A Call to Change the Sad/Sadistic Mentality of the SDN:Pre-Allo Board

Started by el poblano
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el poblano

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So I had a realization. In all honesty, unless things change I won't share with pre-meds in the future the existence of SDN. Heres why:
I only recently discovered SDN at all. This was a few months ago- after I had submitted my app, but before I was accepted. At first I was ecstatic- I thought I had found a collection of like minded individuals: people excited to study medicine and help others along the way. While I posted infrequently, I lurked the forums religiously; I read as much as I could on a daily basis. However, little by little I began to realize something: while there are some truly helpful people (both pre-meds and people like LizzyM), the vast majority are douche-bags with an itchy trollol finger whom apparently relish every opportunity to say things like, "OP you're an idiot, give up," or, "With that 3.5 don't expect anything better than DO or Carib."
Heres the thing: had I found SDN before I submitted my app, and had I taken seriously the things written here, I might never have submitted at all. Admittedly, I made plenty of mistakes in my app: I certainly could have refined my essays, I submitted my primary in September, I didn't apply broadly, etc.. All things which I should have/would have changed had I known better. BUT.... I made it anyway! I'm convinced that had I asked the forum what to do in September, people would have said give up on this year and try again next time. The thing is, I'm not a perfect person, and you don't need to be a perfect person to be accepted.
Heres the point, or more like what I'd like to say to those new pre-meds who just found SDN: you CAN do it! Sure it is hard, but with hard work and dedication you will make it! Don't listen to the naysayers who will tell you that one mistake on your app is going to keep you from becoming a doctor. Try your best- the adcoms can recognize hard work!
This is a call to other members- let's make SDN a help to the pre-meds in need of guidance, but without the holier-than-thou attitude.
Thoughts?
 
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blonde hair don't care.


Words on a page bud. If it hurt your feeling ask your mom/friends for advice.

I've noticed that people are a lot more blunt and honest --

but you need to see the different viewpoints (even the ones you disagree with).
 
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It's called tough love, OP. SDN made me paranoid so I turned in my app as soon as possible, worked quickly and diligently on my secondaries, and prepped like crazy for my interviews. End result - I'll be matriculating next year despite mediocre stats. I actually wish I read the forums more during UG....might have gotten a higher GPA and MCAT.
 
I noticed this too, and was actually thinking of making a thread about this. But I knew it would just be followed up with a bunch of sadistic remarks. Whatever... Some people are extremely rude on this site.
 
flatearth22 said:
It's called tough love, OP. SDN made me paranoid so I turned in my app as soon as possible, worked quickly and diligently on my secondaries, and prepped like crazy for my interviews. End result - I'll be matriculating next year despite mediocre stats. I actually wish I read the forums more during UG....might have gotten a higher GPA and MCAT.
Click to expand...


exactly.

Someone might have called me out for being a r-**** my freshman year -- it would have been nice. 😡
 
1. This is the internet.

2. You need to weed through garbage to find useful info.

3. If you are going to believe everything you hear from every anonymous poster online, then you are an idiot. Also, ref: #2
 
StoicJosher said:
1. This is the internet.

2. You need to weed through garbage to find useful info.

3. If you are going to believe everything you hear from every anonymous poster online, then you are an idiot. Also, ref: #2
Click to expand...

Straight and to the point. Is this what you're referring to OP? Cause there's nothing trollish about these statements. While there are real trolls too, that just comes with anonymity and it won't stop unless SDN requires people to register with their AAMC # or something.
 
I have to say I mostly agree with you, OP. I find very little sincerity in most of these posts, those I do like the posts on my school-specific forum and in the non-trad forum. I think pre-meds in general have a lot of anxiety, have to make themselves feel better than everyone else, and are working with limited control of their future. Those are all hard positions to be in and can manifest themselves in less than nice discussion on an internet forum. I don't think it makes them bad people....just....insensitive?

I took the MCAT in August and promptly left that evening for a long road trip through South Dakota, applied in September, got married in October, honeymooned in Hawaii, interviewed in November, and got accepted. I took the MCAT once and only applied to one school. Had I listened to "advice," I never would have applied because I would have assumed you have to take the April MCAT, take it several times, and apply to 10+ schools all around the county (actually, that's exactly why I didn't apply straight out of undergrad). I'm living proof that you don't have to follow the traditional recipe to find success.
 
