Medical School Admissions: How can I improve my chances?

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SarSun23 said:
I am currently writing secondary essays. With regard to the schools that only have one essay with the general "tell the admissions committee something about yourself" topic, would it be best to:
1. Write about a experiences that are not in depth in my personal statement. I have plenty.
OR
2. Would this be an appropriate place to discuss what I am doing with the year off (working for an NGO in Africa)?

In particular, I am looking at Baylor's app question: Indicate any special experiences, unusual factors or other information you feel would be helpful in evaluating you, including, but not limited to, education, employment, extracurricular activities, prevailing over adversity.
You may expand upon but not repeat AMCAS application information.
2000 character limit.
Thanks!
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I agree with Madame that you should mention what you plan to do with your year off, but you have to be careful about writing too much about what you are going to do as opposed to what you have already done. This question is asking you to write about an experience that you have already had. It's a good idea to maybe write a paragraph or so about your plans for the year off. However, you should use most of the space to talk about one of your experiences that you haven't talked about much elsewhere on your application.
 
Hi everyone,
I'm a new moderator for admissions, a third year medical student who just spent a year on my school's committee as a voting member. I have special expertise in non-traditional students and students with challenging undergraduate records.

Standard Questions.
1. Why did you choose your field of study?
I'm not sure why I wanted to be a physician back in high school, if in fact I really did. I started college as a pre-med, but quickly gave up after nearly failing organic chemistry and calculus. After sliding through two successful but un-looked-for careers, I went back to school to get credentialed in my second career. I did well in courses I had really bombed as an undergraduate in the 80s, and decided that as long as I was paddling my canoe, I may as well be paddling it toward a long-held goal. I'm fascinated by the doctor-patient relationship, and like the triple aspect of the career: patient care, scientific advancement and teaching.

2. Where do you see yourself in 10 years?
In practice. Possibly emergency medicine, or anesthesia. I'm just starting third year and leaving my options open.

3. What advice do you have for students planning to enter the field of medicine?
Be sincere, get some good experiences, study hard, and play the game. It takes both, I think. Good luck!
 
ubermu said:
I'm currently on two US waitlists but things aren't looking good, and I'm considering going to Sackler in Tel Aviv, Israel.
What I fear most going to Sackler is the possibility of not getting into a super competitive residency. They placed an optho and ortho last year, so it seems there's a chance of placing well, but I really don't want to limit my future options.
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What will limit your future options is you, not the school you attend. Work hard, score high, and consider doing a rotation at your first choice institution early in your 4th year ("an audition").

If you have an offer of admission, take it. Become proficient in Hebrew, if you are not already, so that you do well in the 3rd year clinical rotations as your letters of recommendation for residency will depend on that performance.
 
best172 said:
Dear SDN Mentors,

I was wondering if you could help me decide whether or not I should apply this year. This has been bothering me for a while and holding me back from concentrating on secondaries.

My MCAT scores from June 15th was 32M. (PS 13, VR 8, BS 11 and M in writing) I am very worried about the low verbal amd writing scores. English is my second language. Do medical schools take this into consideration?

I did research for the last two years at college for credit and graduated with distinction.
I volunteered in some non profit organizations and shadowed doctors for a short period of time. (Each only for 3 weeks) However, I do not have any hand-on clinical experiences.
My cum GPA is 3.664, Science GPA is about 3.55 with an upward trend.

Am I competitive to apply this year? If not, what should I do to strengthen my application? If I am competitive, what tier do I have a chance at?

Thank you a lot.
I greatly appreciate your help.
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Yes, I think you should apply. 32 is a very good MCAT score, your science subscores are both excellent, and 8 is an average VR score. Your GPA is a little low but not horrible.

You should see your premed advisor to get help in deciding where to apply. Good luck.
 
bademiss said:
Hello,
I'm an african american student at University of Houston. I have a cum GPA of 3.15 and science 3.5. My MCAT is 31. I have done about a semester worth of HIV/AIDS research and have even volunteered in AIDS clinics in Ethiopia. I don't have a lot of other volunteer hours. I am planning on applying to all the school in texas...

UT houston
UT SW
Texas Tech
UTMB
Baylor (right)

Do I have a chance or is it better for me to take some more courses to raise my GPA and get some more volunteer hours in?
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Sorry, but we can't tell you what your chances are. You should make an appointment to talk to your premedical advisor.
 
America1 said:
24 yrs old
31 MCAT
3.04 BCPM
3.1 science
3.3 overall
Lots of volunteering.
Worked as a donor coordinator for tissue bank, had to interview family members of recently deceased patients, assisted on tissue extraction.
Currently enrolled in one year MS, application is out to schools as we speak.
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See post above.
 
MDpride said:
I am a Permanent Resident from India with BAchelors in Engineering.
I will have taken 90 hrs of classes at U.S. college by the end of FALL.
So far I have 3.8 GPA in 76 hrs of classes. ( 17hrs /semester including summer so far)
I started shadowing in MAY.

I am giving MCAT on AUG 20 for 2008 entering batch.

Will Medical school care about my engineering degree?
Engineering degree is equivalent to U.S. after evaluation with GPA of 2.47.
There is no GPA system in India.
I would like them to overlook Engg. degree.
My parents work as MAID . will that hurt my application to medical school?
Mu uncle is Physician.
Thank You
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A GPA of 2.47 is far below the standards for any American medical school, but I don't know how adcomms will deal with it since it's a foreign degree and you have much stronger college-level work in the US. You should contact the schools where you want to apply and discuss this issue with them.
 
soxman said:
How would med schools look at my application if I took my prerequisites at a community college but did good on all of them? One of the reasons I did my prereqs at a community college was to save money. How do you think this would be looked at by med schools?
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I think there is no one answer that we can give you that applies to all schools. You should contact the schools where you want to apply and discuss this with them.
 
Bnmakr1 said:
Hi, thanks for responding in advance. I started college in 2001 and through 2003 I did very poorly (around a 1.5 GPA 🙁). I took a two year break and started school again in 2005. My GPA, including my original college experiences, is now a 2.5. Getting it from the 1.5 to the 2.5 was tough and I expect it to be around a 2.9-3.1 when I graduate. I know this will hinder me in getting into a MD school. What are my options (Post-Bac, Grad School) to increase my chances besides MCAT, work experience, research, and volunteering? I'm a PCT now and going to start volunteering soon.

I was reading the previous reply #20 and it said "Qualitatively, it is unlikely to make a big difference unless the Orgo & Genetics courses were taken years ago (>7 yrs) and you can write it off to immaturity." What exactly does this mean exactly?

Thanks again.
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I can't speak for Madame, but my understanding is that adcoms give a little more consideration to improved grades when the two classes are separated by quite a bit of time. A C in a class one semester followed by an A in the same class the next semester is different than a C in a class followed by an A in the same class taken seven years later. In the second scenario, the C can be explained by "immaturity". The first scenario can't be justified that way.
 
EyeballLove said:
Hello. Thank you guys for taking the time to read our questions and answering them with as many details as possible🙂

One of the schools I'm applying to this year specifically states on their admission website that a recommendation letter is required from every lab/research experience. The school only allows a maximum of 6 recommendation letters from each applicant.

I e-mailed the admission office asking if I would be disqualified from applying to the school since I opted not to submit a letter from one research lab.

I have worked in three different research labs. Two in college (at two different 4-year universities), and the third one is a full-time research position. I'm submitting a letter from the first lab and third lab I've worked in. The reason I choose not to submit a letter from the second lab is because the PI never got to know me. When I joined the lab, there were only two other lab technicians and I working in the lab. Over the course of an entire school year, there were two other college students that volunteered in our lab (I had a paid position because of my prior research experiences); although I became very proficient at carrying out all the experiments, I never figured out the sciences behind them. I tried asking my PI several times, and he would only referred me to publications (I was only a freshman in college. I couldn't even get past reading the abstracts). After trying really hard to learn on my own and only getting comments from my PI such as "I didn't hire you to teach other people" or "I can't believe you didn't get that from the paper", I left the lab dishearteningly. I never asked the PI for a recommendation letter when I was getting everything ready to apply earlier this year. On the other hand, I started working full-time in research after graduation, and I've been extremely pleased with this new lab experience. In addition to getting two second-author abstracts just a few months after joining the lab, I'm making presentations at journal clubs and attending seminars and conferences. I've had a really good research and learning experience as a result. I have two letters from this full-time lab: One from the head PI, and another from the senior investigator that I work with.

For the school, I'm submitting 1) Research letter from 1st lab 2) Research letter from PI (full-time job) 3) Research letter from senior researcher (full-time job) 4) Non-science letter (did an honors semester-long project with the professor and kept in touch with him throughout college) 5) science letter #1 (took two classes with the professor and TA'ed for one of his classes, my mentor for med) 6)science letter #2 (my second mentor for med)

Although I got a quick e-mail from the admission office saying that I wouldn't be disqualified from applying, should I still send in a letter explaining why I didn't exactly follow their recommendation letter guideline and send in letters from all labs?

