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The debate we were having about BU is directly applicable to our concerns in pre-allo. It's something that all of us are concerned about on both sides. So, why move it?
Why Is an Affirmative Action Debate Moved From Pre-Allo
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Sometimes I wonder why some people on this site become some obsessed with AA topics. It even gets more scary when i realize that some of you guys would definetly be my classmates in the fall. It make me wonder how some of you guys would be able to hide your repressed racial views about minorities to be able to get along with a potential group member that also happens to be a URM. Assuming such a situation arises would you request for a group change or simply drop out of medical school because in your view the URM simply does not deserve a chance to chase their dream? As a URM who worked their butt off through college, I find it sad that I should have to prove myself to anybody especially some kid who fails look beyond their restricted perspective to realize that not everyone has had the same opportunities in life.
Surely, AA is a bad system that invariably creates an injustice in society but i would hope that you all can see necesity of such a system. So until a better system is derived you guys should realize that it is not AA that is keeping you out of the medical school of your choice. The fact that you and I might have a GPA of 3.5 an above or scored a 30+ on out MCAT should not guarantee us a spot in medical school. And for those of you that cannot accept this fact it might be time to look into other professions because it should be clear to everone that some form of AA would factor in medical school admissions for the next few years. Damn, why do i even bother, there must be a lot more constructive things i could be doing with my time😕
Surely, AA is a bad system that invariably creates an injustice in society but i would hope that you all can see necesity of such a system. So until a better system is derived you guys should realize that it is not AA that is keeping you out of the medical school of your choice. The fact that you and I might have a GPA of 3.5 an above or scored a 30+ on out MCAT should not guarantee us a spot in medical school. And for those of you that cannot accept this fact it might be time to look into other professions because it should be clear to everone that some form of AA would factor in medical school admissions for the next few years. Damn, why do i even bother, there must be a lot more constructive things i could be doing with my time😕
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this is a serious addiction
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supereagles, you came in at the end of the debate. You weren't even contributing to what we were contending with the other day regarding BU's early admissions program. So, you have no idea what you are talking about.
BU has a program that selects URM's for an early assurance. It's a program built on and supported by subpar performances. It's closed to non-urms. Do you think that that is right? It's not based on socioeconomics, it's based on race. It's programs like that which perpetuate racial stereoptypes. It's programs like that which cause many of us to feel, well to actually know, that there is to standards for judging applicants. If you're black or hispanic, you get a nod regardless of your socioeconomic background.
This BU program reports and average MCAT score of an 18 and GPA of a 3.0. This is a US allopathic program. Does that sound reasonable. Open it up to disadvantaged white and asian applicants.
So, why do we bother, because injustice is injustice. And yes, I will judge and be skeptical of a URM in my class. Wouldn't you? Wouldn't you wonder if they slipped through? Programs like this hurt urms. It does help.
BU has a program that selects URM's for an early assurance. It's a program built on and supported by subpar performances. It's closed to non-urms. Do you think that that is right? It's not based on socioeconomics, it's based on race. It's programs like that which perpetuate racial stereoptypes. It's programs like that which cause many of us to feel, well to actually know, that there is to standards for judging applicants. If you're black or hispanic, you get a nod regardless of your socioeconomic background.
This BU program reports and average MCAT score of an 18 and GPA of a 3.0. This is a US allopathic program. Does that sound reasonable. Open it up to disadvantaged white and asian applicants.
So, why do we bother, because injustice is injustice. And yes, I will judge and be skeptical of a URM in my class. Wouldn't you? Wouldn't you wonder if they slipped through? Programs like this hurt urms. It does help.
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Oh well....While you're judging and working your way straight to hell, everyone else in your class will be working on AOA and the boards. And If anyone in your class has any sense, they'll probably be skeptical of you, Cuz racism is only cute for the first 4 seconds....So go on and be bitter about not making anything of your life, and blame it all on the next mexican who (unfortunately for you) was just a little bit better and actually went to Harvard, or Yale, or Stanford, or all the other schools that you just didn't have what it took to get into.
Are you done whining yet?
