!

Madame · May 3, 2007

googlinggoogler said:
Hi, I have another question for the adcomms. I graduated from college last year (May 2006) and asked all of my professors for letters of recommendations (they were sent to a letter file service which holds them for me until I need them). I had originally planned on applying last year, but for personal reasons, am applying this year instead. Is it necessary for me to ask my professors to update their letters? My profile does not look that different between last year and this year, but a friend of mine told me that medschools will want updated letters (at least the date on the letter has to be changed if nothing else is). Is that true?

And thank you for answering questions for those of us that are unfamiliar with the application process.

You do NOT need new letters. The ones from last year are fine. You might add a fresh letter from an employer or someone who can talk about your major activity of the past year.

Madame · May 3, 2007

Dr. Josh said:
Hi there! I have two questions.

1. Do you recommend applying early decision if you are pretty much average for the school? Would it put you at an extreme disadvantage when applying to other schools after Oct 1? Also can you apply early decision to one school each of allopathic and osteopathic, or only one altogether?

The only reason I can see to apply early decision is if you are "so good" that you are a slam-dunk for admission there and you love the school and would be delighted to be there.

If you are "average" for the school you are, in all likelihood, not a slam-dunk for admission. Furthermore, if you don't get admitted you will be "late" for the rest of the schools on your list and you'll have a harder time getting interviews than you might have had if you had sent your applications to those schools in July.

2. Is it required to have a pre-med committee letter when they don't even know you; or is it better to hve individual professors who know you really well to write separate letters? Can a professor send the letter to the committee to write a letter from multiple professors and then submit their own letter as well?

Most pre-med committees want to get to know you and will schedule a meeting with you sometime in the Spring before you apply.

Schools have different approaches to this process. Some append the other LORs to the committee letter with no comment about the content of those other LORs. Others quote liberally from the LORs and append them. Some retype every LOR within the body of the committee letter. Some use a form that accompanies each LOR with check boxes classifying your attribute.

If your school has a large pre-med population and a long standing pre-med office, the medical schools are going to know what to expect when it comes to a LOR from your school. If you don't have one of those letters, eyebrows will be raised. Many adcoms come to know & trust the judgement of the pre-med committees of certain schools and 👍 or 👎 from the pre-med committee holds considerable weight.

Madame · May 4, 2007

Dr.D-man said:
I need some advice. I have been seriously considering applying through the early decision program at MSU-CHM. I want to go to this school far more than any other school. This is mainly because my wife's family lives in Grand Rapids and I could spend years 2-4 there. Having family nearby is really going to be important when we start to have kids.

I will be ready to submit my application on June 1st, so I am not sure if I should commit myself to one school since I will be applying so early. I know the 7 in VR will hurt me big time at a lot of schools, but since I took the MCAT I have taken some philosophy classes (one being critical reasoning) and gotten As. Hopefully that would alleviate some concern. I also have written a pretty darn good personal statement and have people that will definitely write me some really good letters of recommendation. All of my information is on my MDApps profile.

Could someone give me some advice? I am really on the fence here.

If you are willing to make this a 2 year process as your mdapplicants profile indicates, then go ahead and do as you plan. Frankly, given your low verbal & writing scores, I'd suggest that you plan on preparing for & retaking the MCAT in preparation for applying broadly in 2008 if things don't work out in the coming cycle.Frankly, I think that with your stats you should apply broadly the first time out or sit out the year and apply early and broady in 2008. If you have the time and money to spare, do a half-way job this year but with the realization that it is a crap-shoot.

Madame · May 4, 2007

curious3637 said:
Thank you in advance for this forum and advice. My son is going to apply to medical school (I'm not trying to make his decision for him, however, I'd like to have an educated answer if he asks for my opinion again). He is completing his junior year at a competitive (not ivy) liberal arts school-biochemistry major/non-science minor gpa for both 3.45-3.5 range. He saw three science c's last year but has bounced back. He shadowed several doctors last year, is a lab TA this year and is active in two other clubs at school x several years, he will be doing lab work this summer and is hoping to get a nurse's aide position. He has had a part-time non medical job all through school. He was planning to apply this year but now is worried that his gpa is too low. He is taking the MCAT in May. Would you advise him to wait a year- considering the gpa and the fact that he won't know his MCAT score until mid June?

I'd suggest that he have the AMCAS completed but not submitted. If his MCAT is >34 with no section less than 10, he may have a good shot if he applies broadly and can pull the trigger at that point without being too late. (He's a pretty average candidate except for the gpa and the string of Cs which puts him at a slight disadvantage). If he hasn't had any clinical experience except the hoped for nurse's aide job, then he should - without a doubt - wait a year until he can submit an application with some evidence of clinical experience/exposure.

If the MCAT is not in the top 10-15 percentile then he should think about either retaking the MCAT and/or doing additional undergrad or graduate work aimed at proving himself academically in the hard sciences.

Madame · May 4, 2007

majs87 said:
hey
i was just wondering..what would be a good answer to "why do u want to be a doctor" q, besides the standard "love-working-w/people-love-science-etc" anss...??

The best answer is the truth. Why do you want to be a doctor? Why do you want to enter the profession of medicine? What draws you to medicine? What to you hope to accomplish as a physician? Why do you want to do this?

