I know this has been done to death but...

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What would you pick?

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rockclock

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I have 5 hours to send in a decision...could use the moral support:

1) Columbia for $350k

or

2) UCLA for $265k

Thanks guys!
 
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Agreed. That's what I expected...jsut wanted to make sure all the sleep I've lost wasn't getting to me haha
 
rockclock said:
Agreed. That's what I expected...jsut wanted to make sure all the sleep I've lost wasn't getting to me haha
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U crazy! UCLA by far. Both are equally "well-known" schools and one is cheaper. You aren't losing out at all.

Congrats btw.👍
 
rockclock said:
Agreed. That's what I expected...jsut wanted to make sure all the sleep I've lost wasn't getting to me haha
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Rockclock do you mind if I ask you what your stats are? GPA/sGPA/BCP/DATscore?
 
sure. don't wanna pin things down because everyone know what school im going to now, but 3.75+ GPA and 23+ DAT
 
Many thanks for that.
Just need the LC now to go with them....
 
I think the result speaks for itself. You will love living in LA.
 
UBDent19 said:
Hey, my brother-in-law works for the circus (Cirque du Soleil). He clears six figures and he doesn't even have to pay for a place to live. Not a bad option. 😀
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Cirque de Soleil is far from any general circus act you'd see from a regular circus; what they do is for the most part amazing. That six figure salary is well earned!
 
PreD said:
I think the result speaks for itself. You will love living in LA.
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Word. Yeah ucla up 10 to 1 basically says it all. LA will be a great time...not that NYC wouldn't have been but Columbia's not exactly close to all the action. PLus how can you go wrong with the beautiful women at UCLA. Answer...you can't haha.
 
rickblas said:
Cirque de Soleil is far from any general circus act you'd see from a regular circus; what they do is for the most part amazing. That six figure salary is well earned!
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Haha hello tangent...but Cirque du Soleil is legit! Regardless of what that kind of work is worth it's something maybe a couple hundred people in the country could pull off well. pretty effing amazing when you think about it.
 
rickblas said:
Cirque de Soleil is far from any general circus act you'd see from a regular circus; what they do is for the most part amazing. That six figure salary is well earned!
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Yeah, some of the main acts must make alot of money. I went to vegas recently and saw those two muscle man balance on each other. Incredible strength, and they are one of the headlining acts. Noone else can do it. I would vouch they probably make those 6 figures.
 
Rainee said:
Yeah, some of the main acts must make alot of money. I went to vegas recently and saw those two muscle man balance on each other. Incredible strength, and they are one of the headlining acts. Noone else can do it. I would vouch they probably make those 6 figures.
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Ya those guys are amazing! I have seen both "O" and "Mystere"... insane!!! I seriously don't think i will see a better show in my life... Nothing has even come remotely close to either of those performances.
 
rockclock said:
Word. Yeah ucla up 10 to 1 basically says it all. LA will be a great time...not that NYC wouldn't have been but Columbia's not exactly close to all the action. PLus how can you go wrong with the beautiful women at UCLA. Answer...you can't haha.
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Just don't be disappointed when you get to LA, because honestly, living in LA sucks. Especially if you have school, you won't want to go out at all because it is energy draining and too time consuming. You need to have a car to get around to places without sweating like a pig, and traffic jam makes a 5 mile trip into an hour ride in the city.

Go to UCLA because it is cheaper. Not because of the city. In all seriousness, I guarantee you NYC will have much more to offer even though Columbia is not in the city itself. It will be more accessible as well.

Girls are alright. USC girls > UCLA girls by far, though. Sadly 🙁

Good luck at UCLA 🙂
 
Although it doesn't matter because you already decided, but UCLA. I really enjoyed UCLA and wish I had gotten some money to attend there. The weather there seems amazing. Warm winters and not extremely hot summers. Perfect if you ask me.
 
