Medical School Admissions: How can I improve my chances?

MEDRCA said:

Thank you so much for your time... This thread has been really helpful. I was wondering if you could take a quick look at my situation. I graduated undergrad from a very good private (non ivy) school with a 3.2 science and 3.2 cum. Quite frankly, I wasn't a very good student. However, I knew I wanted to be a doctor so I raised my g.p.a. Here's my breakdown
freshman- 2.62
sophmore-3.28
junior- 3.48
senior-3.76

Since then I have completed 10 courses within a post bac program and have a 3.86 g.p.a. The problem is, even with all that work my cum. comes out to a about a 3.35 and my science is a 3.3. I have a 33 Q on the MCAT. I have over 250 hours of volunteer experience. I spent a year after graduation performing clinical research at an emergency department in a major teaching hospital. I have an honors thesis in neuroscience and some volunteer teaching experience at a middle school in an underserved area. I know I want to go into medicine, but do I have a shot? Thanks

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You absolutely have a shot. An upward trend every single year is impressive. Your post bac equals an extra year of classes and you did very well. Your MCAT is good and you have volunteer exerience, research experience, clinical exposure... Except for those short-sighted, pressed for time schools that will weed you out on the basis of your gpa, you have a good shot, even at some of the mid- tier schools.

free_radical said:

Thank you for the input- I've on follow-up question:

How can I assure the adcoms that I will fit it and that I will stay in medicine? I mean, I am sure that I want to be in medicine, but what can possibly have them assured of it sufficiently? I'm an active volunteer EMT-B, and this summer I'll be volunteering in a hospital- at this point in time, is there any way to set their minds at ease in this regard??

Thank you

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Your personal statement and any supplemental essays need to be particularly well crafted. In addition, you need to have your responses to questions about your journey thought out, but not rehearsed, prior to interviews.

Be able to answer "why medicine" and "how do you know" as well as make some justification for the circuitous route you've taken. You may be asked how/why you decided on your previous career paths and how your most recent decision to pursue medicine is different.

DOC1987 said:

I founded a chapter at my university of an AIDS-related national national student org and have done a lot with it. Do you think that I should make my experiences with it an integral part of my personal statement and interviews? How often do you come across applicants with great scores that are also student group founders?

Also, thank you so much to all of you... This is extremely helpful and I'm sure everyone here is greatful that you are committing so much time to this!

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It is not common to find an applicant with the background that you describe but it is not unheard of. This activity demonstrates leadership and administrative skills. It might help your application stand out. Anything that makes an adcom member say, "how interesting! I'd like to meet this person." is worth considering as part of your personal statement and/or experience section.

AnesthesiaMD said:

I know I've posted on this forum before but I wanted to know what one of the Adcom members thinks of this list of schools to which I am considering applying for the entering class starting in 2009.

GWU Georgetown U. of Iowa Rosalind Franklin Loyola UIC U. Kentucky Tulane MSU U-M Wayne State St. Louis U. Wake Forest Creighton Albany M.C. N.Y.M.C. SUNY - Down. SUNY - Upstate U. Cincinnati Medical U. of OH Ohio State Drexel Jefferson Temple Penn State UT - San Antonio EVMS VCU U. Vermont MCW
If you need my stats by the time I apply, I think they're posted in my first post on this forum but here they are again to make it easier on you...overall GPA - 3.5, BCPM GPA - 3.43, Last ~103 credits GPA(depending on my last year of classes) - 3.77, Last 75 credits in BCPM - 3.71. Thanks for your time.

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You seem to have some schools where you should have a reasonable chance. Check every one of those publically funded (State) schools to be sure that they are "friendly" to out-of-state (OOS) residents. Some are, some are not. The MSAR, a publication available from AAMC, will give you some figures on the proportion of OOS matriculants, etc.

Arc said:

Back again with a few more quiestions. Here goes:

1) Personal statment
Can I write about things other than medicine? Like say...life changing experiences, hobbies, family background, etc? And if I am the first person in my family to go to medical school, will that be worth mentioning?

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The theme of your personal statement should be why you have decided to pursue a career in medicine and the steps you've taken toward that goal and how they have prepared you for medical school. The things that you mentioned might be worked into such an essay. Being the first in the family to go medical school may or may not be relevant. If your family has very little education and you are the first to complete high school, then that might be relevant but for the most part, a lack of physicians in the family is not noteworth.

2) Grades
I'm having a rough time with my math grades. So far, I haven't been able to break a C in any of my math courses. Will this look bad when it comes time for me to apply? On another note, I did some CC courses while in high school, but I ended up dropping them, or getting a C in them. Will it still count against me even though I took, and recvied the grades/W in high school? And will getting a C in Zoology look bad ?

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Grades of C are equal to 2.0 which is going to hurt when you hope to hit a grade point average of 3.4 or more (the average at many schools is >3.66). It is still early in your academic career, get some help with math and aim for an upward trend in math and biology.

3) Stretch...
Since I'm a freshman in a CC, I was wondering what I can do NOW to increase my chances of getting into a top-tier med school like say...John Hopkins? Will starting off in a comunity college hurt my cahnces of getting into a top-tier med school?

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Think about why you want to go to medical school and why your goal is a top tier school. It may be that a top-tier school that places a focus on medical research will not be a good fit with your goals. That said, starting at a CC is not bad as long as you do well and transfer into a well-regarded 4-year college or university for the final 2 years of undergrad.

dochoov said:

Is it important to include information about my family in the AMCAS application? What do you prefer to see included?

Thanks.

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I do like to see the names, professions and alma maters of the parents and the ages of the siblings (I think that only sibling ages are listed these days). It does help provide an estimate of the socioeconomic status of the applicant's family of origin and the exposure to medicine that the applicant may have had (or not had) as a child and teen. Offspring of physicians are sometimes given a "pass" when it comes to having shadowing experience listed on the AMCAS. Some applicants who do not choose to self-identify as "disadvantaged" do provide some additional information about their family through this section: deceased parent, parents who did not attend college, parents working as farmers, laborers, etc. This information does not go into the financial aid decision but does provide a little bit of a picture into the applicant's family.

mbs329 said:

Dear Mentors,
I am a 21-year old junior at NYU. I'm majoring in chemistry, minoring in history, and have a 3.819 GPA. I got my MCAT scores back last week and got the following: 8 PS, 11 VR, 13 BS, R WS for a 32R overall. I am very concerned about my PS score as it is recommended to get a 10 on each section. I've decided not to retake this summer as I am pleased with the other scores and have a job as a camp counselor that I would hate to give up. I am applying to a med school early decision (I had to turn in my application before I got my MCAT scores back) and their median MCAT score last year is 35. So, I am concerned that I am below the median (although I am right on track with the median in BS [12], VR [11]). I have 6 LORs which I know may be too many and am also a varsity athlete. I was named All-Conference this year and have received some awards in French.

Will I still be considered even though I am 3 points below the median for MCAT scores?

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Unless the school has a cutoff on MCAT you should be considered. However, your Physical Science score might be considered too low - it is hard to say as it varies by school.