Sorry for the long post, but I'd appreciate any input I can get.

Have a nice day🙂
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I wouldn't recommend that. They've already told you it's okay to not have all the letters and presumably you want them to pay attention to the ones you have, not worry about the missing one. If it comes up in an interview, you can discuss the situation then.
 
dancingdoctor said:
SDN Mentors,

Sometime I become discouraged from even trying to pursue medicine because of my grades. I spent about 2 hours last night calculating all of my GPAs for every year, using the AMCAS method. Please review my stats.

---------------------------
fresh: BCMP 2.1, TOTAL 3.33

soph: BCMP 1.36 TOTAL 1.82

jun: BCMP 3.15 TOTAL 3.18

sen: BCMP 2.45 TOTAL 2.82

5th yr senior: TBA

Post-Bacc undergrad: TBA

Cum undrgrd (current): BCMP 2.14 TOTAL 2.66
---------------------------------------------


This is what I figured:

I need ~ cum. 3.8 in 5th year undergrad and ~ cum. 3.8 in 2 years of post-bacc to obtain ~ 3.0 BCMP GPA.

I have two, very common questions. What do you honestly think my chances are of acceptance to medical school given that I reach a 3.0 total and 3.0 BCMP (considering the upward trend) and possess a 30 MCAT. Secondly, how can I improve my chances for admission?

Also here are some ECs:
3.5 years working in lab part-time (no publications)
100+ volunteer hours: ER, free health clinic (spanish intake asst. and pharmacy tech), adult daycare
founder of pre-med organization
Spanish minor, so knowledge of some Spanish
shadowing of various MDs

Thank you so much!
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Hi DancingDoc,

While you're certainly fighting an up-hill battle, I definitely think you have a chance if you apply to a range of both MD and DO programs. Your volunteer work seems to be pretty solid and that will really help. I think you're on the right track with your GPA and you know what you need to do there... just keep plugging along in your science courses. My biggest suggestion would be to absolutely rock the MCAT so as to counterbalance your GPA. While a 30 is typically considered the magical number, in your case I'd shoot for something a little higher to really demonstrate to adcoms that you're more than capable of the school work.

Hope that helped and good luck! :luck:
 
FutureERDoc2013 said:
I am intersted in becoming a ER physician. I currently have a BS in biology, completed a year PN program (will be licensed in September), and currently in a MS program for Health Care Program. My GPA for undergrad is low, 2.4, however my grad GPA is 3.5. I'm looking to take an EMT-B class in the fall. I'm looking to increase my chances of being accepted to medical school, however I don't know what other ventures to pursue? I can't afford to retake all the classes that i received a C in. Will the GPA from my master's program be beneficial, as well as the other educational pursuits. Right now I'm feeling that all my efforts will end in great disappointment b/c of the applicants that I am competing against. Does anyone have any suggestions?
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FutureERDoc, I don't think that all of your efforts will be unrewarded in the end. While your undergrad GPA is quite low, it seems like you've really turned your academic career around since entering grad school and I think adcoms will take notice of that. Competition is tough, but don't let that get you too down. While numbers are important for screening purposes, they aren't the whole story. I think you have a compelling story and very unique experiences in other health professions, and ultimately, I think both of those will help you when applying to med school.

Grades aside, what sort of ECs do you have? I know you're thinking about doing an EMT-B course, and that's probably a good idea (it's a somewhat debateable topic here on SDN), but are you planning on doing anything else? Are you applying this year or are you starting to get everything in order for application somewhere down the line? (Sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to figure out how best to approach your situation). 🙂
 
Giddyup5 said:
I had a question concering reapplying. I currently am on the waitlist at UCONN but have begun the reapplication process for next year. I received the secondary from uconn which has 6 essays.

Should i rewrite most of the essays? I agree that all of them shouldn't be the same. Considering I made the waitlist my essays were probably good right? I just dont know exactly what to do

Thanks for your help
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I feel ya on this... I debated the same thing when re-applying. My solution was to generally re-use the theme or topic for specific essays if I felt it was a particularly compelling subject but slightly edit it or change the way I presented it.

Since you were WLed your essays were probably at least fairly decent. I'd just try to tighten up some of the ones you really liked, completely change a few others, and get ready to rock this application cycle. 😀
 
mmcnam said:
Hello,

This is such a helpful thread. I'm hoping I might get some advice on an issue that has been bothering me a bit. I am applying for this application cycle and I just took the MCAT yesterday. I was scheduled to take the test on July 24th, but I could not because the testing center had terrible environmental conditions. The temperature was about 115 degrees and I fainted in the middle of the verbal section. I am in contact with the AAMC about refunds, but more importantly, my MCAT scores will not arrive when I indicated that they would. The AAMC does, on occasion, write letters to schools to explain extenuating circumstances like these that harm students and are beyond their control. I cannot rely on the fact that they will do this, so should I send such a letter myself?
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You can, but be sure it is factual and does not come off as "excuse making". Personally, I would not recommend this. Save it as a story to tell at interviews.🙂
 
futuredrcrawfor said:
When looking at research does it only count if it is scientific research?

I am currently working on a public history research project on the holocaust and remembrance as shown through a variety of museums and concentration camps in Netherlands, Germany, and Czech Republic. We will be pulling all the info and making a website to help future study abroad students and talking about different ways to portray history...

Can this count as research when filling out my application?
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The concept of research prior to medical school is important to schools for multiple reasons. It demonstrates an interest in science. It shows that the student has been involved in activities leading to answers to biologically important questions. It also demonstrates an ability to follow through with projects over a period of time.

Non-science research may be seen as enhancing your application by broadening your scope of knowledge and by the follow-though and committment to a project I mentioned. It does not serve the scientific reasons directly.

Medical schools will want to know about this project and what you did, but it is not the same as scientific research just like humanities classes are important but not the same as science classes. Nonetheless, it will give you something to talk about at interviews and will be important to describe in your application.
 
Made For Scrubs said:
Hi,

I'm not sure if this has been asked before, I couldn't seem to find it on the forums. I'm a pre-med in the application process, and I was wondering, how is working for a relative who is a doctor viewed? Since HS and through some of college, I have been working in my dad's medical office. It is pretty much the only clincal exposure I have, and it has certainly taught me a lot about medicine and what it means to be a doctor.

Thanks in advance!
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All medical experiences are important and it is how you describe what you gained that is the key to how it is perceived. However, I would strongly encourage you and anyone whose only medical experience is shadowing or working for a relative to do some shadowing with a non-relative. This will give you a different perspective than what you've grown up with and will also provide more evidence to an adcom that you are aware of the diverse nature of medical specialties and their lifesyle.
 
Classic17 said:
My clinical experience is from guarding a hospital as a Marine in Iraq. I had a lot of interaction with the patients (both from Iraq and America) and this is where I found that I had a passion for medicine. The experience was in 2003 and 2.5 months long. This experience is the bulk of my PS. However it is of note that it is my only clinical or shadowing experience and while unique, I am worried that some adcomms will think it not enough or that I should have exposed myself to medicine outside of a "field" setting. Should I look for more exposure? I have spoken to many doctors and nurses and was allowed behind the scenes to observe a day clinic at Cook County Hospital (extremely underfunded hospital in innner city chicago) by a nurse, but that is it. Will this hold me back or is it sufficient? Is there anything that I might be able to do even though I am applying for the 2008 cycle? Other stats are OK (3.4 SGPA and 3.43 OA with upward trend (4.0 last 2 years) and 32Q (12P/10V/10B) MCAT).
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Although the experiences you had will be considered important by those who evaluate your application, I encourage you to do some shadowing in the United States beyond a one-day clinic. It will allow you to describe your understanding of the life of a physician in the US and enhance your application.
 
sushichubs said:
Hello,

I just completed my 4th year as a UCLA Psychobiology undergrad with an overall GPA of 2.861 (I completed my major and medical school pre-requisites, but I put a hold on my graduation just in case I decide to take more classes to boost up my GPA). I initially was not aiming toward medicine (I was looking more toward psychology), but after volunteering at several departments at the UCLA medical center, I decided that I really want to pursue a career in medicine. Here are my medical pre-requisite (science) grades:

LIFESCI 1 B+
LIFESCI 2 C
LIFESCI 3 C+
LIFESCI 4 C

CHEM 14A B
CHEM 14B C-
CHEM 14BL C
CHEM 14C C+
CHEM 14CL B
CHEM 14D C

MATH 3B B
MATH 3C C

PHYSICS 6A C
PHYSICS 6B B-
PHYSICS 6C B

PHY SCI 5 C
MCD BIO M140 C
CHEM 153A C
CHEM 153L B

I understand that my grades are far below medical school standards, and possibly many of the SMPs (due to immaturity and a rocky relationship), but I would like to know if I still have a shot at this.

