Abysmal GPA, high MCAT. Is there hope for an allo MD?

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tpsreport

tpsreport

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  1. Attending Physician
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I completely screwed up in college. By completely screwing up, I mean 2.55 science and 2.69 cumulative at an Ivy, with 21 out of 37 courses being science. Yea, it's that bad 🙁
MCAT, however, is a 37S: 11V, 12B, 14P.
I've done research at three different institutions since high school; one in HS and one in college, and I'm currently working full time in a lab now.
I am certain that I will receive stellar letters from my bosses, and I'm also currently in the Nutrition program at Columbia.
I am also shadowing a physician.

I'm currently halfway through my Master's if I apply this cycle, and I'm already a year out of school, which means IF I were to be accepted I'd be in the class of 2012 (I will have completed my Masters by the time Med School starts in 2012, however). My grades are doing much, much better, but I'm not sure if four classes are enough to show schools that I can do well in classes, since I'm only able to take classes part time while going to work full time. (I've split a one year program into two)
Should I do a Special Master's Program (SMP) as well?
If I were to apply next year around the end of my SMP (which would start this september), I would be applying with full a completed SMP transcript, and will finish my Nutrition Masters at Columbia in the year between completion of the SMP and the beginning of Medical School, so I'll be leaving nothing unfinished.

I apologize for the wall of text, but I think I'm going mad wondering if I even have a snowball's chance in hell.

DO schools and getting a PhD are out of the question. I have my heart set on an allopathic MD. I'll take WHATEVER I can get, with Caribbean schools as a last resort. I'd rather go to the Special Master's Program and apply a year later than go to a Caribbean school.

WHAT SHOULD I DO AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
:scared:

EDIT: See below for an update in June 2012

RE EDIT: Second update in October 2012

EDIT: January 2013: Accepted 1/8/ at SUNY Upstate. In-state!
 
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My current situation is:

College ends (2009)
Lab work (2010)
Lab work/Columbia Nutrition (2011)
Lab work/Columbia Nutrition (2012) <=== Will finish Masters here in June
Ohmygoddearihope Med School (2012 August/September)

My second option:

College ends (2009)
Lab work (2010)
Lab work/Columbia Nutrition (2011)
Special Master's Program (2012)
(something)/Columbia Nutrition (2013) <=== Will finish Masters in June
Med School (2013 August/September)

After college it's been the same lab. I've been in two publications, one in college and one currently, but I'm not sure if that will even count for anything.


EDIT: See below for an update in June 2012

RE EDIT: Second update in October 2012
 
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Sorry that this doesn't answer your question but I was wondering how you were able to get into a Columbia master's program with that GPA. I apologize if I am ignorant to the other factors but this stood out to me so I'm pretty curious.
 
@Franz, good questions, baller GRE score??? Although master's programs are truly getting easier and easier to get into due to the annual increase of these programs.

@OP, SMP program might be your best bet since that seems to be the best option for GPA damage control. Nice job on the MCAT btw, must be frustrating to know you belong in medical school but dicking around during undergrad has put you in this spot, trust me I know how you feel and wish I could take freshman year back (well maybe not, the partying was def. worth it)
 
FranzLO said:
Sorry that this doesn't answer your question but I was wondering how you were able to get into a Columbia master's program with that GPA. I apologize if I am ignorant to the other factors but this stood out to me so I'm pretty curious.
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The director of admissions told me the following:

"The only reason we are letting you in is because of your MCAT"

Hope that answers your question.
 
tpsreport said:
The director of admissions told me the following:

"The only reason we are letting you in is because of your MCAT"

Hope that answers your question.
Click to expand...

Well that is a good start considering that it shows how your efforts and improvement can make up for some earlier poor performances.

