Foreign student - lots of questions

Hi everybody,

I am a foreign student, and I understand Med Schools in US only accept a very, very, very small number of students who are not US citizens/permanent residents.

Does anybody have any idea what are my chances, really? I have a BS in chemistry from a university in US (GPA 4.0) and am currently finishing up a PhD in immunology. I'll be taking MCAT in august (I know this is late, but my schedule is just hectic, I couldn't possibly take it in april).

Anybody in the same boat?

Thanks for ANY help - it's much appreciated! I am completely lost and without pre-MED advisors and such.....

Foreigner said:

Hi everybody,

I am a foreign student, and I understand Med Schools in US only accept a very, very, very small number of students who are not US citizens/permanent residents.

Does anybody have any idea what are my chances, really? I have a BS in chemistry from a university in US (GPA 4.0) and am currently finishing up a PhD in immunology. I'll be taking MCAT in august (I know this is late, but my schedule is just hectic, I couldn't possibly take it in april).

Anybody in the same boat?

Thanks for ANY help - it's much appreciated! I am completely lost and without pre-MED advisors and such.....

Click to expand...

apply for a greencard. other than that..i think u may be set.

You have excellent numbers, so even as an international student you stand a good chance.

There are US medical schools that accept students from other countries. Your best bet is going to be the private schools. You will have to do a search of the private schools, as a few of them do not accept international students.

State schools are set up to educate residents of each state. Although some of the larger states with more than one med school do accept international students, your chances are very small.

All of them, private or state, will take your application fee and not tell you they don't accept international students, so do your own research.

If you can get sponsorship for a green card, you will save yourself alot of hassle.

I know it is not as easy as knocking on USCIS's door and saying, "I'd like to apply for a green card please."

Check out the USCIS website and see if you have a green card qualifier.

As far as financing, well as you well know, one of the USCIS stipulation on international students is that they be able to prove that they can provide financial support.

You may find yourself in the fortunate position of being offered a scholarship by some US school. Slim chance but possible. Loans are available for international students to study in the US. They will require a credit-worthy U.S. co-signer.

With a Phd you are in a unique position to take advantage of options not available to an international undergrad. Explore them. That may be an avenue to get greencard sponsorship and financing.

Agape

Thank you both.

It's difficult to see where you stand - even with good numbers, there are a lot of other considerations.

Green card is more difficult to obtain than it seems, but I agree - it would make me sleep much better 🙂

Any thoughts on the late MCATs? Does it really hurt so much?

I was in your situation Foreigner ( minus the PhD) a few months ago : International student and I took my MCAT last August... Of course it hurts to be late and to be a foreigner but I got accepted to a few schools.
Getting a green card would be the ideal, otherwise with that kind of backgroung you might get a scholarship, or you can always get a private loan ( with a US co-signer). oh yes, try the private schools they tend to accept more international students and are also most likely to give them some scholarships.
Good luck and trust me there is hope.

I completed my BS in Physiology from a university outside North America (w/ summa cum laude) and will be starting my PhD in Pharmacology at a university in US this year. I once considered applying to MD/PhD but I realized that I would stand no chance as an international student who just completed a degree from an institution outside US/Canada. I decided to do PhD first as I'm interested in research, my PhD will be funded by the university and more importantly, I don't think I have enough experience to justify "why medicine AND research?".

I'm not sure what will happen to me after 4~5 years, but if I am still interested in MD and if I am eligible, I will apply for it and hence will be on the similar boat as Foreigner.

Having said that, does anyone have any idea whether a foreign student who completed a Bachelor's degree outside US/Canada but completed an advanced degree in US, would be eligible to apply for medical schools (and admitted)? I heard a few cases but I would like to ask if anyone is aware of this case.

Thanks a lot!!

Foreigner, I PMed you.

For some reason you are reminding me of the band

"With this belt, the wearer will obtain all superpowers of 70's supergroup . foreigner"

Foreigner said:

Hi everybody,

I am a foreign student, and I understand Med Schools in US only accept a very, very, very small number of students who are not US citizens/permanent residents.

Does anybody have any idea what are my chances, really? I have a BS in chemistry from a university in US (GPA 4.0) and am currently finishing up a PhD in immunology. I'll be taking MCAT in august (I know this is late, but my schedule is just hectic, I couldn't possibly take it in april).

