How competitive is Neurology?

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SoulinNeed

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I know neurosurgery is hard to get, but what about neurology? From my research, it seems like it's not that competitive since a lot of IMGs are taking spots. http://mdsalaries.blogspot.com/2005/10/neurologist-salaries-medicine-surgery.html

When I look at match lists, though, there seems to be only a few that match into neurology (2-3), now is this due to competitiveness, or lack of interest? Or is it hard to match directly into Neurology, and one must first go through a year of IM, and due a fellowship then? I've been reading a lot of books related to neurology, and it's been really interesting to me (especially since I have a close friend dealing with Parkinson's). Anyone got any info on the field? BTW, I'm speaking from a strictly DO perspective here. Thanks!
 
SoulinNeed said:
I know neurosurgery is hard to get, but what about neurology? From my research, it seems like it's not that competitive since a lot of IMGs are taking spots. http://mdsalaries.blogspot.com/2005/10/neurologist-salaries-medicine-surgery.html

When I look at match lists, though, there seems to be only a few that match into neurology (2-3), now is this due to competitiveness, or lack of interest? Or is it hard to match directly into Neurology, and one must first go through a year of IM, and due a fellowship then? I've been reading a lot of books related to neurology, and it's been really interesting to me (especially since I have a close friend dealing with Parkinson's). Anyone got any info on the field? BTW, I'm speaking from a strictly DO perspective here. Thanks!
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Are you asking about ACGME or AOA residencies? As I understand it, Neuro is semi competitive, maybe on the level of EM.

My guess is lack lack of interest explains the lack of matches.
 
Either, I guess, although ACGME would be preferable.
 
SoulinNeed said:
Either, I guess, although ACGME would be preferable.
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I can't really say for sure and can only speak to what I have seen. I do know that a neuro resident near me is a LECOM grad and that there were other LECOM students being interviewed for this coming year. I have been told that the program has had Western/COMP grads for Neuro. Keep in mind the Neuro program is on probation and as such isn't exactly the most competitive or desirable program of recent...
 
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I think neurology ( MD residency) isn't that hard to get into. I remember there being a 98% match rate for MD's so its probably easy to say that it's not a competitive residency.
 
According to NRMP, http://www.nrmp.org/data/resultsanddata2009.pdf

There were 196 Neurology ACGME residencies. 125 were filled by US MDs, 10 were filled by DO's, 9 by US IMG (Caribbean), and 52 were filled by Non-US IMGs. 1 position went unfilled. I didn't realize that Neurology had such a small number of programs. I guess after looking at IM for so long, having only 196 positions is shocking, lol. Well, I think as a DO, I have a decent shot, especially if 52 of those positions are being filled by Non-US IMGs, and 9 are being filled by Caribbean.
 
Wow.... Why is neurology such an undesirable specialty?
 
KTownGT said:
Wow.... Why is neurology such an undesirable specialty?
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Low income and requires high levels of intelligence. Neurology is probably one of the few specialties you go into if only your strongly interested in the brain.
You should reflect upon psychiatry, its probably one of the most undesirable specialties and one that goes majorly unfilled. However if your interested in dealing with the mind then its something you'll do.
 
serenade said:
Low income and requires high levels of intelligence. Neurology is probably one of the few specialties you go into if only your strongly interested in the brain.
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I think (keep in mind, I'm at the end of my M2 year) that neuro is what I want. It's what got me interested in medicine in the first place. The potential for a lower income doesn't bother me as much because it's something I REALLY like. I really wish someone could find a straight answer as to what type of COMLEX scores these programs will take (not that that was asked in this thread, but I've been curious for a while...so if anyone knows........speak up!)
 
One reason I think most people don't enter Neurology is that it seems so depressing. I'm basing this off of Becoming a Doctor: A Journey of Initiation in Medical School by Melvin Konner. Don't get me wrong, I find the work fascinating but the diseases being treated (Parkinson's, Alzheimers, etc) are diseases you just try to make the individuals life better as much as you can but there's no "real" cure yet. As future physicians, this should always be our goal but it would not be for someone expecting "immediate" results or that bases their happiness off of "cured" individuals. Sorry about the quotations, but those are relative terms. The silver lining is that this is a great profession for research! Imagine how many lives you could improve if you found better treatments?http://www.amazon.com/Melvin-Konner...ch_lnk_2?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1274824374&sr=1-3
 
