Low Board Pass Rate at UNECOM

wow.. .where did you get this info from.

... okay.. EDIT HERE...

Now I know where you got that from. On their website they say it is in the 90%. Oh well that is odd. Maybe someone from UNE can comment on this. Shaddy or Jon... anyone.

Maybe UNECOMers are too busy studying for USMLEs.

I'm going to be VERY careful to not get a soap box, but yes, the board pass rate was just over 82%, and it has indeed been going down over the past 3 years... it's interesting that they implemented the systems based 2nd year curriculum just about 3 years ago... coincidence? I'm thinking probably not... however, like anything new they are working out the kinks, they've made a lot of changes since last year, and I'm sure they'll make a lot more changes (at least I certainly would hope they'd make some changes)... ok, that's enough SDN, time to get back to Nervous System.

MTodd said:

I was looking through the posts concerning board pass rates and learned UNECOM is way low! What's going on there? That was my first choice for D.O. school but not if the education is terrible. My advisor indicated the school was "poor." Is this why? I'd really appreciate any insight from current students.

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I'd hate to make the correlation, but as you can see, UNECOM has the lowest mean GPA--by far:

http://www.vpul.upenn.edu/careerservices/gradprof/healthprof/premed/osteopathicstats.html

and one of the higher mcats... whats your point? And those stats are what... 3 years old! More recent stats list the average GPA as 3.4 (princeton review and the school website).

Anyways, yeah it is true, that class did not do so hot as a hole. A bunch of people I talked to blamed it on the lack of study time before the boards...

UNE will still fill their class next year... I guarentee it

True!!!

MTodd said:

hmmm...I'm not sure I feel any better about the program at UNECOM. I appreciate the comments though.

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I still feel confident about UNECOM. Plus think about how it would be easier to improve on that when you (as an applicant) are there.

Does any one know the USMLE pass rate? To me that is more important. If I want to come back to Canada, COMLEX don't count for much. Nor does an AOA residency.

MTodd said:

Thanks Doc Oc...that was exactly what I was looking for. I wish you well in your career.

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To clarify this post...

I just posted a long post regarding what information I have on board pass rates at UNECOM, as a recent grad. Immediately after posting it, I reread it, then decided to delete it and instead try to obtain some actual numbers on our board pass rates. I thought that would be more useful than a long thread, half of which I can't substantiate very well without actual data.

So I deleted it. And it appears that in the two minutes that it was up, MTodd read it Sorry for the confusion, and hopefully I can find out something you can hang your hat on.

MTodd said:

No time to study? That's a joke of an excuse. More concerned with the USMLE? Are we talking about M.D.'s or D.O.'s? If you can't pass the COMPLEX why would you succeed on the USMLE. Someone from UNECOM please comment on this.

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I explained why for me it is more important to do USMLE. Just incase you missed it. To practice in Canada, a DO must pass the USMLEs and do ACGME residency.

Doc Oc, thanks for the detailed information. Hopefuly the school can answer some of these concerns. I am glad that this is being brought up. That way the school will promote better performance in the future.

If one cannot pass, or do well on, the COMLEX, I would say there's no hope as far as USMLE is concerned for that individual. DO pass rates on the USMLE are 72%. From what I hear, COMLEX is a joke compared to the USMLE.

MTodd said:

Maybe UNECOM is one of the few honest schools that do not hold students back from taking the test or otherwise artificially manipulate the numbers?

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that is a good point as I was SURPRISED to hear that this was a common practice in many schools. I know OSU-COM allows all to take and only had one not pass COMLEX. I would hate to be in that bottom 10-20% and not being able to take comlex with the class.

I know many people this year who didn't really take the 'time' to study as well. Then I know a few people who got up early 2 days a week starting in the beginning of the year for COMLEX/USMLE. I think that maybe it could be a reflection on the students and their study habits if they state there wasn't time to study? Or as someone mentioned the change in cirrculum? I would think cirriculum would be more of an issue.

I would be weary of a declining trend for any school.

OSU-COM requires every student who just finished MS2 to take Step 1 in June. I'm not sure how they'll work it once the computerized version is actually implemented, but the school definitely does not manipulate the board pass/scores data.

I certainly can't speak for what goes on at other schools, but if a student doesn't meet the qualifications to successfully finish MS2, then I think it is legit for a school to not allow them to take Step 1 until they have actually completed MS2. If they're holding back students who have truly completed MS2, but who may not be academically stellar, then that is a different deal.

