Recent Salary Contracts

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presby

presby

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After reading some comments the residents have made about salaries and knowing what I know from experiencing the process myself, I'd like to know what the most recent residency grads have been truthfully offered and what practice situations they are entering. Let's hear it...
 
presby said:
After reading some comments the residents have made about salaries and knowing what I know from experiencing the process myself, I'd like to know what the most recent residency grads have been truthfully offered and what practice situations they are entering. Let's hear it...
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your status says you are an attending. Why dont you do the honors and start the first post and share your job/salary/etc info. 🙂
 
cool_vkb said:
your status says you are an attending. Why dont you do the honors and start the first post and share your job/salary/etc info. 🙂
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I've been in private practice on the East Coast as an associate for a year and a half now since finishing my residency. I had varied offers coming out and it came down to two. One was a position in the department of orthopaedics at a satellite hospital owned and operated by an ivy league institution making 130K plus a bonus based on RVUs and all benefits. Another surgical podiatrist and myself would be doing all the foot and ankle stuff as the other orthopods were not interested. This was a dream position except for the location - my family didn't want to live there and my wife couldn't transfer her job there. The other position was in a private practice in an area we liked with a low overhead present for 25 or so years with a salary of 80K plus 40% of collections above 200K and this is what I chose.
 
Out of all of my senior residents, only one has signed so far. One is going in with his father and I have no idea what the details are on that. The other two are still weighing options but have had offers in the mid 100's. The only one to sign (as I posted somewhere else) signed for 175K and a 25K signing bonus (ortho group).
 
jonwill said:
Out of all of my senior residents, only one has signed so far. One is going in with his father and I have no idea what the details are on that. The other two are still weighing options but have had offers in the mid 100's. The only one to sign (as I posted somewhere else) signed for 175K and a 25K signing bonus (ortho group).
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wow, beautiful figures for starting. That really motivates me to go to the direction of podiatry. However, reading about some misrable dpms complaining about their income, and hearing about not having enough residency spots for podiatry graduates is a turn off. Frankly, the last thing I want to worry about after spending all my youth in school is earning leaving.

sorry for dragging the thread a little of topic, and thank you guys for sharing the expected awsome financial outcome.:xf:
 
And of course, tracheadoc still has most here thinking the sign on is less than the greeter makes at your local Walmart. 🙄
 
Have I made a comment denigrating podiatry income?
I'm not aware of it.
Podiatry will have some who do phenomenally well, the herd who do average, and a fringe who stuggle.
I posted on another thread that the median income is probably around 120k. Obviously if you come out of the best surgical program and sign on with an ortho/medical group the resources will be great. If you do a lousy program and become an associate you may not do so well.
What do you think Gymman? You post here, but only derisively, I'm sure your personality will be a great asset to your practice.
 
tracheatoedoc said:
Have I made a comment denigrating podiatry income?
I'm not aware of it.
Podiatry will have some who do phenomenally well, the herd who do average, and a fringe who stuggle.
I posted on another thread that the median income is probably around 120k. Obviously if you come out of the best surgical program and sign on with an ortho/medical group the resources will be great. If you do a lousy program and become an associate you may not do so well.
What do you think Gymman? You post here, but only derisively, I'm sure your personality will be a great asset to your practice.
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Yea, I think that is a pretty fair guess. Your first year out, you should plan to make low to mid 100's. But as you said, if you do a lousy program (which are in the minority but still exist), don't count on doing so hot.
 
Can you clarify on what a "lousy" program is? I mean now I'd say about 66% are PM&S 36, and 33% are PM&S 24, and less than one percent are what's left of 1 yr residencies. Are you talking about the 1yr programs? or Are certain PM&S 24 or 36 programs lousy?
 
