Pros and Cons of your DO School

Can anyone please provide reviews of TOUROCOM-NY, TOUROCOM-NV and NYCOM? NYCOM had a bad one way back in this thread and am looking for another review.

I've looked through the old threads and it seems that very few recent threads have any updated information regarding VCOM. I was wondering if any current students or graduates could elaborate on the specific pros and cons of VCOM as I am very excited about this school. I greatly appreciate everyone's help.🙂

If you are still interested in info, PM me and I will be happy to discuss.

Same here - PM me for another perspective.

Hi Guys,

I wanted to know if anyone can give me the run down on ATSU-SOMA - especially any of the second years. I am excited and nervous all at once with the year 2 starting in the CHC and how it is working out.

Plus, i know it is a new school but it still has ATSU behind it - whats everyone's opinion when it comes to residency time??

Super Thanks 😀

I attended NYCOM in the PBL track. I can honestly say that I had a great medical education! I am somewhat biased because I am an advocate of PBL medical education, but I think the majority of my PBL class would say that we had a great time and within my group of close friends we all did very well on the boards, had great third and fourth year experiences and are currently doing very well on the path to residency. I can say that most of the residencies to which I am applying (Emergency med) (allo and osteo) all spoke highly of the residents from NYCOM and there are plenty of us NYCOMers representing in some pretty competitive spots! Its a large class size with a ton of hospital affillations in NY and NJ. If you plan on a achieving a residency in these states, you should have no problem rotating and showcasing at the hospital you want. They also offer regional tracks to stay on at the same hospital for all of third year. Long Island is definitely expensive and crowded but if you can manage a house rental on the beach (north shore) like we did, you wont regret it! plenty of parties on the beach and a great place to study, jog, kayak, swim etc! I cant speak for the lecture based track...if I did that track im sure i would have been miserable sitting in lectures all day, but they had more free time than the PBL students when I was there. All in all as I wind up fourth year, I would definitely say that I would choose NYCOM PBL again. It prepared me well for the boards, opened lots of doors at local hospitals and kept me close to family in NJ.

Keep in mind that there is not a program out there that is perfect for everyone. It has to fit your personal needs as medical student. If you want to stay in NY/NJ, think PBL is your style of learning, dont mind spending lots of money for tuition, like the north shore beaches, like being 30 min from manhattan night life, give it some consideration. you can PM me with any questions about NYCOM PBL. Good luck!😀

Thanks guys fro the great reviews of NSU so far. The pros and cons seem pretty congruent with what I saw there over a few days. There doesnt appear to be any glaring slams of the school which is good. Youre going to have happy and unhappy students at any school, any program; so it's good to look for patterns.

I'm a first year, so I won't be able to provide much insight on the clinical stuff....

Curriculum: The curriculum is pretty well thought out. If a class was really hard in previous years, they'll make adjustments in the scheduling or organization of the class to make it better for the students. Anatomy is hard at first, but everyone has gotten used to it and the grades have improved. Biochem/Physio/Histo are sort of combined, which is a little weird, but we have to learn that stuff anyway, so it doesn't really matter how they organize it. The attendance policy is that we have to go to 70% of the lectures, and it's really not that bad. I think most of us have found that we do better when we attend lecture.

Basically - it's a lot of work, most of us have lives.


Location: Henderson is your average suburban city with everything you need. You don't need to go to Vegas to have a good time, although there's nothing like the strip! Housing is cheap if you're from California. Expensive if you're from the midwest.

Cost: around 37, 000 a year

Faculty: Most of the faculty are actually REALLY good, a few are straight up geniuses, and most are extremely nice and available.

Reputation: The school is only 4 years old. I'm not sure what the reputation is.

Study areas: They're decent - library is pretty small, but there are study rooms. Most of the DO students also invade the PA and nursing study rooms because they're newer (nicer).

Social scene: The class is really friendly. You have a good mix of married people and single people. The Mormons hang out with Athiests, White people hang out with Asian people, nobody cares! But of course you have the stereotypes - Gunners, people who spread rumors....Oh that reminds me - a large age range too. Some of the 22 year olds can be kind of immature, but then you have people in their late 20s, 30s and 40s, to provide a balance.

Other stuff:

Parking: Some people complain about the parking, but if you went to a big public school, like any of the UC's then you won't complain at all.

Food and Drink: No cafeteria. Just vending machines.

I'm a current 4th year and would be happy to answer any questions you have, just PM me and we'll talk. Probably easier to go in depth that way.

Lots of people ask this question. I certainly did. The problem is, they get responses mostly from 1st and 2nd years.

It's only late 3rd year and 4th year that you start to understand what's going on with your school in terms of getting a residency.

Whatever u do, do NOT go to Touro-California. The clinicals are really messed up. The match process is even worse. The admin will lie through their teeth to you. Tell you that "the rotations are all there." They are not. They will screw up your career, big time.

Besides what Dr. JPH has said about PCOM-philly, anyone have anything else to add about the school?

cliquesh said:

Besides what Dr. JPH has said about PCOM-philly, anyone have anything else to add about the school?

Click to expand...

his stuff was out of date when he wrote it because the curriculum underwent a major change after he finished his nonclinical years. The problem too is it continues to change (for the better) and things are in flux. I don't really feel my evaluation of the preclinical years would reflect what actually is happening now.

I don't think anyone has done kcumb yet. Can someone comment?

does anyone have a recent review of ccom?

JonnyG said:

his stuff was out of date when he wrote it because the curriculum underwent a major change after he finished his nonclinical years. The problem too is it continues to change (for the better) and things are in flux. I don't really feel my evaluation of the preclinical years would reflect what actually is happening now.

Click to expand...

Come on... give us some crumbs. What's been changing for the better, for example? We appreciate it!

JPanda said:

does anyone have a recent review of ccom?

Click to expand...

I can get something up about CCOM in a few hours, after anatomy lab.

I have read AZCOMs post. Are there any other current students that want to add any do's/don'ts? Any information would be appreciated.

Ok, I would first like to preface my description of my time at CCOM by saying that the below post is just my opinion and there are probably many of people who have attended, are attending now, or who plan on attending that see things differently than myself. I am just speaking from my personal experience. Also I am a first year student, so I don't know a ton about rotations, but I have spoken to many second, third and fourth year students, so I'll relay what I have heard.

