Rush vs. UIC - help!

DrAddie · Apr 10, 2007

Hello there,

Is anybody out there also trying to decide between Rush and UIC-Chicago? I am - and I would appreciate ANY and ALL input into this very difficult decision. Here are the issues:

1. Tuition - I will receive in-state rates at UIC, so tuition savings will be ~70-90k if I go for UIC.
2. Location - right across the street from one another, so no big deal!
3. Education Quality - I have heard that overall, the two schools are basically up to par, but some praise UIC's "better" clinical exposure and Rush's "nicer" pre-clinical experience, with more support and committed professors.
4. Health Insurance - not a HUGE dealbreaker, but much less expensive and more comprehensive at UIC.

I know I cannot go wrong here, but the money vs. the quality is a tough pick, because there doesn't seem to be a huge difference in quality between the schools other than the "warm & fuzzies" you get at Rush and how generally happy people seem to be there. I did notice that people were sublimely happy to be there -- my interviewers included. In my case, though, I will kind of be "come & go" student, as I will be married and spendign quite a bit of time at home with my family, so I don't even know that I would benefit so much from the community aspect at Rush. That said, I have been told that it is good to go with your "gut," but my gut is also telling me to save $80k if my education will be just as good in the end! I do want to make sure that I receive the highest quality education available to me, and part of that might require having that "support system" that I know Rush claims to provide for its students... (hopefully it's better than the support they give admitted students.)

To add insult to injury, the second look visits are on the same day, but Rush planned theirs one month later than UIC (or at least that's when we were notified), gave us no schedule of events, no instructions, and jsut an "EVITE." Meanwhile, UIC has been much mroe organized during the whole process and sent a schedule with isntructions, a save-the-date months ago, etc. Therefore, I am not witnessing this "public school bureaucracy" problem with UIC in the application phase. Their admissions department has been prompt and courteous, you can always reach them by phone in need be, whereas Rush is MIA and never even answers emails. So, I am just not seeing what I expected to see. I feel that UIC, for their organization and courtesy, deserves my attendance at the second look visit, and even beyond (???). Anywho, I am tired of bouncing these things off myself, so any and all help that anybody could provide would be more than appreciated!!

DrAddie · Apr 10, 2007

OH - and I like the idea of being able to park in the Rush garages which are covered and you cross the pedway into the school..doesn't look like an option at UIC.. obviously not a HUGE deal, but they say it is the day to day that matters!!

But the orientation week at UIC seems like it is very well planned with many events in the city as well as a boat cruise, etc.! So it does look like the student and faculty care! What am I missing here??

Robizzle · Apr 10, 2007

You sound like you want UIC.

DrAddie · Apr 10, 2007

Thanks for the reply. I know it seems that way - but I am just unsure of how to go forward with this - especially since what you see now might not be what you see later as far as the school goes. Do you guys think it's fair to say that how you are treated in the application process is a fair way to tell how you will be treated by the school as a medical student?

Catalystik · Apr 10, 2007

DrAddie said:
Do you guys think it's fair to say that how you are treated in the application process is a fair way to tell how you will be treated by the school as a medical student?

The programs are run by unrelated offices, so I don't think you can judge future happiness/unhappiness as a student by how you were treated in the application process. It's best to talk to present med students to understand how your day-to-day life would be next year.

But, is it worth $80,000 to have better parking and friendlier support staff for the next four years?

chitown82 · Apr 10, 2007

Many of us had to make similar decisions. I chose UIC while someone else may have picked Rush. I love it so far at UIC and I think the school is making huge headway to break into the league of the top 50 medical schools. Four or five years ago, UIC wasn't in the top 70 and this year we are at 56 or so (NW and UofC being the only other IL schools ranked higher). I wouldn't be surprised if UIC went up 5-10 spots before I graduated (I'm an M2). In terms of research, we already are in the Top 50.

