ADCOMS: Semi-Solicited Advice [Part II]

[LizzyM]

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Members do not see this ad.

My committee really, *really* likes Americorp & Peace Corps experiences and my advice would therefore run opposite to Lizzy's. I feel like you've proven your research capabilities, now we're looking for interest in your community and the world around you.

My adcom also likes Americorp and Peace Corps but for a newly minted PhD in chemistry who is interested in applying this cycle, it is a poor choice.

 

[LizzyM]

dear adcomms:

I am planning on applying to med school this year and have been registered for two majors since my freshman year. I have been mostly been keeping up with only one of them. I talked to an advisor at school and he said to just mention both majors in my primary even though I am not sure or will not be completing both. Should I list both or just one in this case? I am thinking if I dont get into med school the first time I will complete both, but if I do I will just focus on one major. Any thoughts/advice will be greatly appreciated? thanks

I've never seen an adcom care what a major was unless, perhaps, it was engineering. If you haven't been keeping up with one, leave it off.

 

[LizzyM]

Lizzy,

You've mentioned before that the committees don't necessarily reevaluate apps that are updated later on and also that you don't get to late apps until the fall.

My spring grades aren't slated to be released until June 28th and those classes will help to move my overall GPA from 3.27 to 3.32 and my BCPM GPA from 3.18 to 3.27.

Is it better to verify AMCAS after the 28th when the grades are done or to verify first and update the schools with the last set of grades later on?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Verify after the Spring grades come out. Those are major psychological hurdles on the gpa (>3.3 and >3.2) and you won't be that late....

 

[mongrel]

I've never seen an adcom care what a major was unless, perhaps, it was engineering. If you haven't been keeping up with one, leave it off.

I've head adcoms give might small lenience to engineering majors for their GPA's. Are there any other special considerations sometimes given to engineers?

 

[w00tz]

Hi Lizzy,

Quick question for you: my science GPA is higher than my overall GPA (.2 difference) - is that a good thing or a bad thing? Does it even matter?

 

[LizzyM]

I've head adcoms give might small lenience to engineering majors for their GPA's. Are there any other special considerations sometimes given to engineers?

Not that I've seen in seven years. Mongrel, your stats & experience look good and your list of schools is good. You may want to shave the list down before you start writing & paying for secondaries. If you interview well, you should be looking at 4-5 offers.

 

[dazed185]

Sorry. Posted in wrong forum.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi Lizzy,

Quick question for you: my science GPA is higher than my overall GPA (.2 difference) - is that a good thing or a bad thing? Does it even matter?

Doesn't matter.

 

[GEFFENorBUST]

So here's my situation. I'm reapplying this year, and am shooting for the first week of June to get my primary out. My question is how much (if at all) I should change my personal statement. Since my decision to reapply is fairly recent, I haven't done too many new things that I could incorporate into my PS. I do have plans for this year off, though. Would it be appropriate to write about what I plan to do?

 

[LizzyM]

So here's my situation. I'm reapplying this year, and am shooting for the first week of June to get my primary out. My question is how much (if at all) I should change my personal statement. Since my decision to reapply is fairly recent, I haven't done too many new things that I could incorporate into my PS. I do have plans for this year off, though. Would it be appropriate to write about what I plan to do?

Is your PS the best it could be? If so, why change it? If not, it should be re-written.

The PS should describe your motivation to pursue a career in medicine and your understanding of the profession. What you will do in the near future isn't generally a topic to be addressed in the PS. However, if you have a job offer for the year off, it might be useful to an adcom to know where you'll be in the year ahead. Future p/t volunteer position or other similar activities are less relevant to the PS.

 

[Old ortho]

I have some questions as to how Ad Comm evaluates MCAT.

1. What is the most important score you look at: V, P or B?
2. What is more preferable: A higher MCAT (36) that is uneven, such as V 9, P 14, B 13, or a slightly lower MCAT (35) that is more even, such as V 12, P 12, B 11?

Thank you very much.

 

[LizzyM]

I have some questions as to how Ad Comm evaluates MCAT.


1. What is the most important score you look at: V, P or B?

It varies by adcom member and sometimes it varies over time. I like to look at P and B combined. I also like to look at percentiles with cut points by percentile in terms of what is so low as to be worrisome.

