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Fargus McElroy

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Hey guys,
As some of you may know, the Navy awarded its HPSP Dental Corps recruits a $20,000 signing bonus and the Army and Air Force did not. I've heard rumors that a bonus was in the works for the other branches and was going through Congress. I've also heard rumors that it would be retroactive going back a year. I was wondering if anyone had any legitimate information about this?
Thanks!
 
Fargus McElroy said:
Hey guys,
As some of you may know, the Navy awarded its HPSP Dental Corps recruits a $20,000 signing bonus and the Army and Air Force did not. I've heard rumors that a bonus was in the works for the other branches and was going through Congress. I've also heard rumors that it would be retroactive going back a year. I was wondering if anyone had any legitimate information about this?
Thanks!
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I don't know about rewarding past students, but this years class of Navy HPSP students will most likely not get the bonus because they do not have the money yet.
 
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I know that some of the guys in my class who went on the 3 yr Navy HPSP this year got the 20k bonus already. I was talking to one of them yesterday. So apparently it is already being dished out. He said it came out to something like 15k after taxes..still not a bad gig. I wish the AF had done this when I signed for the 4 yr. Hopefully this "retroactive" stuff happens..and the AF buys it :laugh:
 
Considering the Air Force met its goal AND has an alternate list with at least 40 people on it, I doubt they'd do a sign-on bonus. It would be nice though!
 
tigertooth08 said:
Considering the Air Force met its goal AND has an alternate list with at least 40 people on it, I doubt they'd do a sign-on bonus. It would be nice though!
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That's funny because they meet tomorrow as a board to make decisions on who'll receive the scholarships.
 
Smills91 said:
That's funny because they meet tomorrow as a board to make decisions on who'll receive the scholarships.
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Maybe they were matrixed? I saw the list with names and alternates. I met another recruitee with a 30 PAT and it's looking grim for him.

I know I had an unofficial offer in late October until the board met to slate my name for commissioning....
 
$20k seems like a very generous bonus. IT seems a little too good for the U.S gov't just to give for signing up with the navy. Is there some kind of catch to this or do they really just give it to you with no strings attached?
 
andyjl said:
$20k seems like a very generous bonus. IT seems a little too good for the U.S gov't just to give for signing up with the navy. Is there some kind of catch to this or do they really just give it to you with no strings attached?
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Mine was given to me with no strings attached, except for the whole signing my life away to the US government.
 
shamrock2006 said:
I know that some of the guys in my class who went on the 3 yr Navy HPSP this year got the 20k bonus already. I was talking to one of them yesterday. So apparently it is already being dished out. He said it came out to something like 15k after taxes..still not a bad gig. I wish the AF had done this when I signed for the 4 yr. Hopefully this "retroactive" stuff happens..and the AF buys it :laugh:
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I'm a little confused. The naval officer I spoke with said that the 20k bonus only applies for those sign a 4 year contract, not a 3 year.
 
goosestuff said:
It's offered with the 3-year, but you'll owe 4 active instead of 3 active duty years.
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Sorry, but I'm missing something here. So how is that any different from a 4 year contract? If you sign a 4 year, you owe 5 active years?
Thanks.
 
ChoDog said:
Sorry, but I'm missing something here. So how is that any different from a 4 year contract? If you sign a 4 year, you owe 5 active years?
Thanks.
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Taking the CSAB is a four year contract, but it runs concurrent with any HPSP obligation, so if you:

1. Have a four year HPSP and take the bonus, you owe four for the HPSP and four for the CSAB. They run together and thus you owe four years.

2. Have a three year HPSP and take the bonus, you owe three years for the HPSP and four for the CSAB. They run together, but since the CSAB is an automatic four year obligation, you now owe four years instead of three.
 
jfitzpat said:
Taking the CSAB is a four year contract, but it runs concurrent with any HPSP obligation, so if you:

1. Have a four year HPSP and take the bonus, you owe four for the HPSP and four for the CSAB. They run together and thus you owe four years.

2. Have a three year HPSP and take the bonus, you owe three years for the HPSP and four for the CSAB. They run together, but since the CSAB is an automatic four year obligation, you now owe four years instead of three.
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thanks :hardy:
 
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the other day the army recuiter emailed me to tell me that they were offering a 25k signing bonus, as well as increasing the monthly stipend to 1900 a month. I don't know about navy or air force though, I haven't had involved conversations.

