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The information was in the letter they sent me with my match results.
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discusdan said:
I think the class of 2011 is even worse off.
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Hopefully, the people in charge will do something by then. If you want to play that game the class of 2012 will be even worse and the class of 2013 will be royally screwed.
 
The schools and the APMA have the RESPONSIBILITY to match class size with the amount of quality residency positions available. That should be priority number ONE.[/QUOTE]

Well said, I normally don't post in the podiatrist area since I'm a student, but I couldn't resist on this one.
 
discusdan said:
I think the class of 2011 is even worse off.
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:( i will be graduating in 2011.

i love podiatry and its branches but iam sick of these side distractions. I wish i had done more research about these side things like residency shortage, the time it takes to bcom board certified, and other minor administrative aspects. Podiatry as such is an awesome field and i loove it.

i feel it was my job to do enough research abt this residency situation before starting school. Well anyways now i cant do anything apart from working hard and praying god that not everyone in my class decides be in top 10%:).

Its a very big risk for the class of 2011 considering the amount of loan and hardwork we put in for 4yrs. there will be nearly 80-90 students not matching in 2011. (this is what i heard. if someone has new numbers please upload them).

But prepods, please dont ignore this issue and pretend nothing is happening. thanks to SDN you guys are now aware of this issue and you guys owe to yourself to research/question/decide what you wanna do considering all these facts/issues that are being discussed here.
 
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cool_vkb said:
Its a very big risk for the class of 2011 considering the amount of loan and hardwork we put in for 4yrs. there will be nearly 80-90 students not matching in 2011. (this is what i heard. if someone has new numbers please upload them).
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If that's true, then where does that put the class of 2013 with the Western U. grads? 150-160 students without residency?
 
PodunkUDPM said:
If that's true, then where does that put the class of 2013 with the Western U. grads? 150-160 students without residency?
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CSPM is increasing its class size for the 2013's too. I think it's like 10 students or so but thats a lot when you only have 40 people in a class. I don't see the need at all, just more Bullsh*t to add to the residency shortage. Obviously this pod school is not helping the situation, just adding to it.

I wonder if they are doing it because of SMU losing cash or just wanting to make more money. CCPM (former name) used to be located in actual san francisco, but they had to sell the campus, and move two times. They were actually part of Touro University's osteopathic med school for a little bit before settling down in oakland. This happened in early 2000s and supposedly due to ****ty finances. My interviewers told me that CSPM was the most stable financially that its been in years and I had nothing to worry about. This was in the Fall, before everything became a clusterfu*k.
 
dont forget the problems only gonna conpound on itself as people not matching one year will attempt the following year. And so on and so on. Not only will 2013 have more students than spots AND 50 new western U grads, but theyll also be competiting with everyone from 2011/2012 who didnt make the cut.

whata terrible situation.

:(:(:(:(
 
UW66 said:
dont forget the problems only gonna conpound on itself as people not matching one year will attempt the following year. And so on and so on. Not only will 2013 have more students than spots AND 50 new western U grads, but theyll also be competiting with everyone from 2011/2012 who didnt make the cut.

whata terrible situation.

:(:(:(:(
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In MD world there are so many vacant spots that even an international med grad with bare minimum qualifications can get residency in Primary care. (trust me i had two cousins matched for FM and IM this yr with lowest of lowerst scores and zero US experience) . you might say primary care but we are surgeons. well atleast they got residnecy in something. so by that standard, an american MD/DO student graduating even the last rank will get some residency and will be settled.

DDS guys can practice right after graduation and those who are interested can go further for residency. but its not the end for them if they dnt match.

and here we are..... our situation is really worse. atleast back in 1970s they cud open pratcice and just chip nails and cut corns/calluses and make some money. now, if we dnt match we cant even get license. :(
 
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UW66 said:
dont forget the problems only gonna conpound on itself as people not matching one year will attempt the following year. And so on and so on. Not only will 2013 have more students than spots AND 50 new western U grads, but theyll also be competiting with everyone from 2011/2012 who didnt make the cut.

whata terrible situation.

