doubts due to debt

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docmayer

docmayer

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Alright...after everything is starting to become real (applying, interviews, etc) I am re-evaluating everything. I want to be a doc more than anything and have the passion, but does the thought of being 300k in debt not make anyone else sick to their stomach? Doesn't this make anyone else double think everything in general? Is anyone else paying for EVERYTHING on their own with a LOC? Sorry, my anxiety is kicking in and I have an interview in a week at a school that would cost me 300k in total to attend.
 
docmayer said:
Alright...after everything is starting to become real (applying, interviews, etc) I am re-evaluating everything. I want to be a doc more than anything and have the passion, but does the thought of being 300k in debt not make anyone else sick to their stomach? Doesn't this make anyone else double think everything in general? Is anyone else paying for EVERYTHING on their own with a LOC? Sorry, my anxiety is kicking in and I have an interview in a week at a school that would cost me 300k in total to attend.
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But is your anxiety/stress enough to make you not go to medschool?
In the end there are going to be a TON of sacrifices and it's good that you are realizing this now because it'll be too late once its time to pay back all those loans. I had a similar moment of stress but I realized that it's going to be all worth it in the end. take it one step at a time 🙂
 
I took a look at your MDapps. You appear smart enough to make it to the end, because some people don't. The debt will take 5 years or so to pay off if you live frugally. You'll be in your early 30s when it's paid off. Plenty of time to enjoy life afterward. If you can't see yourself doing anything else, dive in.
 
thepoopologist said:
I took a look at your MDapps. You appear smart enough to make it to the end, because some people don't. The debt will take 5 years or so to pay off if you live frugally. You'll be in your early 30s when it's paid off. Plenty of time to enjoy life afterward. If you can't see yourself doing anything else, dive in.
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I don't know. Like what happens if I only make 120k/year and I'm 300+ in debt. That makes me cringe. I'm not doubting myself I am just being honest with what could happen. Also, are you saying that as a student that will be 300k in debt, or a student that has their education paid for? Because it is easier for one to say that if they are not 300k in debt (or going to be).
 
docmayer said:
I don't know. Like what happens if I only make 120k/year and I'm 300+ in debt. That makes me cringe. I'm not doubting myself I am just being honest with what could happen. Also, are you saying that as a student that will be 300k in debt, or a student that has their education paid for? Because it is easier for one to say that if they are not 300k in debt (or going to be).
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Unless you plan on working 9-5p as a pediatrician seeing 20 pts a day max you won't be making 120k/year, you will be making more.

There were 3rd year residents at the IM program in my core rotation hospital that were making $40,000 on top of their resident salary from moonlighting ($80,000+). If you're motivated you will be able to slash the debt quickly.

I will have that debt. It's scarier during preclinicals because there are doubts of whether you are going to make it to the end of the tunnel because there's still Step 1, 2, and 3 and a bunch of bull**** staring you in the face. As a 4th year, I'm more used to it, and once I get my license sometime 2nd year of residency, it'll be time for me to make some money.
 
There are different ways to manage debt. Some involve temporarily sacrificing your professional autonomy to some degree. For example, some states have tuition repayment for X years of service in rural areas. Some people go in to the military. There is a website (I forget which one specifically) that lists all the scholarships and repayment options available for students and physicians. I guess it just boils down to how bad we want it. But I agree, the debt always seems crippling from the outset 🙁
 
thepoopologist said:
Unless you plan on working 9-5p as a pediatrician seeing 20 pts a day max you won't be making 120k/year, you will be making more.

There were 3rd year residents at the IM program in my core rotation hospital that were making $40,000 on top of their resident salary from moonlighting ($80,000+). If you're motivated you will be able to slash the debt quickly.

I will have that debt. It's scarier during preclinicals because there are doubts of whether you are going to make it to the end of the tunnel because there's still Step 1, 2, and 3 and a bunch of bull**** staring you in the face. As a 4th year, I'm more used to it, and once I get my license sometime 2nd year of residency, it'll be time for me to make some money.
Click to expand...