Yeah, and could you clarify what "derisively" means for GymMan? I'm worried he won't be able to respond with yet another one of his completely pointless posts 😕
 
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@jonwill:

the one resident in your program who signed at 175 plus bonus 25, could you be a bit more specific, if you can, i understand there is some confidentiality issues to deal with.
What is the deal with respect to collections and getting a percentage of that amount. For example 175 base, plus 40% of anything over 300?
Also what is the schedule like? work everyday 9am-5pm or extended hours? What is the call and weekend schedule like? And lastly how many weeks vacation and CME?
thanks in advance.🙂
 
JackedUp said:
Can you clarify on what a "lousy" program is? I mean now I'd say about 66% are PM&S 36, and 33% are PM&S 24, and less than one percent are what's left of 1 yr residencies. Are you talking about the 1yr programs? or Are certain PM&S 24 or 36 programs lousy?
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I guess the term "lousy" is in the eye of the beholder. The biggest issue I see is probably with fudging numbers. For instance, 3 residents scrub a case and all take C's. There are still programs out their where this happens.

When visiting a program, pay attention. Are multiple residents scrubbing a bunion or hammertoe? It's another thing if a few residents are scrubbing a pilon fracture or a flatfoot recon where a lot of hands are sometimes needed. How many cases are residents doing a week? If you see a lot of sitting around, double/triple scrubbing, and going home early, these are generally bad signs. Ask to see numbers. If the numbers don't add up to what you're seeing, something is probably up.
 
dtrack22 said:
Yeah, and could you clarify what "derisively" means for GymMan? I'm worried he won't be able to respond with yet another one of his completely pointless posts 😕
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Should I really dignify this by replying? Hey let me let you in on a 'lil secret Einstein. I'm not sure if you're trying to instigate or just acting stupid here but your comments toward me have no basis & are evident to most, if not to yourself. Unless you've got a personal beef with me I'd appreciate you keeping your smarta** comments to yourself. I'm being cool with you, need we continue this crap? Hopefully not. Issue resolved on my part unless you want to take it up further by wasting your time berating me, behind the back, with snide-a** remarks such as this aforementioned quote.
 
Can't we all just be friends 🙂 There really is no need for the fuss, anyways I think Caribbean med schools are awful because they have low matching with US residencies...and they don't prepare you for your boards...nuff said-im not going to throw away tuition money like that!
 
presby said:
After reading some comments the residents have made about salaries and knowing what I know from experiencing the process myself, I'd like to know what the most recent residency grads have been truthfully offered and what practice situations they are entering. Let's hear it...
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Because of my contract, I am not allowed to share with the public the details of my contract. I have an income guarantee contract with a hospital when I joined a Podiatry group that has privileges at the hospital. The contract included a base salary with incentive bonus along with the usual benefits. I was also able to get part of my student loans paid off each year I work under the income guarantee contract. The nice thing about the income guarantee contract is that it does not permit any restrictive convenants with the existing Podiatry group.
 
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DPMgrad-

I understand your need to not disclose details of your contract. But, for those of us who will be potentially evaluating different offers down the road what is the normal amount one could expect for repayment of school loans by a practice?

Also..how is a buy-in amount typically calculated for associates?
 
Dmayor22 said:
Also..how is a buy-in amount typically calculated for associates?
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  1. (Perceived worth of practice x 2) + hefty retirement buyout = asking price
  2. (Actual worth of practice) 0.5 = counteroffer
  3. Owner parts out practice as Associate looks for new place to live = settlement
 
Dmayor22 said:
DPMgrad-

I understand your need to not disclose details of your contract. But, for those of us who will be potentially evaluating different offers down the road what is the normal amount one could expect for repayment of school loans by a practice?

Also..how is a buy-in amount typically calculated for associates?
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NatCh did a great job in answering about the assessing appropriate buy in price.

As for repayment of student loans, I have not seen it as being very common amongst my friends and classmates. I was lucky in that it came with my income guarantee contract with the hospital since they were doing something similar for other MD specialties that the hospital was hiring through the income guarantee contract.

As a mentor told me once, it never hurts to ask. The worse they can say is no.
 