2. What is more preferable: A higher MCAT (36) that is uneven, such as V 9, P 14, B 13, or a slightly lower MCAT (35) that is more even, such as V 12, P 12, B 11?

When you look by percentiles, the two point difference at the upper end of the range is miniscule. However, there is a big difference between a V9 and a V 12. I would consider these two examples to be equal or perhaps give a little edge to the "balanced" score because it is in the upper range in all three areas tested.

 

[bostonpmed]

Hi Lizzy,
Just a quick question

I am going to graduate undergrad at 19 and begin medical school at 20 if I do not take a year off in between, Would medical schools look down upon my age?

Thanks!

 

[BlackSails]

Hi Lizzy,
Just a quick question

I am going to graduate undergrad at 19 and begin medical school at 20 if I do not take a year off in between, Would medical schools look down upon my age?

Thanks!

Im not an adcom, but I think that your maturity might be a concern for the admissions committee. Make sure you come across in your personal statement and interview as extremely mature.

 

[JiSU]

Unlike most pre-meds I didn't realize that I wanted to be a physician until I had graduated college and started law school (because it was a graduate school that I had the prerequisites for). After talking with the advisors at my state medical school, they've informed me that attending law school may hurt my application because I didn't have a history of a devotion to medicine. They also informed me that withdrawing from law school would not be a good idea either. So, my question is, what is the best way to show the admissions committee that I want to be a doctor and I want to go to medical school and that law school was an unplanned detour?

 

[Kiara]

Hi, Im a cdn engineering grad, graduated in 05, worked for a year and just spent the last year doing my prereq's and clinical research. I did the MCAT in aug 2004 (31Q but 7 in verbal) and Im redoing it this aug. Can I still apply early, in June, even though my mcat scores are technically "expired". Will the adcomms not look at my application until aug when my new mcat scores arrive?

I also did all the prereqs other than Physics as I thought my engineering courses (electrical) would cover physics. Any advice on that?

As for LOR's, since Im not a science major and havent spent too long with any science professor to be able to get a very personal reference, would an engineer prof count as a "science" prof?!

Thanks a lot!

 

[BlackSails]

Dear Lizzy,

Does PChem w/ labs count as physics for the purpose of premed requirements?
Thanks!

 

[LizzyM]

Hi Lizzy,
Just a quick question

I am going to graduate undergrad at 19 and begin medical school at 20 if I do not take a year off in between, Would medical schools look down upon my age?

Thanks!

Some might consider your application to be stronger if it shows a year or two off between college & med school. It is rare to see a 19 year old whose personal statement and interview are as strong as those of applicants who have more life experience.

 

[LizzyM]

Dear Lizzy,

Does PChem w/ labs count as physics for the purpose of premed requirements?
Thanks!

I've never seen that done. Isn't PChem a chemistry course? General physics is what the med school is looking for here.

 

[BlackSails]

I've never seen that done. Isn't PChem a chemistry course? General physics is what the med school is looking for here.

Physical Chemistry, from what I understand, is basically looking at chemistry from a physics perspective. The reason I ask is that the physics III lab (I am taking physics III) is in an undesireable location in my schedule.

 

[LizzyM]

Unlike most pre-meds I didn't realize that I wanted to be a physician until I had graduated college and started law school (because it was a graduate school that I had the prerequisites for). After talking with the advisors at my state medical school, they've informed me that attending law school may hurt my application because I didn't have a history of a devotion to medicine.

Bull****! Move to a new state (or choose some different schools). I've never heard such nonsense. If it were true, there would never be non-trads being admitted to medical school. As long as you have tested your interest in medicine, what you did in the past before discovering your passion for medicine, will not be held against you.

They also informed me that withdrawing from law school would not be a good idea either. So, my question is, what is the best way to show the admissions committee that I want to be a doctor and I want to go to medical school and that law school was an unplanned detour?

Obviously, you are going to take the pre-reqs. Concurrently, get some time in a clinical setting of some kind (smelling patients, as I like to say), and shadow a few docs in different lines of work so that you can see what it is that medicine is all about. In the end you have to answer the question, "why medicine" and, of course, "It is not law" is not an adequate answer to that question.