I plan to study hard and take the MCAT this January; I plan on shadowing a doctor during this study period as well. I would like to apply for the fall 2008 SMP admissions early in 2008 (January or February), do more to improve my medical school application before the SMP program, and then get solid grades in the SMP.

My question is do I have a chance at SMPs and eventually medical schools given my undergraduate grades?

And if I do, what else should I do to improve my application for SMPs and medical schools? Should I take more classes at UCLA after my MCAT to raise my undergrad GPA? Any suggestions as to what would make me stand-out as an applicant (notable extra-curriculars)?

And how important are the letters of rec. from science professors? I have a Japanese T.A. that could probably write me a good LOR (he is now a good friend of mine and can talk more about my character) and probably could get a decent (although less personal) letter from a Psychobiology professor (I got an A in the course); but since I did not perform all that well in the sciences, I probably should not ask, say, my Chem 153L professor for one? Given these circumstances, would you recommend me taking more classes at UCLA after I take my MCAT to get a solid letter of rec. from a sciences academic advisor as well as to boost my GPA?

I would greatly appreciate your advice; thank you very much for your time.
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Hi sushichubs,

I def think you have a shot at an SMP *and* med school. An application is generally viewed as a package, and while you might be lacking in one aspect (which is not completely unsalvage-able) I think that you're motivated enough to really make your application shine in other ways.

I think you're on the right track... study hard for the MCAT and shine there to dazzle the SMPs you're applying to and later to demonstrate to adcoms that you are capable of med school. I am a firm believer that a solid MCAT can really help make up for a rocky GPA, particularly if you are very clear with the adcoms as to why your GPA is on the low side.

I think it's a very good idea to take extra science courses to demonstrate that you've matured and are capable of the material. While I think it's probably more telling if you're able to rock an "A" out of a higher division science course, I wouldn't rush signing up for the class. It might be worthwhile to take some of the intro courses over again to make sure that you have all the basics down first before heading onto more advanced material.

LORs are always dicey to get, particularly at big universities. At my school they dissuaded us from using TAs, but perhaps schools have different policies regarding this. I would certainly use those people who you feel know your character best. I would avoid asking those professors whose classes you didn't perform well (A or B) in to write LORs.

As far as what ECs to do... I don't really think there is one thing or another (other than the occassional Olympic athlete who applies) which is really going to set one applicant apart from the rest. I would certainly make sure you have enough clinical exposure to be able to answer the "Why medicine?" question... but other than that, I'd get involved with whatever you really enjoy or feel is of particular social/medical/artistic importance.
 
RLMitchell1 said:
Hello All,

I am sending in my AMCAS application next week (was waiting to take the MCAT) and am wondering how much space I should use in the Work/Extracurricular/Awards section for Awards. I saw on another thread that AdComs don't care much about awards, but is it still worth putting down awards that were particularely unique or prestigious? Specifically, I received the Truman Scholarship (75 scholars named), Glamour Top Ten College Women Award, and was named to the USA-Today Academic First Team (20 team members). All are national scholarships and awards. Additionally, I was offered the Luce Scholarship (also prestigious, but I think not as well known amongst medical schools) but declined it. Would you recommend listing some or all of these awards? I have an impressive list of other activities that include paid work and volunteer service, and would only be replacing these scholarships with slightly more common activities, such as really basic volunteering in a hospital (and I have lots of other clinical exposure).

Thank you!
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Hello,


I pondered this same thing last year. Ultimately, I ended up just lumping all of my awards and scholarships together under one heading. In the blank, I then individually listed each award (in order of importance) and described it if necessary. Schools didn't seem to mind this approach and it freed up some space for me to describe more important things like ECs and work experience.

As I recall, a lot of secondaries have areas where you can list off your awards and scholarships in greater detail. Basically, I'd wet their apetite in the primary and then roll out the feast in the secondary. :luck:
 
FutureERDoc2013 said:
I will be applying in 2009. That will give me enough time to complete any required courses and get a lot of experience under my belt. I will be volunteer at a local AIDS clinic and I am currently volunteering at my local church's youth program.
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Awesome. I think you're going to be so money come then. :horns:
 
foreverLaur said:
I know this question has been asked to some extent, but I feel my situation is a bit unique and I would like some input on it beyond what I received on the pre-med forum.

I spent my first two years of college as an accounting major, and just recently switched to microbiology and pursue medicine. I've wanted to be a doctor since I was 4 years old and finally decided to pursue that. My schedule of classes is pretty crammed full as I am doing a microbiology major in two years.

Here is what my EC's will be by the time I apply:
-2 years working in a genetics lab doing accounts receivable, billing, web design, and DNA Sequencing. i will receive research credit hours towards my major for my work in the lab doing the sequencing
-2 years working at the medical center hospitals at my university. i basically "babysit" patients and help nurses. i do a wide variety of things including playing basketball with a brain trauma patient who needs to be active, watching a suicidal/homicidal patient, or watching someone who keeps trying to escape or pull out IVs. this is a paid position only, and the volunteer opportunities offered by the medical center do not involve nearly as much clinical experience and patient contact, so i went with the paid job.
-3 years as a volunteer on www.allexperts.com in five different categories. i spend about 1 hour every single day answering questions from people who need help in those particular five areas.
-1 month of shadowing doctors in the ER, 1 day shadowing a dentist, 1 day observing an orthopedic surgeon in the OR and more shadowing still to come
-1 day volunteering with Jeff Hope - a program from Jefferson Medical Students to volunteer. we set up an RV next to a needle exchange and gave medical care to anyone who needed it. i would have loved to do it more but i left the city as i was only there for an internship.

My Question:
I have heard a lot of iffy comments about my volunteering on allexperts.com. A lot of people tell me that adcoms may not view that as "real" or "sufficient" volunteering experience. I'd suggest going to the website and looking around it a bit. Basically, there are "experts" who volunteer in any category they have extensive knowledge in. You can go to that website and get great help on any topic in the world. I feel as though offering my expertise via this website allows me to reach a much larger group of people. I absolutely love what I do. I really feel like I am using my skills and knowledge to help those who have skills in knowledge in other areas.

Do you think this would count as good quality volunteering experience and would everything I listed above have me "covered" in terms of volunteering, clinical experience, and research? A lot of people are telling me that my volunteering on that website isn't really what adcoms want and I should look into doing something more along the lines of volunteering at a hospital, soup kitchen, nursing home, etc.

While that would all be great, I'm struggling for time and money and would absolutely love it if my volunteering on www.allexperts.com would be looked favorably upon by adcoms.

I'm basically taking 21 hours a quarter year round for the next two years. Right now I am in class from 930-630, then I go to the lab to get my billing and sequencing done. On the weekends I work two 12 hour shifts at the hospital for my job. Somewhere in there I attempt to eat and study.

So what's the verdict? Have I covered all my bases well, especially with the volunteering aspect, or is there more I need to do? Where do I find time for it? I'm afraid if I add anything else to my schedule, my grades will suffer as a result.

Thank you!!!

p.s. Is there any way that someone can PM this answer to me? Last time I asked a question, I was subscribed to the thread but never got any e-mails about responses like I normally do it and it took such a long time to find the response I got. Thanks! 🙂
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I'm not sure I understand the question. I think you are asking if on-line answering of questions would be considered as "community service" volunteering. If that is not the actual question, considering reposting your question in a much simpler form.

My answer is twofold. First, community service activities, like shadowing, are not looked at usually as a "total hours" type of thing. It is a matter of understanding what was done, what the applicant appears to have gained from the experience and how they present and describe the experience in terms of their personal development as an individual and as a future health care professional.

Therefore, how your on-line activity would be evaluated would largely depend on how you described it and what exactly you have been doing. However, I think it is likely that some, if not many adcoms, might not have as much familiarity with this type of "service" and might not consider it in the same light as other activities. You will need to carefully explain why they are equivalent and this might or might not be accepted by any individual adcom member.
 
Hello all,
Wanted to introduce myself. I'm a fourth-year medical student at a top 10 medical school, and have been on the admissions committee for three years. I'm an active member in the executive committee that ranks and admits applicants, and have gained tremendous insight into the process - everything from majors to essays to interviews.

As a semi-nontraditional student, I was a liberal arts major in college and entered medicine after a brief career in finance. I've never looked back, and I feel supremely fortunate to be where I am today. Given the stress that inevitably accompanies each application, I am eager to help soothe fears and provide a little insight into the mysterious process of admissions - including how to strengthen an application and ace the interview.

