People have the DAT????

Sly Wolf · Feb 3, 2007

I have been hearing TONS of rumors about people having the DAT.
I have heard that one guy sent in one of his friends and he recorded himself repeating all the questions, so that now one of the five versions is out. Also I have heard that some students have friends that walk out of the test and write down questions...and for some it has accumulated to over 100 questions!

Am I the only one that finds this to be extremely discouraging!!! Is there anything we can do about it?? I really want this to be fixed..
the people that actually studied and worked hard...u hear "they probably cheated!" and thats just wrong... All input welcome...

Speeddater · Feb 3, 2007

Sly Wolf said:
I have been hearing TONS of rumors about people having the DAT.
I have heard that one guy sent in one of his friends and he recorded himself repeating all the questions, so that now one of the five versions is out. Also I have heard that some students have friends that walk out of the test and write down questions...and for some it has accumulated to over 100 questions!

Am I the only one that finds this to be extremely discouraging!!! Is there anything we can do about it?? I really want this to be fixed..
the people that actually studied and worked hard...u hear "they probably cheated!" and thats just wrong... All input welcome...

How can this be? Don't they have security cameras that literally oversees your every move. I don't understand, how they would be able to pull this off.

Speeddater · Feb 3, 2007

Sly Wolf said:
I have been hearing TONS of rumors about people having the DAT.
I have heard that one guy sent in one of his friends and he recorded himself repeating all the questions, so that now one of the five versions is out. Also I have heard that some students have friends that walk out of the test and write down questions...and for some it has accumulated to over 100 questions!

Am I the only one that finds this to be extremely discouraging!!! Is there anything we can do about it?? I really want this to be fixed..
the people that actually studied and worked hard...u hear "they probably cheated!" and thats just wrong... All input welcome...

By the way, James Bond is the man, did you see the new movie: Casino Royale?

dddsmack · Feb 3, 2007

How do we know there are only five versions of the DAT?

Sly Wolf · Feb 3, 2007

I have heard that based on people comparing questions and reading comp passages, that there are 4 or 5 different versions of the DAT. Kaplan admins knows this too, I have also heard that directly from them. So for bio questions there are about 160 - 200 different bio questions. Who knows how many repeat between them so it could be even less.

Some people have said that there is a passage on one of the DAT programs that is identical to the one on the DAT.
Thus,
DAT is losing its weight in the eyes of a lot of people. Why cant it be more like the mcats where cheating is impossible.
I know for a fact that many people have had some of the more challenging questions ahead of time.

WHAT CAN WE DO ABOUT IT!?!?

Columbia07 · Feb 3, 2007

I highly doubt that there are only 5 versions of the DAT. I would bet that there is a pool of questions for each section and the test you get is a random sampling from the pool of questions. I would hope that the people in charge of making/administering the DAT are not that stupid...

Sly Wolf · Feb 3, 2007

It seems that they are...
There are people that truly are not smart enough to score as high as they did....
Trust me... I have tutored some of them...only to find out later that they had an arsenal of questions...they knew close to nothing in bio....

That just makes me feel like crap! I really want to do something about this..

dddsmack · Feb 3, 2007

Sly,

SDN is not the palce to deal with this perceived problem. Nobody's answers will be good enough for you. Call the ADA first thing monday morning and rat out your sources so you will feel better.

Zanderale6 · Feb 3, 2007

Columbia07 said:
I would bet that there is a pool of questions for each section and the test you get is a random sampling from the pool of questions.

This is basically what I've heard is the case. ... There's no way there's only five versions of the DAT.

Sly Wolf · Feb 3, 2007

dddsmack said:
Sly,

SDN is not the palce to deal with this perceived problem. Nobody's answers will be good enough for you. Call the ADA first thing monday morning and rat out your sources so you will feel better.