We hired a new Dean of Students this past year. She is awesome. Perhaps the best thing that has happened to UIC in a long time. She makes it her number one priority to make students happy and since she's been here, our Student Lounge has been revamped and the lecture halls seats are set to be replaced soon (these things were on the "to do" list for years before she came). Our board scores are going up as well - our most recent average is around 221 (5-6 points higher than a few years ago). Our curriculum has been re-orgainzed so that it is alligned (for instance, you do cardio path, pathophys, and pharm all simultaneously).

Clinically, you can't beat UIC. As M2s, we are in the hospital for 6 full weeks (split up into 1, 2, and 3 week sessions where we are practice H&Ps, learn how to give presentations, write notes, etc) in addition to weekly Clinical Medicine classes plus around 15 physical exam workshops. I've heard time and again from residents and physicians that UIC students are some of the best 3rd and 4th year students in Chicago.

UIC has a solid reputation around the country and our students go everywhere for residency...just look at our match lists. The school is getting better each year and the old argument that UIC students are unhappy is no longer the case.

Check out http://www.uic.edu/depts/mcam/ and download the COM Strategic Plan - quite impressive!

TheRealDrDorian · Apr 19, 2007

A post in here helped me make my decision. Check it out.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=251471

tdd340 · Apr 19, 2007

TheRealDrDorian said:
A post in here helped me make my decision. Check it out.

Well don't leave us hanging...which post and what was your decision?

TheRealDrDorian · Apr 19, 2007

tdd340 said:
Well don't leave us hanging...which post and what was your decision?

Well, I currently stand accepted at Rush, and am waiting for an interview at UIC. In all honesty, and I apologize if this statement sounds arrogant, but I believe I haven't (and probably will not) earn an interview with UIC this application cycle as I:
a) Took the August MCAT (troubles of late applicant)
b) Have not taken a course to fulfill the behavioral science requirement (I was told be staff that it was ok because I planned on taking 2 psychology courses this coming summer, so my application would be complete before matriculation)
c) Other reasons I don't know of

I can understandably see why reason b above is a dilemma of my application, as other students have finished this requirement and I have not (for good reasons I will not dwell into).

That being said, I would lean towards Rush regardless mainly because:
a) The overall community gives me a good vibe.
b) The academic programs are relatively identical (same for hospitals; RUMC really impressed me too).
c) I am interested in possibly pursuing neurology (RUMC 8th in the nation)/ neuroradiology/radiology, and I feel Rush would be the best place for me to integrate my specific background into my future as a medical professional.

As most people have said, the biggest drawback is private vs. public in-state tuition.

Hope this helped, and feel free to message me any specifics. Sorry for the long post!

Jccripe · Apr 19, 2007

UIC, if Rush is anything like there admisssions staff this year, then the school will be so disorganized you wont be able to think.

genesis09 · Apr 19, 2007

DrAddie said:
OH - and I like the idea of being able to park in the Rush garages which are covered and you cross the pedway into the school..doesn't look like an option at UIC.. obviously not a HUGE deal, but they say it is the day to day that matters!!

There are covered garages at UIC, Wood st. and Paulina St. However, you have to walk to Medicine. The closest garage to COM is actually the County lot. The closest UIC lot to COM is the Wood St.

bigdog8829 · Apr 19, 2007

Health Insurance - not a HUGE dealbreaker, but much less expensive and more comprehensive at UIC

you can purchase your own private ins no matter where u go to school. you just need to show that you have it. at least thats what i think.

TheRealDrDorian · Apr 20, 2007

Jccripe said:
UIC, if Rush is anything like there admisssions staff this year, then the school will be so disorganized you wont be able to think.

My friend just had a terrible experience at UIC. They went for the interview yesterday and:
a) The day started 45 minutes late.
b) The head dean was supposed to give a power point presentation, but he was not in town, so an assistant gave the presentation, not looking at the slides at all, and basically said "read this" repeatedly.
c) The second interviewer left at the beginning of the interview and had my friend play her computer for the entire time, then asked my friend to come back at 5, to which my friend had to wait until 5:40 (the day was supposed to end at 4ish)
d) Had a nice tour of the UIC facilities, after being told the Chicago campus is full and no information was really known about the other sites.

