DO schools make you set up your own clinical rotations?

MacGyver said:

I've heard unsubstantiated rumors that there are a few DO schools out there who force the med students to set up their own rotations and dont guarantee anything.

Is this true?

If so, this is a joke. I cant believe the accreditation requirements allow schools to get away with this. What the hell are you paying them for, if they dont even set up your clinical training?

Accreditation for any MD or DO program should explicitly state that the SCHOOL, not the student, is required to guarantee clinical rotations. All of the rotations should be a reasonable distance from the home campus. None of htis **** about having to drive 3 hours eveyr day to get to your rotation site.

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I believe this is true. I worked with a guy from a DO school in Pennsylvania. I think the school was PCOM or LECOM. I can't remember the exact name. He had to set up all of his rotations as you mention.

It is true.. kind off.

Most DO schools have a few hospitals where they usually send their students to do clinical rotations. However not all do and not all guarantee you a place. Some school are better than others and have good network of hospitals were their students train. Off the top of my head, I thing MSU, OSU, NJ, and Northern Texas, all have affiliated hospitals and well set up rotations (Public schools mostly).

Other school private don't have the best, but have a good system in place. CCOM, PCOM, DMU, etc... The ones I did not like (my opinion nothing scientific) is AZCOM, LECOM, KCOM

Speaking for UNECOM, I know that the 3rd year rotations are guaranteed for you at affiliated UNECOM hospitals. about 6 different places in N.East. (affiliated means not owned or run by UNECOM, but have some kind of contract-agreement to send students there). 4th year free to the student to set up rotation where ever they wish to go. This is kind of good in a way. Cause if you want to do residency at a place you can do electives there.

YES, at the end this is the "less structured" rotations that we pay high tuition for. YES it is a rip off considering the school doesn't do much durring 3rd and 4th (more so). But we are paying for the right to do medicine not for the excellent training. Unlike allopath, DO path is really the "make due situation" and accreditation is a crap shoot and weak (I will say that to refrain from using stronger language).

drive 3 hours.. haaaaa.. most people have to move to another city/location for the time of rotation. Forget the driving part.

Nothing in life is guaranteed... especially not with some schools.

oh god.. i didnt know this

This is the EXACT reason why I chose to attend NYCOM. You can find 1 apartment and stay there for all 4 years. They set up ALL rotations for you, except 4th year electives. You also have the ability to chose a regional clinical campus out of several of the affiliated hospitals to complete all or the majority of your rotations. Most being large level 1 trauma centers in the city.

Reaganite said:

I believe this is true. I worked with a guy from a DO school in Pennsylvania. I think the school was PCOM or LECOM. I can't remember the exact name. He had to set up all of his rotations as you mention.

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It isn't PCOM. If you schedule your rotations right you can stay in one place.

NSU has a very stable clinical ed dept.....one of the biggest strengths of the schools...for third year..everything is set for you....4th year you can do whatever you feel like...school could set it up..or you could go traveling...(traveling is actually better during 4th year..since you get to network and get to know ppl associated with good residency programs and show off your stuff)

JonnyG said:

It isn't PCOM. If you schedule your rotations right you can stay in one place.

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It's not Lecom, half of our class goes to pittsburgh (by choice) and the rest will stay in Erie. Some students decide to move back home and set up rotations but the school advises you against this, and they actually told us this year that it's not allowed anymore. We have plenty of rotation sites in Ohio and Michigan so some students move back there b/c it's where they are originally from.

Could someone elaborate on how these two schools have the rotations scheduling done? Do the students have to set them up? Just curious...

Students set up their own rotations at DMU; kinda good, kinda bad...mostly bad. Ex: there are 9 OB spots in the entire state of Iowa...if you're not one of the 25 students that gets a spot in/near Des Moines, you're one of the 190 of us that has to go elsewhere. It works fine for many becuase a large portion of our class goes to MI and OH, but the rest of us are SOL. You either have to spend a month in MI at one of the big facilities, or look through the list of 'approved' OB sites across the country and hopefully you have family there or the doc will let you stay with them, or...occasionally, they provide housing...rare unless it's a CORE site.
What I wouldn't give for a big university hospital system...
It's nice in the sense that 4th year you can travel around to diff places you might want to apply for residency, but then again, you have to, because there ARE no residencies in Iowa...unless you're doing primary care.

