How do you Remove/Invalidate a reference letter?

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Aluminum

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I'm in trouble. I've applied to many schools and spend a thousand dollars only to discover that one of my referees actually wrote a bad reference letter (saying I had disciplinary action (noise complaints, etc) and not getting along well with a few people) and didn't tell me until now. I already submitted his letter months ago because he gave me a positive impression, so I find this mean because he didn't let me know that he was not going to write me a positive letter, but rather a negative one that is sure to ruin my chances. 🙁

Can anyone please help me find out how to remove his letter? He acted so nice when I asked him for it, but now he stabbed me in the back. Can I say that he is biased against me? Etc? I need to get it out of there. 🙁😱
 
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Aluminum said:
I'm in trouble. I've applied to many schools and spend a thousand dollars only to discover that one of my referees actually wrote a bad reference letter (saying I had disciplinary action (just noise complaints, etc) and whatnot) and didn't tell me until now. I already submitted his letter months ago because he gave me a positive impression, so I find this mean because he didn't let me know that he was not going to write me a positive letter, but rather a negative one that is sure to ruin my chances. 🙁

Can anyone please help me find out how to remove his letter? He acted so nice when I asked him for it, but now he stabbed me in the back. Can I say that he is biased against me? Etc? I need to get it out of there. 🙁😱
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The silent enemy strikes again
 
Can't do anything as far as med schools are concerned.

But you know, that is a serious betrayal of trust. I would consider hiring a hitman to ensure that justice is served, namsayin?
 
Will the schools always have his bad reference letter in the future? Did he just blacklist me at 20+ schools? 🙁
 
Aluminum said:
I'm in trouble. I've applied to many schools and spend a thousand dollars only to discover that one of my referees actually wrote a bad reference letter (saying I had disciplinary action (just noise complaints, etc) and whatnot) and didn't tell me until now. I already submitted his letter months ago because he gave me a positive impression, so I find this mean because he didn't let me know that he was not going to write me a positive letter, but rather a negative one that is sure to ruin my chances. 🙁

Can anyone please help me find out how to remove his letter? He acted so nice when I asked him for it, but now he stabbed me in the back. Can I say that he is biased against me? Etc? I need to get it out of there. 🙁😱
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He's obviously biased against you. Telling med schools that won't help.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using SDN Mobile
 
Ouch.

How did you even find out it was a bad letter after the fact? Did he just e-mail you out of the blue and say, "bro, remember that one time when I was totally NOT confident about writing you a good letter?"
 
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i'm so sorry. this is every applicant's nightmare.
 
HughMyron said:
Can't do anything as far as med schools are concerned.

But you know, that is a serious betrayal of trust. I would consider hiring a hitman to ensure that justice is served, namsayin?
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This guys doing it right.

Sorry to hear about your bad letter, a nice person would've just said no when you asked unless you twisted his arm somehow.
 
That is indeed a horrible horrible unethical and malicious action on the letter writer's part.

Who is he exactly? If he is a prof in a course that you did well in - I don't think how he can sneak all those behavioral complaints in.
 
Aluminum said:
I'm in trouble. I've applied to many schools and spend a thousand dollars only to discover that one of my referees actually wrote a bad reference letter (saying I had disciplinary action (just noise complaints, etc) and whatnot) and didn't tell me until now. I already submitted his letter months ago because he gave me a positive impression, so I find this mean because he didn't let me know that he was not going to write me a positive letter, but rather a negative one that is sure to ruin my chances. 🙁

Can anyone please help me find out how to remove his letter? He acted so nice when I asked him for it, but now he stabbed me in the back. Can I say that he is biased against me? Etc? I need to get it out of there. 🙁😱
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How many II have you gotten thus far?
 
if i were you i would gut this pig from head to toe. People like this just make me sick- he/she obviously just agreed to write you a letter because they want to see you fail.
 
Hemorrage said:
if i were you i would gut this pig from head to toe. People like this just make me sick- he/she obviously just agreed to write you a letter because they want to see you fail.
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Exactly. I seem to agree with you on quite a few points 😛

I'm sorry to hear you were betrayed like this. The first thing that comes to mind is the word rat. For your sake and pretty much the sake of applicants who have been blindsided with bad LORs, I hope the ADCOMS takes it with a grain of salt. It's evident that this was a malicious to sabotage your chances at medschool.