I'd recommend to everyone not to rely on these forums for reliable info though. They're are special recruiters in the army and air force who deal with these scholarships and they can give you the most reliable information (and believe me, they would absolutely love to hear from you- they need dentists). Their opinions may be biased, but they're not going to lie to you.
 
NAVY DDS 2010 said:
will, I have no clue how you are qualified to state what you said, but there is a lot of very good and reliable info here. And, all three branches do have recruiters whose sole job is to handle the scholarships for the various health professions. That said, just because a recruiter has the job doesn't mean they are always correct or know all the answers. That is where some of us who have intimate knowledge of various things give our input. Plus, do you not think that the recruiters and high ranking dental offciers don't visit this website? I know of several officers who are very knowledgable in the HPSP and HSCP scholarships who from time to time give their input from time to time. If something is wrong or not totally correct, they say so. Plus, there are times when I don't know the answer and I will e-mail them to get the answer.

As for the Army, they aren't the only ones increasing the stipend. It is a DOD increase. All branches get an increase in the stipend for the HPSP scholarship to ~$1900.
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Totally agree with this post. You'll get more accurate info from this board than from a recruiter. Also, Navy DDS is right. Not only does he know what he is talking about, but I also know for a fact that high-ranking Medical/Dental Corps officers read and post on these boards.
 
will9631 said:
the other day the army recuiter emailed me to tell me that they were offering a 25k signing bonus, as well as increasing the monthly stipend to 1900 a month. I don't know about navy or air force though, I haven't had involved conversations.

I'd recommend to everyone not to rely on these forums for reliable info though. They're are special recruiters in the army and air force who deal with these scholarships and they can give you the most reliable information (and believe me, they would absolutely love to hear from you- they need dentists). Their opinions may be biased, but they're not going to lie to you.
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In my experience, the recruiters I talked to were recruiting for 2-3 years. None of them had done it before, all were enlisted, and none of them had worked in a dental clinic. They obviously did know a lot about the military, but were just clueless on some things. Examples of misinformation: one thought that our four years in dental school counted for pay, so we would graduate as a CPT with 4 years, another thought our 4 years in dental school counted as our 4 years of IRR time, so we would only only 4 years active duty after graduation. We heard salary numbers all over the spectrum, and many of us were told that they don't deploy dentists for the first year after graduation. So don't think the recruiters know everything. Personally, I would much rather talk to someone who has been through the process recently, we can tell you exactly how much we're making, what kind of work we're doing, etc... Did you know that in Germany there's an extra pay called COLA that works out to about $1000 a month. Did you know that you don't have to wait for your recruiter to submit your wishlist? You can submit it straight to CPT Pratt-Chambers. Did you know some states won't charge you to renew your license annually if you're in the military (WA won't). And watch out when you do graduate, all of us in my class had trouble getting switched from Army Reserves to Active Duty, especially if you did OBC before graduating.
 
Chachito said:
We heard salary numbers all over the spectrum, and many of us were told that they don't deploy dentists for the first year after graduation. So don't think the recruiters know everything.
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I have heard the deployment thing from many sources. Can someone verify this as fact or myth?
 
NAVY DDS 2010 said:
...I will be the first to state that there are times where all of us who post in the mildent forum regularly have left a few facts out, but rarely is out information way out in right field. But, it gets brought to out attention fairly quickly.
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great points all. this is actually one of the reasons i have become more active on SDN since graduation from dental school. while i was finishing school, i really wished this forum had more information regarding active duty life in the dental corps. now that i am living it, i have to ability (along with more then a few others) to pass along 'boots on the ground' perspective.

regarding the earlier statement about recruiters not lying to you...wow. just wow. while they may not lie outright, truth can be omitted, facts can be distorted, and information may not be the freshest out there. these folks arent bad people, they just have a really hard job. some are twilighters, others stuck in a outlying command because of their earlier performance. the HMC who recruited me was a guy who had about 2 weeks of dental training 20 years ago in corpsman school, so there was no way he could tell me about the Navy dental corps from an inside, much less officer's, perspective. i had to poke around on my own, make contacts, and do some leg work to figure stuff out. the HPSP was a great deal for me, but dont think it was the recruiter's awesome sales job that made me sign a contract.
 
