"You're not a real doctor!"

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alferec

alferec

Future Army OD
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How would you respond to someone if they said to you "You're not a real doctor"? I'm sure many optometrists get that comment...
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I'd say, "No... I'm a fake doctor!" :D

Most people associate the word "doctor" with an MD. I'm not an MD, so in that sense, I'm NOT a "real" doctor. But, my doctoral degree will be as real as anyone else's... only it will be in optometry, not medicine or dentistry, etc.
 
alferec said:
How would you respond to someone if they said to you "You're not a real doctor"? I'm sure many optometrists get that comment...
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it depends... If it's a PhD who did a thesis saying this, then I'd shrink into a corner and agree that he/she is correct. But if it's any other health professional (PharmD, DDS), I'd say "you're not a real doctor either dingus", and if it's it's an MD/DO, i'd say "you're not a real either dinguses, you just manage to historically steal that title when everyone else in the world makes a distinction between a doctorate (PhD, hence Dr. blah blah) from a MBBS.

And if it's a patient, I'd say "give me your money".
 
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alferec said:
How would you respond to someone if they said to you "You're not a real doctor"? I'm sure many optometrists get that comment...
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Coming from patients it is actually quite rare. I have only heard it a handful of times in my career. In each case I responded with this:

"Then why are you here?"

In all cases it happened very early on in the exam. In each case I immediately stopped and told the patient in as nice a way as possible to see a "real doctor."

I've never heard it to my face from other health care providers but it is much more common in this area and it has gotten back to me from patients on more than one occasion that a doctor I made a referral to ran me down. There is very little that you can do about this. Writing letters doesn't help, making phone calls (whether pleasant or angry) doesn't help. That attitude will never change. The only thing you can really do is not send those doctors any more patients.
 
KHE said:
I've never heard it to my face from other health care providers but it is much more common in this area and it has gotten back to me from patients on more than one occasion that a doctor I made a referral to ran me down. There is very little that you can do about this. Writing letters doesn't help, making phone calls (whether pleasant or angry) doesn't help. That attitude will never change. The only thing you can really do is not send those doctors any more patients.
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simple to remedy this. just get in touch with all of your local ODs and OMDs and let them know that dr a-hole is running everyone down. suddenly dr a-hole has no referrals, and is struggling with patient volume. dr a-hole signed his own professional death warrant by slandering. 2 years ago i witnessed the end stage of such - some of the area ODs and MDs won a war of attrition with this ***** who would bash referring doctors in front of the consulting patients.
the guy closed his practice and moved away.
 
I always refer to anyone who's earned an academic or professional degree by their rightful title, though I usually default to 'professor' with PhDs when I'm on a campus.

If I'm seeing you for my health, then what does it say about me if I think you're a 'fake doctor'. People are weird.
 
an omd in MY OFFICE told the staff and pts that od's are not real docs.
 
i am not an OD yet but if i were....if they were implying I was not a medical doctor....i'd say sorry i never had the desire to go through 12 years of study(OMD) to cut people open for a living(not being sarcastic). are md's more medically educated than od's? yes. is their scope of treatment broader than od's? yes.

do I care? no. if I was interested in surgery I would have chosen med school.
"Doctor" encompasses anyone who completed a doctorate program--research, professional or honorary. certainly a phd in physics is more difficult than one in physical education---but they are still doctors!
 
doctor
c.1303, "Church father," from O.Fr. doctour, from M.L. doctor "religious teacher, adviser, scholar," from L. doctor "teacher," from doct- stem of docere "to show, teach," originally "make to appear right," causative of decere "be seemly, fitting" (see decent). Familiar form doc first recorded c.1850. Meaning of "holder of highest degree in university" is first found c.1375; that of "medical professional" dates from 1377, though this was not common till late 16c. Verb sense of "alter, disguise, falsify" is first recorded 1774.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=doctor

Post this on your wall and tell patients to refer to it whenever they accuse you of not being a doctor.
 
Just say that you're a doctor and that's it. If they still don't understand then don't worry about what they think
 
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alferec said:
How would you respond to someone if they said to you "You're not a real doctor"? I'm sure many optometrists get that comment...
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"No...but I stayed at a holiday inn last night!"

