* * 2009-2010 Letter of Recommendation Thread * *

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mig2k

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  1. Physical Therapy Student
I am getting a letter of recommendation from a doctor possessing both a DO and an MD degree and was wondering which (or both) he should put on the letter. I will be applying to mostly DO schools with maybe 10 MD schools. Anybody know if MD schools look down on DO letters or DO schools looking down on MD letters? Any information is greatly appreciated.
 
Excuse me for asking, how did your physician got 2 degrees?
 
He completed DO school in a foreign country and when he came here, he went to school again for his MD degree.
 
i actually had this problem when i was applying..in the 1970s, allopathic residencies were first opened up to DOs...there were, at this time, 5 DOs in the country who did an allopathic residency and earned a DO/MD...my particular letter of rec came from an ob/gyn..this was a residency program not even offered in the osteopathic world in teh 70's so we have come a long way..

i got asked about this DO/MD thing constantly in every single interview except his alum where they knew who he was..i was not just asked, i was down right pimped..

i suggest that you be prepared to answer questions about it..know the ins and outs of the reasons for the dual degree..if the guy is foreign, be prepared for questions and bashings about the validity of either his DO degree or both..

if you can get a letter from a straight up DO, can the DO/MD letter..it is not necessarily worth the hassle..
good luck!
 
I think I'll ask him to just sign DO and not the MD since I'm primarily applying to DO schools anyway.
 
you can try that, but he may not be too swift to sign without the MD after his name..some of these guys have a royal complex..the better route, the one without hassle, is certainly to find a pure DO
 
Regarding DO schools, you need to get at least one letter of recommendation from a DO, but I do not know any DO's what should I do? 😡
 
Regarding DO schools, you need to get at least one letter of recommendation from a DO, but I do not know any DO's what should I do? 😡
Us an MD letter instead, most schools don't care which you have.
 
You don't need a DO letter for every school.

yeah, i got into NYCOM without a DO or MD letter. and most schools require just a physician recommendation. if anything, start finding a DO near you.
 
Regarding DO schools, you need to get at least one letter of recommendation from a DO, but I do not know any DO's what should I do? 😡

Try to shadow or work with a DO. There aren't that many around, however, from what I've heard, most DOs are glad to write a recommendation for you if you do manage to find someone to shadow.
 
I would recommend getting a DO letter. I got 2 DO letters and 2 MD letters and I was very happy with my decision...it was also by far the most enjoyable part of the application process (short of acceptances and interview invites) because you could get out and see some action! 😀

Some programs require one...check our Chocolate Bear's posts in the pre-DO faq. LECOM comes to mind for one...
 
Simple solution:

Start off by typing "find a DO" into the google. Should find a site http://www.osteopathic.org/index.cfm?PageID=findado_main


Next, search for DOs within your area. If you want you can even search for DOs near you that have a specialty you are interested in.

Now, start cold calling everyone you found. Explain that you are interested in becoming an osteopathic physician and that you would like to shadow Dr. SuchAndSuch. (THIS STEP IS HARD, EXPECT REJECTION)

Shadow Dr. SuchAndSuch and ask him for a LOR.

Get into med school. (THIS STEP IS HARDEST, EXPECT REJECTION)

__________________________
Best of luck!
 
If you look at the list of schools I applied to (even if I withdrew pre-secondary), it is all the schools that didn't require a D.O. letter...except for affiliated branch campuses when I only applied to one campus (i.e. PCOM).

In that situation, however, you need an M.D. letter, at least.

If you don't have above average stats for D.O. acceptance, however, I wouldn't necessarily take this route. I've received "good" D.O. acceptances without having a D.O. letter, but I've been taken to task for my commitment to D.O. versus M.D. and had to come up with a compelling argument that I understand osteopathy in spite of not having shadowed a D.O. I think it was a major reason I was put on hold at DesMoines, rejected at CCOM, and have yet to hear from PCOM (who sent me a letter warning me that they preferred such a letter).
 
and he said that a patient of his that is a medical school admissions officer said that LORs from physicians that recommend a physicians is a no-go, "detrimental to the applicant." (My doctor mentioned that this conversation occured 15 years ago.)

So with this I called up LECOM-B and NOVA and asked them the same question.

"Can applicants provide LORs from their physicians?"

Nova said "No, you should shadow a doctor and then ask for one"

I asked "what if I shadowed my physician?"

she said after speaking with her superior that a LOR from a physician that was not your paitent is preferred (I guess that means required).


I then called LECOM-B and they said, "Sure we get LOR from family osteopathic physicians all of the time."

I then asked if a family member who was a physician could write a LOR and she said many applicants do that as well.

What the heck is going on here?
 
Getting a recommendation from your physician is ridiculous. I can't imagine that it would hold any weight. You might as well get a rec from you dad who is a doctor.