D
deleted36260
Or maybe you will sit around while racist programs continue to undermine the goal of equality based on character, and not color? 🙂 You can minimized such posts on this site as whining, the fact is that being skeptical takes no more time than being happy, sad, mad, glad, or any other emotion (all of which you can do while studing for the boards 😉 )
Like you said racism is only cute for the first four seconds - so while you say "I'll just find a way around this", I will also be going one step further to examine and fix the problem, so I can live in a country that doesn't implement racist programs 🙂
If "that mexican" was just a little bit better than him, then he would have been accepted without AA anyways.... and rightfully so.
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You sound quite intelligent-skeptical and rather short sighted- yet you make a couple of good points. An MCAT of 18 is rather scarely and is a poor reflection of AA programs. Yet the fact that students with such low scores end up meeting the expectations in medical schools and making great doctors is an indication that these students are inherently intelligent and in my view validates AA programs. So no i would not spend my time wondering if someone slipped through the cracks to make it to medical school, rather i would offer my support to my classmates that might not find it as easy handling their course work. four years is a long time to spend walking a chip on your shoulder. However, if you continue to think like you do I hope that we do not find ourselves in the same class, that would definitely end up as a bad experience😱
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judge me all you want. I'm not mean spirited. I'm not a racist. Historically my people, jews, have been and still are discriminated against. ANd I am a Harvard student. I have worked hard for what I've gotten. I'm currently accepted at 3 MD programs.
I'm not going to be worried about urms in my class that got in on a different standard, but to say that it's not going to impact the way I view urms in the future, the way all of us view them, is naive. People make assumptions. This policy is hurting people. I'm advocating for a program that will help all people regardless of race. I come from a priveleged background. I don't deny it. But I feel an obligation to help everyone, the poor irish kid from Boston and the black kid from philly. I believe that it's an question of economics and class and not race. If we select based on race, that's wrong.
Just because they are passing medical school doesn't support any argument. THey are held to a lower standard because they are given multiple breaks and chances to be successful. They are getting support the entire way. Tons of money is being pumped into a system to keep them afloat. They are a drain on an academic system. ANd there is no proof that these black kids didn't come from an affluent background. All we know is that this program is designed to enhance the numbers of minorities in medicine. Lets improve the quality of life for all people and not just a select few based on race.
And trust me, I will to fine in medical school. I will be a success, not because I expect a handout, but because I'll work hard. I would encourage all of us to do our best and to expect the most from each other and not rationalize why others are not as successful by saying that they might be more compassionate...stupidity doesn't correlate with compassion if that was true Tyson would be a the next great humanitarian.
I'm not going to be worried about urms in my class that got in on a different standard, but to say that it's not going to impact the way I view urms in the future, the way all of us view them, is naive. People make assumptions. This policy is hurting people. I'm advocating for a program that will help all people regardless of race. I come from a priveleged background. I don't deny it. But I feel an obligation to help everyone, the poor irish kid from Boston and the black kid from philly. I believe that it's an question of economics and class and not race. If we select based on race, that's wrong.
Just because they are passing medical school doesn't support any argument. THey are held to a lower standard because they are given multiple breaks and chances to be successful. They are getting support the entire way. Tons of money is being pumped into a system to keep them afloat. They are a drain on an academic system. ANd there is no proof that these black kids didn't come from an affluent background. All we know is that this program is designed to enhance the numbers of minorities in medicine. Lets improve the quality of life for all people and not just a select few based on race.
And trust me, I will to fine in medical school. I will be a success, not because I expect a handout, but because I'll work hard. I would encourage all of us to do our best and to expect the most from each other and not rationalize why others are not as successful by saying that they might be more compassionate...stupidity doesn't correlate with compassion if that was true Tyson would be a the next great humanitarian.
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An 18 is scary low, but once again, this doesn't cause me to question AA, but two other things:
1. The program's judgement in not requiring a better score.
2. The students for not doing some minimal studying to get a better score.
If somebody passes all of the prereqs with a 3.0, I think they're capable of far better than an 18.
I'm still for AA. I think there's no problem with prefering URM candidates in an otherwise comparable applicant pool. I also think this is the general rule. I applied as a URM with pretty good scores & have been accepted and rejected at schools along with non-URM students of like numbers. This has led me to believe that my ethnicity didn't play such a big part.
1. The program's judgement in not requiring a better score.
2. The students for not doing some minimal studying to get a better score.
If somebody passes all of the prereqs with a 3.0, I think they're capable of far better than an 18.