But then it will just be my word against that person's....

dddsmack · Feb 3, 2007

Sly Wolf said:
I have been hearing TONS of rumors about people having the DAT.
I have heard that one guy sent in one of his friends and he recorded himself repeating all the questions, so that now one of the five versions is out. Also I have heard that some students have friends that walk out of the test and write down questions...and for some it has accumulated to over 100 questions!

Am I the only one that finds this to be extremely discouraging!!! Is there anything we can do about it?? I really want this to be fixed..
the people that actually studied and worked hard...u hear "they probably cheated!" and thats just wrong... All input welcome...

The only thing you can do bro is just work your ass off, get a great score and go to dental school. Forget about everyone else, worry about you doing well and you will get accepted. What else are you after?

I have spoken my peace in this thread. late

EDIT: you can always commiserate with Hotty on all the injustuces of the world and how to deal with them.

Sly Wolf · Feb 4, 2007

dddsmack said:
The only thing you can do bro is just work your ass off, get a great score and go to dental school. Forget about everyone else, worry about you doing well and you will get accepted. What else are you after?

I have spoken my peace in this thread. late

EDIT: you can always commiserate with Hotty on all the injustuces of the world and how to deal with them.

I did work hard.
I've taken the DAT.
I got into dental school.

I just dont want to have future colleagues and classmates that do not deserve to be there.

I was really hoping there was something I could do.
Am I the only one hearing these rumors??

BodybldgDoc · Feb 4, 2007

Sly Wolf said:
I did work hard.
I've taken the DAT.
I got into dental school.

I just dont want to have future colleagues and classmates that do not deserve to be there.

I was really hoping there was something I could do.
Am I the only one hearing these rumors??

Now that you got into D school as you claim, If i were you i would worry more about getting through Dental school and care less about these so called rumors you speak of. Do you have too much time on your hands to write a rant and whine about rumors you heared on an online Predental forum? Get a girlfriend and then get an active social life if that helps. I for one do not advocate cheating in any way but it does bother me when people are concerned about everything else but themselves. And to be quite honest, you come off as quite the pompous a** when you make statements like YOU THINK people are not smart enough to score as high as they did or YOU THINK someone deserves or doesnt deserve to be in D school? Well who do YOU THINK you really are? You cant stomach the fact that other people who in YOUR OPINION are not as smart as you are indeed scoring well and it gets under your skin.
I think you're a little paranoid to be upset by rumors especially since you are already in D school and obviously a little lonely with too much time on your hands to be making a post about this, so you might want to try to keep yourself busy with things that are actually worth YOUR time.

jackbauer! · Feb 4, 2007

sly--don't sweat it man....there are way more than 5 versions of the DAT and i'm guessing that the Q bank is over 1000 for each section. The ADA adds new questions all the time..

the DAT has become increasingly more difficult over the years. If you want proof, check out the ADA sample exam. That is an actual exam from back in the day. the exam you would take today is more difficult by 10 fold.

however, i do believe that there are people that "cheat" by tell others the "tough" questions that they encountered on test day. my belief, is the the science section of the DAT consists of about 85 straight-forward fair game questions, and then 15 way out in left field kinda questions (stuff that we haven't seen before that separates the 19-20 people from the 22+ people). i dunno if this is true, but it really seems to be.

either way, the ADA is well aware of the possibilty of people telling/recording questions and you can be sure that they are tweaking the test & adding questions on a continuous basis. but if you know for fact that these people have material that is giving them a huge competitve edge, then i suggest you be proactive about it.

jb!

Sly Wolf · Feb 4, 2007

BodybldgDoc said:
Now that you got into D school as you claim, If i were you i would worry more about getting through Dental school and care less about these so called rumors you speak of. Do you have too much time on your hands to write a rant and whine about rumors you heared on an online Predental forum? Get a girlfriend and then get an active social life if that helps. I for one do not advocate cheating in any way but it does bother me when people are concerned about everything else but themselves. And to be quite honest, you come off as quite the pompous a** when you make statements like YOU THINK people are not smart enough to score as high as they did or YOU THINK someone deserves or doesnt deserve to be in D school? Well who do YOU THINK you really are? You cant stomach the fact that other people who in YOUR OPINION are not as smart as you are indeed scoring well and it gets under your skin.
I think you're a little paranoid to be upset by rumors especially since you are already in D school and obviously a little lonely with too much time on your hands to be making a post about this, so you might want to try to keep yourself busy with things that are actually worth YOUR time.

