10 Biggest Myths Regarding Primary Care in the Future

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Ten Biggest Myths Regarding Primary Care in the Future

Introduction: This article is by Robert Bowman, MD, of the AT Still College of Osteopathic Medicine in Mesa, AZ. Dr. Bowman is a long time scholar of primary care and rural health workforce issues. He identifies and comments upon 2 important workforce concepts. The first is “primary care forms” of training, which include 3 physician forms (family medicine, general internal medicine, and general pediatrics), and primary care nurse practitioners and physician’s assistants. The second is the Standard Primary Care (SPC) year, which allows us to look at the success of the different “forms” in terms of how many SPC years they provide per graduate. This takes into account the percentage of graduates who enter primary care, the portion of their practice that is primary care, at what rate they leave primary care for another area, the number of years they practice, and the percent time (part time/full time) they practice. Thus if a form of training has 100% of graduates entering primary care who practice full-time for an average of 35 years with 100% primary care practice, that form would produce 35 SPC years per graduate. If another form had only 50% of its graduates entering primary care, who averaged 50% primary care practice, practiced for an average of 20 years with an average of 75% FTE, that form would produce an average of only 3.75 SPC years per graduate (do the arithmetic: 20 years x 75% FTE x 50% of grads in primary care x 50% of practice is primary care). This is important in comparing projections – one can’t just say, for example “nurse practitioners will take care of our primary care needs” without doing such a calculation.

* Myth Number 1: Primary Care has collapsed. Primary care internal medicine has collapsed with lowest production and lowest primary care retention levels. Those associated with internal medicine primary care perceive collapse. But primary care remains. Existing dedicated primary care practitioners continue to deliver primary care despite insufficient support. There are 5 training sources of primary care. Some are remaining steady and some are dropping. The ideal primary care provider would contribute 35 Standard Primary Care (SPC) years: a 35 years career, actively in practice 100% of those years, and 100% remaining in primary care and 100% or top volume of primary care. Among the 5 forms of primary care training, family medicine remains steady in primary care with over 25 Standard Primary Care (SPC) years per graduate. Pediatrics is also steady, but with only 16 SPC years per graduate. The other 3 forms have more graduates who are inactive or part-time, have fewer years in a career, retain a lower percent of graduates in primary care (retention), and have a lower volume of primary care. They thus make limited contributions with fewer SPC years per graduate. Internal medicine, nurse practitioner, and physician assistant forms have declined to less than 4 SPC years per program graduate. Collapse of primary care is found for forms that depart primary care during training, at graduation, and each year after graduation under the assault of poor primary care support. [1]

* Myth Number 2: Nurse practitioners will take over more primary care duties. Nurse practitioners will continue to supply less than 12% of the primary care supplied by the five primary care training forms using past measures as well as future estimates.[1, 2] Increasing departures to hospital and specialty careers, lowest activity (inactive, part time), lowest volume of primary care, and greatest delays in entering primary care limit nurse practitioner primary care contributions.

* Myth Number 3: Physician assistants will take over more primary care duties. Less than 30% of new physician assistants enter primary care and active physician assistants will dip below this level in the next 3 years.[3] Physician assistants will continue to supply less than 12% of the primary care supplied by the five training forms. Increasing departures to emergency medicine and subspecialty careers, lower activity (inactive, part time), and lower volume of primary care limit physician assistant primary care contributions.

Only if physician assistants or nurse practitioners were required to stay in the family practice mode of care would they be able to increase share of primary care, rural primary care, and underserved primary care duties.

* Myth Number 4: Internal medicine graduates from international medical schools will make significant primary care contributions. Internal medicine residency program graduates from foreign origins and international medical schools will contribute the fewest years of primary care averaging 1.3 SPC years per graduate. The limitations are substantial with lowest primary care retention after graduation, loss of 8 years due to delayed entry into the United States workforce, and losses after graduation including 20% departing the United States for home nations, 8% chronic unemployment, and increasing fractions departing for other nations.[4, 5] Lowest primary care also means lowest rural primary care and underserved primary care. A family practice residency graduate contributes greater than 30 times the rural or underserved primary care per graduate. Changes in the J-1 Visa waiver program and increasing uses of international graduates by the military and teaching hospitals will further limit primary care, rural, and underserved contributions.

