a special kind of feeling . . .

Arctic Char · Jan 27, 2007

. . . finally knowing what you want to do.

for years, all i've ever wanted was to get to med school. i fought hard, and now i've been here for 1.5 years. then i found myself scared and uncomfortable because i didn't know exactly what i wanted to do.

hmmm, neuro? thats my background afterall, not bad pay, or bad lifestyle. kind of boring, but occassionally very very interesting. i could match at my choice.

wait, anesthesiology! my pharmacology degrees could come in handy for matching. great lifestyle, interesting work, great pay. becoming competitive. but not so exciting. "hi, i'm an anesthesiologist"😴

ooh, radiology. mucho de nero $, great lifestyle, and i know i can look at films all day long. i love anatomy, and i love imaging - one of the most elegant of diagnostic tools. highly competitive. could i match, and would i like the people i matched with?

surgery - i'd love to be a surgeon. i would enjoy the use of technical skills. i like thinking and fixing. but those hours man . . . damn those hours and length of training. overworked and underpaid - is an understatement.

neurosurgery - worth the long hours. so cool, and i know i would love it. love it, love it, love it. but my kids would hate me. i'd like my kids to love me.

Emergency Medicine - ding!!! work hard and fast. no time to chat about your puppies and bunny rabbits or your grandmom's fruitcake. minor procedures - awesome, check. didn't take your meds? refer to PC - easy, check. dude, HELICOPTERS!?!?!?! check plus. challenge and unanticipated demands? perfect for me. i'd still get to kayak, ski, and climb - even as an academic EP. money is good, insurance hassles are low, hours are great. active, interesting, rewarding. BLADOW!!! i'm gonna be an EP. oh, and did i mention i would be able to meet peope outside of work? very likely, and very important

besst of luck any other undecided's out there . . . best cliched advice: be honest with yourself.

Wizard of Oz · Jan 27, 2007

MtMed said:
wait, anesthesiology! my pharmacology degrees could come in handy for matching

Especially for the more competative specialities, any degree that you had before med school can be trumped by some other applicant with a better med school showing (AOA, step I, M3, LOR's, etc.) than you unless you used it to make connections for significant research.

Arctic Char · Jan 27, 2007

you mean like several first author publications from Vanderbilt Clinical Pharmacology . . . of U. Washington Pharmacology? sorry dude, but i got the goods in that department.

ok, power trip over. you probably have a very good point. and it makes sense that that would be the case - i mean, if i were a PD i'd want someone who has been working hard despite their background.

Wizard of Oz · Jan 27, 2007

I stand by my point. Somebody with significantly higher board scores than you will still be favored overall, with intangible exceptions being where your research specifically coincides with a given PD here or there. Of course then you run the risk of being endorsed by a fierce competitor of the PD so even then the advantage is questionable.

I too have first author publications in clinical pathology as well as others in basic sciences from my premed days, but they're not going to get me into UCSF path over somebody with better boards or especially a mudphud with better boards. One thing I've learned in my career education is that there is no such thing as having the goods when the goods are part subjective (as in M3 performance).

I would use my own example as a med tech/microbiologist to contrast in the case of infectious diseases, but that's not really a competative enough specialty to matter.

Besides, your OP specifically said degrees. If you would have just said pharmacology publications rather than pharmacology degrees, I would have read right through it without blinking.

I spend a lot of time on pre-allo and non-trad informing people that medical school is for all intents and purposes a starting over point, which it is.

In response to the sentiment of the thread, I would encourage anyone and everyone to wipe their slate clean as far as considering specialties in the preclinical years is concerned. For one, the future (compensation, turf-wars, etc.) is too cloudy; and second, you really haven't been exposed to enough of the specialties you're not considering to make an informed decision.

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=317626

Arctic Char · Jan 27, 2007

medical school is for all intents and purposes a starting over point, which it is.

i couldn't agree with you more. its part relieving, and part disappointing. but anything on the CV is substance, and it does count for something. maybe not much relative to boards, SLOR's, etc. but something nonetheless . . .

besides, its become clear to me that just knowing the game and how to play it will get you farther than any grade, in whatever class, will ever get you.

we think alike my friend

Wizard of Oz · Jan 27, 2007

MtMed said:
i couldn't agree with you more. its part relieving, and part disappointing. but anything on the CV is substance, and it does count for something. maybe not much relative to boards, SLOR's, etc. but something nonetheless . . .

besides, its become clear to me that just knowing the game and how to play it will get you farther than any grade, in whatever class, will ever get you.

we think alike my friend

👍

boulux · Jan 28, 2007

MtMed said:
. . . finally knowing what you want to do.