 

[orange24]

Hi Lizzy
How important is it to have letters of recs from something you talk about in your primary application essay? I have lors from extensive research work and some clinical work from my undergraduate school. However, one of my ECs that I talk about is volunteering at a hospital in a develping country.. something that spurred my initial interest in going to med school. I was only at the hospital for one month but I do talk about it in my app.. the only thing is that the doctor who runs the hospital is hard to get hold of because he travels a lot and lives overseas. I just interviewed at the school and I don't know if this is something that will be a problem in the adcom review (I just realized it because the interview coordinator informed us that lors are carefully looked at during the final review). Even though it seems late, should I try to get that letter in?

 

[Tribeca]

HI Lizzy! Quick question:

I'm scheduled to take the MCAT this May 31st, however, I don't feel that I would be able to get my "top score" by then so I am planning to reschedule it to either June 15th or July 13th.

I've heard about the importance of submitting AMCAS applications as early as possible. If I take the MCAT in July and I wait until I receive my scores in mid-August to submit my application, would that be "not early?" That is, would it put me behind all the other applications? On the other hand, I understand if I take the MCAT in June and submit my application in July then that would still be still considered early, but it would be more helpful for me to have more than an extra 2 weeks to prepare for the MCAT.

Please help me weigh the pros and cons. Thanks! 🙂

 

[LizzyM]

How important is it to have letters of recs from something you talk about in your primary application essay? I have lors from extensive research work and some clinical work from my undergraduate school. However, one of my ECs that I talk about is volunteering at a hospital in a develping country.. something that spurred my initial interest in going to med school. I was only at the hospital for one month but I do talk about it in my app.. the only thing is that the doctor who runs the hospital is hard to get hold of because he travels a lot and lives overseas. I just interviewed at the school and I don't know if this is something that will be a problem in the adcom review (I just realized it because the interview coordinator informed us that lors are carefully looked at during the final review). Even though it seems late, should I try to get that letter in?

I don't see the need, unless the school specifically stated that this is important/essential. It is understood that getting a letter from overseas is difficult and takes time away from the work that you were there to support.

 

[LizzyM]

HI Lizzy! Quick question:

I'm scheduled to take the MCAT this May 31st, however, I don't feel that I would be able to get my "top score" by then so I am planning to reschedule it to either June 15th or July 13th.

I've heard about the importance of submitting AMCAS applications as early as possible. If I take the MCAT in July and I wait until I receive my scores in mid-August to submit my application, would that be "not early?" That is, would it put me behind all the other applications? On the other hand, I understand if I take the MCAT in June and submit my application in July then that would still be still considered early, but it would be more helpful for me to have more than an extra 2 weeks to prepare for the MCAT.

Please help me weigh the pros and cons. Thanks! 🙂

I can't help you weigh the pros & cons, only give you the facts.

My school receives 1/4 of all of its applications on the first day that AMCAS forwards applications to us. (sometime in July). Secondaries begin arriving in August and it takes about 7 weeks to work through that first 1/4 of the applications. So, if you are applying "later" you will have at least 25% of the applicants ahead of you and perhaps as many as 50% (If you take the exam in July you will certainly be in the "second half".) There are interview slots for 8-15% of applicants (depends on the school). It is very hard to hold back and not grant applications to super-applicants who apply early yet that means that there are proportionally fewer interview slots for those applicants who apply later. (It is very hard to winnow the thousands of applications down to the hundreds who we have room to interview). Sometimes we think that the pool of applicants is weaker later in the season but the past few cycles we've had strong candidates from start to finish.

Weigh things yourself and come to a decision you can live with. At some point you have to face a deadline.

 

[kdizzy]

Dear Adcoms,
This summer I am shadowing an oral and maxillofacial surgeon. He is the chief of the department at a top ten dental school, whose campus also has a top ten medical school. I wanted to know if a letter of recommendation from him will help or hurt my application, he specializes in nerve reconstruction, something that I am very interested through head and neck surgery.

 

[memory games]

Hi Adcom2 and Lizzy. It seems to me that almost every med school lists "research experience" as a determining factor in their admissions decisions. I'm a post-bacc student and I'll be applying this summer, and I feel very confident about my credentials, grades, past experiences, etc.

My only concern is that I won't have any "research experience" to put on my application. I considered finding a research-related job or internship for the upcoming year, but it really doesn't interest me...and I wouldn't want to do something just so it can make my application look better.

