ADCOMS: Semi-Solicited Advice [Part II]

Applying to Med School? Get In Or Your Money Back
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Wozzeck said:
So what do you suggest if my plan won't help? please note i'm actually getting an M.A. in biology, and this isn't a true special masters
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You mentioned having a 3.2 gpa in undergrad from WashU. Now you want to get a M.A. in biology from WashU and get into any school as a Missouri resident. If you look at mdapplicants.com you'll see that there is about 1 successful applicant per year with a gpa <3.3 and MCAT >29 who gets into med school from WashU (and without an M.A.) so there is some precedent.

A 4.0 in grad school is equal to a 3.6 (10% discount) as an undergrad (call it grad school grade inflation). So, maybe a good showing in an M.A. program would improve your application and show that you have the academic chops to do well in med school. If you are really interested in the educational and research opportunities afforded to you by the M.A. program then go for it but not because it is going to help you get into medical school.
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hi lizzy,

i'm a bit confused as to the rationale behind assuming that grad school grades are inflated. while the grad school environment generally lacks the cutthroat pre-med environment of undergrad science courses, the material is inherently more advanced. i guess my experience with grad school courses has led me to think that they're probably more even rigorous than the equivalent med school courses (at least my texas state school). we take some our classes (biochem, physiology, genetics to name a few) for the phd and masters programs together with the med students...same lectures, same material. however, the med students get to take a multiple choice exam and the grad students take part of that same exam, but then have to answer essays that involve designing experiments and analyzing data. basically we learn the material and then have to apply it, rather than just be able to regurgitate it.

though i have no doubt that med school is challenging especially when it involves juggling 4-5 classes at a time, we take 3 and spend 5 hours a day in lab. i'm sure that my school's system is probably unique in its rigor (or least as i perceive it) and i definitely don't mean to rant or complain. i'm just trying to understand how the assumption came about.

thanks!
 
i guess i should add that i'm asking as someone who is planning to apply this season and not as a bitter grad student :)
 
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Thanks for your honesty. To be true, it's certainly not where I want to be but it is my best option for fulfilling my long term goals. I feel that I must demonstrate a capability in upper level science courses, otherwise I'm going nowhere. Is there any other option I should consider?

LizzyM said:
You mentioned having a 3.2 gpa in undergrad from WashU. Now you want to get a M.A. in biology from WashU and get into any school as a Missouri resident. If you look at mdapplicants.com you'll see that there is about 1 successful applicant per year with a gpa <3.3 and MCAT >29 who gets into med school from WashU (and without an M.A.) so there is some precedent.

A 4.0 in grad school is equal to a 3.6 (10% discount) as an undergrad (call it grad school grade inflation). So, maybe a good showing in an M.A. program would improve your application and show that you have the academic chops to do well in med school. If you are really interested in the educational and research opportunities afforded to you by the M.A. program then go for it but not because it is going to help you get into medical school.
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mtd0130 said:
hi lizzy,

i'm a bit confused as to the rationale behind assuming that grad school grades are inflated. <snip> i definitely don't mean to rant or complain. i'm just trying to understand how the assumption came about.

thanks!
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Because >95% of all graduate school grades are B or higher. That is not the case in undergrad.
 
I need advice on how to get accepted off the waitlist.
 
Alright, so I'm a 3rd planning to graduate next semester (a semester earlier than usual).

I have a decent GPA (~3.7) and hopefully decent MCAT scores. One problem is, I have a severe lack of activities compared to most people. I guess the only significant thing I have done is work at the school clinic for 1.5 yrs. Though I don't want to be making any excuses, it's been really hard for me to get any research positions at all, though I've been applying to programs since 2nd year.

Having said that, I was wondering what would be a good way to spend this coming summer?

(i.e., research vs. volunteering, what to do in case of no open research positions, etc.)

Or else, are there any other suggestions to help with admissions? Not sure about doing MA programs, since my GPA is okay. I'm just really scared especially considering the fact that many med school acceptance rates are so low. 5%?!

Any response is GREATLY appreciated!
 
Hi everyone.
I'm finishing my third year at a CSU, and my GPA is okay, not good ~3.3. I haven't taken my MCAT yet, but.... would I be more successful spending an extra year to raise my undergraduate GPA (5th year senior)...or would an SMP be a better option?
 
tartrate said:
Alright, so I'm a 3rd planning to graduate next semester (a semester earlier than usual).

I have a decent GPA (~3.7) and hopefully decent MCAT scores. One problem is, I have a severe lack of activities compared to most people. I guess the only significant thing I have done is work at the school clinic for 1.5 yrs. Though I don't want to be making any excuses, it's been really hard for me to get any research positions at all, though I've been applying to programs since 2nd year.

Having said that, I was wondering what would be a good way to spend this coming summer?

(i.e., research vs. volunteering, what to do in case of no open research positions, etc.)

Or else, are there any other suggestions to help with admissions? Not sure about doing MA programs, since my GPA is okay. I'm just really scared especially considering the fact that many med school acceptance rates are so low. 5%?!

