1/2 Mexican, 1/2 Chinese - am I URM

[wya2020]

I only ask so I have a better idea of which stats to compare myself to when finalizing my school list.

I do not speak Spanish fluently as we spoke English only in our household and some mandarin, but I have a lot of volunteer work with Latino organizations that focused on healthcare disparity.

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[Goro]

I lean to no. Play up the volunteer work.

 

[wya2020]

I lean to no. Play up the volunteer work.

Do schools decide who they designate URM status to? I’m just confused how they make that decision.

Also not low SES if that plays a role

 

[Goro]

Do schools decide who they designate URM status to? I’m just confused how they make that decision.

Also not low SES if that plays a role

It is indeed up to the school to determine what is and what is not under represented in medicine.

Low socioeconomic status is a separate category. We're fond of Rags to Riches stories

 

[wya2020]

It is indeed up to the school to determine what is and what is not under represented in medicine.

Low socioeconomic status is a separate category. We're fond of Rags to Riches stories

So should I not take the 1/2 urm into account as I finalize a schools list and just apply based solely on stats with a hint of asian

 

[Goro]

So should I not take the 1/2 urm into account as I finalize a schools list and just apply based solely on stats with a hint of asian

You should apply where you are competitive and then let the schools do the work

 

[LizzyM]

Make two lists. Look for overlap, apply to those schools (where you are a reach as an Asian-American but not a reach as a Mexican-American) and then add in your favorite schools that are not on both lists. Aim for 1/2-1/4-1/4 or split in thirds. Let us know where you end up being interviewed in terms of the lists.

 

[fathergoat]

All the experiments above are fun, but honestly we already know the results and they are not in your best interest. You look like a 100% spanish speaking mexican to some beholder, so enjoy the process!

 

[RJ McReady]

Is your last name Asian or Latin?
I ask in all seriousness because adcoms will see this and wonder why you are applying as an URM if you have an Asian surname. If it is Latin, my opinion would be to apply as an URM.

 

[gyngyn]

Is your last name Asian or Latin?
I ask in all seriousness because adcoms will see this and wonder why you are applying as an URM if you have an Asian surname. If it is Latin, my opinion would be to apply as an URM.

The schools have discretion in how they define the groups that are under-represented in medicine but I have yet to see one that bases it on surname.

 

[RJ McReady]

I’m not saying schools base URM status on surname (although, who knows, some might.) What I’m saying is that OP’s app might get more scrutiny if he applied as an URM yet had an Asian surname.

 

[gyngyn]

I’m not saying schools base URM status on surname (although, who knows, some might.) What I’m saying is that OP’s app might get more scrutiny if he applied as an URM yet had an Asian surname.

We see applicants of every stripe with every sort of surname. Scrutiny is our job, but as long as the applicant is clear in explaining how they identify, they will have the benefit of an honest appraisal.

 

[RJ McReady]

We see applicants of every stripe with every sort of surname. Scrutiny is our job, but as long as the applicant is clear in explaining how they identify, they will have the benefit of an honest appraisal.

That’s great, and commendable, and is as it should be. But, you are one adcom member at one school, and the process at your school may not be what it is at others. I am a student interviewer for our medical school and I can tell you that during a committee meeting such a question as I posed would definitely come up, thereby giving the applicant additional, and perhaps unwanted, scrutiny.

 

[gyngyn]

I do not speak Spanish fluently

There is still plenty of time to improve!

 

[gyngyn]

I am a student interviewer for our medical school and I can tell you that during a committee meeting such a question as I posed would definitely come up, thereby giving the applicant additional, and perhaps unwanted, scrutiny.

I'm sorry to hear that. Let us know if your belief is substantiated in committee deliberations.

 

[RJ McReady]

I’m not sure why you are sorry to hear what I have to say. It may be unpleasant, but this is the real world and there are people trying to game the system all the time. I would add that if the applicant is vetted as being genuinely an URM, then there obviously is no issue. The criteria for URM status, as you yourself said, are up to the schools discretion. At our school, the process wr have in place may in fact help actual URM applicants obtain a seat.