Curriculum: As most of you know or will soon find out medical school is tough, so there really isn't anything here that is different, but it is what I would call a more "traditional" curriculum. Our year is broken up into quarters. We are here taking classes for at least three of them (Fall, Winter, and Spring). Summer can be used to make up classes one has failed or to do research, clinical, whatever you want. As an MS1 I can say that the transition from undergrad to medical school has been rough. At CCOM they have scheduled 26 credits in the fall, 23 in the winter, and 18 in the spring. Basically that means you are in class all the time, usually from 8-4, some times 8-5 if you have anatomy lab. All tests are at 7 30 am, so you have to get used to waking up early and being functional. They have changed the curriculum significantly over the years. We are averaging so far around a test or so a week, but they do come in bunches (right now we have about 10 tests in two weeks, and then for most of Feb we coast, then have finals). Many classes also have workshops or quizzes that you have to do, so the work is constant, its not like at other schools where you can only turn it on and study during midterms and finals, they work you here all the time.
As an MS1 you take Biochem, Psych I, II, III, Anatomy, Embryo, Histo, OMM, ICM (Intro to clinical med), Neuro, Physio I, II, and some one credit BS classes like patient-doc dialogue. The quality of classes varies. I think the best is by far the anatomy dept which is responsible for Anatomy, Embryo, Histo and Neuro. They have good profs that can explain well. Lectures are fairly helpful. Anatomy classes are also the most difficult. Usually between 10-12 ppl fail anatomy and have to retake 1st year, so study hard and pass the class the first time. Biochem dept is pretty poor, profs don't care much about teaching and the way the lectures are set up is disorganized (alot of self-teaching), but usually ppl do well b/c they work lil assignments in that boost the grades. Physio is solid, but I hear gets worse next quarter when we start kidney. Psych is a joke, Embryo this year is built into anatomy lectures, so its a lot of info, but is solid. Histo is easy, OMM dept is alright, profs and docs could do better at teaching, but the lab is solid and lectures are pretty good. ICM is terrible, probably worst class so far. Very poor lectures and profs, and lil instruction. Very dissapointing b/c the skills learned are important.
MS2s take Micro, Pharm, Path, TIM (Topics in Med), POM (Practice of Med), OMM, Psych IV, V, VI, and a couple of electives. Micro is solid, tough but good, Pharm is alright, Path is easy, but supposedly prepares you well for boards, TIM is horrible for similar reasons as ICM is. TIM's course director can't teach at all and the tests are really really poorly written, POM is just lab for TIM, not bad from what I have heard and OMM is basically a review from first year. Psych as always is a joke and not that bad.
Overall the curriculum is tough b/c you have to be in classes and labs for around 8-9 hours a day, so putting in the time after classes is tiring, but they supposedly prepare you pretty well for boards and rotations. Some ppl skip lectures, but all labs are mandatory. So its more of what is comfortable to you. I think certain departments could be better, but you gotta work with what you have

Location: Located on an old undergrad campus in Downers Grove, IL. Downers Grove/Oakbrook is a really nice west suburb of Chicago. Very rich area, lots of shopping and restaurants within 3 miles of campus. Chicago is an hour train ride away or between 30 min and 4+ hour car ride depending on traffic. Construction is always bad and traffic is usually bad during rush hour and during bad weather situations. Most interstates around here are toll roads, so either get a GPS system to navigate you around them, or get an IPass. I personally like the area, but some people have posted on here that its boring. I mean there are restaurants/bars in Downers, Naperville is like 10 min away, and you have Chicago pretty close by, so I think its great. If you dont like the suburbs or the city i would think twice about attending. Also if you hate the cold and the dark/dreary winters probably not the place for you.

Cost: 42k instate, 45k outta state (2008-2009), most likely will go up about 4k for next year. Probably one of the biggest negatives about the school. It is really expensive. There is talk too that the instate reduction will go away next year, students on campus are trying to petition this, but don't know if that will work. If it doesn't looks like everyone will be paying a ton to go here, but med school is expensive just about everywhere.

Faculty: Explained a lot of this in curriculum, but for the most part they are decent, but there are bright and dark spots depending on the department. Anatomy is solid, Biochem terrible, Phsyio average, OMM needs improvement, and ICM is just down right awful. Just be prepared to teach yourself a lot for boards, especially for the USMLE for Biochem because they teach you nothing here.

Reputation: Pretty strong. I mean it was one of the first five and its very established in this area. Rotations are solid, can do at many, I would say just about any hospital in the area (even NW or U of C). According to the third and fourth years they have some good locations and other locations that are just average, but overall they like them. There is some time to do electives third year I think one or two rotations, but fourth year I think it is four, so you can get out and do what you want to do or do some rotations outta state. Can't get into too much detail b/c I am only a first year

Housing: Very expensive. There are on and off campus housing options. There are traditional residence halls (around 690/month), nicer residence halls (720-30/month), apartments (800-830/month) or off campus (750-1500/month). Utilities are about 100 a month, cable/internet another 60-70. Meal plans start at 300 go up to 900, so overall expenses for school and living range from 55-70 k. I am taking full loans and am sitting at 68 for my first year. Next year ill be getting married, so that will cut costs a lil bit, but its going to be a lot, probably 200-250 at least. Be ready to spend alot if you go here

Study Areas: Not bad, the library is not large enough for all five programs (Psy D, PA, Pharm D., OT, and PT), but rarely do all five use it. Mostly med and pharm use it, and it is plenty of space. A lil hectic around midterms or finals, but other than that its solid. Nice choice of books and some good group study rooms w/ Tvs, DVD/VHS players. There is also a 24 hour lounge that rarely fills up if you want to study all night long. Library hours are usually 7-midnight, but can vary on weekends.

Social Scene: Again, I don't mind it. I mean plenty of restaurants and bars close by and if you want to go to the city just hop on the train. I think people like it for post-test binge drinking fests, and if you don't drink plenty of shopping and movie theaters and what ever you would want to do close by.

Local Hospitals: Sadly, Good Sam is like 1 block away, but its not a teaching hospital, so we cant rotate there, no one can (DO or MD), but Oly Fields is close by, though I have heard that its going through some rough times and if you can avoid it for rotations that you should. There is also Cook County and numerous other ones around the city that are, from what I have heard, good places to rotate at.

Board Prep: Not much time, maybe two weeks at the end of 2nd year before you should take them. Most people obviously have to study during classes, but most say they manage. Its not a fun time, but I think no matter what its going to suck. Many ppl take both COMLEX and USMLE. COMLEX from what I hear is above nat avg, maybe 520-530, so its good enough. USMLE is avg for a DO school, maybe 75% pass it here. If you are taking both just make sure you pick up your study materials for USMLE early and start review b/c alot of biochem will have to be self taught. From what I hear students here do well enough and have no problem matching

Specialties: Very solid match list consistently year in and year out. I think in 2006 we matched 6 into Northwestern IM program. There are plenty of ppl that do Path, various surgery specialities, gen surg and other competitive residencies (Uro, Gas, ER, Neuro). Most competitive residencies are DO, but there a few that can match MD. Plenty of MD IM/FM/ER/Gas. We seem to have a very good relationship with Loyola and can match quite a few there. I think also last year we matched a student into Northwestern for Derm Path (don't know what that means), but we definitely can compete with other DO schools and even most of the MD schools in the area. It is also nice that there are some DO residencies directly tied to CCOM, where I think CCOM students get a slight advantage (I know we have a neuro and gen surg program)

Grades:

Curriculum: B-
Location: A-
Cost: D-
Fin Aid: C
Faculty: B
Reputation: A
Technology: B
Study Space/Library: A-
Library Tech/Resources: B+
Rotations: A-
Social: A
Hospitals: B+
Post Grad: A
Cafeteria Food: B- (improved alot with new cook)
Cafeteria Prices: D

Overall: B/B+ We will see how the rest of my four years go


If you have any other questions either PM me, or drop me a line on the boards (I check em' alot)

Hope this helps and again is just my opinion, but don't necessarily just take what the tour guides tell you about the school as truth, a lot of times they glaze over things or just neglect to tell you things b/c it reflects negatively upon the school

cliquesh said:

Besides what Dr. JPH has said about PCOM-philly, anyone have anything else to add about the school?

