"Medicine isn't worth it anymore" ~M.D.

Academic medical faculty here I come...

I hear this sometimes from docs, but never from docs that had a different career before entering medicine. I've been in the work force for a LONG time and will say there is bs everywhere. Next time a doc says something like that, ask if he / she ever had another career (not just a college job) before going to med school.

lilmissangel said:

This ER doc I work with just told me (literally 10 mins ago) that if he could do it all over again he wouldn't.
"Wouldn't become an ER doc?"
"Wouldn't become a doctor"
I asked him what he would become instead and he said he'd just get a regular job. I asked why and he said because theres too much s**t to deal with, like lawsuits and administration etc. (I don't know what etc is).
He asked me if I wanted to have a family and I said yes, and he just shook his head and said his wife is a pediatrician but stays at home watching the kids.
Hmmmmm...Well that was a little depressing. Just thought I'd share. Anymore had similar experiences recently? (Or an opposite experience would be even nicer to hear about.)

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There are several threads like this in the "general residency" section of SDN. People just kept making more and more negative comments. It was sad, but those people had more experience than me, so my points came to a mute.

But bear in mind that when people post on SDN, we tend to make somewhat negative post to vent off our distress or anger. We seldom make positive comments.

The same happens in the osteopathic SDN forum. People think their school is better than the rest, so they attack another school.

SDN is great, but it's got a downside to

tc13 said:

I hear this sometimes from docs, but never from docs that had a different career before entering medicine. I've been in the work force for a LONG time and will say there is bs everywhere. Next time a doc says something like that, ask if he / she ever had another career (not just a college job) before going to med school.

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Hmm... good pt. I'll bear that it mind

lilmissangel said:

This ER doc I work with just told me (literally 10 mins ago) that if he could do it all over again he wouldn't.
"Wouldn't become an ER doc?"
"Wouldn't become a doctor"
I asked him what he would become instead and he said he'd just get a regular job. I asked why and he said because theres too much s**t to deal with, like lawsuits and administration etc. (I don't know what etc is).
He asked me if I wanted to have a family and I said yes, and he just shook his head and said his wife is a pediatrician but stays at home watching the kids.
I asked him Hmmmmm...Well that was a little depressing. Just thought I'd share. Anymore had similar experiences recently? (Or an opposite experience would be even nicer to hear about.)

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I also post on another dr board but I won't name it since that might be against the rules here. They have a really long thread about why they all don't like thier jobs anymore and if they could do it over again they wouldn't.

I have also heard of students who knew it wasn't for them after a few years in med school, but they were so far in debt from loans they had to finish.

I just think that it is so important that you go into medicine b/c it is what you love and you can't imagine doing anything else, not b/c of the money. If you go in for the money then you will most likely wind up just like them. If there is something else you can picture yourself doing then explore that option before you dedicate your life to medicine.

It can be depressing for us but keep your head up! There are people of all professions who hate their job.

lilmissangel said:

This ER doc I work with just told me (literally 10 mins ago) that if he could do it all over again he wouldn't.
"Wouldn't become an ER doc?"
"Wouldn't become a doctor"
I asked him what he would become instead and he said he'd just get a regular job. I asked why and he said because theres too much s**t to deal with, like lawsuits and administration etc. (I don't know what etc is).
He asked me if I wanted to have a family and I said yes, and he just shook his head and said his wife is a pediatrician but stays at home watching the kids.
Hmmmmm...Well that was a little depressing. Just thought I'd share. Anymore had similar experiences recently? (Or an opposite experience would be even nicer to hear about.)

Click to expand...