:(:(:(:(
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Hmmm.. I guess if you are unsured, you can always get into some other field.

I know some people are thinking about switching career paths. It's not a bad idea, if you ask me.
 
zmeflyby said:
Hmmm.. I guess if you are unsured, you can always get into some other field.

I know some people are thinking about switching career paths. It's not a bad idea, if you ask me.
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You don't seem as pumped about the Barry match list as some other people... Can you shed any light on the situation?
 
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It seems as though this thread is getting a little out of control. First of all of these numbers that you guys are throwing out are somewhat arbitrary. The shortage for the classes of 2011 and 2012 that you guys are mentioning is coming from the number of students per class and the number of residencies available, when the sheer fact is that not all students that enter podiatric medical school graduate.

At every step of the way people are lost. For example a i know of a few people that left our class, due to family reasons, going to MD/DO/DDS school, couldn't handle it or whatever. I'm sure the same goes for all of the schools across the country. And based on the data at the AACPM website many students are lost nationally from P1 year to P2 year and so on.

Also according to NBPME reports:
(http://www.nbpme.info/PDFs/spring2008.pdf).

It is pretty clear that approximately 20% of people that take the boards part I and II simply do not pass, thus eliminating another chunk.

All of that having been said there may still be a shortage but hopefully not as horrible as we are thinking here. I am also confident in the opening of new residency programs soon. Dr. Garoufalis who serves on the board of trustees for the APMA told our class that strides were defenitely being made to help the situation.

In the meantime study and work hard and think about the things that you can control.
 
JackedUp said:
It seems as though this thread is getting a little out of control. First of all of these numbers that you guys are throwing out are somewhat arbitrary. The shortage for the classes of 2011 and 2012 that you guys are mentioning is coming from the number of students per class and the number of residencies available, when the sheer fact is that not all students that enter podiatric medical school graduate.

At every step of the way people are lost. For example a i know of a few people that left our class, due to family reasons, going to MD/DO/DDS school, couldn't handle it or whatever. I'm sure the same goes for all of the schools across the country. And based on the data at the AACPM website many students are lost nationally from P1 year to P2 year and so on.

Also according to NBPME reports:
(http://www.nbpme.info/PDFs/spring2008.pdf).

It is pretty clear that approximately 20% of people that take the boards part I and II simply do not pass, thus eliminating another chunk.

All of that having been said there may still be a shortage but hopefully not as horrible as we are thinking here. I am also confident in the opening of new residency programs soon. Dr. Garoufalis who serves on the board of trustees for the APMA told our class that strides were defenitely being made to help the situation.

In the meantime study and work hard and think about the things that you can control.
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So you want to bet $200K loan + 4yrs of intense hardwork on the hope that not all geniuses of class of 2011 will graduate or pass boards and we will have enough spots. that is a speculation and a trend based from past experiences :confused: aweosme! so if by chance a miracle happens 99% of class of 2011 graduates. then what will you do?

This is not some gamble or stock market where we should sit and speculate or follow a trend from earlier years. this situation should be solved expecting 100% graduation rate. there shoudnt be a margin of error especially when we have loans and yrs invested.
 
JackedUp said:
It seems as though this thread is getting a little out of control. First of all of these numbers that you guys are throwing out are somewhat arbitrary. The shortage for the classes of 2011 and 2012 that you guys are mentioning is coming from the number of students per class and the number of residencies available, when the sheer fact is that not all students that enter podiatric medical school graduate.

At every step of the way people are lost. For example a i know of a few people that left our class, due to family reasons, going to MD/DO/DDS school, couldn't handle it or whatever. I'm sure the same goes for all of the schools across the country. And based on the data at the AACPM website many students are lost nationally from P1 year to P2 year and so on...I am also confident in the opening of new residency programs soon. Dr. Garoufalis who serves on the board of trustees for the APMA told our class that strides were defenitely being made to help the situation.

In the meantime study and work hard and think about the things that you can control.
Click to expand...


