what to do with a low gpa?

vberries · Oct 20, 2008

Hi everyone,

I am hoping for advice on my current situation. Please feel free to be blunt.
I have a not so great total GPA (3.34) and an even worse science gpa. And I haven't even converted them into AADSAS GPA (which will probably be even lower when I do). So instead of applying next cycle, would it be a better idea to take one year off and take extended upper division science classes at a local university? I was thinking 2 classes a semester and dental assisting on the side. Is taking only 2 classes each semester for year enough to prove that I can handle upper division work or should I take more?
Also, what is the difference between getting a Masters and just taking extra classes to improve your GPA? Is one more preferable than the other? I'm hoping to increase my stats as much as possible so that I can get into a D school with one shot. Your help is very much appreciated. Thank you.

murff05 · Oct 20, 2008

vberries said:
Hi everyone,

I am hoping for advice on my current situation. Please feel free to be blunt.
I have a not so great total GPA (3.34) and an even worse science gpa. And I haven't even converted them into AADSAS GPA (which will probably be even lower when I do). So instead of applying next cycle, would it be a better idea to take one year off and take extended upper division science classes at a local university? I was thinking 2 classes a semester and dental assisting on the side. Is taking only 2 classes each semester for year enough to prove that I can handle upper division work or should I take more?
Also, what is the difference between getting a Masters and just taking extra classes to improve your GPA? Is one more preferable than the other? I'm hoping to increase my stats as much as possible so that I can get into a D school with one shot. Your help is very much appreciated. Thank you.

I have a lower GPA than you and I have one interview. Just make sure you do well on your DATs. A 3.34 is not low.

Enso · Oct 20, 2008

vberries said:
Hi everyone,

I am hoping for advice on my current situation. Please feel free to be blunt.
I have a not so great total GPA (3.34) and an even worse science gpa. And I haven't even converted them into AADSAS GPA (which will probably be even lower when I do). So instead of applying next cycle, would it be a better idea to take one year off and take extended upper division science classes at a local university? I was thinking 2 classes a semester and dental assisting on the side. Is taking only 2 classes each semester for year enough to prove that I can handle upper division work or should I take more?
Also, what is the difference between getting a Masters and just taking extra classes to improve your GPA? Is one more preferable than the other? I'm hoping to increase my stats as much as possible so that I can get into a D school with one shot. Your help is very much appreciated. Thank you.

Same boat. I have a 3.0 cGPA but haven't taken any sciences yet... Marketing major.

Make your app stand out in different places. Contribute something to the dental community: volunteering, do research, shadow different specialties

Then kill your DAT's and you'll be money.

chober · Oct 20, 2008

Do the community service, but I think #1 they want to see that you can handle the workload. So if you can do it load up on science courses. My community service is slim and I don't have research but I've taken quite a bit more classes for past few years to show them that I could do it.

PDizzle · Oct 20, 2008

Your GPA isn't that low but if you have time before you apply, take as many science courses that you can and ACE them!! I reccomend microbiology, anatomy or physio. They will help you once in D-school like you can't imagine!

ruomengd2000 · Oct 20, 2008

The general consensus is that you need to do well on the DAT. At least that is what everyone told me a couple months ago. I have a 3.15 overall and 3.1 Science from Cal. Doing well on the DAT is the biggest thing (IMO) you can do at the moment. Everything else will undoubtedly help but not as much.

doc toothache · Oct 20, 2008

vberries said:
Hi everyone,

I am hoping for advice on my current situation. Please feel free to be blunt.
I have a not so great total GPA (3.34) and an even worse science gpa. So instead of applying next cycle, would it be a better idea to take one year off and take extended upper division science classes at a local university? I was thinking 2 classes a semester and dental assisting on the side. Is taking only 2 classes each semester for year enough to prove that I can handle upper division work or should I take more?
Also, what is the difference between getting a Masters and just taking extra classes to improve your GPA? Is one more preferable than the other? I'm hoping to increase my stats as much as possible so that I can get into a D school with one shot. Your help is very much appreciated. Thank you.

Two classes a semester is not going to be convincing adcoms that you can "handle upper division work". You might be better served with a M.S. and high DAT. Dental assisting may be great as a source of income, otherwise it is not going to be particularly impressive.

lphiewok · Oct 20, 2008

i have 3.38 cGPA and 3.08 sGPA and 3.0 BCP GPA.
so pretty much similar as far as GPA goes.
since i have GPA that is not great, i spent lot of time studying for DAT and got a good scores (21/20/21). and also i submitted my application in end of May and got 1 interview from state school so far.