OrangeRoost said:
One reason I think most people don't enter Neurology is that it seems so depressing. I'm basing this off of Becoming a Doctor: A Journey of Initiation in Medical School by Melvin Konner. Don't get me wrong, I find the work fascinating but the diseases being treated (Parkinson's, Alzheimers, etc) are diseases you just try to make the individuals life better as much as you can but there's no "real" cure yet. As future physicians, this should always be our goal but it would not be for someone expecting "immediate" results or that bases their happiness off of "cured" individuals. Sorry about the quotations, but those are relative terms. The silver lining is that this is a great profession for research! Imagine how many lives you could improve if you found better treatments?
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That's a very good point. I did a lot of work in undergrad with people with HIV/AIDS. What struck me most about the HIV/AIDS population is how easily they were ignored because there wasn't a cure yet. Not that there's not a TON of research being done, there is, but these people need care in the mean time. That's how I've always looked at neurology too. People need good, solid care from invested practitioners in the mean time. The other thing to look at is the possibility of integration of rehabilitation into a neurology practice, there's A LOT to think about.
 
neuro isn't that competitive.

On the other hand, EVERYTHING is getting competitive. This year there were hundreds of AMGs that are without a residency - there were not enough residency spots in the scramble to accomodate all the AMGs that didn't match. Even IM only had something like 54 spots left after match for the scramble.
 
ShyRem said:
neuro isn't that competitive.

On the other hand, EVERYTHING is getting competitive. This year there were hundreds of AMGs that are without a residency - there were not enough residency spots in the scramble to accomodate all the AMGs that didn't match. Even IM only had something like 54 spots left after match for the scramble.
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Really? According to the NRMP chart that I posted earlier, there were 22,427 PGY-1 ACGME positions. 21,340 were filled, and the number of total AMG applicants (DO+MD) was 16,519. Are you looking at some other info?
 
What was released to those of us who went through the match this year was there were more AMGs who didn't match than positions open in the scramble. I forget the exact numbers, but it caused quite a bit of discussion.

At least that's what they told us going through the match this year. And that's what has been discussed in the match forum.
 
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ShyRem said:
On the other hand, EVERYTHING is getting competitive. This year there were hundreds of AMGs that are without a residency - there were not enough residency spots in the scramble to accomodate all the AMGs that didn't match. Even IM only had something like 54 spots left after match for the scramble.
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So I am assuming that IMGs took up some of the spots that could have went to these AMGs?? Not to discriminate, but shouldn't residency spots first go to AMGs before IMGs? Do you know if there are any plans to change this in the future to ensure that all AMGs will get some kind of spot if the number of residency positions stay the same? Sorry, I could probably Google and find out some results, but after an exhausting day, my brain just does not feel like doing any kind of research. =)
 
Ok. I just went and looked at the data again.

Total PGY-1 positions: 22,809. Total matched: 21,749. That leaves 1,060 PGY1 positions open for scramble.

PGY-1 UNMATCHED applicants:
US allo med schools: 1,078
previous grads of US allo med schools: 747
DO students: 601
Total unmatched US students: 2,426

This doesn't count the 1,946 US citizen FMGs. There were a total of 8,794 unmatched PGY-1 applicants.
 
Superman DO said:
So I am assuming that IMGs took up some of the spots that could have went to these AMGs?? Not to discriminate, but shouldn't residency spots first go to AMGs before IMGs? Do you know if there are any plans to change this in the future to ensure that all AMGs will get some kind of spot if the number of residency positions stay the same? Sorry, I could probably Google and find out some results, but after an exhausting day, my brain just does not feel like doing any kind of research. =)
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That would be correct, IMGs were offered spots pre-match. DO students are also able to pre-match ACGME if offered. As far as anyone knows or is talking about, there are no plans announced or in the works to ensure AMGs get matched before IMGs.
 
KTownGT said:
Wow.... Why is neurology such an undesirable specialty?
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Remember that Neurology is a PGY-2+ residency program. Many people may go in with the desire to do neurology, but they may become passionate about IM or Surgery after their preliminary. In addition, Neurologists have to deal with some of the sickest patients that they can only manage. There are no "cures" for MS, Alzheimer, etc. It takes an emotional toll and you must be brilliant to keep up with the literature.
 
ShyRem said:
That would be correct, IMGs were offered spots pre-match. DO students are also able to pre-match ACGME if offered. As far as anyone knows or is talking about, there are no plans announced or in the works to ensure AMGs get matched before IMGs.
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It may have been a case where many AMGs overshot, and aimed for more competitive spots than they could get in. By then, all the less competitive spots in IM or FM, or whatever, were already taken up by IMGs. That's just my theory, though.
 
that is supposition. I know solid students who applied for IM who didn't match but the programs had more than a couple of IMGs. The few I personally know who didn't match (or the few who admitted not matching) managed to scramble into a position and felt very lucky to have done so.
 
does any one have any info on what the numbers for surgery look like?
 
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