I agree with most of what you have stated. However, there is not going to be enough students lost nationally to mitigate the residency shortage. The schools need students to get tution money to pay their bills. Irregardless, there will be a shortage. I truly don't believe a word Dr. Garoufalis says. Just because he says something is being done does not really mean it is; has he actually told you how many slots his committe has mananged to create? At most you can hope to see probably 30-50 slots created by the 2012 year. In short, if you have a brain you may want to leave podiatry before the musical chairs begins.
 
PodunkUDPM said:
You don't seem as pumped about the Barry match list as some other people... Can you shed any light on the situation?
Click to expand...

I was very impressed with the match list. I am just worried about the residency shortage.
 
I'm not saying that everything is fine and not to worry about it, and I didn't say I was willing to bet 200K on speculation, and i'm not trying to convince others to do so. I also know this is complete irresponsibility on behalf of the regulators of podiatry, and you're right that the solution should be based on a 100% graduation rate. I was just merely pointing out some trends over the past couple years.
 
cool_vkb said:
In MD world there are so many vacant spots that even an international med grad with bare minimum qualifications can get residency in Primary care. (trust me i had two cousins matched for FM and IM this yr with lowest of lowerst scores and zero US experience) . you might say primary care but we are surgeons. well atleast they got residnecy in something. so by that standard, an american MD/DO student graduating even the last rank will get some residency and will be settled.
Click to expand...

Well.....not exactly, check out this recent Allo-thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=613083
 
hyperpodia said:
According to this
about 1/2 of the "international medical grads" did not match had to scramble
Are there stats for how many Pod students have to scramble?
Click to expand...

Thats the standard every year. but according to the data IMG is classiffied as anybody who has MD degree from a foreign school. so you could be in africa or asia or anywhere and just pay your fees and submit usmle scores and you can participate in the match. so yeah definetly those people will not get ivs or later get match or scramble.

Iam just saying what iam seeing around me. i have a lot of family who did MD thru foreign route, gave step1-2 and did their clinical electives in Chicago/NY and gained US clinical expeirence and LORs. they all matched in primary care.

the very fact that IMGs can match in US residencies proves that there are enough spots for AMGs and IMGs. that means residencies are in excess than the number of US medical students graduating! can you say the same about podiatry?
 
cool_vkb said:
the very fact that IMGs can match in US residencies proves that there are enough spots for AMGs and IMGs
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No, it means that our medical education system is flawed...much like many of our humanitarian efforts. Why do we give out over $800 billion that we don't have every year? Why do we give international students ortho and plastic residencies when we have US citizens who are equally qualified? See, same question...neither has an answer.
 
dtrack22 said:
Why do we give international students ortho and plastic residencies when we have US citizens who are equally qualified? See, same question...neither has an answer.
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This isn't very common. US seniors fill around 96% of the ortho spots (altough it was 92% this year) and 98% for plastics every year. Internationals getting into ortho or plastics prob score in the 99.99th percentile on the USMLEs, have flabbergasting research experience or are already world renowned from abroad.
 
8% is too many...4% is too many...I can live with a couple % as long as they actually are "world renowned". Don't use such strong verbiage if you have absolutely no way to back it up. Why do you post on the Pod forums anyways?
 
dtrack22 said:
No, it means that our medical education system is flawed...much like many of our humanitarian efforts. Why do we give out over $800 billion that we don't have every year? Why do we give international students ortho and plastic residencies when we have US citizens who are equally qualified? See, same question...neither has an answer.
Click to expand...

This aint no US medical system flaw. the whole country is messed up when it comes to hiring foreign workers.

Havent you heard what Mr.Bill gates and companies like IBM propagate. bring as many foreign workers you want, hire this and that. let the humble US worker suffer. Yesterday it was in the news that IBM who want a share of the stimulus bill funded by tax payers like you and me are now planning to send jobs to asian countries. So infact we are bailing them out to fire more american workers and create job oppurtunities everywhere else. :-(

US citizens like you and me have to bear the brunt of paying non US citizens thru our tax money.
 