Any response is GREATLY appreciated!
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#1. School acceptance rates are low because there are so many applicants to each school. The important number to understand is that 50% of the people who apply get in somewhere. Apply broadly (12 or more schools including some "safety" schools), apply early (have the AMCAS ready to go in June, get your transcripts sent early, have your LORs ready to send, crank out the supplementals).
#2. Your gpa is too good for you to need a SMP.
#3. 18 mos of volunteer work is good. Get a job this summer. If you are interested in top tier research schools then you should do research this summer -- otherwise, get any job (adcoms seem to love blue collar work and service work (like waitressing -- it gives you a look at life outside of your comfort zone). Don't overlook non-medical, non-academic stuff you might have done over the last 3 years: sports/athletics, journalism or other writing, performing arts (even if you don't perform but just do it for yourself -- like keeping up piano or guitar playing), studio arts, crafts, hobbies, (I even know a guy admitted this year whose hobby is repairing motorcycles) . Adding stuff like this to your "experience" section is fine and shows that you are "well rounded"
 
Hi Lizzy,

I graduated last May with a BS in biochem and a BA in English. During junior and senior year I had a hard time choosing between medical school and law school. I took the august 2005 mcat with no preparation and scored poorly (7 PS, 8 VR, 9BS, Q). I did well on the lsat though, and was accepted to several top law schools. I began law school in the fall (at a top ranked school), but quickly regretted the decision to attend from the beginning. I left law school because I know now that i really, truly want to go to medical school. I am currently studying for the mcat (scheduled for june) and plan apply to medical school beginning in may.

questions:
grades: my gpa for the first 7 semesters of college is high (8.83 (3.7ish BCPM) from Rice), but after i was admitted to law schools, I had a bad case of senioritis and made a 2.8 my last semester, causing my total gpa to drop to 3.73 (3.6 BCPM). Will my dismal last semester have a major impact and ruin my chances for higher ranked schools, or will screeners/ADCOMs understand a poor last semester in light of the circumstances?

grad school grades: do I have to report the grades I made in law school on my AMCAS? I did about average for my one semester in law school, but I would rather not report these

MCAT: is my 24 from two years ago (a time when I was really just sitting for the exam to appease my parents, because they had paid for it) going to kill me? I anticipate doing substantially better on the mcats in june (at least 30+, hopefully 35+)

Time Off: I left law school in late January, at the beginning of this current semester. Will it look bad that I needed a few months (Feb/March) to travel/soul search before diving right into research and volunteering? I would rather just concentrate on my MCAT studying until the test in June ...will it look like I had time off and did nothing, or do ADCOMs understand a chunk of time needed for MCAT prep?
 
Trxgr6 said:
.... I had a bad case of senioritis and made a 2.8 my last semester, causing my total gpa to drop to 3.73 (3.6 BCPM). Will my dismal last semester have a major impact and ruin my chances for higher ranked schools, or will screeners/ADCOMs understand a poor last semester in light of the circumstances?
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They might show mercy, if they like the rest of your application.

grad school grades: do I have to report the grades I made in law school on my AMCAS? I did about average for my one semester in law school, but I would rather not report these
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You MUST report those grades.

MCAT: is my 24 from two years ago (a time when I was really just sitting for the exam to appease my parents, because they had paid for it) going to kill me? I anticipate doing substantially better on the mcats in june (at least 30+, hopefully 35+)
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What's the question. If you do really well this time, an adcom may chalk it up to not wanting to do well the first time around do to lack of motivation.

Time Off: I left law school in late January, at the beginning of this current semester. Will it look bad that I needed a few months (Feb/March) to travel/soul search before diving right into research and volunteering? I would rather just concentrate on my MCAT studying until the test in June ...will it look like I had time off and did nothing, or do ADCOMs understand a chunk of time needed for MCAT prep?
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You'd better address this head on in your personal statement. Any gap out of school/work should be addressed. All work and no play is going to make you look like a pretty dull guy. So you traveled in Feb/March. That goes under the experience section of the AMCAS. Take 4 hours out of every week of MCAT studying and do something for someone else (volunteer service work anywhere with anyone... serve meals once a week in a soup kitchen, tutor a junior high or high school student or teach an adult literacy class, or do something in a nursing home, hospice or something...) This too goes on your AMCAS and shows that you were doing something to write home about in the time leading up to your application ("to the present" keep it up right through the interview season, it gives you something to talk about). Get to know the people you serve in your volunteer job - it shows your empathy for patients (even if they aren't patients).
 
yuba said:
Hi everyone.
I'm finishing my third year at a CSU, and my GPA is okay, not good ~3.3. I haven't taken my MCAT yet, but.... would I be more successful spending an extra year to raise my undergraduate GPA (5th year senior)...or would an SMP be a better option?
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This is a tough question. SMPs aren't very impressive (not to me anyway, perhaps some schools / adcoms like them), If you can pull to a 3.5 or 3.6 and manage 32 or better on the MCAT you will be golden even if undergrad winds up being the 5 year plan.
 
Thank you so much for your help Lizzy!

Will my law school grades negatively affect my application? I had no idea that grad school grades in a non-related field had to be reported. I made median grades at a very competitive and highly ranked law school, but I am not sure that a med school ADCOM will know how to evaluate these. :( Will they understand that I simply made the wrong choice and knew it right away?
 
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After I graduate, would it help to take 2 science courses during the summer at my home university? It would be two 4 unit courses and it'd improve my BCPM from a terrible 3.27 to a less terrible 3.31.

The problem is that the summer session would run until Aug 3 and I'd be dealing with secondaries during school, which could impact either my summer grades or the quality of my secondaries.

I'm also lining up a clinical research internship for my gap year and won't start until July at the earliest. Is there any way to update schools with a LOR from my new PI later in the application cycle after secondaries have been submitted and the committee letter along with it?

Thanks in advance.
 