NAVY DDS 2010 said:
will, I have no clue how you are qualified to state what you said, but there is a lot of very good and reliable info here. And, all three branches do have recruiters whose sole job is to handle the scholarships for the various health professions. That said, just because a recruiter has the job doesn't mean they are always correct or know all the answers. That is where some of us who have intimate knowledge of various things give our input. Plus, do you not think that the recruiters and high ranking dental offciers don't visit this website? I know of several officers who are very knowledgable in the HPSP and HSCP scholarships who from time to time give their input from time to time. If something is wrong or not totally correct, they say so. Plus, there are times when I don't know the answer and I will e-mail them to get the answer.

As for the Army, they aren't the only ones increasing the stipend. It is a DOD increase. All branches get an increase in the stipend for the HPSP scholarship to ~$1900.
Click to expand...



woah, you take offense way too easily. I was simply saying that if you're really interested you should go talk to those recruiters, they love to hear from you. I didn't mean to say that there aren't people here who know what they're talking about, I've learned a hell of alot from reading these forums and you sound like an excellent person to talk to about this subject, but there is some misinformation around here too. I haven't browsed the military area much, but I have seen it in other areas- my only point is that to get the bottom line you should get it from the horse's mouth.

I probably won't be back to check this thread again so if you want to yell at me more feel free to do so, but again I reiterate that I didn't mean to doubt the validity of your advice. In the end all input is valuable and you have the added advantage of being unbiased. If anything I just wanted to pass on that I've found the recuiters I've talked to to be incredibly helpful and that anyone whose interested should be sure to make use of them.

again, I sincerely apologize for offending you, you obviously know a hell of alot more about this subject than me and hopefully I can get more info from you in the future.

all the best
 
dheav005 said:
great points all. this is actually one of the reasons i have become more active on SDN since graduation from dental school. while i was finishing school, i really wished this forum had more information regarding active duty life in the dental corps. now that i am living it, i have to ability (along with more then a few others) to pass along 'boots on the ground' perspective.

regarding the earlier statement about recruiters not lying to you...wow. just wow. while they may not lie outright, truth can be omitted, facts can be distorted, and information may not be the freshest out there. these folks arent bad people, they just have a really hard job. some are twilighters, others stuck in a outlying command because of their earlier performance. the HMC who recruited me was a guy who had about 2 weeks of dental training 20 years ago in corpsman school, so there was no way he could tell me about the Navy dental corps from an inside, much less officer's, perspective. i had to poke around on my own, make contacts, and do some leg work to figure stuff out. the HPSP was a great deal for me, but dont think it was the recruiter's awesome sales job that made me sign a contract.
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I'm sorry you had a bad experience, but the army recruiter I talked to was wonderful. Most importantly, he put me in contact with some officers still in dental school and some currently in the dental core who have been extremely helpful with the few bits of information that the recruiter himself couldn't help me with.
 
I had a rather pleasant recruiting experience as well. I was given the numbers of a few general dentists in the Navy and spoke to them about their experiences. Then there was the interview that was more like a laid back conversation with an officer in the dental corps. I never felt pressured though because I was pretty sure I was going to do this no matter what.
 
i see you've never actually been in the military. take it from someone who has. they WILL lie.



will9631 said:
the other day the army recuiter emailed me to tell me that they were offering a 25k signing bonus, as well as increasing the monthly stipend to 1900 a month. I don't know about navy or air force though, I haven't had involved conversations.

I'd recommend to everyone not to rely on these forums for reliable info though. They're are special recruiters in the army and air force who deal with these scholarships and they can give you the most reliable information (and believe me, they would absolutely love to hear from you- they need dentists). Their opinions may be biased, but they're not going to lie to you.
Click to expand...
 
I just got an email from an army hpsp saying they are offering a 20000 signing bonus. Since this is new this year you think the AF might also?

I know people touched on this saying its out of DOD but was just hoping it might.
 
IS the 20,000 dollar sign on bonus a lump sum(after taxes) deposit as you begin school? Or is it broken down over the 48 months of school? Thanks
 
So what exactly is the difference if you go become a dentist through the army, navy, or air force? Is it just the people that you work on after?

Also, how long exactly is the contract they make you sign? I've heard it's 7 years but does that include the 4 years you're spending in dental school?

These are the 2 questions that have been bugging me.