FMR1 said:

Could someone elaborate on how these two schools have the rotations scheduling done? Do the students have to set them up? Just curious...

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About Touro-MI: if it is true that you have to set up your own rotations, I was also curious if it was possible to set-up your fourth-year electives at places like Stanford or UCSF... or are they not welcoming of DO students?

It was LECOM-Bradenton. And to be fair, not everybody had to or needed to, as there were sites that we were sort of affiliated with. The problem was with places that dropped out (Wellington - I think), ones that were promised that never happened (Blake Mem.), and the ones that we were supposed to be solid with (Suncoast). Were there enough for our 150 or so students? Sort of. Not all of them were great, and most were not at teaching institutions. With that said, many of us did our own work and arranged our own rotations. This was to our benefit, and many that did moved a good distance away from the school and its surrounding sites. I arranged all my rotations in a major FL city (except for one rotation) and I love it (as much as anybody can love their 3rd year). Will we have to/be able to arrange our own rotations next year? Who knows. I certainly hope that we will, or at very least, our class (to make up for all the other crap we went through).

homeboy said:

Students set up their own rotations at DMU; kinda good, kinda bad...mostly bad. Ex: there are 9 OB spots in the entire state of Iowa...if you're not one of the 25 students that gets a spot in/near Des Moines, you're one of the 190 of us that has to go elsewhere. It works fine for many becuase a large portion of our class goes to MI and OH, but the rest of us are SOL. You either have to spend a month in MI at one of the big facilities, or look through the list of 'approved' OB sites across the country and hopefully you have family there or the doc will let you stay with them, or...occasionally, they provide housing...rare unless it's a CORE site.
What I wouldn't give for a big university hospital system...
It's nice in the sense that 4th year you can travel around to diff places you might want to apply for residency, but then again, you have to, because there ARE no residencies in Iowa...unless you're doing primary care.

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Wow. I've never been so glad to be going to NYCOM. Good luck with everything man..

At my school (COMP) our core rotations are arranged for us, which is all of third year and our fourth year EM rotation. It is my understanding that we have to arrange the remaining rotations ourselves, but these are elective rotations...wouldn't you have to (and want to) arrange those yourself pretty much anywhere you go?

Red Beard said:

At my school (COMP) our core rotations are arranged for us, which is all of third year and our fourth year EM rotation. It is my understanding that we have to arrange the remaining rotations ourselves, but these are elective rotations...wouldn't you have to (and want to) arrange those yourself pretty much anywhere you go?

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Let me expand on this. All of the third year rotations are scheduled for you, using affiliated hospitals. Fourth year, with the exception of a requirement of doing an EM rotation at an affiliated site, you are free to either choose the rest of your rotations from the affiliated hospitals, or set up 'away' rotations by applying to outside hospitals.

Most of us in the fourth year do a mix - use affiliated sites and apply for away rotations in the specialty we are interested in. I imagine the fourth year in that respect in similar for every school - osteo or not.

tkim said:

Let me expand on this. All of the third year rotations are scheduled for you, using affiliated hospitals. Fourth year, with the exception of a requirement of doing an EM rotation at an affiliated site, you are free to either choose the rest of your rotations from the affiliated hospitals, or set up 'away' rotations by applying to outside hospitals.

Most of us in the fourth year do a mix - use affiliated sites and apply for away rotations in the specialty we are interested in. I imagine the fourth year in that respect in similar for every school - osteo or not.

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And, an added benefit: at COMP tkim has always got your back

Thanks!

MacGyver said:

I've heard unsubstantiated rumors that there are a few DO schools out there who force the med students to set up their own rotations and dont guarantee anything.

Is this true?

If so, this is a joke. I cant believe the accreditation requirements allow schools to get away with this. What the hell are you paying them for, if they dont even set up your clinical training?

Accreditation for any MD or DO program should explicitly state that the SCHOOL, not the student, is required to guarantee clinical rotations. All of the rotations should be a reasonable distance from the home campus. None of htis **** about having to drive 3 hours eveyr day to get to your rotation site.

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AZCOM makes you set up your own since they don't have a university hospital, as I was told during my interview day.

