Is this all just a crap shoot?

Yes, the whole thing is a crapshoot.

RunnerMD said:

Yes, the whole thing is a crapshoot.

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No, it's not a crapshoot, but it IS highly subjective. And the problem is, we don't know what all of the rules of the game are, so it's hard to be a strategic player. All you can do is make yourself as strong of an applicant as you can, and hope you have what the school of your dreams is looking for in their applicants.

Tripp said:

So is the whole med school applying thing just a big crapshoot? I thought I was a great applicant according to all my stats and I thought I interview well but I've only had one acceptance 5 waitlists and one rejection and the acceptance was to my last choice safety school. I have a 3.75 gpa and 38 mcats with 2 years research experience from a good college in a chemistry department that's considered one of the best in the country. Is anyone else in this position?

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There are even more factors than the ones you listed. But I'm not sure how someone with an acceptance and 5 waitlists sees it as a crapshoot -- it's the folks with good stats who get nil who should be bumming. How was your PS -- was it compelling? How were your LORs? Why do you think you interview well (Many people misjudge this)? Did you have any clinical experience (more important than research at many places)? How many schools did you apply to -- just 7? Were they all competitive places? If so you probably got a bit cocky, but still got one acceptance and 5 waitlists, a pretty nice haul. Actually, your results are not all that inconsistent with what one would expect with high numerical stats but perhaps nothing really non-unique that set you apart. Congrats on your acceptance and good luck with the waitlists.

Tripp said:

So is the whole med school applying thing just a big crapshoot? I thought I was a great applicant according to all my stats and I thought I interview well but I've only had one acceptance 5 waitlists and one rejection and the acceptance was to my last choice safety school. I have a 3.75 gpa and 38 mcats with 2 years research experience from a good college in a chemistry department that's considered one of the best in the country. Is anyone else in this position?

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It's a crapshoot if you're a anywhere from a normal to a strong candidate academically. For exceptional academic candidates it's not a crapshoot.

It's a crapshoot if you're anywhere from weak to normal in terms of patient contact and clinical experience. If you have strong contact and clinical experience, it is not a crapshoot.

The best way to make it NOT a crapshoot is to distinguish yourself. I know you've head this a bunch of times but you have to understand that EVERYONE has done pretty much the same as you have. When people say distinguish yourself, they mean: start a business, go to the Peace Corps, write a published novel, save someone's life, teach in a third world country, anything that is not one of the following: good grades, research, volunteering at a hospital, president of ____ club. Just about everyone who is applying has all of those, so go for the unique.

Sorry for the lecture.

Tripp said:

So is the whole med school applying thing just a big crapshoot? I thought I was a great applicant according to all my stats and I thought I interview well but I've only had one acceptance 5 waitlists and one rejection and the acceptance was to my last choice safety school. I have a 3.75 gpa and 38 mcats with 2 years research experience from a good college in a chemistry department that's considered one of the best in the country. Is anyone else in this position?

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Do you have a lot of clinical experience. I'm going to take a guess here, but if your LORs and essays are also great, then the only thing that seems to be holding you back is lack of clinical work of any form. Perhaps if you had more volunteering, and also more unique experiences like traveling/study abroad or some sort of hobby that you were real good at those things would have helped you better.

nmnrraven said:

It's a crapshoot if you're a anywhere from a normal to a strong candidate academically. For exceptional academic candidates it's not a crapshoot.

It's a crapshoot if you're anywhere from weak to normal in terms of patient contact and clinical experience. If you have strong contact and clinical experience, it is not a crapshoot.

The best way to make it NOT a crapshoot is to distinguish yourself. I know you've head this a bunch of times but you have to understand that EVERYONE has done pretty much the same as you have. When people say distinguish yourself, they mean: start a business, go to the Peace Corps, write a published novel, save someone's life, teach in a third world country, anything that is not one of the following: good grades, research, volunteering at a hospital, president of ____ club. Just about everyone who is applying has all of those, so go for the unique.

Sorry for the lecture.