Here are the actual numbers for UNECOM:

COMLEX I
Year / UNECOM Pass Rate / Nat'l Pass Rate
2000 / 93.6 / 93.9
2001 / 84.7 / 93.7
2002 / 89.8 / 90.1
2003 / 96.3 / 92.3
2004 / 85.6 / 88.8
2005 / 82.3 / 90.9

COMLEX II
Year / UNECOM Pass Rate / Nat'l Pass Rate
2000 / 95.3 / 92.3
2001 / 90.1 / 90.2
2002 / 93.7 / 91.5
2003 / 96.1 / 91.6
2004 / 90.8 / 88.6

As others have pointed out there have been changes in the curriculum (mostly 2nd year classes) to move it towards a more “objectives” based approach. I don’t feel that I know enough to comment fully on the scope of or the motivation behind the change.

I can say that the changes were phased in with the class taking the 2004 COMLEX and the class taking the 2005 COMLEX was the first to go through the full “objectives” based 2nd year curriculum.

(nicedream) said:

If one cannot pass, or do well on, the COMLEX, I would say there's no hope as far as USMLE is concerned for that individual. DO pass rates on the USMLE are 72%. From what I hear, COMLEX is a joke compared to the USMLE.

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And ya hear wrong. My USMLE and COMLEX performance were very similar.

I found the COMLEX to be a physically and emotionally exhausting mind screw. Taking the USMLE 10 days later was much more tolerable.
I am not saying it was easy. Some questions were so outside of my knowledge base that I couldn't begin to answer with a clue. However, I did recognize proper syntax, interogative construction and a total lack of what Idiopathic termed the "WTF factor".

Leaving the USMLE I had a pretty fair idea of my admittedly mediocre score. Exiting the COMLEX, I very much feared I had failed.

Hayduke said:

And ya hear wrong. My USMLE and COMLEX performance were very similar.

I found the COMLEX to be a physically and emotionally exhausting mind screw. Taking the USMLE 10 days later was much more tolerable.
I am not saying it was easy. Some questions were so outside of my knowledge base that I couldn't begin to answer with a clue. However, I did recognize proper syntax, interogative construction and a total lack of what Idiopathic termed the "WTF factor".

Leaving the USMLE I had a pretty fair idea of my admittedly mediocre score. Exiting the COMLEX, I very much feared I had failed.

I suggest you take these things before making your sweeping commentary.

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You are right, I haven't taken them, and I could be wrong.
However, when I referred to COMLEX being a joke compared to USMLE, I was talking about the fact that it apparently is a poorly constructed test, not that it feels easy. Also, there has been talk of score inflation in the COMLEX - that while many feel they may have failed it walking out (because it's a bad test), when people get their scores, they are consistently surprised to learn they passed.
These points aside, if you don't pass the COMLEX you don't get your degree - high USMLE score or not.
As far as those posted UNECOM pass rates - from those statistics I would say the avg pass rate is around 86 and 2003 was an outlier (don't know that past 2 years are really an indication of a downward trend so much as a return to normal).

Interesting that the same class that had the best pass rate for Step 1 had one of the lower pass rates for Step 2 of the classes represented. (I am assuming that the "Year" column refers to year of administration). So this particular class would be my class, the recent graduating class.

So much for being "outliers"...

For fun...

Average Step 1 last 6 years - 88.7

Average Step 1 throwing out the best and worst - 88.4

Average National Step 1 last 6 years: 91.6

Shodddy18 said:

and one of the higher mcats... whats your point? And those stats are what... 3 years old! More recent stats list the average GPA as 3.4 (princeton review and the school website).

Anyways, yeah it is true, that class did not do so hot as a hole. A bunch of people I talked to blamed it on the lack of study time before the boards...

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How much study time does UNECOM get?
Also, what curriculum did they previously have? Usually going systems based just means grouping your lectures in a different way, not going case based or EBM or something, correct?

For those that have done better on the COMLEX I than the USMLE I here is a question that I am finding is getting many mixed responses when it comes time to actually using those scores....

When viewed by residency directors (allopathic) during application for residency do you think that it is better to

a) do well on the COMLEX and submit it alone
b) do well on the COMLEX and submit it with a passing but low USMLE score
c) cry all night long because you're confused

Does just passing the USMLE in iteself mean much?

Could a low score on the USMLE (but countered with a normal COMLEX score) end up hurting you in the end?

Well, if the scores are due to curriculum change, then the scores should then start to trend upwards after they get the program down pat. I don't think you should be overly worried but I would advise you to be self-motivated and self-directed in your learning if you do decide to go there. I do think the scores are a definate "con" to your decision list, but see if the benefits outweighs those. Goodluck!