Any input would be appreciated 🙂
 
Hi, the key difference is the environment in which you want to practice dentistry. You will be stationed in very different places depending upon which branch you serve. You will also be given different options in specializing and practicing. They make you sign a contract for 4 years, but you will also have to serve 4 years on the IRR after those 4 years are complete where you are in the reserves but are very highly unlikely to ever be called up. I think you only need to continue to communicate with your branch and there are no monthly obligations or anything like that. The scholarship is pretty similar amongst all the branches except for the huge bonus the Navy is now giving: 20,000 bucks for signing the contract.
 
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BuckeyMcGee said:
Hi, the key difference is the environment in which you want to practice dentistry. You will be stationed in very different places depending upon which branch you serve. You will also be given different options in specializing and practicing. They make you sign a contract for 4 years, but you will also have to serve 4 years on the IRR after those 4 years are complete where you are in the reserves but are very highly unlikely to ever be called up. I think you only need to continue to communicate with your branch and there are no monthly obligations or anything like that. The scholarship is pretty similar amongst all the branches except for the huge bonus the Navy is now giving: 20,000 bucks for signing the contract.
Click to expand...

Ah, thanks for that. So the army and air force aren't giving one as of yet, or have they decided they will and just haven't brought it around yet? Also, in the summer between school years, what do they want you to do? Do you have to go to boot camp and training or just take military leadership classes?

One more question. What rank do they give you as a military dentist? I heard you're an officer and can even go to captain. And what are the wages they give you? (I know it changes with what rank you are)

Thanks!
 
predental7200 said:
Ah, thanks for that. So the army and air force aren't giving one as of yet, or have they decided they will and just haven't brought it around yet? Also, in the summer between school years, what do they want you to do? Do you have to go to boot camp and training or just take military leadership classes?

One more question. What rank do they give you as a military dentist? I heard you're an officer and can even go to captain. And what are the wages they give you? (I know it changes with what rank you are)

Thanks!
Click to expand...

You get out of dental school as an O-3 which means Captain in the Air Force and Army and LT in the Navy. LT and Captain are higher ranks in the Navy than in the Army or Air Force.
 
Hey guys.. I'm just reading all of this and blown away that the NAVY (and maybe other branches) are giving a $20,000 signing bonus. I have been sort of walking the fence on whether I wanted to do this or not.. but that much money could pay for the undergrad debt I have already and still have more left over! Please let me know the best way to get more info on this and the scholarships in general! Sorry.. my advisor isn't the greatest at my University!
 
NAVY DDS 2010 said:
One thing that I will highly suggest, DO NOT TAKE THE SCHOLARSHIP if the money is the reason this is attractive to you. Your life can be very miserable if you are in it for the money once you get on active duty and realize your friends are making more and they have more freedom.
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Your life can be very miserable making ridiculous loan payments on dental school debt, as well as any other preexisting debt too.

As for being patriotic and serving your country you can do that in a number of ways, many of which don't involve joining the military. In fact, wouldn't you be serving your country as a dentist in the private sector? Also, I wonder how many dentists stay in the military past their contract time.
 
Received a letter from AMEDD on the $20,000 signing bonus.

"The Critical Skills Accession Bonus (CSAB) is a one-time $20,000 sign-on bonus (less tax) for students who meet the requirements of and are accepted into the HPSP program after Jan. 4, 2008. Acceptance of the bonus includes a four-year active duty and four-year Reserve service obligation, which can be fulfilled concurrent with service obligations related to HPSP upon completion of the residency programs and becoming licensed to pratice."

But like NAVY DDS 2010 said, don't just do it for the money. I've seen many young soldiers joining the Army for college money and end up hating life in the military.
 
So does this mean that the 20,000 bonus does not apply for the 3 year HPSP???
 
lol you CAN get it for the 3yr HPSP but it would be dumb to do so. If you accept the 20k bonus, you accept a 4 year commitment as compared to your 3 yr ADT commitment with the 3 yr HPSP.

