accepted to your nightmare school

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Can anyone else verify this beyond hearsay? I keep hearing variations on a theme and no one seems to provide a clear, distinct source.
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Of course they don't because, frankly, I think it's an SDN myth. There have been many people who've posted on SDN, saying that they turned down an acceptance, then got in the following year to a school they actually wanted to attend. If you want to read a recent post like that, check out Wizard of Oz's post in the other thread on this topic. He applied, got in, turned it down because it wasn't MD/PhD, and got in again the next year. Will you have to explain your reasoning? Sure. That's a safe bet. But it doesn't mean you'll be blacklisted.

I'd be curious to get Lizzy or REL's opinion on this matter. If they wouldn't mind posting here, I'd really love to hear from an actual adcom member that if you don't take your acceptance, you can kiss your med school dreams goodbye.
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Regarding the consequences of reapplying after turning down an acceptance, I repeat that I have just asked about this on the Adcom Advice Thread, so an answer from at least one adcom member should be provided within a week.
 
Why would you apply to a school that you know you're going to hate, don't want to go to, and would turn down an acceptance? If you realistically wouldn't go, don't apply.
 
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lsumedgirl said:
Why would you apply to a school that you know you're going to hate, don't want to go to, and would turn down an acceptance? If you realistically wouldn't go, don't apply.
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Did you bother to read the thread?
 
Chulito said:
Regarding the consequences of reapplying after turning down an acceptance, I repeat that I have just asked about this on the Adcom Advice Thread, so an answer from at least one adcom member should be provided within a week.
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Where is the adcom advice thread?
 
Regarding the possibility of being blacklisted for turning down an acceptance in favor of reapplying the following year, I have been in PM contact with LizzyM, who is an adcom member. She gave me permission to cut-and-paste her answer to my question into this thread and the other threads where this topic is being discussed. Here is what she had to say.

LizzyM said:
Hi,
Go ahead & post this on the pre-allo forum....

I haven't any insider information on this topic. From where I am (an adcom member who reads applications and interviews applicants), I wouldn't know that someone had turned down an offer the year before unless someone mentioned it in an essay or LOR (that would be nuts but I wouldn't rule it out).

If there were information available indicating that someone had turned down an offer in order to apply the following year, then the applicant would have to make a good case for having reapplied as such action calls into question one's desire to attend medical school.LizzyM
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This is only one adcom's report of what happens at one school, not necessarily the norm. It is also not necessarily the whole story, since the information may be available to other people at different points in the admissions process, of course. But she, at least, is not privy to knowledge about previous acceptances being turned down when reading applications or interviewing a candidate.

I am pursuing other adcoms and will post information as I get it. I've also posted this question in the ADCOMS: SEMI-SOLICITED ADVICE thread that is stickied at the top of the pre-allo page. Look there for an answer from Adcom2 at some point in the next week.
 
What happens if you get accepted but you never sent in the deposit, in effect declining the acceptance - is this the same thing as paying the deposit and holding a seat, only to decline it afterwards?

Also, what if we intended to withdraw our application, but the time interval b/w the decision to accept and interview day was 1 week?? Before we can even withdraw, we find out we're accepted! What then?

I mean, school's cannot see where you have been accepted at prior to May 15 anyway, so if you turn down your acceptances before then, no schools will ever know where you were accepted at. I don't see how this would be a problem!
 
xylem29 said:
What happens if you get accepted but you never sent in the deposit, in effect declining the acceptance - is this the same thing as paying the deposit and holding a seat, only to decline it afterwards?

Also, what if we intended to withdraw our application, but the time interval b/w the decision to accept and interview day was 1 week?? Before we can even withdraw, we find out we're accepted! What then?

I mean, school's cannot see where you have been accepted at prior to May 15 anyway, so if you turn down your acceptances before then, no schools will ever know where you were accepted at. I don't see how this would be a problem!
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I think that they wil see that you were accepted but declined the offer though.... the question is if this is the case, how "detrimental", if at all, is it (that also may be school specific though)
 
MedStudentWanna said:
Will you have to explain your reasoning? Sure. That's a safe bet. But it doesn't mean you'll be blacklisted.
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To bring it back to the OP's case: Maybe he wouldn't be blacklisted. But he MIGHT have to explain his reasoning to the adcom at another school. (We still don't know for sure.) And I really don't think that any adcom is going to accept "the neighborhood looked a little ghetto" as a valid reason. Throw in the name of the school, and no adcom is going to agree with you that this was a compelling reason. Temple has a reputation for not being in a good neighborhood, but it's also know that its students generally do not walk around campus in fear for their lives. Saying "I didn't like the location" is only going to work if the school is located in the middle of a truly dangerous neighborhood.
 