Just my humble opinion
 
and he said that a patient of his that is a medical school admissions officer said that LORs from physicians that recommend a physicians is a no-go, "detrimental to the applicant." (My doctor mentioned that this conversation occured 15 years ago.)

So with this I called up LECOM-B and NOVA and asked them the same question.

"Can applicants provide LORs from their physicians?"

Nova said "No, you should shadow a doctor and then ask for one"

I asked "what if I shadowed my physician?"

she said after speaking with her superior that a LOR from a physician that was not your paitent is preferred (I guess that means required).


I then called LECOM-B and they said, "Sure we get LOR from family osteopathic physicians all of the time."

I then asked if a family member who was a physician could write a LOR and she said many applicants do that as well.

What the heck is going on here?


Get a LOR from a physician who can comment on your character/ability to work with people/determination to become a physician. You should get this letter from a physician who you have shadowed. I shadowed a doctor who was my pediatrician for 13 years and it was no problem at all. So if you want one from your dermatologist I would definitely shadow him/her first. Good luck.
 
LOL, I'll give my thoughts.

--LORs from a family physician that knows you well (especially a DO, since they are harder to find than MDs) is okay, but not ideal.

--An LOR from your doc who has treated you AND let you shadow him/her would be good for two reasons:

1. He/she knows you well (personal contact as a patient)
2. He/she has seen you in a semi professional setting (shadowing)

--A LOR from a doc who was NOT your physician, who has let you shadow is good because of #2 above, but might be less personal because of lack of #1 above. However, they might be regarded as objective compared to a doc who has treated you and might be biased in your favor.

--I would stay far away from any LOR from someone with my last name. This is specifically NOT ALLOWED at many schools, and even if it is allowed, adcoms may still frown upon this and it might sour their attitudes towards you/your other LORs. I'd recommend using this family connection to find another great opportunity to shadow one of his/her friends/colleagues and get a LOR from that doc.

:luck:
 
Getting a recommendation from your physician is ridiculous. I can't imagine that it would hold any weight. You might as well get a rec from you dad who is a doctor.

Just my humble opinion

Are you serious? Who could better assess your ability to become a physician---a doctor who you have shadowed and who has known you for years and watched you mature or a doctor who you just met and shadowed a few times?
 
As you demonstrate in your original post, it seems as if its a school-to-school, person-by-person issue.

That being said, I think shadowing your own physician would be ideal in a rural setting where, say, there were only a couple doctors in town TO shadow.

If you're in a big city, why not just forget about this minor issue and shadow someone else? Ask your classmates or something?
 
My brother is a DO, but I would never have even thought of asking him for a LOR. :laugh:

I agree with the advice above; if you can shadow a doctor who knows you well (and preferably not of your family), go for it!
 
Idk, I used a LOR from my family physician and got an interview at NOVA...she didn't specifically state that I had been her patient, but she also didn't say I had shadowed her.. just that she had known me professionally and personally...
 
Idk, I used a LOR from my family physician and got an interview at NOVA...she didn't specifically state that I had been her patient, but she also didn't say I had shadowed her.. just that she had known me professionally and personally...

If she said that she knew you professionally, she's implying that she's known you in a shadowing-type situation. What else could that mean?

To the original poster -- you shouldn't ask your derm for a LOR. You should shadow him/her and then ask for a LOR. If your derm has only known you as a patient, how can they talk about you in a professional clinical setting? That's the point of the physician LOR.
 
The bottom line is that it's generally not a good idea to request a letter from a physician you didn't work with in some capacity and it's best to avoid any potential conflict of interest, if possible. The strongest letters are going to generally come from physicians who you shadowed, or who served as your preceptor, since they will have observed you, talked with you, and gathered evidence to cite relative to your suitability for medical school and to enter the profession.
 
I have many LOR offers, but I am struggling to get my last one of two science professor LORs. I am non-trad and have moved around, etc. So options are limited.

What would happen if, at the end of this semester (I apply in May and June), I am short one LOR from science faculty, but could put a personal/professional in its place? Would schools even consider an application that doesn't have the required 2 science? (assume no committee letter option)

This last science LOR is basically riding on this semester's performance, and that is not only a lot of pressure, but no guarantee.

Talk about coming up an inch short, after all that.
 
Honestly, I don't think schools really care. I shadowed my family practice doc once and got a letter from him. Of course, he didn't state that I was his patient. Also when another doc in that practice saw me for a UTI he asked if I needed a letter of rec once he found out I was applying to DO schools. He was a recent grad and understood how hard it is to get a DO letter if most of the physicians you come in contact with are MDs.
 
Honestly, I don't think schools really care. I shadowed my family practice doc once and got a letter from him. Of course, he didn't state that I was his patient. Also when another doc in that practice saw me for a UTI he asked if I needed a letter of rec once he found out I was applying to DO schools. He was a recent grad and understood how hard it is to get a DO letter if most of the physicians you come in contact with are MDs.