Do you mean, his wife was a pediatrician and now, instead of practicing, just stays at home to look after the kids? Yeah, that is pretty sad, but I've heard of this happening a lot. It's depressing, but then you hear about the doctors who love what they're doing, the MD couples who have made it work (without resorting to having one or the other stay at home full-time) and it makes you realize that it's possible to have things work out, you just have to find the right field for you, the right hospital with the right hours, the right person to marry, etc. and keep a positive attitude for now

lilmissangel said:

This ER doc I work with just told me (literally 10 mins ago) that if he could do it all over again he wouldn't.
"Wouldn't become an ER doc?"
"Wouldn't become a doctor"
I asked him what he would become instead and he said he'd just get a regular job. I asked why and he said because theres too much s**t to deal with, like lawsuits and administration etc. (I don't know what etc is).
He asked me if I wanted to have a family and I said yes, and he just shook his head and said his wife is a pediatrician but stays at home watching the kids.
Hmmmmm...Well that was a little depressing. Just thought I'd share. Anymore had similar experiences recently? (Or an opposite experience would be even nicer to hear about.)

Click to expand...

I don't know, I have a "regular" job and deal with tons of administrative BS, work long hours (usually 7:30am - 6pm --although I do still have to check out the web pretty regularly ), work most weekends, have years of training (not as much as an MD, obviously), deal with bosses that are total dip****s, etc. and I make about 20% of what the average MD makes. I am willing to bet if he had a regular job he'd find far more to complain about.
I have shadowed an ER doc here in Portland for awhile now and he gets bent out of shape some days because he thinks his job is sooooo frustrating..... I have to laugh because it doesn't even approach the level of frustration I deal with in my job. The problem is so many MD went straight from college to med school without experiencing BS in the real world, so they think their jobs suck, even though every jobs sucks in different ways. You just have to find something that is personally satisfying enough that you can cope with the annoying ****.

tc13 said:

I hear this sometimes from docs, but never from docs that had a different career before entering medicine. I've been in the work force for a LONG time and will say there is bs everywhere. Next time a doc says something like that, ask if he / she ever had another career (not just a college job) before going to med school.

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agree! I also think bs can be very visible in healthcare professions because, whether we like to say it or not, healthcare is very bureaucratic and sometimes even aristocratic. I have been working in academic medicine for a while now and have concluded that administrative politic is just unavoidable.

And the chances of that happening? Sort of like evolution right? lol

star22 said:

I don't know, I have a "regular" job and deal with tons of administrative BS, work long hours (usually 7:30am - 6pm --although I do still have to check out the web pretty regularly ), work most weekends, have years of training (not as much as an MD, obviously), deal with bosses that are total dip****s, etc. and I make about 20% of what the average MD makes. I am willing to bet if he had a regular job he'd find far more to complain about.
I have shadowed an ER doc here in Portland for awhile now and he gets bent out of shape some days because he thinks his job is sooooo frustrating..... I have to laugh because it doesn't even approach the level of frustration I deal with in my job. The problem is so many MD went straight from college to med school without experiencing BS in the real world, so they think their jobs suck, even though every jobs sucks in different ways. You just have to find something that is personally satisfying enough that you can cope with the annoying ****.

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I couldn't imagine anything more gratifying than being a physician; but I also think medicine is very dysfunctional at this point: 20-30 years behind the rest of society in denial clutching to a time of greater prosperity and prestige (or so I here) instead of evolving...if I could offer any advice to incoming medical students I wouldn't discourage you from coming to medical school but try to avoid blind ambition, cultivate interests outside medicine, and recognize that despite the dogma sometimes preached in med school, society doesn't expect you to be a completely selfless altruist who must be perfect at all times, work ridiculous hours, etc

star22 said:

I don't know, I have a "regular" job and deal with tons of administrative BS, work long hours (usually 7:30am - 6pm --although I do still have to check out the web pretty regularly ), work most weekends, have years of training (not as much as an MD, obviously), deal with bosses that are total dip****s, etc. and I make about 20% of what the average MD makes. I am willing to bet if he had a regular job he'd find far more to complain about.
I have shadowed an ER doc here in Portland for awhile now and he gets bent out of shape some days because he thinks his job is sooooo frustrating..... I have to laugh because it doesn't even approach the level of frustration I deal with in my job. The problem is so many MD went straight from college to med school without experiencing BS in the real world, so they think their jobs suck, even though every jobs sucks in different ways. You just have to find something that is personally satisfying enough that you can cope with the annoying ****.

