How do I get the chance to shadow?

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Deanis

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  1. Medical Student
I've tried to get some shadowing experience, but the doctors I've talked to haven't been open to it. They've said they only take medical students. How does a premed get this type of experience? Any insights or tips?

Thanks.
 
Just keep asking different docs, hopefully atleast one will be nice enough to allow you to tag along
 
Just keep asking different docs, hopefully atleast one will be nice enough to allow you to tag along

exactly. you will always find some docs who won't allow it, which is lame, but for every one that doesnt allow it you will find one that will. it also might depend what kind of doc you were asking to shadow....

the way i did it was i sent a letter to like 12 docs in my city. it said a little aobut who i was, what i wanted to do, why i wanted to shadow and asked if they would be willing to let me shadow. most everyone responded, and one of them said yes and i ended up shadowing him for the entire summer...it was a great expereince.

the docs i sent letters to ranged from orthopedic surgeon, family practice/sports med, anesthesiologist, and i think i even sent one to a forensic pathologist (he said he couldnt allow it 🙁).
 
Seeing as you live in Canada, the laws aren't the same as they are here, but here in the states we have a law called HIPPA, which pretty much states that any hospital/doctor's office whose personnel do not follow strict privacy standards gets in deep ****. For this reason, a lot of "higher ups" as well as the docs themselves are nervous about letting a student come in and shadow because if you reveal any "personally identifiable health information", it's their ***. So, you're seen as a liability. I'm not sure if there is a similar law in Canada.

Either way, getting a shadow just depends on who you ask. One thing you'll notice is that the specialty that a doc is in often reflects a lot about his/her personality (and thus, I believe that doctors in certain specialties will be more open to the idea of you shadowing than doctors in other specialties). I don't want to generalize/stereotype, so I'll let you decide what areas of medicine you think would have docs who would be more open to this sort of thing, and go ask docs in those specialties.

It's tough to say whether sending letters or going in person to ask is better. You have a high chance of leaving empty handed if you just show up somewhere because the docs probably have packed schedules; however, if you do get to talk to someone, if you can present yourself well, you're in. Sending a letter gets around the issue with going in person; however, a doc has no idea who you are if you just send a letter. If you send a letter, I would recommend including that you can provide a references (make sure you actually have references), and possibly a transcript (to show that you're a serious student). Also, if they work at a hospital in which you volunteer (or if you happen to volunteer in any health care setting), be sure to include that in your letter. Sometimes, docs may need to make sure that confidentiality contracts are signed and that immunizations are up to date. If you volunteer at the hospital, this should all be taken care of already. I have gotten shadows by just going in and asking, and by sending out a letter, so it's really up to you what you want to do.

Some volunteer services offices also run job-shadowing programs (although not many do), and there may be other organizations in your area that offer them as well.

Once you do get a shadow though, always express your interest to shadow physicians in other areas of medicine and ask the doc what specialties he/she recommends you look into. Almost always at this point, they'll give you a person's number to call, or they'll talk to someone for you and you'll get you another shadow from there. Doctors know doctors, and they are your key to networking. Once you're in, you're in, and you can get a constant flow of shadows.

Shadowing is good fun, but don't go too overboard with it. Usually, all you really need is 4-6 hours in any given specialty to get a general idea for it (although more can be helpful). Shadowing is definitely a worthwhile experience, but don't think you have to do shadowing for the entire summer or anything like that.

Hope this helps
 
Here in the states, it was relatively easier to shadow a pediatrician and I didn't even have to sign anything for the patient confidentiality thing.

You can also try your own doctor or at least ask if he/she knows anyone.

G'luck
 
tardyturtle, tremendous advice. Should be included in a Pre-Allo sticky, IMHO! 👍
 
Thanks for all the great advice tardyturtle and everybody else.

I talked to a professor of mine whose husband is a doctor for advice on it. Hopefully he'll have some added insights (I don't want to shadow him, since he actaully really hates being a doctor 🙁 )
 
So I just heard back from my supervisor's husband and he said that as far as he knows, only medical students are allowed to shadow (I'm not sure if that is for just BC or for all of Canada).

Does anyone else know about this?
 
So I just heard back from my supervisor's husband and he said that as far as he knows, only medical students are allowed to shadow (I'm not sure if that is for just BC or for all of Canada).