OSU-COM, on the other hand, sets up all of the required rotations for you.

I have interviewed and been accepted to KCOM. From what I understood, all rotations are set up for you except electives. Is this not the case?

docbill said:

It is true.. kind off.

Most DO schools have a few hospitals where they usually send their students to do clinical rotations. However not all do and not all guarantee you a place. Some school are better than others and have good network of hospitals were their students train. Off the top of my head, I thing MSU, OSU, NJ, and Northern Texas, all have affiliated hospitals and well set up rotations (Public schools mostly).

Other school private don't have the best, but have a good system in place. CCOM, PCOM, DMU, etc... The ones I did not like (my opinion nothing scientific) is AZCOM, LECOM, KCOM

Speaking for UNECOM, I know that the 3rd year rotations are guaranteed for you at affiliated UNECOM hospitals. about 6 different places in N.East. (affiliated means not owned or run by UNECOM, but have some kind of contract-agreement to send students there). 4th year free to the student to set up rotation where ever they wish to go. This is kind of good in a way. Cause if you want to do residency at a place you can do electives there.

YES, at the end this is the "less structured" rotations that we pay high tuition for. YES it is a rip off considering the school doesn't do much durring 3rd and 4th (more so). But we are paying for the right to do medicine not for the excellent training. Unlike allopath, DO path is really the "make due situation" and accreditation is a crap shoot and weak (I will say that to refrain from using stronger language).

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Oculus Sinistra said:

About Touro-MI: if it is true that you have to set up your own rotations, I was also curious if it was possible to set-up your fourth-year electives at places like Stanford or UCSF... or are they not welcoming of DO students?

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Good question...where do most people do their rotation? I wonder if there is a website for that.

I am a first year at an MD school but I thought I might chip in on my (abbreviated) experience on the DO rotations.

Along with my allo applications, I also interviewed with a few DO schools and sometime during my research, I found out about the lack of structure during rotation at some of these schools. I was very upset by this.

Lucky for me, I found out in time to pick only the schools which guaranteed all my rotations can be done within the same city in the four years we were there.

For this reason (among others), I choose CCOM as my top DO school because they required that all their students do their rotations in their affliated hospitals in Chicago (where the school is located) and had no problems getting spots for it (i.e guaranteed), 4th year was also allowed in the city although there was option to go elsewhere. In fact, the school took pains to explain the many hospitals they had that students could choose from and even said we could do all four years in Chicago area and be fine.

The Nevada DO school also requires all third years to do their rotations in Las Vegas. I'm not sure how much they set it up, but the fact that they require you to do it in the city is a good sign they have spaces for all the students.

My advice for anyone worried about not being able to stay in the same place for four years during med school is to ask and verify what the school's 3rd and 4th year is like....ask if they require everyone to do it in the same city, do they only have spaces for half the class etc.

The schools that expect half the class to leave for rotations will spin it as helping you to get hospital experience all over the country (by having you do one at a different city every three months for so!), or some will tell you you can pick have the option of moving to another city come third year for rotations. The school that will have spaces for everyone will tell you that you have to stay for 3rd year rotations.

I have found that some people like the idea of leaving after 2nd year (because they have family near some of the school's affliated hospitals), but I did not. I moved enough for the past few years and did not want anymore of it. I made sure to ask every DO school I interviewed at what their rotations were like and chopped off any school that did not have a guarantee on their 3rd year clerkship.

FYI, DMU and KCUMB, while good schools with great students, expect that half their class to leave for 3rd year.

Oh, one more thing I wanted to add. While I consider DO=MD, I did find the lack of structure during 3rd and 4th year at some DO schools a disadvantage as compared to their MD counterparts. At my MD school, we have access to five major teaching hospitals, three of which is literally in the front and back of our med school (as in a two minute walk). We have another one that's a ten minute walk and another that requires a five minute city train ride (which we can hitch from the campus). I feel that all med schools should be required to have at least one teaching hospital which can absorb the med school's students because what kind of school is expected to farm out half their teaching load to other cities?

Anyway, lucky for me, not all DO schools were like that. Cheers.

nvshelat said:

Wow. I've never been so glad to be going to NYCOM. Good luck with everything man..