So here's my question: Do med schools really look unfavorably upon this missing item in the application? Is is better to just admit up front that I'm not interested in research? I'm a bit worried that this might convey the sense that I'm not academically inclined or motivated to learn on my own (which is definitely not the case, and will be demonstrated elswhere in my app)

Also, if I were to do something research-related in the upcoming year while applications are out, will it even matter to them since it will only become apparent at interview time (if I even get that far! 🙂 ) ?

Thanks for your advice!

 

[blargh]

hi there, i have a short question: i read somewhere on this forum that adcoms see tons of essays about dead grandmothers... i've already written my PS and it kind of uses my grandmother as an intro/ending, but it's not solely centered around her. is that so cliche that an adcom will want to immediately trash it? should i change it?

 

[LizzyM]

hi there, i have a short question: i read somewhere on this forum that adcoms see tons of essays about dead grandmothers... i've already written my PS and it kind of uses my grandmother as an intro/ending, but it's not solely centered around her. is that so cliche that an adcom will want to immediately trash it? should i change it?

It is a cliche. We see it so many times as a beginning/ending that it makes us weary. But life being what it is, for young applicants, it is often the only life experience that they've had with illness/death. If you are up for changing it (perhaps focus on a sick or dying person, someone who is not a relative, whom you met in one of your hospital/shadowing experiences) you might have a better chance of standing out.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi Adcom2 and Lizzy. It seems to me that almost every med school lists "research experience" as a determining factor in their admissions decisions. I'm a post-bacc student and I'll be applying this summer, and I feel very confident about my credentials, grades, past experiences, etc.

My only concern is that I won't have any "research experience" to put on my application. I considered finding a research-related job or internship for the upcoming year, but it really doesn't interest me...and I wouldn't want to do something just so it can make my application look better.

So here's my question: Do med schools really look unfavorably upon this missing item in the application? Is is better to just admit up front that I'm not interested in research? I'm a bit worried that this might convey the sense that I'm not academically inclined or motivated to learn on my own (which is definitely not the case, and will be demonstrated elswhere in my app)

Also, if I were to do something research-related in the upcoming year while applications are out, will it even matter to them since it will only become apparent at interview time (if I even get that far! 🙂 ) ?

Thanks for your advice!

You are competing against thousands of applicants who have research experience. Some schools select applicants on the basis of having had some research experience (it need not be wet lab - it could be based on medical records or surveys or psychological tests). You'll be taking your chances, particularly with schools that put a high priority on research. Be sure to apply to some schools that focus on producing primary care physicians to serve local communities. You'll have a better shot there than at the research powerhouses that are focused on producing physician/scientists who will be the next generation of academic physicians (med school faculty who do patient care, research and teaching).

 

[LizzyM]

Dear Adcoms,
This summer I am shadowing an oral and maxillofacial surgeon. He is the chief of the department at a top ten dental school, whose campus also has a top ten medical school. I wanted to know if a letter of recommendation from him will help or hurt my application, he specializes in nerve reconstruction, something that I am very interested through head and neck surgery.

Why do you think he would be a good recommender? How well does he know you? How long has he known you? What is the basis for your acquaintance? How well can he judge your motivation for medicine, your character, your academic work and/or your interactions with others in group settings or in clinical encounters?

It sounds like you are impressed with his credentials and that his work interests you. That doesn't make him a good recommender. Furthermore, I'd be a little bit concerned about walking in the door with a med school application having already narrowed your interest to head & neck surgery. It may also open you up to questios of "why not dentistry?" as well as "why medicine?".

Faculty, principal investigators in the labs where you've worked, and employers are far better for LOR than someone you have shadowed.

 

[Lshapley]

Hi Lizzy,

I have a question about the economically disadvantaged selection on the AMCAS application.

I am 32 years old and I do qualify as economically disadvantaged, i.e. I was just verified to receive the FAP assistance by AMCAS. However, I am hesitant to select this option on my AMCAS mainly due to my age and my earning potential right now. While both my mother (who is unable to support me, and shouldn't at this age!) and my wife make very little money, I have been able to make a comfortable living at different points in my life (this school year not being one of them). Obviously, I won't be able to support anyone while in medical school and my early life was heavily influenced by coming from a family with very little means. I will be economically disadvantaged while in medical school and I was when I was growing up and through college. Should I select economically disadvantaged? Or would this be frowned upon given my age and earning capability while not in school?