I suggest you to apply for Summer Enrichment Programs (try searching it, there are many schools who offer this) and at the program apparently you can talk to ADCOM before the application even starts. (at baylor program, 19 out of 22 people who went to the program were admitted)

also do lot of experience as dental assistant and take courses. IMO 2-3 classes would be good enough to just raise up your GPA up at little bit but make sure to do other things outside of school (volunteer, community service, and dental assistant work) and do well on your DAT!!

prydA · Oct 20, 2008

i have a sub 3.3 c/sGPA, studied hard for the DATs and got a 25 AA, and have as of right now 12 interviews.

you definitely have hope 🙂

Enso · Oct 20, 2008

doc toothache said:
Dental assisting may be great as a source of income, otherwise it is not going to be particularly impressive.

Why isn't it that impressive? I was thinking of doing this. I'd think it shows that you're immersing yourself in the field and showing interest in dentistry, if anything.

doc toothache · Oct 20, 2008

Enso said:
Why isn't it that impressive? I was thinking of doing this. I'd think it shows that you're immersing yourself in the field and showing interest in dentistry, if anything.

Dental assisting is not dentistry. As it has been said before, dental assisting is max a 1 year program which one can do right out of high school. If that is the best you can do it does not say much about the degree in hand or about the ability to be incorporated in the field for which you were trained.

Enso · Oct 20, 2008

doc toothache said:
Dental assisting is not dentistry. As it has been said before, dental assisting is max a 1 year program which one can do right out of high school. If that is the best you can do it does not say much about the degree in hand nor about the ability to be incorporated in the field for which you were trained.

I have a bachelors degree from a 4-year university. I wouldn't pursue this straight from high school.

Besides, I don't think you understand my perspective. You don't need a college degree to do shadowing, research, or volunteering either. Does that mean it "doesn't say much about you" if you do these? No. The income earned by assisting is not an underlying reason why I would do it.

It's showing you have an interest in dentistry because you #1 work in a dental office and deal with dentists first hand, and #2 get hands on experience and observe procedures that could even help you in dental school. It's essentially the same as shadowing, but you're actually providing a service. I can't imagine that not being positive on an application.

vberries · Oct 20, 2008

Thanks to everyone for responding to my questions. I think I'll go ahead and take more classes to improve my GPA and up my stats. Since I'm from CA I'm aiming hard to get into a dental school there. Hopefully one year of upper division classes, good DAT, and more dental experience would help.

Does anyone else have any recommendations on what science classes to take that would help in dental school?

vberries · Oct 20, 2008

prydA said:
i have a sub 3.3 c/sGPA, studied hard for the DATs and got a 25 AA, and have as of right now 12 interviews.

you definitely have hope 🙂

If you don't mind me asking, what were the schools that you got interviewed for and which DAT studied guides did you use to get those good scores? Thanks and congrats on all those interviews.

doc toothache · Oct 21, 2008

Enso said:
Besides, I don't think you understand my perspective. You don't need a college degree to do shadowing, research, or volunteering either. Does that mean it "doesn't say much about you" if you do these? No. The income earned by assisting is not an underlying reason why I would do it.

It's showing you have an interest in dentistry because you #1 work in a dental office and deal with dentists first hand, and #2 get hands on experience and observe procedures that could even help you in dental school. It's essentially the same as shadowing, but you're actually providing a service. I can't imagine that not being positive on an application.

Since you are convinced, there is not much of a point trying to dissuade you from your chosen path. Interestingly enough we are hard pressed to find schools that recommend dental assisting for those aspiring to pursue a career in dentistry. Even the recommended/required number of hours of shadowing are minimal. The technical aspects of dentistry, while important, rank as a distant third after diagnosis and treatment planning, something that is beyond the scope of dental assisting.

Montserrat · Oct 21, 2008

doc toothache said:
Since you are convinced, there is not much of a point trying to dissuade you from your chosen path. Interestingly enough we are hard pressed to find schools that recommend dental assisting for those aspiring to pursue a career in dentistry. Even the recommended/required number of hours of shadowing are minimal. The technical aspects of dentistry, while important, rank as a distant third after diagnosis and treatment planning, something that is beyond the scope of dental assisting.

Most dental students I know have assisted in some capacity - some more than others. Some have cut impressions, while others just know the color purple. Not really sure why you are harping on the guy. Who cares about whether or not they are learning technically sound fundamentals ? It's about exposure, not dental training. It's more of a "cover your ass" activity, and to make sure it's for you before blowing 4 years in your prime of life.