smq123 said:
To bring it back to the OP's case: Maybe he wouldn't be blacklisted. But he MIGHT have to explain his reasoning to the adcom at another school. (We still don't know for sure.) And I really don't think that any adcom is going to accept "the neighborhood looked a little ghetto" as a valid reason. Throw in the name of the school, and no adcom is going to agree with you that this was a compelling reason. Temple has a reputation for not being in a good neighborhood, but it's also know that its students generally do not walk around campus in fear for their lives. Saying "I didn't like the location" is only going to work if the school is located in the middle of a truly dangerous neighborhood.
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Agreed. I don't think "too dangerous a neighborhood" is going to come across as a good enough reason for many adcoms. Lots of adcom members, at some point in their college/med school/residency/fellowship lives, likely will have lived in dangerous cities. Some will have worked in multiple urban settings over the years. You are sure to rub someone the wrong way with this.
 
Law2Doc said:
Agreed. I don't think "too dangerous a neighborhood" is going to come across as a good enough reason for many adcoms. Lots of adcom members, at some point in their college/med school/residency/fellowship lives, likely will have lived in dangerous cities. Some will have worked in multiple urban settings over the years. You are sure to rub someone the wrong way with this.
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In the issue of reapplying after gaining an acceptance, I have personally known one person who got accepted at one school and turned it down to reapply. The reasoning was that the school was an out of state school which would have cost more and in the middle of the Dakotas where there wasn't much out there and she'd have to move completely away from family. She talked to the adcoms at our state schools and they told her what to do to improve her chances here and she did that and got in the following year at at least 2 florida schools. So it just depends.
 
"Nightmare" school? I'm not sure that I understand. Is your goal to be a "happy medical student", or to become a doctor? Whether or not they are a "perfect fit", ALL the med schools in this country will teach you medicine very well. Being at a school that you love for other reasons is an added bonus. If your dream is to become a doctor, the only real nightmare is not getting accepted ANYWHERE. Of course, if you are accepted to more than one school you have the luxury of picking your "favorite", which is a wonderful opportunity. But the concept of not going to med school at all that year -because the school to which you've been accepted is not your favorite- perplexes me. If you are accepted to only one med school, viewing it as a "nightmare" school is hard to understand, because even if it's not the "perfect fit"....it offers the path to the fulfillment of your dreams.
 
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And I really don't think that any adcom is going to accept "the neighborhood looked a little ghetto" as a valid reason. Throw in the name of the school, and no adcom is going to agree with you that this was a compelling reason.
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Who said he has to say that? He's got a perfect excuse in citing the tuition and saying he just couldn't afford to take out that many loans to pay for a school he didn't feel he would fit in at. You people act like adcoms aren't people. Newsflash: they're human. They know what it's like when you see a school that you really don't like, regardless of the reason. You just don't feel comfortable there and asking someone to swallow $300 K in student loans just to go there is silly. It doesn't have to be about safety or any one thing specifically. You just, overall, didn't like the school and decided it wasn't the place for you. So you return home and before you could type your letter to withdraw from consideration, you got their acceptance. I would bet most adcoms wouldn't have the kind of problem you people are thinking they would.

And so far, many people have come out and posted that it is possible to get an acceptance after turning one down, so what's the problem? There's a troubling mentality here on SDN, as if we, as pre-meds must just take anything we're given because since we want to be physicians, we can't be in charge of our own lives. It's up to someone else to tell us where we must go and if we don't obey, then we're shunned from the profession. That's hogwash and you all know it!
 
MedStudentWanna- please, no insult intended...I fully respect your opinions. But... aren't you really DoctorWanna? You will be a med student for 4 years..... and a doctor for the rest of your life.
 
beenthere2 said:
MedStudentWanna- please, no insult intended...I fully respect your opinions. But... aren't you really DoctorWanna? You will be a med student for 4 years..... and a doctor for the rest of your life.
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I'm not getting your point. Yes you will be a doctor for the rest of your life, but where you go to med school will impact your career. If you go some place you aren't comfortable or don't fit in and you have to drag yourself out of bed, you may not do as well as you would in a place you WANTED to go to. And if you don't do well, what makes you think you can get the specialty you want?

Med school is rough enough as it is. If you check the allo board, you'll see how many of the first year class are depressed, some even want out. Why exacerbate that feeling (that I hear is pretty common among first years) by going to a school you already know you hate instead of waiting a year and reapplying and taking your chances?
 
MedStudentWanna said:
I'm not getting your point. Yes you will be a doctor for the rest of your life, but where you go to med school will impact your career. If you go some place you aren't comfortable or don't fit in and you have to drag yourself out of bed, you may not do as well as you would in a place you WANTED to go to. And if you don't do well, what makes you think you can get the specialty you want?