The school I am applying to is my definite #1 choice for med school. Should I reiterate that to the admissions committee in a letter or something like that?

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Obviously, if you are applying early decision, the school is your first choice. If it were not, why would you apply early decision?

I've worked at the teaching affiliate hospital for that school a lot and wrote about that in my essay. Should I also let them know I am going to be a camp counselor this summer? Is that impressive? Thanks for your help!

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Being a camp counselor is not impressive. You could include it as one of your experiences (as it relates to how you are spending the summer) but it isn't going to create a "wow".

lainey234 said:

Thank you for taking the time to answer questions, it is greatly appreciated. I will keep mine short and sweet. I would like to apply this year although I truly believe it is quite optimistic of me to do so. I am currently doing an informal post-bacc to raise a 10+ yr old mediocre GPA.

Basically I wonder if there is any stigma associated with re-applicants? Is it okay to take a shot in the dark and apply this year knowing my chances are slim, or is it better to wait until my app is stronger next year? Let's assume that money and time are not the issue - do adcoms generally look unfavorably on re-apps?

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Re-applicants to the same school are alright as long as there has been some change in the application between the first and the second attempts (improvement in grades, relevant experiences, etc). If the re-application is to a more broad array of schools, then I believe it makes no difference at all to the adcom reader whether this is a first attempt or second.

synth said:

Hi, I have strong numbers: 3.97 BCPM GPA, 3.72 OGPA, projected 36+ MCAT. My volunteering and clinical experience, however, is lacking, insofar as I only have about 40 hours volunteer experience clocked and probably not enough to have a decent LOR written. I plan on picking up extensive clinical experience the semester after I apply (part-time job in a hospital). Will this be sufficient, or should I pursue volunteer time over the summer?

I am planning on applying to top-tier schools.

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What is the basis for your decision to pursue medicine? How have you tested this decision? These are the questions that admissions committees will be asking when they look at your application. If you have spent all your time racking up a great gpa and doing well on the MCAT but you haven't demonstrated a desire to serve others (volunteer service in the community) and get involved in clinical settings (employment or volunteer) and see what docs do (shadowing or through parents), then your application will be considered weak. Do what you can this summer and apply late -- Aug 1, so that you can put the summer experience on the AMCAS. This is opposite the advice of "apply early" but in your case, with great stats, you can get away with applying late if it means that your application will be stronger because it has added clincal/volunteer experiences listed.

persistent19 said:

I am a premedical student (04-08) and I have a GPA of 3.82 cumulative (I have 5 Bs: physics I and II, Organic I and II, Genetics). I have 2 more semesters to go and I am confident that I will get good grades. I have been a resident assistant since August of 2005 and have been a Head RA for the summer. I have undergone training to adjudicate behaviors in violation of my university policy (Judicial board member). In addition, I have volunteered over 500 hours until 2004 in a hospital setting and rehab facility. I research with Insulin in my undergrad institution. Additionally, I am a member of Phi Eta Sigma and the president of Delta Epsilon Iota for the upcoming year (both are honor societies). I have gotten 2 awards for my volunteer work (one being the presidential student service award and the other being the Junior volunteer of the year). I also belong to a few other diverse clubs. I have also worked in a hospital setting.
My question is, what are the chances of me getting into medical school. I am pretty good with interviews but its getting there that scares me. I am good when it comes to studying and handling course load. However, MCATs make me nervous. I plan to take the MCATs pretty soon. Please help. I have already gotten the recommendations and this is the last piece of the puzzle.
Is the MCAT numbers and GPA the only thing that the committee really looks at? If you don’t make the numbers would my application be set apart? How broadly should I apply?

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Applications are judged in many categories including academic strength, written material, letters of recommendation, scholarly activity (research and publication/presentation), and extracurriculars.

Your MCAT is still unknown, your gpa is strong but the Bs are in key courses so those are a disappointment.

Your RA and Head RA are good extracurriculars that show responsibility and leadership as does your appointment to the judicial board. Honors and awards don't impress me but the volunteer work and academic excellence that led to the awards will be noted. You have done some research which will count toward scholarly activity. Your gpa is above average at most schools. Other than that, your application is about average for a top tier school. Apply broadly means to apply to at least 12 schools and to apply both to schools where you are "average" as well as a few schools where the average MCAT and gpa are below your gpa and MCAT scores. Pay attention to whether the school accepts out of state residents and choose schools that appeal to you due to their curriculum, research interests or other characteristics. Schools will want to know that you "know them" and that you are interested in attending -- not just going through the motions of listing a bunch of names on the application... do your homework and have good reasons for each application.

dr milky said:

My brief history:

Non-trad, Navy jet pilot, currently strike flight instructor (Navy), 2.71 undergrad GPA(USNA), 4.0 post bacc GPA (CC), 39M MCAT JAN '07 (13x3), lots of community svc and shadowing. <snip>
Dilemma:

Due to manning issues in the Navy ... the Navy has now decided that they can't part with me until spring 2010.

Question:

I know that the strength of my application hinges on the ability of my MCAT scores to balance my low undergrad GPA and allow my unique EC's to shine through. How can I maintain a current application and preserve my MCAT's ability to offset my GPA? Due to my intense Navy schedule, regular time off for classes is often hard to come by. What would be better, a Microbiology class from a community college or a Nutrition class from a low level university? Any other suggestions would be welcome.

Thanks

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OK, you can start med school in Fall 2010. This means that you will apply for admission in June 2009. At that point your MCAT scores will be 2.5 years old. IIRC, that is still "fresh" so you are good there.

The undergrad gpa is on the low side but it is a tough school and the course work, I'm guessing, was not anything close to premed (engineering perhaps?) . Anyway, your post-bac gpa is good and any reservations that might come along with the school(s) at which you took those courses is answered by the MCAT 39. Microbriology or nutrition would be a fine additional course on your transcript. Take whichever interests you or works better with your schedule.

Good luck! Stay safe.

Bearferret said:

I graduated in 2005 with a double major in theater and psychology. My GPA is an unspectacular 3.51. I moved to L.A. ...after a while here, ...I decided to do a 180 and go back to fulfill my premed requirements.

I am now at UCLA Extension taking the basic science courses. This leads me to my first question: UCLA Extension is not really a formal post-bacc program, like Harvard Extension or Scripps - is this a negative?

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No.

I also don't think I will get a committee LOR, since it isn't a formal program; will this be a red flag?

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No, adcoms that deal with many applications from California know that there isn't a committee letter from UCLA Extension. Harvard Extension is the same way, IIRC.

Will these post-bacc grades be factored into my overall GPA? If so, my cum GPA will most likely be around 3.6, and my science GPA will be 3.8-3.9ish. Will the UCLA grades be looked at as significantly different from my grades at Northwestern?

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They will be shown separately and as a grand total.

Yet another question: in high school, I took Physics B and C AP, and got 5's, which would place me out of the first two of the three physics classes in the sequence at UCLA. My understanding is that AP credit does not generally contribute to medical school prerequisites (please correct me if I'm wrong), but would allow me to take more advanced classes. My issue is that I took these classes over five years ago, and wouldn't feel comfortable jumping into a high-level physics class. Under these circumstances, would it be looked down upon if I took the basic level classes at UCLA to fulfill my requirements (as in, just taking classes 1, 2, and 3, as opposed to starting at 3 and moving on to more advanced physics classes)?

