Are there enough RESIDENCY slots this year?

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What a JOKE!!

You should not need to pass part 2 to get a residency.

When I graduated, you did NOT HAVE TO "PASS" part 2...you HAD TO TAKE IT, that is all. Not PASS...just TAKE it! Take it for what, for who? What was the the reason. Students took it, failed it, did a residentcy, THEN passed it...went on into practice...very simple.

Why...money, money & more money....who is getting this money..aacpm?

Now, why are these programs requesting passing of Part 2?

From what I understand..in Pa. you need Part 1, 2 & 3 in Podiatry...BUT...& I repeate BUT....if you are a DO or MD, you do not need all this...they grant you a temp license ..similar to what some programs in NY do.

So we are being taking advantage of. Face the fact. No one needs a 3 year program on the foot....if you want to do a triple ..great...go do it HOTSHOT!

I have a job offer..chip & clip & great money...but I have no residency, so this DPM hired someone to do it for him. Guess you can call him a pod assisiatnt...& he is doing well with cash.

Do not make podiatry similar to MD & Do's...we are not & never will be...I do not care what the CPME is trying to do with these studid 3 year programs.

We need the old one year programs back...PPMR, POR, RPR. Please believe me when I tell you. I know people who have done these programs & have done well. They did not even do a PSR 12. They do not what to do surgery. They have a nice lifestyle, nice homes, great money...more then what some of you will have.

I will tell you a story.. this goes back a while, I do not know what they are doing now. My friend completed a PPMR, 1 year. Went into practice & was doing 6 figures after a while. He was friends with a guy who did a surgical residency ( PSR24 , I think). I also knew this guy, but was not real close with him. These 2 guys kept in touch...the PSR guy even taught at one of the pod schools. Then left to go into practice. He was making far much less then the PPMR guy, and would call the PPMR gyuy for advice...what can he do. This PPMR guy was an average studentm his GPQA lower then mine & he is making a lot of money.

The point...no need for these stupid long programs. Let's get everyone a program, the overlow will continue. Let's get these 1 year programs back. If you do not want them, fine, go for the PMS 24, 36, you can do wht YOU want. But think of your classmates & people like me. I just need a simple PPMR, RPR or POR, and I have job offers.

Please...even if you are a PMS resident, push for this, help the others. Not everyone needs a big program. Let's work together, think of your fellow students & other DPM's like myself.

Thank you.

I never really understood the passage of all three parts before residency in PA. MDs and DOs here in PA do take part II in their 4th year, but they don't take part III until the end of their intern year, after they have been treating patients?!

I know of students in my class who really don't care for doing triples, etc. They love wound care and really want to pursue that. I wonder why pods decided to take this route, say instead of going like neurology v. neurosx. Just because someone has never done a procedure, doesn't mean that they would not know when a surgical pod would be indicated. I'm not training to be an endocrinologist, but after I am done, I will be able to tell you when you should go see one. I'll never be performing a Whipple, but I have a basic understanding of what the pt gets it for and what happens.

I don't think that things will turn the opposite way though. I'm just hoping that this shortage gets turned around with enough spots for the qualified.
 
The reason why it is good to have only 3 year residencies is because we are trying to make all podiatrists competent to perform the same procedures. You don't see general surgeons that cant perform an appendectomy so you shouldn't have pods that can't perform hammertoe surgery. Whether or not you want to perform this procedure is the choice of the doctor, but I am sick of people asking me "what is a podiatrist qualified to do?" and having to explain the some pods are only trained to do this and some are trained to do that...When u get everyone on the same page then public awareness of our profession will begin to take shape. You go to school for 8 years and all some people want to be trained in is basically cutting nails? Then go to a career college for a month and give pedicures for a living. Way cheaper, no malpractice.
 
The reason why it is good to have only 3 year residencies is because we are trying to make all podiatrists competent to perform the same procedures.

I'll repeat, not all residencies have the same surgical volume to allow you to perform the minimal amount of rearfoot cases to become eligible to perform RF surgery. No matter how many 3 year residencies you have, because of this fact, it will never be possible to have all podiatrists competent to perform all the same procedures.

You don't see general surgeons that cant perform an appendectomy so you shouldn't have pods that can't perform hammertoe surgery.
All residents perform HT surgeries, regardless of whether they are at a 2 or 3 year program. Your comment would make more sense if you were comparing RF surgeries across 3 year programs with capable surgical volumes. Again, most of the 2 year residencies are in areas where they do not see the surgical volume to allow their residents to meet the minimum requirements for RF surgery. Adding an extra year of training will not change that fact, and the residents who apply to two year programs are aware of that. Therefore, adding an extra year of residency does nothing but extend their training for no good reason.

Whether or not you want to perform this procedure is the choice of the doctor, but I am sick of people asking me "what is a podiatrist qualified to do?"
We will always have older, non-surgically trained podiatrists who cannot perform certain procedures because the residency training was not available to them.

In addition, we will now have those who have graduated from a 3-year residency (formerly a 2-year program) that will still not be able to perform rearfoot surgery because of what I stated above.

Again, changing the length of residency does not mean everyone will be equal in training.
 
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The reason why it is good to have only 3 year residencies is because we are trying to make all podiatrists competent to perform the same procedures. You don't see general surgeons that cant perform an appendectomy so you shouldn't have pods that can't perform hammertoe surgery. Whether or not you want to perform this procedure is the choice of the doctor, but I am sick of people asking me "what is a podiatrist qualified to do?" andhaving to explain the some pods are only trained to do this and some are trained to do that...When u get everyone on the same page then public awareness of our profession will begin to take shape. You go to school for 8 years and all some people want to be trained in is basically cutting nails? Then go to a career college for a month and give pedicures for a living. Way cheaper, no malpractice.
👍👍

I'll repeat, not all residencies have the same surgical volume to allow you to perform the minimal amount of rearfoot cases to become eligible to perform RF surgery. No matter how many 3 year residencies you have, because of this fact, it will never be possible to have all podiatrists competent to perform all the same procedures.


As I said in the previous page, out of 211 programs only 35 are PM&S24. These programs are in the minority and are in the process of becoming PM&S36.

