Just wanted to put in my two cents. I did a good amount of homework and know stuff about MCW so I figured you could comment. Don't PM me, respond here. I read about the "informal reception". I ran into a guy who told me when he went to one of them one of the residents looked around, saw the chairman and then turn back to him and said something to the effect like "oh no, he's (the chairman) looking at me. Please talk. Say something." I'm not making that up! It just seems that if the chair and PD show up and then all of the residents then this is not as informal as would originally appear.
If you've been around there for 3 years, how many of the residents actually know you by name and how many do you hang out with? How many do you know to the point that they'll give you their candid opinion?
I've talked with people. From what I've learned many statements you've made are false (I'm not saying intentionally false).
"Residents feel adequately trained in basic procedures such as spine and SI joint injections." What numbers do you have to back this up? My understanding is that you'll leave the residency with actually doing (not watching) anywhere from 0-10 spinal interventional procedures.
This is a program that went unmatched a few years ago. How many of the residents there are graduates of MCW medical school? Unless it's a top tier program there should usually be a few or more than a few residents who stay there from their medical school. That may be why you've been flown to Hawaii.
Everyone should be a smart buyer and realize that many interviews are literally sales jobs. You never hear of RIC residents being sent to board review courses because they don't need them. Many poor residency programs that I've heard about send their residents to board review courses so they can get the teaching they should be getting in residency. The residents who took the oral boards earlier this year would've graduated in 2005. How many of them were there and how many are now board certified? The answer should be 100%. These are the tough questions people must ask about residencies.
I would be more than happy to reply. I'll address each of your points in order. To start with, the PD and Chair did show up at the informal gathering on the night before the interview. They introduced themselves and answered any questions. They then left, and applicants had about two hours alone with the residents. I can't speak for every resident's relationship with the Chair so I don't know why the resident you mentioned would act the way he/she did. I can say that my own experience has been wholly positive. Dr. Dillingham has been tremendously supportive of my interest in PM&R and of my research. Is some of that support merely a recruiting tactic? Possiby, but a lot of what he has helped me with makes me a more competitive applicant at other programs too.
With regards to how many of the residents know my name....I don't know. A lot. Many say hello to me (by name) in the hospital when I see them, but I don't keep a running tally....sorry. I don't hang out with them on a regular basis. I don't know many medical students that do hang out with residents on a regular basis. Two of them have given me very candid advice about which of the programs I am interviewing at would give me the type of training I am looking for. They weren't trying to sell me on MCW at all, it never even came up. Just giving me advice.
The information I got on the resident's comfort with interventional spinal procedures is admittedly "soft". It was just what I was told. MCW was my first interview and I did not ask many questions the way I should have. The interview process is one that is learned and improved upon with experience. Instead of asking "do you feel comfortable doing these things?" I should have asked for the numbers. These are things I will ask at my future interviews. I certainly am not trying to mislead anyone and agree with you 100% on this point. So I don't honestly know how comfortable they all feel with these types of procedures. Also as for whether or not the residents are being candid, how will I know if all of the other programs' residents are telling me the truth when they say they're happy. The FEEL I get from the MCW residents is that they are truly happy and that they are getting good training.
In terms of number of MCW graduates in the program, as of now I don't think there are any. BUT, I can count the number of students from MCW that went into PM&R in the last several years on one hand. I don't know why this is. There have only been a few that I know of. They were very competitive applicants from what I've heard. One is at UW and one at Colorado....there might be a couple more. Very competitive candidates tend to go to very competitive programs. MCW is not a top tier program (I never said it was) and, from what I understand, it was even less so 3 or 4 years ago. They are at the tail end of making some major changes/improvements. So I don't think you can use the number of MCW grads in the program as an indicator of the current quality of the program. Also, I don't think you can say the program is weak for offering to send its residents to a renowned board review course (Kessler). It is, after all, a REVIEW course. They are not expecting residents to go there in order to learn things they were not taught here. It is merely something offered to help residents improve thier performance on the exam. As I mentioned before, one of Dr. Dillingham's goals is to have an Elkin's Award winner from MCW and he sees this as a way to possibly achieve that goal. Not all residents go, it's just been offered to them. Now, would it be ideal to have that level of teaching at one's own institution? Of course, but then it wouldn't be MCW, it would be Kessler and we wouldn't be having this discussion. The same point goes for your comment about never hearing of RIC residents going other places for training/review...it's RIC! They attract some of the best and brightest applicants in the country. It has it's reputation for a reason and I never said MCW was at that level. And I don't mean that residents at other programs (eg MCW) aren't bright. So I see your point, but I don't think it's entirely accurate.
Overall I agree with you that one should be skeptical and ask "the hard questions". Programs, especially ones that are trying to improve their image, will throw quite a sales pitch to attract more competitive applicants. Admittedly I did not get some of the hard data that I should have, but I am speaking truthfully when I say that I think MCW is/will be a great program. This is why: They have leadership committed to making positive changes and they have demonstrated that they are serious about it over the last 3-4 years. It's not Kessler or RIC etc. and nobody here would claim that. I think people should come and check it out for themselves just as they should any program. My experience here as a student has been great and the department has treated me extremely well. I will admit that my view of the program is largely one sided. I can't help that at this point. Once I have completed my interviews (which include places like RIC and UW) I will have a more balanced perspective. Once I am done with residency I will be even more aware of what makes an outstanding program. Unfortunately that's just how it goes. As senior medical students it's really hard to know how to ask the correct questions and obtain the best information about programs right from the start. All we have to go by is advice from those ahead of us, which is why I appreciate comments/challenges such as yours (even if they seem rather pointed and inflammatory at times).
I apologize for throwing off the course of this thread. I didn't know where else to respond and I felt somewhat attacked.