Good to know. Thank you.
 
thepoopologist said:
i took a look at your mdapps. You appear smart enough to make it to the end, because some people don't. The debt will take 5 years or so to pay off if you live frugally. You'll be in your early 30s when it's paid off. Plenty of time to enjoy life afterward. If you can't see yourself doing anything else, dive in.
Click to expand...

+1.


thepoopologist said:
unless you plan on working 9-5p as a pediatrician seeing 20 pts a day max you won't be making 120k/year, you will be making more.

There were 3rd year residents at the im program in my core rotation hospital that were making $40,000 on top of their resident salary from moonlighting ($80,000+). If you're motivated you will be able to slash the debt quickly.

I will have that debt. It's scarier during preclinicals because there are doubts of whether you are going to make it to the end of the tunnel because there's still step 1, 2, and 3 and a bunch of bull**** staring you in the face. As a 4th year, i'm more used to it, and once i get my license sometime 2nd year of residency, it'll be time for me to make some money.
Click to expand...

+2.
 
timmaycakes said:
There are different ways to manage debt. Some involve temporarily sacrificing your professional autonomy to some degree. For example, some states have tuition repayment for X years of service in rural areas. Some people go in to the military. There is a website (I forget which one specifically) that lists all the scholarships and repayment options available for students and physicians. I guess it just boils down to how bad we want it. But I agree, the debt always seems crippling from the outset 🙁
Click to expand...

I looked into HPSP and I have to be an american citizen (so im out). I was wondering if anyone could link me to these rural scholarships. I would like to see if you have to be an american citizen to qualify. Thank you!
 
during an interview, they told us $2600 monthly payments with only our med school loans. this number changes from school to school, but lets just consider it.

2600 * 12 months = 31,200 /year

assuming you make 180k a year (i think is a relatively low salary, right?), then you're left with 180k - 31.2k = 148.8k

when i talked about it with the PI of my lab (an md/phd) he said a lot of docs take forever to pay it off; it's not something to worry about.

like you, interviews are making me realize the imminence of all this. however, i have not considered money but the lifestyle. for instance, my friend avidly wanted to be a surgeon when he started but is eyeing primary care a lot more now because the hours are not as intense.
 
thepoopologist said:
Unless you plan on working 9-5p as a pediatrician seeing 20 pts a day max you won't be making 120k/year, you will be making more.

There were 3rd year residents at the IM program in my core rotation hospital that were making $40,000 on top of their resident salary from moonlighting ($80,000+). If you're motivated you will be able to slash the debt quickly.

I will have that debt. It's scarier during preclinicals because there are doubts of whether you are going to make it to the end of the tunnel because there's still Step 1, 2, and 3 and a bunch of bull**** staring you in the face. As a 4th year, I'm more used to it, and once I get my license sometime 2nd year of residency, it'll be time for me to make some money.
Click to expand...

I'd rather pay more debt and not have to moonlight, but you make good points nonetheless. 😀
 
MedPR said:
https://services.aamc.org/fed_loan_pub/index.cfm?fuseaction=public.welcome&CFID=7563505
Click to expand...

bookmarked this link! what an excellent resource. Now, the only hurdle left is to actually get into a school so I can utilize the info in this link. Hopefully, atleast 1 school will consider me good enough. :xf:

As for debt, honestly, I am just trying to take it one step at a time. The waiting game of the app. cycle is enough stress so I am not thinking about anything else. Plus, I am sure all the practicing physician are/have been under similar debt and from what I have seen, they all seem to be doing well financially.
 
chiddler said:
during an interview, they told us $2600 monthly payments with only our med school loans. this number changes from school to school, but lets just consider it.

2600 * 12 months = 31,200 /year

assuming you make 180k a year (i think is a relatively low salary, right?), then you're left with 180k - 31.2k = 148.8k

when i talked about it with the PI of my lab (an md/phd) he said a lot of docs take forever to pay it off; it's not something to worry about.

like you, interviews are making me realize the imminence of all this. however, i have not considered money but the lifestyle. for instance, my friend avidly wanted to be a surgeon when he started but is eyeing primary care a lot more now because the hours are not as intense.
Click to expand...