All residents perform HT surgeries, regardless of whether they are at a 2 or 3 year program.

The post was to compare the current PM&S24 and 36 programs to the previous 1 year programs that footpodguy mentioned.

Again, most of the 2 year residencies are in areas where they do not see the surgical volume to allow their residents to meet the minimum requirements for RF surgery.

Programs can expand, bring on more attendings, etc. as other PM&S24 programs have done and become PM&S36.

Adding an extra year of training will not change that fact, and the residents who apply to two year programs are aware of that. Therefore, adding an extra year of residency does nothing but extend their training for no good reason.

Like I said before...the idea is to make them all 3 year and all PM&S36...eventually. There are only 35 PM&S24 programs left...shouldnt take long before all programs are PM&S36.

We will always have older, non-surgically trained podiatrists who cannot perform certain procedures because the residency training was not available to them.

I didn't know non-surgically trained podiatrists could practice podiatry forever. 🙄

In all seriousness...if by 2015 ALL residencies are PM&S36 then in 50 or so years ALL podiatrists will be PM&S36 trained. You gotta start somewhere.
 
I agree with Brodiatrist on this one. Whether or not you have 500 or 20 programs that can't be RF certified, those are still programs that, as of right now, will still have a distinction on the certificate. The profession hasn't guaranteed that these programs will be able to get these numbers. I think that this has the potential to confuse people more..."So you're all trained for 3 years, but the types of things you learn aren't the same to fulfill a standard competency set?" This will inevitably be the case because of the situation we have AS OF TODAY! I don't agree with the logic; let's just see how it goes and hope it all works out.

I think it's just a new means to the exact same end. If a program has not converted by now, we don't know if it will.

If these programs don't convert for (random number) 10 years, while those podiatrists are still practicing, you'll still have some pods who were trained primarily for FF sx and they may be happy in their niche. They may still refer out their RF cases.

I don't think that suddenly switching to a mandatory 3-year residency will be the end-all for educating colleagues and patients about what podiatrists can do because there will still be pods out there that want nothing to do with sx and will practice primary/wound care. I know that the powers-that-be are telling us that is the magic pill but, like Brodiatrist, I'm not buying into it.
 
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I agree with Brodiatrist on this one. Whether or not you have 500 or 20 programs that can't be RF certified, those are still programs that, as of right now, will still have a distinction on the certificate. The profession hasn't guaranteed that these programs will be able to get these numbers. I think that this has the potential to confuse people more..."So you're all trained for 3 years, but the types of things you learn aren't the same to fulfill a standard competency set?" This will inevitably be the case because of the situation we have AS OF TODAY! I don't agree with the logic; let's just see how it goes and hope it all works out.

I think it's just a new means to the exact same end. If a program has not converted by now, we don't know if it will.

If these programs don't convert for (random number) 10 years, while those podiatrists are still practicing, you'll still have some pods who were trained primarily for FF sx and they may be happy in their niche. They may still refer out their RF cases.

I don't think that suddenly switching to a mandatory 3-year residency will be the end-all for educating colleagues and patients about what podiatrists can do because there will still be pods out there that want nothing to do with sx and will practice primary/wound care. I know that the powers-that-be are telling us that is the magic pill but, like Brodiatrist, I'm not buying into it.

I think the issue becomes ultimately standardization in training. No two programs are the same and as you eluded, certainly not everyone wants to be a full-fledged foot and ankle surgeon. However, switching the training to a 3 year model with a more consistent curriculum across the board forces the new grad to see things with a broader scope and a firmer grasp on the principles of podiatric surgery - i.e. being able to make the proper diagnosis, diagnostic modalities, and even other physician referrals. 3 years of residency training means more exposure to cases, complications, and other departments/specialties. Believe it or not, but there are plenty of physicians that have preconceived negative impressions on our profession/specialty due to the fact that they had very bad experiences with untrained podiatrists. Having a consistent system of training with consistent curriculum at least produces a better trained podiatric physician with more experience to make evidence-based judgement calls and patient care delivery.

You mention people wanting to specialize in woundcare as an alternative to surgery - I think that is great and all the power to them but don't think limb salvage and wound management is any "less complicated" than reconstructive hind foot/ankle surgery. How many of these "wound care docs" really have their patients undergo full work up from vascular, renal, neuro, or metabolic dx or even coordinate with other disciplines/specialists for that matter? I use this example because I've seen many patients "treated" by their local podiatrists for chronic open wounds with virtually no progression or work-up whatsoever - and I often wonder how many of them had proper work-up and how many of those docs took the time to recognize the need for a multidiscipline/specialty approach. If these podiatrists were adequately trained - which is the essence of this discussion, then these patients would not suffer the way they do and other physicians would trust us with more patient care. Again, it all comes down to consistent delivery using good medicine principles and evidence based practice.

The nice thing that we are beginning to see in our profession is a push for consistent curriculum. Although, different programs will always have different niches but at least we know that the average podiatric resident will graduate from their training having completed an X amount of off-service rotations, X amount of cases in forefoot procedures, and variable amounts of Rear foot and ankle. Bottom line, having consistent exposure (some more while others have less) will produce a more standardized system. I'm shocked to see some of the aforementioned comments here in this thread pertaining to returning 1-year of "rotating residencies". This is 2010, medicine and healthcare rely on evidence-based principles and delivery - we should be moving forward with this profession not taking decades back.
 
all above...

The bottom line is that converting all 2-year residencies to 3-year residencies does not address the fact that some podiatrists can perform some procedures, while others cannot.

You can change the name, the length, etc. and naively call that process "standardizing" the profession, however that does not address the problem for the profession or the public. Again, you will still have graduates from these programs that cannot perform surgeries others can.

Edit: Are you even a podiatry student? All of the 2yr residencies will be 3yr as of this year, that's why we're discussing this. If you're not aware of the logistical issues facing the profession, it's pointless for you to comment.
 
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Changing all programs to PM&S36 is a positive, because it means all residents are surgically trained. Most DPMs do forefoot surgeries, even if you are trained to do the ankle stuff, most of the surgeries will still be forefoot.
The old Docs who did not do surgical residencies, do not do any surgery at all. But the future is all Pods will be in OR.

going back to the 1yr non surgical residencies would be a shame
 
The bottom line is that converting all 2-year residencies to 3-year residencies does not address the fact that some podiatrists can perform some procedures, while others cannot.

