False advertising by OD and OMD.

ucbsowarrior · Nov 24, 2005

Here we go again...two eyecare professionals (OMD&OD) who seem to be doing well in their career are dispensing inaccurate information to their community / patients for personal gain. I do not believe this is an honest mistake as both are well versed that only when there are conclusive studies, should a practioner make claims such as those below:

Myopia is a progressive imperfection that worsens with time. It is estimated by the time all eight year olds reach college, 60% of them will be suffering from myopia! Most of these children will use conventional glasses for their myopia. Unfortunately, use of glasses can often make the eyes worse! Parents now have an option to reverse and STOP this myopic progression and improve their childs vision with gas permeable rigid contacts and the CRT program. CRT is so safe and effective that it is fully FDA approved for children of all ages.

Trying to scare parent's and make them feel guilty that they aren't doing all they can for their kids - for the doctors' personal gain. This highly unethical and unprofessional behaviour.

There are inconclusive studies which ellude to the possibility that myopia could possibly be controlled, but there is not enough evidence at this point to draw any conclusions and more studies will be needed.

What these scum bags should be more concerned with is the axial length of the eye and how to control elongation, but what they are really concerned with is the fee of $1799. It saddens me to be in the same profession as these low lives.

CRT Treatment fee is only $1799 for both eyes. The fee includes the full, dilated comprehensive exam, all contact lenses, evaluation follow-up office visits for six months, and the final retainer pair, which the patient keeps.

here is the website http://www.flowersvision.com/procedures-crt.html

In addition, what even makes it worse is that these one of these guys serves on the board of his optometric community. this is a joke.

maybe this is all just an honest mistake, but i doubt it. it's time for the state board to do a little investigation.

SCUM BAG RATING: on the scumbag rating, i'll have to give these two 8.7 out of 10.0

Q. What do the rest of you ods/omds think about this???

-for the pre-ops that don't follow what i'm talking about all you need to know is that when you graduate you'll be floating in an ocean of scumbags, and your job is to try to destroy them- it's kinda like a videogame :idea:

kiseki · Nov 24, 2005

hi ucbsowarrior,

i'm a preopt so i'm not as well-versed in these topics, but i was actually wondering about this topic recently as well. if i heard correctly - is CRT basically orthokeratology? on one hand, i've heard bad stories about how optometrists seem to encourage ortho-k solely to gain more money. it especially worried me when i heard that the son of someone i work in a lab with on campus was told by his optometrist that he needed ortho-k AND glasses?! i understand it was for cosmetic reasons, but at the same time, it seemed kind of unreasonable (and very costly i would presume...). i don't know the full details of how high his prescription actually is, or if he has other conditions...but i also asked the optometrist i volunteer for about this and she didn't seem concerned about the situation...also the advertising on the site u mentioned seems to make it sound like CRT would completely correct a person's vision and "without corrective lenses" - but aren't patients still wearing corrective lenses at nighttime for this procedure? i've also heard instances about how ortho-k (not necessarily CRT, since it's newer i guess it's safer?) has risks and may worsen a patient's vision permanently if done incorrectly...?

anyways, just wanted to know your thoughts about this. sorry if i'm wayyy off topic. >.< but thanks in advance for any input.

ucbsowarrior said:
Here we go again...two eyecare professionals (OMD&OD) who seem to be doing well in their career are dispensing inaccurate information to their community / patients for personal gain. I do not believe this is an honest mistake as both are well versed that only when there are conclusive studies, should a practioner make claims such as those below:

Myopia is a progressive imperfection that worsens with time. It is estimated by the time all eight year olds reach college, 60% of them will be suffering from myopia! Most of these children will use conventional glasses for their myopia. Unfortunately, use of glasses can often make the eyes worse! Parents now have an option to reverse and STOP this myopic progression and improve their childs vision with gas permeable rigid contacts and the CRT program. CRT is so safe and effective that it is fully FDA approved for children of all ages.

Trying to scare parent's and make them feel guilty that they aren't doing all they can for their kids - for the doctors' personal gain. This highly unethical and unprofessional behaviour.

There are inconclusive studies which ellude to the possibility that myopia could possibly be controlled, but there is not enough evidence at this point to draw any conclusions and more studies will be needed.