Med school is rough enough as it is. If you check the allo board, you'll see how many of the first year class are depressed, some even want out. Why exacerbate that feeling (that I hear is pretty common among first years) by going to a school you already know you hate instead of waiting a year and reapplying and taking your chances?
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I truly understand how you feel, and it is a reasonable impression. My feeling, though, is that med school depression occurs across the board- it is not likely related to which med school you are attending (unless of course the depression is due to geographic separation from a significant other which would be a serious problem with the choice of school). It's a stressful, tough path, no matter where you go.

Good luck to you and everyone!
 
beenthere2 said:
MedStudentWanna- please, no insult intended...I fully respect your opinions. But... aren't you really DoctorWanna? You will be a med student for 4 years..... and a doctor for the rest of your life.
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beenthere2, according to your train of thought, becoming a doctor is path independent. While many on SDN share this sentiment, I have to say it is not universal, and more often than not, is extremely narrow minded. Becoming a doctor and being a doctor, although inextricably linked, are multifaceted paths in and of themselves. For example, who are we to tell this guy to drop 72k a year on a school he doesn't like or doesn't feel comfortable at for arguably the best years of his life only to possibly graduate embittered, in debt, and trapped in the medical profession? I'm sure his patients would love that. But hey, according to you, he would be a doctor right?

One thing is for certain: I wouldn't go. Does that mean I want to be a doctor any less than you all? No, it means I am a rational human being who responds to incentives like everyone else. For someone else, this school could be great, for him it's not.

So please guys, no more "it doesn't matter how you get there as long as you are a doctor!" rants. They are not universal and ill conceived.
 
James Moriarty said:
beenthere2, according to your train of thought, becoming a doctor is path independent. While many on SDN share this sentiment, I have to say it is not universal, and more often than not, is extremely narrow minded. Becoming a doctor and being a doctor, although inextricably linked, are multifaceted paths in and of themselves. For example, who are we to tell this guy to drop 72k a year on a school he doesn't like or doesn't feel comfortable at for arguably the best years of his life only to possibly graduate embittered, in debt, and trapped in the medical profession? I'm sure his patients would love that. But hey, according to you, he would be a doctor right?

One thing is for certain: I wouldn't go. Does that mean I want to be a doctor any less than you all? No, it means I am a rational human being who responds to incentives like everyone else. For someone else, this school could be great, for him it's not.

So please guys, no more "it doesn't matter how you get there as long as you are a doctor!" rants. They are not universal and ill conceived.
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Wow...I certainly wouldn't call a differing opinion an "ill-conceived rant". You are certainly entitled to YOUR opinion, and it may very well be correct for you. Personally I don't think that the med school experience would render someone "embittered...feeling trapped" in the medical professsion, affecting his eventual patient care. I think that the choice of the wrong residency or specialty is more likely to do this.

Follow your heart and your beliefs....but please don't belittle me for a variant opinion.
 
My aim was neither to belittle you nor invalidate your opinion. If you construed my response as such, I sincerely apologize. Nevertheless, I still stand by what I said: universally stating becoming a doctor is path independent is ill conceived. That assertion was not meant to insult you, your character, or your intelligence. I try my best to stay away from ad hominem.

Back to the original topic, do you honestly believe feeling miserable at your medical institution for four years won't have an everlasting effect on your personality (need I remind you it's 72k a year :eek: )? The quality of life does, in fact, matter. Perhaps you are right though, perhaps its dependent on how much you want it. It just seems to reason that you would not spend all of that money and endure something you don't want to endure for the sake of having an MD degree. Becoming a doctor is not the end all, be all of life.
 
James Moriarty said:
My aim was neither to belittle you nor invalidate your opinion. If you construed my response as such, I sincerely apologize. Nevertheless, I still stand by what I said: universally stating becoming a doctor is path independent is ill conceived. That assertion was not meant to insult you, your character, or your intelligence. I try my best to stay away from ad hominem.

Back to the original topic, do you honestly believe feeling miserable at your medical institution for four years won't have an everlasting effect on your personality (need I remind you it's 72k a year :eek: )? The quality of life does, in fact, matter. Perhaps you are right though, perhaps its dependent on how much you want it. It just seems to reason that you would not spend all of that money and endure something you don't want to endure for the sake of having an MD degree. Becoming a doctor is not the end all, be all of life.
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I appreciate your apology, and believe me, it was not my intent to preach either. I'm sorry if it came across that way. Good luck.:oops:

By the way...did you see my original post at 10:10, or were you just responding to my short post to MedStudentWanna?
 
MedStudentWanna said:
It's up to someone else to tell us where we must go and if we don't obey, then we're shunned from the profession. That's hogwash and you all know it!
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Ummm...actually...there's this thing called the ERAS and the residency match...