Look...check your ego on this. this is a good time to tell the patients what we do. Don't get mad because it makes you look silly. They came to you already..so they must trust you. Close the deal, give them excellent care and they will come back and tell thier friends.
 
drmhyde said:
"No...but I stayed at a holiday inn last night!"

Look...check your ego on this. this is a good time to tell the patients what we do. Don't get mad because it makes you look silly. They came to you already..so they must trust you. Close the deal, give them excellent care and they will come back and tell thier friends.
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Good way to put this. I had someone ask if I was the doctor, b/c I know I look young. I tried to react as professionally as possible and the patient was impressed by the time the exam was over. I've not had someone ask if I was a "real doctor" yet, but I'll just not let it get under my skin.
 
This situation has come up once for me since I have been in practice the past 6 1/2 years. It was said by a glaucoma patient of mine(a very non compliant glaucoma patient with horrible looking nerves) after she no longer wanted to listen to my advice and went to see a local ophthalmologist. I dont know if she came up with this idea on her own or if it was said by the ophthalmologist. Nevertheless, I was glad she left my practice; she is no longer my problem. The point is, dont let your ego get the best of you.
 
Ryan_eyeball said:
Good way to put this. I had someone ask if I was the doctor, b/c I know I look young.
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now this I do get. I do look young, but I prove to them I know my stuff.

I've stopped counting how many times I've heard... "Now, what does this dilation do..?? I've never had this done before ?? " From THIRTY YEAR OLDS wearing contacts for ten plus years !!! :eek:

I'm going to the dentist tomorrow.. I'm definitely bringing the superbill home. (just curious)
 
cpw said:
now this I do get. I do look young, but I prove to them I know my stuff.

I've stopped counting how many times I've heard... "Now, what does this dilation do..?? I've never had this done before ?? " From THIRTY YEAR OLDS wearing contacts for ten plus years !!! :eek:

I'm going to the dentist tomorrow.. I'm definitely bringing the superbill home. (just curious)
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What was the damage? ;)
 
cpw said:
I had no copay.. so they didn't give me a superbill :( But, just so it feels like my office .... next time I go in I'm going to ask if they honor coupons from Visionworks. :rolleyes:
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If they do, you might want to get a second opinion on the refractive Rx they give you. Call me paranoid, but I just have a hunch. ;)
 
aphistis said:
If they do, you might want to get a second opinion on the refractive Rx they give you. Call me paranoid, but I just have a hunch. ;)
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i like this guy :D
 
Part of me wants to ask the patient "what makes you feel that way" but the other part of me says that would help but time is more valuable than spending it on one patient. Personally I think I would say "I'm sorry you feel that way" and I would go on with the exam. I think everyone has to agree that there are stupid people in the world and we just have to live with them.
 
Damn it, Jim, I'm an optometrist, not a doctor! (an homage to Dr. McCoy). Isn't anyone who holds an earned doctorate, whether professional or academic, a doctor? This includes PhDs in English, art hx, EdDs, pods, dentists, pharmacists, optos, and...shudder...even LAWYERS!

A "doctor" is one who holds a doctorate, not a profession or occupation. An MD or DO, no matter what the public erroneously believes, is just another "doctor" out there. An MD or DO is a physician, and in the US and Canada, physicians happen to hold professional doctorates.

So, an OD is a real doctor by virtue of degree, right? Case closed.
 
this thread reminds of Ross from "Friends" ..... " I AM A DOCTOR"
 
ProZackMI said:
Damn it, Jim, I'm an optometrist, not a doctor! (an homage to Dr. McCoy). Isn't anyone who holds an earned doctorate, whether professional or academic, a doctor? This includes PhDs in English, art hx, EdDs, pods, dentists, pharmacists, optos, and...shudder...even LAWYERS!

A "doctor" is one who holds a doctorate, not a profession or occupation. An MD or DO, no matter what the public erroneously believes, is just another "doctor" out there. An MD or DO is a physician, and in the US and Canada, physicians happen to hold professional doctorates.