Anybody in the same boat?

Thanks for ANY help - it's much appreciated! I am completely lost and without pre-MED advisors and such.....

Click to expand...

You'll do fine on the MCAT. I would think if your ecs and LORs are as good as your stats, you don't have anything to worry about, other than being an Aug MCATer. I doubt the better schools will mind your status, and the bigger state schools (UCs) won't either if you are a strong applicant. Definitely do your own research on the schools (web and call advisors at individual schools) to make sure. Good luck and PM me if you have any specific questions.

crackerj said:

I completed my BS in Physiology from a university outside North America (w/ summa cum laude) and will be starting my PhD in Pharmacology at a university in US this year. I once considered applying to MD/PhD but I realized that I would stand no chance as an international student who just completed a degree from an institution outside US/Canada. I decided to do PhD first as I'm interested in research, my PhD will be funded by the university and more importantly, I don't think I have enough experience to justify "why medicine AND research?".

I'm not sure what will happen to me after 4~5 years, but if I am still interested in MD and if I am eligible, I will apply for it and hence will be on the similar boat as Foreigner.

Having said that, does anyone have any idea whether a foreign student who completed a Bachelor's degree outside US/Canada but completed an advanced degree in US, would be eligible to apply for medical schools (and admitted)? I heard a few cases but I would like to ask if anyone is aware of this case.

Thanks a lot!!

Click to expand...

Crakerj, almost every single international student that gets accepted completed their undergraduate degree in the U.S or Canada….this point is very important so if your undergraduate classes are taken anywhere other than these two countries, the admissions committee will have an issue with it as I found out. However, that's not to say it's impossible to get accepted if you have a foreign B.Sc. because it happens - just to a much lesser extend for reasons that I'll try to convey. If you are a foreigner with a U.S. degree, your chances of being accepted are better and, actually, quite good if you cast your net wide. I personally know several people with numbers similar to U.S. applicants who were accepted to multiple schools.

What I learned from this process myself: 1) Not having a green card makes it very hard to enter a U.S. medical school and I did not have this at the time of application (I was asked for my freshly-printed green card before the interview could take place at one school). 2) Having a foreign undergraduate degree makes it even harder to gain admission; almost every U.S. school will automatically deem you 'ineligible'. 3) Having a foreign undergraduate degree and not having a green card is the worst possible combination. Some schools may allow you to apply if you take all of your pre-reqs over again in the U.S. (several told me to do this), and a few will allow you to apply if you have a higher degree, conferred by a U.S. institution. However, take heart - there are always exceptions to the rule and, if you're persistent, you can probably get in somewhere.

When you apply, the AMCAS form will not allow you to use foreign (non-U.S./Canadian undergraduate grades unless you are an American student who did a semester overseas - in which case they transfer. This means that you essentially have to apply without an undergraduate GPA. This fact alone may relegate your application to the circular filing cabinet as, I promise you, schools will look for ANY excuse to trim the massive applicant pool. I took the time to have my foreign undergraduate transcript from the U.K. evaluated by a professional agency called World Education Services (www.wes.org). They can assign an equivalent U.S. GPA and determine how many credits you have in organic chemistry etc. Be warned: this is only an estimate and, since your country of origin may have a totally different system (only being examined once a year on the entire year's work like the U.K. or 'first class honors' etc) this may mean little to the U.S. and the GPA estimate may not be what you feel reflects your accomplishments. I sent those converted transcripts directly to schools at the time of application.

The only allopathic school I recall that may accept a foreign undergraduate degree alone is Albany Medical College. One or two schools told me that they wanted between 60-90 credits from the U.S. to supplement my foreign undergraduate degree (I had 91 from my Ph.D. in the U.S.) but they all emphasized that they would also like the prerequisite courses (1 years each of chemistry, biology, physics, English) completed in the U.S. before application--so they can fairly compare you with other applicants. I took a chance and only took physics I and physics II (after the MCAT) which I had never taken as an undergraduate. If your Ph.D. was also completed overseas, this will hurt your case. One or two schools stipulate that two years of credits from an advanced degree (masters, Ph.D. etc) will suffice. It's better to check with schools that you want to attend before taking the classes. Sometimes that means bypassing the 'front line' person (respectfully) and going straight to an admission's coordinator. I found that some schools said no, when one of their admissions coordinators later told me yes. Not good. The best schools keep all their staff informed about these special rules.