The income Based Repayment plan seem to be a good option. It at least takes under consideration that not all physicians make 300,000-500,000 plus under this plan, all debts after 25 years are forgiven (i think)
 
yes, but that forgiven debt counts as income. If you work for a non-profit for 10 years, your debt is forgiven not counted as income. For now. Who knows what the government will change any debt or repayment options to in the future.

The way the government is going, they will also back date everything so no one is grandfathered.
 
docmayer said:
I looked into HPSP and I have to be an american citizen (so im out). I was wondering if anyone could link me to these rural scholarships. I would like to see if you have to be an american citizen to qualify. Thank you!
Click to expand...

I've heard from some Canadians at my school that there are very high paying primary care jobs in rural northern Canada due to a lack of physicians willing to live in work in the boondocks. All I know about it is hearsay, but something to look into since you're Canadian.
 
From looking at your mdapp you applied to some of the more expensive schools... you should get an interview from LECOM which is the obvious way to go if you are worried about the financials. I'm not too familiar with the other schools but I think the next cheapest would be LMU so rock that interview.

After that work at a hopsital where your service are needed. They will either pay you more or work a nice tuition reimbursement into your benefits. That is if your residency status gives you trouble and you can't qualify for other financial programs.

The debt's scary but most make it through without being a slave. Now if you add a mariage to a spouse that wants an amazing lifestyle, then you'll be a slave.
 
Check out Public Health Service or military scholarships.

If you you want it bad enough, you can do it.

docmayer said:
Alright...after everything is starting to become real (applying, interviews, etc) I am re-evaluating everything. I want to be a doc more than anything and have the passion, but does the thought of being 300k in debt not make anyone else sick to their stomach? Doesn't this make anyone else double think everything in general? Is anyone else paying for EVERYTHING on their own with a LOC? Sorry, my anxiety is kicking in and I have an interview in a week at a school that would cost me 300k in total to attend.
Click to expand...
 
If you are applying to American schools, you ought to already have the green card. That means that you can potentially become US citizen if you held it for 5 years (3 if married/military). If you choose military scholarships they actually assist with fulfilling citizenship requirement.
If you are not a US premanent resident, tuition prepayment requirement seems to me to be a much bigger problem that loan repayment.
 
Woland said:
If you are applying to American schools, you ought to already have the green card. That means that you can potentially become US citizen if you held it for 5 years (3 if married/military). If you choose military scholarships they actually assist with fulfilling citizenship requirement.
If you are not a US premanent resident, tuition prepayment requirement seems to me to be a much bigger problem that loan repayment.
Click to expand...

I do not have a green card. However I can get one after I finish my H1B visa (after residency). I've looked into both Canadian and US military and you have to be a US citizen, and in Canada you must have attended a Canadian medical school to qualify. It seems most scholarships and loan forgiveness require you to be a US citizen. Sucks.
 
cabinbuilder said:
Let me make it very simple.

My medical school debt is 220K

My payments each month are $1,125

I make that in ONE DAY.
Click to expand...

Oh my gosh! REALLY???? When I was working for my application fees, it took me 2 paychecks (1month) to make that money!!!! Wow... that is incredible! I envy you!
 
The debt seems crushing when you aren't making any money and when you are in residency. But when you look at signing a contract where you will take home more in a week what you used to take home a month... It seems not so bad.
 
i thought the mean for a family practice doctor was about 160,000 so that seems like you are on the very high side of earners for family practice. do you mind if i ask what state you work in?
 
felix2929 said:
i thought the mean for a family practice doctor was about 160,000 so that seems like you are on the very high side of earners for family practice. do you mind if i ask what state you work in?
Click to expand...

I work locums- too much of a rebel to be under someone's thumb
I have 6 state licenses
I work about 8 months out of the year
I always break 200K.
I created my own 401K
I buy my own catastrophic health insurance
 
ndo0604 said:
Oh my gosh! REALLY???? When I was working for my application fees, it took me 2 paychecks (1month) to make that money!!!! Wow... that is incredible! I envy you!
Click to expand...