I'm still for AA. I think there's no problem with prefering URM candidates in an otherwise comparable applicant pool. I also think this is the general rule. I applied as a URM with pretty good scores & have been accepted and rejected at schools along with non-URM students of like numbers. This has led me to believe that my ethnicity didn't play such a big part.
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But please stop using Jewish ethnicity as an excuse for your personal beliefs. I sympathize with the discrimination you have experienced, as I have dealth with the same. I drew an opposite belief from it though. I want to stop the racism that has hurt you, me, and others, & believe AA is one of many tools to do that.
D
deleted36260
Why don't we move all this back to the other AA thread that is in progress?
Why don't we move all this back to the other AA thread that is in progress?
Why don't we move all this back to the other AA thread that is in progress?
Why don't we move all this back to the other AA thread that is in progress?
Why don't we move all this back to the other AA thread that is in progress?
Why don't we move all this back to the other AA thread that is in progress?
Why don't we move all this back to the other AA thread that is in progress?
Why don't we move all this back to the other AA thread that is in progress?
Why don't we move all this back to the other AA thread that is in progress?
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I don't want extra benefits for being jewish. ALthough, how often have we heard rhetoric from radical fundamentalist muslim blacks about how evil jews are? It's divisive and attacking.
I'm not asking for remediation for things of the past. I'm asking for fairness now. Can you imagine a school like Sinai starting a link program designed to only advance jewish students? Can you imagine Jewish students settling for a 3.0 and 18 MCAT?
I'm saying that if you live in an economically impoverished environment, your chances of success have been diminished. AA is not the answer. If it is applied based on socioeconomics it's a better approach. Just giving the benefits to a few based on color or ethnicity is wrong. It's wrong. I'm not saying I'm pro jewish. I'm pro people. People automatically call someone a racist when they question policies that benefit blacks. It's not that. I'm just in disagreement, vehmently, I might add.
I'm worried about my seat in a class. I'm worried about a diminishing profession. I'm worried about fairness. THis is based on principle. We need to stand up for what is right. Advancing people based on color, race is wrong. This doesn't fix it.
I'm not asking for remediation for things of the past. I'm asking for fairness now. Can you imagine a school like Sinai starting a link program designed to only advance jewish students? Can you imagine Jewish students settling for a 3.0 and 18 MCAT?
I'm saying that if you live in an economically impoverished environment, your chances of success have been diminished. AA is not the answer. If it is applied based on socioeconomics it's a better approach. Just giving the benefits to a few based on color or ethnicity is wrong. It's wrong. I'm not saying I'm pro jewish. I'm pro people. People automatically call someone a racist when they question policies that benefit blacks. It's not that. I'm just in disagreement, vehmently, I might add.
I'm worried about my seat in a class. I'm worried about a diminishing profession. I'm worried about fairness. THis is based on principle. We need to stand up for what is right. Advancing people based on color, race is wrong. This doesn't fix it.
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The reason why is because it was a rule set a long time ago that is enforced as often as the moderators get around to enforcing it.
The reason the rule was set is because if we let debates on things like AA run rampant, it distorts the meaning of the pre-allo forum. First, it clutters up the legitimate questions of pre-meds who want to know more about the admissions process as it pertains to them. Second, it gives the site a negative image--e.g. When I talk to people outside of this site, I don't want them saying "all they ever do on SDN is bitch about AA or whatever", which is something I frequently hear. Part of this is also the nature of these debates, which frequently (invariably?) involve flaming and ugliness that interferes with the welcoming nature of SDN.
Therefore the SDN crew feels that it's better to have these long standing debates somewhere else, in a forum created specifically for current events and other debates.
I am now closing this thread.
The reason the rule was set is because if we let debates on things like AA run rampant, it distorts the meaning of the pre-allo forum. First, it clutters up the legitimate questions of pre-meds who want to know more about the admissions process as it pertains to them. Second, it gives the site a negative image--e.g. When I talk to people outside of this site, I don't want them saying "all they ever do on SDN is bitch about AA or whatever", which is something I frequently hear. Part of this is also the nature of these debates, which frequently (invariably?) involve flaming and ugliness that interferes with the welcoming nature of SDN.
Therefore the SDN crew feels that it's better to have these long standing debates somewhere else, in a forum created specifically for current events and other debates.
I am now closing this thread.
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