My friend actually said based on the actual interview / information days, Rush was a ton better than UIC...something to think about...

DrAddie · Apr 20, 2007

TheRealDrDorian said:
My friend just had a terrible experience at UIC. They went for the interview yesterday and:
a) The day started 45 minutes late.
b) The head dean was supposed to give a power point presentation, but he was not in town, so an assistant gave the presentation, not looking at the slides at all, and basically said "read this" repeatedly.
c) The second interviewer left at the beginning of the interview and had my friend play her computer for the entire time, then asked my friend to come back at 5, to which my friend had to wait until 5:40 (the day was supposed to end at 4ish)
d) Had a nice tour of the UIC facilities, after being told the Chicago campus is full and no information was really known about the other sites.

My friend actually said based on the actual interview / information days, Rush was a ton better than UIC...something to think about...

Hey there! Thanks for the input. I actually just got back from the UIC second look visit today and have my own perspective on the matter. I have chosen to attend UIC and am very happy with my decision. Here are a few clenchers...

1. The UIC second look weekend was very well structured and save-the-date emails were sent around March 1. Official letters of invitation were sent (hand-signed) with itineraries. The whole day went off without a glitch, and everyone was amazing. I had even requested an updated financial aid award statement and they told me it would be available for me on the visit day. It was! And everything was great. UIC is a public school, that is true, but they are doing their absolute best. Change has occurred over htep ast few years and will continue to into the future. They have a great new dean of students and things look very promising. The students actually do seem happy, and they are getting a great education and AMAZING clinical experience with about seven other rotation sites other than UIC hospital around the community, and of course plenty of time in fourth year for away rotations. Also, you receive patient contact beginning in the first month of class.

2. Rush sent an e-vite for the second look weekend with no itinerary. That's ok, I guess. But, it was sent two weeks before the visit. Ok, again. BUT it just so (suspiciously) happened to be on the same date AND time as the UIC visit, which had been planned months in advance! What gives? I emailed Rush to get some sort of explanation and itinerary so I could maybe split my time, but I could not get through to anyone and my email was answered a few days later and no additional information was given. Thus, I attended UIC's second look and was very pleased. Did anybody attend Rush's visit today? I'd be interested to know how it went/what you learned/how organized it was.

3. Nobody ever answers the phone at Rush, even for admitted students. At UIC, I've been able to reach someone each and every time I've called. Period.

4. Tuition -- when the two schools are practically equivalent as far as academic reputation as these two are, one needs to make a lifestyle choice. Basically, which school will allow you more flexibility and freedom to live your life normally after medical school, and not be bogged down with 80k+ more dollars of debt than you would otherwise? This advice I received from an UIC alum with friends who also attended Rush (and got very good educations as well, she added). Personally, I feel that I will receive just as good an education and will owe less money at the end of it all, and that makes me very happy. I want to get on with my life and live comfortably once I am done with medical school.

5. The diversity at UIC is astounding, and I have heard that the students help each other understand about one another's cultures. They really do learn from each other. Also, there IS support available for M1s, and it comes in the form of help organized by M2 students each year such as study sessions and the like. I heard it is really great and very well organized.

6. I had a very pleasant interview day when I went - granted it was back in the fall. I also enjoyed Rush's interview day. Everyone was great and who knows, maybe I'll end up there for Residency because it does seem like a great community, but by then they will be paying me, not vice versa.

Basically, I could not see the $80k benefit of Rush over UIC, but that is my personal decision. I am sure it is an individual choice that people taylor to their own preferences in life.

TheRealDrDorian · Apr 20, 2007

DrAddie said:
Hey there! Thanks for the input. I actually just got back from the UIC second look visit today and have my own perspective on the matter. I have chosen to attend UIC and am very happy with my decision. Here are a few clenchers...