Goodluck. When you do make it in, spit in his face and let him know the POS that he is. :idea:👍
 
This is really wrong. I've had many professors tell our class that they'll let us know BEFOREHAND if they (for whatever reason) cannot write us a really strong recommendation letter but I thought it was common knowledge that you DONT purposefully write someone a bad rec letter. Is there someone at your institution that you can go to? Technically your professor didn't do anything illegal, but there's got to be someone who can at least talk to them...
 
Aluminum said:
I'm in trouble. I've applied to many schools and spend a thousand dollars only to discover that one of my referees actually wrote a bad reference letter (saying I had disciplinary action (just noise complaints, etc) and whatnot) and didn't tell me until now. I already submitted his letter months ago because he gave me a positive impression, so I find this mean because he didn't let me know that he was not going to write me a positive letter, but rather a negative one that is sure to ruin my chances. 🙁

Can anyone please help me find out how to remove his letter? He acted so nice when I asked him for it, but now he stabbed me in the back. Can I say that he is biased against me? Etc? I need to get it out of there. 🙁😱
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No way to get rid of it and you're probably toast with a poor LOR. No one is likely to "take it with a grain of salt." They take great letters with a grain of salt but not poor ones. Everyone has "great" letters. Sorry, OP. As for whether this will blacklist you in future cycles, it's hard to say and will likely depend upon the program. At many programs, Admissions can (and does), in fact, pull old apps for comparison. At those institutions, a poor LOR might continue to do harm after the cycle is over. It certainly was not cool that he didn't let you know this until now but this is why it's so crucial to know your LOR writers and ask whether they can write you a "strong" LOR.
 
MelissaThompson said:
That is indeed a horrible horrible unethical and malicious action on the letter writer's part.

Who is he exactly? If he is a prof in a course that you did well in - I don't think how he can sneak all those behavioral complaints in.
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Meh, I don't know that I would go so far as to say all of this. It sounds like he was being very honest and letting schools know what he had observed. There isn't really anything unethical or malicious about that. The OP had a complaint against him of which the writer was aware. The writer reported that information. This benefits the public, is not directly malicious (i.e., not making up information, etc.), and is in accordance with the AMCAS agreement signed by the student concerning the LOR.
 
music2doc said:
No way to get rid of it and you're probably toast with a poor LOR. No one is likely to "take it with a grain of salt." They take great letters with a grain of salt but not poor ones. Everyone has "great" letters. Sorry, OP. As for whether this will blacklist you in future cycles, it's hard to say and will likely depend upon the program. At many programs, Admissions can (and does), in fact, pull old apps for comparison. At those institutions, a poor LOR might continue to do harm after the cycle is over. It certainly was not cool that he didn't let you know this until now but this is why it's so crucial to know your LOR writers and ask whether they can write you a "strong" LOR.
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Wow, I had no idea that a LOR citing noise violations could be such a catastrophe for ones chances of a medschool acceptance :eyebrow: I thought LOR were used as a testimonial for the applicants strength of character, integrity and so on.

I'm interested in knowing how this turns out. Granted that the OP is a strong candidate in all other fields of his applications, it would blow to hear that he was rejected based on one s**t letter of reference.
 
MelissaThompson said:
That is indeed a horrible horrible unethical and malicious action on the letter writer's part.

Who is he exactly? If he is a prof in a course that you did well in - I don't think how he can sneak all those behavioral complaints in.
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He is the new Dean of Students. He knows me for 4 years (before becoming Dean) and we always say hi to each other. I thought he was almost like my acquaintance, turns out he simply doesn't care about me, wasted a thousand of my dollars, weeks for secondaries for which I sacrificed school grades, and may have blacklisted me at over 20 schools. 🙁
 
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Aluminum said:
He is the new Dean of Students. He knows me for 4 years (before becoming Dean) and we always say hi to each other. I thought he was almost like my acquaintance, turns out he simply doesn't care about me, wasted a thousand of my dollars, weeks for secondaries for which I sacrificed school grades, and may have blacklisted me at over 20 schools. 🙁
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Can you explain how you found out the content of the letter?
 
Start looking at schools you didn't apply to this cycle. Consider reporting this guy to your premed committee or similar organization.

Also a chance the letter wasn't as negative as you think, and you're overreacting that he wrote an honest letter. As dean of students he's obligated to provide the information he has, which would include your noise violations or whatever. Unless you read the letter and it says nothing nice about you whatsoever...
 
Domenic said:
Wow, I had no idea that a LOR citing noise violations could be such a catastrophe for ones chances of a medschool acceptance :eyebrow: I thought LOR were used as a testimonial for the applicants strength of character, integrity and so on.