Regarding repayment of student loans: it may be more beneficial to take that money as income instead and pay the student loans yourself. You may be able to write off the student loan interest. I haven't been able to write off anything for years though, thanks to the Alternative Minimum Tax.

It might be worthwhile to consult an accountant before you sign any contract.
 
NatCh said:
Regarding repayment of student loans: it may be more beneficial to take that money as income instead and pay the student loans yourself. You may be able to write off the student loan interest. I haven't been able to write off anything for years though, thanks to the Alternative Minimum Tax.

It might be worthwhile to consult an accountant before you sign any contract.
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Good point. However, the hospital only pays back a percentage of my student loans each year under my contract. Hence, I still accrue interest on my student loans and can still write of student loan interest.

However, as my accountant pointed out, once my income exceeded a certain amount, I can no longer write off my student loans.
 
dpmgrad said:
Good point. However, the hospital only pays back a percentage of my student loans each year under my contract. Hence, I still accrue interest on my student loans and can still write of student loan interest.

However, as my accountant pointed out, once my income exceeded a certain amount, I can no longer write off my student loans.
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write off as in never pay or get back as a return? what about the rest of the loans?
 
thetachi--this is not a personal attack. i repeat, not a personal attack. this is not where this thread needs to go. ask your parents or look up online how the tax code works in regards to tax deductions/credits etc.. it will be helpful in planning for your future, both in regards to running a practice as well as your own financial planning. a morale of the story is "one of the best investments you can make is a good, trusted accountant."

on second thought, starting a new thread with this topic (repayment of student loans and writeoffs) might not be a bad idea. all yours.
 
air bud said:
thetachi--this is not a personal attack. i repeat, not a personal attack. this is not where this thread needs to go. ask your parents or look up online how the tax code works in regards to tax deductions/credits etc.. it will be helpful in planning for your future, both in regards to running a practice as well as your own financial planning. a morale of the story is "one of the best investments you can make is a good, trusted accountant."

on second thought, starting a new thread with this topic (repayment of student loans and writeoffs) might not be a bad idea. all yours.
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this can't be, are you being friendly towards me? is it 2012, just kidding well nice to get a dialogue and I agree this is not where the thread is meant to go. I appreciate your advice and I have a few business major friends that probably know a LITTLE about the subject and beyond that I think I should get to Oakland first before I start thinking about how to spend my money on investments.
 
I suppose repayment of loans and write-off does pertain to some degree to this thread...
 
yeah I am interested in this topic aswell, as a pre-podiatry student the whole recent salary signing is mostly a mystery to me.
 
how about all of us prepods worry about finishing school, and then finishing residency before worrying about signing contracts. I would expect contract stuff to change multiple times before we are in this situation
 
air bud said:
how about all of us prepods worry about finishing school, and then finishing residency before worrying about signing contracts. I would expect contract stuff to change multiple times before we are in this situation
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plus one
 
air bud said:
how about all of us prepods worry about finishing school, and then finishing residency before worrying about signing contracts. I would expect contract stuff to change multiple times before we are in this situation
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This is really the right attitude. There are certainly a lot of hurdles between being a pre-pod and signing a contract, and some % of people will get filtered out or quit at almost every step of the way. I've seen it happen already as a student, and I'm sure the residents, attendings have too...

-starting school
-basic sciences
-pt1 boards
-clinical sciences
-pt2 boards
-graduating
-getting good residency
-pt3 boards
-finishing residency
-passing ABPS exams
-keeping license in good status and avoiding malpractice/fraud/etc

As you see, saying "I'll graduate near the top of my class, complete a top residency, and get good job offers" is a lot easier said than done. There is no reason you shouldn't strive for that, but you should go into podiatry because you like what you've seen during shadowing and are interested in the career, the patients, the pathology, the lifestyle, etc. Income is always a concern, but it has to be secondary when you are choosing a lifelong profession.
 
air bud said:
how about all of us prepods worry about finishing school, and then finishing residency before worrying about signing contracts. I would expect contract stuff to change multiple times before we are in this situation
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👍Well yeah may be not about salaries. But i strongly urge all prepods to activetely research the situation on Residencies. the class of 2009 was lucky and they had more residency slots then there were applicants (thats what i heard from some seniors).

but from class of 2010, there is going to be problems becuase number of applicants is greater than the available spots. Iam not gonna say the numbers because according to authorities they keep on changing (as the minute we speak) because new programs are opening.