Stay away from state schools if you have an international undergraduate (again, non-U.S./Canadian) degree. They have so many applicants and they are mandated to pump out so many docs every year that will probably commit to the local area. This, I feel, was my single biggest mistake. Private schools can take anyone they please. Also, a good applicant with mediocre numbers is more likely to get into a higher-ranked private school than a state school. That said, out of nine or so applications, I was granted three interviews - two of which I attended - and I was accepted at both......a state school and a private school. I ultimately chose the state school because I felt their program was a better fit for me and the local area was better for my wife.

I was an August MCATer, I applied late, and I had not taken any physics prerequisites at the time of application - not the best way to apply and, on top of that, I feel I was a very average applicant on paper, but I firmly believe that 'what's for you will not go past you'. If I can do it, know assuredly that you can too. Be persistent. Good luck!

Disclaimer: First off, you should really talk to the schools you are interested in applying to since they will have the "real" answers. I hope my experiences will help you feel better (I know applying as a foreigner is a daunting task!) - I am by no means an expert when it comes to US med schools 🙂

I am a Canadian without a green card and educated at a Canadian school for undergrad. You are probably in a similar boat as me as we are both consider foreigners. You might actually have an easier time because some schools only accept foreigner who have been educated at an American school. You also have an IMPRESSIVE gpa...AND you will be getting a PhD. I also don't imagine you'll do too poorly on the MCAT either. Therefore, I really think you have nothing to worry about if you apply to a number of schools, including a couple of "safety" schools (although nothing in the admissions process can ever be considered a guarentee).

Many Canadians apply to schools in the US because it is "easier" to get in simply because there are so many schools. Many Canadians get into good schools with much lower credentials than yours, trust me!! Since there are only a limited number of foreign spots at some schools, you should of course apply to more schools to increase your chances.

Continuing with my story: I only applied to two schools in the states - Washington University at St. Louis and Wayne State University in Detroit. Both are actually very accomodating towards foreign students as a relatively large percentage of their class are foreigners. I secretly think they like foreigners as they are not obligated to find financial aid for us...when you go to the interview, they will always tell you that you are responsible for the whole cost and must be able to prove you have the resources for 4 years (at WashU, this means getting some kind of letter from your bank or opening an escrow account in the US).

I interviewed at both schools. If you are wondering why I didn't apply to more schools, the answer is TIME. If you look at AMCAS, you'll notice that the deadline for both schools is in December 🙄 I didn't have my secondaries completed until early January (WashU) and early February (Wayne State). I got waitlisted at WashU; I am waiting for the next round of offers from Wayne State as I just interviewed there recently - I was told there are still some spots open at this time. When I applied, I had actually never heard of WashU before...had I known it was such a highly-ranked school, I probably won't have applied since I am not looking for US schools to be my "reach" schools.

Although my story is not one of resounding success, I think it's fairly decent given my lack of effort. Learn from my mistakes...with a little more EFFORT and PLANNING on your part, I really think you'll have no problem being accepted next year. I think with your excellent academic background, writing the August MCAT will not adversely affect your application (unless you completely bomb the evil thing, of course 😛 ...unlikely in your case). You are definitely in a good position: 4.0 gpa, PhD, and educated at an American school.

Personal recommendation: Apply to Washington University at St. Louis. They accept loads of foreigners (I think even people without Canadian or American undergrad degrees) and are EXTREMELY research-oriented. They will ABSOLUTELY LOVE your PhD!!!! Plus, their application is not time-consuming at all: just the AMCAS application (which you have to complete anyways for other schools) and an easy secondary (LOR, more stats, I can't remember exactly, but it was a lot easier than Wayne State which required 2 more essays). As a side note, I am in awe of people who have applied to 10+ schools that require seperate and extensive secondaries.

With the stats you've mentioned, I think you will get many interview offers. Assuming you are a fairly decent person in real life and interview relatively well, you'll probably get tons of waitlists, if not outright acceptances.