You can change the name, the length, etc. and naively call that process "standardizing" the profession, however that does not address the problem for the profession or the public. Again, you will still have graduates from these programs that cannot perform surgeries others can.

Yes all 2 year residencies will now be 3 years. Hence why in my previous post I specifically called them PM&S24 and PM&S36.

I have already mentioned numerous times that only 35 out of 211 programs are still PM&S24. These numbers should continue to diminish as these programs convert to PM&S36. If all programs become PM&S36...is this not some form of standardization???

Edit: Are you even a podiatry student? All of the 2yr residencies will be 3yr as of this year, that's why we're discussing this. If you're not aware of the logistical issues facing the profession, it's pointless for you to comment.

You need take your own advice. The issue being discussed is the PM&S residency model vs the PPMR, RPR, POR residency model.

And so what if all 2yr are becoming 3yr. Eventually they will become full PM&S36 residencies once they have enough RRA numbers and get approved.
 
So many of you thing it is so important to do a 3 yr program. Man, are you just students? Are there any practicing pods here?

Get with it, 3 years to study the foot...that is to much!

1. I knew a doctor who taught at a school, he got fired.

2. Then he went TO work FOR a chip & clipper pod in the area ( repeat..he went to work for another pod), this guy wanted someone to do surgery...he got fired again from the chip & clipper pod. (LOL..I remember the guy I am talking about was driving a beater of a car. I had a nice car, the chip & clipper had a nice one to if I remeber, this poor guy even broke down coming to the office. .,..I was rotating there)

3.. His wife was a basic pod from from I know. She divorced him.

4.I had a friend running a practice, someone called the office wanting to know how good this guy was, references, etc. My buddy daid, he never worked there...he was lying.

Now when he taught...he bragged about his residency & what he saw out of his tiny apt.

THis guy.....His residency....a 3 YEAR INTENSIVE PROGRAM WITH AN EMPHASIS ON TRAUMA. Fired twice, divorced, drove a beater, could not hold a job.

Yet, my friends with a 1yr are doing fine.
 
So many of you thing it is so important to do a 3 yr program. Man, are you just students? Are there any practicing pods here?

Get with it, 3 years to study the foot...that is to much!

1. I knew a doctor who taught at a school, he got fired.

2. Then he went TO work FOR a chip & clipper pod in the area ( repeat..he went to work for another pod), this guy wanted someone to do surgery...he got fired again from the chip & clipper pod. (LOL..I remember the guy I am talking about was driving a beater of a car. I had a nice car, the chip & clipper had a nice one to if I remeber, this poor guy even broke down coming to the office. .,..I was rotating there)

3.. His wife was a basic pod from from I know. She divorced him.

4.I had a friend running a practice, someone called the office wanting to know how good this guy was, references, etc. My buddy daid, he never worked there...he was lying.

Now when he taught...he bragged about his residency & what he saw out of his tiny apt.

THis guy.....His residency....a 3 YEAR INTENSIVE PROGRAM WITH AN EMPHASIS ON TRAUMA. Fired twice, divorced, drove a beater, could not hold a job.

Yet, my friends with a 1yr are doing fine.

Great story. I'm touched. If you want to do chip and clip all day then that's fine and this is your choice but don't sway away students, residents, and young surgical minds who actually want to make a real difference with their training. 3-years to study a foot? That probably is the most ignorant comment I have heard from an average patient let alone a practicing podiatrist - shows how in touch you really are with the field, training, and what we're able to provide for our patients. Go over our curriculum first then make a more educated conclusion. 3 years to become foot and ankle surgeons is sometimes not even enough believe it or not. I'm really sorry for your friend. By no means will I ever take his failure as a standard. I know many more successful stories of recently trained pods with successful practices, yes employed, and happily married. Your argument holds no basis whatsoever so please stop spamming this forum with your outdated ideas.
 
So many of you thing it is so important to do a 3 yr program. Man, are you just students? Are there any practicing pods here?

Get with it, 3 years to study the foot...that is to much!

1. I knew a doctor who taught at a school, he got fired.

2. Then he went TO work FOR a chip & clipper pod in the area ( repeat..he went to work for another pod), this guy wanted someone to do surgery...he got fired again from the chip & clipper pod. (LOL..I remember the guy I am talking about was driving a beater of a car. I had a nice car, the chip & clipper had a nice one to if I remeber, this poor guy even broke down coming to the office. .,..I was rotating there)

3.. His wife was a basic pod from from I know. She divorced him.

4.I had a friend running a practice, someone called the office wanting to know how good this guy was, references, etc. My buddy daid, he never worked there...he was lying.

Now when he taught...he bragged about his residency & what he saw out of his tiny apt.

THis guy.....His residency....a 3 YEAR INTENSIVE PROGRAM WITH AN EMPHASIS ON TRAUMA. Fired twice, divorced, drove a beater, could not hold a job.

Yet, my friends with a 1yr are doing fine.

I know that Pod, you forgot to mention

5. He got punched in the face by 3 patients during surgery

6. His parents disowned him and stole his 401K/ life's savings

7. An Alien abducted him twice and left him naked and stranded in michigan
 
Great story. I'm touched. If you want to do chip and clip all day then that's fine and this is your choice but don't sway away students, residents, and young surgical minds who actually want to make a real difference with their training. 3-years to study a foot? That probably is the most ignorant comment I have heard from an average patient let alone a practicing podiatrist - shows how in touch you really are with the field, training, and what we're able to provide for our patients. Go over our curriculum first then make a more educated conclusion. 3 years to become foot and ankle surgeons is sometimes not even enough believe it or not. I'm really sorry for your friend. By no means will I ever take his failure as a standard. I know many more successful stories of recently trained pods with successful practices, yes employed, and happily married. Your argument holds no basis whatsoever so please stop spamming this forum with your outdated ideas.

This was NOT my friend...he was an instructor in the surgical department at a Podiatry school.
After he got fired, he went to work for another pod, again not my friend. I just did a rotation there.