I would suggest considering DO or at least learning more about it if you have not but an SMP would be extremely valuable to show that you are able to handle advanced science coursework along with your nutrition experience. I know some students with less than stellar undergraduate success, many examples also being on SDN, that were accepted after their SMP's. It may also be great preparation for medical school in general. Money etc. excluded, there isn't really a reason to rush the process since cycles can be very uncertain.:xf:
 
FranzLO said:
Well that is a good start considering that it shows how your efforts and improvement can make up for some earlier poor performances.

I would suggest considering DO or at least learning more about it if you have not but an SMP would be extremely valuable to show that you are able to handle advanced science coursework along with your nutrition experience. I know some students with less than stellar undergraduate success, many examples also being on SDN, that were accepted after their SMP's. It may also be great preparation for medical school in general. Money etc. excluded, there isn't really a reason to rush the process since cycles can be very uncertain.:xf:
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I agree that taking more masters courses to show a strong academic improvement is the best thing you could do to offset your gpa, and that does take time to demonstrate
 
I really doubt any MD program in the US would really consider you. The time that it will take you to get up to the 3.0 range will probably be so long that your MCAT will expire. If I were you, I'd consider trying my luck at a Caribbean program. Even if there's a high attrition rate, you seem to have the ability to overcome that.
 
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TriagePreMed said:
I really doubt any MD program in the US would really consider you. The time that it will take you to get up to the 3.0 range will probably be so long that your MCAT will expire. If I were you, I'd consider trying my luck at a Caribbean program. Even if there's a high attrition rate, you seem to have the ability to overcome that.
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I realize that I may have to swallow my pride and do just that, but I'd rather not until I have no choice. I still have two application cycles before I need to retake the MCAT, and graduate programs aren't meant to pull up your GPA anyway.

CCEMTP said:
I'm in the same boat as you, check this out I found it kinda helpful to at least have an idea of your admission percentage for gpa vs MCAT scores. Best of luck to you.

https://www.aamc.org/download/157958/data/table25-w-mcatgpa-grid-white-0810.pdf.pdf
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Thanks for the link! An 18% chance bleh
This is looking more and more like an SMP is my only option at the moment.
 
tpsreport said:
I realize that I may have to swallow my pride and do just that, but I'd rather not until I have no choice. I still have two application cycles before I need to retake the MCAT, and graduate programs aren't meant to pull up your GPA anyway.

Thanks for the link! An 18% chance bleh
This is looking more and more like an SMP is my only option at the moment.
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Think of it this way: You are currently spending 50k+living expenses on a masters from Columbia that matters very little to applying to med school and what you want to do in life. To top this, you are adding 50k+ more for your next SMP venture. This is to very likely end up in the Caribbean anyway. Unless you already have a strong inclination for a field like Neurosurgery or the like, I'd suggest you stop wasting money and start getting educated in what you really want to do in life.
 
TriagePreMed said:
Think of it this way: You are currently spending 50k+living expenses on a masters from Columbia that matters very little to applying to med school and what you want to do in life. To top this, you are adding 50k+ more for your next SMP venture. This is to very likely end up in the Caribbean anyway. Unless you already have a strong inclination for a field like Neurosurgery or the like, I'd suggest you stop wasting money and start getting educated in what you really want to do in life.
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Very good point. It will be quite a bit of money to pay for an SMP. My current employer has an HR that reimburses classes that contribute towards a degree so I don't feel too bad paying 20k for the nutrition program. Then again 50k will not be terrible compared to the entirety of medical school.
 
The majority of MD-affiliated SMPs have a uGPA requirement of 3.0+. It would take you two additional years of straight-A undergrad coursework to get there.

There are DO-affiliated SMPs with lower cutoffs. You might consider one of them, knowing that it is possible to get accepted into an MD program from a DO SMP (just as the converse is true).
 
