Are there enough RESIDENCY slots this year?

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Just a comment: I visited a few programs in the NE region and I was surprised to hear that there are programs that are technically approved for 3 spots, but only listing 2 on CASPR.

I was told by the director of one program that not too long ago there were more spots than applicants, so each year they kept one spot open. They ask the current residents each year whether or not they want to open the spot and obviously if they feel they're getting more solo time they will say no. I'm not sure how common this practice is, but I hope the directors of these programs reconsider given the current shortage, especially when their current residents are meeting their numbers mid second year.

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Residency shortage is a concern, but mostly for students who are at the bottom 50% of the class.

As for the current situation, it does not seem too bad according to the numbers posted. I would start worrying if 50% of graduating students are not getting residency.

Residency directors are probably not worrying that much about the current situation because they will be getting more qualified students fighting for their spots.
 
do you think the hospital board wants to deal with all this nonsense?


I agree that they find it confusing but don't you think that this is 1 step closer to standardization? I mean the next step would be to mandate RRA but we are in the midst of a residency shortage. It would not be smart to mandate RRA at this moment...hopefully in a a couple of years?
 
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I agree that they find it confusing but don't you think that this is 1 step closer to standardization? I mean the next step would be to mandate RRA but we are in the midst of a residency shortage. It would not be smart to mandate RRA at this moment...hopefully in a a couple of years?

Standardization would be great. The problem is that the VAST MAJORITY of pods do NOT do a lot of RF cases. Regardless of length of programs, as long as there are MINIMUM competencies and as long as ALL PODIATRISTS can have access to this valuable training is crucial to the well being of the profession and the patient population.

Those going INTO residency programs and those who are current residents in these spectacular programs will graduate and go into practice. Most will NOT develop a residency. There needs to be more of an attitude of giving back, becoming new residency directors, and teaching more pods how to do this great work they are doing.
 
I got some information that there were many students that did not get a program. I think this is terrible. You take out all that loan money, all the schooling & no residency. People like myself who wanted another try at a program also have nothing.

Why all of you like this PMS 36 I have no idea. What if you were left with nothing. When I graduated we had a lot of 1 year slots, not everyone matched, but just about everyone got a slot from my class. Yes I matched.

If this is the direction of Podiatry, it is downhill. There will never be enough programs, because schools will take anyone. Yes, my school even had a student who did not take the MCAT.

Fact: to many students
to few postions (due to PMS 36 vs PPMR POR PMS12 RPR)

Can't have it all.
 
I got some information that there were many students that did not get a program. I think this is terrible. You take out all that loan money, all the schooling & no residency. People like myself who wanted another try at a program also have nothing.

Why all of you like this PMS 36 I have no idea. What if you were left with nothing. When I graduated we had a lot of 1 year slots, not everyone matched, but just about everyone got a slot from my class. Yes I matched.

If this is the direction of Podiatry, it is downhill. There will never be enough programs, because schools will take anyone. Yes, my school even had a student who did not take the MCAT.

Fact: to many students
to few postions (due to PMS 36 vs PPMR POR PMS12 RPR)

Can't have it all.

I am not going to say the residency situation isn't an issue (because it is) but if you are not going to cite your sources then you are wasting everyone's time here. Your "word" isn't good enough in these anonymous forums.

Based on all your past posts (which are all negative btw) it sounds like you are just bitter because you needed/ wanted to land a spot in this past match cycle.
 
Yes, it certainly is an issue, do not ignore the problem. I matched years ago & was placed. NO...I did NOT partake in the match this year because I already knew of the shortage. I found no need to spend more money ranking programs when I knew that they would go to the new graduates, which I think they should.

My point was: many graduates ( students )did not get a programs. I feel bad for them. That was all I was saying. Go to your school's placement director & ask that person. They would be able to give you the exact number in the shortage. Very simple.
 
My point was: many graduates ( students )did not get a programs. I feel bad for them. That was all I was saying. Go to your school's placement director & ask that person. They would be able to give you the exact number in the shortage. Very simple.

Way to avoid answering the question. Who is your source? You don't have source do you? Just posting another negative and mindless post on a topic that has been beaten to death?

Yup that about sums it up...
 