 

[JesusISourLORD]

Hi,
I volunteer at two diff departments in the same hospital. I was going to ask one of the doctors from one of the departments to write me a letter of rec and mention how I work at another department and how I seem to be dedicated to be a physician. Is this good idea or should I get a separate letter. However, most schools only accept 5 letters and I already have 6 or 7 letters so...

 

[LizzyM]

Hi,
I volunteer at two diff departments in the same hospital. I was going to ask one of the doctors from one of the departments to write me a letter of rec and mention how I work at another department and how I seem to be dedicated to be a physician. Is this good idea or should I get a separate letter. However, most schools only accept 5 letters and I already have 6 or 7 letters so...

A recommender should state how the two of you know each other and personal observations and opinions of your effort and character. Some writers will also report information that they have received directly from others (a professor may quote a lab TA) .

If you already have 6 or 7 letters, I doubt that one or two more from people who have met you in your capacity as a volunteer.

 

[LizzyM]

Hi Lizzy,

I have a question about the economically disadvantaged selection on the AMCAS application.

I am 32 years old and I do qualify as economically disadvantaged, i.e. I was just verified to receive the FAP assistance by AMCAS. However, I am hesitant to select this option <snip>

PM'ing you with a reply.

 

[Kiara]

Hi Lizzy & adcomms,

I posted this before but I think I was missed hehe

Im a cdn engineering grad, graduated in 05, worked for a year and just spent the last year doing my prereq's and clinical research. I did the MCAT in aug 2004 (31Q but 7 in verbal) and Im redoing it this aug. Can I still apply early, in June, even though my mcat scores are technically "expired". Will the adcomms not look at my application until aug when my new mcat scores arrive?

I also did all the prereqs other than Physics as I thought my engineering courses (electrical) would cover physics. Any advice on that?

As for LOR's, since Im not a science major and havent spent too long with any science professor to be able to get a very personal reference, would an engineer prof count as a "science" prof?!

Thanks a lot!

 

[LizzyM]

Hi Lizzy & adcomms,

I posted this before but I think I was missed hehe

Im a cdn engineering grad, graduated in 05, worked for a year and just spent the last year doing my prereq's and clinical research. I did the MCAT in aug 2004 (31Q but 7 in verbal) and Im redoing it this aug. Can I still apply early, in June, even though my mcat scores are technically "expired". Will the adcomms not look at my application until aug when my new mcat scores arrive?

You won't get looked at until valid MCAT scores arrive.

I also did all the prereqs other than Physics as I thought my engineering courses (electrical) would cover physics. Any advice on that?

Check with every school you are considering. I have no idea although I'd doubt it.

As for LOR's, since Im not a science major and havent spent too long with any science professor to be able to get a very personal reference, would an engineer prof count as a "science" prof?!

Thanks a lot!

An engineering professor might be acceptable but what about the professors who taught your pre-reqs. These aren't expected to be "personal" references but rather a statement as to your scholarship, curiosity, time management skills, and integrity as can be demonstrated in the classroom.

 

[dochoov]

1) Is it too cliche to start my PS with a quote?

2) I could get three LORs from three different science profs that know me well. Should I get all three, or is this overkill?

3) My clinical experience consists of me volunteering for about 50-100 hours in an ER. Would this be sufficient if this was all you found on my application?


4) I'm about to graduate, and since I'll be applying this upcoming cycle, I'll have a year off. I've already started assisting with research at a hospital. Would adcoms see this as a plus to my application even though I'm just starting?

 

[LizzyM]

1) Is it too cliche to start my PS with a quote?

No, actually it is rather uncommon. I'd guess <2%. Of course, now that I mention it the proportion will rise to 50%. 😳

2) I could get three LORs from three different science profs that know me well. Should I get all three, or is this overkill?

It might be overkill. Schools vary in the letters they want. In addition to whatever science letters you have, you should have one from a non-science prof or someone who has been your supervisor on a job or volunteer activity.

3) My clinical experience consists of me volunteering for about 50-100 hours in an ER. Would this be sufficient if this was all you found on my application?

Not if it was the only thing on your application but it is the very minimum to say "has clinical exposure". Then it would be a matter of what else you have going for you in extra-curricular activity (including employment, etc).

