NBDE PART 2 is being Alleged by ASDA as UNFAIR---GET ATTORNEY'S AND SUE....

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Goatswalk

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....Someone should the Joint Dental Commission for failing to deliver a fair exam that is reflective of the practice, judgement and knowledge of dentistry. I got this email from ASDA about receiving allegations about high failure rates over the past months!!...That's messed up b/c a lot of students are graduating and failed students with the NBDE has to sacrafice graduating requirements to achieve a passing grade on their retakes, which the Joint Dental Commission moves the cure higher on the retake....I took the test the first time and I got as I could remember around 303 questions right., and my score was like a 73 and on my retake, I got a 76 as I remember with 355 questions right....if i got 355 questions right the first time, I would probably have a 83...The Joint Dental Commission is asking for a serious lawsuit against and they're going to be looking like crazy when one is delivered to their door step...
HERE IS THE EMAIL I RECEIVED FROM THE ASDA BELOW:
------------------------------------------------------------------

ASDA's Response to Concerns Regarding Failure Rate for NBDE II

[FONT=Tahoma, Arial, sans-serif] .
Dear ASDA Member,

It has come to the attention of the Board of Trustees that the national rate of failure on the NDBE Part II has increased significantly over the past few months. The Board is currently taking action to build concrete evidence of this change. We are requesting support from the Deans, the American Dental Education Association (ADEA) and the American Dental Association (ADA) to ensure that the exam is fair to all students and secure.

The Joint Commission that facilitates the exam has identified that this increase affects dental students nationwide. However, statistical data has not yet been compiled that illustrates the severity of the failure rate. We will begin discussions with all interested parties, including dental school Deans, ADEA, the ADA, the Joint Commission and other student dental groups. We hope to come to a resolution as soon as possible that is in the best interest of students and the profession.

Sincerely,

Timothy Moriarty
President
American Student Dental Association
University of Connecticut DSIV
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Goatswalk said:
....Someone should the Joint Dental Commission for failing to deliver a fair exam that is reflective of the practice, judgement and knowledge of dentistry. I got this email from ASDA about receiving allegations about high failure rates over the past months!!...That's messed up b/c a lot of students are graduating and failed students with the NBDE has to sacrafice graduating requirements to achieve a passing grade on their retakes, which the Joint Dental Commission moves the cure higher on the retake....I took the test the first time and I got as I could remember around 303 questions right., and my score was like a 73 and on my retake, I got a 76 as I remember with 355 questions right....if i got 355 questions right the first time, I would probably have a 83...The Joint Dental Commission is asking for a serious lawsuit against and they're going to be looking like crazy when one is delivered to their door step...
HERE IS THE EMAIL I RECEIVED FROM THE ASDA BELOW:
------------------------------------------------------------------

ASDA's Response to Concerns Regarding Failure Rate for NBDE II


Dear ASDA Member,

It has come to the attention of the Board of Trustees that the national rate of failure on the NDBE Part II has increased significantly over the past few months. The Board is currently taking action to build concrete evidence of this change. We are requesting support from the Deans, the American Dental Education Association (ADEA) and the American Dental Association (ADA) to ensure that the exam is fair to all students and secure.

The Joint Commission that facilitates the exam has identified that this increase affects dental students nationwide. However, statistical data has not yet been compiled that illustrates the severity of the failure rate. We will begin discussions with all interested parties, including dental school Deans, ADEA, the ADA, the Joint Commission and other student dental groups. We hope to come to a resolution as soon as possible that is in the best interest of students and the profession.

Sincerely,

Timothy Moriarty
President
American Student Dental Association
University of Connecticut DSIV
Click to expand...


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The ASDA said they need statistical data to find a resolution?....Please:

All there needs to exist for a resolution is:
1. The students who failed.
2. Their failed score report
3. Their academic transcripts
4. Scores of NERB, WESTERNS, etc., if they took them, which is more dental significant.
5. Copies of the released ASDA exams that could depict to a court judge the irrelevancy of the exam.
6. A good trial lawyer
 
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...and one more final note:

If they want to make exams that CHEAT AGAINST THE MERITS OF A STUDENT, THEN CHEAT BACK ON THEM TO PASS YOUR TEST!!!