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Way to avoid answering the question. Who is your source? You don't have source do you? Just posting another negative and mindless post on a topic that has been beaten to death?

Yup that about sums it up...


What does my source have to do with it. I just said ...ask the school's placement director for the numbers...is that a good hint. I am not going to give someone's name or oragniaztion on here. I respect there privacy.

If you are in the profession you know where to get that information, it is readily available you.
 
He is asking for written proof. Such as an article. The reason to give a source is to back up a claim rather then looking like a fear monger using anecdotal evidence to scare people.

You may very well be correct. He just wants to know where you got this information.
 
He is asking for written proof. Such as an article. The reason to give a source is to back up a claim rather then looking like a fear monger using anecdotal evidence to scare people.

You may very well be correct. He just wants to know where you got this information.

I did not write to anyone, hence no written proof. I asked. You can also ask if you are intersted.
 
I got some information that there were many students that did not get a program. I think this is terrible. You take out all that loan money, all the schooling & no residency. People like myself who wanted another try at a program also have nothing.

You're claiming you know something here.

It appears your agenda is to try and discourage us for no good reason.

We all know the residency situation is a bid deal (hence the many posts and replies in this thread). I still have not gotten the chance to hear what the final numbers were nor has anyone provided any legit evidence as well.

I will be sure to ask my residency director at Scholl once I arrive at school.
 
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No numbers were ever posted on these boards? When you go to school, you'll see what he means. We knew the numbers the next day, exact numbers. Just have to know who to ask (and what conversations to overhear!)
 
No numbers were ever posted on these boards? When you go to school, you'll see what he means. We knew the numbers the next day, exact numbers. Just have to know who to ask (and what conversations to overhear!)

Thank you Savant, we did know the numbers right away. Like Savant says....you have to know who to ask.

Remeber I matched...years ago.
 
I remember hearing exact numbers right after the match and scramble, but I don't remember them. I don't think those numbers were finalized, and I don't know for sure what those numbers are like now, because I know that there were programs that were up for accredidation between March and now, and I have no idea which ones got approved and will be taking a resident or two, and how many there even are. Perhaps someone knows (and has a source to prove it), but I don't.
 
Thank you ldsrmdude,

This whole residency thing appears to be pretty fluid with programs constantly opening and closing at different times. Therefore it is prob pretty hard to get the most accurate numbers. I did e-mail the residency director at Scholl several months ago expressing my concern, as an incoming student, about this whole situation. He even couldn't give me a straight answer since the numbers continually change with the initial match, then the scramble, and then programs that were up for accredidation (as ldsrmdude alluded to). I will be sure to sit down with him once I get to Chicago and see if I can get to the bottom of this.
 
Thank you ldsrmdude,

This whole residency thing appears to be pretty fluid with programs constantly opening and closing at different times. Therefore it is prob pretty hard to get the most accurate numbers. I did e-mail the residency director at Scholl several months ago expressing my concern, as an incoming student, about this whole situation. He even couldn't give me a straight answer since the numbers continually change with the initial match, then the scramble, and then programs that were up for accredidation (as ldsrmdude alluded to). I will be sure to sit down with him once I get to Chicago and see if I can get to the bottom of this.
:thumbup: Let us know.
 
I wondered if anyone had conatct with their residency directors or professional org. in reference to there not being enough programs.

I talked to a few places. One organization told me about 50 students did not get a spot, the other organization told me that was all true.

Thanks
 
I wondered if anyone had conatct with their residency directors or professional org. in reference to there not being enough programs.

I talked to a few places. One organization told me about 50 students did not get a spot, the other organization told me that was all true.

Thanks
Seems like quite a bit.:scared:
 
Did anyone get in touch with someone to find out how many where actually left with no program?
 
The better question is, how many of those 20-ish students who didn't match failed one (or both) of their boards??

I agree and let's throw in other factors...



From what I have read and heard on why students don't match:
  1. Don't pass boards
  2. Didn't effectively utilize their externships
  3. Didn't use any strategy or common sense during the Match process
  4. Bottom 20% of their respected class
There are a lot of factors that go into why students don't match...it's not simply because there are not enough spots. Could it be (dare I say it) they just are not qualified for residency training?
 
Could it be (dare I say it) they just are not qualified for residency training?