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I you don't feel prepared, retake those courses you took as AP.

How do you feel about LORs from employers?

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I find that they are essential for non-trads who've been working for a few years.

Regarding ECs, I have a TON of non-health related ECs (mostly theater or education related). Are these helpful?

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Yes, in that they show your "well roundedness" or the point of view that you bring to the class.

My clinical and research stuff will be relatively minimal, although I will have some (at least 6 months and 100+ hours of volunteer work at a hospital and some shadowing), by the time I apply. Additionally, my father is an interventional cardiologist, and I've seen him perform angioplasties, along with other stuff.

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This seems OK.

And last (I promise), my father *technically* is a field faculty member ... Given all of that, would that comprise an advantage in my application?

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Not much if any. You might get a little more traction at his med school (legacy) although even that won't even get you a courtesy interview in some places. If there aren't any "in state" issues and you have good MCAT and gpa, you should worry about extra "advantage".

lovetolearn said:

My question is.. is it better to take the MCAT early and apply early with possibly a lower grade, ie a 25-28...or to take th MCAT later with and improve to hopefully a 30 or better but apply later?

I know this varies among med schools, so there is no standard answer, but what is the general consensus out there?

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When there were only two MCAT dates, some people would make a strategic decision to retake and delay applying with the idea that a late application with a good MCAT score is better than an early application with a poor score. I think that this line of reasoning still holds.

The exception to the rule would be if your MCAT were very good (but not excellent). In that case, early does have an advantage.

yellow412 said:

I was a chem major and anthropology minor @ competitive all women's college. Does the humanity major help me in my application?

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No, a particular major seldom helps. Chemistry is not a humanties major and neither is anthropology.

My over all GPA is 3.37 (not great). After college, I had one year of clinical research experience with two papers published and one conference. I worked with patients daily. Do I need more clinical experience?

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More would not be essential but if you haven't had experience in an in-patient or other residential setting (nursing home, hospice, etc) then that might be a nice addition.

Since then I've worked as an environmental chemist and now am in industry. Does it look bad that I've had so many different jobs?

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Why have you had so many jobs? Is this part of testing different possible careers or have you been just taking a job to pay the bills. Explain your journey in your personal statement.

I have volunteer experience from high school, college and current. Should I do more?

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The fact that you've been at it for years shows that you put an emphasis on service and that is good.

I took one of the April MCATs and just got my score back (10 VS, 7PS, 8BS, O in writing). Very disappointed - I had been scoring 30's in my practice AAMC exams. I plan on retaking it again in June...does it look bad that I'm taking it twice - so close to the first one?

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This is the first time that applicants have the option of taking twice in quick succession. Let's hope you can add a couple of points in each of the science sections.

If I get a 30 O on my next exam - would it make me an competitive candidate? I want to go to UMASS Worcester (average is 31 MCAT) - I am also in state.

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Given your gpa, which is ~ 0.31 < UMass avg, it might be best to have an MCAT that is > UMass average.

Also, when you say "in-state" in Mass., be sure that you qualify-- Massachusetts has one of the most strict definitions of "in state".

AEIOU said:

Hi.

I am a college junior at one of the top liberal arts colleges. I have a mcat scores of 34 P (14 Ps, 9 Vr, 11 Bs). My current gpa is 3.98. I have some research and shadowing experiences. I am curious how I might stand for those private research-oriented schools.

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You don't need me to tell you that your verbal is a little low. This might be overlooked at some schools.

In addition to the research & shadowing, some schools will want to see other extracurricular activities particularly those related to service and something that you do "for fun".

chickenlittle84 said:

What are some activities that your committee considers "wow" or really unique? Just curious. Thanks =)

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What wows us the first time is a snore the second time. Follow your interests, participate in activities that you find fun, fulfilling, or engaging. It isn't what you do but your enthusiasm and genuine interest in what you do that should shine through on your application and in your interviews.

AJVic123 said:

For the AMCAS application, Should I include the researcher I will be working with or just the research topic? Should my approach change for the TMDSAS application?

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Generally, the researcher's name goes in the "contact" slot. That also helps match the investigator with the LOR from the investigator. (If you have one.)

I'm not familiar with the TMDSAS application.

chickenlittle84 said:

What makes a personal statement really stand out in your mind? Very well-written? Very unique circumstances/experiences? Very original reasons for wanting to go into medicine?

I feel like sometimes it is hard to come up with a really original reason for wanting to pursue medicine. At the end of the day it is because the science is interesting, I enjoy working with people and have enjoyed the clinical experiences I have had more than anything else I have ever done, and because I am passionate about ensuring everyone has access to healthcare. But that in and of itself doesn't really set me apart from anyone else.

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Most of the reasons for going into medicine are along the lines of what you have outlined. What sets the great applicants apart from the good ones are well written essays with an excellent hook. Be sure to show how you've tested your interest in medicine, your experience with the type of people with whom you'd like to work, and what you've done about your passion for access to case (any volunteer activities along those lines?).

MissSonu said:

Thank you very much for responding. I will be taking both pieces of your advice actually. I am looking to apply to schools whose average MCAT score is a 29O, and I am also retaking the MCAT. Given how low my undergraduate GPA is, what kind of score do you think could compensate? Thank you again for your help.

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Looking back at your original message, it appears that your science gpa is low but your overall gpa is OK. You should aim for at least 10 in each section of the MCAT and you should consider taking some additional coursework in the basic sciences to show that you can managed that type of classroom work. As a non-science major, you have not had as much classroom experience as many other applicants to medical school and your relatively poor showing in BCPM may be considered the greatest weakness of your application.

meowkat444 said:

I'm an MSTP applicant this year. My GPA is above 3.7 from a top-tier school and I've had 3 years of research, some publications, and really strong volunteering record including Teach for America and volunteering on a medical ward now.

All other things being equal, I'm trying to figure out a few things about timeline. Right now i'm at 34 on practice MCATs and scheduled to take the test July 15. I'm hoping to pull above 36 by then. BUT--it means my AMCAS will be totally done at schools late, around Aug 15 (i'll submit all other parts in mid-june)

One option is to reschedule MCAT for Jun 15, in which case my AMCAS will be complete mid-July.

I'm trying to figure out how much that one month delay will hurt me, and whether it's worth taking the test a month earlier even if i score a point or two lower? It's hard to get opinions about MSTP apps... I'm applying to about 25 schools, all ranges, plus a few funded non-MSTP md/phd. but... no such thing as a safety school here!

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My experience reflects only one school. That said, the major factors are going to be your research experience and how it demonstrates your commitment to a career as a physician/scientist, the recommendations of your PI(s), and how well your research interests/experiences mesh with those of the schools where you have applied.

Schools tend to have just a few MSTP interview days (often they are actually 2 day interviews because of the desire to have you meet both clinical and non-clinical faculty). So, MSTP programs tend to read all the applications before deciding whom to invite for interviwe. At schools where that is the norm, being late won't hurt too much. Again, the real key is what I've mentioned in the first paragraph.