...FAIR IS FAIR!!!....If the Joint Dental Commission feels there is no profit towards the dental profession by making these exams fair, then no student should without profit by losing either...so I feel a failing student should CHEAT to WIN!!!

They're CHEATING students, so students should CHEAT back!!
 
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it is disgusting that the ada thinks they need time to "gather up evidence" to prove their exam was unfair. i mean with one click of their computer that could pull up all the scores for the past few weeks, months, years of students' scores for part 2.

ADA just admit u made a mistake and add 5-10pts to everyones exam and then this years failure rate would be the same as last years. maybe 5 people failed last year and i'm in the largest dental school in the US
 
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fishey5884 said:
it is disgusting that the ada thinks they need time to "gather up evidence" to prove their exam was unfair. i mean with one click of their computer that could pull up all the scores for the past few weeks, months, years of students' scores for part 2.

ADA just admit u made a mistake and add 5-10pts to everyones exam and then this years failure rate would be the same as last years. maybe 5 people failed last year and i'm in the largest dental school in the US
Click to expand...


If I was a lawyer, and I would make a killing with this suit!!!...$200,000/year/student x #failed students = MILLIONS ON VERDICT!!
 
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They stated they are the lawyers for freedom, democracy and fairness!!

I found their number: 1-877-JMLAWYER.

I don't know if Student doctor network wants me to put numbers here, but this needs attention for those who are suffering.
 
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...make a copy of the ASDA notice and send to the attorney and discussed the legal issues here and lost of future income....I promise you, They will listen!!
 
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according to my result paper form ada the nation's raw average score is 429/600 which is 71%. this is raw score i would like to know what would that correspond to with a curve. i know 409 is a 74 because that's what i got.
 
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I support this effort. I actually emailed the sender on that email I also recieved from ASDA and did not get a reply. I wonder how long this will take to finally fix. People are failing disproportionately when compared to past years. Something has changed and it just isn't right. I emailed the sender my own personal experience and score, which was a 74. I would like to see what is going to happen with this and if any resolution will come about. I put in 3 months of solid studying and still scored a 74. If my transcripts were ever examined, there would certainly be a large discrepancy between NBDE Part II and my GPA.
 
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ddsforlife said:
according to my result paper form ada the nation's raw average score is 429/600 which is 71%. this is raw score i would like to know what would that correspond to with a curve. i know 409 is a 74 because that's what i got.
Click to expand...

Little confused. The exam is out of 500 questions. 400 on day 1, 100 case based on day 2. 400+ 100 = 500. I know basic math is not on the exam, but simple reasoning is. Get your facts straight before you start spouting off :rolleyes:

Also, this is a STANDARDIZED, say it with me "STANDARDIZED," TEST :nod:
There is no correlation between national raw average and composite score. You can't just punch in numbers and get a result.

A second thought.

To anyone that is saying they will sue the ADA...good luck. Do you really have that good an understanding of tort law that you know this is a good case? Do you think the ADA and Joint Commission don't have a team of lawyers aware of what ASDA is alleging? Do you understand that this will be yet another example of the bitching and moaning that not only is considered a legal case but also seems to be encouraged by our country's legal system? Most people that are bitching about suing are probably the same people that want to get into OMS and then want to sue any program when they don't match; because their transcipt says blah blah blah.

Study, take the test, pass. You should be more mad with your dental school than the ADA if you fail, because they are the ones that should be teaching to the level of board exams.

Until I see some hard evidence that can support the ADA being in the wrong, I just can't believe that this year the exam went compeltely to hell.

And if this turns out to be a true "conspiracy" or ethical wrong the ADA is putting us poor dental students through, then I will retract all my previous statements. Until then, please stop wasting your time posting things about this, and study your decks and tests.

I hate seeing people try to find someone/thing to blame when something either doesn't go their way or goes wrong.