However i have yet to see an official proof of paper or something which says , okie in 2009 this this this spots opened.

Sure, we all should work hard, be competitive, blah, blah but to enter school with knowledge that there will be some of you who will not match is really scary. What if each and every student in your class decides to be A+ student and no one drops out or is extra competitive. then that will mean some good students will not match! I dont think its fair for students. This is not some survival show. we all entered pod school and there should be residency spots for each applicant they accept. ever wondered how are you gonna pay the huge debt if you dont get a residency?

Ofcourse this hasnt happen yet and this is merely a speculation. but there is buzzz about this and people expect to see it happening from class of 2010. and i havent seen any paper yet that says or points out the things done by the authorities to address this issue. Its about time we get some proof that progress is being done with hard facts. may be list of programs which opened or positions added in existing
programs.

the standard dialouge is "they are actively involved in talking to programs,etc etc." but they never release a report consisting of hard facts or names of programs which actively opened.

You guys sure gotta worry about this thing. Research about this issue. contact the schools,etc .
 
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cool_vkb said:
👍Well yeah may be not about salaries. But i strongly urge all prepods to activetely research the situation on Residencies. the class of 2009 was lucky and they had more residency slots then there were applicants (thats what i heard from some seniors).

but from class of 2010, there is going to be problems becuase number of applicants is greater than the available spots. Iam not gonna say the numbers because according to authorities they keep on changing (as the minute we speak) because new programs are opening.

However i have yet to see an official proof of paper or something which says , okie in 2009 this this this spots opened.

Sure, we all should work hard, be competitive, blah, blah but to enter school with knowledge that there will be some of you who will not match is really scary. What if each and every student in your class decides to be A+ student and no one drops out or is extra competitive. then that will mean some good students will not match! I dont think its fair for students. This is not some survival show. we all entered pod school and there should be residency spots for each applicant they accept. ever wondered how are you gonna pay the huge debt if you dont get a residency?

Ofcourse this hasnt happen yet and this is merely a speculation. but there is buzzz about this and people expect to see it happening from class of 2010. and i havent seen any paper yet that says or points out the things done by the authorities to address this issue. Its about time we get some proof that progress is being done with hard facts. may be list of programs which opened or positions added in existing
programs.

the standard dialouge is "they are actively involved in talking to programs,etc etc." but they never release a report consisting of hard facts or names of programs which actively opened.

You guys sure gotta worry about this thing. Research about this issue. contact the schools,etc .
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1. Not everyone in your class at pod school has the brains or the willpower to get a 4.0. Be competitive, a nice guy, and develope your clinical skills, and read articles all the time. Get to know the people at places you want to be a resident.
2. The residency shortage will if anything get worse or only slightly better. Things will be extremely competitive. Do not lie to yourself.
3. It is in your best interest to be at the top your class, published, and well connected to get a top program. Do not rely on grades to get you a good residency.
4. The vision 2115 crap is the stuff that has largely created the problem because you have a bunch of people who're lazy and think that things should be given to them because they're "doctors" along with a serious inferiority complex. Podiatry is great, but you gotta work hard and pay your dues. The shortage of residencies comes from the APMA telling COTH to phase out PMS 24s and convert them to PMS 36's. The ones that can't convert are left to close, which is what has largely created the residency shortfall. Don't believe the line of bull that they're feeding us at school. They don't even know what's going on.