Two things:

1. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the weight a letter may have (either good or bad) on one's chances of admission. I've seen good applicants get rejected, ask for a file review, and get told the main problem was some wacked out LOR in their file. A LOR from someone deemed inappropriate (such as an ADCOM saying this about one's personal physician or family member) could easily hurt one's file.

2. What you've said does not support the idea that "schools don't really care." Your doc LOR didn't mention you as a patient, and the other doc was just being helpful, and it sounds like you didn't use that one, anyway.
 
If you came up one letter short, your results will ultimately vary by school. Some schools have a strict requirement of 2 science LORs, and they won't budge. In these cases, you should get yourself into a summer science class at a local CC, kill it, and get your letter.

Some other schools aren't so strict, and you might not have a big problem on your hands, if you can provide another letter, like a boss or non-sci, depending on the school.

However, keep the worst case scenario in mind, and try to come out, letter in hand. :luck:
 
Shadowing a doctor that also happened to treat you is different than just having a doc that was your PCP or whatever write a letter. I got a shadowing gig after I visited the urologist for an issue. He didn't write a letter, but I didn't ask him because I already had mine. You shouldn't have a letter from the person that sees you for 15-30 minutes a year. It isn't quite the same. They might know what surgeries you had, but they don't really know much about you as a person.
 
you still have some time. just try to get a letter now. but if you are short a science letter, definitely call the schools you are interested and ask them what you should do.
 
interesting...

Some also schools say they will take a letter from your pre-med advisor, but I'm not sure if that means that the advisor serves as your "committee" and compiles letters for you...
 
I was stuck in a similar situation; I thought I didn't meet any of my professors enough to warrant a letter. Turns out, they know the drill, so don't be shy asking. Even if you only met with the guy/gal once, email about a letter. Then meet them face to face and talk about why you want to be a doctor. I did this with an endocrinology professor I had (and BTW, only got a B+ in), and it worked for me! I'm in!
 
I don't know if the person who responded to you and said a letter from your physician or family member was "ok" was correct.

Most applications I filled out (and I filled out many--M.D. and D.O.) have a specific statement saying that letters from your treating physician or from a family member are not acceptable. They also give certain other categories that do not fill the "physician" or "science" recommender role.

Your physician recommender is supposed to be able to comment on your professional abilities--seriously. Your own physician has not seen you in that context. Your choice to pursue that recommendation shows a lack of good decision making, even if the content of that letter is a good personal recommendation. And specifically personal recommendations are generally not required for medical school (there are a handful of schools that like them).

And how could a family member be trusted to be unbiased? It'd be like taking a second personal statement--you hope it's true, but you need something to validate it.
 
Was this dermatologist a DO??? If so, did you inform him that DOs can't be dermatologists?? I think it's important he should know ... lest he waste more time. :meanie:




I'll regret saying this in three posts when some 18 year old freaks because he/she thinks DOs can't do derm.
 
Are you serious? Who could better assess your ability to become a physician---a doctor who you have shadowed and who has known you for years and watched you mature or a doctor who you just met and shadowed a few times?

Yes. I am serious. You father would also be very qualified to assess your abilities, but he would be signficantly biased, squashing the credibility of the recommendation. The same is true with your OWN physician. You should get a recommendation from someone you worked with closely for a long period of time who is not your physician or family member.
 
It seems to me that the doctor that knows you best (as long as its NOT a family member) will be in the best position to comment about your character, committment, and intellectual capacity.

My personal physician (DO) wrote my LOR and I got in at KCOM, KCUMB, and UNECOM. Just FYI
 
Two things:

1. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss the weight a letter may have (either good or bad) on one's chances of admission. I've seen good applicants get rejected, ask for a file review, and get told the main problem was some wacked out LOR in their file. A LOR from someone deemed inappropriate (such as an ADCOM saying this about one's personal physician or family member) could easily hurt one's file.

2. What you've said does not support the idea that "schools don't really care." Your doc LOR didn't mention you as a patient, and the other doc was just being helpful, and it sounds like you didn't use that one, anyway.


All I meant was that the doctor can be your physician and it won't be a problem. I thought it would go without saying that the guy wouldn't mention being your personal physician. That information wouldn't be relevant anyhow.
 
all right heres my situation,

My parents and I have different PCP, I was planning on shadowing my parents' family doc and eventually ask for an LOR... should I drop this idea just to avoid the complication?
 
all right heres my situation,

My parents and I have different PCP, I was planning on shadowing my parents' family doc and eventually ask for an LOR... should I drop this idea just to avoid the complication?