Click to expand...

I'll just give the quick summary here if you have particular questions drop me a line. The school is well organized, with great facilities, for the most part great faculty/staff. They don't do anything "just because." (For example: We had anatomy conferences styled like grand rounds.You'll do them some day so practice now.) The students are bright and motivated. I am a first year and they keep telling us are our exam averages are some of the highest they have had. The class is 270 so its not one or two people skewing the results. But I have also found it to very collaborative, people share outlines, review materials study, together and ask questions all the time. The exams aren't easy but passing them is usually straight forward... I would guess it is harder to fail than pass.

I will say the OMM department seems a little disorganized. The chair is out with an illness and we seem to muddling along (no one seems to be in charge, so we have a round robin of lecturers who don't always stay on task.)

The school isn't cheap 36K ish a year but it is a private medical school so I wouldn't say that tuition is really high comparatively for a private school.

The school matches well, has good clinically sites from what I have heard from alumni and third years but can't really speak to that my self. We do not have our own hospital, so shadowing/getting into a hospital setting in your early years can be more challenging. (I remember from interviews and a few friends at other schools (MD) who had mentors and would go into the hospital for shifts in the first two years.) We do have Philly though, with a ton of hospitals and 5 med schools so there are opportunities for research, guest speakers and away rotations that you might not find elsewhere (except NYC or Chicago maybe)

I would say PCOM is pretty much as advertised... I can't think of too many promises that have fallen through on the schools part. Faculty and deans are accessable. There could be more research here but we have some phenomenal professors. Do you trade one for the other?? I am not sure.

Here's a response to a student whose considering transferring to TOURO-CA from another DO school:

Hi,

Please understand, before you make this expensive move, that the odds are you will not get to stay in the Bay Area during your third and forth year for rotations. You may be assigned to do rotations in Michigan, New York, or Southern California.

This happened even to people with partners, spouses, and children.

The school uses a lottery system to assign rotations. You get to ask for 3 choices. In my case, because because too many people wanted to stay in the bay area (myself included) I simply got assigned to a rotation site for third year that wasn't even on my list. And it was in New York City. I had to move there for 10 months of third year.

Most of the sites are very bad. you'll be rotating with large numbers of Caribbean students. There are not enough patients for all the students. There's little teaching and no oversite. If you complain, the school labels you a problem student, and it will be reflected in your dean's letter. So everyone learns quickly to just keep their mouth shut.

As far as fourth year goes, I had to set up every rotations on my own. Not only did the school not help me at all, but they actually put serious obstacles to me setting up rotations at sites of my choosing.

Overnight call, sure, I did plenty of that. Other students at different rotation sites never did it. Some people have never been at a facility that has inpatients. They've just been at clinics for all their rotations. Those people rarely/never do call.

Shelf exams. We don't take them. There's no curriculum from the school whatsoever 3rd & 4th years. Basically, you leave Mare Island and you never hear from the administration again.

I hope this is helpful. Let me know if you have other questions.

Click to expand...

Wow, that stuff about Touro-CA is just scary. Seems odd that there is such a large discrepancy between each school.

I'm planning on going to go to PCOM next year, does anyone have anything negative to say about the school?

cliquesh said:

Wow, that stuff about Touro-CA is just scary. Seems odd that there is such a large discrepancy between each school.

I'm planning on going to go to PCOM next year, does anyone have anything negative to say about the school?

Click to expand...

Having talked to many osteopathic students over the past 4 years, I've gotten the general impression that there's a big difference between the older, established osteopathic schools (like PCOM-PA, CCOM, OSUCOM, MSUCOM, UMDNJ, etc) and the newer schools, like Touro-CA, PNWCOM, etc.

The older schools having their act much more organized. Established connections with rotation sites, etc.

In general, all the Touro schools (Touro-CA, Touro-NY, Touro-NV - yes, there's three!) occupy the lowest possible rung in terms of quality.

bth

bth7 said:

Here's a response to a student whose considering transferring to TOURO-CA from another DO school:

Click to expand...

What are your 3rd and 4th year grades based on if you don't take any shelf exams?

jp104 said:

What are your 3rd and 4th year grades based on if you don't take any shelf exams?

Click to expand...

They are based on nothing. Seriously. Your "preceptor" just makes up a grade.

bth7 said:

Having talked to many osteopathic students over the past 4 years, I've gotten the general impression that there's a big difference between the older, established osteopathic schools (like PCOM-PA, CCOM, OSUCOM, MSUCOM, UMDNJ, etc) and the newer schools, like Touro-CA, PNWCOM, etc.

The older schools having their act much more organized. Established connections with rotation sites, etc.

In general, all the Touro schools (Touro-CA, Touro-NY, Touro-NV - yes, there's three!) occupy the lowest possible rung in terms of quality.

bth

Click to expand...

This remark is just plain ignorant and stupid. The only thing the 3 Touro Universities have in common is the name "Touro". They have different deans, faculties, and rotation sites. It's fine if you dislike Touro CA, but to make a broad statement about all the Touros is just ignorant. I have 3 friends at Touro NV that have been really happy with their education and experience. How could you possibley judge the "quality" of a school that you have never attended?

tphdrum said:

This remark is just plain ignorant and stupid. The only thing the 3 Touro Universities have in common is the name "Touro". They have different deans, faculties, and rotation sites. It's fine if you dislike Touro CA, but to make a broad statement about all the Touros is just ignorant. I have 3 friends at Touro NV that have been really happy with their education and experience. How could you possibley judge the "quality" of a school that you have never attended?

Click to expand...

I do have to admit, of the three, Touro-NV seems by far the best. As before, this is just my opinion of course, formed from my experience as a Touro student, and from talking to other Touro-NY and Touro-NV students.

One error in your analysis. Touro-NV and Touro-CA are actually accredited as one school. They share the same Provost and Board of Directors. However, Touro-NV faculty and students do endorse having a more positive experience.

If you have a different opinion, I absolutely respect that.

bth

bth7 said:

They are based on nothing. Seriously. Your "preceptor" just makes up a grade.

Click to expand...

gah that's pretty scary!

Anyways, I'm sure you'll do fine in this year's match. Best of luck in March and congrats on your imminent graduation!

PS: I'm curious where you rotated in NYC and your impressions of the hospitals. I'm at NYCOM so I might end up at some of the sites. If you want to keep it private, PM me 😉 Any info would be much appreciated. Thanks!

jp104 said:

gah that's pretty scary!

Anyways, I'm sure you'll do fine in this year's match. Best of luck in March and congrats on your imminent graduation!

PS: I'm curious where you rotated in NYC and your impressions of the hospitals. I'm at NYCOM so I might end up at some of the sites. If you want to keep it private, PM me 😉 Any info would be much appreciated. Thanks!

Click to expand...

These were the NYC rotations I did:

St. John's Episcopal. OMGTPISASH. I'll have to decode that over PM.
Mamonides - Solid.
Mt. Sinai - Wow, amazing. Very positive experience. Very student/education-centered place.
Montefiore - Solid.

bth

Hey everyone I received this information from my friend who is currently attending NSU. I thought people might find it useful.