Justifying taking 2 years away from the lab to do TFA is going to take some time and effort. What happened to your research skills in those two years? Did you keep up with the literature in your area of interest during that time. Med school admissions committees tend to think highly of TFA volunteers but I'm not so sure that the MSTP adcom will find it to be a plus.

10Blade said:

Thank you for the all the information!

I have read all the responses but none seem to answer my own personal questions.

Here is my story...

BS Neuroscience 3.32 GPA Overall and about 3.3 BCPM
MS Biochemistry (will complete next quarter) ~3.7 GPA
August 2006 MCAT 10BS 10PS 7VR QWS

Clinical Experience:

-1 year ER volunteer (no patient contact)
-8 months OR volunteer (scrubbed in for surgeries but did nothing)
-6 months Clinical Care Internship (patient contact)
-Just started Medical Mobile Unit serving underserved areas (vitals, etc)
-Just started shadowing neurosurgeon (DO if that matters) where I also do rounds with residents
-Will start volunteer at HIV/AIDS/Reproductive Health Clinic


Research:

~3 years of basic Neuroscience research - 2 co-authored papers, 1 presentation at National Research conference, 5 co-authored abstracts
~1 year of Communications Psychology research evaluating doctor-patient interactions

Lots of community service

Great LORs

I realize that my undergrad GPA and MCAT scores are very low and I plan to take the MCAT again. Hopefully, I get somewhere between 30 and 32. I am a CA resident and I know my scores are much too low for any serious considerations from CA allopathic schools. My fateful questions are:

1. Do I have any chance of getting into an MD school?

2. What are the best OOS MD schools for me?

3. Should I give up on allopathic schools altogether and apply to DO schools?

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Your stats are below average which means an up-hill climb to an allopathic school.

Your best bet is to get a copy of Medical School Admission Requirements (MSAR) a publication produced by AAMC. It is worth the purchase price (about $25) if it helps you target the schools where you have the best chance of being admitted.

In terms of DO applications: Does the osteopathic approach appeal to you? Have you shadowed a DO who is willing to write a LOR for you? You need to figure that out before you decide to apply to osteopathic schools.

DOC1987 said:

I am trying to decide where to apply this summer. Do you think that with a 3.7 gpa in biomedical engineering and a good mcat score (taking it in a week but have been scoring 37+ on practice tests) I can be "confident" that I'll get into at least one of the top ten med schools? I mean I don't know how broad my range of med schools should be.

My EC's include founding a chapter of an AIDS-related student org at my university (it's pretty big.. there's about 140 chapters nation-wide), research (including a possible 3rd author publication-still pending- and an oral presentation at med symposium), volunteering, shadowing abroad, etc. Thanks for your input!

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You are hoping for one of ~1,250 seats available at the top 10 schools. (Keep in mind that a few of those schools severely limit admissions of out of state residents.) At the same time, I'd estimate that there are at least 12,500 unique applicants to these schools (counting each applicant only once, even if the applicant applies to more than one "top ten" school).

Your stats are good and with the hope that you will interview well, you might have a good chance of beating the odds and being admitted to at least one of these schools. However, you should have a few lower-ranked schools on your list just in case things don't pan out at the top schools.

atom101 said:

hi, I just finished my Hons. Bachelors of Science at University of toronto in Biotechnology specialist. Last year I did not apply to US schools but plan on applying this year. My stats are
Cumulative GPA: 3.43
Science GPA: 3.43
MCATS: 9,9,10, R (VR, PS, BS, wr)
I have 5 years hospital volunteer experience (400+ hours), member of the volunteer board, lots of leadership roles in campus clubs (academic, sports), teaching while at Uni, other customer service jobs (4+ years) and few scholarships.
I realize that my chances are not stellar...but I am not very particular either about any particular school...anything is fine.
My problem right now is
1. which schools will accept a canadian with these stats?
2. I plan on rewriting MCATS in july. will these scores be considered if I submit the AMCAS app. in june?
thank you very very much in advance..

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You need the Medical School Admission Requirements (MSAR) sold by the AAMC. There you will find the schools that accept international students as well as the average gpa and MCAT scores for each school. This will make it possible for you to narrow down your options.

If, when you complete the AMCAS, you indicate that you will be retaking the MCAT then your AMCAS application will not be considered "complete" until those MCAT scores are reported.

OncDoc19 said:

Mentors,
I have a question about LORs. I am currently in Germany shadowing a orthopedic surgeon for 2 weeks. I am with him everyday either in his clinic or in the OR on days he operates. It has been a wonderful experiance so far. I speak German so I'm able to understand most of what his patients say and he speaks English so he can explain what's going on if I get confused. Its been really interesting to see the differences in practices between German and the US and what effects socialized medicine has on the daily life of a physician. He has also allowed me to assist during operations. I even got to tie my first sutures! I have had other shadowing experiances before but not as intense as this. I have a letter already from a doctor I do clinical research for, but this doctor has asked me if I will want him to write one as well. My only hesitation is that I have this opportunity because are families are acquanited. I know him through his daughter who was an exchange student several years ago at my high school. Its not like we write every week and going on vacations together, but he does know me prior to this experiance. Can I still submit a LOR from him?
Thanks!

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There is little that this German clinician could add to your application, in particular because, as your profile shows, you are interested in MSTP programs. The emphasis in reading your application will be on your research experiences and areas of interest in "the lab". Having had some patient contact (which you've had in other clinical settings) is essential but a LOR documenting that experience is not essential.

healthnut said:

I applied late last year and fortunately received several interviews. However, I am still awaiting some of their decisions and am not on a waitlist (as far as I know). I would like some advice on the reapplication process.

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Are you saying that you interviewed but as of May 24th have not received the courtesy of a response?? This is highly irregular, I think.

If I reapply for this coming cycle (Fall 2008), nothing will have changed on my application, except for more time spent doing clinical volunteer work and on basic science research.

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Well, those are legitimate improvements.

I have 3.6 overall GPA, 3.5 BCPM, 31Q MCAT. 8V, 10PS, 13BS. I wish I could have taken the time to improve on my MCAT scores before this cycle, but it didn't happen.

When I applied, I sent my primary to 30 schools, but only filled out the secondaries for half of them. I'm not comfortable with sending my application to schools I had sent secondaries to last cycle because nothing will have changed much at all. However, for those schools that only received my primary last year, will they consider me as a reapplicant if I send them another primary? Also, when schools ask you to check off the box for "reapplicant" or "first-time applicant", do they mean just in reference to their school or in general as a medical school applicant?

I would appreciate the advice. Too bad I had no idea of SDN until after I applied! (really!)

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Not sure of the protocol here. The AMCAS does as if you are a reapplicant and that should be answered affirmative.

In terms of reapplying, you do have a strong list of experiences this year. Focus on schools where you will not be ruled out because of state residency, where your stats are equal to, or less than, the average for matriculants.