4) I'm about to graduate, and since I'll be applying this upcoming cycle, I'll have a year off. I've already started assisting with research at a hospital. Would adcoms see this as a plus to my application even though I'm just starting?

It is nice to see you doing something after graduation. At your interviews, you'll also be asked about your activities since graduation. It is good to have something exciting to talk about and seeing it on your application can serve as a reminder to the interviewer to ask about the research and whatever else you've been doing.

 

[Bernoull]

Lizzy, your time and insights on this forum are most appreciated.

Quick Qs.

1. How does a second baccaulareate (for gpa improvement purposes) compare with a postbac from an adcom's vantage point. I'm a premed with avg - below avg gpa (3.4cum &3.5 BCPM). Doing a post bac essentially amounts to repeating all my prereqs. Therefore, I'm thinking about supplementing my BS Bio with a B.S. Biomedical Engineering or Biochem. Please share ur thoughts on pros/cons?

2. Does working in a pharmaceutical co. as an Analyst/Scientist viewed in positive light maybe similar to research experience or is it inherently worthless?

2a.Would it be better to work as a Researcher Assistant to an MD Researcher?

Thanks a lot!!!!

 

[LizzyM]

Lizzy, your time and insights on this forum are most appreciated.

Quick Qs.

1. How does a second baccaulareate (for gpa improvement purposes) compare with a postbac from an adcom's vantage point. I'm a premed with avg - below avg gpa (3.4cum &3.5 BCPM). Doing a post bac essentially amounts to repeating all my prereqs. Therefore, I'm thinking about supplementing my BS Bio with a B.S. Biomedical Engineering or Biochem. Please share ur thoughts on pros/cons?

Neither is going to do a lot to improve your gpa (at most it will account for 20% of your total gpa). Bring a 3.4 to a 3.5 with a 4.0 in a fifth year is not going to blow our socks off. Doing a post-bac seems like a total waste of time. I don't generally recommend a graduate degree but in your case it might be better than another BS.

2. Does working in a pharmaceutical co. as an Analyst/Scientist viewed in positive light maybe similar to research experience or is it inherently worthless?

If you are analyzing samples for quality control and the like, then it isn't much to write home about. If you are doing something that is actually research (new knowledge) then it will be more impressive.

2a.Would it be better to work as a Researcher Assistant to an MD Researcher?

Thanks a lot!!!!

Again, it depends on what you are doing. If you have some say in the design of the study or the analysis of the results, then that's great. If you are doing grunt work without much intellectual contribution, then it is less impressive.

 

[146233]

LizzyM,

I wasn't going to write this, but your advice is often sobering, so...

Not unlike others, I had a horrible freshman year (pre-med) in college. 1.68 GPA. Simply didn't go to class -- was too busy enjoying being free from my parents or didn't go homework. No probation, no warnings (because my second semester had a 2.00 term GPA). I chose to take a voluntary Leave of Absence to figure out my motivations. This was the 1998-1999 school year.

I completed paramedic school and then chose not to go back to the original school. In 2001, I enrolled in school B with a Criminal Justice major and graduated with a 3.76 GPA and all the lovely honors that go with it. Figuring CJ (and not medicine) was where I belonged, I completed an M.A. in Criminology at the local state school (GPA 3.7). During grad school, I worked days as a Teaching Assistant and overnight shifts as a paramedic to pay the bills.

Working as a medic reminded me of the satisfaction and excitement I got from medicine, and I decided I couldn't live the rest of my life without giving medicine another serious try. I enrolled at a post-bac program at Loyola (the school from which I graduated undergrad) and have a 3.63 science/3.73 overall GPA. Post-bac organization president, still working 48 hours/week at night to pay the bills, etc. MCAT scores are due May 9, but my practice tests have been 32-34. My other EC's are very good, including one volunteer experience that has spanned the last 13 years.

I suppose my big question is... how much do you believe allopathic schools will be able/will choose to see past that first year? Every grade since has been excellent, although I am aware they will factor into my AMCAS GPA. In the end, I'll be applying broadly (including several DO schools), since simply "practicing medicine" is my goal. Not worried too much about MD vs. DO...


Thank you,
-z

 

[Bernoull]

Thanks for the answers Lizzy.