Madame · May 5, 2007

snowy117 said:
Hello..
I would like to thank you in advance for reading my post and hopefully replying to it...
I entered undergrad. as a pre-med, but graduated as undecided between medicine and dentistry. So I decided to just apply to medical schools at the last minute and got rejected (undergrad. GPA ~3.4 Science GPA ~3.2 MCAT 27). So, thinking that maybe medicine isn't for me, I applied to dental schools. While doing this, I realized that I better try out dentistry by shadowing a dentist, so I did at a local dental office (2 DDS, 2 hygienists, 1 Ortho) and even assisted to find out that Dentistry is NOT for me.
So now, I'm planning to get an MS and reapply to med. schools, because after debating between the two for years, I believe I have finally found what I want to do with my life...
But will this hurt my chances of getting in? Since I applied to dental schools before, will med. school adcoms look down on this?

No and no.

If so, how can I convince them that I really do want to pursue medicine?

Thank you.

That is always the hard question-- how do you write a PS that explains your journey to medicine....

Madame · May 5, 2007

pezzang said:
Hi,

What do adcoms look for in the recs from science professors? Most science classes are lecture-based and so there isn't much interaction between student body and professors. Most of personal stuff is in recs from research mentors and doctors (shadow/voluteer).

Faculty will sometimes comment about students' visits to "office hours", performance on quizes and tests, class rank at the mid-term and final (perhaps the student had a B+ at the midterm and worked very hard to bring the grade up to A-), and commentary about behavior in the lab (sometimes based on information obtained from the lab TA).

It isn't so much the personal stuff that the adcom might be looking for so much as academic initiative, integrity, curiosity, classroom behavior.

SpongeBobDrPants · May 6, 2007

enigma85 said:
Wow, what a great forum! I have a question about choosing schools to apply to. I have a 3.5 cumulative GPA from a top 10 school, 3.4 science GPA, strong upward GPA trend, balanced 38R MCAT, non-URM, and a good mix of clinical and service experiences. What do you think is a good number of schools to apply to? I know many people recommend 15-20, but with my below average GPA, I think this may be too low. Also, do you think I would be competitive at "Top 20" schools? Or should I stick to "mid-tier" and "lower-tier" schools? I don't think there are many applicants with my combination of GPA/MCAT so I'm a bit scared that top schools will look unfavorably at my application due to my GPA and "safety" schools may pass me up after looking at my MCAT. Any advice? Thanks in advance.

The GPA is a little low, but your MCAT score partly makes up for it. You'll be competitive at some top 20 schools, but definitely apply to a broad range. The number of schools you should apply to kind of depends on what state you're from (i.e., CA vs. TX). 20-ish is a good number of schools, but if you'd feel more comfortable applying to more, you should do it for your own sanity. 🙂 Good luck.

SpongeBobDrPants · May 6, 2007

sharukhl said:
I am currently a 4th year undergrad at UCLA (3.78 GPA, 35R (10V, 12P, 13B) Biology Major, Political Science Minor) and I am unsure where to apply to med school outside of California.

California has wonderful schools, but I've been told repeatedly to never rely on getting accepted in CA. I've never lived outside of CA, and although some places sound cool to me, I don't know where I should really apply. I don't want to just apply to a bunch of top schools and get rejected by them all. How do I pick some out of state schools (likely private since state schools rarely want out of staters)?

Also, I have a 3.779 right now, but after this quarter is done I'll likely have a 3.798. It's not worth it to wait a month to turn in my app to gain a few gpa points, right?

And lastly (sorry i'm asking so many questions) I don't have a lot of different extra curricular activities, but those I did do I was very involved in (both clinical work and working in a research lab). Will admissions committees be okay with me not having a wide variety of experiences as long as those I engaged in were meaningful?

Thanks!

Hey sharukhl,

It might be a good idea to buy the US News Ultimate Guide to Medical School. This will be very helpful for you --- it shows the number of students who apply, are interviewed, and are accepted to each medical school. This way, you can see which schools accept the most out-of-state applicants. You can probably get it at Barnes and Noble. It's a good investment.

No, it's not worth it to delay your application to raise your GPA. Your GPA is good, and such a small change will not make a difference to medical schools.

Quality is better than quantity, when it comes to ECs. The big thing is that medical schools want to see that you've had good clinical exposure (volunteering at a hospital or clinic, shadowing, etc.).

Good luck! Sounds like you have a solid application.

Madame · May 6, 2007

jmart said:
My cum is a 3.26 and I have yet to take the mcat. I'm supposed to take it at the end of May but I don't think that that will happen. I'm thinking of pushing it back to mid July which means I won't get my scores back until mid august. For a weaker candidate in terms of stats is that too late to apply in the cycle. If not, should I submit my app asap and have them just wait on my mcat scores, or will they literally do nthing with it until they get them back so it doesn't matter if I submit it June first or the day I get my scroes back?

Nothing will happen with your application at the medical school level until the MCAT scores are added to it. However, having your transcripts verified by AMCAS does take time and you could be having that done while you wait for the MCAT. On the other hand, if there is any chance that you might not apply after you see your MCAT scores, you might want to be very conservative with respect to how much money to put into your AMCAS application until after you have your MCAT in hand.

Madame · May 7, 2007

midn said:
<snip> I will be 20 when I graduate and will be 21 by the time I matriculate (if I do). I have absolutely no desire to take an extra year of school since that would put me up to six years of college nor do I want to take a "break" from school for a year. I will be graduating comfortably and actually delayed my graduation by a year since I attempted ROTC.