* Myth Number 5: The United States is unable to produce enough primary care. Through policy, medical education efforts, and statewide efforts, the US has been consistently successful. The US was able to quadruple primary care graduates in the 1970s. The US increased primary care production 50% during the span of a few years in the 1990s. Historically Black, osteopathic, and many allopathic public schools have been successful for over 100 years. Primary care contributions are maximized when schools and states focus together on health access in birth to admission preparation, admission preferences, training curricula/faculty/locations, and health policy.[6]

To sum up: the only way that the United States can fail to produce primary care is to admit the most exclusive students (lowest probability primary care), train in locations with the least health access emphasis (lowest influence), fail to graduate enough family physicians (permanent form), and create a health policy that rewards the most exclusive careers and locations. This, of course, is exactly how US health care is structured.

* Myth Number 6: Generic expansions of medical school, nurse practitioner, or physician assistant graduates can increase primary care. During the current time period with the worst health access policy in decades, fewer students are choosing primary care and those that can move away from primary care are leaving. Osteopathic (DO) graduates will more than double from 2004 to 2017 but, with the current steady declines in family practice percentages, the end result will be only a gain of 100 more family physicians or a 20% increase despite a 100% increase in graduates. With primary care retention rates dropping steadily at 1 or 2 percentage points each year in the large and growing nurse practitioner and physician assistant pools (over 230,000 combined), new graduates entering the workforce in primary care are not able to keep up with losses of active primary care plus departures from active practice. Only specific expansions of family practitioners that remain in the family practice mode (physicians, nurse practitioners, and physician assistants) can address primary care and health access needs. Retention in the family practice mode is much less likely for NPs and PAs since they can and do depart the family practice mode at any time.

* Myth Number 7: Nurse practitioners make substantial rural primary care contributions. Rural primary care requires both rural location and primary care contributions. While 20-25% of nurse practitioners are rural, they do not have the primary care component. Nurse practitioners contribute 1 rural Standard Primary Care year per graduate (4 SPC years times 25% rural) in rural workforce whereas family physicians contribute 5 Standard Primary Care years per graduate (25 SPC years x 20%) in rural locations.

* Myth Number 8: Primary care is not marketable to the American consumer.[2, 7, 8] It is very hard to understand how respected authorities in leadership positions could make such statements. Only a severe lack of awareness explains their comments. Workforce experts, trainers and educators in major medical centers and medical schools, leaders in the Council of Graduate Medical Education and the Association of American Medical Colleges all live in areas with the highest concentrations of people, physicians, and medical schools. These experts have spent their entire lives in locations that employ the fewest primary care physicians and support primary care at the lowest levels. They have tolerated the training of medical students and residents in dysfunctional primary care settings.[9] It is not surprising that primary care does not appear marketable to those clustered in the 3,300 US zip codes which make up 4% of the land area with 75% of physicians and 95% of medical schools. This limited perspective ignores the 38,000 zip codes in which 65% of the American population and 70% of the elderly are cared for by the remaining 23% of total physicians. In these locations, 30 – 100% of the total physicians are primary care physicians.

The total elimination of health care for millions is unconscionable and this is what is suggested by the statement that primary care is not marketable. The locations that depend upon primary care are also locations that offer better primary care salaries, better primary care support, better practice options to generate more revenue, lower costs of delivering health care, and lower costs of living. Those designing health care for an entire nation must place much more emphasis on care for the 65% of the population left out of the current health care design. All of medicine and medical education will pay dearly for the choices of a few leaders. Current leaders appear to have abandoned Butler’s call to a season of accountability and social responsibility for medical education.[10 ]

* Myth Number 9: The nation needs more pediatric graduates to meet primary care needs. More pediatric graduates will not meet primary care needs. According to pediatric leadership, pediatric primary care is saturated in the locations where pediatricians choose to locate, at the same time that the United States has fewer children. Even though 15% of white female medical students remain committed to pediatric residency choices, they and other pediatric graduates will compete with all other primary care graduates already delivering pediatric primary care. This is likely to result in more practicing in part time, specialty, hospital, urgent, and emergent pediatric care settings.[11]