So, an OD is a real doctor by virtue of degree, right? Case closed.
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Tell that to your state board... :eek: Many states do not allow you to quote yourself in print as Dr. X without putting "optometrist" or "O.D." after your name.

I understand your point though... :p
 
Anyone who holds a professional doctorate, an academic degree (PhD, etc...), or an honorary degree (Doctorate of Humane Letters, etc…) is a "Doctor".

I think the problem comes about because American's seem to have merged the meaning of the word "Doctor" with that of "Physician".

A "Physician" is defined as:

"a person who is legally qualified to practice medicine; doctor of medicine."

So the term Physician is only applied to MD's.

Whereas "Doctor" is defined as:

"1 a : a person who has earned one of the highest academic degrees (as a PhD) conferred by a university b : a person awarded an honorary doctorate by a college or university
2 : a person skilled or specializing in healing arts; especially : a physician, surgeon, dentist, or veterinarian licensed to practice his or her profession"

Which can certainly be applied to any member of the allied health professions that maintains a doctorate in their respective field.

It's the colloquialization of the English language that has created this ignorant problem.
 
Eponym said:
Anyone who holds a professional doctorate, an academic degree (PhD, etc...), or an honorary degree (Doctorate of Humane Letters, etc…) is a "Doctor".

I think the problem comes about because American's seem to have merged the meaning of the word "Doctor" with that of "Physician".

A "Physician" is defined as:

"a person who is legally qualified to practice medicine; doctor of medicine."

So the term Physician is only applied to MD's.

Whereas "Doctor" is defined as:

"1 a : a person who has earned one of the highest academic degrees (as a PhD) conferred by a university b : a person awarded an honorary doctorate by a college or university
2 : a person skilled or specializing in healing arts; especially : a physician, surgeon, dentist, or veterinarian licensed to practice his or her profession"

Which can certainly be applied to any member of the allied health professions that maintains a doctorate in their respective field.

It's the colloquialization of the English language that has created this ignorant problem.
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That may be but in America the word "doctor" has been monopolized by the MDs. It's in our laws. You can certainly call yourself a doctor in casual conversation or in front of your patients, but in any written communication, there has to be an acknowledgment that we are not true "doctors." We have to put "optometrist" in the name if we use "Dr." Well, at least this is true of all the states I've practiced in. We are certainly "Doctors of Optometry" but not "Doctors." :scared:

Personally, I like to think of OMDs as surgical technicians. I got that from Tom Miller. :cool:
 
docwatson said:
We have to put "optometrist" in the name if we use "Dr." Well, at least this is true of all the states I've practiced in. We are certainly "Doctors of Optometry" but not "Doctors." :scared:
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You may be correct in the states you have practiced in, but this is not true for all states. In some states, such as Washington, we are referred to as Optometric Physicians in the RCW's (laws governing the practice of optometry). Whether or not we should be called that is a debate for another thread. The truth is, I find all of this funny. I could care less if I am called doctor. I know that my patients come to me because they trust me with the health of their eyes. That's enough of an ego boost for me.
Personally, I like to think of OMDs as surgical technicians. I got that from Tom Miller. :cool:
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:laugh:
 
Ben Chudner said:
You may be correct in the states you have practiced in, but this is not true for all states. In some states, such as Washington, we are referred to as Optometric Physicians in the RCW's (laws governing the practice of optometry). Whether or not we should be called that is a debate for another thread. The truth is, I find all of this funny. I could care less if I am called doctor. I know that my patients come to me because they trust me with the health of their eyes. That's enough of an ego boost for me.:laugh:
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What does your law say about the word doctor? That's the question: Not "optometric physician." Notice that you can't be called a physician? It's an "optometric physician" because the state won't grant you the right to be called a physician. So I would not doubt that you can't be called "doctor" either. :D
 
docwatson said:
What does your law say about the word doctor? That's the question: Not "optometric physician." Notice that you can't be called a physician? It's an "optometric physician" because the state won't grant you the right to be called a physician. So I would not doubt that you can't be called "doctor" either. :D
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The state does not grant me the right to be called physician, because I am not a physician. Washington does not, however, require an optometrist to qualify the term doctor.
 