The distinction of maturity seems ambiguous to me since I do not see how one year adversely affects it. I've volunteered in the Emergency Room and done ROTC which I believe are activities that require a certain level of maturity. How should I address my apparent issues of maturity due to my age?

My last question is my lack of extra curricular activities due to my participation in ROTC. For my first year and a half of college, I was absolutely swamped with ROTC and was not able to do any other significant extra curricular activities related to health care. Only last year did I start volunteering at a hospital and finally moved up to the ER this semester. I withdrew from ROTC this semester while also starting my MCAT prep so I did not have any time to start any new activities. Also my "freshman" and "sophomore" years were during my junior and senior years of high school during which point I also had a lack of significant extra curricular activities and since these activities were in high school, I do not think med schools would give them much weight as to building any character.

What do you suggest I do to remedy my lack of clinical exposure? I have had some shadowing time with an IM doc, but he runs a private clinic that has an extremely low volume of patients and I spent most my time just sitting around doing nothing since he had to run a lot of tests in private. I won't be able to get any more hours with him since he lives another city. The doctors in the ER are always extremely busy and only a few invite the volunteers to ask questions. I do get to talk to some doctors on occasion, but not as much as I like. I do get to speak with the nurses a lot and they do tell me what they like in doctors, etc. Also, I do get to observe how the EM doctors do procedures and make diagnoses, but never really get to ask questions. How do I get more out of my volunteering or do I have enough and just need to piece my experiences together?

Thanks

Your application is crying out for a year off as much as you do not want to take a year away from academics. Get a job doing something in a clinical setting or sign up for a 2 year service gig with Americorps Vista Volunteers, Peace Corps or some other service organization. Life experience outside of the academic bubble you've been living in for 15 years is what you really need to give you a patina of "maturity".

You also seem to have a little trouble with multi-tasking (not taking on anything else because of ROTC, etc) and this makes your application a little thin with regard to "experience" outside of the classroom.

I'm a little unclear on your academic activity. Did you attend college classes in person before you graduated H.S.? Did you get college credit for classroom work done at your H.S.? If you were on a college campus for only 2 years I think you have all the more reason to get "out into the world" before attempting to apply to med school.

Madame · May 7, 2007

mynamewastaken said:
Hi all,

Thank you very much for your time spent on this forum.

I'm currently a post-bacc student at UPenn and I worry often that I might be wasting my time and a lot of money. I finished my undergrad at an Ivy league school after transferring from a private "competitive" school after my freshman year. I took gen bio and gen chem at my first university and got A's. Graduated from Penn 3 years later with a 3.0 cumulative. two years after graduating i'm back at Penn. Long story short, I will finish 10-12 courses as a post bacc at Penn (including orgo and physics) with a POST-BACC GPA between a 3.5-3.6. All the upper level classes are A's/A-'s, but the physics and orgo grades range from B- to B+. My cumulative ugrad GPA might crawl up to 3.16 ish with my science hovering around 3.6. Haven't taken the MCAT yet. My concern is those very mediocre grades in orgo and physics have made my post-bacc performace seem like I haven't made up for my poor undergrad grades. BTW I am completely open to osteoptahic schools. I just would appreciate some truth and guidance. Thanks again for all your time and insight.

Without knowing your MCAT and the qualitative sections of your application (scholarly activity, Letters of recommendation, personal statement, motivation for medicine, other extracurriculars) it is hard to say what your chances might be.

Prepare for the MCAT and then assess your options.

Madame · May 7, 2007

lynn623la said:
Thanks in advance for the advice!

Freshman year: 2.77 GPA, largely to being young and not sure what wanted to do with life.

Sophomore yr: 3.22 GPA, some W's, supporting self, etc.

Junior year: 3.98 GPA in advanced biology courses, O-Chem, Calculus, Physics

Senior yr: 4.0 GPA in Biochem I and II, Calc II, etc advanced biology courses

EC: Shadowing, volunteer work, lot's research.

This brings me to about a 3.48 cummulative, yet 3.78 science GPA. Will be taking MCATs late July or August.

Will schools look at an upward trend? Especially A's in 4000 level Biology, chemistry courses?

If the 3.48 doesn't knock you out of the box, an adcom may take a closer look and see your upward trend and the discrepancy between total gpa and BCMP gpa. You can hope that someone will be impressed and grant an interview.

Good luck!

Madame · May 7, 2007

nka1985 said:
What can I do to improve my chances of being accepted off of a waitlist? I've sent in letters of continued interest as well as an update letter. Is this all I can do? I'm waitlisted at VCU (OOS applicant), EVMS (OOS applicant), and NYMC. My stats are 3.49 overall, 3.39 BCPM, and 33N on the MCAT. Do I really have a good shot at being accepted off the waitlist this year in your opinion? Thanks!

You wouldn't be on the waitlist if they didn't think that you were worthy of admission. So, your shot at being accepted all depends on how many applicants who have offers at those 3 schools have offers at other schools such that they decline the offer at VCU/EVMS/NYMC and go elsewhere. It also depends on whether those 3 schools were generous or stingy in the number of straight out offers of admission that they made (they may have been conservative & made few offers preferring to pick off the waitlist rather than funning the risk over-subscribing their class). Those of us on the outside don't know what the odds are for you.