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Thats about the only thing NYCOM is good for. That and the streaming videos. With their COMLEX fail rate, don't be so happy.

Touro CA sets up most of your 3rd year rotations. For the rest, you're on your own. Most people want to stay in the bay area, and they don't have enough spots for everyone that wants to stay there, so they have a lottery/point system for those that want to stay there.

Touro NV sets up 3rd year in LV. So far, it has been going pretty good. They have good rotations there, but my concern is that it might turn into another NYCOM. Touro has been opening up med schools like they're retail chain stores.

For all these schools, you can do 4th year rotations at the UC's, or anywhere else that they will take you, but not all of your rotations.

FMR1 said:

Could someone elaborate on how these two schools have the rotations scheduling done? Do the students have to set them up? Just curious...

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At TUCOM-MI, third year rotations are setup for you. They're not always convenient, however... with some students spending their 3rd years in Michigan, NY, Las Vegas, or Arrowhead down in So Cal. The ones who stay in the Bay Area will be asked to commute between different hospitals for different rotations; it can be as far as a 1-hr drive from campus to Bay Area hospitals.

There's a large list of preceptors + rotation spots available for you to "setup" yourself in 4th year. And yes, many TUCOM-MI students do rotate at Stanford, UCSF, CPMC, UCD, etc during the 4th year.

For a list of current affiliated hospitals:
http://www.tu.edu/departments.php?id=75&page=45

OSUdoc08 said:

AZCOM makes you set up your own since they don't have a university hospital, as I was told during my interview day.

OSU-COM, on the other hand, sets up all of the required rotations for you.

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That actually changed recently and we are now on a lottery system which sets up all rotations for you in the valley (many in the U of A teaching hospitals). There's also a new rule that you can only go out of state for 3 rotations third year, which actually pissed off some students in my class who wanted to do the entire 3rd and 4th year out of state. That still isn't as solid as a school like OSU-COM which has an affiliated teaching hospital attached to it, but we do get alot of flexibility. Believe me, things have changed for the best recently at AZCOM.

I personally would not have it any other way. I am a 4th year at DMU and have done rotations at several different hospitals, and feel that I will be better prepared because of it. I have learned how to use different types of EMRs, how different hospitals are run, and probably most importantly, how I do and do not want to practice in the future. I can see how it can be inconvenient for people who need to stay in one place, but that really is something you should look at when applying and interviewing for med school. The flexibility of my clinical years was a big factor in my choice to go to DMU. My fiance and I were able to schedule our entire fourth year at the same places together, and while it took a considerable amount of time and paperwork, I think it's been worth it. At interviews, people have commented on how great it is that we've been able to get such a varied experience. To each their own.

heech said:

At TUCOM-MI, third year rotations are setup for you. They're not always convenient, however... with some students spending their 3rd years in Michigan, NY, Las Vegas, or Arrowhead down in So Cal. The ones who stay in the Bay Area will be asked to commute between different hospitals for different rotations; it can be as far as a 1-hr drive from campus to Bay Area hospitals.

There's a large list of preceptors + rotation spots available for you to "setup" yourself in 4th year. And yes, many TUCOM-MI students do rotate at Stanford, UCSF, CPMC, UCD, etc during the 4th year.

For a list of current affiliated hospitals:
http://www.tu.edu/departments.php?id=75&page=45

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Heech, this list is not current, as at least one of those hospitals don't take TUCOM students for rotations.

This is all second hand, but 2 of my third year friends at TUNCOM (Touro-NV) have reported cluster-**** situations with rotations (rotations falling through, scrambling for preceptors, getting their rotations the day before, things changing at a moment's notice, lousy rotations, etc). Yes, everyone does stay in Vegas for third year, so that's good, but it doesn't mean that it's ideal either. Fourth year you set up your own, which is good in the sense that you can do audition rotations early for residency and bad in the sense that it's a pain in the ass.