What these scum bags should be more concerned with is the axial length of the eye and how to control elongation, but what they are really concerned with is the fee of $1799. It saddens me to be in the same profession as these low lives.

CRT Treatment fee is only $1799 for both eyes. The fee includes the full, dilated comprehensive exam, all contact lenses, evaluation follow-up office visits for six months, and the final retainer pair, which the patient keeps.

here is the website http://www.flowersvision.com/procedures-crt.html

In addition, what even makes it worse is that these one of these guys serves on the board of his optometric community. this is a joke.

maybe this is all just an honest mistake, but i doubt it. it's time for the state board to do a little investigation.

SCUM BAG RATING: on the scumbag rating, i'll have to give these two 8.7 out of 10.0

Q. What do the rest of you ods/omds think about this???

-for the pre-ops that don't follow what i'm talking about all you need to know is that when you graduate you'll be floating in an ocean of scumbags, and your job is to try to destroy them- it's kinda like a videogame

jchod · Nov 24, 2005

ucbsowarrior said:
There are inconclusive studies which ellude to the possibility that myopia could possibly be controlled, but there is not enough evidence at this point to draw any conclusions and more studies will be needed.

What these scum bags should be more concerned with is the axial length of the eye and how to control elongation, but what they are really concerned with is the fee of $1799. It saddens me to be in the same profession as these low lives.

Actually, to further your argument, there are conclusive studies by the NEI "Researchers also found that rigid gas permeable contact lenses do not slow the growth of the eye, which is responsible for the majority of myopia in children. Instead of slowing the growth of the eye, rigid gas permeable contact lenses kept the cornea (the clear tissue at the front of the eye underneath a contact lens) from changing shape more than soft contact lenses. The change in the cornea is not likely to be a permanent change, so the effect of rigid gas permeable contact lenses on myopia progression may not be permanent. "
Link:http://www.nei.nih.gov/neitrials/viewStudyWeb.aspx?id=81

AND from the Paragon CRT website "Corneal Refractive Therapy is a non-surgical process clinically developed to reshape the cornea while you sleep. The result is the temporary correction of myopia with or without moderate astigmatism. "
Link:http://www.paragoncrt.com/consumers/index.asp

Temporary. As you have pointed out what they seem to be implying is indeed misleading at best.

canuck_OD · Nov 24, 2005

Let me start by saying that I preferm CRT / orthokeratology in my practice. Let me follow up by saing that I do not or will not tell patients that OK or RGPs will stop myopic progression. However reading the studies, there are some questions that need to be followed up. Yes there was no statistically significant reduction in myopic progression between the groups, however RGP/OK wearers did still show less progression. That being said I think it's completely unethical to sell CRT on that fact.

However let's not start undermining the benefits of CRT. It is a non-surgical alternative to laser surgery. Yes it still requires wearing a lens, but only while sleeping. No specs and daytime CLs. Why would someone want this .. well how about patients that can't sucessfully wear SCLs because of dryness? How about patients that are myopic and are active in sports ... are glasses going to work ... not likely ... contact lense are ok ... but it doesn't compare to vision without any corrective device in the eye .. and can someone say aquatic/water sports? My patients who are doing CRT love it and wonder why no one else has given them this option before.

The thread topic is NOT about bashing ortho-K .... it's about misadvertising ..... I'd appreciate those who don't know enough about the procedure to educate themselves a bit more before ignorantly dismissing this procedure.

ucbsowarrior said:
Here we go again...two eyecare professionals (OMD&OD) who seem to be doing well in their career are dispensing inaccurate information to their community / patients for personal gain. I do not believe this is an honest mistake as both are well versed that only when there are conclusive studies, should a practioner make claims such as those below:

Myopia is a progressive imperfection that worsens with time. It is estimated by the time all eight year olds reach college, 60% of them will be suffering from myopia! Most of these children will use conventional glasses for their myopia. Unfortunately, use of glasses can often make the eyes worse! Parents now have an option to reverse and STOP this myopic progression and improve their childs vision with gas permeable rigid contacts and the CRT program. CRT is so safe and effective that it is fully FDA approved for children of all ages.

Trying to scare parent's and make them feel guilty that they aren't doing all they can for their kids - for the doctors' personal gain. This highly unethical and unprofessional behaviour.

There are inconclusive studies which ellude to the possibility that myopia could possibly be controlled, but there is not enough evidence at this point to draw any conclusions and more studies will be needed.