Madame · May 8, 2007

ericL said:
hey folks, thanks for takin time to answer people's questions, thats awesome.
I posted this question in the pre-allo forums as well, but figured you could offer more meaningful advice. My question is this:
I'm not sure what my deal is, I can't seem to get anything but a B in my lib ed courses (however I also don't below an A- in any of my sciences), because of this, my GPA isn't great about 3.44 (probably higher after this semester as I am taking 3 sciences-biochem-ochemII-ochem lab- and calc II). In the future I will still have to take two or three more lib ed classes to meet graduation requirements... what is your opinion on taking these courses as pass/fail as opposed to receiving a letter grade? I guess I really don't want my GPA to drop at all but am shell shocked from last semester when I had three lib ed's and ochem 1 -I ended up the semester with a 3.13!!
A little about me, I am a non-trad (I think) I am 25y/o-married last summer- and am returning to school after finishing a two year degree at a CC. My ec's I think are good- I've been a paramedic for four years (five by the time I apply) and an EMT for two years prior. I volunteer doing clinical research and will be listed as an author on a study later this year.
This brings up one last question:
I completed a two year paramedic degree from a CC, however only two classes had credit that transferred to my four year university. When I apply, should I include all of the classes I took in the paramedic program or just the ones that transferred to my university?

Thanks Again

All of your college transcripts (including community college) go on your AMCAS application. All of the transcrpts are sent to AMCAS and are used to verify your entries on your application.

Madame · May 8, 2007

JeeSTAR said:
hi! thank you again for taking the time to answer our questions. well, I am currently a 2nd year undergraduate student at UC Riverside, but I drive about an hour to get to school everyday, which gets really exhausting. Recently, I applied to UC Irvine, (since it was a little bit closer) and got accepted. but i am hesitant to go there, since trying to adjust to the new school might interfere with me concentrating on getting good grades and studying for the mcat. but if I stay at UCR, I have to keep driving all that way! Basically, my question is, does the medical school committee care about how prestigious the school the applicant comes from? and do they take in account how far they drive to school (or the hardships that they may have encountered)?

Some individuals do tend to think more highly of some schools than others and one of the factors that colors the attitudes about a school are the difficulty to be admitted there and the average HS gpa or test scores of the student body. So, UC Irvine would be considered a little bit better than UC Riverside. How much better is hard to say (I'm no expert on UC schools).

I've never known anyone to take commuting time into account when assessing an application.

Madame · May 9, 2007

chocolatelover said:
Hey There! First of all, I just want to thank you all for being mentors and for helping by giving valuable advice to us pre-medders.

Like others, I also have a concern about my status in the admission process. I am currently a undergrad junior, pre-med and looking to apply this summer for the fall 2008 admission. I currently have a mediocre GPA (3.5 overall and 3.4 science). I have good research experience (NIH, doing honors thesis under the mentorship of a prof at campus, HHMI fellowship), have done clinical volunteering at a hospital, and have other good EC's. I will be taking my MCAT's in June. I am thinking to apply to MD/Ph.D programs, but I have heard they are extremely competetive. I am thinking of applying to straight MD to see if I get in anywhere. My question is should I apply this year considering that my GPA is not so competetive or should I wait to apply till next year when I think I will have few more upper level science classes under my belt and would have a chance to improve my GPA? I want to apply to a broad range of schools.

Thanks a lot for your advice.

If you want to be a physician-scientist and you can see yourself spending 3-5 years in the lab before you start your clerkships (3rd year medical school; hands on training at the bedside) then go for the MD/PhD. If that doesn't sound like the path for you, go with straight MD.

If you can manage a 36 or higher on the MCAT, then you might get away with applying this year. However, if you aren't opposed to waiting until next year (and finding something useful/interesting to do during the year after college graduation) then it might be worthwhile to wait. The process is time consuming (those secondaries!), costly (the secondaries, again), and emotionally wearing (waiting for interview invitations, interviewing, and waiting for decisions) not to mention the cost of interview travel if you are lucky enough to be invited for interviews. You can easily blow $3,000-$5,000 so don't make the leap until you are sure that your application is the best it can be.

Madame · May 9, 2007

ekuama2002 said:
I am currently a Chemistry grad student at TAMU- Commerce, graduated in May 2005.
My Strengths:

My undergrad GPA was 3.92, with a double major in CHEM and BIO, minor in premed, was in the honors program and prepared and defended an honors thesis.

I have some extra curicullar activities in being a Resident assistant-1.5 years, Working with upward bound program, peer tutor program, academic quizbowl team, track and cross country team, school choir, Singer and drummer at church youth band

I have worked as a teachers assitant, lab assitant, when I graduated worked for almost a year as a lab assistant in herbaceutical company, I currently work as a Graduate lab assistant for the Chem department

Weakness:
I dont have extensive medical experience because most of my spare time is spent in labs or my job.

I managed to shadow a physician for one day which was an awesome experience... but I felt that I was in his way so I feel bad about asking him for more exposure to his job

I am a foreign student from Ghana with a greencard .

I am married

Dont have money for med school

I took the MCAT in 2003 after I had taken plant , animal and cell biology, and score 22 S --😳 10P 5V 7B I didn't really get ample time to prepare

I intend to take the MCAT again this summer but I just want to know.. if I dont get enough medical experience and with my drawbacks.. do I really have a chance...