Should i spend this summer working @ my old job as a physical therapy aide or use this time to stay @ college and get my EMT-B? This would allow me to get some more experience in while at college bc the PT job is too far away to do while in school. I already do the PT job on holidays. Would working as a PT aide in the summer and then getting the EMT-B in the fall be more impressive? Currently a sophmore. Thanks for help, I <3 YOU.
 
Hello there,

As a foreword, thank you so much for helping out SDN. I greatly appreciate your contribution towards this community.

I've completed a bachelors of nuclear engineering with a very low average around a C average with 3 failed classes. I found out through volunteering at hospitals that I wanted to pursue medicine in second year, however, I ended up finishing my engineering degree with poor results. Several issues throughout undergrad affected my performance, such as divorce of parents, friends and relatives passing away. It was hard to find motivation, let alone concentrate on school work. As a result, and miraculously, I "successfully" finished my degree. I've worked as an engineer but I don't find any interest in it.

As you may have guessed by now, I want to pursue medicine in my fullest. With everything set back, I can finally have a clear state of mind to study school to my fullest (I rarely studied during my engineering degree (major thanks to my classmates for helping me get through it)). I would just like to ask SDN if it's possible to do another 4 year undergrad and apply for medical school, given by low GPA in the past. I know that I'll have to commit myself solely to school, but I'll do anything.

Am I being unreasonable thinking I have a chance?
 
Trxgr6 said:
Thank you so much for your help Lizzy!

Will my law school grades negatively affect my application? I had no idea that grad school grades in a non-related field had to be reported. I made median grades at a very competitive and highly ranked law school, but I am not sure that a med school ADCOM will know how to evaluate these. :( Will they understand that I simply made the wrong choice and knew it right away?
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All grades beyond H.S. courses must be recorded. (Even college courses taken in H.S. must be reported.) This is an important fact for every applicant to understand.

You are correct; most adcom members won't know how to evaluate law school grades. Most likely, they'll note that you recognized that law school was not a good choice for you and leave it at that.
 
patrickd223 said:
Should i spend this summer working @ my old job as a physical therapy aide or use this time to stay @ college and get my EMT-B? This would allow me to get some more experience in while at college bc the PT job is too far away to do while in school. I already do the PT job on holidays. Would working as a PT aide in the summer and then getting the EMT-B in the fall be more impressive? Currently a sophmore. Thanks for help, I <3 YOU.
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I have never seen an adcom member who was impressed by an EMT-B. If you work for several years as a EMT-B and you write about it in a reasonable manner (not making your PS sound like a screenplay for ER), then an adcom might be impressed but frankly, EMT-B are a dime a dozen among med school applicants.

Don't get the EMT-B unless you are going to use it (volunteer or employed). A paying job is always good and shows a willingness to be productive during your school breaks.
 
ecking said:
After I graduate, would it help to take 2 science courses during the summer at my home university? It would be two 4 unit courses and it'd improve my BCPM from a terrible 3.27 to a less terrible 3.31.

The problem is that the summer session would run until Aug 3 and I'd be dealing with secondaries during school, which could impact either my summer grades or the quality of my secondaries.

I'm also lining up a clinical research internship for my gap year and won't start until July at the earliest. Is there any way to update schools with a LOR from my new PI later in the application cycle after secondaries have been submitted and the committee letter along with it?

Thanks in advance.
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Personally, I don't think that the two elective science courses will help enough to offset the hit you will take on the quality of your secondaries. That should be your first priority.

Your committee letter should be submitted along with the secondaries because without it your files are not complete. You want your files to be complete as soon as possible.

You can update your files at any time but in some instances it will be "too late" because the file may have been read and a tentative decision made (no interview). With 5000+ applicants to review at some schools, it is a job just to get through each one without going back to an application when an up-date arrives.

You need to weigh the advantage that a LOR from your new PI will have against the benefit you get from applying early. You might want to save the up-date for the interview day and/or the waitlist.
 
Tropicana83 said:
Hello there,

As a foreword, thank you so much for helping out SDN. I greatly appreciate your contribution towards this community.

I've completed a bachelors of nuclear engineering with a very low average around a C average with 3 failed classes. I found out through volunteering at hospitals that I wanted to pursue medicine in second year, however, I ended up finishing my engineering degree with poor results. Several issues throughout undergrad affected my performance, such as divorce of parents, friends and relatives passing away. It was hard to find motivation, let alone concentrate on school work. As a result, and miraculously, I "successfully" finished my degree. I've worked as an engineer but I don't find any interest in it.

As you may have guessed by now, I want to pursue medicine in my fullest. With everything set back, I can finally have a clear state of mind to study school to my fullest (I rarely studied during my engineering degree (major thanks to my classmates for helping me get through it)). I would just like to ask SDN if it's possible to do another 4 year undergrad and apply for medical school, given by low GPA in the past. I know that I'll have to commit myself solely to school, but I'll do anything.

Am I being unreasonable thinking I have a chance?
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You have a long, uphill climb. You may not need to do another undergrad degree (120 credits) but you may need to do a post-bach that covers the pre-med requirements. A good post-bach program will have advisors dedicated to post-bach students with advice on extra-curricular activities to help round out your application and tips on applying to schools that will be a good fit. (The folks on the non-traditional forum may be able to suggest good post-bach programs.)
 
Hello,

I am writing to ask about the "Disadvantaged" check box on the AMCAS application. Do schools look at this status, and if so how do they use it? I do talk about economical disadvantages in my personal statement, and I think it will be clear through the experience section that I had to contribute to my family's income before I was 18 y.o. (one of the questions if you check yes for the disadvantaged question) and that I worked through college, but I am a little hesitant to check the box. I don't want to seem like I am complaining. I actually think that working hard through school had been an advantage.