 

[TakotsuboOkazaki]

It is indeed up to the school to determine what is and what is not under represented in medicine.

Low socioeconomic status is a separate category. We're fond of Rags to Riches stories

For me, this was a solid lower-middle-class to $300K in debt at 28-type of story.

 

[deleted997951]

It is indeed up to the school to determine what is and what is not under represented in medicine.

Low socioeconomic status is a separate category. We're fond of Rags to Riches stories

How would you look at this situation, I am a black AA for the first 10 years of my life my family was poor we lived in a one bedroom apartment with 4 people, while my father was starting his business, it grew into a million-dollar company. Would you look at that story favorably or would adcoms disregard it because my family is not poor anymore.

 

[gyngyn]

At our school, the process wr have in place may in fact help actual URM applicants obtain a seat.

The OP has the responsibility to write openly and honestly about how they self-identify (without regard to surname) and leave it to the school to exercise due diligence. I disagree with the assertion that surname is the standard that they should use to avoid scrutiny.

 

[KnightDoc]

How would you look at this situation, I am a black AA for the first 10 years of my life my family was poor we lived in a one bedroom apartment with 4 people, while my father was starting his business, it grew into a million-dollar company. Would you look at that story favorably or would adcoms disregard it because my family is not poor anymore.

Black AA will be URM regardless. Low SES is meant to address a lack of resources and opportunities. As the child of a millionaire, did you not have access to opportunities from age 10 on that held you back academically? Did you suffer from a lack of opportunities at age 5 that hindered your academic performance later? If not, that card won't be available to you, but you won't need it, depending on your stats, because AA is definitely URM, regardless of wealth, so you should be getting some love from lots of schools.

 

[deleted997951]

Black AA will be URM regardless. Low SES is meant to address a lack of resources and opportunities. As the child of a millionaire, did you not have access to opportunities from age 10 on that held you back academically? Did you suffer from a lack of opportunities at age 5 that hindered your academic performance later? If not, that card won't be available to you, but you won't need it, depending on your stats, because AA is definitely URM, regardless of wealth, so you should be getting some love from lots of schools.

I see thank you I won't try to play that card and take away from real struggles.

 

[KnightDoc]

I see thank you I won't try to play that card and take away from real struggles.

Trust me, you won't need it, and it can only backfire if they think you are trying to game them.

 

[Goro]

How would you look at this situation, I am a black AA for the first 10 years of my life my family was poor we lived in a one bedroom apartment with 4 people, while my father was starting his business, it grew into a million-dollar company. Would you look at that story favorably or would adcoms disregard it because my family is not poor anymore.

We need URM doctors, rich or poor

 

[RJ McReady]

The OP has the responsibility to write openly and honestly about how they self-identify (without regard to surname) and leave it to the school to exercise due diligence. I disagree with the assertion that surname is the standard that they should use to avoid scrutiny.

I never said that surname is the only standard used to avoid scrutiny. My only point is that in conjunction with the rest of the application, It might be (mistakenly) used to invite scrutiny.

I’m afraid you’re misinterpreting my comments, so I’ll just leave it at that.

 

[wya2020]

The schools have discretion in how they define the groups that are under-represented in medicine but I have yet to see one that bases it on surname.

My last name is asian bc my Latin roots are from my mother’s side. Seems odd they would decide urm status based on a last name when it really just comes down to 50/50 which parent is which

I do agree it could invite scrutiny, but I stress in the rest of my app my connection to my culture and ethnic roots so it doesn’t seem like I’m just adopting an identity

 

[wya2020]

Make two lists. Look for overlap, apply to those schools (where you are a reach as an Asian-American but not a reach as a Mexican-American) and then add in your favorite schools that are not on both lists. Aim for 1/2-1/4-1/4 or split in thirds. Let us know where you end up being interviewed in terms of the lists.

Where could I find data (such as mcat, gpa, not just # of matriculants) specific to minority status or just race for each school? Is that also on the MSAR?

 

[HopeP]

We need URM doctors, rich or poor

What about ORM, rich or poor?

 

[KnightDoc]

What about ORM, rich or poor?

I think the "O" in ORM provides a clue as to the answer.