Make no mistake: for the most part, DO schools are a serious disadvantage when it comes to clinical rotations because there is no hospital affilation with most DO schools (with few exceptions). Thus, you have mostly preceptor based rotations, have little exposure to the traditional medical team (attending, resident, intern, student) you'll see in residency, and generally get a lot less teaching and exposure to cases than you'd see in a large academic center. Going to sugery clinic is not the same as observing surgeries, doing outpatient IM is not the same as inpatient academic IM in a teaching hospital. It just isn't. Most of my friends have 9-3 rotations and show up when they want (there are a few exceptions) because they're rotating with a single doc at a single clinic. They see what that doc sees and that's it. They have a few rotations in the hospital, with a team, but those are exceptions, not the rule.
If you want "traditional" academic medicine go to a DO school with an affiliated hospital or to an MD school. New DO schools are probably not your best bet.

luckystar said:

I personally would not have it any other way. I am a 4th year at DMU and have done rotations at several different hospitals, and feel that I will be better prepared because of it. I have learned how to use different types of EMRs, how different hospitals are run, and probably most importantly, how I do and do not want to practice in the future. I can see how it can be inconvenient for people who need to stay in one place, but that really is something you should look at when applying and interviewing for med school. The flexibility of my clinical years was a big factor in my choice to go to DMU. My fiance and I were able to schedule our entire fourth year at the same places together, and while it took a considerable amount of time and paperwork, I think it's been worth it. At interviews, people have commented on how great it is that we've been able to get such a varied experience. To each their own.

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Most schools seem to offer flexibility especially for fourth year, so that isn't so unusual. But did you have to set all of your rotations up yourself for BOTH third & fourth year at DMU??

"FYI, DMU and KCUMB, while good schools with great students, expect that half their class to leave for 3rd year."

Actually I go to KCUMB and that is not true. 1/2 of the class CHOOSES to go elsewhere. We have affiliated rotation sites outside of KC for those that want to, but there are spots for those that choose to stay.

AmyO said:

"FYI, DMU and KCUMB, while good schools with great students, expect that half their class to leave for 3rd year."

Actually I go to KCUMB and that is not true. 1/2 of the class CHOOSES to go elsewhere. We have affiliated rotation sites outside of KC for those that want to, but there are spots for those that choose to stay.

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I was told that there was no guarantee of spots for 3rd year when I interviewed there from some of the students including the person who hosted me. No one ever said to me that there is guaranteed spots for anyone who wishes it, only that certain people get priority (i.e people with family, the MBA/DO students etc). The administration also said that they do not 'guarantee' anyone but the MBA/DO students can stay in the KC area. I'm surprised they told you otherwise because when I asked point blank about this, I either got the "it's great to do your rotations in other parts of the country' runaround or "there's no promise that there's spots for everyone but the admin will try to accommadate everyone" answer.

Perhaps I misinterpretated.

As a 4th year student at AZCOM, I feel I can give an accurate opinion on the whole "setting up your own rotations" deal. At AZCOM, the school will and for must of us did set-up most of our clinical rotations for my class. They will set-up all your rotations if you want. The thing I have really liked about AZCOM is that they WILL ALLOW you to change your schedule at any time and set-up your own rotations. This is in stark contrast to most MD schools where most do not let you change your schedule once it is out. So if you happen to get assigned to a service that has received poor reviews, your stuck. A lot of schools also will not let you do rotations out-of state as well, only for electives.

In the past, AZCOM did have problems getting students into the main hospitals in phoenix due to contracts with University of Arizona and AT Still University. THIS HAS CHANGED in the past 2-3 years and any of my classmates would agree, we have had good clinical rotations arranged through the school. I have rotated at Mayo Hospital Scottsdale, Maricopa County Hospital, Good Sam, Tucson Medical Center and many of the local community hospitals. I was also able (by choice) to do IM in Michigan, FP in Utah and anesthesia at Penn State. PM me if you have any questions

Orthodoc40 said:

Most schools seem to offer flexibility especially for fourth year, so that isn't so unusual. But did you have to set all of your rotations up yourself for BOTH third & fourth year at DMU??

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No, just fourth year. Third year was a lottery system. Most people who wanted to leave the state did, and same for the ones who needed to stay in the Des Moines area for family reasons.

The big thing I liked about DMU's fourth year is that you can save up your vacation time and finish with rotations months before graduation. I've heard some other schools do it differently. It's the subtle differences that matter.