I have tried going a different path instead of medicine.. thinking I dont have what it takes...
I have 2 friends with similar credentials but did not get accepted when they applied to different schools

but I cant get it off my mind.. and I am not satisfied doing anything else
Please advise me

Thanks in advance🙂

You do have several strikes against you. Most serious is the fact that you don't have any experience to speak of in medicine. Why is this the career for you? You need to get some exposure to clinical settings either as a worker or as a volunteer. More than one day of shadowing is also a good idea.

The second issue is your verbal score on the MCAT. The writing score would also be of interest as well as statements in the letters of recommendation about your ability with spoken English. Your biology score is also on the low side.

The third issue is financial. Tuition and fees, books and supplies, and living expenses for a family are going to run to ~$30,000-$60,000/year (rough estimate). You will need to explore whether you are eligible to borrow and if so, how much. Some schools offer scholarships and you will need to explore whether you qualify for that aid.

Madame · May 9, 2007

ftcnt said:
I'm gonna try this again and reword my goals. I have a 3.2cpga for undergrad and a 3.7 from grad school in public health (doing my MPH at the moment). I am also working as an occupational therapist having done my Masters in it. However, like many I have always had an interest in medicine and want to pursue it with a great deal of passion. I have 7 years of volunteer experience in a pediatric hospital with direct patient care and also in a geriatric setting. Currently, I am working in mental health as a therapist but going to school as well. My mcat is low (24Q) but I will be writing it this summer and I want to know if assuming I get a good grade on my mcat >30, do I have a chance at a LCME school? I want to exhaust every single option before considering the route of a FMG.

thanks for taking the time to read this and hopefully I get a response! 🙂

You might want to look at mdapplicants.com and see if there have been successful applicants with a 3.2/24. If you can get the MCAT to 30 you might have a shot. More importantly, I think that you need to think about how you will address the question "why medicine?" given that you have a master's degree in occupational therapy and have worked in that field and are now pursuing a MPH and working in mental health.

Are you considering osteopathic medicine as well as allopathic?

Madame · May 10, 2007

FutureDoc4 said:
I normally wouldn't ask this question here, but I seem to be getting different answers from everyone. I just got my April MCAT scores back 33R (11 in each section). I have a good science and overall GPA 3.8-3.9 in both, with extensive lab and emt experience. I have an overall strong application, but I would like to apply to good number of top 20 schools. I am afraid that the MCAT is going to hold me back and keep me from getting there, so I can considering a retake in July. (I wanted a minimum of 34, so I was close and my range on practice tests were 34-37). Do you feel like if I can push my score to a 35-37 this could make the difference? I would really appreciate some insight on this situation. Thanks.

Take the 33 and run with it. Combined with your excellent gpa, you have the necessary stats for the top schools (you'll need more than just stats but you are OK in that regard).

There is the chance that you could do worse the second time around. A well balanced 33 is a thing of beauty and should carry you far.

Madame · May 10, 2007

waterbuffalo said:
Thank you in advance for your help with my questions. I have three questions.

To your knowledge, do allopathic medical schools allow osteopathic medical students to transfer after their first or second year?

After first year, no. After second year, yes but it is rare. You need to show that you have a compelling reason to transfer, you have to have done very well in the first 2 years, and the school needs to have room to take you.

Also, can osteopathic M-1 students apply and matriculate into allopathic medical schools to begin their M-1 all over again?

It would be highly unusual bordering on unheard of. Why would a medical school take someone away from the school where they'd already matriculated?

Would it be a mistake to turn down a DO acceptance to try for a MD acceptance next year? My Science GPA is 3.3 and MCAT 28 (9V, 10P, 9B)

Yes.

My hesitation to attend the DO school comes from my desire to enter a highly competitive specialty (ophthalmology, dermatology) and I have heard from several physicians that graduating from a DO school will limit my options at matching at such a competitive specialty.

DO or MD is not what gets you the competitive specialty, board scores, grades and research experience is what you'll need. Did you know that there is an American College of Osteopathic Dermatologists??

Madame · May 10, 2007

rain21 said:
Is there a disadvantage to taking a biochemistry class online?

I've never seen it done -- perhaps because the transcript does not distinguish between classes done online and those done face-to-face. I don't see where it would be a problem from the medical admissions standpoint.

Madame · May 10, 2007

Hello,
I got my MCAT results back today and was hoping you might have a little advice for me. I received a 29L on my MCAT. My sections were 12p, 10b, and 7v. My 29L put me in the 70th percentile, but my low VR and very low WS scores make me nervous. What would you say to this applicant had they applied to your school? Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Dear mentors,

I will be applying this cycle for fall of 2008 matriculation. I just received my MCAT scores: PS-13 VR-8 BS-13 and W- O.
My BCMP GPA is 3.9+ and overall GPA is 3.93. I come from a small, relatively unheard-of liberal arts school, have research experience, minimal clinical, lots of volunteer, and should have good LORs. I'm worried that my VR score is going to really hurt me. My questions:

1) How does my MCAT breakdown look to an ADCOM (please be brutally honest)?

2) Does this disqualify me from top tier (or even mid/lower tier) schools?

3) Should I retake-my VR practice scores were all 9 and 10?

4) Is there anything I can do at this point to compensate for this low score?

Any response would be greatly appreciated.