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I agree. I was a TBMCS system administrator.

I can't express my hatred for that job. Needless to say I went into computers for the money. Computers are the future!

tc13 said:

I hear this sometimes from docs, but never from docs that had a different career before entering medicine. I've been in the work force for a LONG time and will say there is bs everywhere. Next time a doc says something like that, ask if he / she ever had another career (not just a college job) before going to med school.

Click to expand...

GREAT POINT! Although I'm sur ethere are some really crappy parts, they see their business friends out and about, when really their life isn't that much better.

business:
pros: you make a ****load of money
cons: high risk, possibly = stress, probaby end up working for some private company after you're done doing something hardcore like ibanking, not as fun.
medicine: almost guaranteed uppermiddle class lifestyle (permitting if you graduate with low debt, and you do this by going to cheap state school, and state school med), more respect (questionable), more rewarding personally.

i like medicine more because I think it is a well-balanced career. You could spend your life doing business, but i would think most of us here would get bored of doing a lot of paperwork all the time (not that medicine isn't deluged with large quantities of paperwork). If you go to an undergraduate with little to no debt + go to a med. school that is cheap (i.e. your state med. school) you would be in debt like 150k.

example: 4 years of undergrad - 10,000 dollar debt + state med. school (tution at 17,000 dollars + 15,000 dollars for personal costs = 32,000 dollars total per year x 4 = 128,000 dollars) so a total of like 138,000 dollars + rising costs of education and other crap ~ 150,000 dollars total.

now say you're not at the top of your med. school class, but you're not at the bottom (say you're the average med. school student). Odds are you can match into something like anesthesiology, pathology, ER where you're banking in like 210,000 dollars a year. After taxes and ****, make it like 105,000 dollars a year you're actually bringing in. Say you pay like 20,000 dollars of your debt a year, that is like 7 years to pay off your debt. Then all you have left is your home mortgage/retiremnet/family.

So say you actually start working when you're 28. And for a general figure, say you pay off your debt when you are 37. You'll be making like 120,000 dollars in cash (after taxes and stuff) if you go into the right specialty (which doesn't translate into the hardest to get into or highstress job). If you go into something like pathology you're working like 40 hours a week and banking in 210,000 dollars a year with the hospital probably paying for your malpractice.

And if your parents give you some money as well (i.e. through a will/trust) that may reduce the cost a bit as well.

You start making serious cash when you hit your 30s and you continue to do so until you hit the 50s and 60s. And when you get older, you will probably reduce the hours quite a bit.

This post isn't that organized, and i'm probably rambling at this point but whateva.

Point is: Medicine isn't as bad as it seems permiting you go into the right specialty (one that makes a lot of money + low hours + and you can reasonably tolerate the work). But then again if you're a workaholic you may want to go into some special highclass surgery specialty (but at what cost? Family/friends/lost time/etc). I know i want my life to be balanced and i'm basically going to be condensing all of life's worries and problems into 4 years of med. school, whereas the majority of society is gonna spread out their problems throughout life instead of all at once. I.E. 4 years of hell (really 3 years since 4th year of med. school is an easy year), versus 40 years of the average person's worries.

lilmissangel said:

This ER doc I work with just told me (literally 10 mins ago) that if he could do it all over again he wouldn't.
"Wouldn't become an ER doc?"
"Wouldn't become a doctor"
I asked him what he would become instead and he said he'd just get a regular job. I asked why and he said because theres too much s**t to deal with, like lawsuits and administration etc. (I don't know what etc is).
He asked me if I wanted to have a family and I said yes, and he just shook his head and said his wife is a pediatrician but stays at home watching the kids.
Hmmmmm...Well that was a little depressing. Just thought I'd share. Anymore had similar experiences recently? (Or an opposite experience would be even nicer to hear about.)

Click to expand...