5. This shortage is absolutely not fair. It is a complete lack of planning and foresight cause by inept, incompetent, and lazy people responsible for the direction of our profession. We should not have an additional pod school opening up. There are likely too many as it is now. You will have to make your own luck. The old dumb boys see the new school, lack of residencies slots as a good thing because it will increase competition leading to an increase in very capable individuals who enter the profession at the end of school and residency. This will only detract people from entering podiatry. I am only a first year, and after speaking with the new head of the APMA regarding this issue I am convinced they truly don't care about the current podiatry students success. I wish all my fellow competitors and myself luck in finishing this process successfully.
 
iceman69 said:
1. Not everyone in your class at pod school has the brains or the willpower to get a 4.0. Be competitive, a nice guy, and develope your clinical skills, and read articles all the time. Get to know the people at places you want to be a resident.

3. It is in your best interest to be at the top your class, published, and well connected to get a top program. Do not rely on grades to get you a good residency.
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easier said than done, i suppose there isn't any way to get into contact with a student/students that has/have already acheieved "top of class, published, well connected" that pre pods or 1st years could talk to?

ps- I wonder if one has 1+ pubs BEFORE podiatry school if that would be cared about at all if they aren't podiatry related?...hmmm
 
ThetaChiNAU1856 said:
easier said than done, i suppose there isn't any way to get into contact with a student/students that has/have already acheieved "top of class, published, well connected" that pre pods or 1st years could talk to?

ps- I wonder if one has 1+ pubs BEFORE podiatry school if that would be cared about at all if they aren't podiatry related?...hmmm
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As with everything on this forum, these are my opinions, which to you are anonymous. Take them with a grain of salt. I highly doubt a residency director is going to care if you're published in something that does not relate to podiatry. Those things are easier said than done, but they are things you want to do. Being successful is hard.
 
What absolutely blows my mind is that another school is opening its doors next year. Like 40-60 new residencies are gonna open between now and 2013, im sure.

guess the rest of us 2012'ers should thank our lucky stars its only gonna be as bad as its gonna be pre-2013.
 
G0dFather said:
wheres the new skool gonna open??
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Western University in Pomona, California. It's part of a healthcare university with DO, DVM, etc. The dean is a hugename in podiatric wound care and was head of the pod department at UT-San Antonio. I think If they were gonna open a new school (no matter what), this is definitely the right idea. Much better idea than opening a free standing pod school.
 
iceman69 said:
1. Not everyone in your class at pod school has the brains or the willpower to get a 4.0. Be competitive, a nice guy, and develope your clinical skills, and read articles all the time. Get to know the people at places you want to be a resident.
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My post is not directed towards you as are a student like me and in the same boat. but boss! iam tired of this same old story being repeated whenever i ask someone this problem. why the bloody hell should the burden of finding residency spot fall on me.Iam not saying we all should be guaranteed high end super duper residencies but every student should get residency if he/she graduates.Why cant we have a system where number of entering students = number of residency slots available.

This whole system of be good, do this and that shud not be used to judge a candidate and let the other person not get residnecy. If Mr.XYZ graduates from a school than he should have 1 residency spot available.

This is my idea , godforbid a certain student doesnt match. then school should give the option to the student to graduate or postpone his graduation for another year. atleast he wil get $1800 monthly expenses for another year and spend time in clinics/rotating/etc. yeah it will be an additional loan but still it will be some support. better than roaming on streets or doing some odd job.

There should be competition, but competition should be in getting a residency spot at a famous residnecy or location but not a competition in which the loser doesnt gets residency at all. that is devastating.
 
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cool_vkb said:
My post is not directed towards you as are a student like me and in the same boat. but boss! iam tired of this same old story being repeated whenever i ask someone this problem. why the bloody hell should the burden of finding residency spot fall on me.Iam not saying we all should be guaranteed high end super duper residencies but every student should get residency if he/she graduates.Why cant we have a system where number of entering students = number of residency slots available.