1. The UIC second look weekend was very well structured and save-the-date emails were sent around March 1. Official letters of invitation were sent (hand-signed) with itineraries. The whole day went off without a glitch, and everyone was amazing. I had even requested an updated financial aid award statement and they told me it would be available for me on the visit day. It was! And everything was great. UIC is a public school, that is true, but they are doing their absolute best. Change has occurred over htep ast few years and will continue to into the future. They have a great new dean of students and things look very promising. The students actually do seem happy, and they are getting a great education and AMAZING clinical experience with about seven other rotation sites other than UIC hospital around the community, and of course plenty of time in fourth year for away rotations. Also, you receive patient contact beginning in the first month of class.

2. Rush sent an e-vite for the second look weekend with no itinerary. That's ok, I guess. But, it was sent two weeks before the visit. Ok, again. BUT it just so (suspiciously) happened to be on the same date AND time as the UIC visit, which had been planned months in advance! What gives? I emailed Rush to get some sort of explanation and itinerary so I could maybe split my time, but I could not get through to anyone and my email was answered a few days later and no additional information was given. Thus, I attended UIC's second look and was very pleased. Did anybody attend Rush's visit today? I'd be interested to know how it went/what you learned/how organized it was.

3. Nobody ever answers the phone at Rush, even for admitted students. At UIC, I've been able to reach someone each and every time I've called. Period.

4. Tuition -- when the two schools are practically equivalent as far as academic reputation as these two are, one needs to make a lifestyle choice. Basically, which school will allow you more flexibility and freedom to live your life normally after medical school, and not be bogged down with 80k+ more dollars of debt than you would otherwise? This advice I received from an UIC alum with friends who also attended Rush (and got very good educations as well, she added). Personally, I feel that I will receive just as good an education and will owe less money at the end of it all, and that makes me very happy. I want to get on with my life and live comfortably once I am done with medical school.

5. The diversity at UIC is astounding, and I have heard that the students help each other understand about one another's cultures. They really do learn from each other. Also, there IS support available for M1s, and it comes in the form of help organized by M2 students each year such as study sessions and the like. I heard it is really great and very well organized.

6. I had a very pleasant interview day when I went - granted it was back in the fall. I also enjoyed Rush's interview day. Everyone was great and who knows, maybe I'll end up there for Residency because it does seem like a great community, but by then they will be paying me, not vice versa.

Basically, I could not see the $80k benefit of Rush over UIC, but that is my personal decision. I am sure it is an individual choice that people taylor to their own preferences in life.

Great post Dr. Addie. Best of luck at UIC, and since we'll be practically neighbors, we should have friendly Rush vs. UIC study sessions :laugh:

.

Random aside. This is what I love about SDN, people voicing their views in a friendly manner, not bashing other peoples thoughts (as you could have on my UIC perspective). Go you!

Happy2BOB · Apr 20, 2007

DrAddie said:
Hey there! Thanks for the input. I actually just got back from the UIC second look visit today and have my own perspective on the matter. I have chosen to attend UIC and am very happy with my decision.

Welcome to UIC Dr. Addie! I'm an M4, graduating in 3 short weeks, and have been very happy with my time at UIC.....especially the clinical years. I don't think anyone feels completely confident about starting intern year, but I definitely feel my medical education has prepared me well. Good luck with starting this new adventure & feel free to PM me with any questions!

DrAddie · Apr 21, 2007

Dr. D,

Thanks! I am glad you found my post appropriate & tasteful. That is what I aim for.

Of course everyone is entitled to their own opinions and we will all have different ones and different ways to base our decisions on medical school. I definitely think that being able to voice those and throw things around is what makes SDN great. Bottom line -- we've all worked so hard to get here and we did it! From this point on, we can't go wrong! Especially with getting to live in one of the greatest cities in the US for the next 4+ years, eh? Also, I have been following along w/your posts in the past few months and I want to congratulate you on your acceptance to Rush - I am sure it was worth the long wait! I am really glad they offered acceptances until the very end.