Rainee said:
Yeah, some of the main acts must make alot of money. I went to vegas recently and saw those two muscle man balance on each other. Incredible strength, and they are one of the headlining acts. Noone else can do it. I would vouch they probably make those 6 figures.
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Back in the day, I recall seeing a very similar act for free at Circus Circus in Reno. Also back then, they would have those 2 giant hamster wheels and a motorcycle driving around in a caged sphere. Back then = 1998.

Of course that's all gone. Now it costs $60 to see the same thing in Vegas 👎
 
what are the match stats like at UCLA?
 
Maygyver said:
Although it doesn't matter because you already decided, but UCLA. I really enjoyed UCLA and wish I had gotten some money to attend there. The weather there seems amazing. Warm winters and not extremely hot summers. Perfect if you ask me.
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where you planning to go gyver?
 
kitejunky27 said:
what are the match stats like at UCLA?
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Same as columbia's actually. I checked the PDF Columbia hands out and the last four years of annual reports from UCLA and each put 67 students into OMFS or Ortho over the last four years. Columbia is more OMFS heavy and UCLA is more Ortho heavy but those are the top two competitive specialties, so it's not like the schools aren't on par with each other. UCLA and Columbia students are gonna see a lot of each other on the specialty interview trail in all likelihood.
 
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rockclock said:
Same as columbia's actually. I checked the PDF Columbia hands out and the last four years of annual reports from UCLA and each put 67 students into OMFS or Ortho over the last four years. Columbia is more OMFS heavy and UCLA is more Ortho heavy but those are the top two competitive specialties, so it's not like the schools aren't on par with each other. UCLA and Columbia students are gonna see a lot of each other on the specialty interview trail in all likelihood.
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Columbia has a little bit better placement stats. Columbia puts a bunch into Pedo, Ortho and OMFS. UCLA is more so Ortho. UCLA's stats are available in their annual report.

I'm planning to go to Columbia. Although UCLA was a very, very close second.
 
Maygyver said:
Columbia has a little bit better placement stats. Columbia puts a bunch into Pedo, Ortho and OMFS. UCLA is more so Ortho. UCLA's stats are available in their annual report.

I'm planning to go to Columbia. Although UCLA was a very, very close second.
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yeah i just said i checked the last four annual reports. in-state tuition and an extra $30k off the top made ucla a very, very close first though. good luck at columbia! Maybe I'll buy myself a GT-R at graduation and call it even haha! jk
 
rockclock said:
yeah i just said i checked the last four annual reports. in-state tuition and an extra $30k off the top made ucla a very, very close first though. good luck at columbia! Maybe I'll buy myself a GT-R at graduation and call it even haha! jk
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Haha yeah. Instate makes UCLA definitely worth it, even if it's just a little bit. California's budget scares me though. But yeah, the Columbia comment was directed at dentalworks but I was too lazy to multi quote. 😉

Anyway, to anyone else who reads this, I went ahead and looked up the placement numbers just to save people time. These are for last year:

UCLA/Columbia
Prosth: 3/2
GPR/AEGD: 33/26
Oral surgery: 7 (1 oral surgery internship)/9
Ortho: 13/10
Pedo: 5/14
Perio: 3/3
 
so5ro0.png


Sources:
http://dental.columbia.edu/education/post_doc_place.html
http://www.dentistry.ucla.edu:8000/Dentistry/about-us/reports/publications
 
Maygyver said:
California's budget scares me though.
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yeah that occurred to me too, but Columbia's four-year budget went up $10k over last year...UCLA even as bad as things are in sacramento only went up about $7k I think. Still ucla is NEVER going to be more expensive than columbia. period.
 
rockclock said:
yeah that occurred to me too, but Columbia's four-year budget went up $10k over last year...UCLA even as bad as things are in sacramento only went up about $7k I think. Still ucla is NEVER going to be more expensive than columbia. period.
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Yeah, that's what I think too, but the whole "UC tuition might double next year" article scared me. Even though obviously the grad won't go up that much, it's still frightening.
 