 

[HopeP]

I think the "O" in ORM provides a clue as to the answer.

are you suggesting a rich URM has leg up over poor ORM?

 

[KnightDoc]

are you suggesting a rich URM has leg up over poor ORM?

Hard to say because they are different buckets, but yeah, probably.

 

[Dave1980]

My last name is asian bc my Latin roots are from my mother’s side. Seems odd they would decide urm status based on a last name when it really just comes down to 50/50 which parent is which

I do agree it could invite scrutiny, but I stress in the rest of my app my connection to my culture and ethnic roots so it doesn’t seem like I’m just adopting an identity

Seems like you're grasping at straws. Was your mother born in Mexico?

 

[Dave1980]

are you suggesting a rich URM has leg up over poor ORM?

Affirmative action is not about helping people of low SES it is about getting diversity (which is mostly defined as ethnicity) into medicine. I think it's a good thing.

They don't care if you come from a poor family. If you are Asian you are over-represented.

 

[Goro]

What about ORM, rich or poor?

NOT going to turn this into a URM vs ORM swampfest, sorry.

 

[Goro]

Where could I find data (such as mcat, gpa, not just # of matriculants) specific to minority status or just race for each school? Is that also on the MSAR?

Yup, it's in MSAR

 

[HopeP]

NOT going to turn this into a URM vs ORM swampfest, sorry.

neither do I, mine was serious question to understand adcom views, not to debate its merits.

 

[RJ McReady]

they would decide urm status based on a last name

again, please don’t misunderstand, I’m not saying this would be the only factor. If your App and narrativeis that of an URM then you should apply as such.

 

[Goro]

neither do I, mine was serious question to understand adcom views, not to debate its merits.

I understand, but given the volatility of the subject, this thread is not the place to have that discussion.

 

[HopeP]

I understand, but given the volatility of the subject, this thread is not the place to have that discussion.

agreed with you, created another thread hopefully adcoms chime in.

 

[LizzyM]

Given the LCME (accrediting body for medical schools) focus on racial/ethnic diversity, every school is going to at least make an effort to recruit a racially and ethnically diverse student body. Diversity of socio-economic status in childhood is not a criteria AFAIK for accreditation. That said, there is some thought that the people most likely to locate their medical practices in low income settings, either inner-city or rural, will be people who grew up in such settings and are familiar with the culture and lifestyle. Ergo, it behooves us to train such people to be physicians. Furthermore, schools are putting more emphasis on "grit" and if you can show you finished the race at the same time as someone else (for this metaphor, let's say you achieved 3.9/512) but you started 200 meters behind the other competitors in this 1500 m run (e.g. coming out of a poor performing public HS, and with neither parent having attended college), then you are someone who certainly has what it takes and is perhaps stronger than other applicants who put up the same numbers.

 

[Goro]

Given the LCME (accrediting body for medical schools) focus on racial/ethnic diversity, every school is going to at least make an effort to recruit a racially and ethnically diverse student body. Diversity of socio-economic status in childhood is not a criteria AFAIK for accreditation. That said, there is some thought that the people most likely to locate their medical practices in low income settings, either inner-city or rural, will be people who grew up in such settings and are familiar with the culture and lifestyle. Ergo, it behooves us to train such people to be physicians. Furthermore, schools are putting more emphasis on "grit" and if you can show you finished the race at the same time as someone else (for this metaphor, let's say you achieved 3.9/512) but you started 200 meters behind the other competitors in this 1500 m run (e.g. coming out of a poor performing public HS, and with neither parent having attended college), then you are someone who certainly has what it takes and is perhaps stronger than other applicants who put up the same numbers.

This is why I like to say that compelling life stories can get some people into medical school with significantly lower stats.

 

[la flame]

are you suggesting a rich URM has leg up over poor ORM?

besides $$$, i feel it also has to do with the amount of doctors of X ethnicity vs. amount of X ethnicity citizens of this country

for example, there is not many Mexican-American physicians, yet some reports say by 2050 half of the population in America will be Latino (which Mexican-Americans make up the largest of that group). Do you see why it will be important to have more Mexican American physicians (even if those Mexican-American premeds grew up rich) as the Mexican American population increases astronomically in America?