Sooo you'd be losing a year of freedom to choose mil vs civilian for 20k and will still have paid a yr of tuition... a great deal for the military but a horrible deal for you
 
The reason I asked is because the recruiter told me that the 3 year HPSP still comes with the 20,000 signing bonus. That was a really big draw for me to pay down some of my preexisting debt.....I really need to think about this now.
 
ive been in the army reserve for 7 years and while i think the military is a great thing, the one thing you need to realize and be ok with before you ever sign anything is that you will go where they send you, when they send you, and for however long as they see fit. if you like to be intimate with you gf/bf or if you get homesick easily, or if you like being your own boss, seriously reconsider joining the military. let me tell you from experience. they call it "service" for a reason. because you dont get paid enough for what you do. you might say to yourself "i think the pay is fair," but when you find out how hard youll be working and the long hours youll be putting in and how much of your life (wife/kids/friends)that youre missing, thats when you realize...this really is service. im sure being a dentist would be easier than enlisted (and much much much safer), but its still service. the military can seem like a wonderful adventure from the movies we watch, but those movies are 2 hrs, not 15 month deployments that seem like 20 years. i will say there are times ive had a blast. then there are far more times where i wanted to go home soooooooooo bad or been so tired i fell asleep standing up, and i have a pretty easy job in the army.

so, if you are doing the military for the money, unless its gonna cost you 400k to pay for school, dont do it. (period)

if you are doing it because you want to "give back"/do something that you can look back on and be truly proud of/ help all those brave soldiers over there/ serve your country/ then do it and be proud you did.
 
OBL1V1ON said:
ive been in the army reserve for 7 years and while i think the military is a great thing, the one thing you need to realize and be ok with before you ever sign anything is that you will go where they send you, when they send you, and for however long as they see fit. if you like to be intimate with you gf/bf or if you get homesick easily, or if you like being your own boss, seriously reconsider joining the military. let me tell you from experience. they call it "service" for a reason. because you dont get paid enough for what you do. you might say to yourself "i think the pay is fair," but when you find out how hard youll be working and the long hours youll be putting in and how much of your life (wife/kids/friends)that youre missing, thats when you realize...this really is service. im sure being a dentist would be easier than enlisted (and much much much safer), but its still service. the military can seem like a wonderful adventure from the movies we watch, but those movies are 2 hrs, not 15 month deployments that seem like 20 years. i will say there are times ive had a blast. then there are far more times where i wanted to go home soooooooooo bad or been so tired i fell asleep standing up, and i have a pretty easy job in the army.

so, if you are doing the military for the money, unless its gonna cost you 400k to pay for school, dont do it. (period)

if you are doing it because you want to "give back"/do something that you can look back on and be truly proud of/ help all those brave soldiers over there/ serve your country/ then do it and be proud you did.
Click to expand...

i am not too optimistic about civilian career for a new dentist just out of school with loads of debt, either. first off, i'd pray for a $100K associateship, then 40% tax rate(both federal and state, with a high likelihood that fed tax will increase when democrats take over) kicks in and leaves me a petty 60K at disposal.

subtracting student loan, insurace, living expense, how much would a new dentist take home after all? plus there is no benefits or paid vacation whatsoever. on the other hand, the only way that you could lose financially is either you set up a successful private practice immediately out of school or get selected for one of those prestigious specialties. Even without taking paid tuition and stipend into consideration, the military paid package for new dentists is on track to exceed that of civilian counterpart.
 
iLuvDAT said:
i am not too optimistic about civilian career for a new dentist just out of school with loads of debt, either. first off, i'd pray for a $100K associateship, then 40% tax rate(both federal and state, with a high likelihood that fed tax will increase when democrats take over) kicks in and leaves me a petty 60K at disposal.

subtracting student loan, insurace, living expense, how much would a new dentist take home after all? plus there is no benefits or paid vacation whatsoever. on the other hand, the only way that you could lose financially is either you set up a successful private practice immediately out of school or get selected for one of those prestigious specialties. Even without taking paid tuition and stipend into consideration, the military paid package for new dentists is on track to exceed that of civilian counterpart.
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I think the main point that prior service folks are trying to get across is to make sure you know what you're getting into when you sign that dotted line. When you're stuck in the sandbox for 15+ months, away from your family/friends, eating MREs in 150+ degree heat, getting rained on by mortars and rockets.... it will be too late for regrets. (Maybe a little too dramatic? :laugh:)

Life in the military can be great, but it's not for everyone.
 
MoLarr said:
I think the main point that prior service folks are trying to get across is to make sure you know what you're getting into when you sign that dotted line. When you're stuck in the sandbox for 15+ months, away from your family/friends, eating MREs in 150+ degree heat, getting rained on by mortars and rockets.... it will be too late for regrets. (Maybe a little too dramatic? :laugh:)

Life in the military can be great, but it's not for everyone.
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Yeah do USAF if u can... shorter deployments.
 
