1/2 Mexican, 1/2 Chinese - am I URM

[Goro]

Central Americans are UiM at several schools.

This is valuable to know! Can you share which ones???

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[gyngyn]

This is valuable to know! Can you share which ones???

Most of the CA schools. I don't know about Northstate, CUSM or Kaiser, though.

 

[deleted1025488]

This is not true and has not been true for almost 20 years. Every school decides for itself.

Underrepresented in Medicine Definition

The AAMC Executive Committee adopted a clarification to its definition of "underrepresented in medicine" following the Supreme Court's decision in Grutter.

www.aamc.org

Didn't goro say that southern americans (brazilians, argentinians, etc.) are pretty much never considered URM because there's a lot of them in the medical field relative to their population here?

 

[la flame]

Yeah it's really weird how it's only applied to Mexican and Puerto Ricans lol there is definitely under-representation of latinos in general, and we should push to train more doctors from families that have immigrated from other central and south american countries. But I digress lol

I think it's because the ratio of Mexican-American citizens to Mexican-American physicians is low. For example, yes there is few Brazilian-American physicians but there is also very few Brazilian Americans when you compare it to Mexican-Americans. 600k vs 36 mil. That's how I see it i guess

 

[Goro]

Didn't goro say that southern americans (brazilians, argentinians, etc.) are pretty much never considered URM because there's a lot of them in the medical field relative to their population here?

I'm basing most of those comment on what the wise gyngyn has posted. I do know that Einstein seems to like Dominicans.

 

[LizzyM]

Every school can choose to define URM at it pleases. Full stop. It is possible that some schools will count someone as URM while other schools will not. There is a huge Dominican population in northern Manhattan and thus some NYC schools may consider Dominicans to be URM while schools in Missouri (or wherever), will not.

 

[Hiphopscorpio31]

Every school can choose to define URM at it pleases. Full stop. It is possible that some schools will count someone as URM while other schools will not. There is a huge Dominican population in northern Manhattan and thus some NYC schools may consider Dominicans to be URM while schools in Missouri (or wherever), will not.

Makes perfect sense. Thanks everyone for the super helpful insight on this!

 

[HopeP]

Its an irony that first country imports ORM brain through immigration and then setting higher bar for their offspring for success ave, who are actually citizen by birth.

 

[KnightDoc]

Nothing is a true meritocracy. If you aren't good enough to get into med school because AA and latinos get a bump you don't deserve a spot.

"Deserve"???? That's kind of incendiary! I get the need for diversity in any profession, but saying someone with objectively higher achievement doesn't "deserve" because of a lower bar for historically excluded demographics????? I totally get it being what it is, and I totally support the need for diversity, to level the playing field, right past wrongs, life isn't fair, etc. But "deserve"? "Good enough"? Who decide

Its an irony that first country imports ORM brain through immigration and then setting higher bar for their offspring for success ave, who are actually citizen by birth.

????? The country isn't setting the bar! Nothing ironic here at all. Schools want diversity, and we all know it's not all about the numbers like it is in some other countries where maybe some of the candidates' ancestors came from.

The bar isn't set by the country, or by the school. It's set by the peers in the demographic group. ORM are already OR -- that's an acknowledgement that they overachieve relative to their numbers in the population and in the applicant pool. If they weren't allowed to be OR, the stats of those who were successful would be even higher!!!

And, as you must certainly know, this has NOTHING to do with citizenship. The vast majority of US med students are citizens by application requirements. ORM citizens are certainly not being discriminated against in favor of non-citizens!!!

 

[Hiphopscorpio31]

"Deserve"???? That's kind of incendiary! I get the need for diversity in any profession, but saying someone with objectively higher achievement doesn't "deserve" because of a lower bar for historically excluded demographics????? I totally get it being what it is, and I totally support the need for diversity, to level the playing field, right past wrongs, life isn't fair, etc. But "deserve"? "Good enough"? Who decide

I think you may be misinterpreting his message. I'm pretty sure he is saying that if you aren't able to make yourself competitive enough to get into med school (which is very competitive in general for everyone, including URM), without placing blame on URM for a slight bump (which doesn't affect ORM matriculation at all, and also doesn't address the fact that there is a terrifyingly low number of URM applicants), then you probably don't deserve a spot from a moral standpoint.

idk if that makes sense, or if I'm interpretting it correctly myself lol

 

[KnightDoc]

I think you may be misinterpreting his message. I'm pretty sure he is saying that if you aren't able to make yourself competitive enough to get into med school (which is very competitive in general for everyone, including URM), without placing blame on URM for a slight bump (which doesn't affect ORM matriculation at all, and also doesn't address the fact that there is a terrifyingly low number of URM applicants), then you probably don't deserve a spot from a moral standpoint.

idk if that makes sense, or if I'm interpretting it correctly myself lol

Honestly, I didn't even mean to post that. I started typing, and then stopped, and then inadvertently posted it when I posted the other reply!

But, now that it's out -- I stand by it. I don't see how you can say anyone with higher stats and comparable ECs doesn't "deserve" admission by virtue of the fact that they aren't strong enough to overcome a preference someone else receives. I get that it is what it is, and I am certainly NOT saying the URM receiving the preference doesn't deserve it, but I think it's equally obnoxious to say that the person on the short end of that stick didn't deserve the spot.

 

[HopeP]

And, as you must certainly know, this has NOTHING to do with citizenship. The vast majority of US med students are citizens by application requirements. ORM citizens are certainly not being discriminated against in favor of non-citizens!!!