I can't help but ask, in my effort to contextualize/qualify your responses, what is your school's tier rank?

You sure are one tough cookie 🙂 🙂 🙂 and i can;t help but wonder if that's just a natural reflection of your med school. Please give us some background about the school; is it "Harvardish" or middle-tier, private/public, ivy not ivy, acceptance rates will help paint the picture etc. I apologize if you havealready answered this question..

Thanks

 

[LizzyM]

Thanks for the answers Lizzy.

I can't help but ask, in my effort to contextualize/qualify your responses, what is your school's tier rank?

You sure are one tough cookie 🙂 🙂 🙂 and i can;t help but wonder if that's just a natural reflection of your med school. Please give us some background about the school; is it "Harvardish" or middle-tier, private/public, ivy not ivy, acceptance rates will help paint the picture etc. I apologize if you havealready answered this question..

Thanks

Well, I try to keep my school name confidential. Don't even try to guess. However, not to narrow it down too much it is a highly ranked, research oriented medical school. It has a LizzyM number in the high 60s (maybe low 70s? it seems to rise every year). (LizzyM number is the average gpa(10) + average MCAT - 1). The school makes admission offers to ~5% of the applicant pool so yes, I have to be tough; we just don't have room for everyone who'd love to be here.🙁

 

[LizzyM]

LizzyM,

I wasn't going to write this, but your advice is often sobering, so...

Not unlike others, I had a horrible freshman year (pre-med) in college. 1.68 GPA. Simply didn't go to class -- was too busy enjoying being free from my parents or didn't go homework. No probation, no warnings (because my second semester had a 2.00 term GPA). I chose to take a voluntary Leave of Absence to figure out my motivations. This was the 1998-1999 school year.

I completed paramedic school and then chose not to go back to the original school. In 2001, I enrolled in school B with a Criminal Justice major and graduated with a 3.76 GPA and all the lovely honors that go with it. Figuring CJ (and not medicine) was where I belonged, I completed an M.A. in Criminology at the local state school (GPA 3.7). During grad school, I worked days as a Teaching Assistant and overnight shifts as a paramedic to pay the bills.

Working as a medic reminded me of the satisfaction and excitement I got from medicine, and I decided I couldn't live the rest of my life without giving medicine another serious try. I enrolled at a post-bac program at Loyola (the school from which I graduated undergrad) and have a 3.63 science/3.73 overall GPA. Post-bac organization president, still working 48 hours/week at night to pay the bills, etc. MCAT scores are due May 9, but my practice tests have been 32-34. My other EC's are very good, including one volunteer experience that has spanned the last 13 years.

I suppose my big question is... how much do you believe allopathic schools will be able/will choose to see past that first year? Every grade since has been excellent, although I am aware they will factor into my AMCAS GPA. In the end, I'll be applying broadly (including several DO schools), since simply "practicing medicine" is my goal. Not worried too much about MD vs. DO...


Thank you,
-z

First of all, counting the bad first year, what's your undergrad gpa? If it is >3.39, then I think you'll get a look. Next, thinking about how data are presented to me when I make a first pass at an application, I see gpa by year, post-bac gpa separately and grad school gpa. Right away I'm going to see that you had a funky year & then straightened out. I'm also going to see your age and that's going to be a clue that you are a non-trad applicant.

Many adcom members believe in redemption and second chances precisely because excellent candidates come along who had a sorry start in college only to take time off, wake up, mature, and come back & prove themselves.

Good luck!

 

[Mudfever]

Dear Adcomm's,

Just one of the many questions running through my mind.

1. I have a BS in Bus & Admin., but finished with a really low Cum GPA 2.19. (Started in Sci for 2 yrs w/ 3.6~, changed to Business and went down form there. Longg story, but do have a 3.6 in Sci in that degree) I am getting a second UG in Bio (retaking all sci's) and will grad in may 09 with 2nd UG. I will make a 4.0 during this 2nd UG, but that will only pull my GPA up to about 2.7-3.0. But I will be applying next summer for 09 matriculation. My question is will an adcomm even look at my other criteria before stamping rejected?