Strengths - or "why I chose NSU"
Student impact - this is one area where NSU shines. Students are actively involved in helping design curriculum, providing feedback on faculty and really help to form the world in which we study. And yes, it's real impact, not just pretend where you fill out a form and never hear again. They are actually good about following up too and provide forums for us Type A's to say what we think.

Faculty - as with any school, there are good and bad professors. However, within each subject area, there are always one or two who will happily come in on weekends or set up review sessions for the students on a request basis. The majority of faculty here really want the students to succeed. It makes them, the school and all of us look good. They will also be honest about a student's situation. If you are failing (anything below 70%) on occasion, they will help you find resources to do better. If you're failing consistently, they will matter-of-factly tell you this is not for you.

Patient contact - begininning in the first semester of your first year (right away), you have real patient contact. This is different than many allopathic and some osteopathic schools where students may not see a live patient until their third year. Each student is scheduled for approximately 7 half-days in a doctor's office or facility each semester. Additionally, the clinical practicum course which also begins right away utilizes simulated patients and actual exam rooms for you to do full exams that you are graded on. Second year, they focus more on communication and interaction than technical skills. Again, all of these things really prepare you to do well on the clinical portion of COMLEX (step 2) and make you a better medical student/doctor when competing with your allopathic counterparts for residencies, etc.

International missions - One highlight for me was the number of international missions available to students. For example the medical mission trip to Ecuador last year was during spring break and students are responsible for the cost ($1600). There are also trips to Jamaica, Ghana, Argentina and the Dominican Republic. These offer a completely different type of medicine. No insurance, very few supplies, just the basics to give people with very little some modecum of care.

Rotations - NSU works with 12 different tracks for third and fourth year rotations. Most of the hospitals are in the Ft. Lauderdale/Miami area, however there are tracks that are in Orlando, Tampa, Georgia (varied cities) and Alabama. I consider it a positive because if you decide you don't like Ft. Lauderdale, you have the opportunity to do your last two years elsewhere. There is a downside to this: rotations are assigned using a lottery system. Each student ranks the sites they want and then are randomly assigned a lottery number. Although the majority of the class gets one of their top three, some end up in their last or nearly last pick. My lottery number was in the 160's (out of 230) and I got my first choice.

Dual programs - The DO/MPH program is challenging but NSU provides a scholarship for DO students which covers the cost of the Master's degreee. Essentially, you get a free Master's that would otherwise cost $20-30K. The only requirement is that you maintain satisfactory academic performance in the DO program (80% or above) and passing in the Public Health program is 84% or better (not 70% like the DO program). They have a few Master's degrees (public health, bioinformatics, etc.).

Pre-doctoral fellowships - NSU offers OPP (osteopathic medicine) and research fellowships. You spend an extra year in medical school, but the fellowship AND subsequent medical school years are PAID for by the school. For a five year program, you only pay for two years of tuition.

University Center - all NSU students get unlimited access to the University Center gym. Cardio, weights, a rock wall, classes everyday from kickboxing, abs, cycling, etc, are all available at no charge

Florida - okay, I have to throw the beach in here as a plus. Honestly, I'm so busy I get to the beach maybe two or three times a semester. However, it's beautiful, relaxing, and sometimes just what the doctor ordered. If you are into the party scene, there's plenty of that here and in Miami which is only about 25 mins away.

Weaknesses
Faculty - okay, the downside of the faculty. Especially in the second year where the curriculum is systems-based, you will have 12 different professors for one course (say cardiology). Many of them are visiting professors that come in from the community. Although it's good to have different perspectives, one of the frustrating aspects of this is when professors conflict in information from lecture to lecture. When it comes to test time, it does matter which professor wrote the question as to what the right answer is.

Anatomy class - unfortunately, for various reasons, NSU has discontinued student dissection of cadavers as part of anatomy class (my class was the last year). My understanding is that it is due to a lack of cadavers as well as lack of anatomy professors. Students now learn off of the prosection lab (already dissected and you are shown stuff). The only dissection available is if you become an anatomy fellow, then you will spend the summer dissecting cadavers for the rest of the academic year. I think this is true for some medical schools, but not all. It's a work in progress but just so you know what to expect.

Administration - one of the worst parts of the school is the administrative aspect of things. Everything is a fight, especially with financial aid. You can expect delays in processing, lost paperwork, etc. Basically, you have to be ON THE BALL and stay on them to get things done. They rarely come to you with issues until it is the 11th hour. Also, the various departments don't communicate well. My roommate last year was in-state, which the admissions office knew, but they did not inform the billing office so they tried to charge him out-of-state tuition. He had to jump from office to office to straighten it all out. It's really up to the student to call, e-mail and essentially harass people just to make sure things happen as they should.

Insurance - NSU requires every student to have medical insurance. If you don't have it on your own, you must enroll in NSU's plan which is Blue Cross/Blue Shield. This is great medical insurance, but also the only insurance they provide. There is no dental or vision. This really sucked for me because last year I had to get two wisdoms out and some other dental work which cost me $2,000 out-of-pocket. And when you're a really poor medical student, this has a huge impact on your life. There is a dental clinic and optometrist/vision on site that will provide services at a reduced cost (because students will be learning on you - supervised of course), but the wait for an appointment is months. I called the dental clinic for the aforementioned wisdoms and they told me not to even call back until the next semester.

Expensive! - I'm sure you're aware that NSU is a private institution and therefore very pricey. Tuition is upwards of $38K per year for out-of-staters. Each year the school sets a budget which is the maximum you're allowed to borrow. Essentially, after expenses are taken out you get about $24-26K per year to live. It may seem like a decent amount, but keep in mind a studio apartment starts around $700 per month around here. And if you have a car payment (like me) you'll probably end up trying to take out private student loans that aren't school certified. And all that partying that you want to do is going to cost big bucks because it's a tourist town. Beach parking is even out of control. The only upside is that you're often too busy to enjoy the good life out there. Just plan on being really poor and learn how to budget as soon as possible.

Parking - NSU seems to continue to grow its student body without keeping up with facilities. For 8 am class, you can expect the entrances to the school to be a nice little wait depending on how you come in. If you live close to school, walking will be faster than driving.

I asked for some clarifications about rotations and specifically concerning the required rural medicine rotations.

M3 year required core rotations: (order in which they are scheduled varies from student to student)
3 months internal medicine
2 months surgery
1 month ob/gyn
2 months pediatrics
1 month psychiatry
1 month geriatrics
2 months family medicine

M4 rotation schedule:
2 months rural/underserved
1 month rural selective
1 month emergency medicine
1 month of vacation (if you're ambitious, you can turn this into another elective)
5 months of electives OR 4 months of electives + 1 month of boards prep

So, in answer to your question, generally all core rotations will be completed by the fourth year, so you should have a pretty good idea of what you want to do so you can plan out your electives. Yes, there is a focus (3 months) on rural/underserved rotations in the 4th year. This is part of the DO philosophy so should be somewhat expected. However, NSU pays for your housing for those three months b/c generally you will be away from campus and they also provide you a stipend. The 2 months rural can be done at one of many pre-set locations which are often fairly interesting. For example, NSU has established a relationship with a major prison out here where students can serve these two months. There are about 20-30 sites throughout Florida, Georgia, Louisiana and Alabama where these two months can be served. Some are out in the boonies, others are in major cities (Miami and Orlando for example). For the rural "selective", you can actually pick anywhere in the country, even if it's not affiliated with NSU. It has to be pre-approved by the office and you must demonstrate that it is rural or "underserved", but keep in mind that busy ERs in major metropolitan areas can constitute "underserved" since there is a lack of medical care in those populations.