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GOOD POST!!!

Law2Doc said:

Actually, your results are not all that inconsistent with what one would expect with high numerical stats but perhaps nothing really non-unique that set you apart.

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Ouch...OP you did fine in the process...you are in hold that seat and wait for something you feel is a better fit, those lists are going to start to see some major movement.

Tripp said:

So is the whole med school applying thing just a big crapshoot? I thought I was a great applicant according to all my stats and I thought I interview well but I've only had one acceptance 5 waitlists and one rejection and the acceptance was to my last choice safety school. I have a 3.75 gpa and 38 mcats with 2 years research experience from a good college in a chemistry department that's considered one of the best in the country. Is anyone else in this position?

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Maybe you weren't enough of a prick to fit in with the students at those top schools.

Take it as a compliment

P.S. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A "SAFETY" MEDICAL SCHOOL

Tripp said:

So is the whole med school applying thing just a big crapshoot? I thought I was a great applicant according to all my stats and I thought I interview well but I've only had one acceptance 5 waitlists and one rejection and the acceptance was to my last choice safety school. I have a 3.75 gpa and 38 mcats with 2 years research experience from a good college in a chemistry department that's considered one of the best in the country. Is anyone else in this position?

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I have a very similar profile and can vouch for the fact that it can be a lot worse. However, all the blame resides on the other end of the looking glass. I applied late to a poorly researched selection of schools, didn't get terrific letters, and had minuscule clinical exposure.

If you plan on reapplying in June, it's probably going to be hard to secure anything other than bitch work between now and then; at least that's my current experience. Prospective employers don't like to hear that you could leave in a day's notice after getting that elusive phone call, nor that you'd have to miss several weeks of work for interviews the following cycle. Chances are you'll get off at least one of 5 waitlists. Take your best acceptance and get stoked about becoming a doctor. I'd give 100 grand to get in anywhere at this point.

I'm trying to find some method to the randomness as well. I am in a very similar position to the OP - one acceptance at my last choice, four waitlists and one upcoming interview (at my first choice). I thought I would be in pretty good shape going in - slightly lower GPA than the OP and slightly higher MCAT. I also have strong research that resulted in a first author publication in a top journal. I wonder if the hitch for many such candidates are weak letters of recommendation. I've heard that lukewarm letters of rec could be application killers and I submitted two from undergrad professors who didn't know me very well four years ago when I was still in school, let alone last year when I asked them to recommend me.

What makes the selection seem particularly random is where I have had success. I received interviews at 3 of the 6 top 10 schools to which I applied and only one out of 12 or so schools ranked between 11 and 50. Some people have suggested that mid-tier schools don't interview applicants they perceive to be top applicants, but I have trouble believeing that is the case for me. I wonder if lots of research makes applications more competitive at the "top" schools, but doesn't carry much weight at less research-oriented institutions, and if you're not stellar in other respects, you may fall between the crack.

Anyway, I wish the OP good luck with the waitlists. I hope they really do move as much as people tell me!

Tripp said:

So is the whole med school applying thing just a big crapshoot? I thought I was a great applicant according to all my stats and I thought I interview well but I've only had one acceptance 5 waitlists and one rejection and the acceptance was to my last choice safety school. I have a 3.75 gpa and 38 mcats with 2 years research experience from a good college in a chemistry department that's considered one of the best in the country. Is anyone else in this position?

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I have a strange feeling that your "last choice safety school" may be somebody's dream school.

You are in. Don't take it for granted. There are many people who don't get in anywhere. Maybe you'll get in on the waitlists.

It is hard to read all of these "I have x GPA, and y MCAT, and z years of research. I should be a shoe-in." Take some advice from someone who reads applicants file and interviews potential students. MEDICINE IS MORE THAN NUMBERS.

Research is great...but what it is really good for is showing you that you don't want to go into research. I would have killed myself had I not gotten into med school and had to spend time in a lab. I was very honest about my feelings about this when asked about my fairly interesting phys reseach I did as an undergrad.