MedStudentWanna said:
Who said he has to say that? He's got a perfect excuse in citing the tuition and saying he just couldn't afford to take out that many loans to pay for a school he didn't feel he would fit in at. You people act like adcoms aren't people. Newsflash: they're human. They know what it's like when you see a school that you really don't like, regardless of the reason. You just don't feel comfortable there and asking someone to swallow $300 K in student loans just to go there is silly. It doesn't have to be about safety or any one thing specifically. You just, overall, didn't like the school and decided it wasn't the place for you. So you return home and before you could type your letter to withdraw from consideration, you got their acceptance. I would bet most adcoms wouldn't have the kind of problem you people are thinking they would.

And so far, many people have come out and posted that it is possible to get an acceptance after turning one down, so what's the problem? There's a troubling mentality here on SDN, as if we, as pre-meds must just take anything we're given because since we want to be physicians, we can't be in charge of our own lives. It's up to someone else to tell us where we must go and if we don't obey, then we're shunned from the profession. That's hogwash and you all know it!
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Thank you for telling me what the adcoms are like! Despite the fact that they are my professors and mentors, no I didn't realize that they were human! Thank you for clueing me in!

Please. I didn't realize that you were a pre-med. I guess I'll have to spell it out for you very slowly.

Look, since you're a pre-med who hasn't been accepted to medical school (and has probably not applied yet either), there are some things that you need to learn. Most med students, before they start med school, have a lot of doubts and fears. They worry that they're not good enough to cut it, they worry that their relationship with a bf/gf might not survive, they worry that maybe medicine isn't the right career for them. Shortly before starting medical school I worried a lot, and my biggest fear was that I had decided to go to the wrong school. Luckily for me, I had people who were willing to sit down with me and ask me, "Why don't you like this school? Why do you think you'll hate it? What specific fears do you have?" They forced me to analyze my fears about my school, and forced me to realize that I was really just dreading MEDICAL SCHOOL in general, and not this particular school. I'm glad that they did - otherwise I might have pulled out of a school for some stupid reasons.

To the med students on this thread, that's what it seems like the OP is doing - letting his overall worries about med school cloud his judgment. Yes, it's a lot of money (although NOT $72K! - $25K in living expenses is way too exaggerated), and sure, that should be a factor. And I'm not saying that you should never decline an acceptance. There are some instances where I think that a person would be better off by re-applying next year. But the OP's case doesn't sound like one of them.

Maybe he didn't like the school, for some unspecified reason. But, unlike choosing an undergrad, that's not a compelling reason to turn down an acceptance. When you actually apply to med school, you may truly understand the meaning of the phrase "beggers can't be choosers".

Finally, the issue of being "blacklisted" is NOT the only reason why he should reconsider re-applying next year. The number of good applicants is going up every year. Jefferson received 10% more applications this year than last year. With the new MCAT being offered 2x a year, I'm sure that the number of applications is going to skyrocket. How can you be so sure that the OP will be a competitive applicant next year? He's only got 4 months or so to really boost his application.
 
gsmithers68 said:
So what if you got accepted to a school that you know would drive you clinically insane if you had to attend for four years, but that is your only acceptance. Lets say it is also going to cost you nearly 60,000 to go a year.

Do you...

A. go and just grind it out

B. withdraw and reapply the following year

And would withdrawing an acceptance to a school look really bad if you applied again the following year?
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Wouldn't have applied there in the first place.
 
James Moriarty said:
Back to the original topic, do you honestly believe feeling miserable at your medical institution for four years won't have an everlasting effect on your personality (need I remind you it's 72k a year :eek: )? The quality of life does, in fact, matter. Perhaps you are right though, perhaps its dependent on how much you want it. It just seems to reason that you would not spend all of that money and endure something you don't want to endure for the sake of having an MD degree. Becoming a doctor is not the end all, be all of life.
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Ohhh...I think I see the reason why this discussion is running around in circles.

In undergrad, your undergrad institution was almost directly responsible for your quality of life. If you go to a good institution that suits you well, you'll almost certainly be happy.

In med school, your medical school institution plays a much smaller role in your quality of life. The curriculum at all schools is generally the same, more or less. Medical students everywhere study A LOT, which takes its toll regardless of where you are. And, if you don't really want to be a doctor, even the best med school in the world can't help you find your motivation. Much of your happiness in med school comes from YOU, NOT FROM THE INSTITUTION. It depends on your ability to balance life/work, on your ability to make friends, and on your ability to stay motivated. People who leave their med school tend to leave it for personal reasons - to be closer to a fiance, etc. People who are miserable in med school also tend to be miserable for personal reasons: they're going through a bad breakup/divorce, a family member just died, etc.

That's one of the big differences b/w med school and undergrad.

And it's NOT $72K. $25K in living expenses is a little high, even for Philadelphia.
 
Ummm...actually...there's this thing called the ERAS and the residency match...
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What does that have to do with anything? You rank programs in the residency match. If you interview somewhere and hate it, you certainly wouldn't rank it in your top three. In fact, if anything, that hurts your argument. If this were residency, this wouldn't even be a question b/c the OP wouldn't have ranked this particular program after the interview. The only reason this is an issue is because the acceptance came before the withdrawal.