Some people think that if you take out the loans and go into massive debt and then barely get by in school for 4 years, that "qualifies" you and even entitles you to residency training. Obviously there are some residency directors out there who don't agree.

I think some people are indeed unlucky and don't find a program, but there are some who are unmatchable because they didn't get enough out of their education.
 
As a side note, here's something interesting:

Last night, current DMU students got an email from our dean. It stated that everyone in last year's graduating class (52 students) had been placed into a residency program. Not super impressive considering it is now the end of July and the match was in March...but it's something for the school to brag about to potential candidates, and it's not something that every school can say.
 
As a side note, here's something interesting:

Last night, current DMU students got an email from our dean. It stated that everyone in last year's graduating class (52 students) had been placed into a residency program. Not super impressive considering it is now the end of July and the match was in March...but it's something for the school to brag about to potential candidates, and it's not something that every school can say.

This is true, I recieved an email last night from Dr. Yoho stating ALL 52 students got a residency spot... Glad I choose to attend DMU :thumbup:
 
I agree and let's throw in other factors...






From what I have read and heard on why students don't match:
  1. Don't pass boards
  2. Didn't effectively utilize their externships
  3. Didn't use any strategy or common sense during the Match process
  4. Bottom 20% of their respected class
There are a lot of factors that go into why students don't match...it's not simply because there are not enough spots. Could it be (dare I say it) they just are not qualified for residency training?

What you heard & read is not exactly true.
1. When I took boards, my CASPR forms had already been completed.
2. I could not afford to travel, all my externships were done local.
3. I only applied to 2 progarms & matched.
4. I was an average student.
 
We had someone at my old program that had not past part I, part II, and had like a 1.9 GPA. The school had apparently tried to let them go (to spare them the inevitable) but the person lawyered up. The person has absolutely no chance. And they were honestly a horrible extern. Now, I've been through the entire process and I know that grades aren't everything and things do happen but I have to wonder how many more of those are out there.

And in the words of my residency coordinator, "Man, I really need to start reading these externship applications." :)
 
What you heard & read is not exactly true.
1. When I took boards, my CASPR forms had already been completed.
2. I could not afford to travel, all my externships were done local.
3. I only applied to 2 progarms & matched.
4. I was an average student.

As I stated before, I graduated a while ago. I was just looking for another program.
 
As I stated before, I graduated a while ago. I was just looking for another program.

Are you applying thru CASPR? By now you must "know people", such as residency directors, or have friends working with programs. Surprisingly, I started visiting programs and have been VERY well received. It's turning out that residency directors appreciate my prior experience, dedication to podiatry, and eagerness to learn. Don't be discouraged by the number of students applying. Like others have said on here, there may be a high number of poor candidates applying. Are you looking for advanced training or to start out as a 1st year resident?

The whole CASPR CRIP expense may be used as a write off for your practice. Since Insurance Companies are denying me coverage due to lack of residency training, to meet the need of my current job, it would be a tax deduction. So would all of the travel to visit programs, new books and study guides, etc. It helps that I have a great accountant too.
 
What you heard & read is not exactly true.
1. When I took boards, my CASPR forms had already been completed.
2. I could not afford to travel, all my externships were done local.
3. I only applied to 2 progarms & matched.
4. I was an average student.

I have heard the same thing that studywithfury posted from a Residency Director.

As you stated, you matched a long time ago. It seems like studywithfury's post is geared more towards the current match process.
 
Did anyone get in touch with someone to find out how many where actually left with no program?

From the APMSA:

"While there are a few students seeking positions from the 2010 cycle, there are students who have not passed Part II that have residencies! To be frank, sometimes programs would rather stick with the students they have developed a rapport with and chosen after finding out they have not passed Part II, as opposed to dealing with slim picking left after the scramble. Please see current status of the 2010 cycle below.

· As of Jul15 the disposition of the placement of the Class of 2010 was as follows:
· 469 of 503 have been placed into residency training positions
· 18 are still seeking placement of which 9 have passed both parts of the national boards
· 17 are not seeking placement
· Some programs have accepted placement of graduates who have not passed the boards
· 30 students from previous cycles entered the c/o 2010 cycle
.o .10 of those students matched"


There you have it.
 