To be completely honest...almost every interview and committee I have sat in on (once you get an interview) is more concerned w/ who you are. Great you have all this research, but you are the most god-awful, boring person = Reject/Waitlist. Come on people...you have to have a little "fire in the belly" if you are going to impress anyone anywhere.

Rant over...I just want to see some more interesting people at interviews. Good luck to you all.

nmnrraven said:

The best way to make it NOT a crapshoot is to distinguish yourself. I know you've head this a bunch of times but you have to understand that EVERYONE has done pretty much the same as you have. When people say distinguish yourself, they mean: start a business, go to the Peace Corps, write a published novel, save someone's life, teach in a third world country, anything that is not one of the following: good grades, research, volunteering at a hospital, president of ____ club. Just about everyone who is applying has all of those, so go for the unique.

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whoa, are you serious? i taught English in Sri Lanka for 16 weeks

Krazykritter said:

Rant over...I just want to see some more interesting people at interviews. Good luck to you all.

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surely there must be some interesting people that have left an impresssion on you. care to share some?

MDdream said:

surely there must be some interesting people that have left an impresssion on you. care to share some?

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Someone who taught English in Sri Lanka for 16 weeks.

Yes, it is a crap shoot. I was saying that for a long time but no one believed me. I got rejected by the schools on my level plus I also applied to pathetic MD schools (lowest 10 in country) which I was way way above them (3.73 GPA 31 MCAT, research, biochem. major etc.) and I got rejected by all the MD schools so you should feel happy that you got accepted to one.

I personally think it has to do with UNDERHANDED tactics in which inside people get in, affiliated schools get in, in state people get in, some minorities get in, and the other 30% duke it out and compete for a few narrow spots. Plus there is weird acceptance tactics, like an english major with a higher average than a chemistry major is put on a higher level as him/her (even though Chemistry is much more difficult ) and they discriminate agianst city or state colleges which are usually much more difficult than private colleges.

Also, the interview process is a joke to cover up these illegal tactics. Trust me, I talked to those who know people on the admissions boards and this is what goes on. The whole process is a scam and the sooner you realize that, the better off you will be.

Tripp said:

To be completely honest...almost every interview and committee I have sat in on (once you get an interview) is more concerned w/ who you are. Great you have all this research, but you are the most god-awful, boring person = Reject/Waitlist. Come on people...you have to have a little "fire in the belly" if you are going to impress anyone anywhere.




So it seems to me almost that med schools want people who don't spend they're free time having fun with their friends and partying at college. They want people who spend all their time thinking about getting into med school and thinking up ways to impress schools. Personally I'm glad I didn't spend a lot of time trying to impress people. If someone has something that impresses med schools and they just happened to stumble across it great, but it seems to me that the numbers should have an equal share in that, like grad schools or law schools. and also I don't really think a single 5 or 6 hour interview is going to really give you a good view of a person's personality.

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If you already know that it's not a crap shoot and that you didn't get into those schools because you didn't try hard enough, then why make a thread claiming that it's all a crap shoot?

It's a crapshoot. If we want to get real serious it is more like playing the stock market. You can do a lot of things to improve your odds, but in the end, you have to get a person to vouche for you and say "Yes, they belong here." There is no rubrick. I would quit worrying though, an MD is an MD is an MD. Going to Harvard isn't a pre-req for winning a Nobel... you could go to Duke to

Tripp said:

So it seems to me almost that med schools want people who don't spend they're free time having fun with their friends and partying at college. They want people who spend all their time thinking about getting into med school and thinking up ways to impress schools. Personally I'm glad I didn't spend a lot of time trying to impress people. If someone has something that impresses med schools and they just happened to stumble across it great, but it seems to me that the numbers should have an equal share in that, like grad schools or law schools. and also I don't really think a single 5 or 6 hour interview is going to really give you a good view of a person's personality.