As far as the fellowships go, I wanted to point out a couple of things. Students must apply for a limited number of spots so there are no guarantees that you will get them. Also, you will still have to borrow an extra year's worth of living expenses, even though tuition is paid for. You must also keep in mind that an extra year of school would mean one LESS year of making the big bucks as an attending, so you should factor that in. In the long term (years), it will end up costing you money to do it, so only do it if you want to do OPP or research later on.

And lastly, the MPH. ER docs, for example, have a high burn out rate and some move into administration. This is where having an MPH will make a physician more competitive for those opportunities. Also, in general, most of the docs I've talked to here say that having an MPH makes you more appealing in residencies, and in the general job market out there. Plus, for emergency medicine, where you have to deal with things like bioterrorism, mass casualty situations, infectious disease (MRSA, VRE), a public health degree actually applies quite well. Finally, it's FREE and doing it now is so much better than deciding to do it later and pay for it.

There's one more thing to mention about the MPH program. You are required to do a public health rotation in order to complete the degree. However, instead of using one of those valuable electives, they will allow you to combine it with the rural "selective" and knock both of them out at once.

Very good reply. Except the burnout thing with ER medicine is vastly overstated and resulted in the past from differences in training. Go for the MPH if you want to be involved with...public health. The degree most likely won't help you that much with the things stated, or it is nothing that a little CME in the future and a book or two won't cover.

bth7 said:

Here's a response to a student whose considering transferring to TOURO-CA from another DO school:

Click to expand...

this is indeed scary...i guess it was naive of me to think 'cool...i'll go to tucom-ca and hang in SF for 4 yrs'...
the way this description is it sounds EXACTLY like an offshore school...do basic sciences for 2 yrs and then get sent to an affiliate hospital for clinicals...which you may have to set up yourself...SHEESH!

i know Touro-NY is having some issues with that as well since SGU bought up a bunch of clinical sites...

i always thought that US is better...but if i only get accepted to one of the 'newer' DO schools should I seriously consider an offshore med school like Ross or SGU?

I'm very interested in hearing about KCUMB and DMU (especially after that very negative review!). Anyone?? PLEASE!!!

DaBlackRose said:

I'm very interested in hearing about KCUMB and DMU (especially after that very negative review!). Anyone?? PLEASE!!!

Click to expand...

Search the thread for keywords...you'll find several in previous pages.

homeboy said:

Search the thread for keywords...you'll find several in previous pages.

Click to expand...

I think KCUMB is not covered by anyone yet, any takers? I'm deciding between KCOM and KCUMB and I'm currently leaning toward KCOM but I would love to hear from KCUMB people. 🙂

I matched , so here goes............
(If any current or former students recognize who I am based on what I say here, please keep my identity to yourself) 🙂


Curriculum & Faculty –
EXAMS:-
Approximately 6 weeks of stuff followed by the hell week that is Block exams. I like the block system since you can slowly peak your studying & then totally crash for a week after exams are over. No free week & usually no study days. Just 5 days w/ 10 exams & then off to the Strip to drown your sorrows.
Grades are numerical w/ a weird GPA calculating system where a 100 is a 4.0 & a 90 is 3.5, so you have to be PERFECT to get a 4.0 (not a concern for most people but does seems unfair)
GPA calculations are even weirder when it comes to 3rd year. We were initially told they would count towards our final Dean's letter GPA but that soon got changed (More on the flip-floppers that are in administration later on)
You do NOT get exams back. You can look at them, usually at an assigned time in a class room, & you get to challenge the Qs on the bulletin board.


Year 1
BIOCHEM :-
As with most DO schools (from what I have heard) this is a relatively weak department but nothing that hardcore studying & UW Qs can't solve.
Dr. Sadik – Knows her stuff, knows how to teach. Just think of a no-nonsense Judge Judy type person but WAY WAY nicer. Can go to her office any time & she helps out. Really invested in the students, which is great. Has been there since the beginning (04)
Dr. Bondarenko – OK. Getting better. Accent is difficult to understand & ventures into trying to teach other things or trying to get "clinical" at the expense of teaching what he is supposed to be teaching (Why would you give a 15 slide presentation on antibodies etc during a "Blood Proteins" lecture when there is a full Immunology course on schedule 2 weeks away??)


ANATOMY:-
Solid. Dr. Ma did a great job of getting us off the ground in a big way & the incoming people have maintained that. I felt 100% prepared for both USMLE & COMLEX.
The lab is awesome. Very well maintained.
Dr. Roy is realistic in the amount of amount of material he wants you to know (a complaint from previous years) & the new Anatomy Director is supposedly awesome.
They have some other lecturers that come in & some new people that I do not know about personally but have heard good things.

PHYSIOLOGY:-
Hit & miss depending on teacher.
Dr. Guadagnoli, the main teacher, gets better every year.
Dr. Ruhoy is awesome but only teaches renal (although that is the hardest topic).
Dr Ioudina is crap. Difficult accent, inability to teach coupled with the hard topics make for a very frustrating encounter with her.
They have PBLs & group projects which are tested on the exam. The bad thing about that is that your grade for a particular topic depends on how hard your classmates worked on their project.
They give you a good base, but you will still need BRS physio along with UW to do well on USMLE.

NEURO –
Dr. Wells – AWESOME. Great lectures, very fair exams. Bad news = I believe he has stepped down as Neuro chair & does very little lecturing now. Good news = Dr. Skyboh took over
Dr. Skyboh is a chiropractor w/ a PhD in Neuro. He knows his stuff too. Great w/ students, fair exam, very nice guy. Teaches MMA along with another chiro, twice a week, in the gym.
You will be very well prepared for both USMLE & COMLEX.

HISTO -
While Histo will probably never make or break someone's USMLE score, Dr. Miller's notes have a lot of basic physio that serves as a very good review before going into the nitty gritty detail that is Basic Science Foundation (Physio/Biochem/Histo/genetics) course. The labs are boring but he does the best he can. His notes are the biggest asset you will have to learn basic physio if you have forgotten it.

OMM –
They have a new head of dept who I do not like but the 10 & 11 classes do. I liked Dr. Jones a lot but that may be d/t it just being my 75 classmates & all the teachers in out big old warehouse for one year before the school expanded.
The classes are boring, the labs more so (3hr labs no matter how easy the treatments we're learning) BUT you come out prepared for COMLEX 1.
They used to have a review of everything 2nd semester of 2nd year so that by the time you got done w/ 2nd year all the OMM was fresh in your mind & you really felt prepared. I believe they have since done away with it, in favor of more cranial etc, although that may change yet again.

Year 2
Micro –
Dr Qureshi has won teacher of the year 2 of the last 3 years. His goal is to teach you for the USMLE not the COMLEX. As such, his notes are WAY dense, but my class was consistently scoring 80-95% on the Kaplan micro/immuno Qs once we got done. One of the awesomest teachers ever. There is always a long line of students outside his office to talk to him but all topics other than Micro/Immuno 🙂. Very invested in all students, very helpful outside of class.
Dr. Else – Nice lectures, but gives away the exam Qs during class which may seem helpful but is ultimately very detrimental on Boards etc. Have to have self discipline to try & learn all the stuff she never mentioned as being on the test since you will never get back to reading it later on.
Dr. Hartley – Not very good. OK lectures, very confusing exam Qs. The less he teaches, the better.