Ben Chudner said:
The state does not grant me the right to be called physician, because I am not a physician. Washington does not, however, require an optometrist to qualify the term doctor.
Click to expand...

I just said that...;)
 
Ben Chudner said:
The state does not grant me the right to be called physician, because I am not a physician. Washington does not, however, require an optometrist to qualify the term doctor.
Click to expand...

Anyway... Like I said... All states are different... But are you sure you can put "Dr. Ben Chudner" on your advertisements and no one will question it?
 
docwatson said:
Anyway... Like I said... All states are different... But are you sure you can put "Dr. Ben Chudner" on your advertisements and no one will question it?
Click to expand...

What does this mean under the laws in the state of Washington...

"Proper identification of licensees.

Each person licensed under chapter 18.53 RCW must be clearly identified to the public as a doctor of optometry at all practice locations. The identification must include the name of the licensee and the term "doctor of optometry" or "independent doctor of optometry" or other similar phrase, at or near the entrance to the licensee's office."

Does this mean you cannot get away with using just the word "doctor"? Looks like you have to put "doctor of optometry."
 
docwatson said:
Anyway... Like I said... All states are different... But are you sure you can put "Dr. Ben Chudner" on your advertisements and no one will question it?
Click to expand...
Absolutely sure. This is the whole reason behind the federal legislation to require allied health professionals to clarify their degree when using the term doctor. I have only practiced in three states (one that had this requirement already), but I am sure if only 2 states do not require clarification there would be no issue. Therefore, I assume that there are several states that do not have this requirement to qualify the term doctor. Obviously, they are the states you have not held a license in.
 
docwatson said:
Does this mean you cannot get away with using just the word "doctor"? Looks like you have to put "doctor of optometry."
Click to expand...
The law you are referring to is actually one of the WAC's and it relates to indentification at an office location. It does not actually prohibit an optometrist from using the title doctor without qualifying it with optometry, optometrist, doctor of optometry, optometric physician, etc. Furthermore, the term eye doctor would qualify as a similar phase. I believe the point of the legislation is to make sure that the public knows that we treat conditions of the eye and not to point out that we are not MD's. Optometrists in Washington may use the term doctor without qualification on any advertisements, letterhead, Rx pads, etc.
 
Hey guys,

I am a year 4 medical student planning on nephrology....I was reading this post as I am encouraging my wife to pursue optometry as a career other than nursing....I guess maybe I am alone in respect for your field. However, some people truly are confused by the "doctor" designation. I have seen it with numerous DOs in the hospitals.

I wish all the best in the future-:)
 
borborygmus said:
Hey guys,

I am a year 4 medical student planning on nephrology....I was reading this post as I am encouraging my wife to pursue optometry as a career other than nursing....I guess maybe I am alone in respect for your field. However, some people truly are confused by the "doctor" designation. I have seen it with numerous DOs in the hospitals.

I wish all the best in the future-:)
Click to expand...

Optometry may have its problems, but all in all it is a great field. Several classmates of mine are former RNs. Each of them has said they much prefer optometry over nursing; of course they would not have put themselves through the torture of 4 years of OD school if they did not think it was going to be an improvement.
 
After 27 Years (if you count Med School) in this business, the pecking order over who "is a doctor" and who is one "depending on who you ask" still strikes me as silly and affected as it did as a student. I have always looked some what askew at physicians (Usually M.D. but often enough D.O.s) who grasp this man made "cloak or title" that (particularly in their own minds" sets them apart from the herd. Often with the fervor and intensity Saints in the Middle Ages embraced Roman Catholic dogma.. For some guys that identity means oh so much. It sets them apart from the rest of the lemmings.) It has always appeared to me that folks want to be (or at least want to be perceived to be), one rung higher on the **** pile than the rest of the herd. I guess that basic "Truth" of human nature doomed Communism about the same time the ink was drying on Karl Marx's Manifesto. It's the same line of thinking that motivated some members of the Enid Oklahoma Country Club (back i the early 80s when I was there on clinical rotation as an Osteopathic Medical student), to comport themselves with a lofty patrician air that would have worn well on a member of the House of Windsor or a Romanov.)