Answers to some standard questions:

1. What is the one thing you wish students planning to enter medicine knew?
I would urge any pre-med student to truly TEST their decision to enter medicine. Admissions committees are scanning for this throughout your application. It's easy to proclaim you have an undying love for medicine, but how do you know what it entails? What have you done to indicate that you've maturely and honestly thought out your decision? Seriously, this is for your good because it will absolutely be miserable if you are in your third year or first year of residency and realize you hate medicine. You really, really need to understand what the road ahead involves - and that comes by shadowing, reading and getting a sense of the road from as many physicians/medical students as possible.

2. What are the three top characteristics you like to see in an applicant?
1. Enthusiasm and a bright demeanor (i.e. MUST be able to carry on a conversation! Must convince me that he/she will not sink into an unsurmountable depression at the first sight of a bad grade or after 1 night without sleep)
2. Strong work ethic (i.e. willingness to read even when dead tired, go and spend an hour after sign-out with a patient who has more questions, etc.)
3. Compassion and genuine caring nature for those in need - empathy, in other words


Looking forward to helping with your questions! And best of luck with the admissions process.
 
what do adcomms do when applicants have an alcohol violation from freshman year?
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We evaluate the entire application including what the applicant says about the violation and decide whether we think the applicant is a competitive candidate for our medical school. Note that I removed your screen name from the post. You can do a search and you'll see this is a common SDN question.
 
pazan said:
Hey, I wanted to thank you all in advance... the advice on this forum is really great for all types of applicants.

I wanted to know if it would be a disadvantage to apply at the beginning of a post-bacc/master's program. I'll be taking a year off (current senior applying next cycle) and am planning on a one-year, research intensive post-bac or master's (like NIH IRTA or Mt. Sinai's Master's in Biomed) during my year off. Since these programs would start after I submitted my primaries, would schools hold off on me until I get a semester's worth of grades or results from the program? Also, how would I go about reporting my planned attendance of the program on AMCAS, should I hold off on telling schools until the secondaries?... I have a lowish GPA (3.4 from UCLA) that might raise some flags, 35T (13/11/11) MCAT, and a lot research experience/good LORs from those experiences. Thanks again.
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My understanding is that you have already finished all the prerequisites for medical school since you've already taken the MCAT. You are thus,I imagine, enrolling in this post-bacc course to bolster your GPA. In this case, you could go ahead and apply. A 3.4 GPA, while not high, is not so low that it would necessarily bar you from consideration from top programs, given that you have a good MCAT and if other parts of your application are strong. You should indicate on AMCAS that you are enrolled in this program and enter in your anticipated date of graduation and degree expeected. Then, you can update schools with a transcript once you receive some grades (hopefully high).

Hope this helps, and good luck!
 
jon stewart said:
I am an international Student on a H4 visa,

A little info about my visa (h4)
- i can not work in the USA
- i can not be given a SSN, because I am ineligible under H4 status
- i can not volunteer for a paid position (i will explain this a bit later)
- i can obtain a drivers license
-i can attend school
- i can open a bank account
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-4_visa

As a result of this, i have been turned away from hospitals to which i applied to volunteer because i dont have a ssn. Its required for some hospitals.
Also, i cannot volunteer for a position if its paid. So lets say that i wanted to do the internships that many people do, i cannot even volunteer to do those for free because it is paid.
This is just a inckling of the things i have been through, i will spare the details to keep it short.

Because of this stife, my grades have taken a hit in my first two years. Also my EC's are not as extensive as others.

As you can see, my situation has been very restrictive on me. This coming year is my senior year and I am currently volunteering at a clinic this summer, also I somehow managed to find a doctor to shadow this summer. Also, i may be able to work by the beginning of next year (immigration stuff, if you want I can explain it.)

How much do the admissions committees really know about immigration policy? I don’t want to sound silly by telling them what H4 status is? Also is it appropriate for me to explain my situation to the med schools? I don’t want to sound like i am making excuses but this is what i have encountered. Do they know the specifics on the green card process? Will they understand when I tell them I-485 as been filed..etc.? How deep do they understand the process, I mean will they know more about it than what is on the internet? Because it’s a lot more complicated than just what is found on the web.

My greatest fear is that my application looks rather pathetic in comparison to everyone else, but I also tried to things, but it was much more complicated for me.

What advice would you give to me? What should I do to improve my chances?

I will give a little more info about my stats

I have a 3.5, retook two quarters of physics. Got a B- and C+ first time, then a A- and B respectively. I passed/no passed a comm. Class. I do have a C+ in one of my three ochem classes; the other two are A’s. I have an upward trend.

In terms of ec stuff

I was the treasurer of my dorm freshmen year
I served on the faculty library committee for my freshmen year
I am part of a fraternity (we have done volunteering at habitat for humanity, and set up events for kids, etc)
In terms of clinical stuff, I finally managed to volunteer at a clinic, and I am shadowing a doctor.

Since I should be able to work, this is what I plan to do before I graduate in fall 08.

Research internship in summer 08, a freshmen orientation leadership program which is in summer 08 also. Both of these are paid. I am hoping that I can continue work in the lab after the internship is over since I will be at school for another quarter, and if I stay in town then maybe for even longer.

I also am planning to TA an anatomy and physiology lab section for two quarters, and I may be able to be the instructor the third quarter.


During my final quarters I am planning on doing a CNA program so once I graduate I can work till I apply in june 09 hopefully if I get my permanent residency. Will this help me enough?

How does my plan sound? What else should I do to improve my chances? If there is anything that needs clarification or further explanation(s) please let me know!

Thanks for your sound assistance!
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Disclaimer: I'm no legal advisor and you would probably be best getting in touch with an immigration lawyer. However, you should convert your H-4 visa into a student visa which allows you to work and volunteer. I had friends in college who went this route while their families were dependents on a parental H-1.

Admissions committees know about the difficulties with visas. However, you will have a significantly harder time getting into a U.S. med school as an international applicant without permanent residency. It would be best to see if you can get a student visa at least.

Good luck!
 
alyssadk said:
I'm planning on transferring schools soon, but I'm currently at a regional campus of a state school. I was just wondering: are regional campuses are lumped together with community colleges? The regional campus doesn't offer science programs, so there are a few science classes but they're not particularly intense. Should I hold off my sciences 'til I transfer or plug on ahead?
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Likely medical schools will know the caliber of the regional program isn't quite as rigorous. IMO, it would be best to hold off on taking the course until you are at the more rigorous school. Taking all your science courses at an "easier" institution wouldn't carry as much weight, at least from what I've seen.
 
hanlinting said:
I am an Illinois resident trying to matriculate in 2009, or I will be applying next summer of 2008. Please tell me if I should retake my MCAT considering my application as a whole.

I went to Loyola and majored in Economics and Philosophy and finished in three years while holding various part-time jobs (20hrs/week). I graduated August 2007 with Magna Cum Laude. My MCAT is 32P (13P/8V/11B/PW) and cumulative GPA is 3.788 and science GPA is around 3.8 also. I don’t have a grade lower than B but has three withdrawals for which I have good explanations. I am a little worried about my low verbal score but would like to know if I should retake it. I prefer not to since my average practice score for verbal is 9 and I don’t want to risk lowering other sections just to improve one point.

My research experiences include two semesters of helping a graduate student with his thesis on Clay Electrochemistry; three summer internships in a mentorship program at a Cook County Research Lab working on Antisense Therapeutics for Hormone Insensitive Prostate Tumors (no publication but one abstract and few poster presentations); interdisciplinary philosophical research where I co-author a paper on Aesthetic and Healing linking the beauty experience of the mind and healing of the body (pending publication); in the gap year, my professor has offered me to write an article as the first author and I am planning to work on it (if this helps to soften the VR 8 at all).

Awards include AP scholar (putting in down because I got AP credits although I was only exposed to English for two years); Dean’s list, International Collegiate Scholar, Casseretto Award from Loyola’s Chemistry Department (awarded yearly to top student in class), and member of Phi Sigma Tao Honor Society.

My volunteer experiences include teaching English to senior citizens at South East Asian Institute (2years); volunteered at a homeless shelter for three years from sophomore year high school to freshmen year college (4years); volunteered at Mercy Hospital for two years during high school (I am including this because of its significance on my personal growth); shadowed a doctor for three weeks at a third world clinic (BURMA); currently volunteering at Children Memorial Hospital and obtaining my EMT license. I am also planning to shadow a US physician in a few weeks. So by the time I apply I would have some clinical experience as an EMT also.

I wasn’t involved in too many school activities but I was involved deeply with one club that I founded with my friends. Our club called Invisible Conflicts is devoted to educating people on conflicts of the world ignored by the mainstream media. My involvement included organizing the Global Night Commute for students from Chicago to sleep out; I went to DC with friends to lobby for Juba Peace process in Uganda ; served as a treasure for two semesters; and also worked to found a small elementary school in Uganda .

I speak three languages fluently: Burmese, Chinese, and English. Burmese and Chinese are my primary languages; and as you know, English is my second language.