When you actually apply to med school, you may truly understand the meaning of the phrase "beggers can't be choosers".
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And that, my friend, is the problem with your mentality. You're a beggar. How sad for you. I look at myself as someone who's qualified to become a med student and who refuses to spend $300 K on a school that I'm not sold on. And in some ways, you do too. Otherwise, you would have applied to every school east and west of the Mississippi. Something tells me you didn't, like many people don't. We pick where we apply and we don't apply to places we won't be happy. In rare instances, we apply to a place we don't know we won't be happy about until after interview day and in the time that follows, if we get an acceptance, we're well within our rights to decline without some snooty, snobbish med students looking down on us because they happen to be of the mindset that people should donate a limb for the honor of getting into any med school, regardless of personal discomfort. That's desperation, buddy. And if there's one thing I'm not, it's desperate.

To the med students on this thread, that's what it seems like the OP is doing - letting his overall worries about med school cloud his judgment.
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Hmm, the OP has already stated that he's uncomfortable with the environment. What about that is confusing to you? Or are you just so eager to assign psychological motivations for his apprehension that you're going to disregard what HE says HE'S feeling in favor of your non-expert rubbish of an opinion?
 
MedStudentWanna said:
And that, my friend, is the problem with your mentality. You're a beggar. How sad for you. I look at myself as someone who's qualified to be a doctor and who refuses to spend $300 K on a school that I'm not sold on. And in some ways, you do too. Otherwise, you would have applied to every school east and west of the Mississippi. Something tells me you didn't, like many people don't. We pick where we apply and we don't apply to places we won't be happy. In rare instances, we apply to a place we don't know we won't be happy about until after interview day and in the time that follows, if we get an acceptance, we're well within our rights to decline without some snooty, snobbish med students looking down on us because they happen to be of the mindset that people should donate a limb for the honor of getting into any med school, regardless of personal discomfort. That's desperation, buddy. And if there's one thing I'm not, it's desperate.
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Arrogance? :rolleyes:
 
LifetimeDoc said:
Arrogance? :rolleyes:
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Not at all. This process is about selection, not just by medical schools. Again, if everything you guys say is true, then how come every single pre-med doesn't apply to every single med school? Why is it that we all apply to places we'd actually like to go to? It's this over-the-top pretentious crap about med school being the be-all-end-all that you're willing to give up your first born for that coveted acceptance that makes me sick. I'm confident enough in myself and in the qualities that would make me a good med student and, eventually, a good physician, to say I will not attend a medical school that makes me feel uncomfortable during interview day. If that makes me arrogant, so be it, but I don't think it does.
 
Arrogant
Arrogant is an adjective that may refer to having excessive pride in oneself. A person who is arrogant often exaggerates one's own worth or importance in an overbearing manner.

See Also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrogance
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I think people's point about the application process is that you should take it seriously. Medical school, as well as the physician career, is not a game. If you have everything going for you: life circumstances, grades, MCAT, extracurricular activities, you have a magnetic personality, luck, etc. then I guess you can plan the game of getting into every school, playing off each of the schools for scholarship money, and then can have the luxury of picking and choosing where you want to go.

But then there are the rest of us non-God-like people that make up the average physician: intelligent but not a genius, hard working, not perfect, etc. I think that most people think it's crazy for somebody to turn down their sole acceptance to medical school because if you only got into one school then chances are next time you might not get in at all.

If you are a person that can apply to medical school so easily that every school will beg to accept you, then wonderful for you. But you don't need to put the rest of us "mortals" down because our dreams of becoming physicians may be more important than it is to you and that we may have to work harder than you to achieve it.
 
Medical school, as well as the physician career, is not a game. If you have everything going for you: life circumstances, grades, MCAT, extracurricular activities, you have a magnetic personality, luck, etc. then I guess you can plan the game of getting into every school, playing off each of the schools for scholarship money, and then can have the luxury of picking and choosing where you want to go.
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Wait a minute. Are you telling me you don't *choose* where you want to go? I notice you didn't apply to Temple. You obviously made a choice that Temple wasn't for you. Congratulations. You were smarter about it than the OP who only realized Temple wasn't for him after the interview. So what you're saying is that you didn't want to go to Temple, so you didn't apply, but since the OP applied, he should be forced to attend?

Again, that's hogwash. If the OP declines the acceptance, then it'll be as if he never applied and I find nothing wrong with that. If you do, then that's your problem, but you certainly shouldn't be shoving your opinion down the OP's throat.
 