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That's what a reasonable person would think. Ask anyone off of SDN/the premed track and they'll have the same feelings. It's a weird process. This soft factor craze might be just a phase. I wonder what med schools think when many of those "humanistic, altruists" and "research heavy, thirst for knowledge" admits run off into "lifestyle" specialties...

Tripp said:

So is the whole med school applying thing just a big crapshoot? I thought I was a great applicant according to all my stats and I thought I interview well but I've only had one acceptance 5 waitlists and one rejection and the acceptance was to my last choice safety school. I have a 3.75 gpa and 38 mcats with 2 years research experience from a good college in a chemistry department that's considered one of the best in the country. Is anyone else in this position?

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stop whining...at least you got one acceptance LOOK AT THE BRIGHT SIDE OF LIFE!!

2Xtrouble2X said:

stop whining...at least you got one acceptance LOOK AT THE BRIGHT SIDE OF LIFE!!

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Exactly. That's most important. It really doesn't matter where you go. You'll have an MD if you don't screw up the next 4 years!!!

MDdream said:

whoa, are you serious? i taught English in Sri Lanka for 16 weeks

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I am absolutely serious. Teaching English in Sri Lanka for 16 weeks is a fantastic thing. One way to make this look even better is to publish something about your work there. This will require a lot of work but man oh man will it grab some attention. Although, you should be certain that teaching English in Sri Lanka for 16 weeks is a major way to set yourself apart from many applicants. Good work. Now make sure you have the GPA, MCAT and exposure to patients and you're golden.

yeah i think it is a crapshoot.. i know someone who got into northwestern with a <3.65 and 31 mcat from a state school who took a year off (more time to study for the mcat), non URM

::bitter::

Tripp said:

a single 5 or 6 hour interview is going to really give you a good view of a person's personality.

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try 1 hr at most, unless maybe its for mdphd. the answer to this thread is that its all politics and vested interests of certain powers that be. whenever things appear irrational not only on the surface but upon deeper inspection, the answer to the mystery usually lies behind closed doors somewhere. Many might say the same about certain wars (not necessarily me). So, what you have is a lot of premeds (and others) being fooled while a select few puppetmasters surreptitiously pull the wool over everyone's eyes. And they're doing a good job of it.

Data show that subjective admissions as they are conducted in the US (for med schools and colleges) are no better and likely worse than admissions as conducted elsewhere, as well as admissions as they were once conducted in the USA in the past. When you have data that can only be countered by prose (of premeds, adcoms and administrators+bureuaucrats), you can be sure mischief is afoot.

swifty100850 said:

That's what a reasonable person would think. Ask anyone off of SDN/the premed track and they'll have the same feelings. It's a weird process. This soft factor craze might be just a phase. I wonder what med schools think when many of those "humanistic, altruists" and "research heavy, thirst for knowledge" admits run off into "lifestyle" specialties...

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All a charade for some undercurrents that lie deeper. So all of what I've said--paranoid, conspiracy theorish? Yes. But I'd rather that than have wool over my eyes.

yanky5 said:

I got rejected by the schools on my level plus I also applied to pathetic MD schools (lowest 10 in country)

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Hmm...your attitude couldn't have possibly been a problem, could it?

yanky5 said:

I personally think it has to do with UNDERHANDED tactics in which inside people get in, affiliated schools get in, in state people get in

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Those underhanded bastards. Following state mandated funding legislation and allowing a certain number of in-state students. Following the law -- That's got to be illegal, right?

yanky5 said:

some minorities get in,

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Wouldn't it be more underhanded if no minorities got in? Every school at every level shows preference to URM applicants. At some point, you're just going to have to deal with that.

yanky5 said:

Plus there is weird acceptance tactics, like an english major with a higher average than a chemistry major is put on a higher level as him/her (even though Chemistry is much more difficult )

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Maybe that's because they value the English major's ability to make verbs and subjects agree.

Seriously though, if there was some sort of sliding GPA scale used for every different major, you'd probably be on here complaining about that.

yanky5 said:

and they discriminate agianst city or state colleges which are usually much more difficult than private colleges.