He was a DPM at a school. That's all.

My FRIENDS are doing well. And most have done a PPMR. This pod I am talking about ( I did a search)...he is in a town where I do have a friend. I will have to call & see how he is doing.
 
Why does a GP participate in a 3 year program to do what a PA can in 2-3 years w/o residency? I could prob give a physical and prescribe antibiotics to little kids whose parents haven't heard of Tylenol...

What about OBGYN's? How many pap smears does it really take to be good at em? I would think 4 years of delivering babies and looking at vaginas is a little overkill.

Why do Orthopedic surgeons do 5 year residencies? Do you really need 5 years to understand how to surgically repair 2 joints at most?

footpodguy continues to put podiatry in this tiny little box. Which is sad since this is his/her chosen profession (well after the whole med school thing didn't work out). I still don't understand how anyone on these forums can claim 3 years is TOO MUCH training. I mean we're talking about a bunch of kids who couldn't get into real medical school and you expect us to have a firm grasp on endo, derm, vascular, and ortho complications of the foot and ankle in 1 year? Oh yeah, you have to be able to read x-rays and MRI's so some diagnostic radiology skills are needed too. I'm not saying you have to actually encompass all of these types of medicine in your practice, but you should have a better than "basic" understanding.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised that a handful of people feel this way. Our schools are full of individuals who skated by in undergrad, and then did so again in their podiatry program. Of course they only want to do 1 year of residency.
 
I think the issue becomes ultimately standardization in training. No two programs are the same and as you eluded, certainly not everyone wants to be a full-fledged foot and ankle surgeon. However, switching the training to a 3 year model with a more consistent curriculum across the board forces the new grad to see things with a broader scope and a firmer grasp on the principles of podiatric surgery - i.e. being able to make the proper diagnosis, diagnostic modalities, and even other physician referrals. 3 years of residency training means more exposure to cases, complications, and other departments/specialties. Believe it or not, but there are plenty of physicians that have preconceived negative impressions on our profession/specialty due to the fact that they had very bad experiences with untrained podiatrists. Having a consistent system of training with consistent curriculum at least produces a better trained podiatric physician with more experience to make evidence-based judgement calls and patient care delivery.

I'm not arguing against consistency throughout the system. I agree with you 100% that standardization across the entire educational spectrum is what podiatry needs to focus their attention on. What I don't agree with is slapping 3 year residency trained onto every program. I think it creates much more confusion to the general public. Personally, I think that it's a band-aid for the profession. I think the remaining 2-year programs should have been individually worked with to increase their numbers where deficient, to make them full fledged 3 year programs. After all, that's the differentiation we have now between 2 and 3 year programs; the number of sx cases and types. It's putting the cart before the horse! I personally wouldn't want a 2 year program. I want a 3 or 4. But we've got to get 2 year numbers up somehow so that we are all trained in the same manner. I think this has the potential to turn into - "Well they are already three year programs, all residencies are the same, we can just forget about them now." I certainly hope it doesn't.

You mention people wanting to specialize in woundcare as an alternative to surgery - I think that is great and all the power to them but don't think limb salvage and wound management is any "less complicated" than reconstructive hind foot/ankle surgery. How many of these "wound care docs" really have their patients undergo full work up from vascular, renal, neuro, or metabolic dx or even coordinate with other disciplines/specialists for that matter? I use this example because I've seen many patients "treated" by their local podiatrists for chronic open wounds with virtually no progression or work-up whatsoever - and I often wonder how many of them had proper work-up and how many of those docs took the time to recognize the need for a multidiscipline/specialty approach. If these podiatrists were adequately trained - which is the essence of this discussion, then these patients would not suffer the way they do and other physicians would trust us with more patient care. Again, it all comes down to consistent delivery using good medicine principles and evidence based practice.

I entirely agree with you again. I didn't mean to sound like wound care was any less challenging. With WC advances, I can see that it takes a lot of skill and mastery to be able to tailor a treatment plan for each individual program. Like I said before, I think standardization is what we need to do.

The nice thing that we are beginning to see in our profession is a push for consistent curriculum. Although, different programs will always have different niches but at least we know that the average podiatric resident will graduate from their training having completed an X amount of off-service rotations, X amount of cases in forefoot procedures, and variable amounts of Rear foot and ankle. Bottom line, having consistent exposure (some more while others have less) will produce a more standardized system. I'm shocked to see some of the aforementioned comments here in this thread pertaining to returning 1-year of "rotating residencies". This is 2010, medicine and healthcare rely on evidence-based principles and delivery - we should be moving forward with this profession not taking decades back.

I just happen to believe that the curriculum should actually be manipulated to conform to current standards. I know that programs will lean toward certain disciplines and I think we need that. I definitely do not advocate for 1-year programs. All I am saying is that because there will still be a distinction between FF & RF residencies, what was the point of changing the classification of the program? Having equal number of years implies the same breadth of knowledge base. All peds residents do a 3 year residency, and they all take the same boards in the end. But it won't work that way for pods until this distinction is eradicated. To me, it doesn't matter the number of programs who will still only have, primarily, FF cases. I think Brodiatrist and I are arguing the same point. We didn't say that we should be all going to 1 year residencies, or that standardization isn't progress. However, there will still be explaining to do to pt X.
🙂
 
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This 2yr to 3yr issue is really a non issue IMO. First off, more training is never a bad thing. Second, if these programs aren't able to convert to full PM&S36 programs then they will probably be cut. The CPME has done it before with the PPMR, RPR, etc programs that were all cut in 2000 or 2001 or whenever it was.

Here is what I think the CPME is thinking. They probably figure that the end goal is 1) 100% PM&S36 and 2) all 3 year programs. They are pushing for all the PM&S24 programs to convert to PM&S36. Some programs (35) haven't been able to just yet. So they are trying to fulfill goal #2. Goal #1 will eventually happen. There was a time that there were more PM&S24 programs than PM&S36 programs...right? It just takes a little time. And if it is taking too long then the CPME could just be like, "alright you guys need to become PM&S36 programs by next year or you will be cut."
 
So many of you thing it is so important to do a 3 yr program. Man, are you just students? Are there any practicing pods here?