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Black Surgeon said:
This isn't very common. US seniors fill around 96% of the ortho spots (altough it was 92% this year) and 98% for plastics every year. Internationals getting into ortho or plastics prob score in the 99.99th percentile on the USMLEs, have flabbergasting research experience or are already world renowned from abroad.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. Those IMGs who match in these fields are indeed the top cream the rest of the medical world has to offer. Its infact awesome to get these people in USA coz they can be a great contribution.
 
dtrack22 said:
8% is too many...4% is too many...I can live with a couple % as long as they actually are "world renowned". Don't use such strong verbiage if you have absolutely no way to back it up. Why do you post on the Pod forums anyways?
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Dood you are a prepod. why do you care anyway about who goes in ortho or plastics. We ourselves have a lot of problems in podiatry to deal with.

we have our own share of canadian brothers & sisters who will be competing against us in our podiatry residnecy. why dont you start a campaign to pressurize CRIP or whoever reisdency bosses are to hire US CITIZENS FIRST.:thumbup: since pod residencies are paid by US taxpayers.
 
cool_vkb said:
Dood you are a prepod. why do you care anyway about who goes in ortho or plastics. We ourselves have a lot of problems in podiatry to deal with.

we have our own share of canadian brothers & sisters who will be competing against us in our podiatry residnecy. why dont you start a campaign to pressurize CRIP or whoever reisdency bosses are to hire US CITIZENS FIRST.:thumbup: since pod residencies are paid by US taxpayers.
Click to expand...

they go to US schools, not offshore degree mills.
 
cool_vkb said:
Dood you are a prepod. why do you care anyway about who goes in ortho or plastics.
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First of all, use proper quotations and people will take you seriously. Second, I care because my fellow citizens are getting gypped when it comes to job opportunities. Also, I don't believe that all of these international students who get residencies are "world renowned" (more power to the ones that are since they perpetuate the high standard of health care we have here in the US). Which means there are some residency programs accepting non-citizens for the sake of diversity. That's where I have a problem, especially when there are equally qualified US grads who are scrambling for the same residency.

Your examples about outsourcing and how that is somehow related to what's going on here is ridiculous. Microsoft, IBM, farmers, etc. give jobs to foreigners because they will do the labor for less money. Once imaging centers find a way to email scans overseas to a doc who will read it for a fraction of the price a US radio will read it for, then bill the patient the same as if the US guy had done it...then, and only then does your analogy really apply to medicine.

As for the Canadian pod remarks...see tmoney's post.
 
dtrack22 said:
8% is too many...4% is too many...I can live with a couple % as long as they actually are "world renowned". Don't use such strong verbiage if you have absolutely no way to back it up.
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I tip my hat to any IMG daring enough to even enter the plastics/ortho match. I assure you that matching into one of those as an IMG is a monumental and flabbergasting feat. Heck, only about a 100 US students enter the plastics match every year.

dtrack22 said:
Why do you post on the Pod forums anyways?
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I post in every forum (even dental). I'm an avid pod forum lurker. I find the pod forums to have some of the most informative attendings: PADM, Natch, and Who knows? I might end up being an orthopod and working with one of you guys in the future.

Besides, some of regular characters and personalities in the pod forums are nothing short of entertaining.
 
tmoney said:
they go to US schools, not offshore degree mills.
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First of all i dont have any problem with canadians competing with us. My comments were towards dtrack22's bogus rhetoric against healthy competition for ortho/plastic residency match.

And for argument sake even if non-US citizens go to US medical school.So what? They are not US citizens. US taxpayer money (which funds residency) should be used for the welfare of US citizens first. Why should tax payers money be used to fund non citizens when US citizens who pay them are roaming on streets.

these are the words of dtrack22 from his earlier post "especially when there are equally qualified US grads who are scrambling for the same residency."
 