Path –
Dr. Simms is the chief forensic pathologist for Clark County, so he knows his stuff as well. Great notes, even better lectures & an awesome guy to do a rotation with. You will be very well prepared for USMLE.
The administration should be doing everything in their power to hang on to him but alas the disconnect b/w admin & students is a big concern & will be discussed later on. Pray that he is there for the long run.

Pharm –
There are in transition right now. The previous person left/got fired & opinions on the new teachers are very varied. They do know their stuff but ability to lecture seems to be a slight problem. That, of course, gets better w/ time.
Cannot comment on preparedness for USMLE.

Psych –
They had a new guy that was supposedly very good. Got into it with one of the "liked by admin" people & ended up almost getting fired………even after winning Teacher of the Year 😕.
Cannot comment on preparedness for USMLE
Buy the BRS book for this & you will be set for USMLE.

CS –
The only disaster bigger than this class is probably the Bush presidency. 😀. The class is very unorganized, teachers forget to show up, we were given 300 + slide lectures on DM w/o mention of DKA 😡 It is a 10 credit class (each semester) so a lot of people waste time studying for this in order to maintain GPA but if you study that much for Path, pharm & Micro you will kick ass on the boards & then nobody will care what your GPA is. The good news is that ALL my friends at various medical schools have had the same experience with this class.

Location:-
Henderson, NV. One of the fastest growing cities in the US. Very close to Las Vegas. All the benefits of living in Vegas w/o actually having to live in Vegas.

Cost: Holy Crap

Reputation:
New school so, as of yet, undetermined. We have people match in some pretty competitive places but reputations take a while so hopefully another couple of years & we can have the start of something.

Clinical Rotations:
Hit & miss, w/ more misses. My very first IM rotation was actually w/ an ICU doc who was asking me to adjust vent settings etc while I'm trying to remember what the heck the "S" in SOAP stands for. 😳
We have had students do rotations w/ Gyn oncologists (as their OB-Gyn rotation) & thus have never done a C-section, delivered a baby, done a Pap.
Other students have done their IM rotations w/ docs that have an outside office w/o any hospital patients (essentially an FP rotation)
If possible, you should do both your 3rd & 4th years somewhere other than Vegas although that may require a lot of effort on your part to get good rotations.
Lots of people get overbooked, lots of preceptors do not know how many students they are getting.
They hired more people and streamlined the office quite a bit. Dr. Eisen is pretty student friendly although he does have a set way of doing things & rarely deviates unless it would be detrimental to the student somehow. (Ex:- He insists on 8 weeks of Peds & 8 of OB-Gyn even though you need only 6 of each...........essentially robbing you of one extra elective)
They have a new addition in Dr. Wahab, who is also very nice & works with students to get the best possible schedule.
You basically submit a form with your top 3 requests (vacation in July, Peds in Oct etc) & they try & accommodate everyone. The rest of the schedule is just random assignments to one of the 3 hospitals (UMC, Valley, Sunrise…..they may be more) & to clinics etc for FP, Peds, OB etc.

Housing:-
Lots of apartment complexes in the vicinity, although pretty expensive. Average for 1 bedroom is $750-800, with 2 bedrooms = $950-1100.
Quite a few students have bought condos & with the market the way it is buying may not be a bad option.

Study areas:-
Lack of study space is a problem but people have managed so far by going to the near by Starbuck's, B&N & the UNLV library. A lot of people study in the classroom itself & it is unofficially a "quiet" study area. All the books you need are in the library w/ LOTS more online (Harirsson's, CMDT, etc)

Cafeteria:-
An on campus cafeteria will never happen since it would have to be kosher & kosher food sucks. There is a Subway w/i walking distance & tons of sandwich, fast food places etc near by. (El Pollo Loco, Chipotle's, Pei Wei, Cafe Cabo)
Stay away from the Sunset Station Casino buffet unless you are looking for a "cleanse"

Social Scene:-
Vegas. ‘nuff said.

Board Prep:-
No specific board prep course, although you can buy a bulk package from NorthWestern, Kaplan etc & the school will let you use their classrooms. (I think NW has off campus classes)
All classes prepare you for the COMLEX.
For USMLE
Anatomy, Neuro, Histo, Ethics, Immuno/Micro, Path – Very well prepared 👍
BioChem, Physio – Not so much. Requires extra effort on your part
Pharm, Psych – Undetermined d/t new faculty

Administration:–
Dr. Forman (the Dean) can be very vindictive. He got into an online argument w/ a student & threatened to put "unprofessional" on his letter if the student didn't stop bringing up very relevant counterarguments to his positions (mandatory attendance, not too many good IM rotations etc).
Also eventhough there was no mandatory attendance the 2nd year the DO-09 class was told (w/ only 2months or so left in the semester) that from now on if they didn't show up to class they would get an "unprofessional" & "unexcused absences" on their letter.
Dr. Forman has gone back on his word MANY times (bigger flip-flopper than Kerry 😀) so no matter what they promise you, take it w/ a TON (not grain) of salt.

GPA calculation – See under "Exams"

Rotations – When we complained about lack on inpatient IM rotations, Dr. Forman told our class that he did not think there was any difference b/w inpt & outpt IM …..Really???
They did not hire someone in the rotation coordinator's position till about 2 months out which was obviously a recipe for disaster. So do they learn their lesson....Heck no....They hire someone in JULY for ERAS when it is to be submitted in Sept & the person they hire has never been in that position before & gets her "training" by reading the FAQs on the ERAS website. Then she proceeds to upload the wrong LoRs to the wrong programs (almost cost someone their Radiology residency) & the wrong pictures to the wrong application (so Mr. Patel, when did you become a tall white boy)

Boards - His stance is.........."Don't worry, you will pass"…….& then leaves you to fend for yourself. The one piece of advice we got from administration regarding Boards (since we had no upperclassmen) was do NOT use First Aid as it is a crappy book….So the one book that pretty much every med school friend, intern, resident told us to use is not to be used.

Mandatory attendance is the stupidest policy that Touro has. Luckily, my class got away with it since we were in the first class & no one really knew what policies were being implemented (something that, unfortunately, still happens 4 years later).
The fact that the administration does not turn off the internet during class hours is a testament that they force students to go to class out of an inflated sense of ego rather than truly caring about what the students learn & how well they do (since so many people are on IM or playing games online)
Having been taught for 4 years to treat each patient as a unique individual (even more so perhaps in DO schools) it is ironic that the school has a catch-all policy of "Everybody does better when they go to class"
I can see going to class for CS class (with docs from the community giving their time to give us lectures) but the in house faculty should just load the lectures on to the website & plan on seeing us on test day. If the lectures are prepared well (and the Neuro, Histo, Immuno, Anatomy & to some extent Biochem are) then there should be no need for the instructors to add anything. If students have Qs they can post on the school's bulletin board or e-mail the teachers (they are very good about replying back in a timely manner)
Even though the teachers voted (although I do not know what % was for it) for an attendance policy 2 years ago, quite a few have since changed their minds after seeing the class averages drop significantly. The administration spin on this is "Less people are failing" BUT they do not tell you if the number of A's or B's has dropped (and based on conversations with the teachers.....it has)
Bottom line...get some good ear plugs, take notes in class (at your own pace) & don't party too hard

Lecturers - The administration seems to be on a totally different page than the students when it comes to lecturers. There does not seem to be any effort on their part to hang on to the teachers that are awesome. The fact that they have stuck around till now is a testament to how much they want the students to succeed & the school seems to take advantage of this & does not listen to them. Obviously credit goes to the administration for hiring these people in the first place but they need to do everything they can to keep them.
They hired someone right out of Pharm school (never taught before) as the Head of the Pharm dept which was a total disaster, luckily she left.
Another teacher, for Path, was really bad but any complaints we had were chalked up to "med students being a**holes". It wasn't until the 3rd year that she got fired for plagiarizing exam Qs from a university's website.