I hear this stuff a lot from older physicians. They complained how they don't have a ot time with their family. And it is even harder if husband and wife are physicians. No one is there to take care of their children. Well...someone has to stay home to take care of the kids? one of them has to make the sacrifice.
Anyway, sme of the physician told me that the only reason why they are still in medicine because they want to pay the debt(some people owe over 200K.).

great thread.

also remember each specialty has different medical issues, work hours, adminstrative time, paperwork, reimbursement, patient population, and so forth... it can get quite different!! so it also depends what speciality you choose and if it fits your personality and your "annoyance" quota. (think urology vs. dermatology vs. In vitro fertilization vs. pediatrics vs. pain medicine.... etc)

when you are in med school, make sure you look / explore carefully and do it after considering all these issues. find positive mentors (who have been "successful" in some way) and listen to the negative viewpoints, learning from both! better to be not surprised!

Panda Bear said:

Hey, whether you like medicine depends on your specialty and how well you enjoy it. If I had had to stay in The Specialty That Dare Not Speak Its Name I would have definitely told you that it hadn't been worth it and that it had been a mistake to go to medical school, especially considering that I had a decent career before I went which might not have paid as much but didn't leave me with a quarter of a million in debt and seven years of lost or reduced income making the opportunity cost of medical school and residency close to half a million bucks.

Up until I successfully re-matched into Emergency Medicine this year I had pretty much spent the whole year dreading the possibilty that I would have to either quit medicine or spend my career as a Keeper of the Sacred Flame in the Specialty That Dare Not Speak Its Name.

I feel a lot better about about things now.

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yo panda bear that was an excellent comment you made in your blog

Panda Bear said:

I will tell you unequivocally that I would have rather stayed as a Structural Engineer than spent the rest of my life in the Specialty That Dare Not Speak Its Name. I was also actively looking for positions with biomed companies before I, thank God, matched into Emergency Medicine.

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if you cannnot speak its name, can you at least describe the horrors of this specialty?

I think its important to remember the source here folks.

I work in a level 1 trauma center emergency department and alot of the EM docs I work with complain about how much the ER gets abused as a primary care office for medicaid pts, burnout, liability concerns, malpractice insurance, decreasing reimbursements, etc.

Every profession has its drawbacks and no job is perfect (well, except maybe the guys who are about to get drafted in the first round... but even thats not perfect). You just have to weigh the pros and the cons.

Panda Bear said:

Hey, whether you like medicine depends on your specialty and how well you enjoy it. If I had had to stay in The Specialty That Dare Not Speak Its Name I would have definitely told you that it hadn't been worth it and that it had been a mistake to go to medical school, especially considering that I had a decent career before I went which might not have paid as much but didn't leave me with a quarter of a million in debt and seven years of lost or reduced income making the opportunity cost of medical school and residency close to half a million bucks.

Up until I successfully re-matched into Emergency Medicine this year I had pretty much spent the whole year dreading the possibilty that I would have to either quit medicine or spend my career as a Keeper of the Sacred Flame in the Specialty That Dare Not Speak Its Name.

I feel a lot better about about things now.

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I agree that it depends on your specialty and how well you choose it (as well as learning that there is BS EVERYWHERE in the real world). I have been considering my resiency choice (using a very good tool, AAMC Careers in Medicine [your med school can give you a password]) and have met with 3 different Neurologists about their choice of residency, the good the bad, the ugly. And even after complaining about the BS they don't like for qute some time, they still love what they are doing and would do it all over again because, to paraphrase, they couldn't imagine themselves doing anything else. So not everyone is unhappy. Choose your school and your specialty CAREFULLY!!!

masterMood said:

if you cannnot speak its name, can you at least describe the horrors of this specialty?

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im kinda interested in what is too

Well its a shame that people know who you really are though (well a select few) You might want to change your user name

I think a major point we all have to keep in mind is that on these forums and from the doctors that we talk to, ITS MUCH EASIER TO TALK ABOUT THE NEGATIVE ASPECTS OF LIFE THAN THE POSITIVE ONES! Everyone has a tendency to remember things that are negative in nature, and echoes stronger in our minds.