* Myth Number 10: Care for Age 65 and Up Will Be Provided By Geriatric Specialists. Geriatricians are a small fraction of new physicians, they are less likely to be found in locations with concentrations of older Americans, they have limited support, they have lower volume of patients, and they have some of the most complex patients. Older patients move toward locations with lower costs of living and health care and they move away from concentrations of internal medicine physicians, geriatricians, geriatric training programs, stroke centers, and heart attack centers.[12] They move steadily toward locations served predominantly by family physicians.

National studies confirm patterns of care for the elderly and for all seeking ambulatory care in the United States in 2004. About 62.5% of age 65 and older patients saw a family physician compared to internists for 29%, and somewhat less than 19% seeing a nurse practitioner.[2] This is not what numbers of graduates predict since both internal medicine graduates and nurse practitioner graduates are about twice the number of family practice graduates. In 2004 family physicians led in all but one ambulatory category. In addition to seniors, family physicians were seen by 43.4% of adults seeking care, and 39% seeking women’s health care. The family physician share of 20% was second to pediatricians although family physician percentages increased for children over age 4 and for the 65% of the population beyond concentrations of pediatricians.[2] This is why increased family physicians can address pediatric care needs while more pediatricians cannot.

Myths persist unless they are compared to reality. Primary care must be measured according to a standard and the standard is set by forms of primary care training that produce providers who remain for 35 years of a career, who continue to provide primary care, who remain in the wide range of most needed locations, who continue to serve the populations most in need of care, and who continue to do so whether the current “policy era” is supportive or unsupportive of primary care. For physicians, nurse practitioners, and physician assistants, the standard is set by those that remain in the mode of care known as family practice.



1. Bowman RC. Measuring Primary Care: The Standard Primary Care Year. Rural Remote Health. Jul-Sep 2008;8(3).
2. Ferrer RL. Pursuing equity: contact with primary care and specialist clinicians by demographics, insurance, and health status. Ann Fam Med. Nov-Dec 2007;5(6):492-502.
3. American Academy of Physician Assistants. Data and Statistics. http://www.aapa.org/research/index.html. Accessed October 26, 2006, 2006.
4. International Medical Graduate Section of the American Medical Association. Report on International Medical Graduates. Chicago 2007.
5. Quick Views. J-1 Waivers on the Decline. amednews.com. January 22, 2007.
6. Bruce TA, W.R. N. Improving Rural Health. Little Rock, Arkansas: Rose Publishing Company; 1984.
7. Philibert I. An interview with Carl Getto, MD. ACGME Bulletin. 2004;Spring:10-11.
8. Salsberg E. Physician Workforce Policy Guidelines for the U.S. for 2000–2020. Presented to the Council on Graduate Medical Education. Bethesda, MD. September 17–18, 2003.
9. Keirns CC, Bosk CL. Perspective: the unintended consequences of training residents in dysfunctional outpatient settings. Acad Med. May 2008;83(5):498-502.
10. Butler WT. Academic medicine's season of accountability and social responsibility. Acad Med. Feb 1992;67(2):68-73.
11. Committee on Pediatric Workforce. Pediatrician workforce statement. Pediatrics. Jul 2005;116(1):263-269.
12. Perrotta BL, Perrotta AL. Access to state-of-the-art healthcare: a missing dynamic in consumer selection of a retirement community. J Am Osteopath Assoc. Jun 2008;108(6):297-305.

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WONDERFUL BLUEDOG! Truly GREAT GREAT post! Thanks so much! I appreciate how these intrepretations are evidence-based! :claps::claps::claps:

Q: Myth 4 & 5- Does this mean that the NP's are specializing as well such as GI, Cards, etc? Could you further elucidate?
 
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Q: Myth 4 & 5- Does this mean that the NP's are specializing as well such as GI, Cards, etc? Could you further elucidate?