What are your thoughts about checking the box, and how schools use that information?

Thank you for your help.
 
ilovelucy said:
Hello,

I am writing to ask about the "Disadvantaged" check box on the AMCAS application. Do schools look at this status, and if so how do they use it? I do talk about economical disadvantages in my personal statement, and I think it will be clear through the experience section that I had to contribute to my family's income before I was 18 y.o. (one of the questions if you check yes for the disadvantaged question) and that I worked through college, but I am a little hesitant to check the box. I don't want to seem like I am complaining. I actually think that working hard through school had been an advantage.

What are your thoughts about checking the box, and how schools use that information?

Thank you for your help.
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From my thinking, if they didnt care, they wouldnt ask.
 
ilovelucy said:
Hello,

I am writing to ask about the "Disadvantaged" check box on the AMCAS application. Do schools look at this status, and if so how do they use it? I do talk about economical disadvantages in my personal statement, and I think it will be clear through the experience section that I had to contribute to my family's income before I was 18 y.o. (one of the questions if you check yes for the disadvantaged question) and that I worked through college, but I am a little hesitant to check the box. I don't want to seem like I am complaining. I actually think that working hard through school had been an advantage.

What are your thoughts about checking the box, and how schools use that information?

Thank you for your help.
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How schools treat this box depends, I'm sure, on the school.

Some adcom members take it into account in considering the advantages (or lack of advantages) that you had growing up. A disadvantaged student may not have had the resources to hire a tutor, take a prep-course, or do extensive volunteer work.

Some schools may believe that applicants who grew up "disadvantaged" will be more likely to serve disadvantaged populations after graduation ("going home"). Schools that value service to underserved communities may give disadvantaged applicants a little bit of an boost in the admissions process. There is also the argument that these applicants add to the diversity of the medical school class.

Some adcom members may be more mindful to take into account the amount of time spent in employment for wages during college (on the AMCAS) and that such time could not be spent in other extracurricular activities or devoted to studying.

Applicants poor enough to qualify for free school lunches, public housing, public aid, Medicaid, etc, aren't seen as complaining. If the family has a moderate to high income and the applicant is attempting to garner sympathy or a bigger financial aid package, this is the wrong strategy. For those in-between, parents highest education and current profession is often an indication of the relative SES of the family although sometimes (through disability or serious illness, for example) a family income if far less than it might be given education/professional credentials.
 
Hello, I'm a freshman, still a lot of time ahead of me. I just have a question about W's. Last semester, my first semester of school, I got off to the wrong foot when my family had an emergency and I had to move back home for a couple months and take W's in four classes. Since then, I have changed majors and really found something I enjoy, and my family is doing great. I'm doing really well, and now I will have about a 3.76 GPA (which is including Calc 1 and 2 i took as a senior in high school). Will these W's hinder me, or will adcoms understand if i tell them about my family emergency. Also, how much do I have to reveal about my family emergency without going into too much difficult detail.

Also, I have about 40 credits that I was recieved from a community college at my home when I was in high school. These all have A's associated with them. These do not count for my Undergrad GPA at my college, but will they count for Med School?

Thanks so much!
 
oh, i forgot to ask one thing! I am a CNA at a local nursing home here. Do med schools care if you work in a hospital or nursing home, or is it just good enough that I have a lot of contact with patients?
 
Dayfed said:
Hello, I'm a freshman, still a lot of time ahead of me. I just have a question about W's. Last semester, my first semester of school, I got off to the wrong foot when my family had an emergency and I had to move back home for a couple months and take W's in four classes. Since then, I have changed majors and really found something I enjoy, and my family is doing great. I'm doing really well, and now I will have about a 3.76 GPA (which is including Calc 1 and 2 i took as a senior in high school). Will these W's hinder me, or will adcoms understand if i tell them about my family emergency. Also, how much do I have to reveal about my family emergency without going into too much difficult detail.

Also, I have about 40 credits that I was recieved from a community college at my home when I was in high school. These all have A's associated with them. These do not count for my Undergrad GPA at my college, but will they count for Med School?

Thanks so much!
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If you explain things in your PS (and even better if your pre-med advisor or a professor who knows you well puts it in a LOR as well), a lost semester shouldn't hurt you.

Your CC credits do count toward your gpa.

Working in any venue as a CNA is a clinical experience. If you do work in a nursing home, try to get some exposure to hospital and/or outpatient medical settings.
 
Dear Lizzy M,

I know you get a lot of these and your responses are always appreciated. Here's my brief story... I did two years of undergrad at about 3.00 GPA I took almost exclusively GE's at that time, I had some family isssues and I really didn't feel able to apply myself. I moved out west, took a year and a half off and attended a cal state school for undergrad. I spent four years at school 2, with and graduated with institutional GPA: 3.93 overall and 3.97 BCPM. However, my overall GPA (including my first two years at school 1) is 3.57 overall and 3.87 BCPM. During senior year I applied to 3 MD/PhD programs, interviewed and rejected at one. So I entered a PhD program in chemistry. My college was a liberal arts school, so grad school was a good option to do something productive i.e get significant research experience (which I was/am interested in). Now, I am finishing my PhD thesis and will defend next month. I decided after year 2 of my grad program, I really wanted to be a physician so I started volunteering at a hospital. To date, I have 1.5 yrs clincal volunteer experience with significant patient contact. I took the august 2006 MCAT and got a 37Q. My grad GPA is 3.95. This cycle I applied to mostly top tier research schools (8 schools total). Interviewed and waitlisted at my top choice and one interview at a mid tier state school pending. DO you think my lack of success has to do with 1) undergrad GPA 2) limited clinical experience 3) applying late to too few schools 4) having a PhD in the physical sciences. I am really frustrated because everyone told me a should have no problem getting in to a top program. Also, if I do have to reapply, I was thinking of taking a position involving clinical experience, or maybe americorps, rather than bench research. I know I will likely, as a physician, do research. I am just thinking I should enhance other aspects of my application? I would truly appreciate any comments or advice you have:)
 