SDN definitely has a mindf*ck aspect to it. I wish I'd have found it earlier because my first app was a complete waste of time and nobody ever told me that. On the other hand, over time it caused me a lot of doubt and stress when I noticed that everyone in my situation was advised to retake basically all of undergrad and apply DO - I'm glad I listened to my real life mentors instead. And knowing when my letter might have been in the mail never made it come faster.

Every resident I know says they gave it up in med school because it's impossible to be happy while second-guessing every little thing. I plan to do the same.

Overall, as a premed, my advisor was very vague and my parents were clueless so the facts were good. Choosing which opinion to listen to is hard. Maybe new users ought to get a 'LizzyM's Greatest Hits' list to point them in the right direction before they read their first 'Only 42/3.99 - Harvard out of reach?! 🙁' troll thread.
 
NES10111 said:
I have to say I mostly agree with you, OP. I find very little sincerity in most of these posts, those I do like the posts on my school-specific forum and in the non-trad forum. I think pre-meds in general have a lot of anxiety, have to make themselves feel better than everyone else, and are working with limited control of their future. Those are all hard positions to be in and can manifest themselves in less than nice discussion on an internet forum. I don't think it makes them bad people....just....insensitive?

I took the MCAT in August and promptly left that evening for a long road trip through South Dakota, applied in September, got married in October, honeymooned in Hawaii, interviewed in November, and got accepted. I took the MCAT once and only applied to one school. Had I listened to "advice," I never would have applied because I would have assumed you have to take the April MCAT, take it several times, and apply to 10+ schools all around the county (actually, that's exactly why I didn't apply straight out of undergrad). I'm living proof that you don't have to follow the traditional recipe to find success.
Click to expand...

But what state are you from?

Something like that would rarely occur successfully in a state such a california. Why risk taking 2 years off and being a reapplicant? IMO that is good sound advice to increase your odds of matriculation.
 
NES10111 said:
I have to say I mostly agree with you, OP. I find very little sincerity in most of these posts, those I do like the posts on my school-specific forum and in the non-trad forum. I think pre-meds in general have a lot of anxiety, have to make themselves feel better than everyone else, and are working with limited control of their future. Those are all hard positions to be in and can manifest themselves in less than nice discussion on an internet forum. I don't think it makes them bad people....just....insensitive?

I took the MCAT in August and promptly left that evening for a long road trip through South Dakota, applied in September, got married in October, honeymooned in Hawaii, interviewed in November, and got accepted. I took the MCAT once and only applied to one school. Had I listened to "advice," I never would have applied because I would have assumed you have to take the April MCAT, take it several times, and apply to 10+ schools all around the county (actually, that's exactly why I didn't apply straight out of undergrad). I'm living proof that you don't have to follow the traditional recipe to find success.
Click to expand...

Firstly, good for you for getting into medical school in a pretty relaxed fashion.

Secondly, I am sure there is a person out there who got into medical school with a 3.2 GPA. But that doesn't mean everyone applying should be satisfied with a 3.2 GPA. There are rules and there are exceptions. You were an exception. The rules are there for a reason. So when people say take the May MCAT, apply early, aim to be complete early, apply broadly etc, that is to help people increase their chances of getting in medical school and is good advice with regards to getting into medical school. The rule exists for a reason. Which brings me back to my last point:

StoicJosher said:
1. This is the internet.

2. You need to weed through garbage to find useful info.

3. If you are going to believe everything you hear from every anonymous poster online, then you are an idiot. Also, ref: #2
Click to expand...
 
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scarshapedstar said:
Every resident I know says they gave it up in med school because it's impossible to be happy while second-guessing every little thing. I plan to do the same.

Overall, as a premed, my advisor was very vague and my parents were clueless so the facts were good. Choosing which opinion to listen to is hard. Maybe new users ought to get a 'LizzyM's Greatest Hits' list to point them in the right direction before they read their first 'Only 42/3.99 - Harvard out of reach?! 🙁' troll thread.
Click to expand...