Like anyone else, mid-levels go where the money is. Presently, it isn't in primary care.
 
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Thanks BD. Let me clarify my question (sometimes what I'm thinking in my head and what comes out of my mouth are entirely different :oops:).


* Myth Number 2: Nurse practitioners will take over more primary care duties. Nurse practitioners will continue to supply less than 12% of the primary care supplied by the five primary care training forms using past measures as well as future estimates.[1, 2] Increasing departures to hospital and specialty careers, lowest activity (inactive, part time), lowest volume of primary care, and greatest delays in entering primary care limit nurse practitioner primary care contributions.

* Myth Number 3: Physician assistants will take over more primary care duties. Less than 30% of new physician assistants enter primary care and active physician assistants will dip below this level in the next 3 years.[3] Physician assistants will continue to supply less than 12% of the primary care supplied by the five training forms. Increasing departures to emergency medicine and subspecialty careers, lower activity (inactive, part time), and lower volume of primary care limit physician assistant primary care contributions.

Only if physician assistants or nurse practitioners were required to stay in the family practice mode of care would they be able to increase share of primary care, rural primary care, and underserved primary care duties.

Based on this, I'm deducing, that it is in fact the specialists that need to be worried about NP, PA's "taking over" their fields rather than the PC doctors? Although, I don't think NP's and PA's can take over the specialists fields, b/c their training will not suffice compared to that of an MD's. (I can't see an NP/PA being trained to perform a colonscopy or cath. Moreover, from my experience the NP's and PA's I've worked with in clinic have great difficulty working up complex cases. The one guy I worked with in Cards clinic practiced cook book pharmaceutical medicine and made quite a many mistakes with the Cardiologist often correcting him).

So really there is no need to worry at all about NP's and PA's in either PC or specialty medicine based on my inferences and experiences, correct?

Thanks :oops:,
A
 
Thanks BD. Let me clarify my question (sometimes what I'm thinking in my head and what comes out of my mouth are entirely different :oops:).




Based on this, I'm deducing, that it is in fact the specialists that need to be worried about NP, PA's "taking over" their fields rather than the PC doctors? Although, I don't think NP's and PA's can take over the specialists fields, b/c their training will not suffice compared to that of an MD's. (I can't see an NP/PA being trained to perform a colonscopy or cath. Moreover, from my experience the NP's and PA's I've worked with in clinic have great difficulty working up complex cases. The one guy I worked with in Cards clinic practiced cook book pharmaceutical medicine and made quite a many mistakes with the Cardiologist often correcting him).

So really there is no need to worry at all about NP's and PA's in either PC or specialty medicine based on my inferences and experiences, correct?

Thanks :oops:,
A

NP's and particularly PA's do complex procedures -one of the favorite examples are surgical PA's assisting in heart bypass surgeries (see the PA forum for more ex's), and their skill/knowledge levels are highly variable, depending on their training and work experiences. But specialists are typically looking for an NP/PA to take some of their clinic volume in order to free them to spend more time on (better paying) procedures. As an example, my son's ENT has an NP to do follow-up/post-op visits, but he's the one in the OR. Like Blue Dog said, specialists can pay more, b/c that one midlevel can make them gobs of extra money, even if it only means one less day of clinic/wk traded for one more day in the OR. For an FP, the pay-off just isn't as good, and you have to take on the extra paperwork, though I think it can be great, especially to alleviate call schedules.

I think if your goal is to see patients in a community health setting (CHC), that you could find it more difficult in the future -just because budgets are so tight, it's cheaper to hire several NPs, with an MD to administrate, perhaps overseeing several sites.
 
Agreed: GREAT post. Truly something to think about. Myths 4, 5, 6, and 8 were very eye-opening to me. It seems things aren't what they seem if you merely scratch the surface without digging deeper. Personally, I'm glad I'm chossing FM and I don't think I will ever look back.
 
To sum up: the only way that the United States can fail to produce primary care is to admit the most exclusive students (lowest probability primary care), train in locations with the least health access emphasis (lowest influence), fail to graduate enough family physicians (permanent form), and create a health policy that rewards the most exclusive careers and locations. This, of course, is exactly how US health care is structured.