Good Post. This is what SDN needs. Cold Hard facts from a true source rather than speculation from pod students and pre-pods.

This is an unfortunate situation for these students that are still looking for a position here in august. But these numbers are better than numbers that were quoted after match day by attendings at our school. Although this is still a huge problem (6.75% did not get a program) it seems as though the situation is getting better, and hopefully it will be cut down to 2-3% within the next few years. There is a bright side, so lets keep chugging along guys, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

It seems as though passing of parts and I & II boards is still a gray area. We are told at school and if you look at the residency applications we are required to pass boards and I and II.

So basically 9 of the 34 who did not match are qualified applicants from the class of 2010.
 
So basically 9 of the 34 who did not match are qualified applicants from the class of 2010.

I would like to see some GPA's, EC's of these 9 "qualified" applicants whom did not match
 
Good Post. This is what SDN needs. Cold Hard facts from a true source rather than speculation from pod students and pre-pods.

This is an unfortunate situation for these students that are still looking for a position here in august. But these numbers are better than numbers that were quoted after match day by attendings at our school. Although this is still a huge problem (6.75% did not get a program) it seems as though the situation is getting better, and hopefully it will be cut down to 2-3% within the next few years. There is a bright side, so lets keep chugging along guys, there is light at the end of the tunnel.

It seems as though passing of parts and I & II boards is still a gray area. We are told at school and if you look at the residency applications we are required to pass boards and I and II.

So basically 9 of the 34 who did not match are qualified applicants from the class of 2010.

If the newly revised CPME 320 document gets approved, the new CPME 320 will be effective starting July 2011. According to item 3.6 of the newly revised CPME 320 document, "The sponsoring institution shall accept only graduates of colleges of podiatric medicine accredited by the Council on Podiatric Medical Education. All applicants shall have passed the Parts I and II examinations of the National Board of Podiatric Medical Examiners prior to beginning the residency." Hence, starting with the current 4th year students (Class of 2011) and any previous candidates re-entering the CASPR cycle this year, the candidate must pass both Part I and II exams prior to start of residency. Your school was correct to inform you of this.
 
I've been reading this post for a while now and I feel compelled to put in my $.02. Being a new resident and having had a couple of months of students externing at my program, I can see now why students don't match. It honestly really has nothing to do with how smart you are because honestly, you only need borderline booksmarts to get by. The biggest thing that won't get you a spot isn't where you're ranked in your class, GPA seems to be more of an interview qualifier than an actual criteria to match and obviously, the majority of programs don't want residents that didn't pass any of their boards (although Part III taken early on without passing would be an exception to the rule). The biggest reason I've seen so far as to students that externed and that have (no pun intended) shot themselves in foot is their work ethic.

Over sleeping for grand rounds = deal breaker (especially if you've already been to 2 or 3 weeks of them prior); not being able to do a progress note or pre-op H&P on a computer system that has PREFORMED TEMPLATES and smartphrases (or in general, not being able to do a basic prog note/preop H&P without a computer system) = deal breaker; After 2 days of being at the program, being in on surgery and the resident either has to STILL ask you to get the room ready or get whatever is specific for students at that program (cast bucket at mine, tourniquet, etc) or has to tell you to go write the note = deal breaker; Disappearing for 10 min every 1-2 hours without any trace (I will just say it, if you smoke, don't let us know about it) = deal breaker; Going over basic anatomy for your presentation when you have attendings who have been practicing for >25 years, going over your allotted time, not knowing ANY research that you did your topic on, having less than, oh lets say 10 citations for your topic (if you have 10 or less, that's ok, but you better know them in and out) = deal breaker; writing a prog note on an inpatient (including physical exam) without having even seen the patient and even worse, focused LE exam without even taking down the dressing (not a post-op pt) = deal breaker; not having the pts dressing taken down before the residents get there = deal breaker.

Overall, doing any one of these things in isolation isn't a big deal, it happens, own it, accept it, remedy it and move on (AND make sure it doesn't happen again), but repeatedly over and over throughout the month, it just looks bad on you.