I have two years off between now and matriculation (if I get accepted), so here is my plan for that two years.

Academically, I want to brushes up my Chinese so that I may become more fluent, but I am more intent on improving my conversational English by seeing a speech therapist and reducing my accent. I want to sound articulate and speak with least possible accent especially during interview so that I may be given the benefit of a doubt for my low verbal score. I planned on doing humanity research with my professor on aesthetic and healing; and write an expanded article based on the one I got published (Beauty and Healing). Obtain my EMT license

For volunteering and clinical experience, I plan to go back to the homeless shelter and continue volunteering. Continue volunteering at Children’s Memorial Hospital . Shadow a doctor for two weeks. Work at Abercrombie and Fitch to pay off my loans and begin working as EMT B once I receive my license.

Sorry this letter is so long, but my mind has been very much preoccupied with this matter since the score came out. So, do you think I would be competitive at Rush, UIC and Loyola? Or is retaking the MCAT a must-do? I guess the gist of my question is that will the admission committee ignore my low verbal score if I improve in other parts of my application such as extra curricular activities and so on. Please let me know if there is anything I can do to improve my chances.

God Bless,
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You do have a low verbal score. However, if you write a strong personal statement, author the articles/publications (esp first author) this would strongly make up for this score. You have a wealth of other excellent experiences and involvement which I think would place your application in good stead. With your application I would not recommend retaking the MCAT, but others may wish to chime in as well.
 
studdoc314 said:
I just got my MCAT scores back from July 13. I was really surprised by my verbal score, in a bad way. I was getting 33-36 on practice tests...
PS: 10
VR: 8
BS: 11

Writing score: T
That was really surprising. How do you get an 8 on VR and a T on the WS??

In any case, with a 3.32 overall GPA and a 3.2 science GPA (with an upward trend) from WashU in Saint Louis, I'm not sure I have anything to offer to allopathic med schools...I should retake the MCAT and delay my application for a year so that I can send my senior year grades in, right?

Do you think I will have a chance going anywhere else but my state school, Jefferson Med in PA (I live in DE)? I'm not sure I do. I was thinking I should apply early decision to there next year to maximize my chances. I don't think I would be unhappy there. I do have good ec and research and I am a good person but I don't think they are reliable indicators of admission....

One more question, applying to the same med school twice hurts your app, right? So I should not apply to Jefferson this year and the next year if I don't get in, right?
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It's always hard to say what your chances are. Your GPA and verbal scores are low, but you do have the highest possible writing score which is a plus (although, to be honest, the writing score has very little impact compared to the rest of the application). What I can tell you is that your entire application and chances of getting in do NOT hinge solely upon the MCAT. There are several other factors, such as letters of rec, extracurricular invovlement, personal statement, luck, etc. that are always in play. Likewise, a strong MCAT does not guarantee admissions (we recently rejected a candidate with a 40R MCAT and 3.9 GPA).

It does NOT necessarily hurt you to reapply to a school should you not get in the first time around. In fact, it is a HUGE plus if, when rejected from a school you have your heart set on getting into, you then ASK the school specifically what was deficient in your application, work to fix it and then reapply after working to improve this. Such dedication is always looked upon kindly.

Take this time to evaluate why you really want to go into medical school. The main point of the MCAT and GPA, as far as how our committee looks at it is, is in indicating your ability to intellectually succeed in medical school (put in the work required to do well, take standardized tests which you will be taking for the rest of your life, etc.) The most important factor in this application is conveying a sense of maturity as well as a passion to be in this field.

Good luck!
 
Omyss said:
I posted this in pre-allo, but not many responses... so i thought this might be a better place:

I've gone through pretty serious chroninc conditions throughout my life and especially in undergrad (which are now thankfully resolved). My family doc is willing to right a LOR describing that i've gone through some very diffucult challanges throughout the years and have still been able to perform well in school. I'm going to give him my resume and my transcript so he will know excatly how much/well i have done.....

Do you think this is a bad idea? I mean of all my LORs he would likely know me the best, and the fact that he's describing my challanges and my ability to overcome them would look good right?
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Letters of recommendation from a family friend or relative are never useful in the admissions process (at our school, at least). Your performance will speak for itself, and anything that is deficient should be addressed by you in the personal statement. If there is a concern about your ability to physically comply with the demands of medical school, and your condition is now resolved, then a letter verifying this by your physician would be appropriate.
 
soaron said:
Hi there,

I'm a recent pre-med post-baccalaureate grad, and am in the middle of my secondaries for MD/DO schools.

In an effort to demonstrate consistency in one area of medicine, I'm trying to gain some research experience in HIV/AIDS. It was recently suggested that I try to get a position in a lab of one of the physicians on the admissions committee. But I can't seem to find who exactly IS on the admissions committee -- are they usually posted on the school's website?

Thank you!
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This varies from school to school. Instead of trying to get into the system this way, perform excellently regardless of which physician you work with to get an excellent letter. A stellar letter from a research mentor carries a lot of weight.
 
Klipsch said:
First off, I would like to introduce myself. My name is Klipsch, 23, from Southern California. I am currently wrapping up the few last things necessary to finish my 5th and last year as an undergraduate student at UC-Irvine, majoring in Biological Science. I started my undergraduate career at UC-Riverside as an Undeclared/Undecided student and transferred to UC-Irvine my 2nd year. I officially declared myself a Biological Sciences major in my 3rd year.


Because of my insecurities and embarrassment, I will choose to withhold certain details until I find myself comfortable or in “good company.”


My long-term goal is to matriculate into Medical School.
My short-term goal, (which really means a lot to me right now), is to gain resources, particularly a Mentor, to help me and guide me in achieving my long-term goal.


In my 5 years as an undergraduate, I was never what you might consider to be a “good student.” The only times I felt I was a good student was during my 1st year at UC-Riverside (winter and spring quarters), where my goal was to transfer to UC-Irvine, and recently this summer, when reality hit me.


I look back at my grades and although I did enough to get my degree, I didn’t do enough to do significantly more after my life as an Undergraduate. Many circumstances arose, and I didn’t rise to the challenge, otherwise.


Right now, I’d like to talk to somebody, or at least get pointed in the right direction to WHO I can/should talk to about getting back on track.
Iv done a little bit of research, and I’m learning a little about Post Bacc Programs, SMPs etc… but I don’t know where I stand and which routes that I should realistically consider. I know there’s SOME other way to get where I want to be, I just need someone to shed a little light
.
I realize that I am leaving out a lot right now but, no offense to the community, but I don’t feel comfortable embarrassing myself publicly among so many people who are already doing what I WANT to do. In short, I feel inferior.


PS. If you’d like me to disclose more information, like an academic profile, I am willing to furnish one, just not publicly at the moment.
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Klipsch, you should contact the pre-med advisor at your school. It doesn't matter if you have already graduated, he/she will be an excellent resource. You need someone you can talk to face-to-face and meet with on a regular basis.

Good luck!
 
jmdoc said:
Thanks in advance for taking time to answer my question(s)!
I am a second year student at a UC, and I am planning on applying to medical school in June 2008. (Undergraduate human biology degree will only take three years total because of high school classes (college and AP).) Last year (my first year), my GPA was around a 3.34. I got B's in two physics classes, one general chem (honors) class, and an upper division genetics class. I also got a D in my second honors general chem class, but I retook it and the last general chem class (both regular and in the summer) and got an A in both. Last year I did not have enough time to study because I was rowing for the school's intercollegiate team. (But I am not doing rowing anymore.)
This year I will be taking mostly upper science classes and plan on getting all A's. That means that by June 2008, when applying, my GPA should be around a 3.67. In addition I started volunteering in a research lab in June 2007 (no money to pay me, so they say). I get to learn all sorts of stuff, not just autoclaving, etc. I will have my name on a paper (as soon as it is published), and hopefully will have a few more publications by next June. I am also volunteering at a horseback-riding program for kids with disabilities (riding is supposed to improve motor and cognitive functions), for about 4 hours a week. I also teach a church class for children around age 6, so I am learning how to deal with all sorts of kids. This upcoming year I will also be shadowing physicians in several specialties. And hopefully when I take the MCAT next spring I will do well, since I will be devoting lots of time to studying for it.

So my questions are: Even though I did not do as well as hoped my first year, if my GPA improves my second, will admission committees look less harshly on my first year grades? (Not completely overlook them, just be a little more understanding.)
Second: Is there anything else I can do to improve my chances? I am a California resident, but at this point I feel like I am going to have a hard time getting into California's schools. Is there anything that will help me to get into California schools and/or out of state schools? I am not looking for top-tier school; I just want to get in! (Is Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine a top-tier school? I cannot seem to find this out.)
Last: Will graduating in just three years, rather than four hurt me? I could take filler classes, but I am committed to and really want to graduate a year early, and I am trying to save some money from undergrad for medical school.
Thanks again! (And sorry for the long message, just wanted to explain everything.)
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Study as well as you can for the MCAT and do very well on this test. This will help balance your initial GPA and academic struggles. Next, get involved with something that exposes you innately to the practice of medicine. Spend a lot of time on this and show that you have a mature understanding of medicine as a specialty. Take challenging upper-level science courses and do very well in these, to help balance out the initial low grades in general chemistry. Doing some very in-depth, creative independent research and getting published also goes a long way (not just some cookie-cutter lab position but something where you REALLY can get a good letter, learn a lot and demonstrate your academic knowledge and dedication).