Janny said:
Dear Lizzy M,

I know you get a lot of these and your responses are always appreciated. Here's my brief story... I did two years of undergrad at about 3.00 GPA I took almost exclusively GE's at that time, I had some family isssues and I really didn't feel able to apply myself. I moved out west, took a year and a half off and attended a cal state school for undergrad. I spent four years at school 2, with and graduated with institutional GPA: 3.93 overall and 3.97 BCPM. However, my overall GPA (including my first two years at school 1) is 3.57 overall and 3.87 BCPM. During senior year I applied to 3 MD/PhD programs, interviewed and rejected at one. So I entered a PhD program in chemistry. My college was a liberal arts school, so grad school was a good option to do something productive i.e get significant research experience (which I was/am interested in). Now, I am finishing my PhD thesis and will defend next month. I decided after year 2 of my grad program, I really wanted to be a physician so I started volunteering at a hospital. To date, I have 1.5 yrs clincal volunteer experience with significant patient contact. I took the august 2006 MCAT and got a 37Q. My grad GPA is 3.95. This cycle I applied to mostly top tier research schools (8 schools total). Interviewed and waitlisted at my top choice and one interview at a mid tier state school pending. DO you think my lack of success has to do with 1) undergrad GPA 2) limited clinical experience 3) applying late to too few schools 4) having a PhD in the physical sciences. I am really frustrated because everyone told me a should have no problem getting in to a top program. Also, if I do have to reapply, I was thinking of taking a position involving clinical experience, or maybe americorps, rather than bench research. I know I will likely, as a physician, do research. I am just thinking I should enhance other aspects of my application? I would truly appreciate any comments or advice you have:)
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The correct answer is 3) applying late to too few schools.

Work on converting that waitlist to an offer. Concurrently work on getting your AMCAS in by June 15, secondaries submitted with two weeks of receipt, LORs ready to go out by Aug 1.

Do research this year. Americorp would just be a chance for your research skills to atrophy. If you are living near a med school ask around through your grad school contacts & try to find an academic physician/scientist to mentor you through the admissions process.
 
Dear Lizzy M,

Thank you very much in helping us out. I have a question about applicants on waitlists. Is there a difference in your chance of admission if you get put into a waitlist early (October/November), late (March/April), or somewhere in between? Can we "guess" our chance by looking at how early or late that we are put on waitlists? Thanks.
 
Old ortho said:
Dear Lizzy M,

Thank you very much in helping us out. I have a question about applicants on waitlists. Is there a difference in your chance of admission if you get put into a waitlist early (October/November), late (March/April), or somewhere in between? Can we "guess" our chance by looking at how early or late that we are put on waitlists? Thanks.
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I've never heard that this is a predictor of being taken from the waitlist.
 
LizzyM said:
You mentioned having a 3.2 gpa in undergrad from WashU. Now you want to get a M.A. in biology from WashU and get into any school as a Missouri resident. If you look at mdapplicants.com you'll see that there is about 1 successful applicant per year with a gpa <3.3 and MCAT >29 who gets into med school from WashU (and without an M.A.) so there is some precedent.

A 4.0 in grad school is equal to a 3.6 (10% discount) as an undergrad (call it grad school grade inflation). So, maybe a good showing in an M.A. program would improve your application and show that you have the academic chops to do well in med school. If you are really interested in the educational and research opportunities afforded to you by the M.A. program then go for it but not because it is going to help you get into medical school.
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I have a question about the bolded. Does this hold true of the weight of SMP grades?? What about 1 year masters programs in sciences not research focused but hard core science classes?? I'm just curious. We have some programs in pharmacology, anatomy, and molecular medicine I was thinking about looking into. I wanted to know what your thoughts about it was.
 
gujuDoc said:
I have a question about the bolded. Does this hold true of the weight of SMP grades?? What about 1 year masters programs in sciences not research focused but hard core science classes?? I'm just curious. We have some programs in pharmacology, anatomy, and molecular medicine I was thinking about looking into. I wanted to know what your thoughts about it was.
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Graduate school grades are inflated when compared to undergrad classes at most schools (there are some UG institutions with serious grade inflation as well).

Schools vary. It does help us to know the median gpa of the students enrolled in the program (if it is full time), or the student's rank in the program, or some other way to benchmark the student's performance. Sometimes the committee LOR will contain this information, often it does not. Sometimes an individual course instructor will include something along these lines in the LOR (Priya was third in a strong class of 60 students....).

It comes down to wanting to know how well a student is going to be able to do in medical school classes. The problem with making a judgment about SMP courses is that the students enrolled in these programs often have a poor undergrad record and this tends to color one's judgment of the SMP. (Sometimes an adcom member will wonder if the student is doing well in classes without distractions for one year but could not maintain that focus and participate in school life (volunteer service or other extracurricular activities) for four years of med school.)