This whole system of be good, do this and that shud not be used to judge a candidate and let the other person not get residnecy. If Mr.XYZ graduates from a school than he should have 1 residency spot available.

This is my idea , godforbid a certain student doesnt match. then school should give the option to the student to graduate or postpone his graduation for another year. atleast he wil get $1800 monthly expenses for another year and spend time in clinics/rotating/etc. yeah it will be an additional loan but still it will be some support. better than roaming on streets or doing some odd job.

There should be competition, but competition should be in getting a residency spot at a famous residnecy or location but not a competition in which the loser doesnt gets residency at all. that is devastating.
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I completely agree with you. Alas, that's just not how it works in podiatry right now. I hope this will change in the future. A lot of this stems from the fact that podiatry schools are inherently profit driven and see us students as pay checks. It sucks, but what I have previously said I believe to be the facts of the residency situation. All you can do is work with what you know and use it to create opportunities for yourself. If you don't believe what I have said try getting a straight answer out of one of those APMA ****s or the administrators at your school.
 
I've been a member of the APMA for over 20 years and it's very frustrating. When I graduated, only about 45% of my class obtained a residency and some of my classmates that did not get a program were brilliant. They were much brighter than some kids that are now getting PS&R 36 programs today.

And I can state that honestly, since I've been involved with residency training AND I've been an examiner for the ABPS certification exam.

It's amazing that after 20 years, there still aren't enough positions for all graduates and they are still opening additional schools. Yes, these schools are tuition driven, and the class size is getting smaller. My entering class was about 150, and we graduated about 130. Now class size is around 80 plus or minus, so why do we need any more schools???? Why not maximize our current colleges?

Additionally, I served on a committee regarding residencies and I know of several programs that were shut down due to deficiencies. Their balls were busted BIG TIME. These were decent programs, that could have and should have been save/redeemed by simply replacing the residency director, etc. These programs needed a little guidance to be put back on track and they could have easily been turned around to PS&R 36 programs in a year or two. Instead, their balls were busted and the programs SHUT DOWN.

As a result, all those positions were lost to graduating students. So, instead of the APMA attempting to fix present problems, they shut down programs that could have been fixed.

At the same time, they allow MORE schools to open which naturally compounds the problem. So, I scratch my head and attempt to figure out the rationale behind the APMA's decisions, which seem inconsistent at best.

Keep working hard, perform your best and hopefully there will be enough programs for you to land a decent residency. At least there are certainly a LOT more programs available now than there were when I graduated.

I was lucky, but a lot of my classmates who were very qualified got shut out, and never had the opportunity to match with a residency. Hopefully those days will not repeat in the future and our leadership will make this a problem of the past.
 
PADPM said:
I've been a member of the APMA for over 20 years and it's very frustrating. When I graduated, only about 45% of my class obtained a residency and some of my classmates that did not get a program were brilliant. They were much brighter than some kids that are now getting PS&R 36 programs today.

And I can state that honestly, since I've been involved with residency training AND I've been an examiner for the ABPS certification exam.

It's amazing that after 20 years, there still aren't enough positions for all graduates and they are still opening additional schools. Yes, these schools are tuition driven, and the class size is getting smaller. My entering class was about 150, and we graduated about 130. Now class size is around 80 plus or minus, so why do we need any more schools???? Why not maximize our current colleges?

Additionally, I served on a committee regarding residencies and I know of several programs that were shut down due to deficiencies. Their balls were busted BIG TIME. These were decent programs, that could have and should have been save/redeemed by simply replacing the residency director, etc. These programs needed a little guidance to be put back on track and they could have easily been turned around to PS&R 36 programs in a year or two. Instead, their balls were busted and the programs SHUT DOWN.

As a result, all those positions were lost to graduating students. So, instead of the APMA attempting to fix present problems, they shut down programs that could have been fixed.

At the same time, they allow MORE schools to open which naturally compounds the problem. So, I scratch my head and attempt to figure out the rationale behind the APMA's decisions, which seem inconsistent at best.