I understand completely. When I worked as a CNA, I brought home $1500/month. Depending on the job I make that in 1-2 days. The debt is there yes, but the money is there to if you work it right.
 
docmayer said:
Alright...after everything is starting to become real (applying, interviews, etc) I am re-evaluating everything. I want to be a doc more than anything and have the passion, but does the thought of being 300k in debt not make anyone else sick to their stomach? Doesn't this make anyone else double think everything in general? Is anyone else paying for EVERYTHING on their own with a LOC? Sorry, my anxiety is kicking in and I have an interview in a week at a school that would cost me 300k in total to attend.
Click to expand...

As someone who is probably only going to start med school later than most people, I will be in debt longer. I have UG loans I need to pay off, I will probably take more loans because after graduation I will need to continue taking classes to boost my miserable excuse of a GPA. I will be poor for a longer time than the majority of people I know and probably will know.

But I'm ok with it, because even if I'm poor, as a doctor I'm helping and curing people. I think its much more rewarding than raking in 600k a year and analyzing stock options for super-rich people.
 
cabinbuilder said:
I work locums- too much of a rebel to be under someone's thumb
I have 6 state licenses
I work about 8 months out of the year
I always break 200K.
I created my own 401K
I buy my own catastrophic health insurance
Click to expand...


Ahh ok sounds like you stay pretty busy. Thanks for the info!
 
cabinbuilder said:
I work locums- too much of a rebel to be under someone's thumb
I have 6 state licenses
I work about 8 months out of the year
I always break 200K.
I created my own 401K
I buy my own catastrophic health insurance
Click to expand...

felix2929 said:
Ahh ok sounds like you stay pretty busy. Thanks for the info!
Click to expand...

I think the point was that she isnt all that busy. 8 months out of the year working ain't to bad 😉
 
How much of the remaining 4 mos spent traveling to and from work as a locums?
 
dude at my school will be at 380k when he graduates 😱

I'm shooting for a sub 200k total, which I see as totally possible. It's only money lol
 
HalfListic said:
I think the point was that she isnt all that busy. 8 months out of the year working ain't to bad 😉
Click to expand...

she possibly spends the other 4 months of the year filling out all the required paperwork to have licenses in 6 states?
 
felix2929 said:
she possibly spends the other 4 months of the year filling out all the required paperwork to have licenses in 6 states?
Click to expand...

Make $200k+ per year and you can hire a secretary to do that for you.
 
felix2929 said:
i thought the mean for a family practice doctor was about 160,000 so that seems like you are on the very high side of earners for family practice. do you mind if i ask what state you work in?
Click to expand...

Even at $160k/yr with $300k in debt you won't have a problem financially. You'll be able to buy everything you need and more. You might not be able to buy or do everything you want, but you'll never have to worry about the necessities. I think the average national wage in 2011 was around $40k. Sure those people don't have monthly medical school loan repayments, but your payments won't be $120k/year either.

Don't worry about loans. No matter what your specialty, you'll be fine.
 
felix2929 said:
she possibly spends the other 4 months of the year filling out all the required paperwork to have licenses in 6 states?
Click to expand...

Umm, Hardly, I acquired those licenses out of necessity. Not like I went out of my way to do all that paperowork. Most can be done in a day. Once you get it established, it's all on line and can be done from home (or whatever hotel I'm in).
 
MedPR said:
Make $200k+ per year and you can hire a secretary to do that for you.
Click to expand...

HaHa, you guys are funny. Like I would let someone else deal with my paperwork. I have EVERYTHING scanned only my computer, doesn't matter where I am, I can always email the required paperwork where I need it to go.
 
ndo0604 said:
Oh my gosh! REALLY???? When I was working for my application fees, it took me 2 paychecks (1month) to make that money!!!! Wow... that is incredible! I envy you!
Click to expand...

Don't envy me. Work hard, be a doctor, and BE ME. It may seem impossible now, but once you hit a 6 figure income a $100 is the same as $10. It's all relative.
 
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