PressPforPi said:
You do realize that it's up to you whether or not you incorporate the OMM into your practice right? I'm not trying to attack you so I'm sorry if it's coming off as that way.
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I've only started really doing research into the process in the past few months, but I do realize that there are many many similarities between the allopathic and osteopathic disciplines of medicine, and the line between the two is becoming more and more indistinguishable. I'm not trying to be elitist or willfully ignorant, because obviously I'm not in a position to be choosy. What I had meant was that I was uninterested in pursuing a DO degree. The average accepted GPA and MCAT scores between the two do not differ THAT much anyway.
 
tpsreport said:
I've only started really doing research into the process in the past few months, but I do realize that there are many many similarities between the allopathic and osteopathic disciplines of medicine, and the line between the two is becoming more and more indistinguishable. I'm not trying to be elitist or willfully ignorant, because obviously I'm not in a position to be choosy. What I had meant was that I was uninterested in pursuing a DO degree. The average accepted GPA and MCAT scores between the two do not differ THAT much anyway.
Click to expand...
In hopes of not falling into the trap of MD vs. DO and trying to tell you what to do, I'll add my 2 cents into this: While the US MD degree is the most highly desirable, you have to be realistic about your chances. You agree that both the MD and DO degrees are pretty much the same these days. The difference becomes much smaller when you account for the fact that you can enter an allopathic residency program. The only difference at the end of the day: 1 letter after your name. Does 1 letter truly hold you back from doing everything you want to do? Does 1 letter really push you into going to a 3rd world country and then going to a sub-par residency program?
 
TriagePreMed said:
In hopes of not falling into the trap of MD vs. DO and trying to tell you what to do, I'll add my 2 cents into this: While the US MD degree is the most highly desirable, you have to be realistic about your chances. You agree that both the MD and DO degrees are pretty much the same these days. The difference becomes much smaller when you account for the fact that you can enter an allopathic residency program. The only difference at the end of the day: 1 letter after your name. Does 1 letter truly hold you back from doing everything you want to do? Does 1 letter really push you into going to a 3rd world country and then going to a sub-par residency program?
Click to expand...

I think this is great advice, but OP wants to give it a shot (maybe 2) at a US MD program until the adcom people tells him directly that he can't, which I can totally understand. Best of luck!
 
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14 months later, I'm updating here 🙂

Went to the BU MAMS program, and ended up with a 4.0. Toughest and most rewarding thing I've ever done. I'll be posting a review about this program as soon as I submit my primary today and before secondaries come back. Suffice it to say that I highly recommend BU for those of you who are in a similar situation.

Took an undergrad class in the mean time and got an A, and am currently taking five more undergraduate classes at a local community college to bring up my cGPA and sGPA.

If anyone cares, I'll be providing updates on this as my application progresses.

Good luck everyone!
 
tpsreport said:
14 months later, I'm updating here 🙂

Went to the BU MAMS program, and ended up with a 4.0. Toughest and most rewarding thing I've ever done. I'll be posting a review about this program as soon as I submit my primary today and before secondaries come back. Suffice it to say that I highly recommend BU for those of you who are in a similar situation.

Took an undergrad class in the mean time and got an A, and am currently taking five more undergraduate classes at a local community college to bring up my cGPA and sGPA.

If anyone cares, I'll be providing updates on this as my application progresses.

Good luck everyone!
Click to expand...

Wow excellent work! Where will You be posting your review?
 
Yes do an SMP, for you that is your best bet to get into an MD program, and it will give you time to think about being an MD and other career options.
 
tpsreport said:
14 months later, I'm updating here 🙂

Went to the BU MAMS program, and ended up with a 4.0. Toughest and most rewarding thing I've ever done. I'll be posting a review about this program as soon as I submit my primary today and before secondaries come back. Suffice it to say that I highly recommend BU for those of you who are in a similar situation.

Took an undergrad class in the mean time and got an A, and am currently taking five more undergraduate classes at a local community college to bring up my cGPA and sGPA.

If anyone cares, I'll be providing updates on this as my application progresses.

Good luck everyone!
Click to expand...
Congrats. Maybe it will all work out great in the end.
 