Enso · Oct 21, 2008

montserrat said:
most dental students i know have assisted in some capacity - some more than others. Some have cut impressions, while others just know the color purple. Not really sure why you are harping on the guy. Who cares about whether or not they are learning technically sound fundamentals ? It's about exposure, not dental training. It's more of a "cover your ass" activity, and to make sure it's for you before blowing 4 years in your prime of life.

+1

dennisDDS · Oct 21, 2008

Dental assisting is good in that you are getting exposed to the field.

But I feel adcoms do not care for it because you are being paid.

I believe when they ask for your volunteering hours, saying "Ive had 5000 hrs of dental exposure" does not have as much weight as saying "I volunteered for 2000hours.."

In that I feel it is a waste of money to pursue this route and would much rather take extra classes or shadow more specialized areas.. Ie. perio, Ortho.

Just my opinion.

PDizzle · Oct 21, 2008

doc toothache said:
Since you are convinced, there is not much of a point trying to dissuade you from your chosen path. Interestingly enough we are hard pressed to find schools that recommend dental assisting for those aspiring to pursue a career in dentistry. Even the recommended/required number of hours of shadowing are minimal. The technical aspects of dentistry, while important, rank as a distant third after diagnosis and treatment planning, something that is beyond the scope of dental assisting.

Well, assisting will actually help you IN dental school, for sure! In school, you don't have an assistant. You do all the stuff an assistant normally does in the real world: take impressions, create temporaries, put on rubber dam, etc. If you assist for a while, you will get good at this stuff, which is sometimes harder than it seems, especially making temps at the begining of your "hands training". We had a girl that was RDA for like 4 years or so and could knock out a 5 unit bridge temp in like 30 min! It helped her a lot!

I don't see a down side to being an assistant unless your GPA or DAT is low. (in that case, taking and acing sci classes would be the thing to do and/or DAT retake).

Lastly, I feel you would get the best exposure to the day to day life of a dentist by getting all up in someone's grill rather than just watching. That's just my opinion...but I'm not an adcom.

Enso · Oct 21, 2008

PDizzle said:
I don't see a down side to being an assistant unless your GPA or DAT is low. (in that case, taking and acing sci classes would be the thing to do and/or DAT retake).

My GPA from my Marketing degree is quite mediocre at 3.0, but I'm sitting around 3.6 science GPA and still need more pre-reqs before I take the DAT... you think I should just work on my GPA instead of assisting?

I thought maybe doing this would make my app different than others.

doc toothache · Oct 21, 2008

Sometimes it helps to repeat things since they may have been missed on the first go round. We are hard pressed to come up with a single occurrence where an applicant was advised to get more "dental assisting" experience to improve their application. While the marketability of a degree may vary widely, it does not say much for an applicant with lets say an electrical engineering degree that is unable or unwilling to find a position in the chosen field. In the off year it certainly would be more impressive to see someone with employment with Honeywell than with employment with Dr. Dentist as a dental assistant. Hey, but it is just an opinion that can be easily disregarded.

prydA · Oct 21, 2008

vberries said:
If you don't mind me asking, what were the schools that you got interviewed for and which DAT studied guides did you use to get those good scores? Thanks and congrats on all those interviews.

hi, this is my predents http://www.predents.com/?page=user&user_id=3290.

i used everything possible plus wikipedia :] and i also kept my own notebook of notes on areas i was weak on.. worked out really well. gluck!

PDizzle · Oct 21, 2008

Enso said:
My GPA from my Marketing degree is quite mediocre at 3.0, but I'm sitting around 3.6 science GPA and still need more pre-reqs before I take the DAT... you think I should just work on my GPA instead of assisting?

I thought maybe doing this would make my app different than others.

Without doubt, the key to getting into dental school is three part:
1) GPA
2) DAT
3) Apply early

The other stuff is important but def take a back seat to these three.

Its hard for me to answer your question without knowing all your details but if your gonna get a job anyway and the choice is dental assisting or working at Starbucks, that's a no brainer.

First and foremost, ace those pre-reqs and get your GPA up as high as possible. Crush the DAT and apply June 1st........welcome to dental school!🙂

Montserrat · Oct 21, 2008

doc toothache said:
Sometimes it helps to repeat things since they may have been missed on the first go round. We are hard pressed to come up with a single occurrence where an applicant was advised to get more "dental assisting" experience to improve their application. While the marketability of a degree may vary widely, it does not say much for an applicant with lets say an electrical engineering degree that is unable or unwilling to find a position in the chosen field. In the off year it certainly would be more impressive to see someone with employment with Honeywell than with employment with Dr. Dentist as a dental assistant. Hey, but it is just an opinion that can be easily disregarded.

Man - you are about as surly as I am.