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That's a huge, and pretty dang hard to prove, generalization.

yanky5 said:

Also, the interview process is a joke to cover up these illegal tactics.

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If you really think they are "illegal", please sue. I'd love to see this case.

yanky5 said:

Trust me, I talked to those who know people on the admissions boards and this is what goes on.

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Yeah...cuz you really need an inside source to come up with a deep post like yours.

yanky5 said:

The whole process is a scam and the sooner you realize that, the better off you will be.

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And by "better off" you mean rejected from everywhere, like you?

I bet you were a lovely interviewee.

Great post by ND2005...it is exactly the reason I decided to make my post about how people think they are shoe-ins. I know I wouldn't want to have yanky5 as a physician. How many people even care, or have even considered, what score your physician got on the MCAT? The interview is for evaluating your potential as a physician. Your score get you in the door and can push you into an acceptance if you have a borderline interview.

ND2005 said:

I bet you were a lovely interviewee.

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Hahaha! I can't stop laughing at this thought.

Krazykritter said:

Great post by ND2005...it is exactly the reason I decided to make my post about how people think they are shoe-ins. I know I wouldn't want to have yanky5 as a physician. How many people even care, or have even considered, what score your physician got on the MCAT? The interview is for evaluating your potential as a physician. Your score get you in the door and can push you into an acceptance if you have a borderline interview.

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I think that thinking you're a "shoe-in" is one of the biggest mistakes you can make in this process.

And I'll admit to having made it myself -- when I got my MCAT score, I was like "F*** yeah, I'm the man" for a week or two.

But then I came back down to earth, and realized there is a lot more to it than that.

Is the process hard to understand? Certainly.

Is it perfect? Certainly not.

Is there anything I can do about it right now, other than try to be the best applicant I can be? No.

nmnrraven said:

I am absolutely serious. Teaching English in Sri Lanka for 16 weeks is a fantastic thing. One way to make this look even better is to publish something about your work there. This will require a lot of work but man oh man will it grab some attention. Although, you should be certain that teaching English in Sri Lanka for 16 weeks is a major way to set yourself apart from many applicants. Good work. Now make sure you have the GPA, MCAT and exposure to patients and you're golden.

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how would i go about doing this??

Tripp said:

So it seems to me almost that med schools want people who don't spend they're free time having fun with their friends and partying at college. They want people who spend all their time thinking about getting into med school and thinking up ways to impress schools. Personally I'm glad I didn't spend a lot of time trying to impress people. If someone has something that impresses med schools and they just happened to stumble across it great, but it seems to me that the numbers should have an equal share in that, like grad schools or law schools. and also I don't really think a single 5 or 6 hour interview is going to really give you a good view of a person's personality.

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Actually, med schools want people who impress them by doing what they are actually interested in doing. If you are the type who wants to spend all their free time partying, then yes, you are probably going to have to go out of your way to do something else. But there are actually people out there who think that, say, Peace Corps is a cool thing to do, notwithstanding how it looks. I know quite a few people who do it who have no intention of ever pursuing med school. So med schools want to try and find at least some of the non-fakes. And thus LORs, the interview, the PS loom large.
As lots of folks have been saying in this thread, while there are people who are probably shoe ins at schools, you cannot tell that from just the numerical stats. I have come across folks with higher stats than the OP, (including the research), who got no love at med schools -- because they could not come across as interesting or dynamic. Don't assume because your stats are higher than that of your "safety" school that you aren't actually jackpot lucky to have snagged at least that one. Congrats.

ND2005 said:

Maybe that's because they value the English major's ability to make verbs and subjects agree.

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Speaking of proper english - the phrase is "shoo-in," not "shoe-in." While I'm at it, "there" is different from "their" and "they're." They're homonyms.

RxnMan said:

Speaking of proper english - the phrase is "shoo-in," not "shoe-in." .

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You are probably right about the shoo - in being proper. But I like the other, wrong though it may be, as it suggests getting your shoe in the door...