Wow, that's a heavily loaded personal attack. You need to calm down.
BodybldgDoc this effects everyone. As a leader, I like to take iniative and try to improve my surroundings in any way that I can. Unlike you, I have seen qualified people turned away from dental schools for people that have lied and cheated. If you are ok with that, then I think you have bit too much steriods running through your system.
Anyways,
I did not make comments claiming people in general are not smart enough. There are people that I know. That I have tutored. That I have taken courses with. That have not broken more than 20 in bio on any of the practice tests, that all of sudden score a perfect on the Bio on the DAT. If you were in my position you would think it strange. And if that person is close enough to you to tell you he had an arsenal of questions for the DAT, you would just as disappointed as I am.
This is not me just venting, or being jealous. This affects all of us. When people are saying the dat is a joke, or the test is out there, or the constant "did you have the questions?" takes away from those that have worked hard to get into dental school.
This is just one of many things, such as people fabricating volunteer hours, research positions...But I find this the most disheartening.

Now if you are going to take the 'follower' position, or the 'what can one person do' mentality, then I feel bad for you. We all have the opportunity to improve and strengthen the field of dentistry and we should all try within the means we are capable of.

litldime · Feb 4, 2007

Sly Wolf said:
I just dont want to have future colleagues and classmates that do not deserve to be there.

I don't think this is your call to make. I understand your concern but if ppl are really cheating or whatever, it will come back and bite them... karma can be a bitch. I don't think there is any point in being hung up on this... People cheat all the time... whether its on a test, lab, or exam...there's really nothing you or I can do.
I totally agree with you that people who don't deserve d-school shouldn't be there but in everything people who don't deserve things get them...its a harsh reality.
plus, adcoms are the ones who make the decision of who gets in based on their overall packet so we have no choice but to trust their judgement...
-ld

Snahster · Feb 4, 2007

Sly Wolf said:
Wow, that's a heavily loaded personal attack. You need to calm down.
BodybldgDoc this effects everyone. As a leader, I like to take iniative and try to improve my surroundings in any way that I can. Unlike you, I have seen qualified people turned away from dental schools for people that have lied and cheated. If you are ok with that, then I think you have bit too much steriods running through your system.
Anyways,
I did not make comments claiming people in general are not smart enough. There are people that I know. That I have tutored. That I have taken courses with. That have not broken more than 20 in bio on any of the practice tests, that all of sudden score a perfect on the Bio on the DAT. If you were in my position you would think it strange. And if that person is close enough to you to tell you he had an arsenal of questions for the DAT, you would just as disappointed as I am.
This is not me just venting, or being jealous. This affects all of us. When people are saying the dat is a joke, or the test is out there, or the constant "did you have the questions?" takes away from those that have worked hard to get into dental school.
This is just one of many things, such as people fabricating volunteer hours, research positions...But I find this the most disheartening.

Now if you are going to take the 'follower' position, or the 'what can one person do' mentality, then I feel bad for you. We all have the opportunity to improve and strengthen the field of dentistry and we should all try within the means we are capable of.

Listen, Think of it this way. If this person cheats on the DAT it probably means they don't have the smarts to do the test on their own. That means when they get into dental school which is much more difficult/taxing than the stupid DAT what is going to happen is they will fail miserably. Or when they go to take their boards they will fail miserably. Either way they are screwed. They wasted their money on their first year or 2 of dental education and drop out. Karma....