Random Stuff:-

1. The school has a good mix of different religions & everyone hangs out with everyone else.......atleast until the inevitable cliques form 🙂
   
2. The school closes for Jewish holidays & for Sabbath (sundown Fri to sundown Sat) during which the library & anatomy labs are closed but the building itself is open to study in.
3. You will NEVER be discriminated against as a Muslim. 👍 (& I assume as any other religion as well, but being a Jewish school some Muslims may be concerned)
4. There is a decent weight room & basketball/Volleyball court. Also a table-tennis table. They have regular intra-murals in all 3.
5. Wireless internet throughout the school
6. OSCE rooms for fake patient exams
7. The school hires the "Project Prepare" people which involves doing DREs, breast exam, pelvics etc right at the end of 2nd year. Awesome, since you get over the jitters.
8. The support staff is awesome. They really help you out with setting up appointments with teachers, getting your financial aid out to you e

Well, that's about it. I am sure more stuff will pop into my head at some point so I will just add it here.
Good luck to those waiting to find out about which med school will rob them of their innocence & make them cynical pseudo-humans in 4 years .

.

snoozing said:

I think KCUMB is not covered by anyone yet, any takers? I'm deciding between KCOM and KCUMB and I'm currently leaning toward KCOM but I would love to hear from KCUMB people. 🙂

Click to expand...

I am a fourth year student at KCUMB and I am a fan of the school. The Genesis system goes well with how I learn. I like system based learning and the faculty is great overall, especially pathology. I feel like I got a great education the first 2 years and my clinical spot for 3rd year was pretty good. I have been on several away rotations this year and feel like I was well prepared compared with other students from good MD schools. I would pick the school that offers a curriculum that fits your learning style in a city that you want to live in. Medical school takes up a lot of time but you will have time to have fun too. Every school has a downside and I would say that a really large class size and cost would be KCUMB's downside. PM me if you have specific questions.

I know there are some posts a ways back, but I was wondering if anyone has recently done a review of UNECOM? Any new info about how this year is going in particular? Thanks!

any reviews for NYCOM's lecture based track?

Thanks!

Feel free to PM me with specific questions as well. I dont have time right now to do the all out post that some have already done.

And NO, my inability to post a lengthy description is not because of the school hammering us with stuff. Feel free to ask me any ?'s about KCUMB or KC and Ill get back to ya😀

malisa said:

Well you may think the location is in fact an A but I do not. A place to rent is harder to find. A place for my husband to work in impossible to find. The fact that I have to drive an hour and a half to get to a target, a real mall, or a normal sit down restaurant is annoying. I'm sorry but I don't have to live in the middle of no where in order to make myself study.

That being said I love DCOM but of course every school is going to have its pros and cons.

Click to expand...

Can your husband cook? He could start a restaurant. 😉

I was wondering if any of the current students especially M3 or M4 cover KCUMB. Thanks in advance.

nerdsmakegraves said:

Hi Guys,

I wanted to know if anyone can give me the run down on ATSU-SOMA - especially any of the second years. I am excited and nervous all at once with the year 2 starting in the CHC and how it is working out.

Plus, i know it is a new school but it still has ATSU behind it - whats everyone's opinion when it comes to residency time??

Super Thanks 😀

Click to expand...

A review from GreenShirt 👍 (posted in '07)

Can someone please do one for the NYCOM lecture based track

Any for WVSOM?

Thought I would chime in on DO schools and their 3rd year rotations. This is wear DO schools and MD schools educations greatly diverge in terms of quality. A primary affiliated hospital is huge asset to education. For instance, NYU's primary hospital is Bellvue. All their students rotate at this facility, a VA hospital and a community hospital. All the faculty that teach their first and second year classes also teach them on rounds as 3rd and 4th years. They have structured didactics, given a good deal of attn, forced to do presentations, case write-ups etc.. and are properly evaluated. Furthermore they can network with their pd and chairs, and participate in research for longer periods of time (b/c they spend 2 years in that same hospital). Most importantly the undergraduate school has a 'say' in how the teaching physicians treat their 3rd and 4th year students. The teaching docs are obligated, and often take great pride in educating 3rd and 4th year students. If they don't, they will get the boot. This makes the third and fourth years a smoother transition then what we DO"s get.

DO schools and FMG's are forced to rotate a multiple small, often crappy community hospitals with very little research, and residents that typically barely speak english and smell funny (no, seriously). Physicians at these facilities usually have no vested interest in the students, and see them as a side project if time permits. Education, often lacking, varies greatly from site to site, and because their are so many sites, DO schools can do very little to ensure that their students are getting properly educated. Furthermore, if they are not, the school has no pull to force the physicians hand. That is, the school can't fire the doc, and its not like the hospital is raking in money from the undergrad medical school that they feel the need to listen. Also, because you are bouncing around so much, you can't network, or get on real research projects (which usually take a year or so to get off the ground).

Carribean schools have actually caught onto this and are paying community hospitals buckets of money to ensure their students have a spot. In turn the hospitals respond favorably to this $$$$ and want to keep the students happy, ie meetings with the chairs, structured didactics etc...

In short, if you can go MD, go MD. Lets face it, the upper half of the class probably could have done just as well at a good MD school, but b/c of either lack of emotional maturity at the time, poor advice, a subpar MCAT score, or a couple B's in undergrad b/c of too many happy hours we ended up as DO. Though i think the first and second years are very similar, the 3rd and 4th years greatly greatly greatly differ.

Lokhtar said:

That's what I am doing on here....the information does not appear on the schools website. From what I gather, the I don't think the PCOMs, NYCOM, LECOMs, TUORO's, UNECOM, and WVSOM have their own. I'm not sure about MSUCOM, Ohio, Oklahoma, Texas, and UMDNJ.

Click to expand...

mentulbloc said:

In short, if you can go MD, go MD. Lets face it, the upper half of the class probably could have done just as well at a good MD school, but b/c of either lack of emotional maturity at the time, poor advice, a subpar MCAT score, or a couple B's in undergrad b/c of too many happy hours we ended up as DO. Though i think the first and second years are very similar, the 3rd and 4th years greatly greatly greatly differ.

Click to expand...