Please update us! Would love to hear how much love you get from MD schools.
 
tpsreport said:
14 months later, I'm updating here 🙂

Went to the BU MAMS program, and ended up with a 4.0. Toughest and most rewarding thing I've ever done. I'll be posting a review about this program as soon as I submit my primary today and before secondaries come back. Suffice it to say that I highly recommend BU for those of you who are in a similar situation.

Took an undergrad class in the mean time and got an A, and am currently taking five more undergraduate classes at a local community college to bring up my cGPA and sGPA.

If anyone cares, I'll be providing updates on this as my application progresses.

Good luck everyone!
Click to expand...

Nice, good luck. I'm looking forward to seeing how your story ends.
 
tpsreport said:
14 months later, I'm updating here 🙂

Went to the BU MAMS program, and ended up with a 4.0. Toughest and most rewarding thing I've ever done. I'll be posting a review about this program as soon as I submit my primary today and before secondaries come back. Suffice it to say that I highly recommend BU for those of you who are in a similar situation.

Took an undergrad class in the mean time and got an A, and am currently taking five more undergraduate classes at a local community college to bring up my cGPA and sGPA.

If anyone cares, I'll be providing updates on this as my application progresses.

Good luck everyone!
Click to expand...
Tell us how it goes! Good luck!
 
Someone didn't read the rest of the thread lol.
 
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List of schools applied to:

Albany
Albert Einstein
BU
Columbia
Cornell
Drexel
Dartmouth
George Washington
Georgetown
Loyola
Mt. Sinai
NYMC
SUNY Downstate
Stony Brook
SUNY Buffalo
SUNY Upstate
Temple
Tufts
Tulane
U Chicago Pritzker
Cornell

Rejected:
Pritzker
Cornell

Secondary on hold for re-review:
GW

Interview:
BU - November 14th
SUNY Upstate - December 5th
Tulane - December 17th


Still in the midst of the application roller coaster ride, fanatically checking my e-mails.
I figured I'd share my current status, since we're about a third of the way through.

Primary were finished mid-July, and most secondaries finished early August. Last secondary was finished first week of September.

Hoping to hear back re: interviews from a few more schools by the end of Feb, and will provide another update around then. :xf:

Best of luck to the others who are in a similar situation reading this 🙂


EDIT:
Got an interview offer on 12/3 at Albany Medical School, scheduled for February 4th.
News should be incoming from two schools within a month. I've chewed my fingernails and fingers down to my elbows from the anxiety.

Adding to list of schools rejected from:
Dartmouth
Georgetown
GW
 
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Congratulations on your interviews! You're almost there!!
 
Hey, I joined this website just to respond to your post... I rarely respond to forums of any kind, but I just wanted you to know I'm hoping all the best for you!

I read your post bc I can totally identify with your situation. I had a terrible GPA for my undergrad. After some maturation, I decided to go back to school and got a 4.0 in my master's program. Now, I'm taking some science pre-reqs to apply for med school... yes, I'll be applying as a nontraditional (later-in-life) student. Anyway, I just wanted to tell you that I'll be checking back to see if (or when, I should say) you're accepted... so please, let us know! Plus, a happy ending for you would give me some much-needed encouragement... and it sounds like you are getting quite close to achieving your goal. Keeping my toes crossed!
 
flodhi1 said:
Congratulations on your interviews! You're almost there!!
Click to expand...

kimeaton said:
Hey, I joined this website just to respond to your post... I rarely respond to forums of any kind, but I just wanted you to know I'm hoping all the best for you!

I read your post bc I can totally identify with your situation. I had a terrible GPA for my undergrad. After some maturation, I decided to go back to school and got a 4.0 in my master's program. Now, I'm taking some science pre-reqs to apply for med school... yes, I'll be applying as a nontraditional (later-in-life) student. Anyway, I just wanted to tell you that I'll be checking back to see if (or when, I should say) you're accepted... so please, let us know! Plus, a happy ending for you would give me some much-needed encouragement... and it sounds like you are getting quite close to achieving your goal. Keeping my toes crossed!
Click to expand...