This is spot on. SDN is full of great information, for sure. But I find the second-guessing every single little tiny thing to be hard to handle. We're all in this boat together - sending out applicants to the best of our ability and then hoping that we've "proven" to someone that we are worthy of an acceptance. I figure instead of giving each other even more grief, SDN should be a forum of camaraderie and support.
 
Article-2-Obama-change.jpg
 
^ dude you need to resize those pics. and to the OP get some thicker skin brah, cause i bet the rude comments are quadrupled in med school.
 
^^^'

:eyebrow:


we should change corporate culture on wall street while we're at it! Together, with our imagination and a little pinch of magic, we can fix anything our little hearts desire!!111!!

But in all honesty, sometimes information has to be blunt to get a point across and denote importance.

If you want to be the "exception," go right ahead. Just don't count on it working out so perfectly. Admissions are extremely competitive these days, why wouldn't you give yourself all the opportunities to increase your odds of matriculation? I just don't get it.
 
I'm glad I found SDN before I submitted my app this cycle. Reading some of the posts in the forums definitely did make me neurotic, but at the same time, it helped make my application as best as it could be. So it's not all bad imo. And as others have said, there are people here who are genuinely interested in helping us. There's also a lot of camaraderie in some of the school-specific threads. 🙂
 
StoicJosher said:
1. This is the internet.
Click to expand...

This argument is only valid if you also argue that anonymity justifies animosity. As a community of 'professionals' we should be better than the average /b/ user- especially amongst our own.


Sent from my PG86100 using Tapatalk
 
flatearth22 said:
It's called tough love, OP. SDN made me paranoid so I turned in my app as soon as possible, worked quickly and diligently on my secondaries, and prepped like crazy for my interviews. End result - I'll be matriculating next year despite mediocre stats. I actually wish I read the forums more during UG....might have gotten a higher GPA and MCAT.
Click to expand...


This.

I have been on this website since my senior year of high school and it has done nothing but bolster me as an applicant for medical school (with great results). SDN is as productive as an online forum can get.

Now, the more time you spend on SDN the less beneficial it becomes. Most people follow this path Pre-Allopathic--->MCAT Thread---->WAMC----->School Specific---->Allopathic
Spending too much time in any one part of this online forum is just a waste of time.


Note: "The class of ...." threads should be shut down or moved to the lounge. They offer no benefits what so ever.
 
Techmed07 said:
Note: "The class of ...." threads should be shut down or moved to the lounge. They offer no benefits what so ever.
Click to expand...

I wish I could delete the one post I made because now the 2016 thread is bumped to the top of my list every time I open the mobile app. Please tell me they lock the damn thing in August.
 
I understand what you mean, but what you have to realize is that sites like SDN and College Confidential tends to attract some seriously ego-driven, somewhat neurotic persons.
 
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el poblano said:
So I had a realization. In all honesty, unless things change I won't share with pre-meds in the future the existence of SDN. Heres why:
I only recently discovered SDN at all. This was a few months ago- after I had submitted my app, but before I was accepted. At first I was ecstatic- I thought I had found a collection of like minded individuals: people excited to study medicine and help others along the way. While I posted infrequently, I lurked the forums religiously; I read as much as I could on a daily basis. However, little by little I began to realize something: while there are some truly helpful people (both pre-meds and people like LizzyM), the vast majority are douche-bags with an itchy trollol finger whom apparently relish every opportunity to say things like, "OP you're an idiot, give up," or, "With that 3.5 don't expect anything better than DO or Carib."
Heres the thing: had I found SDN before I submitted my app, and had I taken seriously the things written here, I might never have submitted at all. Admittedly, I made plenty of mistakes in my app: I certainly could have refined my essays, I submitted my primary in September, I didn't apply broadly, etc.. All things which I should have/would have changed had I known better. BUT.... I made it anyway! I'm convinced that had I asked the forum what to do in September, people would have said give up on this year and try again next time. The thing is, I'm not a perfect person, and you don't need to be a perfect person to be accepted.
Heres the point, or more like what I'd like to say to those new pre-meds who just found SDN: you CAN do it! Sure it is hard, but with hard work and dedication you will make it! Don't listen to the naysayers who will tell you that one mistake on your app is going to keep you from becoming a doctor. Try your best- the adcoms can recognize hard work!
This is a call to other members- let's make SDN a help to the pre-meds in need of guidance, but without the holier-than-thou attitude.
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
You may have made it without being "perfect", but a lot of people don't. About 50% of people who apply for US allo won't get in. So knowing from this community what the consensus approach is can be helpful. There are plenty of people who shoot out med school applications on a whim, without putting their best foot forward, and damage their future chances.