Ever notice how when you're not paying attention to someone, and then they say something that is very important/threatening, your mind keys into it? We're nitpicking about all the aspects of medicine that are bad but we're giving the good parts a fair story.

This isn't a little kid's story where everything turns out perfect, because in reality there is no career that is 100% perfect. Heck, even if you're a bum that won the lotto, you're still gonna be miserable because you have nothing else to show for it. Or if you're the president of the united states, ha ha not going there nvm.

As long are you are realistic about medicine, and not so gung-ho about the "lifesaving/noble" crap that TV is so apt at doing, then you will realize that medicine is a job that you can appreciate, but also realize the practical/mundane aspects of being a physician.

As always, just be an informed consumer, and know what you're getting into. For instance, I'd love to go into surgery, but I just don't feel like its worth my time to sacrifice the other aspects of life (a family). Because when it all comes down to it, it's only a job. Very rarely can one person make a huge impact on medicine. It's gonna be the government, the medical researchers, and amount of money thats really going to matter for society as a whole.

tc13 said:

I hear this sometimes from docs, but never from docs that had a different career before entering medicine. I've been in the work force for a LONG time and will say there is bs everywhere. Next time a doc says something like that, ask if he / she ever had another career (not just a college job) before going to med school.

Click to expand...

Actually, folks who have changed careers to medicine generally have often done a lot more homework in terms of researching what they are "in for" than someone in undergrad who cannot even conceptualize how many hours a week is going to be a lot. So the lack of complaints from that crowd just means that group has done a bigger degree of self selection, not that all careers are ultimately equally sucky.
Lots of jobs do have bs, long hours, etc., but there are certainly lots of careers that afford more flexibility in terms of hours and lifestyle and are more family friendly than medicine. Don't delude yourself into thinking that you won't have to compromise certain things -- everybody does. The field is certainly a better one for workaholics who love being at the office 24/7 than for those who place more value on large quantities of R&R. Usually the complainers are those who are solidly in the latter camp, and had unrealistic expectations going in.

I've met both ends of the spectrum. Some docs I know say "do something else." Others jump out of bed in the morning ready to go to the hospital. I think if you go into medicine knowing the cons, and still decide to do it, you have a pretty good shot of being happy. I know about the hours, the scut work, the paper work, the HMOs, but I think that on the balence the pros for me out weigh the cons. Some current docs are disatisfied because when they entered teh field in the late 70s/80s, they had these expectations based on what medicine was like in the 60s. Things changed, the system got more demanding. But if your expectations match the current realities and you still want to be a doc your chances of being unhappy are much less.
I think it is fair to say that for some people, they should never have gone into medicine. But I don't think that should negitively influence others who are thinking about going into the field. There are teachers, mechanics, soccer coaches who have days when they wish they had done something else. There are disatisfied people everywhere. The big difference is that in medicine those people tend to stick with it becuase they have invested so long and the pay is decent.
I've been working in the field for seven years now. There are days when I just want to go home, when I get frustrated. But I still love the work and I think I'll still be happy to have patients 40 years from now.

Ben

Law2Doc said:

Actually, folks who have changed careers to medicine generally have often done a lot more homework in terms of researching what they are "in for" than someone in undergrad who cannot even conceptualize how many hours a week is going to be a lot. So the lack of complaints from that crowd just means that group has done a bigger degree of self selection, not that all careers are ultimately equally sucky.
Lots of jobs do have bs, long hours, etc., but there are certainly lots of careers that afford more flexibility in terms of hours and lifestyle and are more family friendly than medicine. Don't delude yourself into thinking that you won't have to compromise certain things -- everybody does. The field is certainly a better one for workaholics who love being at the office 24/7 than for those who place more value on large quantities of R&R. Usually the complainers are those who are solidly in the latter camp, and had unrealistic expectations going in.