Good luck!
 
Kate6058 said:
Hello,

I have a question about who you should and shouldn't as to write letters of recommendation for you. I'm a non-trad and have been at my current job for almost three years and have a great relationship with my boss. I know he would have great things to say about me in a letter, and I'd love to ask him for a recommendation for my upcoming application - I'm just not sure how well written that letter would be. Only on a few occasions have I seen some of his writing, but it's enough to worry me that there might be grammar and/or spelling errors in a letter. I think he could make bigger mistakes than just a typo or two. Should I avoid asking my boss for a rec? To what degree should the applicant be concerned with a recommender's writing capabilities?

Thanks for any advice you have.
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Have your boss write the letter. If you've been there almost 3 years, it's important. We won't evaluate you based on the spelling and grammar in someone else's letter unless the letter says "spelling and grammar reviewed by the applicant."

j/k

Good luck - Try to make it as clear to the letter writer as you can what is needed in a med school application letter. Often times these letters don't say much because the letter writer had no idea what should be in them. So, have them write it, in their style and English, but give them the themes you think should be addressed (hard-work, communication skills, etc).
 
Spin said:
I'm a sophomore pre-med student, and if I want to graduate on time I have to decide between two VERY different majors in less than two weeks.:scared:


The majors in question are:
A) Neurobiology, specializing in cellular and molecular biology, or
B) Health Science.

Neurobiology is a very in-depth science major that involves a few graduate level science courses and 6 credit hours of research yielding a senior thesis. I love science and I think I might want to do research during and MAYBE after medical school. I started doing biochemical research this summer and I love it. Also, I have this idea :idea: involving Alzheimers, which I'm REALLY interested in testing, and I might have the chance to test it during my two semesters of research, especially after the way Neurobio's coursework will prepare me. Here's a link to the coursework I'd get to do if I took this major 😀 http://www.mbi.ufl.edu/~muir/C&MIDS-NBS.html

On the other hand, I know I'll learn a ton of science in medical school and I'd like to have some variety in my time as an undergrad... plus, I'm afraid that the grad-level coursework might bring my science GPA down.

If I stop doing hard science now, will they really take me seriously at med school if/when I want to do hard-science research? I have a feeling that if I stop now, I won't be able to get involved again until after I graduate from med school, but once I graduate I really just want to focus on being a good doctor. I'm not interested in doing an MD-PhD; I've heard too many horror stories about PhDs and I really don't want to spend 7 years in the med-school phase of my life 😱... plus, if I decide to go into research, NIH makes that very possible, even with just an MD.


Now, about Health Science... here's a site with the coursework: http://www.registrar.ufl.edu/catalog0708/programs/majors/healthscience.html#1
Health Science would give me a chance to learn all the ins and outs of the healthcare system, which I'd really like to have, since no one in my family is involved in healthcare and my school, which has 50,000 students, has only 2 pre-med advisors!!! The healthcare system and health science VERY interesting to me, and it would probably be easier to keep up my 3.86 GPA with this major. I'm going to be an RA next year and I'd like to finally start volunteering on a regular basis, so the relative easiness of this major is appealing. Also, with degree in Health Science, I read at http://www.usip.edu/careerservices/students/majors/What Can I do with a major in Health Science.pdf
that there were several jobs I could get in healthcare settings, which could tide me over until the next application round if I get rejected from every med school I apply to the first time around, which would also give me more clinical experience. (This major also requires a senior thesis to graduate with honors, but the research is clinical, not hard-science.)


One slightly unrelated question: Does it matter to med schools whether I graduate with honors high honors (Magna/Summa Cum Laude, as opposed to just Cum Laude)? Would it matter more if I had to reapply the next year, when they would see my senior year grades and all before accepting me?
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I recommend doing the research that you enjoy the most.
 
Spin said:
Even if doing the research I want means doing a major that would probably bring down my science GPA and give me a lot less time for community service and clinical experience?
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You will do best at research if it is what you want to do and your enthusiasm will show. I stand by my advice.
 
mickeydoodle said:
Hello everyone,
First off, I just want to thank everyone who has been giving great tips for everyone who is applying to medical school and that all the tips I've read thus far have been very helpful and provide a great insight for me as an applicant or will be applicant at least.

I went to undergrad in a UC and had done poorly due to person issues and situations that came up. I ended up going to a postbac program to repeat some courses and took some upper division courses to hopefully raise my horrific GPA from my undergrad years. Over the years, there is an upward trend and compared to my low GPA during my undergrad years (2.8), I had an overal post bac gpa of a 3.85. This has brougth both my overal gpa and BCPM gpa to a 3.1. Now I know my overall amcas undergrad gpa is incredibly lacking considering the average gpa for many of the allopatric schools (which is what I want to apply to), but would a 33 on my MCATs, studying abroad, and several years of interning at teaching hospitals (shadowing with doctors for two quarters, did clinical research for a year, then interned in the ER for the next two years) help my situation ?

Should I take more classes to boost my gpa or consider a special masters program ?
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Forget the overall GPA, you will never get it to a competitive number. There are many students who have walked the tightrope to recovery and are in medical school --- but there is little room for you to slip because that safety net is very small if you do. Thankfully more medical programs are accepting non-trad students, many of whom have previously stumbled. You appear to be on the right path. Here are my thougts on making yourself as competitive as possible
1. Do your research on schools who are more likely to admit you and that fits your future clinical/research (?) interests
2. A committee needs to know that you are academically viable so in your new academic program they want to see a minimum of 2-3 full-time semesters of solid academic coursework, in a good 4-year institution, with excellent outcomes. You would be best served by getting a second BS, especially if your initial degree was non-science. If your initial degree was science, generally you probably should not repeat too many courses and therefore should look toward a MS in a basic science field. You probably should talk with a premed advisor near you for more specific guidance as to what is available to you. You have reported a great GPA, hopefully, the rest here applies as well.
3. Support your academic program with a solid MCAT score in the 30+ range.
4. Continue to show a consistent motivation for medicine in the areas of meaningful clinical volunteerism and shadowing. Some programs prefer volunteerism over actually working in the clinical environment, but either shows association and interest. The key is consistency over time, not so much quantity of hours.
5. Research is fine if that is your interest, most medical schools will note research interest; some programs weigh research experience more heavily than others.
6. Finally, showing your humanism toward others is also an important element to many admissions committees. Most often this too is shown by a consistent trend in your application toward community service volunteerism. This volunteerism can be with national (Habitat, Big Brother, MET Ministriesetc.) or local organizations (churches, feeding homeless, HS tutoring, hospice, etc.).

If you can bring all of these items to the table in your application, non-trad friendly med programs will be more willing to discount your initial academic perils. You will have to continue to work very hard and, unfortunately, there are no guarantees for admission.
 
Hello Mentors,

I had a question concerning the importance of volunteering and LORs to admissions committees. I have a 3.7 GPA with an upward trend and mostly A's in the sciences (no MCAT score yet). I've been very committed to research for the past 2 years and also have a summer of quality clinical experience. I 've also worked part time all through college thus far.

However, I'm pretty lacking in volunteer work seeing as how I really have none. Do you think this will severely hurt my chances? I've been in some clubs and done some isolated volunteer activities, and I'm pretty normal person as far as people skills and likeability go, so its not like I haven't matured at all or learned more about my desires for medicine as a career.

Also, how are LORs viewed?

Thank you
 
Kate6058 said:
Hello. I recently wrote with a question regarding recommendation letters, but since then I've found myself in an even bigger predicament. I've learned that the company I've worked for for three years (I'm a non-trad) has a policy against providing recommendations for employees. This is a large, national company, and frankly I am dumbfounded. I've never heard of such a rule, and now I'm worried about not having a reference to the time I've spent out of college. I'm told my manager can give me a personal reference but can no way connect himself to being my boss or working for our company, nor can he comment on my work ethic or anything having to do with job performance. Have any adcoms heard of anyone in such a situation? Will I have a way to explain this in my application? What do I do?
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Don't panic. Medical school admissions committees are composed of individuals who will read what you write to them in your essays and listen to what you tell them. So, if you simply explain the situation if it comes up during an interview (and it almost certainly won't), you'll be fine. Have your manager write the personal reference and work on the rest of your application. Good luck!
 