MedStudentWanna said:
Not at all. This process is about selection, not just by medical schools. Again, if everything you guys say is true, then how come every single pre-med doesn't apply to every single med school? Why is it that we all apply to places we'd actually like to go to? It's this over-the-top pretentious crap about med school being the be-all-end-all that you're willing to give up your first born for that coveted acceptance that makes me sick. I'm confident enough in myself and in the qualities that would make me a good med student and, eventually, a good physician, to say I will not attend a medical school that makes me feel uncomfortable during interview day. If that makes me arrogant, so be it, but I don't think it does.
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I met some dude at a school that only applied to one school - he got in.

This other dude I met, current applicant, only applied to two schools this year. Call it what you will - arrogance, confidence, being smart about where they want to go - they save a lot of money.
 
I of course understand some schools are more academically supportive than others. And I also understand that feeling unhappy at a school can directly impact performance. But that aside, I've heard that in terms of applying for competitive residencies, the school you went to is by and far less important than your particular grades and board scores. For other schools I've explored (law/business) school name really does make a difference, but I've heard with medical school, aside from the top 10, it's not as much an issue.

Is that really true? Can someone confirm or refute this for me?

(Oh--this is related to the current thread because IMHO, if it's true, then I'd go to the nightmare school --because I'd know I still have a chance at a good residency provided my motivation and drive and passion for medicine could survive being in a location I didn't like. Um..I hope that logic made sense. It makes sense in my head, I swear.)
 
MedStudentWanna said:
Wait a minute. Are you telling me you don't *choose* where you want to go? I notice you didn't apply to Temple. You obviously made a choice that Temple wasn't for you. Congratulations. You were smarter about it than the OP who only realized Temple wasn't for him after the interview. So what you're saying is that you didn't want to go to Temple, so you didn't apply, but since the OP applied, he should be forced to attend?
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If you only get one acceptance, you can't choose where you want to goto medical school. You only have one choice to go that year. Of course you can apply next year, but it's foolish IMHO (because if you only got accepted to one school, you probably aren't the superstar you think you are). Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything. Geeze :rolleyes:

The OP posted his mini-story and asked people their opinion. How is giving one's opinion to somebody asking for an opinion shoving it down their throat? :confused:

MedStudentWanna said:
Again, that's hogwash. If the OP declines the acceptance, then it'll be as if he never applied and I find nothing wrong with that. If you do, then that's your problem, but you certainly shouldn't be shoving your opinion down the OP's throat.
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Actually not true. If a school asks you, and some do on their secondaries, if you have ever applied to a medical school before, you'd need to answer YES. If they ask "were you ever accepted to a medical school", you'd have to say YES and explain why you didn't go there. I'd have to find it, but I remember a few secondaries I filled out that asked those questions.
 
MedStudentWanna said:
Wait a minute. Are you telling me you don't *choose* where you want to go? I notice you didn't apply to Temple. You obviously made a choice that Temple wasn't for you. Congratulations. You were smarter about it than the OP who only realized Temple wasn't for him after the interview. So what you're saying is that you didn't want to go to Temple, so you didn't apply, but since the OP applied, he should be forced to attend?

Again, that's hogwash. If the OP declines the acceptance, then it'll be as if he never applied and I find nothing wrong with that. If you do, then that's your problem, but you certainly shouldn't be shoving your opinion down the OP's throat.
Click to expand...

well, if the OP didn't want opinions, he wouldn't have posted his dilemma now would he/she?

I think that this is total heresay, as usual, premeds can guess and assume all they want about "what schools look for" (here are some myths: you need to demonstrate that you are well-rounded by reading novels and paying attention to current events) - complete hogwash. Until we find out from the adcoms themselves - let's not assume things like ppl being blacklisted for withdrawing and re-applying. I don't think most adcom members are ignorant enough to think that "oh, he was accepted but then declined and reapplied, hmm, this shows that the person isn't motivated enough to be a doctor" - there's so many different legitimate reasons for why someone would decline an offer to reapply.

here's another myth busted - btw i got accepted to medical school this cycle - guess how much hospital volunteering I have done? NONE. How much shadowing did I do? NONE.
 
I have not read the whole discussion, but is the question about allopathic schools only? I mean if you apply both allo and osteo, get acceptance from an osteo school only and decide it was not for you, will you have a problem next year while reapplying?

Also, it may sound crazy, but is it possible to defer an acceptance at an osteo school and reapply to allo next year?
 
Tessy said:
I have not read the whole discussion, but is the question about allopathic schools only? I mean if you apply both allo and osteo, get acceptance from an osteo school only and decide it was not for you, will you have a problem next year while reapplying?

Also, it may sound crazy, but is it possible to defer an acceptance at an osteo school and reapply to allo next year?
Click to expand...

I don't believe you are allowed to defer and then reapply to other schools.
 
xylem29 said:
I don't think most adcom members are ignorant enough to think that "oh, he was accepted but then declined and reapplied, hmm, this shows that the person isn't motivated enough to be a doctor" - there's so many different legitimate reasons for why someone would decline an offer to reapply.

here's another myth busted - btw i got accepted to medical school this cycle - guess how much hospital volunteering I have done? NONE. How much shadowing did I do? NONE.
Click to expand...