You definitely stumbled across a very real part of the problem here.
 
I believe that nurse practitioners and physician assistants will play greater roles in the world of primary care.

Remember, NPs have different prescribing authority based on each state. Some don't require any supervision by a physician and they can operate as an independent primary care provider.

As more NPs get drawn into programs that offer a DNP, we will definitely see some type of shift occur in the primary care arena.
 
(I can't see an NP/PA being trained to perform a colonscopy or cath.

There are gi clinics where pa's do colonoscopies and academic medical ctrs(duke for example) where pa's do diagnostic(not interventional) coronary caths; both after extensive training obviously.
 
It's easier to train somebody to perform a single procedure than it is to teach them how to provide comprehensive primary care.

Frankly, I can't understand why that isn't obvious to everyone.
 
It's easier to train somebody to perform a single procedure than it is to teach them how to provide comprehensive primary care.

I definitely agree. learning an entire specialty is far more difficult than learning procedures.
ANY procedure can be taught using the apprenticeship model while the knowledge base of an entire specialty takes more time and exposure.
 
Wow... very good post, as already mentioned!
 
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I believe that nurse practitioners and physician assistants will play greater roles in the world of primary care.

Remember, NPs have different prescribing authority based on each state. Some don't require any supervision by a physician and they can operate as an independent primary care provider.

As more NPs get drawn into programs that offer a DNP, we will definitely see some type of shift occur in the primary care arena.

I believe NPs and PAs will play greater roles everywhere, not just in primary care. I'm not sure why people believe such shifts will be limited to primary care. There are already specialty training programs for PAs in many specialties. I believe the changes we will see in the American healthcare system will be much more pervasive than just affecting primary care. In fact, primary care may be the least affected field, as some specialties may face greater downward financial pressures that necessitate lower cost options (NPs and PAs for individual procedures, etc). Honestly, I have never understood the mid-level concept that well anyway. In any environment I have ever seen, roles for mid-levels are not terribly well-defined, so they basically practice as a pseudo-physician. It creates a confusing situation at best for patients and often a downright hostile environment for practitioners. It makes it difficult for the physicians as a guild to justify higher compensation from society for performing the same task as a mid-level as well as justifying the added burden of twice the education and twice the educational debt load from students to perform virtually the same role. I suppose we will all just have to adjust to massive upheaval. There simply are not enough doctors to provide healthcare to everyone, and the trend will only worsen. We are essentially in a crisis mode. The question I have is what will happen with all the redefined roles after the crisis is over (after the baby-boom generation has passed away). Whatever happens, I think physicians in America have seen their brightest days, and the party is over. The field will still be able to attract students based on it being interesting or altruistic, but the financial appeal related to the degree of training seems to me to be largely disappearing. The MD as a degree is becoming the next academic PhD equivalent. You do it for the love of learning and whatnot, not because it's explicitly necessary or because it will yield financial benefits worth the effort. I think the trends of some of my negative appraisals began in primary care, so they are often associated with primary care, but the trends are already spreading to other fields beyond primary care.
 
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There are gi clinics where pa's do colonoscopies and academic medical ctrs(duke for example) where pa's do diagnostic(not interventional) coronary caths; both after extensive training obviously.

It would be a cold day in hell before either happened to me, especially the cath. Just sayin'....

... but I do believe that NP's and PA's will assume ever increasing roles in most specialties, not just primary care. As "the fat" is squeezed out of the system, the need for efficiencies will become more pressing. They fill an important role; the real devil will be in finding the balance of oversight.
 
Will there be any oversight at all is the real question?
 
The question I have is what will happen with all the redefined roles after the crisis is over (after the baby-boom generation has passed away).

I hope you aren't expecting the population or disease burden to get any smaller. It won't. Today's fat kids are tomorrow's vasculopaths. Look around you.
 
I hope you aren't expecting the population or disease burden to get any smaller. It won't. Today's fat kids are tomorrow's vasculopaths. Look around you.