NeedsAdvice15 said:
😎Well, I am new here so i'll introduce myself and the situation I'm in before I ask for advice. Anyway, I am a senior in High School and I know I want to go pre-med, and I know I want to go to medical school. My problem is that no matter who I ask, I get contradictory answers when I ask this one question: "Will going to a state school to save money for Med School hurt my chances of getting into a good med school?" That is, even if I have awesome MCAT scores and a great gpa?
I am currently taking an internship at a hospital near my school as my D-block class to get an idea of how hospitals work, and even though it is a hospital for more long term patients, and isn't quite as busy as a regular hospital would be, I have gotten some good incite.
Some of the doctors I have talked to say that it is a great idea to go to a state school to save money for Med-school. This is especially significant with the rise in tuition costs over the last couple decades, and I am personally not looking forward to getting that bill. However, I want to be a doctor, so there isn't really any way around that.
On the other hand, I have talked to other people who have told me that if I don't get into Tufts (where I would go in a heartbeat if I was rich and money didn't mean anything to me), or other top ranked schools, then I will have zero chance of getting into their med schools.
To save money I think it would be best if I went to Umass -Amherst to save money, because I can get the scholarship money to pay for all of the tuition. However, I can't really depend on only the accounts of a few doctors to decide where to go for my undergraduate years, so I searched for a good forum where I could possibly ask more people who might have more knowledge of these things. So now I will wait and see what I get for responses, as well as continue to ask more doctors I meet at the hospital where I'm interning, family, family friends, quidance counselor, etc.
If anyone knows the answer to this or has some good advice, I would really appreciate it. Thank you.​
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Choose the school that 1) You like the best AND 2) that you and your family can reasonably afford. I'm certain that there are lots of alumni of UMass-Amherst in medical schools thoughout the United States.

Now, as a personal favor, could you not post in blue in the future? 🙂
 
satriela said:
I have two questions.
I'm in the middle of earning a Master's degree in Library Science. I'll have 18 hours in December. Would not finishing this degree be a strike against me? Should I finish this degree before starting my pre req classes?

My clinical experience comes from one year of working as a psych tech in the baker act unit of a state psychiatric hospital.--That was in 2001-2002. Is it too told? Should I do something else before applying?

Thank you in advance, I appreicate your time.
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Evaluate your real reason for wanting to become a physician. There are many academic and non-academic requirements to become a competitive applicant for an MD Program. While a year in the state hospital will give you some insights you will have to convince a school that you are motivated for medicine and working with those in need. Realizing that you want to become an MD based on an experience 5 years ago reinforces the question why? I recommend that you contact a premed advisor in your area to learn more about what is necessary to become a competitive applicant. Moreover you might explore some other healthcare provider vocations which may have more of a guaranteed outcome.
 
Schwerbert said:
Thanks so much for taking the time to read this 🙂

As of right now I am a junior in chemical engineering at a very well-ranked engineering school (more specifically the chemical engineering department is waaaaay up there). I will be applying to MD schools in 2008 once I get my May, 2008 MCAT score back. So far, I have been hitting around the 32-34 area, but I have an entire Kaplan course ahead of me so I'm aiming for a 36+ at least to accompany my overall GPA that will show on my app of about 3.75-3.80 (BCPM GPA of about a 3.7... maybe a little higher if all goes according to plan). I'm worried about my extracurriculars, however.

This past summer (Summer 2007) I volunteered in an emergency department in a city hospital for... oh probably 8 hours a week. For my junior year semesters at my undergrad, I am currently volunteering 3 hours/week in an oncology department and will change to a new department in January, 2008. I also do research for about 15 hours a week in an organic chemistry lab working new applications of an antibiotic. I should have a publication by the time my primaries go out, if... again... all goes according to plan. I will be a member of a national engineering honors society (also does community service) when I apply as well, as I am initiating in about a month. I also am in the honors program and will graduate with honors. I also am starting to tutor math and chemistry.

The thing I am worried about though, is in my freshman and sophomore years, I didn't show most of these EC's. I was a member of a chemical engineering group sure, but my volunteering, research, and tutoring didn't really start until this summer.

Having said all that, and knowing that I wish to matriculate (hopefully 🙂) in the fall of 2009, my questions to you are this:

1. Is that a big deal? I am putting extensive time into everything for this (my junior) year. Basically I go 24/7 every day. But my freshman and sophomore years showed... I guess I would call it a lack of motivation. I didn't actually decide on the medicine path 100% until about a year ago, and I'm worried it shows.

2. What is my biggest hole in my application? I listed just about everything. Oh I did caddy at a country club for 5 years. Haha funny I forgot about that. What can I do to improve it in the next 7 or 8 months before my application goes out?

I really want to demonstrate that I am passionate about attempting to go to into medicine, and that I'm not just filling in EC's the year before I apply, because the former is the absolute truth, the latter is not.

Thanks for your time!

Oh yeah and do student cheering clubs and sections at big state universities matter at all on applications? One actually raises money and I have participated in that for a couple years as well.

Sorry for rambling! 😳
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Thank you for your inquiry. Academically you are appear to be competitive for most programs. You are showing motivation for medicine on a consistent basis from the time that you "made the decision." You have some research, that helps to make you more competitive. The only things that you may be lacking are some physician shadowing and consistent humanism type volunteerism: feed homeless, hospice, church groups, big bro/sis, habitat, etc. Yes cheering clubs show teamwork/leadership skills which are also something that schools may look for in an applicant. Continue volunteerism and practice interview skills. You may have to be convincing during interviews about your more recent decision for medicine and support with the "right reasons." More importantly it is not unusual for engineers to have very good numbers but often fall short in communicating their compassion during interviews. Finally, do your homework regarding the qualities that schools desire in their applicants -- work with a premed advisor at your school and reviewing the AAMC MSAR as starting points.
 
123med said:
Hi. This is my first time posting so bear with me. I am taking an Intro to hearing science class next semester. Will this class be counted towards my science GPA?How bad does it look if I drop a history class that my advisor erroniously told me was a requirement, but I actually do not need. I will be graduating with at least 25 extra credits so I do not need the class and I am not doing too well in it.
Thanks for the information🙂
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It is my understanding that your "science GPA" is computed by AMCAS and is also known as your BCPM (Biology, Chemistry, Physics, Math) GPA. AMCAS will compute your "science GPA" based on courses that you completed from those departments as depicted on your transcript. Withdrawing from a course is normally not a huge problem unless you have several withdrawals. Many programs request that you explain the reasons for withdrawals in their supplemental applications.
 
pianogirl0104 said:
This thread is so helpful! I'd appreciate any and all feedback.

I'll be graduating from undergrad in May 2008 with a BS in Mechanical Engineering and I'm wondering what I can do to better my chances. Here are my stats:

MCAT 2006: 25Q (7 PS, 9 VR, 9 BS)
MCAT 2007: 27Q (10 PS, 9 VR, 8 BS)
GPA: about 3.3
BCPM: 3.29

I'm a TX resident, female. My GPA is pretty low for a few reasons: I'm an engineering major so my classes are pretty difficult, and I originally went to Tulane University until Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans and then I was displaced to an engineering school in upstate New York (Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute). I entered RPI 4 weeks late and never fully caught up in all of my classes. Upon returning to Tulane when the school reopened, I was told that the engineering school had been cut and that I would have to transfer permanently. So now I'm at RPI as a transfer student. All the moving back and forth makes me look very unstable, and my grades show it. However now that I'm at RPI for good, my GPA has significantly increased (4.0 last semester...hopefully 2 more 4.0s before I graduate).

As for ECs: I'm a Hospice volunteer, I started a club called Foundation for International Medical Relief of Children at RPI (currently President), I work in a Biochem lab and a Biomechanics lab, shadowing experience with a pedi ophthalmologist, American Red Cross volunteer/health and safety instructor, and I'm hoping to start working as a patient care tech in the hospital next semester.

I will definitely be applying for the 2009 cycle so I know I'll have a year off after graduating. Should I do an SMP? If not, what should I do? Work in a research lab or at a hospital or something else? Should I retake the MCAT? (I've been told that it would only be worth it if I got 33+)

Please let me know what you think. Thanks so much!
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Thank you for your inquiry. Many programs will be sympathetic to your situation and some may look at your before and after academics and possibly offer you an interview. A strong MCAT will be very helpful to help an admissions committee to determine interviewability. In the long run though, while sympathetic, many programs will probably pass you by because of your checkered academics. If you have an extra year, I would recommend a second bachelors degree in a basic science area or a one year MS in a basic science area to give the committee a very clear picture of your academics. Along the way you should continue volunteerism to show your compassion and motivation toward the medical field.
 