You pressed wrong gas paddle, I am not going for citizen vs DACA distinction. What I am trying to say is country that is deprive of brain power, hence immigration, forces offspring of that borrowed brain power to compete against its own pool only, not everyone has equal opportunity.
I wonder how that flies for professional sports dominated by URMs, aren't so called URM actually ORM in professional sports?
I am not against diversity and grateful that county has accepted us, but why diversity only for cherry picked professionals?

 

[KnightDoc]

You pressed wrong gas paddle, I am not going for citizen vs DACA distinction. What I am trying to say is country that is deprive of brain power, hence immigration, forces offspring of that borrowed brain power to compete against its own pool only, not everyone has equal opportunity.
I wonder how that flies for professional sports dominated by URMs, aren't so called URM actually ORM in professional sports?
I am not against diversity and grateful that county has accepted us, but why diversity only for cherry picked professionals?

Ehh. Sorry, I didn't mean to press any gas peddle. I was just responding to your comment about the children of immigrants who are natural born citizens having a higher bar, as though that is somehow un American.

You want to compare medical school to professional sports, which is a big money entertainment industry?

Sorry, I can't help you there. You'd have to go to the NBA forum and, on behalf of your URB child, demand a multi million dollar guaranteed contract for him to achieve parity for the admission preferences URMs receive in med school. Please be sure to report back and let us know how that goes.

Only diversity for cherry picked professionals because med school adcoms make a concerted effort to be socially responsible, and because URMs, when provided opportunity, have demonstrated that they can be excellent physicians, even if their MCAT is 8 points below an ORM. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for a 5'6" Asian with no jump shot in the NBA. On the other hand, Jeremy Lin amply demonstrated that there is a tremendous and lucrative market for an Asian with even marginal skills.

 

[Hiphopscorpio31]

You pressed wrong gas paddle, I am not going for citizen vs DACA distinction. What I am trying to say is country that is deprive of brain power, hence immigration, forces offspring of that borrowed brain power to compete against its own pool only, not everyone has equal opportunity.
I wonder how that flies for professional sports dominated by URMs, aren't so called URM actually ORM in professional sports?
I am not against diversity and grateful that county has accepted us, but why diversity only for cherry picked professionals?

lets remember that URM and ORM refer to representation in medicine. Sucess in athletics is a combination of training, work ethic, genetics, and probably a bit of luck. Your comments have always been hard to follow but I'm not sure where you could possibly be going with this haha

 

[KnightDoc]

lets remember that URM and ORM refer to representation in medicine. Sucess in athletics is a combination of training, work ethic, genetics, and probably a bit of luck. Your comments have always been hard to follow but I'm not sure where you could possibly be going with this haha

URB, that's where!!!

 

[Hiphopscorpio31]

I don't see how you can say anyone with higher stats and comparable ECs doesn't "deserve" admission by virtue of the fact that they aren't strong enough to overcome a preference someone else receives.

I understand what you mean, a person with high stats and good EC's definitely has what it takes to be successful in medschool! But the original guy wasn't bashing him based on his stats or intelligence, he was moreso commenting on their moral competency lol. And you don't have to be strong to overcome the preference thing, just morally competent and culturally aware imo

 

[HopeP]

Sucess in athletics is a combination of training, work ethic, genetics, and probably a bit of luck

Which one of those not needed for medicine?

Your comments have always been hard to follow but I'm not sure where you could possibly be going with this

Well every policy has goals and every goal has a way to measure it. I am certain that diversity is well thought out, however wonder what are the goals med schools are trying to accomplish? or goals are as diverse as URM interpretation by med schools? Is diversity going to create a balanced healthcare system?

 

[Goro]

Which one of those not needed for medicine?

Well every policy has goals and every goal has a way to measure it. I am certain that diversity is well thought out, however wonder what are the goals med schools are trying to accomplish? or goals are as diverse as URM interpretation by med schools? Is diversity going to create a balanced healthcare system?

Medical outcomes literally ride on having a diverse physician workforce.

 

[HopeP]

because URMs, when provided opportunity, have demonstrated that they can be excellent physicians, even if their MCAT is 8 points below an ORM. Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for a 5'6" Asian with no jump shot in the NBA.

I am sure if same opportunities provided to 5'6" URMs in NBA may not need to jump shoot as defender is likely a 5'4" guy too.

 

[Hiphopscorpio31]

Which one of those not needed for medicine?

Well every policy has goals and every goal has a way to measure it. I am certain that diversity is well thought out, however wonder what are the goals med schools are trying to accomplish? or goals are as diverse as URM interpretation by med schools? Is diversity going to create a balanced healthcare system?

hmm well the distinction with medicine is that medical school matriculation is tied heavily to wealth, whether it be financial wealth, or social connections. And wealth disparities are heavily tied to race here in the US. How much does it cost for a star athlete to join his/her HS basketball team?

 

[KnightDoc]

I am sure if same opportunities provided to 5'6" URMs in NBA may not need to jump shoot as defender is likely a 5'4" guy too.

The only problem is, nobody would spend good money to see that!

 

[HopeP]

The only problem is, nobody would spend good money to see that!

Lol all medical ORMs will attend NBA URM.
Wait thought once all Drs are trained it doesn't matter which medical school you had attended and patients will go to those Drs and won't ask whether its a product from HYPSM or Carribean.