Although I agree with mentulbloc's first point in his post (I didn't quote it but the importance of a school having a good network of hospitals is a valid point) I am so tired of people putting down DO students for being DO students. I may not have started my medical education yet, but I find it completely insulting every time someone tries to justify why I chose to go to a DO school. No one knows the particulars of anyone's decision but his/her own and to make a general statement about DO students being emotionally immature and all that other nonsense is just ridiculous and ignorant.

Besides, the quality of 3rd and 4th rotations will vary from school to school, regardless of whether it's a DO or MD school. That's why it's important to look at all four years when choosing where you'd like to go to school (which by the way is the advice I received so I guess it wasn't exactly poor advice after all).

😕😕😕

mentulbloc said:

Thought I would chime in on DO schools and their 3rd year rotations. This is wear DO schools and MD schools educations greatly diverge in terms of quality. A primary affiliated hospital is huge asset to education. For instance, NYU's primary hospital is Bellvue. All their students rotate at this facility, a VA hospital and a community hospital. All the faculty that teach their first and second year classes also teach them on rounds as 3rd and 4th years. They have structured didactics, given a good deal of attn, forced to do presentations, case write-ups etc.. and are properly evaluated. Furthermore they can network with their pd and chairs, and participate in research for longer periods of time (b/c they spend 2 years in that same hospital). Most importantly the undergraduate school has a 'say' in how the teaching physicians treat their 3rd and 4th year students. The teaching docs are obligated, and often take great pride in educating 3rd and 4th year students. If they don't, they will get the boot. This makes the third and fourth years a smoother transition then what we DO"s get.

DO schools and FMG's are forced to rotate a multiple small, often crappy community hospitals with very little research, and residents that typically barely speak english and smell funny (no, seriously). Physicians at these facilities usually have no vested interest in the students, and see them as a side project if time permits. Education, often lacking, varies greatly from site to site, and because their are so many sites, DO schools can do very little to ensure that their students are getting properly educated. Furthermore, if they are not, the school has no pull to force the physicians hand. That is, the school can't fire the doc, and its not like the hospital is raking in money from the undergrad medical school that they feel the need to listen. Also, because you are bouncing around so much, you can't network, or get on real research projects (which usually take a year or so to get off the ground).

Carribean schools have actually caught onto this and are paying community hospitals buckets of money to ensure their students have a spot. In turn the hospitals respond favorably to this $$$$ and want to keep the students happy, ie meetings with the chairs, structured didactics etc...

In short, if you can go MD, go MD. Lets face it, the upper half of the class probably could have done just as well at a good MD school, but b/c of either lack of emotional maturity at the time, poor advice, a subpar MCAT score, or a couple B's in undergrad b/c of too many happy hours we ended up as DO. Though i think the first and second years are very similar, the 3rd and 4th years greatly greatly greatly differ.

Click to expand...

You hated NYCOM that much?

aimee21 said:

Although I agree with mentulbloc's first point in his post (I didn't quote it but the importance of a school having a good network of hospitals is a valid point) I am so tired of people putting down DO students for being DO students. I may not have started my medical education yet, but I find it completely insulting every time someone tries to justify why I chose to go to a DO school. No one knows the particulars of anyone's decision but his/her own and to make a general statement about DO students being emotionally immature and all that other nonsense is just ridiculous and ignorant.

Besides, the quality of 3rd and 4th rotations will vary from school to school, regardless of whether it's a DO or MD school. That's why it's important to look at all four years when choosing where you'd like to go to school (which by the way is the advice I received so I guess it wasn't exactly poor advice after all).

Click to expand...

Congrat's on the UMDNJSOM acceptance! Yeah, I don't know where mentul's quite coming from, but UMDNJSOM's clinicals looked great (Kennedy) and PCOM's are excellent too, and I'm sure NYCOM has good clinicals. Dunno. Hopefully he/she will elaborate a bit after these posts.

Anyone have any info about KCUMB? I have loved what I have read about the other schools but I am wondering about KCUMB, any help?

mentulbloc said:

Thought I would chime in on DO schools and their 3rd year rotations. This is wear DO schools and MD schools educations greatly diverge in terms of quality. A primary affiliated hospital is huge asset to education. For instance, NYU's primary hospital is Bellvue. All their students rotate at this facility, a VA hospital and a community hospital. All the faculty that teach their first and second year classes also teach them on rounds as 3rd and 4th years. They have structured didactics, given a good deal of attn, forced to do presentations, case write-ups etc.. and are properly evaluated. Furthermore they can network with their pd and chairs, and participate in research for longer periods of time (b/c they spend 2 years in that same hospital). Most importantly the undergraduate school has a 'say' in how the teaching physicians treat their 3rd and 4th year students. The teaching docs are obligated, and often take great pride in educating 3rd and 4th year students. If they don't, they will get the boot. This makes the third and fourth years a smoother transition then what we DO"s get.

Click to expand...

Sir/madam, unless you have PERSONALLY evaluated every single DO school in the country, you have no facts to back your claim, and from the way you are talking about NYU it IS your claim, that DO schools do not act the same way. That they do not provide the same type of experience to their students as NYU does.

mentulbloc said:

DO schools and FMG's are forced to rotate a multiple small, often crappy community hospitals with very little research, and residents that typically barely speak english and smell funny (no, seriously). Physicians at these facilities usually have no vested interest in the students, and see them as a side project if time permits. Education, often lacking, varies greatly from site to site, and because their are so many sites, DO schools can do very little to ensure that their students are getting properly educated. Furthermore, if they are not, the school has no pull to force the physicians hand. That is, the school can't fire the doc, and its not like the hospital is raking in money from the undergrad medical school that they feel the need to listen. Also, because you are bouncing around so much, you can't network, or get on real research projects (which usually take a year or so to get off the ground).

Click to expand...

Once again, you are incorrect. While this may be true with some schools there are a number of schools where this is unconditionally false. You have NO basis to back you claim. Whatever your agenda is, there is no foundation to it.

mentulbloc said:

Carribean schools have actually caught onto this and are paying community hospitals buckets of money to ensure their students have a spot. In turn the hospitals respond favorably to this $$$$ and want to keep the students happy, ie meetings with the chairs, structured didactics etc...

In short, if you can go MD, go MD. Lets face it, the upper half of the class probably could have done just as well at a good MD school, but b/c of either lack of emotional maturity at the time, poor advice, a subpar MCAT score, or a couple B's in undergrad b/c of too many happy hours we ended up as DO. Though i think the first and second years are very similar, the 3rd and 4th years greatly greatly greatly differ.

Click to expand...

I am not going to pull punches however I felt that I needed to chime in. First of all, DO NOT lump me into your "b/c of too many happy hours we ended up as DO". The minute I found out about D.O., I knew that it worked with what I believed and still believe medicine to be. If you are unhappy because you went DO, then leave. No one is making you stay. This is America and as such as have free will and freedom. So exercise your freedom and leave whatever school you may be at.

Second of all. I am at a school where we have excellent hospitals to rotate through. Our clinicians teach us well and not all of them are DO's.

As a DO student, I do not feel as if I am second fiddle to an MD student. I am an equal. And if you do not feel that way, you have every right to, but do not ever tell me that I went DO because I felt that I was second rate and could not get into an MD school. Frankly sir/madam, I find it insulting.

I urge you to think carefully about what you want your lot in life to be. From your post, it does not seem as if you want to be a DO. There is nothing stopping you from leaving.