 

[HopeP]

besides $$$, i feel it also has to do with the amount of doctors of X ethnicity vs. amount of X ethnicity citizens of this country

for example, there is not many Mexican-American physicians, yet some reports say by 2050 half of the population in America will be Latino (which Mexican-Americans make up the largest of that group). Do you see why it will be important to have more Mexican American physicians (even if those Mexican-American premeds grew up rich) as the Mexican American population increases astronomically in America?

Is that only applicable to Dr professional or every other healthcare professional like nurses, EMT etc. and other workers like car repair technician to teachers to hvac to what else?

 

[LizzyM]

Is that only applicable to Dr professional or every other healthcare professional like nurses, EMT etc. and other workers like car repair technician to teachers to hvac to what else?

There are efforts to have diversity on the faculty of schools from pre-K through University. Ditto among judges from the municipal level up through the federal judiciary. There have been many attempts to have representation of under-represented minorities including LBGTQ community members on the police force. So, those are several examples of professions where there are efforts to diversity the workforce, particularly where people exercise power over members of the public. There have also been efforts in corporate America to be more inclusive in top management and on boards of directors.

 

[deleted789929]

Affirmative action is not about helping people of low SES it is about getting diversity (which is mostly defined as ethnicity) into medicine. I think it's a good thing.

They don't care if you come from a poor family. If you are Asian you are over-represented.

This is quite the bad thing, actually! Shame on you for being a physician and not being able to understand this.

 

[Dave1980]

This is quite the bad thing, actually! Shame on you for being a physician and not being able to understand this.

Nothing is a true meritocracy. If you aren't good enough to get into med school because AA and latinos get a bump you don't deserve a spot.

 

[Hiphopscorpio31]

again, please don’t misunderstand, I’m not saying this would be the only factor. If your App and narrativeis that of an URM then you should apply as such.

^^ Also remember that latin american culture is very diverse, and there are plenty of latinos with black, white, asian, and indigenous roots! Also, due to immigration to Central/South America in the past few generations from several different countries like China, Germany, Franch, etc, there are plenty of native-born latinos with non-latin last names! If being mexican is genuinely a part of your identity, please put it down! 🙂

 

[deleted1025488]

^^ Also remember that latin american culture is very diverse, and there are plenty of latinos with black, white, asian, and indigenous roots! Also, due to immigration to Central/South America in the past few generations from several different countries like China, Germany, Franch, etc, there are plenty of native-born latinos with non-latin last names! If being mexican is genuinely a part of your identity, please put it down! 🙂

This is true. Also, most Latinos aren't considered URM (from what I've read on this forum). That only applies to Mexican and Puerto Rican if I remember correctly. Not to say that Spanish speaking kids with roots from southern America are viewed the same as a White or Asian applicant (not that I know) but there is still intrinsic value in diversity.

 

[Hiphopscorpio31]

This is true. Also, most Latinos aren't considered URM (from what I've read on this forum). That only applies to Mexican and Puerto Rican if I remember correctly. Not to say that Spanish speaking kids with roots from southern America are viewed the same as a White or Asian applicant (not that I know) but there is still intrinsic value in diversity.

Yeah it's really weird how it's only applied to Mexican and Puerto Ricans lol there is definitely under-representation of latinos in general, and we should push to train more doctors from families that have immigrated from other central and south american countries. But I digress lol

 

[LizzyM]

This is true. Also, most Latinos aren't considered URM (from what I've read on this forum). That only applies to Mexican and Puerto Rican if I remember correctly.

This is not true and has not been true for almost 20 years. Every school decides for itself.

Underrepresented in Medicine Definition

The AAMC Executive Committee adopted a clarification to its definition of "underrepresented in medicine" following the Supreme Court's decision in Grutter.

www.aamc.org

 

[gyngyn]

Yeah it's really weird how it's only applied to Mexican and Puerto Ricans lol there is definitely under-representation of latinos in general, and we should push to train more doctors from families that have immigrated from other central and south american countries. But I digress lol

Central Americans are UiM at several schools.