I don't see any real potential for complication, or conflict of interest, as long as you shadow this doc.
 
i applied to 7 DO schools and have received 5 interviews short one science letter
 
I'm glad I saw this. I shadowed a DO that I see all the time at the hospital I work at. I asked if he knew any primary care doc's who were familiar with the vegan diet/lifestyle and he said that he is. So I asked if he wanted to be my primary care physician. I guess I should hold off on becoming his patient. Or should I not worry about it and think of this as a good(?) story to tell?

As long as you genuinely shadow him and obtain an LOR from that experience, you're not doing anything wrong.

However, he may not want to mention that you are his patient.
 
I was in the same boat, as I finished my bachelor's degree in 2004 and had difficulty finding science professors who still remembered me (although it helped that I was one of those students who asked a lot of questions in class). I am fortunate to be accepted to med school this year, so I will share my suggestions.

First of all, find out if all schools require 2 science letters. Most require at least 1, and there are very few schools that simply require you to get a letter from academic or work-related individuals who know you best.

For schools that require 2 letters, ask to see if other semi-science related subjects like biostats or math or engineering professor letters can be used. Some schools may possibly allow you to do this if you explain your situation to them and get permission.

I emailed a bunch of my old professors, but few still remembered me after all these years. Although it was awkward writing letters to professors years later asking for assistance, I explained my situation about how I was in a pinch trying to find letter writers after all these years. In science classes where I had an 'A', I defintely mentioned that in my email to that professor. One initially agreed to meet with me, but later declined- saying she didn't remember me sufficiently and could only write a very generic letter. So that was unfortunately a no go. (I still would have used her letter if I had no other options, but fortunately things worked out for me... continue reading below...)

I ended up getting a letter from an organic chemistry professor who had me for 2 years. (I got 'C's in orgo 1 & 2 the first time around, and then repeated both classes the following year and did much better.) Taking a letter from him was a huge risk, as he is a stoic person and I had no idea what he thought of me, or if he liked me at all - especially as I got 'C's the first time in his class. I took my chances though (since I was desperate), which luckily worked out - I suppose at the very least he could say I was persistent enough to not give up and take classes with him again (as he was the most difficult ochem professor) until I succeeded.

For the second letter, I just couldn't find another science professor to write me a letter (as my graduate coursework was all non-science. I had no trouble at all getting non-science letters, as my graduate and work-related supervisors wrote those for me gladly. But finding science letters was super difficult. Most of the professors I wrote to either ignored my email or declined my request. Rejection... ouch.). I had one physics TA who agreed to write me a letter back in 2004 (as I was considering going to med school back then), so I thought I'd take a chance to see if I could still find him over the internet and see if he might still remember me enough to write a letter. Unfortunately I couldn't locate him online. I remembered another science TA (in an upperdivision class in which I received a 'B' in 2003) who I had met with many times for tutoring. Thankfully I was able to reach her online, and she finally agreed to write me a letter. The professor whose class she TA-ed for only remembered me vaguely (which is lucky at all, due to my always asking questions in class). I remember when I took the class in 2003, he told students that he would only write LORs for students who got 'A's in the class, not 'B's. So I did not bother to ask him directly for a letter, but when I told him that one of his former TAs was writing me a letter, he agreed to co-sign a letter if the TA would write it - which she did. Phew.... 😛

So after all that stress of finding science professors from 2003-2004 classes, I was really lucky to get my 2 letters at all. It was REALLY difficult finding people and almost kinda embarrasing to ask people for letters 4-5 years later from when I took their classes. But I had to swallow my pride to get things taken care of. I also took a lot of risks asking professors in whose classes I didn't have 'A's in, but in my case, my selection was limited... as I was lucky at all to find people who still remembered me enough to write letters. I was also fortunate that my non-science professors/supervisors adored me, so in the case that my science letters were not as strong, at least my other letters may have made up for it somewhat.

If you absolutely cannot find people to write you letters, the only other solution is to take a few spring/summer science courses and ace them and hope 1-2 of your professors will be willing to write a letter. While I ended up being lucky that my letters were good enough to get me accepted, but other students may not be willing to take that risk. In that case, it may be better to get 'A's and find teachers who you feel confident really like you, rather than being forced to ask widely in hopes someone still remembers you from years prior.

Hopefully my experiences may be helpful to some of you. Although asking widely for letters wasn't fun, now that I have been accepted to med school... it was definitely worth it! Good luck!! :luck:
 
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Hey Everyone,

So I'm not sure how other schools do their committee letters?

At my school, I choose professors to send a letter to the pre-med advisor who then puts the letters together. My dilemma is that I'm not sure whether I should have all from science professors and how many different professors should I do. I guess I could choose 3 or 4, so is it better to choose 4?

If I choose 4 then I planned on having 3 science professors (2 biology, 1 chemistry) and then 1 psych professor.

Please any and all comments on how others have this done would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!
 
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