If you want to take a master's degree as enrichment (not to improve the chances that you'll get into med school) go for it. If you are doing it to improve the chances that you'll get into medical school, apply the "discount" and hope for the best.
 
Hi LizzyM,

I have a unique situation and i can really use some guidance and inspiration :

I did my Bachelors in Mechanical Engineering from India( According to a well recognized International Credential evaluating service - IERF, my Bachelors in India is equivalent to Bachelors in Mechanical Engineering in US with a GPA of 3.9). After i finished my undergrad , my family migrated to US and I did my Masters in Mechanical Engineering at one of the Top 10 US university and I ended up with a GPA of 3.58 ( I was Working full-time and I was a Full-time student during entire duration of my Masters). I later worked in a Research field for almost 2 years, focussing on Microelectronics etc. I have been volunteering in a local Medical School Hospital for Past few months (absolutely love it) .Also, i am in process of taking Biology and O-chem ,to fulfil my pre-reqs for Med schools, at our local Community college. So far i have straight A's in the O-Chem - 1 and Bio 1 and expect good grades this semester too .

Few Questions that i have for you are:

1. During my bachelors, I just had 1 semester of Physics and 1 semester of Chemistry as per say,rest of the courses were purely Mechanical Engineering (though with application of Physics and Chemistry).Also, the courses i took during my Masters had a pretty high level of Physics and Chemistry courses listed as pre-reqs and i have pretty good grades in those courses.Would you suggest me to retake a year of Physics and Chemistry to fulfil the pre-reqs for application purpose??

2. I have heard that AMCAS does not accept Foreign transcripts therefore they wont be verifying my Indian undergraduate grades. Does that put me at a disadvantage when it comes to atleast getting the secondaries from med schools so that i can atleast explain them my situation and grades (submit evaluation of my degree perhaps) ??

3. Does my undergraduate degree from a foreign country put me at a disadvantage during application process ?

4. Do you have any suggestions or comments for me, so that i can strengthen my application for next year.

I would really appreciate any feedback that you have for me.Thanks.:)
 
zed350 said:
Hi LizzyM,

I have a unique situation and i can really use some guidance and inspiration :

I did my Bachelors in Mechanical Engineering from India( According to a well recognized International Credential evaluating service - IERF, my Bachelors in India is equivalent to Bachelors in Mechanical Engineering in US with a GPA of 3.9). After i finished my undergrad , my family migrated to US and I did my Masters in Mechanical Engineering at one of the Top 10 US university and I ended up with a GPA of 3.58 ( I was Working full-time and I was a Full-time student during entire duration of my Masters). I later worked in a Research field for almost 2 years, focussing on Microelectronics etc. I have been volunteering in a local Medical School Hospital for Past few months (absolutely love it) .Also, i am in process of taking Biology and O-chem ,to fulfil my pre-reqs for Med schools, at our local Community college. So far i have straight A's in the O-Chem - 1 and Bio 1 and expect good grades this semester too .

Few Questions that i have for you are:

1. During my bachelors, I just had 1 semester of Physics and 1 semester of Chemistry as per say,rest of the courses were purely Mechanical Engineering (though with application of Physics and Chemistry).Also, the courses i took during my Masters had a pretty high level of Physics and Chemistry courses listed as pre-reqs and i have pretty good grades in those courses.Would you suggest me to retake a year of Physics and Chemistry to fulfil the pre-reqs for application purpose??

2. I have heard that AMCAS does not accept Foreign transcripts therefore they wont be verifying my Indian undergraduate grades. Does that put me at a disadvantage when it comes to atleast getting the secondaries from med schools so that i can atleast explain them my situation and grades (submit evaluation of my degree perhaps) ??

3. Does my undergraduate degree from a foreign country put me at a disadvantage during application process ?

4. Do you have any suggestions or comments for me, so that i can strengthen my application for next year.

I would really appreciate any feedback that you have for me.Thanks.:)
Click to expand...

You'd be better off asking this question of a pre-med advisor or by contacting a medical school or two in your state. I am a medical school admissions committee member and I don't have the background to make any suggestions about your situation.
 
Hi

I recently registered with AAMC to take the July 24 MCAT, and registered with Princeton Review to take an MCAT prep class that would end Jul 10.

I received word yesterday that they were cancelling that MCAT class due to low enrollment, and it is too late for me to get in anywhere alse...for the July MCAT :(

I have 2 options;

1. Princeton Review has offered to pay the fee associated with changing your MCAT date so that I can be fully prepared for the August 6 MCAT.

2. I can keep the July 24 MCAT date, and only miss a weeks worth of the PR class which would end July 30.

I plan to have all the other AMCAS stuff done by next month, but my MCAT wouldnt come in until the end of the summer. My application is not going to be early regardless, but will 2 weeks make a difference? I will get my MCAT scores for the 7/24 date on 8/23, and on 9/5 for the 8/6 date.

What should I do?
 
LaMedecine said:
Hi

I recently registered with AAMC to take the July 24 MCAT, and registered with Princeton Review to take an MCAT prep class that would end Jul 10.

I received word yesterday that they were cancelling that MCAT class due to low enrollment, and it is too late for me to get in anywhere alse...for the July MCAT :(

I have 2 options;

1. Princeton Review has offered to pay the fee associated with changing your MCAT date so that I can be fully prepared for the August 6 MCAT.