Get with it, 3 years to study the foot...that is to much!

1. I knew a doctor who taught at a school, he got fired.

2. Then he went TO work FOR a chip & clipper pod in the area ( repeat..he went to work for another pod), this guy wanted someone to do surgery...he got fired again from the chip & clipper pod. (LOL..I remember the guy I am talking about was driving a beater of a car. I had a nice car, the chip & clipper had a nice one to if I remeber, this poor guy even broke down coming to the office. .,..I was rotating there)

3.. His wife was a basic pod from from I know. She divorced him.

4.I had a friend running a practice, someone called the office wanting to know how good this guy was, references, etc. My buddy daid, he never worked there...he was lying.

Now when he taught...he bragged about his residency & what he saw out of his tiny apt.

THis guy.....His residency....a 3 YEAR INTENSIVE PROGRAM WITH AN EMPHASIS ON TRAUMA. Fired twice, divorced, drove a beater, could not hold a job.

Yet, my friends with a 1yr are doing fine.

Did you seriously just try to form a correlation between this Podiatrist's training and his divorce?????
 
Did you seriously just try to form a correlation between this Podiatrist's training and his divorce?????

:laugh: "If you do a 3 year surgical residency, you WILL get divorced!! Because one time, when this guy I kinda know did a 3 year residency, he DID get divorced, and that probably will happen to you. So bring back the 1 year residency option, unless you want to pay alimony forever." 🤣
 
:laugh: "If you do a 3 year surgical residency, you WILL get divorced!! Because one time, when this guy I kinda know did a 3 year residency, he DID get divorced, and that probably will happen to you. So bring back the 1 year residency option, unless you want to pay alimony forever." 🤣

Most of our class got divorced before we even started residency! Did our spouses know something we didn't know? HMMMM.....:meanie:
 
Now that you mention it....I also got divoreced in Pod school.

And there was this good lookin girl, her 1st you she divorced her husband.

What a coincidence.
 
so what are you saying.. people go to pod school married, find someone else, get divorced and live happily ever after with their pod spouse?


thats depressing. im so glad i will be single going to into pod school. or maybe i will be the one to break up a marriage.. hahaha jk jk jk
 
The difference between 2 and 3 year residencies is that you get an extra year to not be responsible = awesome!
 
498 positions available in 2010
517 students in the class of 2010


You have to understand that some students will pursue their studies to the Master's level,maybe even in Ph.D.

Not everyone is gonna do a residency...
Out of the 517 students,a good 30-50 will pursue their studies and will eventually do research.

If you don't match,it's either because you REALLY sucked during your studies,or something went wrong with the application.
An average student has a 97% chance to match in his first choices,ANYWAYS.
Want to see how many people don't match into specialties?Go see Dentistry,above 70% of the graduates can't apply to specialties because of their competitiveness.
 
Want to see how many people don't match into specialties?Go see Dentistry,above 70% of the graduates can't apply to specialties because of their competitiveness.
True, but if you dont match into a dental specialty you can still practice dentistry. If you dont match into a pod residency you are basically screwed.
 
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97% first choice match?? How'd you figure that when something like 20% scrambled this year??

And most people would do their Masters or Phd before clinicals.
 
From the info that I got...there was still 40-50 prople without a program. This is from the most reliable source. You should seek the same info.
This was from the Caspr.
 
This 2yr to 3yr issue is really a non issue IMO. First off, more training is never a bad thing. Second, if these programs aren't able to convert to full PM&S36 programs then they will probably be cut. The CPME has done it before with the PPMR, RPR, etc programs that were all cut in 2000 or 2001 or whenever it was.

Here is what I think the CPME is thinking. They probably figure that the end goal is 1) 100% PM&S36 and 2) all 3 year programs. They are pushing for all the PM&S24 programs to convert to PM&S36. Some programs (35) haven't been able to just yet. So they are trying to fulfill goal #2. Goal #1 will eventually happen. There was a time that there were more PM&S24 programs than PM&S36 programs...right? It just takes a little time. And if it is taking too long then the CPME could just be like, "alright you guys need to become PM&S36 programs by next year or you will be cut."

The final revisions of the CPME 320 document, which governs Podiatric residency programs, are under way. The proposed effective date for the new CPME 320 document is July 2011. Under the new CPME 320 document guidelines, ALL residency programs will be 3 years long, whether they are PM&S-36 or PM&S-24. I am presuming that the few existing 4 year programs will remain 4 years. Under the new guidelines, the 3 years programs that offer adequate forefoot and rearfoot training (which would be most of the current PM&S-36 programs and potentially some of the PM&S-24 programs that can access additional rearfoot cases) will issue a residency certificate for completion of Podiatric Surgery Residency Program with added credential of Reconstructive Rearfoot and Ankle Surgery on their certificate. For the 3 years programs that can not offer adequate rearfoot numbers (most of existing PM&S-24) will issue a residency certificate for completion of the Podiatric Surgery Residency Program WITHOUT the added credential. Hence, residents with the added RRA credential will be able to sit for both the ABPS Foot Surgery and Reconstructive Rearfoot and Ankle Surgery board exams. Those residents without the added credential will only be able to sit for the ABPS Foot Surgery.
 
From the info that I got...there was still 40-50 prople without a program. This is from the most reliable source. You should seek the same info.
This was from the Caspr.

The last thing that I heard was that there were about 30 people still without any residency programs. These 30 people either have not passed Part II boards or waiting for the final results of the May Part II exam.
 
The final revisions of the CPME 320 document, which governs Podiatric residency programs, are under way. The proposed effective date for the new CPME 320 document is July 2011. Under the new CPME 320 document guidelines, ALL residency programs will be 3 years long, whether they are PM&S-36 or PM&S-24. I am presuming that the few existing 4 year programs will remain 4 years. Under the new guidelines, the 3 years programs that offer adequate forefoot and rearfoot training (which would be most of the current PM&S-36 programs and potentially some of the PM&S-24 programs that can access additional rearfoot cases) will issue a residency certificate for completion of Podiatric Surgery Residency Program with added credential of Reconstructive Rearfoot and Ankle Surgery on their certificate. For the 3 years programs that can not offer adequate rearfoot numbers (most of existing PM&S-24) will issue a residency certificate for completion of the Podiatric Surgery Residency Program WITHOUT the added credential. Hence, residents with the added RRA credential will be able to sit for both the ABPS Foot Surgery and Reconstructive Rearfoot and Ankle Surgery board exams. Those residents without the added credential will only be able to sit for the ABPS Foot Surgery.