BodybldgDoc · Feb 4, 2007

Sly Wolf said:
Wow, that's a heavily loaded personal attack. You need to calm down.
BodybldgDoc this effects everyone. As a leader, I like to take iniative and try to improve my surroundings in any way that I can. Unlike you, I have seen qualified people turned away from dental schools for people that have lied and cheated. If you are ok with that, then I think you have bit too much steriods running through your system.
Anyways,
I did not make comments claiming people in general are not smart enough. There are people that I know. That I have tutored. That I have taken courses with. That have not broken more than 20 in bio on any of the practice tests, that all of sudden score a perfect on the Bio on the DAT. If you were in my position you would think it strange. And if that person is close enough to you to tell you he had an arsenal of questions for the DAT, you would just as disappointed as I am.
This is not me just venting, or being jealous. This affects all of us. When people are saying the dat is a joke, or the test is out there, or the constant "did you have the questions?" takes away from those that have worked hard to get into dental school.
This is just one of many things, such as people fabricating volunteer hours, research positions...But I find this the most disheartening.

Now if you are going to take the 'follower' position, or the 'what can one person do' mentality, then I feel bad for you. We all have the opportunity to improve and strengthen the field of dentistry and we should all try within the means we are capable of.

The fact that you think you're friend had an arsenal of bio questions on the DAT still doesnt take away from the fact how you think certain people are beneath you and shouldnt deserve certain things. It is not your call to make. For all you know your friend could have gotten lucky. I really doubt your friend had ALL the answers to ALL of the Bio questions that showed up on the DAT. And EVEN IF your friend did have all the answers to all of the bio questions, failing to do well on other sections on the DAT would have pulled down your friends score neway which means your friend must have had "some" capability of doing well on the test. And Besides the DAT is just a small part of getting into dental school. theres interviews and recommendations and extracurriculars and many other things that go along with the application process. The bottomline is YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR FRIEND DID. ALL YOU ARE GOING ON IS HEARSAY. I think getting riled up over rumors is a pretty stupid thing to do unless you have some proof. So in essence you missed the whole point of my post about how to stop wasting your time with rumors and now you are trying to get all high and mighty from a leadership standpoint. I would love to improve and strengthen the field of dentistry, however I would need to have much more of a basis to go on than what "my friend told me".
P.S- I think your friend knows exactly the kind of person you are and told you that to get under your skin.
P.S.S- No. I dont have any steroids running through my system.

KOM · Feb 5, 2007

If you're upset about it, try to obtain this "arsenal of answers" from your source, write a letter explaining how these questions are circulating, and then send it to the ADA.

busupshot83 · Feb 5, 2007

BodybldgDoc said:
Now that you got into D school as you claim, If i were you i would worry more about getting through Dental school and care less about these so called rumors you speak of. Do you have too much time on your hands to write a rant and whine about rumors you heared on an online Predental forum? Get a girlfriend and then get an active social life if that helps. I for one do not advocate cheating in any way but it does bother me when people are concerned about everything else but themselves. And to be quite honest, you come off as quite the pompous a** when you make statements like YOU THINK people are not smart enough to score as high as they did or YOU THINK someone deserves or doesnt deserve to be in D school? Well who do YOU THINK you really are? You cant stomach the fact that other people who in YOUR OPINION are not as smart as you are indeed scoring well and it gets under your skin.
I think you're a little paranoid to be upset by rumors especially since you are already in D school and obviously a little lonely with too much time on your hands to be making a post about this, so you might want to try to keep yourself busy with things that are actually worth YOUR time.

Awesome post

.

polf · Feb 5, 2007

I have heard of this rumor only for the GRE and TOFEL, and that was based mainly in foreign countries where security was lacking.