Misplaced post, sorry

I will comment on KCOM rotations since we are currently going through the match process that we have. During the 1st weeks of December in your 2nd year, you rank 6 rotations sites in order of where you would like to go from 1-6. These sites are then entered into a computer along with everyone in your class, the number of spots that each rotation site offers is entered and then the program is run 9 times by randomly picking students out, assigning them their 1st spot if it is available or looking at their 2nd choice, 3rd and so on till it can place them somewhere and then it moves onto the next randomly assigned person. After it has run the program 9 times, they look at the iteration that had the least amount of people not match to any spot and that is where everyone is assigned to. If you didn't match anywhere, then they work with you to try to get you into one of your top 3 choices, and then there is trading that happens and other stuff. In the end, about 80% get their top choice and about 95% are placed into one of their top 3 choices. All sites are well established and you don't have to go usually more then 45 minutes to another hospital for a rotation. You are then allowed to go anywhere you want for your electives when you are looking at what residency programs to apply to. Here are the sites we offer this year and the number of spots that are available at each site. These spots are about 15 people short since our chosen fellows are automatically given their 1st spot and their chosen spots are subtracted out of the list of available spots. I don't know where are the fellows chose so I can't tell you exactly how many spots are available at each site but it gives you a rough estimate.

Arizona Arizona 35
Colorado Colorado 11
Sun Coast Hospital Largo, FL 4
St. John Health System Detroit, MI: (Detroit Riverview Hospital, Macomb Hospital, Providence Hospital, Main Hospital, Oakland Hospital) 10
Genesys Regional Medical Center Grand Blanc, MI 9
Henry Ford Wyandotte Trenton, MI 12
Metropolitan Hospital Grand Rapids, MI 1
North Missouri Kirksville, (Moberly, Sedalia, Ottumwa, IA) 8
North Central Missouri Moberly & Mexico, MO 4
Central Missouri Jefferson City, (Carbondale, IL; Lake of Ozarks,MO) 5
West Central Missouri Rolla, MO 4
Southeast Missouri- Cape Girardeau/Sikeston, MO 3
Southeast Missouri-Poplar Bluff Poplar Bluff, MO 2
Southeast Missouri-Kennet Kennet, MO 2
Southeast Missouri-West Plains West Plains, MO 2
Des Peres Hospital St. Louis, MO 7
Southwest Missouri (Springfield) Springfield, MO 1
Freeman Hospital Joplin, MO 2
BroMenn Regional Medical Center Bloomington, IL 4
SIU/Memorial Hospital Carbondale, IL 2
St. Michael’s Hospital Newark, NJ 5
Memorial Hospital York, PA 4
Atlantic Health System Hospital Corp. Summit, NJ 5
Cuyahoga Falls General Hospital Cuyahoga Falls, OH 2
Affinity Medical Center
(formerly Doctors Hospital of Stark County) Massillon, OH 2
St. Joseph Hospital Warren, OH 3
South Pointe Hospital Cleveland, OH 4
Grandview Dayton, OH 4
St. Cloud area St. Cloud, MN 2
Trinity at Terrace Park Bettendorf, IA 3
Utah-Logan Logan, UT 1
Utah-Salt Lake City Salt Lake City, UT 3
Utah-Provo Provo, UT 5

we were given a set rotation schedule--and a list of many hospitals that had mandatory rotation sites. we as a group of 15 had to fight out between us where we were to go. of course, selective/electives were open to any site you could find

Bandit said:

we were given a set rotation schedule--and a list of many hospitals that had mandatory rotation sites. we as a group of 15 had to fight out between us where we were to go. of course, selective/electives were open to any site you could find

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Where are you going to school??
Thanks.

LECOM erie

lgriffie said:

I will comment on KCOM rotations since we are currently going through the match process that we have. During the 1st weeks of December in your 2nd year, you rank 6 rotations sites in order of where you would like to go from 1-6. These sites are then entered into a computer along with everyone in your class, the number of spots that each rotation site offers is entered and then the program is run 9 times by randomly picking students out, assigning them their 1st spot if it is available or looking at their 2nd choice, 3rd and so on till it can place them somewhere and then it moves onto the next randomly assigned person. After it has run the program 9 times, they look at the iteration that had the least amount of people not match to any spot and that is where everyone is assigned to. If you didn't match anywhere, then they work with you to try to get you into one of your top 3 choices, and then there is trading that happens and other stuff. In the end, about 80% get their top choice and about 95% are placed into one of their top 3 choices. All sites are well established and you don't have to go usually more then 45 minutes to another hospital for a rotation. You are then allowed to go anywhere you want for your electives when you are looking at what residency programs to apply to. Here are the sites we offer this year and the number of spots that are available at each site. These spots are about 15 people short since our chosen fellows are automatically given their 1st spot and their chosen spots are subtracted out of the list of available spots. I don't know where are the fellows chose so I can't tell you exactly how many spots are available at each site but it gives you a rough estimate.