Thanks for clarifying. 👍

IIRC, over the past couple of years the number of PM&S-24 spots have diminished while the number of PM&S-36 spots have increased...through added RRA cases and conversion into PM&S-36 programs. This trend should continue. In the near future (I hope) ALL programs will be PM&S-36 (with RRA credentials).

Am I correct in assuming there is a push to convert the current PM&S-24 programs into "full" PM&S-36 programs (with added RRA credentials)?
 
Thanks for clarifying. 👍

IIRC, over the past couple of years the number of PM&S-24 spots have diminished while the number of PM&S-36 spots have increased...through added RRA cases and conversion into PM&S-36 programs. This trend should continue. In the near future (I hope) ALL programs will be PM&S-36 (with RRA credentials).

Am I correct in assuming there is a push to convert the current PM&S-24 programs into "full" PM&S-36 programs (with added RRA credentials)?

With the current revision of the CPME 320 documents (which they do revise every few years), they are not pushing to convert the current PM&S-24 programs into full PM&S-36 programs with added RRA credentials. With this revision, they are mandating all remaining PM&S-24 programs to be 3 years length. The reason for not requiring current PM&S-24 programs be converted to PM&S-36 model is that there is a current shortage of residency positions and if the PM&S-24 program can not secure adequate rearfoot numbers for its residents, they fear that the program will end up closing. However, they are encouraging PM&S-24 programs that can secure adequate rearfoot numbers to convert to PM&S-36 if possible. Perhaps, if the residency position shortage is resolved by the next revision of CPME 320 document, they might push for conversion of all residency programs to PM&S-36.

Another interesting fact about the current revision of the CPME 320 document is that they will be dropping the current PM&S-36 program minimal activity volume (the number of cases) for 4 out of 5 surgery categories to PM&S-24 MAV. The 5th category, which is reconstructive rearfoot and ankle surgery category, was excluded since PM&S-24 does not require any MAV. According to the recent conference held for residency directors, the general Podiatry community felt that if the current PM&S-24 MAV numbers are adequate to achieve "competency" in forefoot surgery, then it is not necessary for all future 3 year programs to uphold the current PM&S-36 MAV numbers for graduation. This will be effective July 1, 2011, if this revision gets its final approval. I am not sure if I agree wth the dropping the MAVs. However, the drop in MAVs may allow for the exisiting PM&S-36 programs to open up more positions.
 
With the current revision of the CPME 320 documents (which they do revise every few years), they are not pushing to convert the current PM&S-24 programs into full PM&S-36 programs with added RRA credentials. With this revision, they are mandating all remaining PM&S-24 programs to be 3 years length. The reason for not requiring current PM&S-24 programs be converted to PM&S-36 model is that there is a current shortage of residency positions and if the PM&S-24 program can not secure adequate rearfoot numbers for its residents, they fear that the program will end up closing. However, they are encouraging PM&S-24 programs that can secure adequate rearfoot numbers to convert to PM&S-36 if possible. Perhaps, if the residency position shortage is resolved by the next revision of CPME 320 document, they might push for conversion of all residency programs to PM&S-36.

Another interesting fact about the current revision of the CPME 320 document is that they will be dropping the current PM&S-36 program minimal activity volume (the number of cases) for 4 out of 5 surgery categories to PM&S-24 MAV. The 5th category, which is reconstructive rearfoot and ankle surgery category, was excluded since PM&S-24 does not require any MAV. According to the recent conference held for residency directors, the general Podiatry community felt that if the current PM&S-24 MAV numbers are adequate to achieve "competency" in forefoot surgery, then it is not necessary for all future 3 year programs to uphold the current PM&S-36 MAV numbers for graduation. This will be effective July 1, 2011, if this revision gets its final approval. I am not sure if I agree wth the dropping the MAVs. However, the drop in MAVs may allow for the exisiting PM&S-36 programs to open up more positions.

How is converting current pm&s 24 programs to 36 months going to achieve more positions? Isn't the result longer duration for the same training that's currently achieved in 24 months? The new revisions do not require RF cases for 24 month programs that convert to 36 month programs.

I understood that this isn't about competency, but more about medicare reimbursement for the 3rd year of residency at full DGME rather than 1/2 DGME.
 
How is converting current pm&s 24 programs to 36 months going to achieve more positions? Isn't the result longer duration for the same training that's currently achieved in 24 months? The new revisions do not require RF cases for 24 month programs that convert to 36 month programs.

I understood that this isn't about competency, but more about medicare reimbursement for the 3rd year of residency at full DGME rather than 1/2 DGME.

I think that you have misunderstood my posting. I never said that converting currrent PM&S-24 programs to 3 years length would achieve more positions. If you re-read my post, I said that the reason why they are NOT requiring all of the current PM&S-24 programs be converted to PM&S-36 program model on the current revision of CPME 320 is that they fear that such requirement would cause the PM&S-24 programs that could not secure adequate rearfoot numbers to close. This is not the same thing as PM&S-24 program converting to 3 years in length. Not all 3 years PM&S-24 programs are of the PM&S-36 model. Closure of any residency programs at this time will not help the current residency position shortage. Again, I did not say or imply that the conversion of the PM&S-24 to PM&S-36 model would result in increase in residency position. In fact, I implied that requirement of all current PM&S-24 programs be converted to PM&S-36 model may result in DECREASE in positions.

I had also mentioned that the drop of the PM&S-36 MAV numbers to the PM&S-24 MAV numbers for 4 out of 5 categories MAY result in the increase of positions. The competency issue is relevant to the MAV numbers only.