Does anyone else know about this?

I shadowed a dermatologist for a day (in US here) and loved it. After that, I tried to schedule another day to shadow him and the response I got from his office was "he only lets medical students follow him around". It was weird because I shadowed him for a day and he totally changed his policy towards pre-medical students.

I emailed him asking whether I could shadow him. See part of the email below (his reply to my email).

Dear ______
There are medical, ethical, and legal implications of having
students in the office who are not medical students. These issues
have forced me to establish the policy of restricting students in my
office.


That is probably the only reason why they do not allow pre-medical students to shadow. As a pre-med, you become more of a liability. Hope this helps.
 
Thanks Howzat 🙁

That kind of (really) sucks. But I think I will try a few more before I give up hope on it completely. At least I will be starting to volunteer at a hospice soon, so that should give me some clinical experience I suppose, albeit, not quite the same as shadowing a doctor.
 
Tomorrow I'm shadowing a radiologist. Looking forward to it!
 
Thanks Howzat 🙁

That kind of (really) sucks. But I think I will try a few more before I give up hope on it completely. At least I will be starting to volunteer at a hospice soon, so that should give me some clinical experience I suppose, albeit, not quite the same as shadowing a doctor.

Don't worry about it. Shadowing experience is overrated. There are many other ways to explore the field of medicine.
 
So I just heard back from my supervisor's husband and he said that as far as he knows, only medical students are allowed to shadow (I'm not sure if that is for just BC or for all of Canada).

Does anyone else know about this?

thats a false statement. pre meds shadow all the time. i shadowed docs in high school for cryin out loud. its true that some docs or facilities might have that rule, but certainly not all.

every doctor i've shadowed has asked the patients permisison before I came in. on a few occsions they have said they would rather not have a student come in, but it rarely happened. and when it did, i just wiated and read a book or something.
 
...I will try a few more before I give up hope on it completely..

Don't Give Up!

One of the best pieces of advice that I've heard in awhile (actually, got it from Randy Pausch's lecture... interesting story google it), was that brick walls are there to keep "them" away. That means, they're there to weed out those who don't have the persistence to go all out and get what they want, but they're not going to stop you. If you really want to do shadowing, it's out there. You just have to ask the right person and BE PERSISTENT!

As ryserr21 said, it's often common practice for docs to ask the patients if it's okay that you observe. This usually lightens the liability because the patient consented to you hearing private health information, but some docs are still scared of the liability.

What you need to find is a doctor who is, for lack of a better term, ballzier. Usually talking to people in high places gets you somewhere, especially since these people are more able to bend the rules for you if you can convince them to. To be honest, getting a shadowing position might require bending some hospital rules. Regardless, work from the top-down, not the bottom-up, because there are too many barriers at the bottom that you'll never get through. Heads of departments (eg. Head of Surgery Department) and residency directors are good people to solicit.

Come to think of it, a residency director is probably one of the best people you can ask. For starters, I think they will be a little more receptive to the idea of you doing shadowing because they know shadowing is good experience for future medical students. Also, it doesn't take too much work on their part because they can just set you up with a resident. I have shadowed attendings and residents, and they all give you a different perspective. The attendings give you the perspective from someone who has been there for a while, but the residents (and interns) give you a much more applicable perspective and can provide more relevant information to you about being a doctor because they were in your shoes not too long ago.

Like I said before, it's all a matter of asking the right person. If you ask enough people, you're bound to get something.

Another thing I forgot to include in my previous post is that if you want to shadow, you'll definitely want to have documentation of a negative TB test from within the last year. If you informally set up the job shadow, the doc probably won't ask you for it, if you set it up through the hospital administration, they will have you tested (or require documentation of negative TB test) about 99.9% of the time before letting you do a shadow. So, in order to expedite the process of getting you into your shadowing position, just get the TB test done and out of the way. They may also want your immunizations to be up to date (really, this is for your health). The common ones are chicken pox, MMR, polio, and TD.

I hope this helps, and best of luck to you. I'm glad to hear you're volunteering with hospice. That's something I've been thinking about doing for a while. Let me know how it turns out.
 
Thanks tardyturtle.

That's an encouragement for sure. I think I'll try to make an informal application package, showing I'm not some nut off the street, have all my shots, and am dying to learn. Then send it to some higher ups as you suggest.