Arizona Arizona 35
Colorado Colorado 11
Sun Coast Hospital Largo, FL 4
St. John Health System Detroit, MI: (Detroit Riverview Hospital, Macomb Hospital, Providence Hospital, Main Hospital, Oakland Hospital) 10
Genesys Regional Medical Center Grand Blanc, MI 9
Henry Ford Wyandotte Trenton, MI 12
Metropolitan Hospital Grand Rapids, MI 1
North Missouri Kirksville, (Moberly, Sedalia, Ottumwa, IA) 8
North Central Missouri Moberly & Mexico, MO 4
Central Missouri Jefferson City, (Carbondale, IL; Lake of Ozarks,MO) 5
West Central Missouri Rolla, MO 4
Southeast Missouri- Cape Girardeau/Sikeston, MO 3
Southeast Missouri-Poplar Bluff Poplar Bluff, MO 2
Southeast Missouri-Kennet Kennet, MO 2
Southeast Missouri-West Plains West Plains, MO 2
Des Peres Hospital St. Louis, MO 7
Southwest Missouri (Springfield) Springfield, MO 1
Freeman Hospital Joplin, MO 2
BroMenn Regional Medical Center Bloomington, IL 4
SIU/Memorial Hospital Carbondale, IL 2
St. Michael’s Hospital Newark, NJ 5
Memorial Hospital York, PA 4
Atlantic Health System Hospital Corp. Summit, NJ 5
Cuyahoga Falls General Hospital Cuyahoga Falls, OH 2
Affinity Medical Center
(formerly Doctors Hospital of Stark County) Massillon, OH 2
St. Joseph Hospital Warren, OH 3
South Pointe Hospital Cleveland, OH 4
Grandview Dayton, OH 4
St. Cloud area St. Cloud, MN 2
Trinity at Terrace Park Bettendorf, IA 3
Utah-Logan Logan, UT 1
Utah-Salt Lake City Salt Lake City, UT 3
Utah-Provo Provo, UT 5

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Thanks for posting this...but can you tell me how Carbondale fits in with LOTO and Jeff City?

The hospital that we rotate in Jefferson City is Capital Region Medical Center. The list I posted about the rotations offered was copied and pasted straight from the list our dean gave us. I at once was looking at their site with a possible interest so I picked up a packet from them but I never really followed up with them on questions so I don't really know how to answer your questions. I believe the other two cities listed are maybe sites were you may also do a rotation at if the Jeff. City hospital is not able to profide it but I am not entirely sure what you would do at those other cities. The packet of information I received from them did not explain much but it does have the director of medical education listed as Lorenzo D. McKnelly so maybe you can google him and ask him about it or email KCOM and ask them for further explanation. Sorry I can't be of further help, maybe someone else can chime in and answer you but I only really researched the sites that I decided on.

Lindsay

How difficult it is for one to set up their own rotations? What is involved in the actual process?

Can someone please talk about clinical rotations at NSU. Do they have affileated hospitals, and the general quality of their clinical rotations. For example, are all rotations in a hospital with a traditional set up, or are clinicals set up in small clinincs? Furthermore, how good are their elective rotations? Thanks a bunch!!

Rumour has it that NSU may be building a hospital.

bravotwozero said:

Rumour has it that NSU may be building a hospital.

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From my current understaind, I'm not so sure how likely this is going to happen.
They were definitely talking about it when I interviewed there a little over a year ago, but I thought I heard recently that things weren't exactly working out.

Someone from NSU care to elaborate?