Thank you guys for the encouragement!

Kimeaton, that's amazing work on your master's program success. Congratulations! I wish you the very best of luck, and sincerely hope that you make it in the end.

I posted this thread initially to beg for help, because I was completely at a loss as to how to approach my MD application. Heck, I was considering econ, law, a PhD, and basically anything and everything else under the sun because I thought my situation hopeless with regards to medical school.

But I gritted my teeth and hung on; I've been dangling by a thread and still am. I love medicine, am hoping against hope that it will work out in the end, next year if not this year. You've no idea how awesome it makes me feel to hear that I'm providing you with encouragement, because that's really why I'm giving updates! Besides tooting my own horn a little bit (because I mean, who on SDN doesn't?), the main reason I'm now sharing my progress is because I'm hoping to give others out there some hope!

SDN is at times a very harsh environment to try and ask for advice, because so many of the people on here are extremely qualified, and are in the 'sweet spot' in terms of competitive statistics (GPA/MCAT/ECs). Though I completely understand if people want to warn others away from wasting time, money, and effort in a fruitless endeavor, it becomes very discouraging to hear the same thing over and over.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not telling everyone with terrible statistics to go ahead and spend tens of thousands in post-bacc/master's programs and thousands more in applying to medical school. I'm here to encourage those who have made the decision to take the plunge, and to hopefully provide a light at the end of a long tunnel.

I'll give it my best and not let you guys down. Feel free to message me with questions, and I'll do my best to get back to you.
 
Congrats on your interviews! I'm so glad I read this thread. You have definitely inspired/encouraged me! I was recently told by a med student that my GPA is too low for MD (I have a 3.45 cum GPA and 3.5 science GPA, haven't taken the MCAT yet).
 
That's crap. I have the same stats and I have 2 interviews. Got a 31 on the MCAT, though.
 
I am in somewhat of a similar boat. By the end of this fall semester (of my senior year), My GPA should be just above a 3.0. I haven't yet taken the MCAT, but I intend to kill it. I have about 100h volunteering experience and have shadowed several times.

The difficulty now is deciding whether to stay in undergrad or to go on to graduate school. The question with graduate school is only what to study. What exactly is an SMP? How would it play into my pre medical education?

I too am extremely encouraged to see a story like this. Video games and irregular sleeping schedules have been the bane of my college success. I have considered everything under the sun from Law to Physician's assistant, but it seems that being and MD is the only career for which I know I'll have a passion. You sound a lot like me OP. Keep us updated!!
 
Leefa said:
I am in somewhat of a similar boat. By the end of this fall semester (of my senior year), My GPA should be just above a 3.0. I haven't yet taken the MCAT, but I intend to kill it. I have about 100h volunteering experience and have shadowed several times.

The difficulty now is deciding whether to stay in undergrad or to go on to graduate school. The question with graduate school is only what to study. What exactly is an SMP? How would it play into my pre medical education?

I too am extremely encouraged to see a story like this. Video games and irregular sleeping schedules have been the bane of my college success. I have considered everything under the sun from Law to Physician's assistant, but it seems that being and MD is the only career for which I know I'll have a passion. You sound a lot like me OP. Keep us updated!!
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Basically a useless masters for purposes other than medical school. If you get a good GPA 3.7+, consider your undergraduate GPA irrelevant. If you do poorly, consider yourself done from all MD schools forever.
 
Hey everyone!

Here's my latest update:


Interview offers:
Boston University (interviewed 11/14) --- Who knows?
SUNY Upstate [in state] (12/5) -- ACCEPTED on Monday. ! YES YES YES YESJSDJHJLHSLDKHFKLSJHFKLBSKLBFSLD
Tulane (12/17) - Wait listed today, on 1/11. Will withdraw.
Albany Medical (2/4) - Withdrew application pre-interview.