Pennywisdom said:
Endo is notoriously difficult to get into.
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Apparantly...

I wonder why that is... I used to think ortho and omfs are the most difficult to land. Until I started paying attention to how many fresh graduates get into endo and I was like "whoa 😱"
 
i think its more like not as many people want to do endo

top 3 most competitive specialties are OS, Ortho and Peds i heard.
 
Pennywisdom said:
Endo is notoriously difficult to get into.
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not necessarily. it's because there is a wanning interest in the field (some might even say it's dying).

endo programs frequently prefer people with GPR or actual work experience. Hence, the #'s fresh out of school are going to seem lower since they do not account for those who end up in endo later. at least that is my understanding.

also, columbia matched 14-15 into ortho this year. take that UCLA!!!! (JK).
 
flapaTron said:
not necessarily. it's because there is a wanning interest in the field (some might even say it's dying).

endo programs frequently prefer people with GPR or actual work experience. Hence, the #'s fresh out of school are going to seem lower since they do not account for those who end up in endo later. at least that is my understanding.

also, columbia matched 14-15 into ortho this year. take that UCLA!!!! (JK).
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That makes sense.

Why do you think there is a dying interest in the field? I mean, it seems intriguing, low overhead cost, and the docs are compensated well.
 
flapaTron said:
not necessarily. it's because there is a wanning interest in the field (some might even say it's dying).

endo programs frequently prefer people with GPR or actual work experience. Hence, the #'s fresh out of school are going to seem lower since they do not account for those who end up in endo later. at least that is my understanding.

also, columbia matched 14-15 into ortho this year. take that UCLA!!!! (JK).
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Yes.
 
dentalWorks said:
Why do you think there is a dying interest in the field? I mean, it seems intriguing, low overhead cost, and the docs are compensated well.
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it's not to say that all those things you list aren't attractive, they most certainly are ideal. however, one could argue that the viability (perhaps not the best word) is decreasing in the eyes of consumers. RCT always has a risk of failure, with a subsequent solution of placing an implant. sometimes, when given the choice, a patient my just skip RCT and opt for an extraction and place an implant, depending on the severity of the case.

(again, i'm not an endodontist, please feel free to correct me).
 
flapaTron said:
it's not to say that all those things you list aren't attractive, they most certainly are ideal. however, one could argue that the viability (perhaps not the best word) is decreasing in the eyes of consumers. RCT always has a risk of failure, with a subsequent solution of placing an implant. sometimes, when given the choice, a patient my just skip RCT and opt for an extraction and place an implant, depending on the severity of the case.

(again, i'm not an endodontist, please feel free to correct me).
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I just spent the last couple hours reading about this... many dentists are saying the same thing.... with the advancement of implant technologies, everyones jumping ship. Endos are even being encouraged to learn implants lol. There will always be a place for endos, its just their opportunity to make interesting/expensive cases is going to decrease because the procedures are sometimes just as costly as putting in a new implant.

I am not a dental professional yet, but I think there is no substitute to natural teeth... Extraction should only be a last resort.
 
Hey flapa, do you per chance have all of Columbia's numbers for this year's placement?
 
flapaTron said:
not necessarily. it's because there is a wanning interest in the field (some might even say it's dying).

endo programs frequently prefer people with GPR or actual work experience. Hence, the #'s fresh out of school are going to seem lower since they do not account for those who end up in endo later. at least that is my understanding.

also, columbia matched 14-15 into ortho this year. take that UCLA!!!! (JK).
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did that columbia spike in ortho put a dent in the omfs numbers? like i said, in the last four years, (OMFS+Ortho)@Columbia = (OMFS+Ortho)@UCLA = 67. it seems like omfs and ortho both demand the most qualified applicants, so swings one way or the other year to year just depend on the preferences of the graduating class/culture of the school...
 