I'm interested in knowing how this turns out. Granted that the OP is a strong candidate in all other fields of his applications, it would blow to hear that he was rejected based on one s**t letter of reference.
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It depends whether the op was up front w schools in the first place. If all it was was a noise complaint and op mentioned it in the primary and it was just a one time thing, I doubt it will hurt that much but op added etc to the end of the statement, which says there may be more.

And you're right, they are assessing personal attributes via the lor. Repeated IAs or IAs not mentioned in the primary bring up questions concerning your judgment, integrity, professionalism, and what having you as a student would do for/to the school's reputation.
 
music2doc said:
It depends whether the op was up front w schools in the first place. If all it was was a noise complaint and op mentioned it in the primary and it was just a one time thing, I doubt it will hurt that much but op added etc to the end of the statement, which says there may be more.

And you're right, they are assessing personal attributes via the lor. Repeated IAs or IAs not mentioned in the primary bring up questions concerning your judgment, integrity, professionalism, and what having you as a student would do for/to the school's reputation.
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I disagree with the notion OP should have written about noise violations in his/her personal statement.
 
How did such jackass become the dean of students?

At my school, the dean of students are just the most caring, kind, and supportive profs ever!
 
Bearstronaut said:
I disagree with the notion OP should have written about noise violations in his/her personal statement.
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Have you applied yet? This would not go in the PS (that would be idiotic). The OP implied it was an IA. All IAs (as well as any legal convictions/guilty pleas at the misdemeanor level or higher, which a noise complaint can fall under in many jurisdictions) are to be reported in the AMCAS primary. If OP had reported in the primary then this LOR mentioning it would be no big deal. (Actually, it could be a positive if the LOR served to explain the situation and jived well with the OP's own statement.) However, if the OP failed to report the IA in the proper field of his primary, it's basically game over. This would be akin to them finding out about a minor IA after offering an acceptance -- it is [almost] universally grounds for rescinding the acceptance. Schools don't like having to do that, so an LOR like this would tip them off early and would result in round filing of the OP's application.
 
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music2doc said:
Have you applied yet? This would not go in the PS (that would be idiotic). The OP stated it was an IA. All IAs (as well as any legal convictions/guilty pleas at the misdemeanor level or higher, which a noise complaint can fall under in many jurisdictions) are to be reported in the AMCAS primary. If OP had reported in the primary then this LOR mentioning it would be no big deal. (Actually, it could be a positive if the LOR served to explain the situation and jived well with the OP's own statement.) However, if the OP failed to report the IA in the proper field of his primary, it's basically game over. This would be akin to them finding out about a minor IA after offering an acceptance -- it is [almost] universally grounds for rescinding the acceptance. Schools don't like having to do that, so an LOR like this would tip them off early and would result in round filing of the OP's application.
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Other than the condescension of your first statement, I don't find anything you wrote disagreeable or at odds with what I wrote. I misinterpreted your talk of the primary and the OP's statement to be the personal statement.
 
MelissaThompson said:
How did such jackass become the dean of students?

At my school, the dean of students are just the most caring, kind, and supportive profs ever!
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An LOR from the Dean of Students typically includes any IAs, etc. If the OP requested it after this person had taken that position, it may have been assumed (or required) to be a "Dean's Letter." In that case, it makes perfect sense that the OP's IA record was reported. It's unfortunate that he was not informed of this possibility beforehand, but as things come out it is beginning to make some sense why the OP's IA was reported. It's not the same as a professor giving a subjective poor recommendation. Instead, the OP basically requested a Dean's Letter and that letter reported an IA on the OP's record.

If it was truly treated as a professor's recommendation, however, I find it pretty inappropriate for the faculty member to have written a poor letter without first asking the student to request one from someone else. Only in the case of the student pressing the faculty member for an LOR does it make any sense for the professor to be so "honest."
 
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If I was the professor, I would not even THINK of bringing up any negative aspects at all. If I would, I would simply refuse to write a letter. Is it that hard for people to say "no" to a student if they can't write a good letter? The worst that will happen is the student cries for an hour in your office...
 