The underlying theme to this post is COMMON SENSE. I'm going to bold this again, COMMON SENSE. You can't teach it, but if you lack it, I guarantee you will have a tough time matching and then you'll be on here whining about not matching into your top program or any program for that manner. We've all had struggles in externships and residency, God knows I'm not flawless, but the students and residents that seem to do the best are the ones that do the little things the best, they pay attention to the minutia, the details. If your goal is to make the residents day a little easier and less stressful, then you've done your job as student. There's going to be things you won't be able to do, that the resident has to take care of, that's fine, but the things you can do, just do them. Don't let me catch you bitching about it in the hallway, that's another deal breaker. We all had to be someones bitch at some point along the way, it's part of the process. Again, own it, master it, move on.

COMMON SENSE gets you a residency spot, guaranteed. Personality would be the next thing, then smarts. Although I will caveat this with at my program (which I will not name on here for aninimity purposes), you do have to have some intelligence, but as far as daily stuff with the residents go, I'd rather have someone who works their butt off than someone who can tell me all the indications and contraindications for putting in a STAR, that comes in residency.

WORK HARD and HAVE COMMON SENSE and DON'T BE A D-BAG and you'll be just fine.
 
I've been reading this post for a while now and I feel compelled to put in my $.02. Being a new resident and having had a couple of months of students externing at my program, I can see now why students don't match. It honestly really has nothing to do with how smart you are because honestly, you only need borderline booksmarts to get by. The biggest thing that won't get you a spot isn't where you're ranked in your class, GPA seems to be more of an interview qualifier than an actual criteria to match and obviously, the majority of programs don't want residents that didn't pass any of their boards (although Part III taken early on without passing would be an exception to the rule). The biggest reason I've seen so far as to students that externed and that have (no pun intended) shot themselves in foot is their work ethic.

Over sleeping for grand rounds = deal breaker (especially if you've already been to 2 or 3 weeks of them prior); not being able to do a progress note or pre-op H&P on a computer system that has PREFORMED TEMPLATES and smartphrases (or in general, not being able to do a basic prog note/preop H&P without a computer system) = deal breaker; After 2 days of being at the program, being in on surgery and the resident either has to STILL ask you to get the room ready or get whatever is specific for students at that program (cast bucket at mine, tourniquet, etc) or has to tell you to go write the note = deal breaker; Disappearing for 10 min every 1-2 hours without any trace (I will just say it, if you smoke, don't let us know about it) = deal breaker; Going over basic anatomy for your presentation when you have attendings who have been practicing for >25 years, going over your allotted time, not knowing ANY research that you did your topic on, having less than, oh lets say 10 citations for your topic (if you have 10 or less, that's ok, but you better know them in and out) = deal breaker; writing a prog note on an inpatient (including physical exam) without having even seen the patient and even worse, focused LE exam without even taking down the dressing (not a post-op pt) = deal breaker; not having the pts dressing taken down before the residents get there = deal breaker.

Overall, doing any one of these things in isolation isn't a big deal, it happens, own it, accept it, remedy it and move on (AND make sure it doesn't happen again), but repeatedly over and over throughout the month, it just looks bad on you.

The underlying theme to this post is COMMON SENSE. I'm going to bold this again, COMMON SENSE. You can't teach it, but if you lack it, I guarantee you will have a tough time matching and then you'll be on here whining about not matching into your top program or any program for that manner. We've all had struggles in externships and residency, God knows I'm not flawless, but the students and residents that seem to do the best are the ones that do the little things the best, they pay attention to the minutia, the details. If your goal is to make the residents day a little easier and less stressful, then you've done your job as student. There's going to be things you won't be able to do, that the resident has to take care of, that's fine, but the things you can do, just do them. Don't let me catch you bitching about it in the hallway, that's another deal breaker. We all had to be someones bitch at some point along the way, it's part of the process. Again, own it, master it, move on.

COMMON SENSE gets you a residency spot, guaranteed. Personality would be the next thing, then smarts. Although I will caveat this with at my program (which I will not name on here for aninimity purposes), you do have to have some intelligence, but as far as daily stuff with the residents go, I'd rather have someone who works their butt off than someone who can tell me all the indications and contraindications for putting in a STAR, that comes in residency.

WORK HARD and HAVE COMMON SENSE and DON'T BE A D-BAG and you'll be just fine.