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but i think partially to the internet (and in particular the SDN forums), the undergrads are able to see all perspectives of medicine and see medicine for what its worth rather than taking the plunge blindly.

there's just so much information and knowledge over here that an undergrad could never get on his own in the real-world.

jbar said:

Some current docs are disatisfied because when they entered teh field in the late 70s/80s, they had these expectations based on what medicine was like in the 60s. Things changed, the system got more demanding. But if your expectations match the current realities and you still want to be a doc your chances of being unhappy are much less.

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Totally agree with this statement. Medicine is currently poised for a similar change. Catch phrases like universal healthcare are making it into every major election these days. Salaries have flattened. The AMA has predicted a physician shortage. If you are cognizant of the fact that the medicine of ten years from now might bear little resemblance to that practiced by the prior generation, you are less likely to feel sandbagged.

masterMood said:

but i think partially to the internet (and in particular the SDN forums), the undergrads are able to see all perspectives of medicine and see medicine for what its worth rather than taking the plunge blindly.

there's just so much information and knowledge over here that an undergrad could never get on his own in the real-world.

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It helps, but I doubt you can appreciate things like how you would feel at the end of an 80 hour work week just based on reading posts on SDN or a blog. Less blind is still pretty blind.

Panda Bear said:

seven years of lost or reduced income making the opportunity cost of medical school and residency close to half a million bucks.

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Last week I calculated something north of 500K, conservatively, for opportunity cost of medical training. I had a minor AMI, then decided not to do that calculation again. And now you had to go and remind me. Jeesh.

I find it oddly amusing and interesting that those who are NOT medical doctors feel the need to post replies to the original message in a vague attempt to discredit the ER doc's opinions about HIS own medical career. First of all, if you are not a medical doctor or medical student, you really don't have a clue about what you're talking about. Of course, you can say, "Well.. I have this one friend who is a doctor and he loves it..blah..blah..blah.."

As one who is NOT a medical student nor medical doctor, I do NOT know what it will be like to be a physician. However, what I can say is that according to AAMC (http://www.aamc.org/data/gq/questionnaires/start.htm) the number of newly trained MDs saying NO to the question asking if they would pursue medicine again knowing what they know now has been increasing steadily since the mid 80s. It is at an all-time high.

Take home message: Although your pre-med views on what doctors are "really" thinking can be entertaining, it's probably best if we just STFU and look at the data.

Sanctuary said:

I find it oddly amusing and interesting that those who are NOT medical doctors feel the need to post replies to the original message in a vague attempt to discredit the ER doc's opinions about HIS own medical career. First of all, if you are not a medical doctor or medical student, you really don't have a clue about what you're talking about. Of course, you can say, "Well.. I have this one friend who is a doctor and he loves it..blah..blah..blah.."

As one who is NOT a medical student nor medical doctor, I do NOT know what it will be like to be a physician. However, what I can say is that according to AAMC (http://www.aamc.org/data/gq/questionnaires/start.htm) the number of newly trained MDs saying NO to the question asking if they would pursue medicine again knowing what they know now has been increasing steadily since the mid 80s. It is at an all-time high.

Take home message: Although your pre-med views on what doctors are "really" thinking can be entertaining, it's probably best if we just STFU and look at the data.

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your avatar makes me think you are ugly

Sanctuary said:

it's probably best if we just STFU and look at the data.

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If that was the rule, there would be about one post on SDN per week.

tc13 said:

I hear this sometimes from docs, but never from docs that had a different career before entering medicine. I've been in the work force for a LONG time and will say there is bs everywhere. Next time a doc says something like that, ask if he / she ever had another career (not just a college job) before going to med school.

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My thoughts, too. It's good to have another job to realize that there's bs everywhere, and you always have to deal with the equivalent of "administration." I'm not saying that doctors don't have reasons to be unhappy, but I do wonder if some of them lack perspective.

masterMood said:

your avatar makes me think you are ugly

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masterMood said:

your avatar makes me think you are ugly

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Swift rebuttal! And similarly, your avatar makes me think you are comprised of limestone concrete.