This may not spell catastrophe

I would not think about it too much. A noise violation is not that big of a deal
 
music2doc said:
Have you applied yet? This would not go in the PS (that would be idiotic). The OP implied it was an IA. All IAs (as well as any legal convictions/guilty pleas at the misdemeanor level or higher, which a noise complaint can fall under in many jurisdictions) are to be reported in the AMCAS primary. If OP had reported in the primary then this LOR mentioning it would be no big deal. (Actually, it could be a positive if the LOR served to explain the situation and jived well with the OP's own statement.) However, if the OP failed to report the IA in the proper field of his primary, it's basically game over. This would be akin to them finding out about a minor IA after offering an acceptance -- it is [almost] universally grounds for rescinding the acceptance. Schools don't like having to do that, so an LOR like this would tip them off early and would result in round filing of the OP's application.
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THIS.

now OP, was your noise violation classified as an IA? does the violation counts as a disciplinary violation? If it is, then you must report it on the AMCAS. Did you?

If you did, you have NOTHING to worry about. IF you didn't then that can be a huge problem because it constitutes as lying on the AMCAS.
 
KnuxNole said:
If I was the professor, I would not even THINK of bringing up any negative aspects at all. If I would, I would simply refuse to write a letter. Is it that hard for people to say "no" to a student if they can't write a good letter? The worst that will happen is the student cries for an hour in your office...
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I heard JFK got into Harvard with a letter saying he could be counted on to do the minimum amount of work to pass.
 
pre med 2014 said:
This may not spell catastrophe

I would not think about it too much. A noise violation is not that big of a deal
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a noise violation is NOTHING if the OP reported the IA on the AMCAS. if he didn't report it, then it could be a huge deal.
 
aspiring20 said:
a noise violation is NOTHING if the OP reported the IA on the AMCAS. if he didn't report it, then it could be a huge deal.
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Even then. It probably didn't result in institutional action. A warning or a citation isn't institutional action.
 
pre med 2014 said:
Even then. It probably didn't result in institutional action. A warning or a citation isn't institutional action.
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that depends. i received a warning and it counts as a disciplinary action, hence institutional action. some schools give out warnings before giving out an IA. at my school, a warning is an IA.
 
I just want to say: Even if he blacklisted me at all schools, I will never give up.
 
Aluminum said:
I just want to say: Even if he blacklisted me at all schools, I will never give up.
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[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9fdcIwHKd_s[/YOUTUBE]

Never Give Up! Never Surrender! ...Activate. The. Omega 13.



Also, if it is, in fact, an IA and you "forgot" to mention it in your primary, you might try emailing each school a very sincere apology for your oversight and explain the situation and that you did not realize it might be considered an IA and hope they will overlook your mistake. This may be a situation you want to enlist LizzyM's assistance with as she may be able to help you craft that email.... (Of course, you do risk applying to her school with the letter and losing anonymity, but honestly it's probably worth it.)
 
Originally Posted by KnuxNole<br />
If I was the professor, I would not even THINK of bringing up any negative aspects at all. If I would, I would simply refuse to write a letter. Is it that hard for people to say "no" to a student if they can't write a good letter? The worst that will happen is the student cries for an hour in your office...
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<br />
<br />
I heard JFK got into Harvard with a letter saying he could be counted on to do the minimum amount of work to pass.
Click to expand...

This is an excellent point. OP, are you charismatic, ugly-handsome, and from a large well connected New England family?
 
music2doc said:
It depends whether the op was up front w schools in the first place. If all it was was a noise complaint and op mentioned it in the primary and it was just a one time thing, I doubt it will hurt that much but op added etc to the end of the statement, which says there may be more.

And you're right, they are assessing personal attributes via the lor. Repeated IAs or IAs not mentioned in the primary bring up questions concerning your judgment, integrity, professionalism, and what having you as a student would do for/to the school's reputation.
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Music2doc, you are reading my mind.

OP: A dean of students letter will almost always report IAs. If you didn't report those IAs in your primary then you.are.screwed.

Better luck next year.
 
Lizzy, is there a way I can ask him/AMCAS to remove his letter?

Will I still be admissible next year? Will they keep the letter next year or blacklist me now?
 
Aluminum said:
Lizzy, is there a way I can ask him/AMCAS to remove his letter?

Will I still be admissible next year? Will they keep the letter next year or blacklist me now?
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I'm going to guess you did not disclose the incident(s) in your AMCAS primary, and that is why you are in a mad dash to remove the letter.

I believe schools are able to download all designated letters from AMCAS immediately after the schools have received your secondaries. Chances are that all designated schools have already received the letter.
 
Aluminum said:
Lizzy, is there a way I can ask him/AMCAS to remove his letter?
Click to expand...