In the Movie "Barry Lyndon" the offscreen commentator says somethig to the effect that the charactors thus depicted lived and died in the 18th and 19th Centuries in England and Ireland. "Kings and Queens, Lords and peasants, they are all equal now." When all of us make that sad last jouney to "Boot Hill" with that long faced padre at the rear droning on out of the New Testament, from that point on I doubt the "doctor" thing will mean a hell of a lot..LOL anyone will much care if a guy was or was not called "Doctor". Sorry for the rant, I came upon this topic after a considerable abount of Scotch so of course had put in my 2 cents in with a post which has little to do with the thread. God bless...all here.)
 
gtleeee said:
After 27 Years (if you count Med School) in this business, the pecking order over who "is a doctor" and who is one "depending on who you ask" still strikes me as silly and affected as it did as a student. I have always looked some what askew at physicians (Usually M.D. but often enough D.O.s) who grasp this man made "cloak or title" that (particularly in their own minds" sets them apart from the herd. Often with the fervor and intensity Saints in the Middle Ages embraced Roman Catholic dogma.. For some guys that identity means oh so much. It sets them apart from the rest of the lemmings.) It has always appeared to me that folks want to be (or at least want to be perceived to be), one rung higher on the **** pile than the rest of the herd. I guess that basic "Truth" of human nature doomed Communism about the same time the ink was drying on Karl Marx's Manifesto. It's the same line of thinking that motivated some members of the Enid Oklahoma Country Club (back i the early 80s when I was there on clinical rotation as an Osteopathic Medical student), to comport themselves with a lofty patrician air that would have worn well on a member of the House of Windsor or a Romanov.)


In the Movie "Barry Lyndon" the offscreen commentator says somethig to the effect that the charactors thus depicted lived and died in the 18th and 19th Centuries in England and Ireland. "Kings and Queens, Lords and peasants, they are all equal now." When all of us make that sad last jouney to "Boot Hill" with that long faced padre at the rear droning on out of the New Testament, from that point on I doubt the "doctor" thing will mean a hell of a lot..LOL anyone will much care if a guy was or was not called "Doctor". Sorry for the rant, I came upon this topic after a considerable abount of Scotch so of course had put in my 2 cents in with a post which has little to do with the thread. God bless...all here.)
Click to expand...


I'm a Glenfiddich man myself, I find the 12yr has a headier "peat" then the 18yr. Thanks for your interesting contribution.:thumbup:
 
PBEA said:
I'm a Glenfiddich man myself, I find the 12yr has a headier "peat" then the 18yr. Thanks for your interesting contribution.:thumbup:
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Just plain old Cutty Sark and Dewars for me...also like Glenfiddich on occassion however speaking of unblended scotch.....thanks)
 
Tell the patient " real doctor" charge more so they should wait until after the exam to ask that question again :)
 
I must admit. This gentleman has a very balanced perspective, or is it the scotch?

gtleeee said:
After 27 Years (if you count Med School) in this business, the pecking order over who "is a doctor" and who is one "depending on who you ask" still strikes me as silly and affected as it did as a student. I have always looked some what askew at physicians (Usually M.D. but often enough D.O.s) who grasp this man made "cloak or title" that (particularly in their own minds" sets them apart from the herd. Often with the fervor and intensity Saints in the Middle Ages embraced Roman Catholic dogma.. For some guys that identity means oh so much. It sets them apart from the rest of the lemmings.) It has always appeared to me that folks want to be (or at least want to be perceived to be), one rung higher on the **** pile than the rest of the herd. I guess that basic "Truth" of human nature doomed Communism about the same time the ink was drying on Karl Marx's Manifesto. It's the same line of thinking that motivated some members of the Enid Oklahoma Country Club (back i the early 80s when I was there on clinical rotation as an Osteopathic Medical student), to comport themselves with a lofty patrician air that would have worn well on a member of the House of Windsor or a Romanov.)