I agree that it is a crapshoot, but the metaphor needs a little extending to be really true. The crapshoot part comes along after you get interviews, in my opinion. So, it's like the busiest craps table known to man and you have to impress the bouncers to get up there and shoot, otherwise you just end up being part of the spectator crowd. Then once you get up to the table (interviews) you might have some luck and get several chances to not crap out. Or, if you're a high roller, you will probably get taken to the special table that does not have a huge crowd fighting over a limited number of spots. In the end you just blow on the dice and hope for a 7... or 11.
How's that for an extended metaphor?

Tripp said:

I'm just saying it seems to me like the process could be a little more like the working world or like the grad school world or anywhere else where "being special" is great and all but if you are qualified and if you are someone people are going to be able to work with you'll get in or get hired ahead of someone with a really special experience with less qualifications who people can work with easily. This is why I think it's a crapshoot. Because nothing else in the world is really like it. Everything else is organized in a rational way where you can look at other applicants and rank them somewhat reasonably. Med school it's not quite like that and it's just wierd to me. My friends going to grad school look at my stats and can't understand why I'm not accepted everywhere, because they look at themselves with similar outstanding stats and get in everywhere. med school admissions is just weird compared to any other application process and I don't really get it. That's why i think it's a crapshoot.

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I'm not sure it's all that different than all working world interview processes. I've certainly worked at places and interviewed at places that, after screening tons of resumes of qualified individuals, interviewed many dozens of people for a job -- with probably a lower percentage acceptance than a lot of med schools. In eg law, consulting, or other business jobs, you don't usually get far just on numerical stats, nor will you in many other aspects of life, and so it makes sense to me that med schools just partially look at these. Other than a few graduate or other professional school tracks, you are hardly ever going to find an application process that is not at least partially, if not largely, subjective, and how you sell yourself, and your experiences and non-academic interests will always count a great deal.
But that doesn't mean it's a crapshoot. There is a methodology. Your numerical stats just don't happen to be as large a part of it as you might like.

Prospero said:

I agree that it is a crapshoot, but the metaphor needs a little extending to be really true. The crapshoot part comes along after you get interviews, in my opinion. So, it's like the busiest craps table known to man and you have to impress the bouncers to get up there and shoot, otherwise you just end up being part of the spectator crowd. Then once you get up to the table (interviews) you might have some luck and get several chances to not crap out. Or, if you're a high roller, you will probably get taken to the special table that does not have a huge crowd fighting over a limited number of spots. In the end you just blow on the dice and hope for a 7... or 11.
How's that for an extended metaphor?

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No - unlike craps, at this stage it is not purely a matter of luck of the dice. There is some skill involved, and there are better and poor players -- which cannot happen in craps. Blackjack maybe...

Tripp said:

I just want to explain what I wrote earlier. I didn't mean that I'm just a big partier. I do a lot of stuff that I find interesting that would be interesting for admissions committees, including music, martial arts and heading up a community service club, and some amatuer archaeology through one of my profs and I do all of this because I think it's fun. It just so happens that I didn't have time or want to take 2 years off to join the peace corps (which I think would be one of the most awesome experiences ever) or the time to study abroad because of course requirements or the chance to write a book about some amazing experience i had because by chance, the experience didn't happen. I mean I have the great recs and the clinical experience and I'm a really personable guy who gets along with everyone and is great in interviews according to some of the interviewers who have said so. Also for the original post, I wasn't really complaining. I know that an MD is an MD and I know that I'll like whereever I go and I really appreciate that I'm lucky to be in anywhere. I'm just saying it seems to me like the process could be a little more like the working world or like the grad school world or anywhere else where "being special" is great and all but if you are qualified and if you are someone people are going to be able to work with you'll get in or get hired ahead of someone with a really special experience with less qualifications who people can work with easily. This is why I think it's a crapshoot. Because nothing else in the world is really like it. Everything else is organized in a rational way where you can look at other applicants and rank them somewhat reasonably. Med school it's not quite like that and it's just wierd to me. My friends going to grad school look at my stats and can't understand why I'm not accepted everywhere, because they look at themselves with similar outstanding stats and get in everywhere. med school admissions is just weird compared to any other application process and I don't really get it. That's why i think it's a crapshoot.