OB,
I will definitely PM you with questions about UIC! It's great to have someone to bounce some things off of. Once it all settles in, I'll get some of my questions together and send away. Thanks! Congrats on finishing! I hope the match went well for you.

nec7 · Mar 15, 2008

Hi, I'm making the same decision this year. I'm leaning towards UIC for the tuition reason, but I've been placed on the urbana-rockford track =(

Is location enough of a reason to consider Rush more? I truly love Chicago (been here all my life) and the city-life. I loved Rush and the people I met there.. but the tuition is really killer..

I'd appreciate any input. THanks!

Phoenix. · Mar 15, 2008

nec7 said:
Hi, I'm making the same decision this year. I'm leaning towards UIC for the tuition reason, but I've been placed on the urbana-rockford track =(

Is location enough of a reason to consider Rush more? I truly love Chicago (been here all my life) and the city-life. I loved Rush and the people I met there.. but the tuition is really killer..

I'd appreciate any input. THanks!

I've posted this many times elsewhere on UIC, so I'm just going to sum it up here. Basically, when you add regular tuition, summer tuition(!), and fees for UIC, it comes to 30k a year, not 25k. I don't recall off-hand what Rush tuition & fees are (I think their tuition is in the 42k range) so I can't give you the difference, but it's good to keep in mind if tuition is your primary concern here.

It sounds like you loved Rush and the location, so I think you should go with your gut. I live in downtown Chicago too, and if I had the option between Rush and UIC in Urbana-Rockford, I'd choose Rush in a heartbeat. The ~15k/year difference to me would be worth it. But that's me, and I haven't even interviewed at Rush, so what do I know? For what it's worth, I know people who went to Rush, and they all really enjoyed it.

nu2004 · Mar 15, 2008

class size is a big factor in my mind.

i too was making this comparison at one point. if you are willing to overlook the difference in cost, i think Rush is a better bet. i liked the facilities more. i hadn't heard that UIC kids get better clinical rotations...

buggati · Mar 20, 2008

I got into urbana/peoria and I know that the class size will be much smaller compared to uic-chicago, also its better for rotations because we are not competing with other med students in the same area

shiftingmirage · Mar 20, 2008

I've been checking out apartments around Rush/UIC, does anyone know if med students get a UPass?

kma83 · Mar 21, 2008

I wanted to mention a few points that haven't been discussed.
first, i know plenty of people who have gone to both UIC (chicago track) and Rush and they all loved their experience, so you can't go wrong either way.
(I am only speaking of UIC chicago track in this post, i dont know much about their other tracks)

The one advantage Rush seems to have over UIC is that their hospital is better ranked in specialties compared to the University of Illinois hospitals. Also, since they are private they may be more responsive towards students (yet ppl's experience in this forum would say otherwise).

UIC in my opinion has many of advantages over Rush. One, it is an older medical school with a much larger Alumni pool than Rush, which can be very important when looking for positions post-residency (and even when applying for residency; such as having a residency director who went through your program). Two, UIC students are given exceptional clinical experience, they are given greater autonomy over patients as compared to some other schools (from what i've heard, Rush included, though i can't be certain). In addition, UIC is slightly less expensive but gives alot better aid than Rush (look at the MSAR). UIC actually gives the most aid per student of all the medical schools in chicago behind Pritzker.
Third, UIC-COM receives much more research funding than Rush; very important for students who want to dabble in research during school.
Lastly, and this is an important point in my mind, is that Rush is a stand alone school, it does not have a proper University. I remember hearing a dean from a prestigious medical school (i think it was Johns Hopkins) say that 90% of medical schools will give you the same clinical training. So what are these 'other' 10%? It seems these are medical schools that do not have a full fledged university and (more importantly) those schools that do not have their own teaching hospital. Of course, there are some really exceptional schools that fall into this category such as Mt. Sinai and Mayo, so I don't know how much of a difference it makes. But on an interdisciplinary level, I could see the benefit of being attached to a full university. just something to keep in mind...
In the end of course, I don't know how much any of this will matter, so if you are deciding between the two, you can't make a 'wrong' decision.

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