To everyone yet to take the exam, STUDY UP! Don't get caught up in this, just study the decks and released exams and do your best.
 
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jpasiczn said:
Little confused. The exam is out of 500 questions. 400 on day 1, 100 case based on day 2. 400+ 100 = 500. I know basic math is not on the exam, but simple reasoning is. Get your facts straight before you start spouting off :rolleyes:

Also, this is a STANDARDIZED, say it with me "STANDARDIZED," TEST :nod:
There is no correlation between national raw average and composite score. You can't just punch in numbers and get a result.

A second thought.

To anyone that is saying they will sue the ADA...good luck. Do you really have that good an understanding of tort law that you know this is a good case? Do you think the ADA and Joint Commission don't have a team of lawyers aware of what ASDA is alleging? Do you understand that this will be yet another example of the bitching and moaning that not only is considered a legal case but also seems to be encouraged by our country's legal system? Most people that are bitching about suing are probably the same people that want to get into OMS and then want to sue any program when they don't match; because their transcipt says blah blah blah.

Study, take the test, pass. You should be more mad with your dental school than the ADA if you fail, because they are the ones that should be teaching to the level of board exams.

Until I see some hard evidence that can support the ADA being in the wrong, I just can't believe that this year the exam went compeltely to hell.

And if this turns out to be a true "conspiracy" or ethical wrong the ADA is putting us poor dental students through, then I will retract all my previous statements. Until then, please stop wasting your time posting things about this, and study your decks and tests.

I hate seeing people try to find someone/thing to blame when something either doesn't go their way or goes wrong.

To everyone yet to take the exam, STUDY UP! Don't get caught up in this, just study the decks and released exams and do your best.
Click to expand...

Hey, I have to agree w/most everything you say, I don't agree w/the bitching and moaning going on 'cause it leads nowhere. quit worrying about what numbers are needed for this or that, you gotta put in the time, study hard and do your best. HOWEVER, I can't believe you can actually blame the dental schools for this situation. If it was isolated to a few d.schools, then by all means. This is going on ACROSS THE BOARD IN ALL DENTAL SCHOOLS, so it's unreasonable to blame the schools for what's going on. We don't know what's going at the natl level w/the ADA but whatever is happening is affecting the graduating students negatively and it's damn obvious w/the HUGE spike in failures this year. Like you said though, study up, I couldn't agree with you more!!
 
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Rumor in our neck of the wood says it's because previously it was only the cumulative score that mattered, and this year they changed it so that you have to pass each section individually as well.
 
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I am glad to see I'm not the only one who has spent endless months studying to receive a score of a 74! I feel frustrated and confused as to the next step. What is frustrating is how long is this investigation going to last for? I called the Joint commissioners office today and they said it will end "soon". Well, what does soon mean? ANY ADVICE OUT THERE as to would you just re take it again in 3 months OR wait for this to be resolved? My concern is for those of us going into residency come July 1st, what happens if we still haven't passed this dam exam yet?? ahhhh I want to screammm I'm so mad @ this. Why do we have to be the lucky ones to take this exam during "investigation" times. :mad:
 
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You called them and they said that? I called today and the representative I spoke to knew nothing of what I was talking about. Basically had to tell her what was going on and she was clueless then proceeded to argue with me. She isn't a dental student and has no idea about the percentage of failures as of recent. Anyway, something needs to be done, the failure rate continues to increase here at Nova Southeastern University and the 2009-2010 exam I took did not resemble any of the practice exams at all.
 
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wait..why is there 600 questions and not 500 when we add up the number of questions on the score sheet? the exam had 500 correct. ?? What am i missing here? :confused:
 
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Goatswalk said:
Sue
Click to expand...

Are you kidding me? They just reset the minimum of acceptable knowledge.

And who in there right mind would admit a mistake was made in scoring? It undermines the entire authenticity of the test. Not to mention $$$.

Just my thoughts.

And yes, I have taken the test and it was hard. My score was lower than I wanted, but exactly what I deserved based upon my performance that day. I dont care what previous years got compared to my raw score, blah blah blah.
 