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Keep in mind there are more then 40,000 people applying and roughly 16,000 spots to fill only. T his means that there are going to be a lot of qualified people and not everyone will be able to get in. So they need other things to look at to set people apart and decide who to get in.

Tripp said:

I just want to explain what I wrote earlier. I didn't mean that I'm just a big partier. I do a lot of stuff that I find interesting that would be interesting for admissions committees, including music, martial arts and heading up a community service club, and some amatuer archaeology through one of my profs and I do all of this because I think it's fun. It just so happens that I didn't have time or want to take 2 years off to join the peace corps (which I think would be one of the most awesome experiences ever) or the time to study abroad because of course requirements or the chance to write a book about some amazing experience i had because by chance, the experience didn't happen. I mean I have the great recs and the clinical experience and I'm a really personable guy who gets along with everyone and is great in interviews according to some of the interviewers who have said so. Also for the original post, I wasn't really complaining. I know that an MD is an MD and I know that I'll like whereever I go and I really appreciate that I'm lucky to be in anywhere. I'm just saying it seems to me like the process could be a little more like the working world or like the grad school world or anywhere else where "being special" is great and all but if you are qualified and if you are someone people are going to be able to work with you'll get in or get hired ahead of someone with a really special experience with less qualifications who people can work with easily. This is why I think it's a crapshoot. Because nothing else in the world is really like it. Everything else is organized in a rational way where you can look at other applicants and rank them somewhat reasonably. Med school it's not quite like that and it's just wierd to me. My friends going to grad school look at my stats and can't understand why I'm not accepted everywhere, because they look at themselves with similar outstanding stats and get in everywhere. med school admissions is just weird compared to any other application process and I don't really get it. That's why i think it's a crapshoot.

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In this profession (and in many others), social skills is just as important as numerical stats.

In grad school, however, you don't need that much social skills. As long as you're a machine (churning out paper after paper), you'll do fine. That's why people applying to grad programs can get into many more schools based on good stats alone. Not to mention that competition for grad school is A LOT lower than that for med school.

happydays said:

In this profession (and in many others), social skills is just as important as numerical stats.

In grad school, however, you don't need that much social skills. As long as you're a machine (churning out paper after paper), you'll do fine. That's why people applying to grad programs can get into many more schools based on good stats alone. Not to mention that competition for grad school is A LOT lower than that for med school.

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Getting into grad school is MUCH easier than getting into med school. Getting OUT of grad school (with a degree), however, is NOT very easy.

QofQuimica said:

Getting into grad school is MUCH easier than getting into med school. Getting OUT of grad school (with a degree), however, is NOT very easy.

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This is true. Grad school is often it's own weed-out mechanism.

QofQuimica said:

Getting into grad school is MUCH easier than getting into med school. Getting OUT of grad school (with a degree), however, is NOT very easy.

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It's like the mafia. (Just when you think you get out, they suck you back in).

Law2Doc said:

It's like the mafia. (Just when you think you get out, they suck you back in).

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I think the mafia is easier to understand than the grad school. I am STILL finding out about double top secret graduation requirements, including "fees," that I swear weren't there just yesterday....

QofQuimica said:

Getting into grad school is MUCH easier than getting into med school. Getting OUT of grad school (with a degree), however, is NOT very easy.

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True. It's the school that doesn't end, (sing it with me now) yes it goes on and on my friends. Some people, started grad school without knowing what it is, and they'll continue their research just because it's the school that doesn't end. Yes it goes on and on my friends....

happydays said:

True. It's the school that doesn't end, (sing it with me now) yes it goes on and on my friends. Some people, started grad school without knowing what it is, and they'll continue their research just because it's the school that doesn't end. Yes it goes on and on my friends....