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dtrack22 said:
Also, I don't believe that all of these international students who get residencies are "world renowned"(more power to the ones that are since they perpetuate the high standard of health care we have here in the US).Which means there are some residency programs accepting non-citizens for the sake of diversity. That's where I have a problem, especially when there are equally qualified US grads who are scrambling for the same residency.
.
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Wow! Are you serious! :laugh: common you can make a better excuse than that.

So all their scores, CVs, LORs, etc etc must be of no use. all that people like you see is superficial diversity. its very disappointing.

heck then all immigrant students shoudnt worry at all. According to your mentality,some residency program will hire them irrepsective of their qualification just to add some diversity.
 
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Black Surgeon said:

I tip my hat to any IMG daring enough to even enter the plastics/ortho match. I assure you that matching into one of those as an IMG is a monumental and flabbergasting feat. Heck, only about a 100 US students enter the plastics match every year.


I post in every forum (even dental). I'm an avid pod forum lurker. I find the pod forums to have some of the most informative attendings: PADM, Natch, and Who knows? I might end up being an orthopod and working with one of you guys in the future.

Besides, some of regular characters and personalities in the pod forums are nothing short of entertaining.
Click to expand...

:thumbup:
 
dtrack22 said:
Your examples about outsourcing and how that is somehow related to what's going on here is ridiculous. Microsoft, IBM, farmers, etc. give jobs to foreigners because they will do the labor for less money.
Click to expand...

My post was about mr.bill gates comments about foreign workers. He doesnt want them in this country because its cheap labor. he wants them coz they are skilled and according to him there is shortage:(.

isnt this the same logic the residency programs use when hiring IMGs. they also say that there is shortage.

here's what mr.bill gate said during his testimony

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-3513_22-142533.html
 
dtrack22 said:
Second, I care because my fellow citizens are getting gypped when it comes to job opportunities.
Click to expand...

wait a min, you started your posts by venting anger against a small group of IMGs getting matched in ortho/plastic residnecies. and now you say...

A bunch of well qualified competent IMGs (hardly 8% or 4%) matching in ortho/plastic residency is affecting US citizens getting gypped when it comes to job oppurtunities.:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Oooooh how about we blame foreclosures, credit crises,etc etc on them also. You seem to be jumping from one topic to another and mixing them. Well have a good weekend. Go do better things with your life. Once you start pod school you will have a lot of podiatry related things to worry about.
 
cool_vkb said:
According to your mentality,some residency program will hire them irrepsective of their qualification just to add some diversity.
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Yes, just like some medical schools admit students regardless of qualifications just because the color of their skin puts them in the "disadvantaged" category...ie Howard University School of Medicine

cool_vkb said:
wait a min, you started your posts by venting anger against a small group of IMGs getting matched in ortho/plastic residnecies. and now you say...

A bunch of well qualified competent IMGs (hardly 8% or 4%) matching in ortho/plastic residency is affecting US citizens getting gypped when it comes to job oppurtunities.
Click to expand...

Sorry about the ortho/plastics example. Those are a couple of the hardest to match so I simply used them as an example. But IMG's are getting spaces in FP, ER, IM, Neuro, Cardio, Ped's, etc. Like I said before, if its the cream of the crop then I'm fine with that. But when qualified US med students can't get these residency spots then yes, they are getting "gypped."

cool_vkb said:
IBM who want a share of the stimulus bill funded by tax payers like you and me are now planning to send jobs to asian countries
Click to expand...

This is an example of outsourcing...I know what Bill Gates said but this was at the center of your analogy, the reason for my comments.

And as for the Canadians, they go through the same admissions process, curriculum, and pay the same tuition as the rest of us. Plus, there aren't thousands of them as in the allo- and osteo- world...plus they are relatively peaceful people
 
dtrack22 said:
But IMG's are getting spaces in FP, ER, IM, Neuro, Cardio, Ped's, etc. Like I said before, if its the cream of the crop then I'm fine with that. But when qualified US med students can't get these residency spots then yes, they are getting "gypped."

..............

............ And as for the Canadians, they go through the same admissions process, curriculum, and pay the same tuition as the rest of us. Plus, there aren't thousands of them as in the allo- and osteo- world...plus they are relatively peaceful people
Click to expand...