What these scum bags should be more concerned with is the axial length of the eye and how to control elongation, but what they are really concerned with is the fee of $1799. It saddens me to be in the same profession as these low lives.

CRT Treatment fee is only $1799 for both eyes. The fee includes the full, dilated comprehensive exam, all contact lenses, evaluation follow-up office visits for six months, and the final retainer pair, which the patient keeps.

here is the website http://www.flowersvision.com/procedures-crt.html

In addition, what even makes it worse is that these one of these guys serves on the board of his optometric community. this is a joke.

maybe this is all just an honest mistake, but i doubt it. it's time for the state board to do a little investigation.

SCUM BAG RATING: on the scumbag rating, i'll have to give these two 8.7 out of 10.0

Q. What do the rest of you ods/omds think about this???

-for the pre-ops that don't follow what i'm talking about all you need to know is that when you graduate you'll be floating in an ocean of scumbags, and your job is to try to destroy them- it's kinda like a videogame

ucbsowarrior · Nov 24, 2005

canuck_OD said:
Let me start by saying that I preferm CRT / orthokeratology in my practice. Let me follow up by saing that I do not or will not tell patients that OK or RGPs will stop myopic progression. However reading the studies, there are some questions that need to be followed up. Yes there was no statistically significant reduction in myopic progression between the groups, however RGP/OK wearers did still show less progression. That being said I think it's completely unethical to sell CRT on that fact.

However let's not start undermining the benefits of CRT. It is a non-surgical alternative to laser surgery. Yes it still requires wearing a lens, but only while sleeping. No specs and daytime CLs. Why would someone want this .. well how about patients that can't sucessfully wear SCLs because of dryness? How about patients that are myopic and are active in sports ... are glasses going to work ... not likely ... contact lense are ok ... but it doesn't compare to vision without any corrective device in the eye .. and can someone say aquatic/water sports? My patients who are doing CRT love it and wonder why no one else has given them this option before.

The thread topic is NOT about bashing ortho-K .... it's about misadvertising ..... I'd appreciate those who don't know enough about the procedure to educate themselves a bit more before ignorantly dismissing this procedure.

hey there, you got it all wrong. no one said that ok or crt was bad, but ods/omds need to tell patients what conclusive studies have proven. not what you think and know what some ho hum study thinks. why don't you go out an buy a hummer to drive...it has been proven in inconclusive studies that this car is safer than most in collisions! you see my point, what you think is irrelavant, b/c they are not based on solid facts that can be quantified with any type of statistical significance....should a parent that cannot afford to give their kid CRT feel bad, BECAUSE THEY AREN'T PREVENTING THE PROGRESSING OF MYOPIA - this is bs...and should those who can afford it be mislead????

Canuck_OD you are taking things too personal, b/c i know that you have ALSO told patients or their parents that crt can prevent the progression of myopia and this has aided in the selling of crt/ok lenses in your practice. you too are hiding.....YOU ARE A SCUM BAG just like those two guys i point out, but deep down inside you think you're a good person....GET REAL AND STOP LYING TO YOUR PATIENTS AND YOURSELF AND WRITE A LETTER TO EVERY PARENT/PATIENT THAT YOU'VE DOOPED THEM IN PROVIDING INCONCLUSIVE INFORMATION FOR PERSONAL GAIN

you need to get a life dude. :laugh:

ok...ok...i'll give you a break.

Scum bag rating for Canuck_od: 7.65 out of 10

ps. no one is bashing ortho-k or crt - i'm just bashing guys like you who are hiding behind who you really are - please look in the mirror! goto church and repent :scared:

ariel winter · Nov 24, 2005

please keep this forum constructive. your calling other people names do not prove a point, nor does it give strength to your stance. if you have something personal to say to others, please PM them; this board is not the place to vent your frustrations.
thanks

ucbsowarrior said:
hey there, you got it all wrong. no one said that ok or crt was bad, but ods/omds need to tell patients what conclusive studies have proven. not what you think and know what some ho hum study thinks. why don't you go out an buy a hummer to drive...it has been proven in inconclusive studies that this car is safer than most in collisions! you see my point, what you think is irrelavant, b/c they are not based on solid facts that can be quantified with any type of statistical significance....should a parent that cannot afford to give their kid CRT feel bad, BECAUSE THEY AREN'T PREVENTING THE PROGRESSING OF MYOPIA - this is bs...and should those who can afford it be mislead????