Keep working hard, perform your best and hopefully there will be enough programs for you to land a decent residency. At least there are certainly a LOT more programs available now than there were when I graduated.

I was lucky, but a lot of my classmates who were very qualified got shut out, and never had the opportunity to match with a residency. Hopefully those days will not repeat in the future and our leadership will make this a problem of the past.
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Thanks for your honesty. I truly believe there is a huge disconnect between the guys who're out there in the real world working hard as successful practicing podiatrists and the APMA and faculty at schools.
 
PADPM said:
I've been a member of the APMA for over 20 years and it's very frustrating. When I graduated, only about 45% of my class obtained a residency and some of my classmates that did not get a program were brilliant. They were much brighter than some kids that are now getting PS&R 36 programs today.

And I can state that honestly, since I've been involved with residency training AND I've been an examiner for the ABPS certification exam.

It's amazing that after 20 years, there still aren't enough positions for all graduates and they are still opening additional schools. Yes, these schools are tuition driven, and the class size is getting smaller. My entering class was about 150, and we graduated about 130. Now class size is around 80 plus or minus, so why do we need any more schools???? Why not maximize our current colleges?

Additionally, I served on a committee regarding residencies and I know of several programs that were shut down due to deficiencies. Their balls were busted BIG TIME. These were decent programs, that could have and should have been save/redeemed by simply replacing the residency director, etc. These programs needed a little guidance to be put back on track and they could have easily been turned around to PS&R 36 programs in a year or two. Instead, their balls were busted and the programs SHUT DOWN.

As a result, all those positions were lost to graduating students. So, instead of the APMA attempting to fix present problems, they shut down programs that could have been fixed.

At the same time, they allow MORE schools to open which naturally compounds the problem. So, I scratch my head and attempt to figure out the rationale behind the APMA's decisions, which seem inconsistent at best.

Keep working hard, perform your best and hopefully there will be enough programs for you to land a decent residency. At least there are certainly a LOT more programs available now than there were when I graduated.

I was lucky, but a lot of my classmates who were very qualified got shut out, and never had the opportunity to match with a residency . Hopefully those days will not repeat in the future and our leadership will make this a problem of the past.
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i agree with everything you said... but, over 20 years ago...residency training for DPMs was not required (49/50 require residency now). though it must have been disappointing for some of your classmates not to get residencies, it would not end their career and cause them to loose 200k as it does today.

the APMA has created an environment in which our mandatory minimum training has increased, which is great... but as you said, it has caused the number of training programs that are 'up to snuff' to dwindle. their efforts were too focused on attaining parity with MD's, and they let their students down. great job ross taubman...
 
You are correct, but not having a residency for graduates back then still had a significant economic impact. I lived in NJ, one of the only states at the time that did require a residency to practice, so I once again was "lucky".

However, for those that did not match, there were strong economic and practice issues. How were they going to perform surgery with no "formal" training? How would they obtain positions with another practice with no "formal" residency training? How could they obtain any hospital affiliations or privileges in the future with no residency training?

Many had to scramble to do preceptorships. Some of these were invaluable learning experiences that ended up being better than residencies, and some of these were basically slave labor. If you were lucky, you did a preceptorship with a skilled surgeon, and than that doctor had enough "clout" to get you on staff at that hospital and you eventually developed your own surgical skills, cases and learned through the school of hard knocks.

It wasn't easy, but I know a lot of ABPS certified quality surgeons that were trained this way out of necessity. On the other hand, there are a lot of my classmates that may have been excellent surgeons but never got that opportunity, despite their academic achievements....and that's a true tragedy.

Although not all DPM's were meant to be surgeons, I believe that each graduate should at least be given the opportunity. The schools and the APMA have the RESPONSIBILITY to match class size with the amount of quality residency positions available. That should be priority number ONE.
 
There are nine students nationally that wont get a program this year.
 
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