The current CPME 320 revision is mandating that all residency programs (including current PM&S-24 programs) will be at least 3 years in length for training. Again, I did not imply or say that this would generate more residency position, if you re-read my post. I was stating what the upcoming CPME 320 revision says. You are right in that the purpose of the mandating all residency programs be 3 year in length is to petition Medicare to change the current funding. I did not bring this issue up since this is not the right forum to be discussed in (it should be diiscussed in the Podiaty resident and physican forum). However, since you did bring this up, I will mention it quickly. Due to our previous residency program models, Medicare is under the assumption that Podiatry only requires 2 years of residency training. Hence, for the third year and further of Podiatry residency training, the training institution would get 1/2 of DGME (which is used to pay for the residents salaries and other expenses). When all of the residency programs are three years in length, the Podiatry profession can petition Medicare that Podiatry does require 3 years in training and hopefully, it would result in Medicare in getting full DGME funding for the third year of residency training. Currently, the residency program will get full IME funding for all three years. Due to the fact that Medicare will fully fund the DGME for first two years of residency training, this is why some programs will not take anyone who has done residency training elsewhere for their PGY-1 position. If this candidate did 1 year of residency training elsewhere and enters another program as a PGY-1, that residency program will get full DGME funding for his/her PGY-1 year and only get 1/2 DGME funding for the PGY-2 and 3 years since that resident would have completed 2 years of residency training by the end of their PGY-1 year at this other program.
 
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I think that you have misunderstood my posting. I never said that converting currrent PM&S-24 programs to 3 years length would achieve more positions. If you re-read my post, I said that the reason why they are NOT requiring all of the current PM&S-24 programs be converted to PM&S-36 program model on the current revision of CPME 320 is that they fear that such requirement would cause the PM&S-24 programs that could not secure adequate rearfoot numbers to close. This is not the same thing as PM&S-24 program converting to 3 years in length. Not all 3 years PM&S-24 programs are of the PM&S-36 model. Closure of any residency programs at this time will not help the current residency position shortage. Again, I did not say or imply that the conversion of the PM&S-24 to PM&S-36 model would result in increase in residency position. In fact, I implied that requirement of all current PM&S-24 programs be converted to PM&S-36 model may result in DECREASE in positions.

I had also mentioned that the drop of the PM&S-36 MAV numbers to the PM&S-24 MAV numbers for 4 out of 5 categories MAY result in the increase of positions. The competency issue is relevant to the MAV numbers only.

The current CPME 320 revision is mandating that all residency programs (including current PM&S-24 programs) will be at least 3 years in length for training. Again, I did not imply or say that this would generate more residency position, if you re-read my post. I was stating what the upcoming CPME 320 revision says. You are right in that the purpose of the mandating all residency programs be 3 year in length is to petition Medicare to change the current funding. I did not bring this issue up since this is not the right forum to be discussed in (it should be diiscussed in the Podiaty resident and physican forum). However, since you did bring this up, I will mention it quickly. Due to our previous residency program models, Medicare is under the assumption that Podiatry only requires 2 years of residency training. Hence, for the third year and further of Podiatry residency training, the training institution would get 1/2 of DGME (which is used to pay for the residents salaries and other expenses). When all of the residency programs are three years in length, the Podiatry profession can petition Medicare that Podiatry does require 3 years in training and hopefully, it would result in Medicare in getting full DGME funding for the third year of residency training. Currently, the residency program will get full IME funding for all three years. Due to the fact that Medicare will fully fund the DGME for first two years of residency training, this is why some programs will not take anyone who has done residency training elsewhere for their PGY-1 position. If this candidate did 1 year of residency training elsewhere and enters another program as a PGY-1, that residency program will get full DGME funding for his/her PGY-1 year and only get 1/2 DGME funding for the PGY-2 and 3 years since that resident would have completed 2 years of residency training by the end of their PGY-1 year at this other program.

Thanks for clarifying! Out of curiosity, let's say this revision passes and there is DGME funding for 36 months. If the 24 month programs are converted to 36 months and the resident wants to go on to do RF training, would that resident only receive 1/2 DGME for whatever program they go into for additional training, since it will extend beyond 36 months? I'm trying to understand the reasoning behind this and what the goal is. Another words, will it be the same problems but under a longer timeframe? I ask because under the new model no RF is necessary for the PM&S 36. Do you think it will be harder to get new programs established if the new regulations pass?

Thanks for the info.
 
Thanks for clarifying! Out of curiosity, let's say this revision passes and there is DGME funding for 36 months. If the 24 month programs are converted to 36 months and the resident wants to go on to do RF training, would that resident only receive 1/2 DGME for whatever program they go into for additional training, since it will extend beyond 36 months? I'm trying to understand the reasoning behind this and what the goal is. Another words, will it be the same problems but under a longer timeframe? I ask because under the new model no RF is necessary for the PM&S 36. Do you think it will be harder to get new programs established if the new regulations pass?

Thanks for the info.

I think that you are still misunderstanding the conversion of all residency programs to 3 years in length, as proposed by the new CPME 320 revision. The new CPME 320 revision does mandate reconstructive rearfoot and ankle surgery numbers for all programs that is going to offer RRA credential to their graduating residents, which technically be all existing PM&S-36 programs and some of the existing PM&S-24 programs that can obtain adequate rearfoot numbers for their residents. Hence, reconstructive rearfoot and ankle surgery numbers are mandated for the PM&S-36 programs. Under the new guidelines, the exisiting PM&S-24 programs that can not obtain adequate rearfoot numbers for their residents, will simply converted into a program that will be 3 years in length and will not be offering the RRA credentials to their residents. Hence, the majority of the 3 years residency programs should be offering RRA credential.

Let's say that the Medicare does providing funding for 3 years of podiatry residency training. In terms of a resident who had completed a 3 years program that did not offer RRA credential and decides to transfer into another program that offer RRA credentialling, usually as a PGY-3, the accepting residency program will only get 1/2 DGME since that resident have already did 3 years of residency training.
 