I'm nontraditional student considering LECOM, and I was wondering how feasible it is to do all clinical rotations in the Cleveland, Ohio area (University Hospitals Case Medical Center, University Hospitals Richmond). My wife and I live in suburban Clevleand, and she has a good job in Cleveland and Erie is too far for her to commute to work. She would stay there while I would stay with family about 1/2 hour drive from Erie while I'm in school. It would be great if I could go back home to Cleveland for the two years of clinicals. Any thoughts?

Taus said:

hopefully you never have to find out.....while its fine for your elective/audition rotations.....without Docs in hospitals who are associated w/ your school you can't guarantee that their is gonna be someone there to properly teach you....

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Its hard enough finding electives as a third year. I would hate to have to set up cores.

med26 said:

Thats about the only thing NYCOM is good for. That and the streaming videos. With their COMLEX fail rate, don't be so happy.

Touro CA sets up most of your 3rd year rotations. For the rest, you're on your own. Most people want to stay in the bay area, and they don't have enough spots for everyone that wants to stay there, so they have a lottery/point system for those that want to stay there.

Touro NV sets up 3rd year in LV. So far, it has been going pretty good. They have good rotations there, but my concern is that it might turn into another NYCOM. Touro has been opening up med schools like they're retail chain stores.

For all these schools, you can do 4th year rotations at the UC's, or anywhere else that they will take you, but not all of your rotations.

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This was discussed in another thread recently, but just to clarify on it, NYCOM's first time pass rate for COMLEX step 1 is right around the national average. I don't know where this low pass rate rumor has started, but it's not true. If you don't count the EPP people & the 7 year NYIT program people, the pass rate is even higher. Dean Scandalis addressed us on this about a month ago, and he doesn't know where/how the rumor got started. With that said, even though we are at the national average for 1st time pass rate, NYCOM is currently trying to improve the board scores even more. Our curriculum is harder this year than previous years, they are currently demo testing Kbit with a number of students in our class, and they are doing away with retakes next year (their data shows the best indicator of low board scores correlates directly with the number of retakes a student has taken). Contrary to the popular rumored opinion on here, NYCOM is a good school. I have only a few small complaints about my first year, but the majority of it is very good. I feel the quality of my education is very good; many of our professors write for the national boards. Even though they use powerpoints to teach us the info they're required to, many times during lecture they will add in "This is what you need to know for class; however, for the national boards make sure you know ______". I'm still not sure where all the negativity comes from; maybe the curriculum wasn't as good for previous classes ?

futureboy said:

I'm nontraditional student considering LECOM, and I was wondering how feasible it is to do all clinical rotations in the Cleveland, Ohio area (University Hospitals Case Medical Center, University Hospitals Richmond). My wife and I live in suburban Clevleand, and she has a good job in Cleveland and Erie is too far for her to commute to work. She would stay there while I would stay with family about 1/2 hour drive from Erie while I'm in school. It would be great if I could go back home to Cleveland for the two years of clinicals. Any thoughts?

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Very feasible and can set up sites within an hour's driving distance as well. OU-COM has core sites in and around cleveland and there are also community based hospitals within driving distance that you can find docs to work with. I usually look up DOs because they are usually very happy to work with the students. I also ran into a lot of LE-COMers around too.

Like Lucky, I would not have it any other way. It allows you to go places that you normally wouldn't get to go to. Having an open fourth year allows for more exploration into fields, health care systems, and places that you wouldn't normally be exposed to. You get to see how many different practictioners do it many different ways with different tools. I even did it with a family in tow.

How to do it?
Most programs that I go through are affiliated with a medical school and will allow you an 8 week limit on rotations within their system. I also look up DOs within the area that I want to work with and see if they are willing to take students or not. This usually involves a polite conversation over the phone to see if they are interested taking a fourth year student or not. When you go through the affiliated programs, you have to fill out their apps (try to do this several months in advance because they give preference to their own students first) and sometimes, though not often, pay a small fee. You also have to make sure that your school and the program can communicate freely and that they have a list of your vaccinations, HIPPA training, malpractice insurance, academic status, etc. I even had to do TB training for one program. You just have to make sure that the paperwork is filled out and that every thing gets signed. This involves a friendly relationship with your clinical coordinator and school. If you run into a malignant program, you have to think about if you really want to go there to begin with if they are treating you badly all ready.

Many offer free housing, free parking, and free food (mostly because they want you to apply to their residency program)!