LostLost said:
Hi,

I have a question on improving my chances of acceptance into med school. So here is my problem. i have a 32p mcat with 8 on verbal. I can write good personal statements and secondaries to offset my 8 on verbal but the problem is that I speak with a heavy Asian accent. Other aspects of my application are in good standing. I have been practicing to reduce my accent for better communication; but i don't know how much it is gonna help by the time i apply next year. What are the things i can do to improve my chances regarding my accent? Does my accent make it difficult for me to convince the interviewer that my English is not as bad as the verbal score might suggest? Thank you very much.

PS. I double majored in philosophy/economics and finished a year early. I have a non-science GPA of 3.8. and co-authored one philosophy article this summer.
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Thank you for your inquiry. Most programs will understand a VR of 8 for those who grow up in a household, possibly first or second generation in the U.S., where English is not the primary language spoken. You did not major in the sciences but with a 32 evidently have enough of a basis to score well in the other sections; also not sure of your science GPA and numbers of hours in that discipline. If you have attended to all of the extra-curricular areas of medical motivation/volunteerism, community service volunteerism, physician shadowing, leadership/teamwork, and possibly research the only real challenge would be your conversational English. If you have done a good job with all of the above you should receive several offers for an interview and if you are able to express yourself well, even with a heavy accent you probably will get an offer or two.

It's tough to change your speech patterns in a short time. I might contact the student testing/learning center at your school to see if they might have some programs for non-native English speakers that can help you with communication skills. Also make an extreme effort to immerse yourself in English only conversations, asking for pronunciation assistance. In the end a school will be concerned about whether you can communicate effectively with your classmates, but more importantly patients.
 
studdoc314 said:
I just got my MCAT scores back from July 13. I was really surprised by my verbal score, in a bad way. I was getting 33-36 on practice tests...
PS: 10
VR: 8
BS: 11

Writing score: T
That was really surprising. How do you get an 8 on VR and a T on the WS??

In any case, with a 3.32 overall GPA and a 3.2 science GPA (with an upward trend) from WashU in Saint Louis, I'm not sure I have anything to offer to allopathic med schools...I should retake the MCAT and delay my application for a year so that I can send my senior year grades in, right?

Do you think I will have a chance going anywhere else but my state school, Jefferson Med in PA (I live in DE)? I'm not sure I do. I was thinking I should apply early decision to there next year to maximize my chances. I don't think I would be unhappy there. I do have good ec and research and I am a good person but I don't think they are reliable indicators of admission....

One more question, applying to the same med school twice hurts your app, right? So I should not apply to Jefferson this year and the next year if I don't get in, right?
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Your MCAT is within the range of the 373 matriculants from WashU over the last 3 years (30.7), but your GPA's are lower (3.6 overall, 3.5 science), depending upon the duration of your upward trend you might be competitive to schools who look at the entire application before making decisions. If you did apply this year, send an updated transcript at the end of the fall term to those schools so that they can see continued superior academics.

As for applying to a medical program more than once, I am not aware of any taboo there. In fact more often it is a plus if you submit as a competitive applicant, dont get in, and reapply. Prior to reapplication you can then ask schools for feedback as to where you might be able to strengthen your application for the reapp year. As for Jefferson, their entering MCATis a 31P with ~3.60 for GPA's. Their VR averages 10, but the range is 8-14 so you are in the game. A tipping point would be how solid your and continual the other components of your application appear to be to Jefferson. Based on the numbers of in-state residents who applied, were interviewed, and accepted I would think you to be in the realm of competitiveness. If you can get them to interview you, it appears that half of those interviewed get into the class.
 
Klipsch said:
First off, I would like to introduce myself. My name is Klipsch, 23, from Southern California. I am currently wrapping up the few last things necessary to finish my 5th and last year as an undergraduate student at UC-Irvine, majoring in Biological Science. I started my undergraduate career at UC-Riverside as an Undeclared/Undecided student and transferred to UC-Irvine my 2nd year. I officially declared myself a Biological Sciences major in my 3rd year.


Because of my insecurities and embarrassment, I will choose to withhold certain details until I find myself comfortable or in “good company.”


My long-term goal is to matriculate into Medical School.
My short-term goal, (which really means a lot to me right now), is to gain resources, particularly a Mentor, to help me and guide me in achieving my long-term goal.


In my 5 years as an undergraduate, I was never what you might consider to be a “good student.” The only times I felt I was a good student was during my 1st year at UC-Riverside (winter and spring quarters), where my goal was to transfer to UC-Irvine, and recently this summer, when reality hit me.


I look back at my grades and although I did enough to get my degree, I didn’t do enough to do significantly more after my life as an Undergraduate. Many circumstances arose, and I didn’t rise to the challenge, otherwise.


Right now, I’d like to talk to somebody, or at least get pointed in the right direction to WHO I can/should talk to about getting back on track.
Iv done a little bit of research, and I’m learning a little about Post Bacc Programs, SMPs etc… but I don’t know where I stand and which routes that I should realistically consider. I know there’s SOME other way to get where I want to be, I just need someone to shed a little light
.
I realize that I am leaving out a lot right now but, no offense to the community, but I don’t feel comfortable embarrassing myself publicly among so many people who are already doing what I WANT to do. In short, I feel inferior.


PS. If you’d like me to disclose more information, like an academic profile, I am willing to furnish one, just not publicly at the moment.
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I have been an admissions director for several years and have posted often to help applicants find their way. You are welcome to PM me to begin a discussion and, if you are comfortable, begin to let me know what is necessary to get you headed in the correct direction.
 
2BAnIDrNoMore said:
Should do a post bac or get a master's? I want to get a master's but I'm not sure if that will help my chances. I have a B.S. in Biology (3.2 gpa) and I've completed two years in another health professions school (2.5 gpa...it's hard to study something 24/7 when you have absolutely noooo interest in the field; I thought I did before I began) but left because I couldn't see myself working in this field for the rest of my career. So, I would like to know, what are my chances for being accepted into medical school and should I get a post bac or master's to improve my chances? If yes, which one and why? (i.e. why not the other one?) Thanks in advance! 👍
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In most cases it is better to do a 1-2 year MS in a basic science area to show that you can do very well in the academics of medical school. I often do not recommend an SMP to a student who has not shown strong academic ability because I view an SMP as an end game gambit. Do well and you have a chance, do average or worse and you are finished. The MS first, followed by the SMP (if needed) would be my suggestion.
 
ICUunocmeGIRL said:
I'm in a bit of a quandary. My MCAT is tomorrow and I would love your advice.

I'm a 25 yr-old who has been studying for the MCAT for about one year. The reason I've been studying for so long is because my undergrad gpa is a 3.2-3.3 from the University of Chicago and I know I need to make up for it. During this year, I've managed to go from a 14 MCAT score to a 28 with a ton of hardwork.

To be brief, my goal is to gain acceptance to a medical school, but at the same time, I would like to gain acceptance to ANY program (a special master's/carribean/anything outside of my current reality). However, my gut is telling me that I can do better and to not show a possible 28.

My questions are:
1) Should I take the exam with my stats and use them to apply to SMPs?
2) If you advise to wait, what should I consider to increase my chances -- ie., continue studying on my own (I've already been through the commercial classes and I've actually seen more improvement through self-studying), or take the GRE for those SMP's that accept them to create a more solid foundation in the sciences for the MCAT?

Everyone is telling me to JUST take it already, but I want to be certain of my decision (not regret taking it or not taking it) by being more informed.

I greatly appreciate your advice. I thank you in advance.
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IF you get a 28 on the MCAT that can be a competitive score for several MD programs. If the 28 is real (not practice), you might be best served by working to show more along the academic side by doing a full-time MS in a basic science area and doing very well. Over a recent 3 year period there were 291 U Chicago undergrads who got into an MD program with an MCAT average of 30.8 and GPA's of 3.4. Since you are a little below the average matriculant from your undergrad school, if you show strong academics in a science MS, and have done all of the other things along the realm of volunteerism, etc. You should be in the running for some interviews. My opinion is to reserve the SMP as the end-game option. Do well and you have a chance, do average or less and you are finished.
 
Ambrosha said:
Hello mentors,

Thank you very much for your contribution. I believe I just read a mentor post stating that shadowing is a volunteer experience. Is this the case in all instances, and should we delineate this on secondaries that ask for volunteering info? I had not included shadowing as part of my volunteering experience before. I never thought of it that way - I had assumed it would not be because the biggest impact of my shadowing was on me. For instance, I was not able to help out with anything really.

Secondly, I am applying to a large number of schools, and so my secondary applications have been sent in months apart- and I am still working on several. I am just wondering if you can give me a rough idea of the volume/numbers of interview invites that are sent each month after June till interview invites basically stop. I have not received invites from any schools, and for some I was complete in early to mid-July. I would like to get an idea of when I should be worried. Thank you very much!
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While shadowing a physician is a volunteer activity, I recommend that it be included separately in the Other Activities" portion of AMCAS since many schools will scan for shadowing, med vol, and comm svc vol.
 
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