No.
Will I still be admissible next year? Will they keep the letter next year or blacklist me now?
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I don't know if they will "forgive and remember". In large part, it may depend on whether you are truthful on your application next year. The "sin" is not the noise violation, it is the failure to be truthful about the noise violation.
 
lets be serious here. its just a noise complaint. I realize that Lizzy is on an adcom, but I would say that most adcoms just don't care about a noise complaint. If anything it shows that this guy knows how to have fun. Will they even notice it? Will they even get that far into the letter? Maybe not.

I always thought of IA as something related to education (cheating) or criminal activity (like sexual assault or stealing I guess). I bet many adcoms will not even think that a noise complaint is something that should have been reported on the AMCAS. Basically, you know an ethical violation when you see one. And an unreported noise complaint is not one.

OP: dont give up for this cycle. And, if necessary, apply to mostly different schools next year.
 
I also was immature, had problems getting along with a few people so they complained about me (being too friendly, cause I barely ever had friends, but mainly bullies). I dont know what I do but I make some people uncomfortable. I am popular, at least I think so, but a few people tell me that some talk behind my back. I tried so hard many times to fix it. Am I unhuman? I don't think I have ever had real friends. But I believe I will one day be social. This happened multiple times. I struggled for a while. And I was stupid enough to ask him for a letter as I thought he would be kind enough to warn me if he wouldn't want to support me (which he didn't). I acted like a total *******. I believe it is partially my fault.

But I still won't give up applying to medical school. Even if I am 90 or have a terminal illness. I am doing this.
 
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Aluminum said:
I also was immature, had problems with a few people. This happened multiple times. I struggled for a while. And I was stupid enough to ask him for a letter (and he didn't even warn me). I'm an absolute idiot. Don't help me...
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well obviously we dont know the whole story. if you've made it this far, you're not an idiot. hang in there. I waited a year to apply and I think it was one of the best decisions I ever made. If you have to redo everything without this letter, I bet it will be a good thing for you in the long run.

happy holidays.
 
Thanks you too!

I know I will make it one day and be able to help people through medicine which is my passion. I believe it is nearly impossible to stop me. But his action annoys me a bit (and is expensive...). 🙂
 
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Mako555 said:
lets be serious here. its just a noise complaint. I realize that Lizzy is on an adcom, but I would say that most adcoms just don't care about a noise complaint. If anything it shows that this guy knows how to have fun. Will they even notice it? Will they even get that far into the letter? Maybe not.

I always thought of IA as something related to education (cheating) or criminal activity (like sexual assault or stealing I guess). I bet many adcoms will not even think that a noise complaint is something that should have been reported on the AMCAS. Basically, you know an ethical violation when you see one. And an unreported noise complaint is not one.

OP: dont give up for this cycle. And, if necessary, apply to mostly different schools next year.
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Sorry but it's by the person's institution's definition. Yes, adcoms will care.

Aluminum said:
I also was immature, had problems getting along with a few people so they complained about me (being too friendly, cause I barely ever had friends, but mainly bullies). I dont know what I do but I make some people uncomfortable. I am popular, at least I think so, but a few people tell me that some talk behind my back. I tried so hard many times to fix it. Am I unhuman? I don't think I have ever had real friends. But I believe I will one day be social. This happened multiple times. I struggled for a while. And I was stupid enough to ask him for a letter (and he didn't even warn me). I acted like a total *******.

But I still won't give up applying to medical school. Even if I am 90 or have a terminal illness. I am doing this.
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If you are having as severe of problems relating to others as you detail here, you should really see a therapist and work those issues out prior to medical school. They're not going too magically disappear because you are a medical student. Honestly, our load will probably increase the severity and these issues may become a heavy liability for you if not handled appropriately.
 
Aluminum said:
I'm in trouble. I've applied to many schools and spend a thousand dollars only to discover that one of my referees actually wrote a bad reference letter (saying I had disciplinary action (noise complaints, etc) and not getting along well with a few people) and didn't tell me until now. I already submitted his letter months ago because he gave me a positive impression, so I find this mean because he didn't let me know that he was not going to write me a positive letter, but rather a negative one that is sure to ruin my chances. 🙁

Can anyone please help me find out how to remove his letter? He acted so nice when I asked him for it, but now he stabbed me in the back. Can I say that he is biased against me? Etc? I need to get it out of there. 🙁😱
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I only asked for letters from people who gave me an A or above in their classes and absolutely like/love me. It is not entirely your fault, but maybe you can utilize better people reading next time.
 
I wonder how this cycle is working out for OP - did you get any II??
 
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