Whittle down your list before submitting the AMCAS based on state residence, stats and personal preferences. Be ready to be sincere and informed about what you like about the school and why you would be a desirable member of the incoming class. Be ready to respond promptly to requests for secondaries.
Good luck!

AzuraDragon said:

I have applied fairly late to 30+ MD schools of all tiers. Now I have a spot on 4 waitlists. I have been working as a lab technician for 1 year after college. My recommendations and extracurriculars are great, but my past scores are lacking. (3.1 GPA 28 MCAT).

My question is, what's the next best step for me to improve my chances next time around?

A)Stay in my hometown and take a Master's program which doesn't include medical courses (Master in Biology). Then, re-apply early.

B)Take a Post-bacc course load that reviews everything I already have taken, then apply early. (this is my least favorite idea, but it keeps costs down because I could stay in my hometown)

C)Scramble to apply for an out-of-state one year program which puts me in medical school classes and proves that I can excel. (This is fairly expensive, but at least I'm learning something new)

D) Any other ideas that I missed?

Thanks again!

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You need to apply early next time. You have 4 waitlists so I have to figure that you interview well and you are good enough to be admitted if a waitlist spot opens up.

I'd recommend the Masters in Biology. You don't need to have medical courses to get admitted to med school, but you need to have an excellent gpa in basic sciences. The Masters gives you a chance to do that. If you are going to wait and apply in 2008, I'd also suggest retaking the MCAT after a serious period of preparation. Unlike the other choices you've listed, the biology degree is also marketable if you need to work for a few cycles before going on into medicine.

Psychotropic said:

Here's what I have:

3.94 science
3.93 overall
3 year graduate from top tier university
magna cum laude/phi beta kapa
Ohio Resident

MCAT:
Aug 2006 9V 11B 11P P (paper)-->31 P
Apr 2007 7V 13B 11P S (computer)-->31 S
<snip>
I've already been accepted to a medical school via a non-binding early assurance program; however, I want to consider several other schools. In particular I am most interested in:

Case Western Reserve University
Ohio State University


I'm afraid that I've killed my chances by performing so poorly on the verbal section on the most recent MCAT I've taken. Is it even worth applying to these other schools given the recent score? Thanks for any/all advice.

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You don't need me to tell you that your verbal score is significantly below the avg for the schools you'd like to attend and your score dropped from one year to the next which suggests that your true performance is somewhere between 7 and 9 (not just a one-day fluke).

You have an acceptance. Take it and run.

ajtrau said:

My question is regarding experiences. I was unsuccessful at getting accepted to medical school this year (third year in a row) and I have decided to wait at least one year, maybe two, before I reapply to try to beef up my application (re-take MCAT etc.) but I just ran into a roadblock! I have great current clinical experience (my full-time job) and found some great volunteer programs I will be starting. However, all the research and leadership experiences I have are from college (I graduated in June 2005), but I did multiple years of both research and honor society leadership while in school. Are they too "old" to put on an application in, say, 2009 or could they be carried over? I am not sure what to do about this since I already work full time and it is not possible for me to take another job to do some research. And as far as leadership, the college environment is very condusive to that type of experience but I can't think of anything I can do now that I'm in the "real world!"

Also, would it be detrimental for me to use academic LOR's from my undergrad career that are several years old? What should I do if I don't take anymore classes?

Thanks so much for you time and effort!

Click to expand...

You should certainly list experiences from college on your application regardless of how long you've been out of college as it shows the type of involvement you had when you were taking classes. While it is possible for some people to rise to leadership positions in volunteer organizations, it isn't essential to do something like this to get into med school. You can also demonstrate leadership on the job...

Your LORs from faculty should be re-used but you might also want to include a letter from your employer to show your work ethic, leadership capacity and the like.

TheRealMD said:

How would an adcom approach age, if at all, in an application? I just turned 18 years old and am applying this cycle. I've had a lot of people tell me not to bring up my age anywhere in my application unless an adcom brings it up in my interview. Is that good advice?

Also here are some of my stats to put things in perspective:

MCAT: 32P (10V, 12P, 10B)
Cum GPA: 3.76
BCPM GPA: 3.76

Some volunteering in hospital (about 40-50 hours so far) and shadowing a radiologist.
Other volunteer experiences include tutoring physics, tutoring elementary and middle school kids, and monitoring a university computer lab.

I'm just worried that while my stats are somewhat ok, age will be quite an issue I'll have to deal with. I don't feel 18, but I forget that most people are 21-22 when they start applying to med school.

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You have an academically strong application. I seem to recall that date of birth is required on the AMCAS application so of course, admissions committee will know how old you are.

That said, the issue here is whether you've had enough exposure to medicine in order to make a mature decision to enter the field and if you've had enough "seasoning" to be mature and professional in your dealings with patients, peers, and superiors. Would you consider a 2-3 year commitment as a volunteer with Peace Corps or a similar organization to give you some life experience outside of the classroom setting? One other thing you haven't mentioned is what you do for fun and your interests outside of academics. This, too, should go on your application to demonstrate your "well roundedness".

doinmybest5840 said:

Hello!

I was wondering if someone could give me advice on what they think my chances are. I am currently finishing up my B.S. in psychology <snip>
I've been volunteering for about a year at the ... hospital, I was in a community service fraternity for a year, and took two psych classes that involved extensive volunteering in the community <snip> Anyway, sorry to ramble on there, but I'm planning to apply broadly and early (within the first 2-3 days), so I was wondering if anybody has any thoughts on whether I'll be able to get any interviews or acceptances.

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These questions are very difficult to answer (and I've taken out some of the details that might make it possible for others to personally identify you). Your gpa is below average for most medical schools but your MCAT might be a little bit above average for some schools. If a school thinks that your academic performance is strong enough to make you a safe bet in that regard, the admissions committee is going to want to know how you've tested your interest in medicine as a career (employment and/or volunteer work plus other exposure) and your interest in that particular school (some ask questions along those lines on the supplemental). They may want to know what your instructors and employers have to say about you and what you do in your free time for fun (hobbies & other free time activity) and to improve the community (service). How well you come across in the interview, as well, will play a big part in whether you get an acceptance.

Monkey25 said:

Hi Madame,
I also have some wiatlist reapplicant questions. I am applied very late this year (as in overnighting secondaries the day before they were due). I have a 3.4 science gpa, 3.7 total gpa, and a 27R mcat score. I have been out of college for two years and have very unique experiences such as Americorps, community based health work experience, and am completing a maternal and child health fellowship. In college, I did an extensive amount of organic chemistry research and have 7 publications (4 of which i am second author), 6 years of hospital volunteering, certified nursing assistant for a summer, excellent LOR's.

Luckily I was able to get 3 interviews this year, which have so far led to 1 waitlist, 1 rejection, and 1 pending. It's looking more like I will have to reapply and am probably going to take the MCAT for the third time with the goal of improving 3-4 points. What do you think? Do you have any advive to improve my app?

Click to expand...

A pending on May 25?? The school should have given you a decision by now! Focus on that waitlist spot. See if there is anything you can do (express sustained interest, etc) to improve your chances of getting off the list.