The first question an adcom member will ask might be, "Is this applicant a native speaker of English?" If the answer is yes, then the application is going to be viewed much differently than if the applicant is a relatively new immigrant. The next thing will be to look at grades earned in English and in courses in the humanities (e.g. philosophy, history) that would have involved a significant amount of writing and speaking. If the transcript is light in that regard, then that's noted. Next would be to read the personal statement and any supplemental materials to determine if the applicant did well. Finally, the letters of reference will be read to see if there are any comments about the applicant's reading, writing and speaking skills.

Now you know how we may look at your application. I hope you can put together an application that is going to show your skills.
__________________

Madame · May 12, 2007

BruceBanner said:
Im new to this website but not to the whole pre-med world. I was perusing the forums here and I just wanted to give a quick rundown of my stats and situation for anyone who has time to give some feedback.

I am a non-trad (25) currently finishing my junior year at a small new england university. My major is Pre-medicine (interdiciplinary between bio-chem-exercise science). I am currently holding about a 3.6 cumulative and slightly higher science GPA. I plan to take the MCAT next spring...i have done well on all practice tests and especially well on verbal with 11-14's. I just got my EMT-B and will be working part time this summer, in addition to doing hydrology work at the environmental lab here at school.

For extra-curriculars-- I have 50 + hours hospital volunteering to date, science tutor, anatomy t.a. and undergrad fellow, several sci/med clubs, boxing club, and a pending internship this summer in cardiac rehab at the local hospital. I also shadow a general surgeon and radiologist monthly. Not sterling credentials by any means, but im clawing my way up. For what its worth i also have a two-year degree from art school.

I plan to apply to some of the more 'forgiving' schools--i.e. UVM (state res.), Temple, Drexel, Albany, NYMC, Albert Einstein, Rush, etc.

Thats my general rundown. If anyone has time, I would appreciate any advice or opinions on my chances and possible directions to take from here.

Not much to say... you seem to have your ducks in a row. The art school degree & non-trad gives you a little something that distinguishes you from the pack. Do well on the MCAT, apply early, prepare well for the interviews and you should do well. Your list of schools is good-- depending on the MCAT and your stomach for competition, you might add a few upper tier schools to the mix.

Madame · May 12, 2007

M.Furfur said:
I have a question for you guys. I am a mature student with a degree in computer science, went back to school to become a nurse and I am currently applying for medicine. I did a lot of shadowing, over 120 hours. The problem is that I was shadowing my brother who is a GI.
Should I mention this shadowing? Is it ok to get a letter of recommendation from my brother's partner who is a family doctor?
The last thing I want anyone to think is that I want to become a doctor because I'm influenced by my family/brother...

The best way to handle this may be to mention your brother in your personal statement (you have shadowed him, had conversations with him about medicine as a career) but also note that your decision to pursue a career is informed by his experience but not a desire to copy his every move.

I don't see the need for a letter from your brother's partner (who would disclose this information in a letter because it is relevant to how he knows you) but my school puts an emphasis on letters from professors and does not require any letters from non-academics (character references).

Madame · May 12, 2007

ericL said:
Thank you for your reply, I still would like to know your opinion on taking liberal ed. classes as pass fail due to these not being my strong suit and hopefully would like to pull my GPA as much as possible. I currently have a 3.44 after 59 credits (this does not include my transcripts from the C.C. which would pull this up) and my 14 credits this semester will be at a 3.7-4.0.

Thanks again, this particular forum has been very helpful.

Taking courses pass/fail to protect a gpa never looks good. If your writing score winds up on the low side, an adcom member may look at your liberal ed grades as reassurance that you do well in that realm. Without the reassurance of some good grades in liberal arts classes, you lose the reassurance value that those courses provide the adcom.

Madame · May 12, 2007

BElloPEPPE said:
Hello,

I am in the process of filling out my amcas application and I see there is a spot for GRE scores. I took the GRE about a year ago and I received a decent score. I was wondering, is there any real benefit to including this score with my application? Would an adcom be influenced by this?

Thanks for all the great advice that has been posted in this thread.

Many adcom members have little or no experience with the GRE and will not know how to interprete the score. So, I would say no real benefit to include it. I would estimate that <1% of applicants put GRE scores on their applications (an exception being, perhaps MSTP applicants). I doubt that an adcom would be influenced by it.

Madame · May 14, 2007

bap123 said:
My daughter had applied to BA/MD programs as a high school senior, 3 years ago. She had received 3 interviews but did not make the cut. Now she is ready to apply as a regular pre-med candidate to these schools. Should she mention this fact in her application? The fact that she had previously applied to these schools for admission.

No need to mention somewhat negative fact except, perhaps, to illustrate that she has a continued interest in the field of medicine. She could say that she applied to BA/MD programs but chose to matriculate as a __ major at __ College and was glad to have four years to fully explore ....

Madame · May 14, 2007

killinsound said:
Hi,

I'm an undergrad at UCSD.

My cumulative GPA is a 3.43 currently, and by the end of this quarter if I get straight A's (it looks that way right now), I could possibly bump up to a 3.50 or at least really close to it. I would have to wait for mid June for my grades to get released. Is it worth my time to wait, or should I apply right on June 5th?