Good luck!! You can PM me if you want. I hope this makes you feel less anxious about your situation. Looking at stats can be scary 😉

Scottish Chap and Caliente are right on the money.

With your numbers you have a good chance.

Thanks to Caliente you know of at least one school where you stand a good or almost equal chance. Since you obviously have had to prove financing before to get a visa to do your undergrad, you know how the system works.

Not having a green card may be a hinderance at some schools, but quite frankly with your numbers and that Phd, I'd bet good money (and I'm a cheap tightwad) you'll get a number of interviews and even more than one acceptance if you throw out a wide enough net.

Agape

It's nice to be encouraged - Thanks everyone!

All I've heard before is along the lines of next to impossible, so I relly needed some feedback before spending the time and the money applying and such...

Did everyone take a course to study for the MCATs or did you study on your own? I am planning on the latter - any thoughts?
🙂

Hey Foreigner,

Someone just provided some info on another thread that may help with your research into the "international-friendly" schools. I'll post the list, but you can get to it via this link:

http://www.temple.edu/healthadvising/fornstd.html

Temple University
Information for Non-U.S. Citizens
Interested in a Career as a Physician

Undergraduates who are interested in careers as physicians but who are not United States citizens have a few more considerations than those who are. Permanent residents are generally accepted and treated like U.S. citizens, especially if they qualify for state residency at institutions where this matters. Those not having a green card have a much more difficult problem, since only a limited number of schools can consider them, and several of these demand assurances with respect to capacity to pay for medical school. These range up to a requirement that the entire cost (tuition plus living expenses) for four years of medical school be placed in escrow. Some schools will accept students if their loans are cosigned by a U.S. citizen. As a general rule, no financial aid is available for non-U.S. citizens except possibly for a few merit scholarships. Some schools will meet the Immigration and Naturalization Services' (INS) requirements for granting F-1 status outright and will not ask for escrow accounts to be established.

Allopathic medical schools which, as of 1996, accepted non-U.S. citizens include (* means the school requires prepayment of tuition or escrow account):

California:
University of California, Los Angeles
University of California, San Francisco
Loma Linda University
University of Southern California
Stanford University *

Connecticut:
University of Connecticut
Yale University

District of Columbia:
George Washington University
Georgetown University
Howard University

Georgia:
Emory University
Medical College of Georgia
Morehouse

Hawaii:
University of Hawaii

Illinois:
University of Chicago/Pritzker
Finch UHS/Chicago Medical School
Northwestern University

Indiana:
Indiana University

Kentucky:
University of Kentucky *

Maryland:
John's Hopkins University *

Massachusetts:
Boston University
Harvard *

Michigan:
Michigan State University *

Minnesota:
University of Minnesota-Minneapolis

Missouri:
Saint Louis University *
Washington University*

New Hampshire:
Dartmouth

New York:
Albany *
Albert Einstein
Columbia University *
Cornell University *
Mount Siani
New York Medical *
New York University
University of Rochester *
SUNY- Stony Brook
SUNY- Syracuse *

North Carolina:
Bowman Gray
Duke University *

Ohio:
Case Western Reserve University
Ohio State University

Pennsylvania:
Jefferson *
MCP/Hahnemann University
Pennsylvania State University
University of Pennsylvania *

Puerto Rico:
Universidad Central del Caribe

Rhode Island:
Brown University

Tennessee:
Maharry *
Vanderbilt University

Texas:
Baylor
Texas Tech University *
University of Texas Medical School at San Antonio

Utah:
University of Utah

Vermont:
University of Vermont

Virginia:
University of Virginia *

Wisconsin:
Medical College of Wisconsin

Osteopathic Medical Schools which, as of 1996, accepted non U.S. citizens include (* means that the school requires prepayment of tuition or escrow account):

California:
COMP *

Florida:
Nova Southeastern COM

Illinois:
CCOM *

Iowa:
UOHMS *

Maine:
NECOM *

Missouri:
UHSCOM *
KCOM

New York:
NYCOM

Pennsylvania:
PCOM *

This information changes and you would be wise to inquire to the medical schools you are interested in to find out what their requirements are for foreign students.

Please send questions or comments to the Health Professions Director

- - - - - -
I'd still check this list out. It's on the Temple website, but things change....