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Very true. You do a masters and then you think you're done. But then your advisor realizes that you churn out papers and are a good worker (and they don't want to train a replacement). So they ask you to stay and do a PhD. Then a post-doc. Before you know it, you've spent all of your 20's in a dark basement, inhaling noxious chemicals, and are in the strange position of being underpaid yet overqualified for every job out there...except being a professor. And then you get your first grad student...and the cycle goes on...

I concur. It is a crapshoot. And really, isn't the notion that the more "interesting" applicant is the better applicant fundamentally flawed? Just because a person wrote a book, is a national athlete, or worked in the Peace Corps for two years, how will this make them a more successful student, intern, or physician? Are they less likely to be sued for malpractice because they were a champion cheerleader? Are they more likely to invent a new surgical instrument because they spent 2 months working in Tanzania?

The med schools want the best applicants they can possibly get for their class. Do they make mistakes? Definitely. There are probably physicians from top schools who get sued, make mistakes, become addicted, become depressed, become bad doctors. They also probably want the most diverse applicants they can get for their class. The fact is that the number of applicants with high stats is huge. Roughly 5% of all MCAT testers, out of N=66,000, will score 35+, meaning that there are 3,300 people with high scores. The top ten schools will probably only be able to accomodate 1,200 applicants at most. Which is to say, that even with high numbers, the schools can afford to be exceptionally selective. Even with a 38 and a 3.8, there's going to be at least several hundred applicants that apply to their school with identical stats. So then the question, unfortunately, falls on us. Why should we pick you? At which case, acceptance becomes almost a function of mere probability. It's like going into a supermarket and deciding which bag of doritos you would like to eat. There are probably 100 on the shelf, you can only reasonably consume one bag, if you have no reason to pick one equally good bag over another. The only exception is gimicks and defects. A bag of doritos that looks like its been stepped on will be passed over although it probably contains the same flavor and nutritional goodness of any other bag. A bag with an extra shiny toy in side my be picked up by the kid over all others.

So I guess our objective is clear, we must become like the box of cereal that has better marketing. We must be like the pokemon card - no actual useful function, probably not any better than any other card game (ala magic the gathering), but made to be desireable. We must be the box of cereal that contains an extra offer for a toy, decoder ring or bobble-head, so that people will choose us. That's the game. Med schools all want to recruit, but they don't really need to. Play the game. Life's tough. It's filled with winners and losers. Time to make sure we're worth it.

swifty100850 said:

Someone who taught English in Sri Lanka for 16 weeks.

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That's great that you were able to do that. But, many college kids need to work in their spare time (and adcomms seem increasingly empathetic to that). How much was your flight to Sri Lanka, round trip? Did you get paid or was it an "exotic" volunteer gig?
Again, it's really cool you were able to do that, but many would consider that kind of a luxury (sleeping in a tent or not sleeping in a tent. lol) versus what some students must do out of necessity.

happydays said:

True. It's the school that doesn't end, (sing it with me now) yes it goes on and on my friends. Some people, started grad school without knowing what it is, and they'll continue their research just because it's the school that doesn't end. Yes it goes on and on my friends....

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Hahah! I love it!
I am taking the liberty of rearranging things a bit to make it more singable, however...

It it the school that doesn't end; yes it goes on and on, my friend. Some people started grad school without knowing what it was, and they'll continue research there forever, just because... it is the school that doesn't end... ect.

There you have it, ladies and gentlemen: the newest spoof song about to sweep the nation.

From my experience, when people say you are a "shoo-in" for med school, they don't mean you will be guaranteed a spot, it means if you apply high and low, you will be guaranteed a spot somewhere. That means someone with excellent stats such as the OP will be a shoo-in for a med school if he/she applied to top schools and lower-tiered schools and applied to a lot of them. I find that some of my friends with really good stats think they are 'shoo-ins' because they passed the 32+ and 3.6+ borderline, so they apply to all top med schools, and then find themselves waitlisted and rejected. Well, most people who have top stats aren't shoo-in for top med schools, I think those group of people are a selective elite onto themselves. Just my two cents.