I think that you are still misunderstanding the conversion of all residency programs to 3 years in length, as proposed by the new CPME 320 revision. The new CPME 320 revision does mandate reconstructive rearfoot and ankle surgery numbers for all programs that is going to offer RRA credential to their graduating residents, which technically be all existing PM&S-36 programs and some of the existing PM&S-24 programs that can obtain adequate rearfoot numbers for their residents. Hence, reconstructive rearfoot and ankle surgery numbers are mandated for the PM&S-36 programs. Under the new guidelines, the exisiting PM&S-24 programs that can not obtain adequate rearfoot numbers for their residents, will simply converted into a program that will be 3 years in length and will not be offering the RRA credentials to their residents. Hence, the majority of the 3 years residency programs should be offering RRA credential.

Let's say that the Medicare does providing funding for 3 years of podiatry residency training. In terms of a resident who had completed a 3 years program that did not offer RRA credential and decides to transfer into another program that offer RRA credentialling, usually as a PGY-3, the accepting residency program will only get 1/2 DGME since that resident have already did 3 years of residency training.

Sounds good! Thanks for clarifying. Hopefully more residency programs will develop this year.
When I was licensed many years ago I never would have predicted the mess I'd be in today; unable to get onto insurances for conservative care work. If residents complete a 36 month program without RRA and the insurance companies consider RRA the "new" standard then the current residents could find themselves scrambling to obtain this training years into practice to get onto insurances.
 
So, after the PM&S - 36 w/ and w/out RRA goes into affect and these residents start graduating, will my PM&S-36 look like the PM&S-36 w/out RRA on paper?

The CPME still has it wrong and continues to cause confusion with all the different residency models.

There are 6month and 1 year F&A fellowships, no one says "well, I did a 6 month fellowship and can only do forefoot surgery now" They just put on their CV - 6 month F&A fellowship. Then practice.

If our profession was more trusting of each other and could better teach students and residents to only treat what you are capable of a refer the rest, just like any MD looking to avoid being sued we'd all be better off and could have one residency model. The public and medical community would be less confused.
 
It seems like our profession is too caught up with trying to be like a real medical school.

👎
 
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So, after the PM&S - 36 w/ and w/out RRA goes into affect and these residents start graduating, will my PM&S-36 look like the PM&S-36 w/out RRA on paper?

Why would it? You were trained under the current PM&S - 36 model which ABPS will know to mean you received RRA. Just like the ABPS knows that those who trained in the PSR-24 received RRA.

The CPME still has it wrong and continues to cause confusion with all the different residency models.

It seems like the end goal is to have all PM&S-36 w/RRA but the problem is we are in a residency shortage. More bad would come out of cutting all the non-RRA programs than just letting them be for a couple of years.


It seems like if the plan goes through and Podiatry Residencys are able to receive FULL DGME funding for 3rd yr. then this would make it easier to open more Residency programs.
 
It seems like our profession is too caught up with trying to be like a real medical school.

👎

When you start practicing you'll want to be paid like a real doctor. Especially when you're doing the same procedures but getting reimbursed less than those who went to real medical school.

Most students don't care because they're not exposed to billing. They think I'm going to join a group, sign a 100k+ contract, and live happily ever after. Well, someone has to bill for that salary, and you have to perform procedures for that salary. So, if medicare changes their models to pay MD's $5 a toenail and DPM's $2 a toenail, so will private insurers.

Our reimbursements are based on insurance company models, and most private companies follow federal plans (medicare, medicaid). When medicare says we're only paying "X" to those who hold "X" title, and "C" for those who hold "C" title, you wonder what the differences are between X and C. Well, for where our scopes overlap, it's not much difference.
However, getting insurers to realize that is harder than you'd think, which is why standardizing is important.
 
Iam all for standardization and parity with MDs but not before we fix these residency shortage issues.

We should first fix the fundamental defects of this sinking ship rather than worrying about parity and equality. My friends in allopathic medical school are mocking our residency shortage. This whole episode of mismanagement has become a joke.

As a student iam more worried about our residency situation than parity with MDs or how much will i be paid. Be it 12 month or 24 month or 36 months. Without residency we will not even get 50 cents for toenail clipping and have to end up flipping burgers or cleaning washrooms.

My personal opinion will be to open residency programs asap whether 24, 36 or even 12 months to fix our sorry situation. In this pursuit of 36 months parity we have already lost 12 month residencies. Those programs could have been used as last options by students who didnt matched. They could have made some decent income by doing basic pallitative care rather than roaming on streets now without any future or prospects.
 
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No one is disputing that there are valid concerns that need to be addressed at every level (students to working podiatrists); we're in a rapidly evolving profession and providing you do graduate, you'll be spending a lot more time practicing than you will be in residency.

Likewise, everyone wants their concerns addressed first. IMO students are less motivated to be proactive because 1. They believe everything they're told by the schools (ie what residency shortage??) and 2. They're preoccupied with studies (and rightfully so). However, they also have the attitude that "this is not my problem, someone else will fix it". Well if this shortage isn't a wake up call than I don't know what is. This is our money and our education and if you don't take the time to make your voices heard through your APMA reps, then I'm not sure what to tell you other than the loudest problem gets addressed first.
 
Why would it? You were trained under the current PM&S - 36 model which ABPS will know to mean you received RRA. Just like the ABPS knows that those who trained in the PSR-24 received RRA.



It seems like the end goal is to have all PM&S-36 w/RRA but the problem is we are in a residency shortage. More bad would come out of cutting all the non-RRA programs than just letting them be for a couple of years.


It seems like if the plan goes through and Podiatry Residencys are able to receive FULL DGME funding for 3rd yr. then this would make it easier to open more Residency programs.



I don't care what ABPS thinks of my training. I am not recruiting the ABPS as my patients or to refer patients to me.

The concern is the general publics perception or misperception as well as hospital boards and refering docs (internists, vascular surgeons, orthopedists...)

At the current time a podiatrist could apply for hospital privileges with training POR, PRR, PSR - 12, PSR - 24, PM&S-24, PM&S -36 ... and then to add on top board qualified or board certified in either ABPOPPM, ABPS foot surgery or ABPS foot and RRA. FOR ONE PROFESSION! do you think the hospital board wants to deal with all this nonsense?

We opperate and treat one body part. If you were not trained to do something or don't quite know what you are doing/treating just refer it to some one who does or at a minimum for a second oppinion. Admitting you don't know but telling your patient where to go to get help will gain your trust.