In the Movie "Barry Lyndon" the offscreen commentator says somethig to the effect that the charactors thus depicted lived and died in the 18th and 19th Centuries in England and Ireland. "Kings and Queens, Lords and peasants, they are all equal now." When all of us make that sad last jouney to "Boot Hill" with that long faced padre at the rear droning on out of the New Testament, from that point on I doubt the "doctor" thing will mean a hell of a lot..LOL anyone will much care if a guy was or was not called "Doctor". Sorry for the rant, I came upon this topic after a considerable abount of Scotch so of course had put in my 2 cents in with a post which has little to do with the thread. God bless...all here.)
Click to expand...
 
who cares? If I wanted to be a "real doctor" I wouldve gone to med school. I wanted to be an optometrist. I am offended by people in our profession who want so badly to make us into MDs that they try to push confusing terms like Optometric physician etc.. It just annoys the crap out of me. If you wanted to be called a physician you shouldve gone the MD route. That is like a cardiologist for my father introducing himself "I am Dr Klim..I am part of the cardiac surgery team". No M(*@#erF@#@er you are a cardiologist. Why are you trying to mislead people? Be proud of what you trained to be. So annoying...
 
mclem222 said:
who cares? If I wanted to be a "real doctor" I wouldve gone to med school. I wanted to be an optometrist. I am offended by people in our profession who want so badly to make us into MDs that they try to push confusing terms like Optometric physician etc.. It just annoys the crap out of me. If you wanted to be called a physician you shouldve gone the MD route. That is like a cardiologist for my father introducing himself "I am Dr Klim..I am part of the cardiac surgery team". No M(*@#erF@#@er you are a cardiologist. Why are you trying to mislead people? Be proud of what you trained to be. So annoying...
Click to expand...

A cardiologist is an M.D. or D.O. What do you mean they aren't doctors even though they are physicians anyway? I don't think that's a good example.

Questions:
Are PhDs not doctors even though their degree says "Doctor of Philosophy"?
Are podiatrists doctors even though their degree says "Doctor of Podiatric Medicine"?

So what about optometrists with the degree "Doctor of Optometry"? We aren't doctors? Not that I like replying to tired old threads but come on... :p
 
mclem222 said:
who cares? If I wanted to be a "real doctor" I wouldve gone to med school. I wanted to be an optometrist. I am offended by people in our profession who want so badly to make us into MDs that they try to push confusing terms like Optometric physician etc.. It just annoys the crap out of me. If you wanted to be called a physician you shouldve gone the MD route. That is like a cardiologist for my father introducing himself "I am Dr Klim..I am part of the cardiac surgery team". No M(*@#erF@#@er you are a cardiologist. Why are you trying to mislead people? Be proud of what you trained to be. So annoying...
Click to expand...

I find this funny coming from an "OD" that pulls up 5 year old threads.
 
we are doctors!..but I think that sometimes some our colleagues are trying so hard to be MDs it just annoys me. My example was that the cardiologist was trying so hard to make us think that he was a cardiac surgeon. He tried referring to himself as "a doctor on the cardiac surgery team" and as a "cardiac surgery physician". It was so obvious he was overcompensating. My dad had to ask him " So are you a cardiac surgeon" and he said "Well no but...I am integral to etc..etc.." The point is that we are doctors in that we have a doctor of optometry degree but I don't think we do the same thing as MDs and are not physicians in the same spirit that they are. The spirit of the term in 2011 has a certain meaning and by using terms like optometric physician its just overcompensation. I am an optometrist. I take care of patients and treat them..but I am not a "real" doctor in that sense of the word. One day at thanksgiving, my aunt had a piece of food caught in her throat. She was essentially asphixiating. My brother's girlfriend (who was a 1st year OMD) essentially performed an emergency tracheostomy to save her life (macguver style). It was that moment I realized that there is a difference between our specialties that is tangible. No matter how much my ego wants me to say I am the same as an OMD and that I can do the same things, the truth is that I can't. Does that mean that I can't treat a patient with ocular allergies, blepharitis, glaucoma as well as an OMD. Your damn right I can. But if someone on a plane has a cardiac arrest and they say "Is there a doctor on the plane?" it would be absurd for me to raise my hand.

P.S someone referred me to the post on a private message..that is where the comment came from
 
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