So you are calling LizzyM ignorant? :eek: :rolleyes: :D :laugh: She's a confirmed adcom on SDN and that's what she said! But, I do understand that every adcom is different so some may blacklist and some may not.
 
If you only get one acceptance, you can't choose where you want to goto medical school. You only have one choice to go that year. Of course you can apply next year, but it's foolish IMHO (because if you only got accepted to one school, you probably aren't the superstar you think you are). Nobody is forcing anybody to do anything. Geeze

The OP posted his mini-story and asked people their opinion. How is giving one's opinion to somebody asking for an opinion shoving it down their throat?
Click to expand...

That comment wasn't actually directed at you and I should have made that clear since it was your post I was replying to when I made it. The comment was directed to the people who seemed so judgmental and downright rude in their *repeated* responses to the OP, as if his decision not to attend a school says something about his desire to be a physician. It does not. And it's wrong to imply that it does just because they're more desperate for that acceptance letter than he is.
 
LifetimeDoc said:
So you are calling Lizzy ignorant? She's a confirmed adcom on SDN and that's what she said! But, I do understand that every adcom is different so some may blacklist and some may not.
Click to expand...

Actually, that isn't what Lizzy said. What she said was that she wouldn't have access to information that someone turned down a prior acceptance, but if that information came to light, then she would ask the applicant about it because it might call into question his desire to attend medical school. She never said she'd just assume the person wasn't motivated enough to become a physician. There's a big difference.
 
MedStudentWanna said:
Actually, that isn't what Lizzy said. What she said was that she wouldn't have access to information that someone turned down a prior acceptance, but if that information came to light, then she would ask the applicant about it because it might call into question his desire to attend medical school. She never said she'd just assume the person wasn't motivated enough to become a physician. There's a big difference.
Click to expand...

Attend Medical School
Become a Physician

You have to attend medical school to become a physician.
Attending medical school almost always leads you to becoming a physician.

Mmmm...no connection?
 
LifetimeDoc said:
Attend Medical School
Become a Physician

You have to attend medical school to become a physician.
Attending medical school almost always leads you to becoming a physician.

Mmmm...no connection?
Click to expand...

Umm, it was the level of assumption I was disputing. Lizzy said that she would ASK a potential applicant about this, which means that she wouldn't assume they're not motivated to become a physician. Assuming the person had a reason she found reasonable, then I would think she wouldn't discriminate against him.
 
Here are some comments from another adcom--REL. Read the first quote, but be sure to note that I followed up with a request for clarification, which is provided in the second quote.

REL said:
Now to the question that you ask. To decline an acceptance to reenter the pool the following year. If you do this, be ready to answer why. It is risky unless you are a stronger applicant, but it isnt a black-ball by any means. Med schools will talk to other med schools to find out why, so the applicant should be ready to explain their rationale. Each year med schools get to see where their applicants have been accepted sometime in early March so it wont be a secret. With MCAT scores spiking upward, stronger GPA's, and applicants who have done well to represent their motivations for medicine--as well as an expanding application pool (ours has increased 50% in only two years!!)--an acceptance this year may not mean one next year. Competition is getting very stiff.
Click to expand...

I then asked for clarification as follows.

I know that schools will find out this year which other schools have accepted you this year, but will they know about acceptances from past years? Will schools next year still know about turned-down acceptances from this year?

Here is REL's answer.

REL said:
The answer is "probably yes." I know we keep track of everyone who applied and where they were accepted in past years and I dont believe that we are very unique. We had an applicant last year that we accepted and then declined with no other choices who felt that she just wasnt ready and withdrew. At that time she told me that she wanted to test the waters for more opportunities this year. She didnt reapply to us so I guess that she felt that she simply didnt feel there was a fit. I received a call from a program this year asking about that applicant because she had been accepted there and they knew that she had been accepted here an declined. I will assume two things--the other school kept track like we do, and the applicant hopefully provided this information in her application or possibly in some other way (interview, followup letter). There arent many secrets so it's best to be forthcoming--if an applicant withholds information or works in an unethical manner, that is when schools get leery and are likely to shy away from interviewing or accepting.
Click to expand...

This information conflicts with LizzyM's account. We are left uncertain, and thus we should be cautious. Unless you really feel that your application will be significantly better in content, style and/or timing the following year, it seems like too great a risk in my opinion. With increasing numbers of strong candidates applying each year, it may be too much of a risk regardless. In any event, if you decide to turn down an acceptance and try again the following year, be sure to have a good explanation for doing so, just in case it does come up. I suspect that the nature of the school's neighborhood would not be considered a very good reason by many adcoms.

We are still awaiting a response from Adcom2 on his/her stickied thread...
 