The basis of it is true though, the DAT is computer based and therefore given out everyday. There is no way they can give out completely different tests each time, plus they need to keep the questions the same/similar so it is 'standarized'.

byorkie · Feb 5, 2007

There are only 4-5 versions of the DAT. This past summer there was actually a website where people had listed questions that had be asked on the DAT.

johntara04 · Feb 5, 2007

Don't worry about it. The ADA guards the DAT very, very closely. A couple of years ago, there were 4 pre-meds from California that nailed the MCATS. They basically got perfect scores on every section of the test. The MCATS sent letters to every school they applied to and said there was no way that they could of done this well and that they suspected the students had found a way to cheat the test. Those guys didn't get in anywhere and ended up suing the MCAT's because of the letters, etc, etc. The DAT is a multi-million dollar business and they will do everything they can to protect it. I would worry more about enjoying your last free year before you start dental school and disappear for 2-4 years.

DrBowtie · Feb 5, 2007

johntara04 said:
Don't worry about it. The ADA guards the DAT very, very closely. A couple of years ago, there were 4 pre-meds from California that nailed the MCATS. They basically got perfect scores on every section of the test. The MCATS sent letters to every school they applied to and said there was no way that they could of done this well and that they suspected the students had found a way to cheat the test. Those guys didn't get in anywhere and ended up suing the MCAT's because of the letters, etc, etc. The DAT is a multi-million dollar business and they will do everything they can to protect it. I would worry more about enjoying your last free year before you start dental school and disappear for 2-4 years.

Source? Online snippet? etc.?

Streetwolf · Feb 5, 2007

There aren't 4 or 5 versions. What are you people smoking?

Has anyone taken a Kaplan course? I didn't know it at the time, but they apparently pay people to sit in on the DAT and copy questions/answers. So a lot of what you see on those practice tests were actual DAT questions at some point.

Now I've taken 4 or 5 Kaplan practice tests plus at least 3-5 practice quizzes per section on top of that. Maybe a couple questions were similar but I don't think any were repeats. What happened when I took the real test? NOTHING WAS THE SAME!

With 10+ chapters per science in the study book, I could easily come up with 100+ questions to ask someone. There are so many ways to reword questions. You can ask 'which is not true' as opposed to 'which of the following is correct'. You can do one of those stupid roman numeral questions. The list goes on. You could probably find 10 ways to ask a question about filtration in the nephron for example.

With so many questions in their arsenal there is no way anyone could cover enough so that they'd do significantly better than someone else who hasn't seen any of the questions.

I took the Kaplan course. Are you calling me a cheater? I had no idea they copied the questions down. I didn't memorize their questions; I merely learned the material from the questions I got wrong or wasn't sure about. I had an interviewer at Stony Brook ask me how I felt about being a criminal because I 'stole' questions from the DAT. Though I've heard from people who go there that his sense of humor is a bit odd, it was still just a bit insulting.

eleminopee · Feb 5, 2007

BodybldgDoc said:
Now that you got into D school as you claim, If i were you i would worry more about getting through Dental school and care less about these so called rumors you speak of. Do you have too much time on your hands to write a rant and whine about rumors you heared on an online Predental forum? Get a girlfriend and then get an active social life if that helps. I for one do not advocate cheating in any way but it does bother me when people are concerned about everything else but themselves. And to be quite honest, you come off as quite the pompous a** when you make statements like YOU THINK people are not smart enough to score as high as they did or YOU THINK someone deserves or doesnt deserve to be in D school? Well who do YOU THINK you really are? You cant stomach the fact that other people who in YOUR OPINION are not as smart as you are indeed scoring well and it gets under your skin.
I think you're a little paranoid to be upset by rumors especially since you are already in D school and obviously a little lonely with too much time on your hands to be making a post about this, so you might want to try to keep yourself busy with things that are actually worth YOUR time.

dont be a jerk

deerhunter · Feb 5, 2007

byorkie said:
There are only 4-5 versions of the DAT. This past summer there was actually a website where people had listed questions that had be asked on the DAT.

So the website is no longer functioning? Where did you learn that there are only 4-5 versions?

Fuji · Feb 5, 2007

Since this whole debate is based on rumor and supposition, I'll add my thoughts:

I heard from the Boston Police that Mooninites are invading the US.

aphistis · Feb 5, 2007

Closing.

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