I worked for two years before embarking on the med school route and I have to say, there's people complaining about their job in other fields too. BS, paperwork, politics etc exists as a fact of life.

Now, I can imagine a 22 year old who've never been inside of an office who jumps into med school with all this idealism thinking as long as they have a 'passion' for medicine and a 'love' for patients, they will be happy----well, we all know that jobs eventually just become....a job. I went into CS thinking it's all this stuff and it wasn't. It was boring, tedious work and it was lonely. I changed careers, and so does a lot of people.

So I think dissatisfaction from medicine stems from a few things:

1. A disporportionate of doctors never having experienced another job before medicine so there's the assumption only medicine has to deal with BS in their jobs. My parents had never worked in corporate and only saw the good money. Now, after switching from academia, they see the good and bad side to both. Most doctors in the past probably didn't get a chance to experience a career change so don't know what BS other jobs entails.

2. Not being able to change careers like many other people. Most kids nowadays don't stay in a profession they choose at age 22 as doctors do. For the students who decided to make medicine their career, there's relatively little 'turning back' once you hit med school. You end up with lots of debt and alot of tears when you get out of med school and for many, it's hard to turn away from all that to work in another field.

Now imagine if every college grad could not leave the field of their major----wouldn't there be a lot of anguish and hand wringing from many people about how much BS they have to put up with as well?

3. Too many people come in with stereotypical notions of medicine. I know we've all heard of the 'I want to help people' crowd, but I also heard from the 'I want to make lots of money' crowd.

I think both will be in a world of hurt if they maintain this stance coming into medicine. Most jobs require more than a love for the field or a love for the money it provides---especially in a career as time intensive and demanding as medicine. Medicine is a field where people go into with certain high expectations and when the reality doesn't mesh with the fantasy, people complain. For some reason, medicine tends to attract a certain personality as well----so many premeds I know don't calculate all the factors that goes into deciding on a career, and it hurts them in the long run.

In the end, I think it is a case of the grass is greener. Yes, there is dissatisfaction that is growing, but I think that can be said of work in general. General stress from work has been increasing for years now and medicine is just in for a rough ride.

My parents are in pharm research and I can tell you there's a lot of dissatisfaction with that as the field has gone sour with lawsuits and market saturation .

I was in computers and there's a lot of people unhappy with their career choice---usually because they picked the career based on one thing like money or enjoyment of programming, and then find out they have to deal with group projects, management, politics etc.

Heck, part of the reason I decided to go back to medicine (was premed in college) was the fact that since my old job was going to force me to work long hours (mandatory overtime w/o extra pay, 60+ hrs work week, weekends etc), get BS from higher ups, spend half a day catching up on paperwork, be yelled at and talked negatively behind my back, might as well go into something more economically secure, pays better, in a field where I get to interact with and directly help people, and utilize a a field I enjoy (biology).

I pretty sure I won't end up too bitter at age 40 because whatever BS I will have to put up with at that age, I seen now it's probably the same BS I saw people at my old job putting up with. My advice to all newbies is to assess your reasons for going into medicine and even try to work a year in other things to make sure medicine is a career you like with all the negatives it entails.

Hm...the more you know, the more things stay the same....

this might be a weird question, but..is masterhood a man or woman?

Law2Doc said:

If you are cognizant of the fact that the medicine of ten years from now might bear little resemblance to that practiced by the prior generation, you are less likely to feel sandbagged.

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what do you guys think these changes might be?

Law2Doc said:

Salaries have flattened.

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i am not salary-driven, but with the rising costs of education i'm wondering how we might be expected to pay back our loans.

e_phn said:

this might be a weird question, but..is masterhood a man or woman?

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What if you used to be one, but then due to "personal inner conflict" became another?

Sanctuary said:

What if you used to be one, but then due to "personal inner conflict" became another?

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uhh?