Canuck_OD you are taking things too person, b/c i know that you have ALSO told patients or their parents that crt can prevent the progression of myopia and this has aided in the selling of crt/ok lenses in your practice. you too are hiding.....YOU ARE A SCUM BAG just like those two guys i point out, but deep down inside you think you're a good person....GET REAL AND STOP LYING TO YOUR PATIENTS AND YOURSELF AND WRITE A LETTER TO EVERY PARENT/PATIENT THAT YOU'VE DOOPED THEM IN PROVIDED INCONCLUSIVE INFORMATION FOR PERSONAL GAIN

you need to get a life dude.

ok...ok...i'll give you a break.

Scum bag rating for Canuck_od: 7.65 out of 10

ps. no one is bashing ortho-k or crt - i'm just bashing guys like you who are hiding behind who you really are - please look in the mirror! goto church and repent

ucbsowarrior · Nov 24, 2005

ariel winter said:
please keep this forum constructive. your calling other people names do not prove a point, nor does it give strength to your stance. if you have something personal to say to others, please PM them; this board is not the place to vent your frustrations.
thanks

I'll have to agree with you on this one. No one's venting any frustrations.

I'm going to tone down on the powerslams, name calling and ease off on the scum bag rating (but i know i'm accurate)

thanks again!

canuck_OD · Nov 24, 2005

My comments were directed at kiseiki .... regarding the ortho-k procedure. How is it that you know how I counsel my patients? This forum is really meant for constructive discussions about optometry and pre-optometry. Name calling and rhetoric really doesn't help anyone understand what ortho-k is and why someone graduating with an OD degree should fit OK lenses. I'll leave it at that and it'll be my last post addressing this topic. If anyone is interested in CRT and orthoK please feel free to contact me, especially those who are interested the "cornea and contact lens" aspect of practice. It's an area where optometrists have done most of the R&D in developping and advancing this procedure.

ucbsowarrior said:
I'll have to agree with you on this one. No one's venting any frustrations.

I'm going to tone down on the powerslams, name calling and ease off on the scum bag rating (but i know i'm accurate)

thanks again!

PDT4CNV · Nov 25, 2005

ucbsowarrior said:
Here we go again...two eyecare professionals (OMD&OD) who seem to be doing well in their career are dispensing inaccurate information to their community / patients for personal gain. I do not believe this is an honest mistake as both are well versed that only when there are conclusive studies, should a practioner make claims such as those below:

Myopia is a progressive imperfection that worsens with time. It is estimated by the time all eight year olds reach college, 60% of them will be suffering from myopia! Most of these children will use conventional glasses for their myopia. Unfortunately, use of glasses can often make the eyes worse! Parents now have an option to reverse and STOP this myopic progression and improve their childs vision with gas permeable rigid contacts and the CRT program. CRT is so safe and effective that it is fully FDA approved for children of all ages.

I certainly agree, these claims certainly stretch the truth. However, I would just like to point out that this treatment modality is something that those who use it must "sell." It is no different than a lawyer who sells his services on tv, or the LASIK surgeon who advertises, or plastic surgeon with a giant ad on the back of the phone book, or bariatric physician with huge billboard on side of the highway, etc.. But once again, I think you are right, some of their statements do not reflect what most eye care professionals believe is true.

cpw · Nov 25, 2005

ucbsowarrior said:
I'll have to agree with you on this one. No one's venting any frustrations.

I'm going to tone down on the powerslams, name calling and ease off on the scum bag rating (but i know i'm accurate)

thanks again!

yes, please do tone it down.

Ortho-K has a place in practice. It is useful like, canuck-OD said for some patients. It is a valid treatment option and using it does NOT make someone a 'scumbag'.

Yes, some people do market it incorrectly. But, unless you're in the room when they counsel patients... you have no right to judge.

ucbsowarrior · Nov 25, 2005

PDT4CNV said:
I certainly agree, these claims certainly stretch the truth. However, I would just like to point out that this treatment modality is something that those who use it must "sell." It is no different than a lawyer who sells his services on tv, or the LASIK surgeon who advertises, or plastic surgeon with a giant ad on the back of the phone book, or bariatric physician with huge billboard on side of the highway, etc.. But once again, I think you are right, some of their statements do not reflect what most eye care professionals believe is true.