In the meantime...
Apply early and get those secondaries in early. None of this overnight stuff. The question becomes: should you prepare & retake the MCAT and then apply early in 2008 or should you apply this year with a late MCAT.

You have good experiences, it seems that the weaknesses are the lateness and the MCAT. It is too late to optimize both -- you'll need to choose which approach is best for you but I think I'd go with a July or August MCAT and a slightly late application with the hope that your Americorp service will catch someone's eye.

camd2b said:

Hello! I am planning to apply for Fall 2008 matriculation as an early decision applicant to a private school. I have researched schools and truly found the perfect school not only in terms of location (which shouldn't be that important but because of family illness, closeness to family is that important) but also in terms of their mission statement and curriculum (specifically classes like theology) and their reglious affliation (although I am not their religion, I appreciate that health is part of their religion and have had multiple positive experiences with their alumni doctors).
Do you have any advice for applying as early decision? Information on it is scarce. When writing my personal statement, do I want to incooperate into it anything having to do with choosing early decision and this school?
Thanks!

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Obviously, when you are putting all your eggs in one basket, you need to be sure that this school is your #1 choice and you need to convince the school that you are a good fit and will be worthy of admission. So, you need to let the school know why you are applying and why you think that you be a great addition to the class.

Good luck!

BirenJ said:

Hi

I'm not sure if I'm a strong applicant for the 2012 cycle.

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Do you mean to apply this summer -- that would be the 2007-8 cycle.

I'm taking MCATs in August. My gpa isn't exactly flattering (overall 3.4, science 3.0). Main reason, it will sound more like an excuse, is that I slacked first two years as an undergrad. Managed to score Cs in zoology and gen chem I, Bs in gen chem ii and botany, however from there on out, it's mostly As with a few B+'s here and there. I'm pretty confident that I can manage 30+ on MCATs.

As far as ECs, I have relatively few. I've had a full time job, not related to healthcare, for the past three-four years mostly for financial support, and not to just "kill" time. I plan on shadowing this summer.

I could go in back story to this but I will save that for interview/personal statement but I'm pretty sure that medicine is my calling. That's probably one of the reasons why I never shadowed/volunteered at a hospital/clinic, etc. I did one semester of research and will probably continue it and finish it out during my last year.

My biggest concern is if the schools will invite me for an interview. If I can score an interview, I can put my "bad" stats into a better perspective to the adcoms.

Back to my original point, should I take my chances and apply for the 2012 cycle? Should I rather take
an year off from undergrad and pursue a one-year master's degree? I should mention that I will be taking EMT courses over the summer.

Thank you

Click to expand...

While schools vary in their expectations, I think that you have a few red flags on your application including a very low science gpa and a relatively low overall gpa, a late MCAT, no clinical experience, and no mention of any service to others in the community. The EMT course isn't going to help; working or volunteering as an EMT might get you some clincal experience/volunteering hours. I think that a year off to do an SMP plus some clinical exposure (to test your interest in medicine) is essential given what you've told us.

You may question the value of clinical experience of some kind but most adcoms put a lot of emphasis on it.

Sandlot1892 said:

hi there, thanks for all of the help....

i was wondering how to list an EC on my amcas this time around. I was a tutor in college, but it was a work study job so i was paid for it. do you recommend listing it as paid employment or as tutoring??

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It is your choice but if it were my application I'd list it as paid employment.

secondly, i studied abroad at the university of oxford, and it was a really great and challenging year of study. however, grades did not transfer home so on my transcript they are all pass fail (a lot of upper level bio courses) should i explain in an activities description that there was no possible way to get grades transferred just pss/fail? or would this be understood in your opinion?

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This is usually understood and will show up in the transcript section of your application.

oh, and where do you weigh in on the debate of listing your activities/EC's... that is do you think short concise descriptions that mainly tell what we did are preferred over longer descriptions explaining how each relates to our desire to study medicine? i figure a professional opinion could help...

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Last year was the first time that much longer descriptions could be written. Most adcom members didn't know of the AMCAS policy change and they complained bitterly of the long-winded descriptions in comparison to the concise descriptions in years past. I think the adcom members I know best perfer it "short & sweet" without a moral to the story.

lastly, i'm a reapplicant and was eased to hear you say that if you are applying to new/different schools it wont matter to their adcoms if you are a reapp or not (i applied quite late last year and my main improvement is applying early this year). but i was slightly confused by your answer to the question about affirming previous application if you enver sent in a secondary... so if a school got our primary and not secondary confirm previous application? but if a school got neither do not confirm previous application? (and obviously, if we submitted both primary and secondary we would confirm previous application)...

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I'm confused. If you put the school's name on the AMCAS last year, I'd call this year "reapplication".

Old ortho said:

What is the relative importance of the medical school interviews? I know it varies by school but is there a general consensus (like 10% or 35%)? Is the interview's score added to your total score (based on GPA, MCA, EC's, LOR's)?

I heard some students had excellent interviews but were waitlisted or rejected, and some others had mediocre interviews but were accepted. Thank you for your answers.

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This varies by school, I suspect... and furthermore, the applicant is not always a good judge of how the interview went.

My own experience is that the paper application is scored and then points are added for exceptionally good interviews, subtracted for very poor interviews or remain the same. So someone very good on paper who didn't interview very well (but not so bad that they killed the application all together) might wind up with more points than an average applicant who had an average interview.

mmh309 said:

hello everyone, thanks for setting up this forum for med school application. I had sort of a specific question regarding applications. I am a rising junior at a LAC. I originally applied to my college as a foreign student but received the US permanent residence status (which my family had applied for years ago) just as I was coming over to study here. My question is do adcoms regard the very new residents such as myself differently from kids (citizen/PR) who have lived and studied in the US all their lives? THanks

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Adcom members can have some concerns when they read an application from someone who have lived in the US for just a few years. The major concern is written and spoken English.

hj7korp said:

Greetings,
I have a 3.9 GPA (3.9 BCPM) and 31 MCAT (8V 12P 11B). Do you think I should re-take the MCAT because of the 8 on Verbal?
I have taken the MCAT three times and had 6's on verbal for the previous two. I'm not a native speaker of English if that helps on your thoughts. Thanks!

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I wouldn't recommend taking the MCAT a 4th time (isn't there a restriction on that?). Some schools may cut you because of the low verbal but others may assume that you are a non-native speaker who is intelligent and well motivated but who reads more slowly than most medical students.

Good luck!

World Changer said:

I received a B and C+ in Organic 1&2 respectively. I also received a C and B in Physics 1&2 respectively. The swist is that I took these classes at the same time and I did not have a science major. In your opinion, how would and admissions board view this?

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The adcom will see:
Organic I B
Physics I C
Organic II C+
Physics II B

These are prerequisites for medical school. Everyone takes these courses regardless of their major. Frankly, the adcom will not be impressed. There may be some concern that you can't handle a heavy basic science curriculum in med school.

wisguy said:

I didn't have much time to study for my first MCAT and the score was a 33P, but the subscores were a very unbalanced PS08 VR13 BS12. I very much like research and I'm hoping to attend a "top tier" school where there are opportunities to pursue this interest further.