I completely agree. As a student, these were things that I learned to do quick and well. It all seemed so obvious. However, when I became a resident and students started rotating through my program, I was shocked at how many were set on doing the bare minimum. But it made it that much easier for those that did work hard.
 
Great post densmore. Going to make sure I become more proficient in these areas before externing anywhere. Say you do have a rough time starting out in an externship do they respect you at least doing your best at all of these things you mentioned even if you do get a bad start or have less than perfect skills?
 
Great post densmore. Going to make sure I become more proficient in these areas before externing anywhere. Say you do have a rough time starting out in an externship do they respect you at least doing your best at all of these things you mentioned even if you do get a bad start or have less than perfect skills?

Too specific of questions get asked on here by all sorts of people. I don't have an answer to your question. You will just have to work hard from day 1 to day 31. Do your thing and it should all work out.
 
This was in the PMNews today:
RE: The Residency Shortage Crisis
From: Gregg Young, DPM
As you are probably aware, we have a crisis within the profession. We currently have 12 students from the class of 2010 who don’t have a residency training program, and to our knowledge, there are no vacant first-year spots in the country. This situation is going to be worse for 2011 as we anticipate 50 more graduates. This is not a case of colleges taking too many students as we actually need an additional 100 graduates per year above the 2011 number to replace the graduates from the '70s and '80s. A profession can’t shrink its way to success.
We have a Developing a Podiatric Residency Training Program kit which is available at COTHweb.org. This site requires a login which is available by emailing Carol Jensen [email protected]. There are sample materials available for almost all of the documents, which must be personalized for your institution. There are experienced directors available to answer questions and help you through the process. We can arrange for someone to speak with your CEO, if necessary. Fiscal ’08 Medicare Reimbursement Data for your institution is available. Now is the time to step up and give something back to your profession by assisting in the residency development process.
After you contact our office, we will be able to offer you assistance in developing a plan for identifying and securing the resources needed for a training program. If applicable, we can connect you with others in your area who have expressed interest so that you might support one another. Please help us to move forward to address this shortage of training positions.
Gregg Young, DPM, Chairman, Council on Teaching Hospitals,
[email protected]
He doesn't address the issue of whether those 12 students that are without a spot have passed their boards or anything, but at least this is a solid number from someone in the know.
 
Gregg said:
we have a crisis within the profession...This situation is going to be worse for 2011 as we anticipate 50 more graduates.

Crisis, yes. Getting worse, yes. Anticipate 50 more graduates you say?? O'rly. Taking into account a new school and enrollment increases at the others and you see that there's been more students added than residency spots closed in the same time. Now you can see very clearly where the "problem" lies.

In crisis mode we should be thinking quick response to a problem which is twofold (too many students and not enough spots), and if you have half a brain you'd see that it's lot quicker to cut your enrollment than to increase the number of residency spots, so why isn't this your short term goal?

Adding insult to injury, they knew this shortage was coming 5 years ago, and they still allowed schools to increase enrollment!

Gregg said:
A profession can't shrink its way to success.
Wow, way to miss the "crisis" big guy. The only way podiatry can shrink is if there were less students than spots, and quite frankly that's a better situation for us as that would mean 12 less students 200k in debt with no place to train. Actually, we can't shrink in the "crisis" as you define it because the rate limiting step isn't students, it's number of residencies!

The problem isn't the slow growth of podiatry anyway, it's the saturation of students with not enough residency spots.

Gregg said:
This is not a case of colleges taking too many students
Oh no? Than what's it from genius? Did we loose more spots than we gained students over the last 5 years? NO! And to say it was a combination of both is just a flat out misrepresentation of facts.

Gregg said:
as we actually need an additional 100 graduates per year above the 2011 number to replace the graduates from the '70s and '80s.
Really? Because surveys show podiatrists are more likely to work past retirement age, so lets do the math. If I graduated podiatry school in the early 70's that would make me..hmm...22+ 0, 1 or 2 years of residency (no 3 or 4 year in the 70's or 80's)...oh, somewhere in the early 60's today? Am I retiring soon? I think not. What if I graduated in the 80s? I'd be in my mid 50s today. How many podiatrist are retiring at 50?

Yeh. This is a crock of $hit. Sorry, do the responsible thing and control your enrollment and stop blowing smoke up our @sses. Your lack of foresight and disregard for our students financial and professional well being all to make a buck make me want to vomit in my mouth a little.