rockclock said:
did that columbia spike in ortho put a dent in the omfs numbers? like i said, in the last four years, (OMFS+Ortho)@Columbia = (OMFS+Ortho)@UCLA = 67. it seems like omfs and ortho both demand the most qualified applicants, so swings one way or the other year to year just depend on the preferences of the graduating class/culture of the school...
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while your latter statement is true, people who go into ortho vs oms are two different animals (literally). i would argue that # of applicants to either do not influence each other simply because the residencies are tremendously different. trust me, after 2 years of dental school, you'll start to look fondly on residencies that are 9-5.... 😉
 
Maygyver said:
Hey flapa, do you per chance have all of Columbia's numbers for this year's placement?
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they should be published on the home page of the college of dental medicine shortly.

rumor also has it that the c/o 2014 had the highest DAT scores in the country for the 3rd consecutive year 👍. you crazy predents keep stepping up the game bigtime.... 😱
 
Actually now that I look at it closer...

For 2010, Columbia matched 33 of its graduates into OMFS, Ortho and Peds.... Thats like a 1/3 of the class getting into the more difficult specialties. You can also assume, these 33's CAN'T all be at the top of the class, so there is something else (aside from class rank) about this school that makes its applicants more attractive towards specialties.

I wonder how other dental schools are. I bet their numbers are no where near, or they'd post them lol
 
flapaTron said:
they should be published on the home page of the college of dental medicine shortly.

rumor also has it that the c/o 2014 had the highest DAT scores in the country for the 3rd consecutive year 👍. you crazy predents keep stepping up the game bigtime.... 😱
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you mean 2015? Yeah no doubt...sdn alone has three 27's that got into Columbia. (tho uclaDDS101 is headed to harvard, don't know about the other two).

And i completely agree that OMFS and Ortho are vastly different animals. I'm just saying that the class size is a given, and the portion of the class capable of matching omfs+ortho+pedo is fairly consistent year to year since the admissions committee uses the same criteria to pick the best applicants every year. so if you have a banner year in ortho, for example, you'd expect somewhat fewer OMFS, pedo, etc. not because they "converted" to ortho but because that's just what that particular class had a preference for. kind of a zero sum game between the different specialties since the total pool that's going to go into the most competitive specialties is more or less fixed.
 
dentalWorks said:
Actually now that I look at it closer...

For 2010, Columbia matched 33 of its graduates into OMFS, Ortho and Peds.... Thats like a 1/3 of the class getting into the more difficult specialties. You can also assume, these 33's CAN'T all be at the top of the class, so there is something else (aside from class rank) about this school that makes its applicants more attractive towards specialties.

I wonder how other dental schools are. I bet their numbers are no where near, or they'd post them lol
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columbia ranks into thirds and ucla doesn't rank. school name plays a factor not because of "prestige" per se but because specialty programs that currently have hardvard, columbia, ucla, etc. graduates have seen how succesful they've been and that speaks highly of these respective DDS programs. Specialties are going to look highly upon a Columbia, etc. applicant if columbia grads have done well in their program in the past.
 
rockclock said:
columbia ranks into thirds and ucla doesn't rank. school name plays a factor not because of "prestige" per se but because specialty programs that currently have hardvard, columbia, ucla, etc. graduates have seen how succesful they've been and that speaks highly of these respective DDS programs. Specialties are going to look highly upon a Columbia, etc. applicant if columbia grads have done well in their program in the past.
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thirds? you mean there are only 3 categories you fall into? 1, 2, or last?....
 
dentalWorks said:
thirds? you mean there are only 3 categories you fall into? 1, 2, or last?....
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that's how i understood it: top third, middle third, bottom third. great for the guy who's 32nd in a class of 100, sucks for the guy who's 67th. flapa can correct me if i'm wrong.
 
yes columbia ranks into thirds.

the notion of prestige, however, is subjective at best.
 
Right. "prestige" is for pre-dents who like the ego-stroke or somehow think that 10 letters on their degree will outweigh 4 years of ball-busting work. having past graduates from your school do well at specality programs has to be viewed in a positive light, however, and confer some (albeit small) advantage.
 
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