I therefore studied up on physics and gchem and retook with the Jan CBT and got the non-matching questions/passage in verbal. I think I missed most of the questions in passage after that one. Anyhow, I improved my PS, but did worse in verbal after the glitch. My new score is 37O with a breakdown of PS14 VR11 BS12.

The AAMC sent a letter to those affected by the glitch, which we can send to med schools so they know the situation. It basically describes the situation and identifies me as someone who recieved the bad passage. My GPA is a bit low for top 10's (~3.7), so I'm hoping that schools will look closely at my first VR score to maybe give me a bit of a boost. Should I send the AAMC letter or does it make me seem too high maintainence?

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Frankly, if you are interested in research I don't see why you shouldn't have a shot at the top 10 (or top 20). Be sure to emphasize your interest in research and have some experineces to show that you've tested that interest as well as your interest in medicine.

Oh, and the letter. Send it. It does explain why you dropped 2 points in the verbal (although an 11 is not too shabby).

biobossx99 said:

Hello! Thanks so much for taking the time to answer the questions!

I'm currently a 4th year at UC Berkeley, taking an extra semester to find a job, take the MCAT and do those last interesting classes. My GPA is 3.6 overall and a 3.7 GPA in BCPM. I've done about 2 years of work at a clinic, did 2 years of crew, about two summers of research and a year and I'm teaching chemistry.

I'm considered either taking 1 or two years off. Taking one year off would mean that I work and apply at the same time. Taking two years off would allow me to have 1 uninterrrupted year to work.

I have so many considerations in what I want to do during the time off, but overall, what are some of the considerations I should be thinking of when taking time off? And more specifically, what are some examples of what was looked favorably versus what was really looked down upon when taking time off? Should the score I get in the MCAT affect what I should look into and do?

Thanks!

Click to expand...

Taking a year off to study for the MCAT or write an unpublished novel might be frowned upon. Taking a year or two off to work in almost any job gives you a life experience that can be considered an asset. (it is in being able to relate the lessons learned on the job to the job of a physician whether it is cooperative team efforts, customer service, inventiveness and creativity or whatever). Given the economy, it is hard to pick and choose but if you are lucky enough to be hired to do something you enjoy, that enjoyment will show through in your interviews.

tonymanero said:

I applied to 5 schools this year, interviewed and rejected at 2, waitlisted at one. I want to apply again this year and I plan on applying more broadly. I have a 4.0 gpa but a 9v10p10b MCAT, I have a whole lot of volunteer and clinical experience, and I've been working as a full-time research tech for the past year at a top research university. I'm wondering whether it would be more advantageous to get out an early application because I have everything ready to go(including a fresh personal statement and new activities), or would it be better to wait and submit my application after scoring better on the MCAT in August? I'm also wondering if it's possible to submit my application in June without checking the box that says "I plan on taking the MCAT in August" so that I am reviewed earlier, and then just sending a letter later that shows I improved my MCAT score. Would schools accept a letter like that? I appreciate your help.

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You had 3 interviews on only 5 applications last year so it doesn't look as if your paper application is a problem. Furthermore, any funny business with the AMCAS might mean that the second set of AMCAS scores never make it to your application (particularly if the school downloads a hard copy when it arrives in the office) and the subsequent scores may just be ignored.

What concerns me is the fact that you were rejected at 2 of the 3 schools where you interviewed. To me this says that you need to work on your interviewing skills. Set up some mock interviews with people who do not know you well (maybe a friend can get a parent or uncle to do this for you and one of your older relatives can reciprocate). The "interviewer" can look at interview feedback on this website to get some sample questions. Your job is to be humble and poised (not cocky or rattled) and have well thought out - but not rehearsed- answers to the typical questions.

Good luck!

TheVirginian said:

If I am reapplying do/should I rewrite my personal statement or can I resubmit the one I used for the 07 cycle. I really liked my first statement but I am afraid med schools will see my resubmisson as a lack of motivation.

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If there is absolutely nothing new or nothing you would change, then a rewrite isn't sensible. (On the other hand, if there is nothing new, then why are you reapplying? Do you expect better results the second time around with the same material?)

I don't know of anyone who goes back and looks at the previous year's application (they aren't readily available). The only time I've caught what you call "a lack of motivation" is when someone recycles a secondary application essay without noticing that the question has changed from the previous year and the old essay no longer fits the bill. Watch out for those secondaries!

Sartre said:

Thank you so much for this great thread!

I know it was mentioned previously that reapplicants need not necessarily rewrite their personal statements ....
I have been working on an entirely new PS, but I still feel it isn't as strong as last year's. I also suspect that many of the schools I applied to last year didn't even get to my personal statement (since my low GPA precluded a more in-depth assessment). I can definitely revise my PS to include recent experiences (all of which relate/apply to the general theme of my essay), but what if I keep the general theme and introductory paragraph? Would I come across as lazy?

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Go ahead and keep the general theme and introductory paragraph. It it was the best part of your application then there is little point in messing with it too much.

mongrel said:

Hi, I have a few questions. Thanks very much for your time spent on this forum!

Question 1)
I have a question about extent of clinical EC's. I made the decision to pursue medicine rather late in my college career after doing around 40 hrs of physician shadowing. I'll be volunteering at my local hospital this summer (in a manner where I'm sure to get good patient contact) and am also planning to apply in the next few weeks as well. Another one of my EC's has been volunteering at our local senior center/Meals of Wheels which I feel is near a clinical experience, albeit not in a hospital.

I'm very confident in my ability to answer the "why medicine" question as I feel my clinical EC's so far have been very meaningful and time well spent. Do you think my limited EC's will be a deal-breaker on my application? Other info about me: 3.95 GPA, 36M MCAT, very active in other school EC's and leadership, lots of lab and work experience in biochem industry.

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Schools that put a premium on research experience & academic performance might find your application very appealing despite the minimal exposure to clinical activities.

Question 2)
The new AMCAS requires one to list any misdemeanors instead of just felonies as in previous years. What is your take on this new section? I ask because I'll be listing a speeding ticket from high school and a public intoxication citation that I received in college (both dumb, I know, and certainly growing experiences).

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From my experience (at just one med school), these shouldn't be a deal breaker. List them, be contrite and state that you learned from the experience, and hope for mercy (we tend to be merciful when we think of our own H.S. and college days).

PAGuyana said:

Hello All:

I am a 35 year old physician assistant with over 7 years of experience at a hospital in an underserved community interested in becoming a physician. Unfortunately, when I began taking my pre-reqs about 15 years ago, I did horribly, even flunking the same classes many times over. This was in part due to my immaturity and some difficult personal circumstances. After this rocky start, I was able to straighten my life out and my grades improved and I became a PA. Currently, I am finishing my pre-reqs at the local 4 year college and am looking forward to applying next year (2008). I am planning on taking the MCAT next year.

That said, can the esteemed members of the committee recommend any ways I can overcome my poor early college fiasco and improve my chances? My BCPM is likely below 3.0 because of this, will I be automatically screened out on this basis? Is medical school admissions basically a numbers game?