From what I hear, COMLEX is a joke compared to the USMLE.

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Your an IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(nicedream) said:

If one cannot pass, or do well on, the COMLEX, I would say there's no hope as far as USMLE is concerned for that individual. DO pass rates on the USMLE are 72%. From what I hear, COMLEX is a joke compared to the USMLE.

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OSU-COM's pass rate on the USMLE was 100% last year.

For the record more than 50% of the class took the USMLE.

"Your an IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Hmm, I'm not defending him, but you should use correct English when you're calling someone an idiot. It sort of makes you look like an....

Edit: "You're an idiot."

This is going back a year or two while I was doing research on what schools I would apply to, but the DOs tend to do better (a slightly larger pass rate) on the USMLE than our counterparts, and on the step 2, about the same (I might have them reversed). I recall that I found that information on the AMA website, or perhaps the AOA website - in the documentation section. There is a chart that breaks it all down for you. Do a search and I'm sure you will be able to find it if you are really interested in this.

BACMEDIC said:

This is going back a year or two while I was doing research on what schools I would apply to, but the DOs tend to do better (a slightly larger pass rate) on the USMLE than our counterparts, and on the step 2, about the same (I might have them reversed). I recall that I found that information on the AMA website, or perhaps the AOA website - in the documentation section. There is a chart that breaks it all down for you. Do a search and I'm sure you will be able to find it if you are really interested in this.

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I don't want to sound confrontational, but this has never been true. In fact, most years (including 2004-2005) the allopathic pass rate was >20% higher than the osteopathic pass rate. The numbers usually aren't even close.
Once again, I have nothing at all against the osteopathic education, since it's basically the same as the allopathic education, if not HARDER due to the additional courses. But to say that the osteopathic usmle pass rates are higher is far from true.

Sorry, but I didn't mean to include 2005 in that last post. Those numbers aren't in.

BACMEDIC said:

This is going back a year or two while I was doing research on what schools I would apply to, but the DOs tend to do better (a slightly larger pass rate) on the USMLE than our counterparts, and on the step 2, about the same (I might have them reversed). I recall that I found that information on the AMA website, or perhaps the AOA website - in the documentation section. There is a chart that breaks it all down for you. Do a search and I'm sure you will be able to find it if you are really interested in this.

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I found some newer numbers: for 2000 and 2001

http://www.usmle.org/Scores/2001perf.htm

Step 1 osteo had a 75% pass rate while LCME had 90
Step 2 osteo had a 90% pass rate while LCME had a 93

s42brown said:

Your an IDIOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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"Your" a dum dum.
If what I said is not true, why are DO pass rates on COMLEX around 90% and on USMLE around 75%?
Also, when I said it was a joke (and you would know this if you bothered to read the whole thread), I was referring to the fact that the test supposedly sucks - as in poorly constructed and written. I haven't heard anyone defend the COMLEX as a well-put-together test.

OSUdoc08 said:

OSU-COM's pass rate on the USMLE was 100% last year.

For the record more than 50% of the class took the USMLE.

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What does that have to do with anything? DO pass rates on the USMLE are consistently 20 pts lower than MDs overall. Did I say anything about OSU-COM?

(nicedream) said:

What does that have to do with anything? DO pass rates on the USMLE are consistently 20 pts lower than MDs overall. Did I say anything about OSU-COM?

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Not true

On Step 2(where DO and MD start to merge in terms in training) osteo had a 90% pass rate while LCME had a 93

BACMEDIC said:

Not true

On Step 2(where DO and MD start to merge in terms in training) osteo had a 90% pass rate while LCME had a 93

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I was talking about Step I, which is usually what people are referring to when discussing board scores. As you say, training merges after years 1 and 2.

You guys go get a room and argue about it.

It is bad enough you keep reviving this thread and everyone sees over and over again UNECOM low pass rate!!! Better yet.. start a thread title "your an idiot... or your a dum dum"

docbill said:

You guys go get a room and argue about it.

It is bad enough you keep reviving this thread and everyone sees over and over again UNECOM low pass rate!!! Better yet.. start a thread title "your an idiot... or your a dum dum"

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nice call...

Damnit.... I just resurected it to... funny how that works.

I hope the Mods close this down though...

Also, when I said it was a joke (and you would know this if you bothered to read the whole thread), I was referring to the fact that the test supposedly sucks - as in poorly constructed and written. I haven't heard anyone defend the COMLEX as a well-put-together test

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If this is what you meant then I apologize. The test is challenging but for all the wrong reasons. You're not an IDIOT.