I agree with the notion of needing a much thicker skin in medicine. This is not a career where people are going to prop you up and tell you you are great 24/7. This is a career where you are going to be beat down in terms of hours, workload, etc, so they can build you back up.
 
StoicJosher said:
1. This is the internet.

2. You need to weed through garbage to find useful info.

3. If you are going to believe everything you hear from every anonymous poster online, then you are an idiot. Also, ref: #2
Click to expand...

OP, I was an exception to the rule as well. I was a non-trad applicant with a lower MCAT (GPA was actually fine). I lurked SDN for quite some time before joining, and after seeing advice on SDN, I knew that my chances were slim at my state school (preference).

I did apply broadly and got multiple acceptances (surprisingly). I would have preferred to score higher on the MCAT, but truly did NOT want to take it again. So, I went with my gut and took my chances. This is where I think StoicJosher is correct. UG as a pre-med IS tough. I had many family members and friends that were skeptical when I first started. If I had listened to them, I would have changed majors to something "more realistic". At some point you just have to sift through the advice on here, keep what you need, and chuck what isn't for you.
 
StoicJosher said:
1. This is the internet.

2. You need to weed through garbage to find useful info.

3. If you are going to believe everything you hear from every anonymous poster online, then you are an idiot. Also, ref: #2
Click to expand...

This is spot on.

I would just emphasize that SDN is just an additional resource in addition to friends/advisors and everything else.

You have to be thick skinned on internet forums for several reasons. One of the major benefits of SDN, for me at least, is that people have prompted me to think about a few questions that I otherwise wouldn't have thought of. Sometimes these questions are even prompted by d-bags and trolls. Once you start incorporating diverse feedback from others in your life and even others on SDN in the process of answering these questions, I think you will find yourself much more knowledgeable in the end. My $0.02.
 
There's a difference between "tough love" and just being an insecure douche.

I think what the OP is referring too isn't the constructive criticism and tough love that is dished out, but the obnoxious, snide remarks o many SDN members feel the need to add to their posts. (I've been guilty of this before no doubt). It's easy to make the excuse of "oh, i'm just blunt...." but i'll tell ya, it won't make you friends in the real world (and doesn't really make you friends here).

For example, are comments like "learn how to spell" really necessary? Do you really know happy, successful people who add "you might want to learn the difference between their and there LOL" to their advice? While you see this sort of thing all over the place, its particularly rampant here.

For every one of you who said how useful this board has been, there are probably many who have missed out on that benefit because they've been too afraid of their posts being ripped to threads. Maybe they need to grow thicker skins, but this is a tough process, maybe they should be cut a little slack.
 
Being a public forum, SDN is surprisingly useful and beneficial. We do have a "community-like" attitude, and that's a good thing, otherwise it would be pretty mundane and boring here, and I'd imagine some of the great users on here (Catalystic, LizzyM, etc.) wouldn't post as often.

You start filtering out what people post (things that don't break the TOS, I mean), then where does it stop? We'd be limited to precisely specific topics, and we'd probably drive down the number of active users on SDN.
 
Stumpyman said:
Being a public forum, SDN is surprisingly useful and beneficial. We do have a "community-like" attitude, and that's a good thing, otherwise it would be pretty mundane and boring here, and I'd imagine some of the great users on here (Catalystic, LizzyM, etc.) wouldn't post as often.

You start filtering out what people post (things that don't break the TOS, I mean), then where does it stop? We'd be limited to precisely specific topics, and we'd probably drive down the number of active users on SDN.
Click to expand...