/rant vs gregg
 
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maybe those 12 should have been a little more personally accountable for their podiatric education?
 
Crisis, yes. Getting worse, yes. Anticipate 50 more graduates you say?? O'rly. Taking into account a new school and enrollment increases at the others and you see that there's been more students added than residency spots closed in the same time. Now you can see very clearly where the "problem" lies.

In crisis mode we should be thinking quick response to a problem which is twofold (too many students and not enough spots), and if you have half a brain you'd see that it's lot quicker to cut your enrollment than to increase the number of residency spots, so why isn't this your short term goal?

Adding insult to injury, they knew this shortage was coming 5 years ago, and they still allowed schools to increase enrollment!

Wow, way to miss the "crisis" big guy. The only way podiatry can shrink is if there were less students than spots, and quite frankly that's a better situation for us as that would mean 12 less students 200k in debt with no place to train. Actually, we can't shrink in the "crisis" as you define it because the rate limiting step isn't students, it's number of residencies!

The problem isn't the slow growth of podiatry anyway, it's the saturation of students with not enough residency spots.

Oh no? Than what's it from genius? Did we loose more spots than we gained students over the last 5 years? NO! And to say it was a combination of both is just a flat out misrepresentation of facts.

Really? Because surveys show podiatrists are more likely to work past retirement age, so lets do the math. If I graduated podiatry school in the early 70's that would make me..hmm...22+ 0, 1 or 2 years of residency (no 3 or 4 year in the 70's or 80's)...oh, somewhere in the early 60's today? Am I retiring soon? I think not. What if I graduated in the 80s? I'd be in my mid 50s today. How many podiatrist are retiring at 50?

Yeh. This is a crock of $hit. Sorry, do the responsible thing and control your enrollment and stop blowing smoke up our @sses. Your lack of foresight and disregard for our students financial and professional well being all to make a buck make me want to vomit in my mouth a little.

/rant vs gregg
Ok, I can tell your upset, but let me just say a few things. First, Dr. Young has nothing to do with enrollment. If you look he is from the Council of Teaching Hospitals. They don't control enrollment, so blaming him for that is useless. I understand (kind of) your frustration, but in this case, it is not well placed. That goes for basically the entire last paragraph. Second, I don't think that Dr. Young is making things up when he is saying that in order to replace the podiatrists that are retiring, we need to graduate more students than we currently are. Even if some are staying in longer, they will eventually retire.

I agree that things need to happen from both ends, both the schools and the residencies.
 
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Ok, I can tell your upset, but let me just say a few things. First, Dr. Young has nothing to do with enrollment. If you look he is from the Council of Teaching Hospitals. They don't control enrollment, so blaming him for that is useless. I understand (kind of) your frustration, but in this case, it is not well placed. That goes for basically the entire last paragraph. Second, I don't think that Dr. Young is making things up when he is saying that in order to replace the podiatrists that are retiring, we need to graduate more students than we currently are. Even if some are staying in longer, they will eventually retire.

I agree that things need to happen from both ends, both the schools and the residencies.

I agree, Dr. Young cannot control this situation, it's out of his hands. He's actually trying to HELP.
How to solve this crisis? One way is to encourage practicing pods to develop residency programs as Dr. Young is trying to do. Another way may be to SHORTEN the DURATION of existing programs while at the same time REDUCING MINIMUM VOLUMES for surgical procedures. If a program is 36 months with 4 residents/year and little rearfoot it could change to 24 months with 6 residents/year. The CPME wants to LENGTHEN the time for residency programs from 24 months to 36 months. This may, inadvertently, INCREASE the SHORTAGE.
There will be more than 50 without positions because returning people, those in practice like myself, and other past graduates will take a spot.
 
Adding insult to injury, they knew this shortage was coming 5 years ago, and they still allowed schools to increase enrollment!

You are right about that. I was involved in student government in school. We saw it coming 6 years ago and would ask the "higher ups" in our profession at the big meetings what the plan was going to be to stop it from happening. We pretty much got the run around. "Someone else" was always watching it closely. Now, here we are.

I hate to throw that in but it is the truth. Many other young attendings can vouch for it.
 
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