One of the first few questions a clinically oriented school might tee off on is, "So, why dentistry ? What have you seen thus far ? Sure this is for you ?" A school like VCU will have interviewees assist (mostly suctioning from what I've heard). It's not dentistry, but it's about as close as you can get without being sued for practicing without licensure.

It's not a magic bullet for entry. It's what you gain from it, apply to your personal statement in a line or two, and bring it to your interview as a silent flag that reads "I R NOT AS NOOB 2 DENTISTRY THAN THESE DWEBES NEXT 2 ME !!!".

I guess the only question I'd ask you, is why you'd find that someone who wanted a change of profession would be better off continuing to work at their own trained profession than spend time learning as a dental assistant. For me anyway, more than the actual assisting, you get a feel for the pace, patient interaction, and general day schedule of the professional. Hard to get this while you are sitting at your day job pondering a career change, no ?

doc toothache · Oct 21, 2008

Montserrat said:
Man - you are about as surly as I am.

One of the first few questions a clinically oriented school might tee off on is, "So, why dentistry ? What have you seen thus far ? Sure this is for you ?" A school like VCU will have interviewees assist (mostly suctioning from what I've heard). It's not dentistry, but it's about as close as you can get without being sued for practicing without licensure.

It's not a magic bullet for entry. It's what you gain from it, apply to your personal statement in a line or two, and bring it to your interview as a silent flag that reads "I R NOT AS NOOB 2 DENTISTRY THAN THESE DWEBES NEXT 2 ME !!!".

I guess the only question I'd ask you, is why you'd find that someone who wanted a change of profession would be better off continuing to work at their own trained profession than spend time learning as a dental assistant. For me anyway, more than the actual assisting, you get a feel for the pace, patient interaction, and general day schedule of the professional. Hard to get this while you are sitting at your day job pondering a career change, no ?

A desired change to another profession, so to speak, may not be exactly be the prerogative of the individual at least in the case of professional schools, grad schools, etc. That is more in the realm of adcoms. Getting a feel for the profession, "the pace, patient interaction, and general day schedule of the professional" does not require one to work as a dental assistant. At best, a few weeks of shadowing should be more than ample time. Whether or not one "would be better off continuing to work at their own trained profession than spend time learning as a dental assistant", is a personal decision. However, after spending four years in a field and then dropping it like a hot potato might be cause for concern since after 4 years of ds the same person could easily decide that dentistry is not for them after all.

rewJW · Oct 21, 2008

I realize Doc Toothache isn't going to agree with me but I'm adding my two cents into the "whether or not to assist" conversation.

I was offered an assistant position at my dentist's office in March of this year and took it. I worked part time until I graduated in May and started working full time the first week of June. I had no previous experience other than shadowing, no RDA or CDA or assisting classes, no x-ray license, etc. I have learned a tremendous amount of information that I know will certainly help me in dental school and beyond. I don't get paid as well as I would have if I had chosen to get a job in industry/research for a year, but the experience is certainly worth it.

I have learned the name of the majority of instruments I'll encounter. I know what they are used for and why. I've been shown lots of little trade secrets that they won't teach you in dental school, like using caulking tape for border molding. I know when and why materials like IRM, dycal, zinc oxide, and vitrebond are used. I know a lot of anatomical landmarks on dental x-rays and can identify caries, abscesses, restorations, etc. And so on and so forth, I could go on for quite some time. These simple things are things I know already now and won't be new when I encounter them in dental school, so I can focus on other things which are unfamiliar to me.

Plus, I've made some excellent connections, and have secured myself a job as an associate after graduating dental school if I decide to hang around New Jersey.

So, I would say that regardless of if it helps you get into dental school, assisting can be a excellent experience.

Enso · Oct 22, 2008

rewJW said:
I realize Doc Toothache isn't going to agree with me but I'm adding my two cents into the "whether or not to assist" conversation.

I was offered an assistant position at my dentist's office in March of this year and took it. I worked part time until I graduated in May and started working full time the first week of June. I had no previous experience other than shadowing, no RDA or CDA or assisting classes, no x-ray license, etc. I have learned a tremendous amount of information that I know will certainly help me in dental school and beyond. I don't get paid as well as I would have if I had chosen to get a job in industry/research for a year, but the experience is certainly worth it.

I have learned the name of the majority of instruments I'll encounter. I know what they are used for and why. I've been shown lots of little trade secrets that they won't teach you in dental school, like using caulking tape for border molding. I know when and why materials like IRM, dycal, zinc oxide, and vitrebond are used. I know a lot of anatomical landmarks on dental x-rays and can identify caries, abscesses, restorations, etc. And so on and so forth, I could go on for quite some time. These simple things are things I know already now and won't be new when I encounter them in dental school, so I can focus on other things which are unfamiliar to me.