QFT. I literally spent about 4 months on here just lurking and reading various threads. I love that everyone here is so blunt, because I like hearing things straight without a sugar coat. Thanks to these forums I know what I have to do in the next 2-3 years so I can go to med school and prosper.

I think that the best thing for people who are getting offended by some of the replies here is to use the search button. Sorry to say, but i doubt you are the first person here on SDN to ask what are your chances with a X.XX GPA and XX MCAT. Dig in to the archives here and see what people did and didn't do before asking questions that have answered 100 times already.
 
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You take the good with the bad, but reading these forums is ultimately beneficial and helps you learn how to be real with yourself in terms of chances at various schools.

MCAT forums are awesome too. Honestly, can you imagine if SDN were a community where everyone encouraged each other all the time like your elementary school teachers? "Great job OP, I know you have a 3.2/28, but why NOT you? Go for HYSHopkins!" That being said, there are certain people who write downright mean things but hey, like many have said, it is the internet. If you take what people say on a forum to heart, the real world will be exponentially harder to deal with.

tl;dr - Not everything is peaches & cream on SDN, but even the blunt and rude comments can be extremely helpful sometimes and help bring you back to earth.

PS Congrats on getting in!
 
The problem is when people (and I think we are all guilty to some extent) use language in their posts that they would never use if they were talking to anybody face to face. I think it's a good rule of thumb, especially when a post gets you a little riled up 🙂
 
We are strict amateurs compared to the big bad world out there.

I was reading the comments section to that CNN matchless article this morning, and the discussion looked like this:
Ann: (says something ignorant, but forgivable as she is not an expert)
Response: Ann, next time don't go full ****** before hitting the Submit button

I gotta remember that line for the future!
 
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You make a great point OP. However, the internet is excellent breeding grounds for useless, derogatory information - a place where snobs can lift their noses and anonymously create an aurora of knowledge and elitism.

Hang out at the Pre D.O forum. We're much more down to earth and expect freckles and scars. We applaud people who overcome obstacles and know a thing or two about life, not just numbers. We have reason to believe that its in good faith too, because the "underdog thread" boasts of those who kept trying and gained worthy acceptances with GPAs under 3.6, MCAT scores in the 20's and other mixed circumstances.

Sometimes people need to be told the honest truth - no use trying to sugarcoat a 2.7 in Sociology. But the elitist attitude on some SDN boards has been a sharp, unwelcome pain for many. Let them be.
Best of luck in your endeavors.

Any douche with internet access and a dictionary can lead you astray on here. They probably crave respect in real life, so they look to whack a few newbies around for a power life. Scroll around, read through archives, find those who know the truth and speak it plainly without the side of snide, and look to them.
 
jackzack87 said:
Hang out at the Pre D.O forum. We're much more down to earth and expect freckles and scars. We applaud people who overcome obstacles and know a thing or two about life, not just numbers. We have reason to believe that its in good faith too, because the "underdog thread" boasts of those who kept trying and gained worthy acceptances with GPAs under 3.6, MCAT scores in the 20's and other mixed circumstances.
Click to expand...

👍

Pretty solid advice here. All of us in pre-allo are perfect applicants who have gone through 4 years of undergrad using our trust funds and parental contribution which made it easy for us to maintain our 4.0 GPA. Plus - the fact that none of us had to step outside our pre-med bubble really helped all of us reach this far easily and gain acceptances to medical school in a heart beat. But I don't agree with you about the comment about underdogs. We do have people here who only have a 3.8 and 33.
 
And we have a prime specimen here. Surely you understand a generalization when you see it, no? Sarcasm gains nothing, mon frere.

StoicJosher said:
👍

Pretty solid advice here. All of us in pre-allo are perfect applicants who have gone through 4 years of undergrad using our trust funds and parental contribution which made it easy for us to maintain our 4.0 GPA. Plus - the fact that none of us had to step outside our pre-med bubble really helped all of us reach this far easily and gain acceptances to medical school in a heart beat. But I don't agree with you about the comment about underdogs. We do have people here who only have a 3.8 and 33.
Click to expand...
 
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