I'll definitely (try to) let you know how the hospice thing goes. I get client care training this weekend, so I'm pretty pumped.
 
I've tried to get some shadowing experience, but the doctors I've talked to haven't been open to it. They've said they only take medical students. How does a premed get this type of experience? Any insights or tips?

Thanks.

Um, do you have access to a database of alum of your undergrad who are willing to talk to current students for advice? It might be on file at a career services office. You could try looking up doctors in that file and contacting them.
 
Um, do you have access to a database of alum of your undergrad who are willing to talk to current students for advice? It might be on file at a career services office. You could try looking up doctors in that file and contacting them.

Along these lines, if you're in a fraternity/sorority, you may be able to do some networking with brothers/sisters who are now docs.
 
Howzat said:
I shadowed a radiologist today and must say I totally loved it. The doctor said I can definitely come in and shadow him more. How much shadowing experience is good to have? For example, today I shadowed for 4.5 hours. Is it good to have 4 to 5 days with ~5 hours on each day? Also, at what point do you feel we should be comfortable for asking LOR? I wouldn't want to ask him after just one day of shadowing for 4-5 hours since he doesn't know me well yet.

Thanks,
Howzat

Howzat,

I'm glad to hear you enjoyed your shadow. The amount of shadowing that is necessary is really up to you. Keep in mind that it's quality, and not quantity that counts. As I'm sure you've realized, even after shadowing for just four hours, you have a pretty good idea of what the doc does. I'm pretty sure that when it comes to your med school interview, they're not going to ask you how many shadowing hours you had, but rather they will ask you what you learned and how that has influenced your decision to become a physician. You can get a lot out of a four-hour shadow, but anything more doesn't hurt.

Don't go overboard, though. You don't have to do it weekly or anything. I mean, if that's something you'd like to do, and the doc is cool with it, then by all means do whatever you want. I would say that a 4-5 hour shadow is sufficient (although more doesn't hurt), and two to three sessions is definitely solid as well. Anything more than that is just icing on the cake. Keep in mind, you aren't supposed to learn everything about being a doctor in your shadowing experiences, but rather they are supposed to introduce you to different careers in medicine and let you see if medicine is right for you.

In my opinion, you will definitely want to not limit yourself to one field of medicine or one doctor. For starters, there are so many areas/specialties to explore that it would be foolish to limit yourself to just shadowing in one. Also, you'll get to know a lot of docs with some interesting perspectives. You can ask them questions about social issues in healthcare, which, in addition to just being good things to know about, are often topics of discussion in med-school interviews. Ask them what they think about the health-insurance system in America. Is universal healthcare a good idea? You'll get a lot of contrasting answers, but they will always be carefully thought out and logical answers. There is just so much to explore in this area.

As far as your letter of recommendation is concerned, that's one thing that might be best to get from a long-term shadow. You have to understand (as I'm sure you already do) that doctors are busy and don't have time to write a LOR for every student that shadows them. If you just do a one-time shadow, you can't ask for a LOR. If you do it weekly, or something like that, then feel free to ask for an LOR. If you continue to shadow them, then ask for a LOR as close to your med school application deadline so that the LOR is fresh, and often the ADCOMs prefer any LORs to be dated within a year of you applying.

Like I said above, it's all about the quality. A LOR that you get after one or two shadows probably won't have much depth about who you are as a person, and will only have very superficial information about you. Only ask for a letter of recommendation if you are confident that the doctor can write you a LOR that tells a lot about you and shows that you want to be a doctor. If the doc doesn't know you well, don't bother to ask for one.

It's really a personal thing for you to decide. When do you feel like the doc knows you well enough to write you a good LOR?

Personally, I have not asked any docs for LORs (yet), but it is a good idea to start thinking about.

Hope this helps
 
tardyturtle's post should be sticky! 👍
 
I shadowed a dermatologist for a day (in US here) and loved it. After that, I tried to schedule another day to shadow him and the response I got from his office was "he only lets medical students follow him around". It was weird because I shadowed him for a day and he totally changed his policy towards pre-medical students.

I emailed him asking whether I could shadow him. See part of the email below (his reply to my email).




That is probably the only reason why they do not allow pre-medical students to shadow. As a pre-med, you become more of a liability. Hope this helps.

A dermatologist? Was it April Fools day?
 
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