Plus, I've made some excellent connections, and have secured myself a job as an associate after graduating dental school if I decide to hang around New Jersey.

So, I would say that regardless of if it helps you get into dental school, assisting can be a excellent experience.

Excellent post. That pretty much sums up why assisting is such an attractive option: at least partial preparedness for dental school.

On another note, doc toothache, how am I "throwing away" my 4-year Marketing degree if I decide not to get a business related job? Marketing is such a diverse path and I can find excellent use for it if I ever own a private dental practice. Maybe I'd like a heads up for dental school by getting a dental related job? Bio majors that become dentists may not be the best businessmen and may not execute their practice's marketability to the precision of one with say... a Marketing degree.

artanis · Oct 22, 2008

Enso said:
Excellent post. That pretty much sums up why assisting is such an attractive option: at least partial preparedness for dental school.

On another note, doc toothache, how am I "throwing away" my 4-year Marketing degree if I decide not to get a business related job? Marketing is such a diverse path and I can find excellent use for it if I ever own a private dental practice. Maybe I'd like a heads up for dental school by getting a dental related job? Bio majors that become dentists may not be the best businessmen and may not execute their practice's marketability to the precision of one with say... a Marketing degree.

I can guarentee you, doc toothache is one of those kids that no one liked in high school.

predentn · Oct 22, 2008

rewJW said:
... I know a lot of anatomical landmarks on dental x-rays and can identify caries, abscesses, restorations, etc....

Throw that one out there doing the interview, I'm sure they'll get a good laugh out of it.

misstoothfairy · Oct 22, 2008

artanis said:
I can guarentee you, doc toothache is one of those kids that no one liked in high school.

Maybe he is just one of those oppositionist kids that has something to say about everything. Oh, but everyone hates those kids in their class anyway lol so I guess your right.

Enso · Oct 22, 2008

misstoothfairy said:
Maybe he is just one of those oppositionist kids that has something to say about everything. Oh, but everyone hates those kids in their class anyway lol so I guess your right.

In his defense he's posted a lot of useful stats on here about dental school. Although he's giving me a pretty big "that guy" vibe right now.

misstoothfairy · Oct 22, 2008

I love the stats. However useful/not useful. It gives people on this forum something to look at.

206127 · Oct 22, 2008

doc toothache said:
Since you are convinced, there is not much of a point trying to dissuade you from your chosen path. Interestingly enough we are hard pressed to find schools that recommend dental assisting for those aspiring to pursue a career in dentistry. Even the recommended/required number of hours of shadowing are minimal. The technical aspects of dentistry, while important, rank as a distant third after diagnosis and treatment planning, something that is beyond the scope of dental assisting.

The GPA/DAT requirement is quite minimal for most schools as well (2.5-3.0 and 17) not to mention the required courses. But look at the people that get in, all do far more then is "required". You went out of your way in all other areas, why wouldn't you go out of your way doing ECs as well??

doc toothache · Oct 22, 2008

artanis said:
I can guarentee you, doc toothache is one of those kids that no one liked in high school.

And from the looks of it, the "high school" experience might spill over into the forum.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is interesting to note that it is usually the applicants with stats below the mean who try to wow ds adcoms with their knowledge gained from "dental assisting", whereas the one with stats to die for are usually more concerned with gaining an advantage by immersing themselves in courses such as cell biology, histology, microbiology/immunology, biochemistry, physiology, dental and human anatomy.

chober · Oct 22, 2008

Stats can be EXTREMELY deceptive...

rewJW · Oct 22, 2008

predentn said:
Throw that one out there doing the interview, I'm sure they'll get a good laugh out of it.

It's not necessary to just be an ass for no reason.

rewJW · Oct 22, 2008

doc toothache said:
It is interesting to note that it is usually the applicants with stats below the mean who try to wow ds adcoms with their knowledge gained from "dental assisting", whereas the one with stats to die for are usually more concerned with gaining an advantage by immersing themselves in courses such as cell biology, histology, microbiology/immunology, biochemistry, physiology, dental and human anatomy.

Actually, my stats are average to above-average, depending on the school, and I have taken many of those courses you have listed. I am assisting now that I am out of school. I don't have to have the dental experience to wow adcoms; it is simply an added bonus.

Anyway, kudos to those who choose to assist and reap the benefits from such an experience. I'm not saying you have to assist because it 'looks good for dental school,' in fact that wasn't what I was saying at all. I am simply saying that the wealth of information I've learned and the hands on experience I've gotten will certainly be beneficial to me once I am in dental school.

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