Btw, my supervising attending physicians have all promised great letters of recommendations (if this assists you in assessing my situation).

Thanks in advance.

Click to expand...

Given that many medical schools have thousands of applications and can only interview 10-15% of those who apply, the selection of applicants for interview often starts by eliminating those applicants with poor numbers. So, yes, it can be a numbers game. Once you make the initial cut "by the numbers", then your essays, letters of recommendation, and experiences come into play. Because allopathic medical schools count every course ever taken, even if it is later repeated, your AMCAS gpa is likely to look very bad. This is going to be a hole that is almost impossible to exit. On the other hand, osteopathic schools take only the grade from the repeated coursework so you can more easily remediate a poor gpa.

Would you consider osteopathic medicine? You should talk with and shadow some osteopathic physicians to learn of the philosophy and to determine if this might be a good career move for you.

Given that you are working in a role so close to that of a physician, I think you need to reflect on why you want to leave a good paying job for 7 years to train for an incremental step. You'll be asked in interviews about this and you should have an answer that is unrehearsed but which has been well thought out.

Hello all. I am a general surgery intern that was on the admissions committee for a public medical school. I'm here to contribute my $.02, and help in any way I can. Ask away.

uhohspaghettio said:

i wrote about Research in my PS since I've done research. However, many low-tier schools such as RFU, Drexel, and EVMS seek clinicians or primary care physicians. However, my not talking about research doesn't seem wise since doing research helped me understand many medical related stuffs. I am not applying to top tier schools, so do you think mentioning about research is a good move or bad move?

to follow up the previous question about research,

I shouldn't say that " Research is not my thing and I will no longer pursue it. Right?" I, instead, wrote something like " I know research will be an important part of my continued involvement in this field."

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You should describe clearly and concisely your research. It is not important in your PS to indicate whether you plan on a research career. In no case should you indicate a plan for a lifelong research career unless it is really what you plan and you have a clear idea of why this is what you want to do and how it relates to your medical school application.

When asked in an interview about your research, tell the truth. Describe your experiences and then indicate how you feel about doing research in the future. Remember that there are many types of research however, and what you didn't like as an undergrad doesn't say anything about what you might do in the future.

jp235145 said:

I'm a sophomore in college and I really want to go abroad the summer between my junior and senior years. I have been looking into programs and have come across DIS which is a program in Denmark where you take medically related classes. I am considering doing something like that, volunteering somewhere in Africa or India, or doing a type of shadow program in Europe. Which do you think would medical school admissions will look best upon? I do have other medical experience such as working in a physician's office and volunteering at a hospital as well as shadowing many doctors.

Click to expand...

Medical school admissions committee members are interested in understanding why you choose your volunteer opportunity, what you did, what you learned, and how it has affected your career plans. As you can imagine, if we think you picked the program primarily because it sounded better or more humanitarian, and can't handle the other questions well, then it won't be positive.

In other words, go where you want to go and do what you want to do. You and your application will benefit the most that way.

Welcome to the new Medical School Admissions: How can I improve my chances? thread.

What is the purpose of this thread?
The sole purpose of this thread is to help students answer the following question:

How can I improve my chances of admission to medical school?

You are welcome to post SPECIFIC questions asking our mentors for recommendations regarding ways to improve your medical school application.

From this point forward (6/9/07), this will be the only topic addressed in this thread.

Please understand - this thread is not for posting every detail of your application or to ask our mentors how likely you are to receive an acceptance to medical school.

Please do not post "what are my chances" threads or your entire life story.
Brevity is your friend. Your post is much more likely to be answered if your question is brief and to the point.

Inappropriate posts WILL be deleted or moved.
Thank you for your cooperation.


Who will be answering my question?
Questions in this thread will be answered by members of medical school admissions committees (students, faculty and staff) and by medical students, residents or physicians who may share their experiences with the admissions process. You may review the credentials of any mentor by viewing their "Welcome" post.


Do NOT delete this post.

How will an international medical experience affect my medical school application? Should I spend several thousand dollars for a 1-4 week trip to participate in medical care in a “third world” country?

A number of years ago, such experiences were uncommon among applicants and represented a unique way for an applicant to stand out and have something to write about and talk about. More recently, these experiences have become commonplace among applicants and serious questions are being raised about the nature of the experience, what is gained by it and contributed by it, and whether such experiences enhance or detract from a medical school application.

First, it is absolutely necessary to be clear that a short-term medical care mission by an untrained premedical student in a developing country has much more to do with the personal development of the individual going on the trip than enhancing the health of the citizens where the trip is occurring.

Although such trips, when part of a well-established clinic or other international group, do lead to provision of care in poorly served areas, this care is primarily being given by trained professionals, not by pre-professional students. By coming, you are supporting the clinical/project, but you are not the primary health care provider and your financial support is a key aspect to what you are providing.

No student should attempt to provide care for which they are not thoroughly trained and have been properly certified to give. Certainly, it is possible to take an introductory history, assess vital signs and the like, but pre-professional students without specific training (more than a “see one, do one” type of training) should not be doing physical exams, drawing blood, starting IV’s or holding retractors in surgery. You wouldn’t do those things without training in the US and you shouldn’t do them elsewhere except in a true emergency.

In evaluating possible overseas experiences, one should carefully consider how much money you are paying and how that is being used. Evaluate the security and living conditions carefully. Do not rely only on the glowing reviews by others who have gone there. Read the US State Department statements about the country you are going to and think about the implications for your health and safety. Visit a well established travel medicine clinic or physician before going and get your immunizations. All of them. Don’t forget the malaria and travel sickness (and possibly altitude sickness) medicines.

What these trips do provide is an opportunity to experience medical care in a system in which many of the “backups and safety nets” we take for granted (WIC for food, EMS services for transport, 24-hr ER availability) are not available. Seeing how the poor live can be done in the US, but in some areas of the world, the poor have virtually no medical care available. If an international experience expands ones insight into this and into the needs of the global community, it can be valuable. Think about why this community needs to rely on an American to provide their health care needs.

In putting this experience into an application, students should be extremely cautious about overstating what they did, what they saw and how they interpret things. Avoid blanket statements about health care in countries in which you only spent a few weeks. Indicate how the experience caused your personal growth, not that you will now be committed to this as a career. Avoid political statements indicating that the US should do more or is not doing enough in these areas unless you have a good understanding of the whole range of US foreign policy in this area.

Is it worth doing? Well, I would say that it is not much of a benefit to your application. Sure, 2 weeks spent in Africa beats 2 weeks spent on the beach as something to talk about on an interview. However, I am just as impressed by someone volunteering 2 weeks in a nursing home, or an inner city setting in the US than someone who went to Latin America for 2 weeks. Save the money (or give part of it to UNICEF!) and stay home. If you want the experience, want a chance to travel, that’s fine, but don’t be surprised when it has little or no positive effect on your application.

I realize that popular wisdom is that adcoms swoon over these experiences. Popular wisdom is wrong in this case. Any adcom with a year of experience has heard this story a lot and will take it in context. They may ask some very tough questions about why you went, what was accomplished and what it means for your career.