My 1st two years of college suffered from unmotivation, family issues, etc. However, since then, I have only received one B+ and the rest A's or A+'s in all my classes. Hence, I have a very strong upward trend. This is all explained, without mentioning my grades directly, just the problems, and how it pointed me towards medicine. For this reason, my cumulative GPA is relatively low, but my BCPM/Major gpa is around a 3.8

My MCAT is a PS 13 BS 13 VR 10 WS:R... 36R. The decision to pursue medicine did not dawn on me until the end of 2nd quarter, so therefore my more "clinical" EC's aren't as developed as other med students.

ie: i only have 2 quarters of volunteering in a hospital (and still continuing) and I have been doing research (no publications) for almost a year now. However, I have been working at least 12, but mostly 15 hours a week for all of my college career. I also have alot of nonmedicine related ec activites (snorkel club, photography club, etc.).

My question is what schools do I have a shot at?

I'm a bit wary about my low cumulative GPA and how it will effect my chances even with my very strong upward trend (it's more of a step).

Your strong MCAT helps to balance your weak gpa. I'd wait until after your latest grades are posted to your transcript before submitting to AMCAS to be verified. It puts you a little behind but it shouldn't matter and the 0.07 increase in the gpa, plus the MCAT, will get you noticed even if you are a little late. You should have a good shot at the schools of your choice.

Madame · May 14, 2007

chickenlittle84 said:
Hi! I was just wondering if you could provide some insight on how your adcom might look at someone with the following grade trend:

Inorganic Chemistry (freshman year) - C/C
Biology with lab (sophomore year) - B/C+
Physics (sophomore year) - A-/B+
Intro stats (sophomore year) - B+
Organic Chemistry (summer after sophomore year bc/I studied abroad junior year) - B+ for 2 semesters worth
Biochemistry (senior year) - A
Neurobiology (senior year) - A-
Biochem of Metabolism (advanced biochem class, senior year) - A-
Upper level stats (senior year) - B+
Cell Biology (summer after senior year) - A

To put these grades in context, went to a competitive undergrad, 31 MCAT (9P, 12V, 10B, S). I am a non-science major and have excelled in this coursework, and I will have two years of full-time health related/community oriented work experience by the time I matriculate (hopefully matriculate).

This isn't really meant to be a what are my chances question because I know that my chances will be determined by a lot more than what I can post here. I guess I was just hoping you could provide a sense of what the conversation in your adcom might sound like. Would the assumption be that this person couldn't do the work? Could do the work?

Thanks!

Late bloomer. MCAT/gpa a little weak for a top tier school. Non-science major who may be stronger in the social sciences/humanities than in the hard sciences (verbal 12/physical science 9). Might be capable of keeping up at a mid-tier school.

Madame · May 14, 2007

aspiring med said:
Hi,

Thank you for your time.
Do you think I, as a reapplicant, have to rewrite my personal statement?
I am currently on 3 waitlists for medical schools, and am actively following up.

I am also preparing to reapply ASAP this year and have been accepted to the Georgetown SMP for this fall.

My application last year:
Aug'06 MCAT; 34 M(12 PS, 11 BS& VR)
BCPM: 3.19
Overall: 3.55- Psychology major, UG psych research
2 years clinical research, 0 publications.

I've been told my PS is strong, my boss, a med school professor, said it was the best he's ever read. The content is still relevant and doesn't need updating.

My reason for reapplication is that I hope my SMP and early application (no Aug. MCAT delay) will increase my success. I don't want to risk dropping my strong PS to rewrite a less stellar one. My school's prehealth advisor said I don't need to rewrite and that most schools don't compare reapplicants' essays.

What do you think?

Thank you!

You make every argument not to re-write and I concur. The delay last year and your less than stellar BCPM gpa are the issue... good luck with the waitlists; perhaps the SMP & reapplication won't even be necessary!

Madame · May 14, 2007

Giggles411 said:
Hi all,
I took 4 courses (Comp Sci, Psych, Bio, and Heatlh Ed) at a Community College while I was still in High School and they are all listed on my Transcript. SO does that mean I must include ALL OF THEM on my AMCAS APP?

Yes.

Also, Would the Psycho, Bio and Health fall under the "BCPM" category as Science classes? Thank you so much!!!
"Love, Peace, and Happiness"😍

Bio is a science (BCPM) course. The others are not.

SpongeBobDrPants · May 15, 2007

Faze2 said:
What about a course that was called "Psychology As a Natural Science"?

It had an intro to neurology and neuropsych. Would that be under bcpm?

Sounds like it!

SpongeBobDrPants · May 15, 2007

DrVanNostran said:
Hello, thank you for answering our questions🙂

Here is my dillema. I am a fourth year reapplicant (who also took the MCAT four times 🙁 ) It has been nearly 5 years since my first attempt and achieved my desired result of a 30 on my last attempt (8 V, 11P, 11B).

I know that my MCAT is ok, but after interviewing this year, it just seemed like everyone had a higher score than me. I am currently teaching a few sections of the MCAT and I do feel that I can do better. Do you think it is worth a re-write?

-dvn

It would look sketchy to take it another time. If you apply broadly, you should be able to get in with your current MCAT score --- assuming that your grades/ECs are strong and that you are a good interviewee. Keep in mind that there's a whole lot more to your application than the MCAT alone! Also, a strong personal statement can go a long way.

Madame · May 15, 2007

DocFunk said:
Hi,

Just curious. Does a 3.5 GPA and a 30 MCAT score still hold up in medical school? It seems like you need a 3.8 and a 33 MCAT to get in these days. I know it's not about the numbers but aren't they the most important in the application?