2. I can keep the July 24 MCAT date, and only miss a weeks worth of the PR class which would end July 30.

I plan to have all the other AMCAS stuff done by next month, but my MCAT wouldnt come in until the end of the summer. My application is not going to be early regardless, but will 2 weeks make a difference? I will get my MCAT scores for the 7/24 date on 8/23, and on 9/5 for the 8/6 date.

What should I do?
Click to expand...


This is a terrible choice... both have their drawbacks. Would you rather be earlier with the nagging feeling that you could have done better if you had taken all the PR sessions or be later knowing that thousands of completed applications will be in the queue ahead of you (last year it was late November before I got to the applications that had been complete in September -- that's the backlog we run). So, the later MCAT means you are unlikely to interview until early 2008. Being complete before Labor Day means that you might have interviews in Oct/Nov (and perhaps offers before Christmas).

Neither choice is preferable over the other. Choose whichever you can live with.
 
Hello LizzyM,
I was wondering if it looks bad to adcomms if an applicant doesn't use all of the 5300 characters on their personal statement? For example, if they had 4100 characters.
Thanks,
Oscar
 
TinyHineyRikki said:
I was wondering if it looks bad to adcomms if an applicant doesn't use all of the 5300 characters on their personal statement? For example, if they had 4100 characters.
Click to expand...

So you have something that is 25% less than maximum length. If you've said all you need to say, it may be ok.

Some adcom members gripe when the PS is 3500 characters or less (not that we know how many characters but eye-balling the length).
 
Just a quick question.

I have decent stats. 3.7 GPA and 35 MCAT. I have been out of school for a few years and have worked in finance during that time. I don't have any medicine research related research, but do have some research related to my undergrad degree. (Back in the day.)

I am certainly interested in doing some research in medicine at some point, but I'm wondering how much not having any is going to effect my application in the next several months. (Applying in June!!) I do have a good couple of hundred hours of volunteer work and clinical experience, btw.

Thanks in advance for your answer.
It is very nice of you to take the time to do this!
 
LizzyM said:
So you have something that is 25% less than maximum length. If you've said all you need to say, it may be ok.

Some adcom members gripe when the PS is 3500 characters or less (not that we know how many characters but eye-balling the length).
Click to expand...

Does whitespace count as characters? When I was applying to the Sloan-Kettering summer undergrad research program, I wrote my essay, and then edited it to 10 or so characters below the limit (it was too long orginally). However, I discovered after trying to submit it, that they counted spaces in their character count, and my word processor did not. Do most med schools (or yours at least) count spaces?
 
Hi LizzyM! Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions. I have three questions:

1) How do adcoms view extensive leadership experience at college? I've heard that clinical/research experience are very important, but I haven't heard anything about student leadership. I lead a couple global health and peer mentoring student groups, and I've worked really, really hard on them the past three years doing things such as developing curricula for awareness of health issues and mentoring incoming students to cope with college life. They've been a significant part of my college life, and I don't want to de-emphasize them.

2) I am applying this coming cycle, and will obtain most of my clinical experience over the coming summer through a medical trip to Africa and assisting nurses in the HIV/AIDS ward of a hospital. Is it acceptable to mention these activities as summer-of-applying activities in my primary application (which I will submit before either of these activities start)? I ask because I have no other clinical experience (besides shadowing, if that counts) to speak of. I will be able to reflect upon these experiences in my secondary apps, and don't want to hurt my chances of getting an interview due to lack of clinical experience as inferred through the primary app.

3) Does your adcom take international applicants' international status into consideration while reviewing the application? All other things equal, will it count against me that I'm not a US citizen?
 
Kikaku21 said:
Just a quick question.

I have decent stats. 3.7 GPA and 35 MCAT. I have been out of school for a few years and have worked in finance during that time. I don't have any medicine research related research, but do have some research related to my undergrad degree. (Back in the day.)

I am certainly interested in doing some research in medicine at some point, but I'm wondering how much not having any is going to effect my application in the next several months. (Applying in June!!) I do have a good couple of hundred hours of volunteer work and clinical experience, btw.

Thanks in advance for your answer.
It is very nice of you to take the time to do this!
Click to expand...


Put the undergrad research on the AMCAS application under Experience. Your stats are good and you have some other activities for the experience section. You can always work something about your interest in research into your PS or the supplemental (if it fits with the question asked). You should be ok.

:luck:
 
qtrlifecrisis said:
Hi LizzyM! Thanks for taking the time to answer our questions. I have three questions:

1) How do adcoms view extensive leadership experience at college? I've heard that clinical/research experience are very important, but I haven't heard anything about student leadership. I lead a couple global health and peer mentoring student groups, and I've worked really, really hard on them the past three years doing things such as developing curricula for awareness of health issues and mentoring incoming students to cope with college life. They've been a significant part of my college life, and I don't want to de-emphasize them.
Click to expand...

List them in the experience section. Some adcom members like to see how you spend your "free time".

2) I am applying this coming cycle, and will obtain most of my clinical experience over the coming summer through a medical trip to Africa and assisting nurses in the HIV/AIDS ward of a hospital. Is it acceptable to mention these activities as summer-of-applying activities in my primary application (which I will submit before either of these activities start)? I ask because I have no other clinical experience (besides shadowing, if that counts) to speak of. I will be able to reflect upon these experiences in my secondary apps, and don't want to hurt my chances of getting an interview due to lack of clinical experience as inferred through the primary app.
Click to expand...

Do not list what hasn't begun. Send an up-date letter along with the supplemental if there is no where on the supplemental that asks for this information.