Well put, ok/crt works, but let's all be honest when we provide any services to our patients. we must remember why we are in the eyecare? eye+care go side by side, if ods cannot provide honest care for the public/patients, they should exit this profession and become used cars salesmen/saleswomen...

..where their underhanded tactics would be more expected.

Let's stay on track and remember what this post is about? ethics, honesty and not personal gain. it's not about weather o-k/crt works or not....i'll save that for another post

...it's about what has been proven via the scientific community...otherwise why don't a few of you ods out there start employing iridiology in your office???

xmattODx · Nov 25, 2005

ucbsowarrior said:
Let's stay on track and remember what this post is about? ethics, honesty and not personal gain. it's not about weather o-k/crt works or not....i'll save that for another post ...it's about what has been proven via the scientific community...otherwise why don't a few of you ods out there start employing iridiology in your office???

Another question implied in your orginal post is what is myopia and how is it caused? Care to educate us ucbsowarrior?

drmhyde · Nov 27, 2005

Dr. Smith at UCHO is doing some really interesting work with primates. It appears that there is an unknown mechinism that takes place in the peripherial retina . It appears that accomodation somehow causes axial elongation thus producing ever increasing myopia. I can't remember the entire lecture but I do remember him saying myopes with eso at near should be put in PAL's as this has statisticlly shown reduction in the total amount of myopic progression. CRT or any ortho-k product is reversible when the patient stops wearing the lens. It really hasn't shown an arrest of myopic progression so I'd say..yes..the add is misleading.
I'd say in the future we'll probabbly be treating myopia with topicals. Neat stuff comming in the future!

ucbsowarrior · Dec 1, 2005

xmattODx said:
Another question implied in your orginal post is what is myopia and how is it caused? Care to educate us ucbsowarrior?

No

ucbsowarrior · Dec 1, 2005

drmhyde said:
Dr. Smith at UCHO is doing some really interesting work with primates. It appears that there is an unknown mechinism that takes place in the peripherial retina . It appears that accomodation somehow causes axial elongation thus producing ever increasing myopia. I can't remember the entire lecture but I do remember him saying myopes with eso at near should be put in PAL's as this has statisticlly shown reduction in the total amount of myopic progression. CRT or any ortho-k product is reversible when the patient stops wearing the lens. It really hasn't shown an arrest of myopic progression so I'd say..yes..the add is misleading.
I'd say in the future we'll probabbly be treating myopia with topicals. Neat stuff comming in the future!

Dr. Smith may be furthering the research...but myopic eso's with near adds have been proven to be benificial in many studies and is noted in many bv text books. This is nothing new, but I'm happy there is continued research in this area.

ucbsowarrior · Dec 7, 2005

xmattODx said:
Another question implied in your orginal post is what is myopia and how is it caused? Care to educate us ucbsowarrior?

The answer is multifactorial and beyond the scope of this post - which is about misleading the public for personal gain with the aid of false advertising; I've studied the etiologies of refractive errors in depth and this would be best left for the classroom. However, if you have a simple answer to your question I'm all ears

Look forward to hearing your reply :idea:

alohaknight1 · Dec 8, 2005

xmattODx said:
Another question implied in your orginal post is what is myopia and how is it caused? Care to educate us ucbsowarrior?

Hmmm... may want to do some more research before some of your interviews if you're not already in...

Myopia is nearsightedness.

May also want to look into hyperopia and presbyopia.

xmattODx · Dec 8, 2005

alohaknight1 said:
Hmmm... may want to do some more research before some of your interviews if you're not already in...

Myopia is nearsightedness.

May also want to look into hyperopia and presbyopia.

Ummmm.... I think you misunderstood the question.

prettygreeneyes · Dec 8, 2005

alohaknight1 said:
Hmmm... may want to do some more research before some of your interviews if you're not already in...

Myopia is nearsightedness.

May also want to look into hyperopia and presbyopia.

Ummm...yeah, he's already an optometrist... Hopefully an interviewer wouldn't expect a PRE-optometry student to have an in-depth knowledge of refractive errors, that is kinda what optometry school is for... isn't it?

False advertising by OD and OMD.

ucbsowarrior

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