LifetimeDoc said:
So you are calling LizzyM ignorant? :eek: :rolleyes: :D :laugh: She's a confirmed adcom on SDN and that's what she said! But, I do understand that every adcom is different so some may blacklist and some may not.
Click to expand...

I thought she said that the only way they would know is if the student openly admitted it - otherwise, they won't know! Right?
 
Chulito said:
This information conflicts with LizzyM's account. We are left uncertain, and thus we should be cautious. Unless you really feel that your application will be significantly better in content, style and/or timing the following year, it seems like too great a risk in my opinion. With increasing numbers of strong candidates applying each year, it may be too much of a risk regardless. In any event, if you decide to turn down an acceptance and try again the following year, be sure to have a good explanation for doing so, just in case it does come up. I suspect that the nature of the school's neighborhood would not be considered a very good reason by many adcoms.

We are still awaiting a response from Adcom2 on his/her stickied thread...
Click to expand...

Wow - Thanks for all your hard work in trying to track down a solid answer.
 
Yikes - schools find out where you hold acceptances in march???? I thought it wasn't unti May 15???
 
xylem29 said:
Yikes - schools find out where you hold acceptances in march???? I thought it wasn't unti May 15???
Click to expand...


That's what I had thought as well. I've recently asked for clarification about this issue on the ADCOM: SEMI-SOLICITED ADVICE thread, in fact in the same post in which I asked about turned-down acceptances. We'll see what Adcom2 has to say.
 
Well this thread has turned into a hot topic! Well I am glad people are finding the question interesting. At first, I was seeking advice, but now we are starting to really ask... is it worth it to attend a school you didn't find that appealing? Are you capable of reapplying without falling subject to a blackballed status if you declined that acceptance? And the age old question... does it really matter where you go to school? If you do well, you'll get a good residency anyways?

Ok, well obviously it is situational when it comes to attending a school you didn't find appealing... Things such as proximity to family, friends, finances, and your own personality have to be evaluated. IMHO, passing generalized judgements just won't work for such a complex decision.

Now, the knowledge that an adcom team would know of your declining an acceptance is very interesting. I think this also has to enter the decision and I also am waiting for clarification from the adcom members.

So, now to the age old question of does it really matter... YES it matters. Give me a break. Life is half who you know and half what you know. It may not be as important as undergrad, but it definitely does matter. Now, exceptional board scores (245+) will write a ticket too, but in reality people don't always achieve this.

Okay, so since I am the OP I should also readdress my current situation since people have dug trenches and are throwing gernades at each other over what I should do lol :laugh: :laugh: Yes, I was accepted to Temple. I am not sure if I want to attend. Now, this situation was hypothetical and premature (not immature as I put in a previous post haha, good catch) since I still have other schools where I have interviewed at that I have heard no decision and I was waitlisted at another. So we will see how things pan out. Thanks to everyone who has written on the topic. I hope other SDNers who find themselves in a similar situation can relate and maybe extrapolate some advice from this thread (well since it has been viewed over 5,300 times, I would say we all already have...
 
gsmithers68 said:
So, now to the age old question of does it really matter... YES it matters. Give me a break. Life is half who you know and half what you know. It may not be as important as undergrad, but it definitely does matter. Now, exceptional board scores (245+) will write a ticket too, but in reality people don't always achieve this.
Click to expand...

What?!? How, specifically, is this relevant to med school education?
 
gsmithers68 said:
So we will see how things pan out. Thanks to everyone who has written on the topic. I hope other SDNers who find themselves in a similar situation can relate and maybe extrapolate some advice from this thread (well since it has been viewed over 5,300 times, I would say we all already have...
Click to expand...

So how have things panned out? Are you reapplying next year? Did you withdraw?
 
I realize this is way after the fact, but I guess my 2 cents might be helpful to someone reading the thread after-the-fact.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Interviews are for both the school and the applicant. If you interview, and you do not like the school, then it is JUST FINE (whoa!!) to turn down the acceptance!


You are asked if you ever MATRICULATED at any school. Getting accepted is not matriculating. Attending orientation, going to first day of class, and having loan money submitted in your name is matriculation.

The pressure is on you to determine from the interview if you're going to continue pursuing a seat at that school. If you're not, then a simple letter of "i've chosen to pursue another opportunity" is respectable, mature, and in no way detrimental to you. It makes everyone's life easier.

AdComs at one school are only concerned with whether or not you get in to THEIR school, not whether or not you decline other schools. They may wish to compare notes on you if they're having a tough decision, but just because you thought _______(school)_____ isn't a good fit for you post-interview, you shouldn't get blasted.

If you should turn the school down in the end, the only thing you've lost is your deposit. With that being said, you should never apply to that school again, since you've already turned down acceptance and they wont take you seriously.
------------------------------------------------------------


How did things pan out ?
 
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