Still waiting to hear back from BU! No news today as of yet, although a bunch of people on the BU thread have gotten in. It appears that it depends on who the interviewer is/whether he or she has time today. Spoke with my advisor who has been nothing but best mentor and support at MAMS since I started, and was told that I would most likely be wait-listed.

After two years of not knowing whether I'll ever be able to pursue my dream of becoming a doctor, I've finally been fortunate enough to be granted a chance.

It still hasn't hit me yet. I'm still commuting to work and going to bed at a reasonable hour. It feels no different, and sort of anti-climactic haha. But I did fall asleep Monday night with a Littmann stethoscope that I got for my birthday around my neck LOL

I hope that I can be of some help to others who are in a similar situation that I was in two years ago. It's been a long journey, but this was totally worth it. To anyone down in the dumps about whether or not they have a shot, just remember: you can do it if you give it your all. We've all made mistakes, and no one's perfect. If adcoms can see that you're ready and serious about giving your life to medicine and that this is your passion, it will go a long way! Feel free to message me if you have questions. I'll be glad to help 🙂

Thank all of you on SDN who've been so helpful, supportive, and encouraging. Psst I'm talking about you GujuDoc! Your advice has been invaluable.

I'll keep myself on BU's wait list until their second and final wave of decisions in March, and will update if there's more good news 🙂

Meanwhile I'm gonna party it up like 1999
 
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somefun said:
Wow, congratulations! Really shows you how one bad piece of an application doesn't make you a bad applicant. 37 was, however, always nearly impossible for me lol. I can't imagine how much you must have studied for the mcat. I'm inspired.

if you don't mind me asking, did you send SUNY upstate a letter of interest/update post-interview (or any form of communication after your interview) before you got the acceptance? I'm trying to figure out if it's customary for an applicant to tell the school how much they liked their interview day. thanks
Click to expand...

Other than a ton of nail biting, nothing. Feel free to send thank you letters after your interview if you want to. I didn't.
My fall term grades were released too late to send it in before the app, but it's up to you what you want to send to each school. If you think you'll get an interview, just send it afterwards. If you think it's a reach school, I'd send it pre-interview.
 
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Congrats dude this is so good to hear. I am in a similar boat but don't have a stellar MCAT like you. Decent, but not stellar. After I finish my post Bacc this year I hope I can get into an MD program as well. If not, ill go the SMP route and try again!
 
Catalystik said:
Congrats!
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Thanks!

SixStringPsych said:
Congrats dude this is so good to hear. I am in a similar boat but don't have a stellar MCAT like you. Decent, but not stellar. After I finish my post Bacc this year I hope I can get into an MD program as well. If not, ill go the SMP route and try again!
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Thanks dude!
Best of luck in your post-bacc and your app cycle 😎
 
That is so awesome! Congratulations tpsreport and thank you for updating the forum with your news!
 
Absolutely fantastic and inspiring. I'm in exactly the same boat as you. After your response to my thread ,I've read your posts about your situation and it has been so great to see your success. You've given me hope to keep on moving forward. Congratulations on your acceptance!!
 
Illustrates the value of a good MS program, and MCAT. I will have to remember these schools as examples to point to for other people who have successfully reinvented themselves like you did.

Cograts and good luck!

tpsreport said:
Hey everyone!

Here's my latest update:


Interview offers:
Boston University (interviewed 11/14) --- Who knows?
SUNY Upstate [in state] (12/5) -- ACCEPTED on Monday. ! YES YES YES YESJSDJHJLHSLDKHFKLSJHFKLBSKLBFSLD
Tulane (12/17) - Wait listed today, on 1/11. Will withdraw.
Albany Medical (2/4) - Withdrew application pre-interview.
Click to expand...
 
This is really inspiring! Congrats on your success!
 
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