for years, all i've ever wanted was to get to med school. i fought hard, and now i've been here for 1.5 years. then i found myself scared and uncomfortable because i didn't know exactly what i wanted to do.

hmmm, neuro? thats my background afterall, not bad pay, or bad lifestyle. kind of boring, but occassionally very very interesting. i could match at my choice.

wait, anesthesiology! my pharmacology degrees could come in handy for matching. great lifestyle, interesting work, great pay. becoming competitive. but not so exciting. "hi, i'm an anesthesiologist"😴

ooh, radiology. mucho de nero $, great lifestyle, and i know i can look at films all day long. i love anatomy, and i love imaging - one of the most elegant of diagnostic tools. highly competitive. could i match, and would i like the people i matched with?

surgery - i'd love to be a surgeon. i would enjoy the use of technical skills. i like thinking and fixing. but those hours man . . . damn those hours and length of training. overworked and underpaid - is an understatement.

neurosurgery - worth the long hours. so cool, and i know i would love it. love it, love it, love it. but my kids would hate me. i'd like my kids to love me.

Emergency Medicine - ding!!! work hard and fast. no time to chat about your puppies and bunny rabbits or your grandmom's fruitcake. minor procedures - awesome, check. didn't take your meds? refer to PC - easy, check. dude, HELICOPTERS!?!?!?! check plus. challenge and unanticipated demands? perfect for me. i'd still get to kayak, ski, and climb - even as an academic EP. money is good, insurance hassles are low, hours are great. active, interesting, rewarding. BLADOW!!! i'm gonna be an EP. oh, and did i mention i would be able to meet peope outside of work? very likely, and very important

besst of luck any other undecided's out there . . . best cliched advice: be honest with yourself.

great post. It sounds like emergency is really a great field in the states. Plus, it's only 3 years of residency. Here, it's 5 years of post-md and there's only 7-8 match per year in the whole province. There's another alternative though. We can do 2 years of FP then one extra year of emergency, but this option is a little bit less attractive.

anon-y-mouse · Jan 28, 2007

Wizard of Oz said:
Especially for the more competative specialities, any degree that you had before med school can be trumped by some other applicant with a better med school showing (AOA, step I, M3, LOR's, etc.) than you unless you used it to make connections for significant research.

In MANY cases, especially at top 10 institutions, a PhD (i.e. MD/PhD or a PhD obtained before med school) can propel a candidate to the top. Much of my family is in academic medicine and makes decisions about ranking applicants every year. The value of potential NIH R01's and research fame to the university is undeniable... and makes up for lack of AOA, a lower board score, etc. 230 + PhD > 240. Mudphuds are quite the hot stuff.

tomatoattack · Jan 28, 2007

What are mudphuds? (May be showing how much I dislike research with this by asking this question)

boulux · Jan 28, 2007

tomatoattack said:
What are mudphuds? (May be showing how much I dislike research with this by asking this question)

I guess that means M.D. / Ph.D

Arctic Char · Jan 30, 2007

boulux has it right.

TheMightyAngus · Jan 30, 2007

anon-y-mouse said:
In MANY cases, especially at top 10 institutions, a PhD (i.e. MD/PhD or a PhD obtained before med school) can propel a candidate to the top. Much of my family is in academic medicine and makes decisions about ranking applicants every year. The value of potential NIH R01's and research fame to the university is undeniable... and makes up for lack of AOA, a lower board score, etc. 230 + PhD > 240. Mudphuds are quite the hot stuff.

Although I agree with you, it's interesting to note that in one study of ortho residency program directors, MD/PhD candidacy was rated a whopping 17th out of 26 selection factors.

AOA was ranked 8th.

Step 1 score was ranked 2nd.

Rotation at Director's Institution was ranked 1st.

Just shows that these factors are often specialty dependent.

Bernstein AD, et al. Bull Hosp Jt Dis. 2002-2003;61(1-2):49-57. An analysis of orthopaedic residency selection criteria.

crazy_cavalier · Jan 30, 2007

My undergraduate degree is 375 sq inches. Will that help me land a sweet residency?

deleted77919 · Jan 30, 2007

crazy_cavalier said:
My undergraduate degree is 375 sq inches. Will that help me land a sweet residency?

The UVa diploma is awfully sweet. I'm a little sad that it will dwarf my Med School diploma tho . . .

Gut Shot · Jan 30, 2007

crazy_cavalier said:
My undergraduate degree is 375 sq inches. Will that help me land a sweet residency?

No, but it can come in handy if you have the green apple splatters and run out of TP.

a special kind of feeling . . .

Arctic Char

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