MaximusD said:
Yeah do USAF if u can... shorter deployments.
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But why would anyone ever want to be an Air Force pogue? Hahaha just kidding! The Air Force is an excellent choice. If I wasn't already in the Army, I'd apply through them.
 
i was seriously considering doing the military thing through the army. ive done the army thing before so the dental side would probably be a breeze compared to what ive been through, but on valentines day my incredibly hot gf gave me a night i wont soon forget...then i thought to myself, "if i save a little money in the long run by missing out on this (and possible child births) for year deployments...id gladly pay on loans" 😉 if i was single though...id be all over the military deal.
single life in the military can be awesome. traveling all over europe/the world with you battle buddies, staying at hostles, getting drunk every weekend with you buds, im sure it would be a little diff. being an officer. i know a few officers (that were enlisted before) that hate being officers, because in their words, "they dont really get to hangout with the boys (enlisted soldiers) anymore" (we enlisted boys know how to have fun) but im sure youd have a few fellow dentists to get hammered with. 😀

although from talking to dentists that did the military thing and came back... the few that i talkled to seem pretty negative about it. the majority of the others that i talked to were lifers that are now faculty at my dental college. the ones that did 4-6 years and got out said that when they got back they were debt free, however, they didnt have a practice, had not networked into the community, didnt have a patient base, while their friends that didnt do the military had all that stuff, some had paid off their loans and bought nice homes, and were quite well off and happy.

im not telling anyone to not do the military, like i said, if i was single id be traveling the world having fun with no debt on the military's dime. im just mentioning some things i was told by former military dentists.
 
I found this from the "PRNewswire" website about the Army $20k bonus.

"The CSAB is a one-time $20,000 sign-on bonus (less tax) for students
who meet the requirements of and are accepted into the HPSP program after
Jan. 4, 2008."

Which sucks for me, since I was commissioned in September, but hey, it's great for all you new guys!

Heres the website I got the quote from, if anyone is interested.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/s...08/0004747652&EDATE=FRI+Feb+01+2008,+09:54+AM
 
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Just an FYI, anyone considering doing the NAVY please PM me, I'm planning on doing the HSCP and if I can "recruit" somebody to the Navy scholarship(either the HPSP or HSCP) before dental school, I can get bumped up from the E-6 pay grade to the E-7 paygrade. It would help me out a lot and allow me to get a few extra hundred dollars for the first couple months of dental school.
Thanks in advance.
 
Update:

At least for physicians/med students, the USAF is now offering the 20k bonus. So says my recruiter. I have asked him to verify it as fact, and he hasn't yet gotten back to me. I will update when I hear his source.

Happy money-day to all.
 
MaximusD said:
Update:

At least for physicians/med students, the USAF is now offering the 20k bonus. So says my recruiter. I have asked him to verify it as fact, and he hasn't yet gotten back to me. I will update when I hear his source.

Happy money-day to all.
Click to expand...


Yep, my recruiter has told this to me too. He said that nothing is in writing, though. He also said that if it does become official, then we would get the bonus if we haven't started dental school. So hopefully it becomes official soon!
 
hattrack04 said:
Yep, my recruiter has told this to me too. He said that nothing is in writing, though. He also said that if it does become official, then we would get the bonus if we haven't started dental school. So hopefully it becomes official soon!
Click to expand...

20K for AF.. what a news.

I can't help but wonder, why would AF do this if they don't have difficulty filling up the spots (or so they claim)? Let's say if there are 60 HPSPs, they would spend 1.2 MM in exchange for practically nothing, since things are pretty much lock in now.

I'm totally up for this, but something doesn't make sense.
 
bass for less said:
20K for AF.. what a news.

I can't help but wonder, why would AF do this if they don't have difficulty filling up the spots (or so they claim)? Let's say if there are 60 HPSPs, they would spend 1.2 MM in exchange for practically nothing, since things are pretty much lock in now.

I'm totally up for this, but something doesn't make sense.
Click to expand...

My recruiter said that they didn't even ask for it, but they were given it because the Army and Navy had it. It most likely won't be for 3 year commitments, only 4 year.
 
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