Thanks

(I am doing a laundry list of other items to help prove myself, but just wondering if they will even look at it all b/c of the bad GPA)

 

[fyodor06]

Hi Lizzy,

As I mentioned in a post a while ago, I'm going into the application process at deficit because of a low GPA (2.98) from an ivy league because of a horrible first 1.5 years. I have a 36 on my mcat and I'm currently doing some post-bacc bio courses at a grad school (i know how ambivalent you are about grad courses, but coming from a literature major they've been absolutely fascinating 🙂 ). I'm obviously trying to play up whatever attributes I can to balance out the low GPA (hopefully not too shamelessly).

My actual question is about talking about ECs like research and clinical experience and if they can ever work against each other. I come from a critically underserved (medically) region on the border of Mexico (yes, i'm hispanic) and i've spent some time working with local doctors in high school and during my college summers to try and raise awareness about preventative medicine, particularly with diabetes. I really like that educational aspect of community medicine and part of me wouldn't be opposed to going back and working in my hometown. However, I've also done research since I was a teenager in 3 different labs and I'm currently hoping to have two papers approved for publication from my current research job. The other part of me is kind of leaning towards academic medicine. In reality, I don't want to make up my mind until I've been through basic sciences, rotations, etc (fingers crossed!). In my limited experience, they seem like such polar aspects of medicine and I'm worried that expressing interest in one will negate the sincerity of my interest in the other.
My interest in medicine comes from so many different places--community health, my work as a nurses assistant, the lab bench, studying the interplay of literature and medicine--and while I'd love to talk about all of them, I feel like I'd be more successful by focusing on one or two. Any thoughts?

P.S. Sorry for going on and on 😀

 

[Kiara]

Hi Lizzy, thanks for youre responses 🙂

I have 2 more questions..sorry....

1) If they dont take my courses as physics prerequisites from engineering, is it ok if I take them by the time I get in (hypothetically), ie. 2008. So I can take them part time this year/by correspondance or something like that? Or does it depend on each school? So essentially my BCPM average will not include physics.

2) I notice that a lot of people are asking you this but I just want some advice for the kind of gpa I have...

my first two years of engineering were really bad 2.68 and 2.61. Last two years were 3.75 and 3.75. Post bacc year 3.9. However that still makes my overall gpa only 3.34.

You gave an approximate number of >3.39 in an earlier post. Will my marks cut it? Or will my application get thrown out because I didnt make the cut off?

Thank you so much for your advice, it is much much appreciated.

 

[nick_carraway]

This thread alone makes me want to donate to SDN.

Anyway! I have a question about the PS:

How much detail about activities should you give in the PS before jumping into what you got from it via anecdotes?

Does every person who receives the PS also receive the rest of the application including the activity summaries? Or will some background information/description of responsibilities need to be given?

Also, a follow-up question regarding starting PS with quotations. Do applicants usually pull it off? Or does it end up taking too much space to explain the significance?

Thanks in advance!

 

[meowkat444]

Hi,

I'm applying to MSTPs this summer. The decision to go to med school is one I made at the end of college (I love love research, but I also love working with people and the research I did wasn't applicable enough). I have a first author cognition publication and 2 other abstracts/conference presentations. I'm finishing prereqs while working full time as a chemistry teacher (I'm in Teach for America, which is very high pressure) and studying for the MCAT. I'm taking it in July. I have a lot more research than clinical experience, but I will start hospital volunteering/shadowing in May, and I hope it's something I can send updates about as I apply.

My GPA from undergrad is 3.7 at an ivy league and nearly 4.0 since then in postbacc and education grad classes. My initial MCAT diagnostic was a 33, and I have a lot of studying ahead of me so I'm hoping it will go up a lot.

I'm totally committed to this route, but applying this summer will be a huge crunch for me. I will still need a quarter of physics and maybe a semester of chem, although I took all the way through orgo (just placed into an acclerated 1 semester general chem). Will not taking the MCAT until July really hurt my chances? Enough that I should wait another year, even though I really want to get started? I just won't do as well on it if I take it in June.

I'm working at a clinical neuroscience lab next year. I'm worried about my lack of clnical experience, too, but again, I'm going to start volunteering in May and some experience will come with this job. Previously I've worked with some autistic patients and worked in a veterinary clinic (orthogonal, I know, but experience with blood/guts/clients..i thought about going to veterinary school before I discovered the human brain.). My record is strongly service-oriented.

Suggestions about this timeline or my chances? I'm planning to apply broadly-over 20 schools. Thanks so much.