:thumbup: I cudnt agree more. you are absolutely right about IMGs in primary care,etc.

but speaking about canada issue. i didnt understood your last point about "relatively peaceful people"? so you are biased towards certain countries and against certain country citizens?
 
I have received two job offers, one for $130,000 with the possibility of loan repayment, money available for CMEs and licenses and yearly bonuses and the other job offer was from the Navy which with loan repayment and all of the goodies I believe would be roughly $100,000 for the 1st 3 yrs and after that it would roughly be $75,000 per year.
 
navyprincess said:
I have received two job offers, one for $130,000 with the possibility of loan repayment, money available for CMEs and licenses and yearly bonuses and the other job offer was from the Navy which with loan repayment and all of the goodies I believe would be roughly $100,000 for the 1st 3 yrs and after that it would roughly be $75,000 per year.
Click to expand...

I would imagine that there are a-lot of other perks involved with the military that would jack that $75,000 up substantially.
 
The 1st three years includes the loan repayment, after that you don't have that money.
 
navyprincess said:
The 1st three years includes the loan repayment, after that you don't have that money.
Click to expand...

hey, lets say i join army or navy in pod school itself. u knw that hspp thing. will it automatically guarantee residency in that army PM &S 36 program. i mean do they have preference for Armed forces recurited pod students over civilans?
 
whoa

only $75,000 after that? can u please elaborate on how that works?
 
You are not guaranteed a PM&S36 by joining the Navy, but if you don't match, you can always do a preceptorship under another pod in the Navy and hopefully get your numbers for surgery. Fort Bragg is an Army base, but I have been told that you can apply there if you are in the Navy. I have the option of doing a trauma fellowship in the Navy.

As far as the pay: you go in as an O-3 which base pay is $42483.60 per year, then you get housing allowance based on where you are located (mine is calculated to be roughly $17000 per year, then you get food allowance of $2676 per year, they pay for health insurance completely (which would cost roughly $5000 a year for a family of 2, as well as your retirement that you can get after 20 years (which is roughly half of your base pay or 75% of your base pay after 25 yrs). The housing and food allowance are tax free (so at the end of the year you are only paying taxes on your base pay). Again, the advancement is horrible-- one pod I met with is an O-5 after over 20 yrs in the Navy (and he just received that promotion). If you are not planning on retirement through the Navy, then it may not be worth it. I was able to pay off close to $38000 in student loans during my residency. You literally have to make a table and look at civilian compared to military pay. There are advantages and disadvantages to both ways. PM if you have any other questions.
 
G0dFather said:
are all doctor salaries for the navy this low ?? or is it just for pods
Click to expand...

No, for MD/DO; there's incentives like Board Certification Pay, (a few extra hundred a month)---same for other specialties..(DPM, etc..)

But anyway, advancement for the medical corps (MD/DO only) is a little bit better b/c they are only competing within their own fellow docs...

DPM's are part of the MSC (medical service corps) & have to compete with pharmacists, optometrists, social workers, health administrators, PT, PA's, PsyD's, AuD's, dietitians, OT's, & Ph.D's...Competing with all these specialties makes it EXTREMELY hard for DPM promotion....(MSC= largest Corps)....

Oh, & yes, MD/DO's do get other incentives for pay...(surgeon pay, etc..)..I'm not gonna list them all, but think of it this way, " if you were a MDA/OMD/Rad/Ortho----could you imagine getting paid ~$70,000 a year with NO incentives??---especially when these fields easily make over $300,000 EACH in the civilian sector....
 
Correct, the only incentive pay that a pod gets is for being board certified (which I believe is $250 per month). MD/DOs get a bonus depending on their specialty and if they are board certified or not. You will get yearly raises in the military (cost of living and the more years you are in the more you get paid, also as you get promoted to the next rank you do make a little more). Here is a link that will allow you to calculate your pay in the military:

http://www.defenselink.mil/militarypay/
 
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