With a 3.5/30 you shouldn't get ruled out at every school. Obviously, the schools that have an average of 3.8/33 are going to find your numbers to be on the low side but at many schools you'd be considered an "average" matriculant. Once you're past the numbers, the adcom is going to consider your personal statement, experiences, and letters of recommendation before making a decision to interview you.

Madame · May 15, 2007

Xswim57 said:
Hello,

Thank you all for taking the time to respond to these questions.

My question is somewhat similar in regard to one posted earlier about a re-applicant's personal statement. I had applied this previous cycle (for fall of 07), but was not approved by AMCAS until mid-December. Needless to say, I had little luck applying so late (due to problems with official transcripts and taking the August MCAT). I ended up applying completely (secondary apps.) to only three schools because the application was so late.

I am very happy with the personal statement, and have had positive feedback about it from others. I would like to use it again because I feel as though it properly addresses my background.

Given that it will have only been about 7 months since the medical schools received the previous application, would it be necessary to re-write the entire personal statement? I am a post-bacc. student who has continued to earn good grades, obtain much more shadowing experience, and continue with volunteer work. But not much more than that has changed significantly during that time.

I understand a question somewhat similar to this one had been responded to previously, but was hoping that you could add a bit more clarification to the situation.

Thanks for all your time.

I've been reading applications for 5+ years. Most of the adcom members I know read at least 200 personal statements per year. A personal statement would have to be very memorable to be recalled almost a year later and found to be identical to a newly submitted one. Plus, the odds of having the same reviewer two years running are slim... and we have far too much to do to go digging through past applications to see what you wrote last year.

Madame · May 15, 2007

DOC1987 said:
are students who take the MCAT twice (but did stellar the second time) at a disadvantage when compared to students who took it once and did well the first time? i'm talking about mainly top ten schools. Thanks for your help.

My experience at a single school. I haven't seen adcom members treat applicants differently if they took the MCAT twice. The second of the two scores is usually the one that is "used" in making decisions.

Madame · May 15, 2007

cerulean said:
Would it be viewed negatively to be portrayed as extremely undecided as to what areas of medicine I'm interested in pursuing in the future? <snip> I ... have very scattered medical-related interests as well that sometimes are mutually exclusive, such as academic research, clinical research w/ drug or vaccine trials, serving underprivileged urban communities, international health work, infectious diseases work ( more epidemiology type), policy work, maybe working in the pharma industry.

I have research / extracurricular experiences / public health coursework / work experience that support my interest in each of these areas and at this early stage in the med training process, I haven't figured out which interests to seriously pursue and which ones to drop. I know an MD would be useful if not crucial to pursue any one of these interests which is why I'm interested in medical school. However, i figure that many of these avenues will be closed off to me as I progress through the process, and thus am wondering if I should attempt (and maybe fail) at trying to adequately explain all of my interests in the all too short space for a personal statement (and later, at interviews).

Thank you! I appreciate your input.

I can see connecting a few dots... working with pharm/vaccine development/infectious disease/urban poor/overseas. Advocacy for populations in need/at risk and working for policy changes goes along with that. You might want to look into MD/MPH programs or programs that offer an MSTP with a strong microbiology/immunology program and the possibility of taking graduate classes in public health as well.

If you can articulate your major interests in medicine which seem to link a few different interests aimed at using science to prevent disease and to learn more about disease in populations -- and you can also express a desire to treat individual patients (otherwise, you might as well go into infectious disease epidemiology alone), I think that you'll have a good personal statement.

Madame · May 16, 2007

pazan said:
Thanks for taking the time to offer your expertise and opinions, they are very much appreciated!

I wanted to know how ad coms view varied research experiences during undergrad. <snip> I've established good relationships with the PIs and I don't think they see my eclecticism as anything negative (I contributed something to the lab and they're grateful for it). But, I'm worried ad coms might see me as lacking enthusiasm about a research project or switching in and out of labs because of bad interactions with the PI... is it normal to have this fear? Is "intellectual curiosity" a valid enough reason to be switching labs? Thanks again!

If you are planning on applying MSTP (MD/PhD) the fact that you've jumped around might be seen as a negative. For a regular MD program, I don't believe anyone will thing anything of it and some may see the wealth of experiences to be enriching.

Madame · May 16, 2007

IWant2BeADoctor said:
Is it possible to make the cut with a 3.2 overall GPA and 3.68 BCMP GPA? MCAT 38(14V 12P 12BS WS:S)

I had a serious lack of focus(had no idea what I wanted to do in life) couldn't decide on what major to stick with until I settled on Biology at the end of my Sophomore year.

My GPA was piss poor my first 2 years of college, 2.5ish but for the past 2 semesters I've been trending a solid 4.0 in my pre-med pre-reqs. Still have 2 semesters to go and I anticipate 4.0s for both which would raise my GPA to 3.42 overall and 3.72 BCMP.

Straight A's in all my Pre-req work except Bio I which I got a B on.

On the down side 1 D in Women's History, 1 F in Precal but those were in my Freshman year.

Is it worth trying to apply this cycle?

My personal opinion, the 38S is going to get you noticed. The 3.2 is incongruous and the BCPM of 3.68 seems to tell a bit more of the story. Many adcom members would approach such an application with curiosity as to the rest of the story.

Medical School Admissions: How can I improve my chances?

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