3) Does your adcom take international applicants' international status into consideration while reviewing the application? All other things equal, will it count against me that I'm not a US citizen?
Click to expand...

I can't speak for all adcoms/all schools. I've not seen it held against a student. State schools may limit enrollment to citizens who are residents of that particular state and may, therefore, not admit international students. Some schools will state in describing the student body that the students represent xx states and xx foreign countries. That will give you a clue. In other cases, (if you don't find that information in the school's printed materials or on line) call and ask each school that interests you.
 
RogueNine said:
Does whitespace count as characters? When I was applying to the Sloan-Kettering summer undergrad research program, I wrote my essay, and then edited it to 10 or so characters below the limit (it was too long orginally). However, I discovered after trying to submit it, that they counted spaces in their character count, and my word processor did not. Do most med schools (or yours at least) count spaces?
Click to expand...

Ask this down below. The current applicants will have a better handle on how AAMC (AMCAS) handles this than I do. I only see what comes through on my end (delivered to my desktop through the admissions office).
 
first of all thanks for all of the help - very very appreciated.

a quick question about checking the disadvantaged box on the AMCAS. so, i've qualified for the fee assistance program because last year i was an undergrad and my single parent (my dad) has been disabled for the past 7 or 8 years and makes very little money (the cutoff for the fee assistance program is 300% of poverty level in the US - so we were below that for the past bunch of years). this year, i've been lucky enough to land a decent and decent-paying job for my year off between undergrad and med school (if i get in). basically my stats are deece (3.74, 3.88 bcpm, 33R) and i should have a fair chance of gaining acceptance this year without the boost from checking the disadvantaged box, but i'm looking for any honest boost my application deserves.

basically, my question is should i check the box because all through high school and college i was disadvantaged economically (as proven by the fee assistance program) or will my current job make this look dishonest and make me look like a cheat to ad coms??
 
Sandlot1892 said:
first of all thanks for all of the help - very very appreciated.

a quick question about checking the disadvantaged box on the AMCAS. so, i've qualified for the fee assistance program because last year i was an undergrad and my single parent (my dad) has been disabled for the past 7 or 8 years and makes very little money (the cutoff for the fee assistance program is 300% of poverty level in the US - so we were below that for the past bunch of years). this year, i've been lucky enough to land a decent and decent-paying job for my year off between undergrad and med school (if i get in). basically my stats are deece (3.74, 3.88 bcpm, 33R) and i should have a fair chance of gaining acceptance this year without the boost from checking the disadvantaged box, but i'm looking for any honest boost my application deserves.

basically, my question is should i check the box because all through high school and college i was disadvantaged economically (as proven by the fee assistance program) or will my current job make this look dishonest and make me look like a cheat to ad coms??
Click to expand...


"disadvantaged" on the AMCAS refers to your life from 0-18. It provides additional information to the adcom about your formative years. People who grew up in poverty are underrepresented in medicine and there may be some research to show that those who grew up in poverty may be more likely to serve in poor communities than those who grew up in affluence. So, some adcoms may take "disadvantaged" into account when offering admission. You will be asked to list your family size, annual income, whether you worked before the age of 18 and whether your wages helped to support the family, and if you and your family qualified for government aid (not fee assistance but things like free school lunch, public housing, Medicaid/Med-i-Cal, etc). You will also be asked to provide a breakdown of the funding for your college education and expenses (% from merit based awards, need based grants, loans, student, family, etc).

How much money you made as an adult is not relevant and shouldn't stop you from self-identifying as "disadvantaged" if that is how you grew up.
 
LizzyM said:
The correct answer is 3) applying late to too few schools.

Work on converting that waitlist to an offer. Concurrently work on getting your AMCAS in by June 15, secondaries submitted with two weeks of receipt, LORs ready to go out by Aug 1.

Do research this year. Americorp would just be a chance for your research skills to atrophy. If you are living near a med school ask around through your grad school contacts & try to find an academic physician/scientist to mentor you through the admissions process.
Click to expand...
My committee really, *really* likes Americorp & Peace Corps experiences and my advice would therefore run opposite to Lizzy's. I feel like you've proven your research capabilities, now we're looking for interest in your community and the world around you.
 
RogueNine said:
Does whitespace count as characters? When I was applying to the Sloan-Kettering summer undergrad research program, I wrote my essay, and then edited it to 10 or so characters below the limit (it was too long orginally). However, I discovered after trying to submit it, that they counted spaces in their character count, and my word processor did not. Do most med schools (or yours at least) count spaces?
Click to expand...

Yah, a space counts as one character and a newline (enter or return) counts as two characters.
 
dear adcomms:

I am planning on applying to med school this year and have been registered for two majors since my freshman year. I have been mostly been keeping up with only one of them. I talked to an advisor at school and he said to just mention both majors in my primary even though I am not sure or will not be completing both. Should I list both or just one in this case? I am thinking if I dont get into med school the first time I will complete both, but if I do I will just focus on one major. Any thoughts/advice will be greatly appreciated? thanks
 
Lizzy,

You've mentioned before that the committees don't necessarily reevaluate apps that are updated later on and also that you don't get to late apps until the fall.

My spring grades aren't slated to be released until June 28th and those classes will help to move my overall GPA from 3.27 to 3.32 and my BCPM GPA from 3.18 to 3.27.

Is it better to verify AMCAS after the 28th when the grades are done or to verify first and update the schools with the last set of grades later on?

Thanks in advance for your help!
 
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