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Rotten Tooth said:
wait..why is there 600 questions and not 500 when we add up the number of questions on the score sheet? the exam had 500 correct. ?? What am i missing here? :confused:
Click to expand...

Rotten tooth - you are adding the 100 case based ?s. Those 100 ?s are divvied up among all the sections. The joint commission just shows you what you scored on the second day, but those ?s are already distributed in the rest of the sections.
 
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DrDM said:
Are you kidding me? They just reset the minimum of acceptable knowledge.

And who in there right mind would admit a mistake was made in scoring? It undermines the entire authenticity of the test. Not to mention $$$.

Just my thoughts.

And yes, I have taken the test and it was hard. My score was lower than I wanted, but exactly what I deserved based upon my performance that day. I dont care what previous years got compared to my raw score, blah blah blah.
Click to expand...

The question is why did they reset the minimum of acceptable knowledge? Did they decide that previous classes were inept because the standard was too easy? It is obviously very easy for those who passed to say get over it, but the key here is that the failure rate that they altered had been determined to be stable and reliable BY THE JOINT COMMISSION THEMSELVES for over a decade. Their own power point presentations that they post on the ADA website from their annual meetings says exactly that. So if the test was reliable last year when that presentation was made, why did the standard need to be altered?

I agree with you that there is no way they will admit error in scoring. So we all will have to find a way to pass this thing.

However, if the first time test taker from an accredited school has tripled, then can you all imagine what the repeat test taker fail rate is this time? Scary.

Background info: First time examiners from accredited schools was 5.3% a year ago. To date this year it is 13.3%
Repeat examiners from accredited schools was around 30.8% a year ago.
 
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Tooth Guy said:
However, if the first time test taker from an accredited school has tripled, then can you all imagine what the repeat test taker fail rate is this time? Scary.
Click to expand...

yup. Add in graduation requirements, clinical boards, state exams, finding a job....this is truely a distressing situation. All this takes time and money and retaking the test is not fun. Thank goodness I had a lucky day I guess.

Best of luck to all but the 'new' test is here to stay I bet...
 
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nyu has about 100 (about 30 %)students that has failed part2...and we were told that the national average is about 13 %.
 
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happy2bhappy said:
nyu has about 100 (about 30 %)students that has failed part2...and we were told that the national average is about 13 %.
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we have to study harder than before and pass this exam...nobody cares about us students...we are own our own, the deans of the schools dont really care, if they can keep us in school and make us work for another year they will do it. study hard guys and we can do this exam...i got 333 and i got 74%.
 
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happy2bhappy said:
nyu has about 100 (about 30 %)students that has failed part2...and we were told that the national average is about 13 %.
Click to expand...

Ours is 30% as well. Admin told us that was about standard. Doesn't seem like people know for sure yet.
 
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Information: http://www.asdanet.org/uploadedFiles/PartIIScores2009.pdf

Dear ASDA Member:

Many of you have expressed concern regarding the reported increase in the failure rate on the National Board Dental Exam Part II, and have inquired about ASDA's efforts in investigating the issue.

ASDA has made your concerns clear to the leaders of the American Dental Association and the American Dental Education Association. At the recent ADEA meeting, I spoke with ADEA President Dr. Ron Hunt, as well as the ADEA Council on Students, and both were already aware of the increase in failure rates and concerns about the exam. The ADEA Council of Deans specifically discussed this issue, and Dr. Gene Kramer of the Joint Commission presented data from 2009 on the exam that illustrated a dramatic increase in failure rates. The ADA provided us with a summary of some of this data.

I've also been in direct contact with ADA President Dr. Ron Tankersley, who reassured me that your concerns about the exam will be addressed. The Joint Commission meets in April, and they will provide answers to many of your questions. ASDA will update you with more information at that point. Please be assured that we are working on your behalf to the best of our ability to ensure that the exam is fair and secure.

Sincerely,

Timothy Moriarty
President
American Student Dental Association
University of Connecticut
School of Dental Medicine DSIV
 
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