Probably true. I'm not saying I wish people to be sick, but major upheavals that could glut the market with mid-level providers or drive down physician reimbursement do concern me while I watch my student debt level rise. I'd like to be able to pay that back and have a decent lifestyle worth the effort. And, since I'm looking at primary care apparently, I'd like to be able to do it in that field. As long as the supply/demand balance of providers remains reasonable, physicians continue to maintain their supervisory roles over mid-levels (this will probably vary based on quality of clinic) and be appropriately compensated for that supervisory effort, and annual average compensation doesn't go below where it is now, I think we'll be alright. If any of these three things fall through, we've got a problem. The Medicare reimbursement mess is a problem. I have begun to hear some outcry among physicians about the looming 20% reimbursement cut. If the Democrats don't garner the votes to solve this problem pretty quickly, it could cast a shadow over the whole plan. I've also heard some uproar over physicians' ability (or lack thereof) to opt-out of any plans they don't wish to accept (eg, public option), which could also be a point of contention. I can't speak specifically to the views of family physicians on these issues though.
 
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I've also heard some uproar over physicians' ability (or lack thereof) to opt-out of any plans they don't wish to accept (eg, public option), which could also be a point of contention.

There currently is no public option.

Physicians can opt out of Medicare. There's no real reason to think that they wouldn't similarly be able to opt out of any public option.

Besides, participating in Medicare doesn't mean you have to accept any new patients. I've been closed to new Medicare patients for years. However, I'm still enrolled in the system, and still take care of existing patients who have Medicare as well as established patients who convert to Medicare.

Even if participation in any public option is tied to participating in Medicare, I can choose whether or not I want to accept patients with that coverage.

It's a free country, after all. Read the Thirteenth Amendment.
 
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Here's the deal: the capacity to "opt out" of Medicare varies from specialty to specialty and employer to employer. If you are the sole provider of a specialty in a given area, while you are not legally obligated to participate, you are significantly pressured to do so. Some specialties, due to disease mix treated, rely heavily upon MC. It is not so simple as to say "just opt out"... assuming we are striving to be intellectually honest about it all. Further, it is entirely within the realm of reason that MC credentialing / participation status could one day be a requisite for hospital privileges.

The inclusion of a public option, depending upon how it is structured, will more likely than not change office management paradigms significantly. It will likely lessen negotiating clout and bring reimbursement rates more in line across provider groups. It will erode the most profitable portions of your business and force changes in scheduling according to disease and severity in an effort to maintain revenues. I believe that RGMSU's point is that lying on our backs and welcoming the violation is counter productive....
 
Here's the deal: the capacity to "opt out" of Medicare varies from specialty to specialty and employer to employer.

I'm not employed. I can opt out any time I want to.

If you are the sole provider of a specialty in a given area, while you are not legally obligated to participate, you are significantly pressured to do so.

Again, not a problem I'll ever need to deal with. Remember which forum you're in.

Further, it is entirely within the realm of reason that MC credentialing / participation status could one day be a requisite for hospital privileges.

Again, not my problem. Nor, I should add, is it anyone's problem at this point. However, nobody should overlook the fact that not being dependent on hospitals for your livelihood is a Good Thing.

The inclusion of a public option, depending upon how it is structured, will more likely than not change office management paradigms significantly. It will likely lessen negotiating clout and bring reimbursement rates more in line across provider groups. It will erode the most profitable portions of your business and force changes in scheduling according to disease and severity in an effort to maintain revenues.

At this point, that's merely your opinion, since no public option exists. The devil lies in the details, as always. Regardless, primary care physicians will likely continue to enjoy more flexibility in how we respond to any health insurance reforms than most specialists.
 
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Blue,

The "myopic" comment was in reference to the narrow view that you are taking in this matter. I agree with you on the vast majority of things, but you obviously have more (and in my opinion, blind) faith in a federal program being an improvement -- despite the precedent set by MC and SS. :confused:

..and you can bet your a** that I have tried to do more than bitch on the internet; both my representative and senators are in agreement... unfortunately they are in the "party of no" (relevance) at this point in time.

edit: and it does not matter if you are FP or specialist -- if you are the sole provider for a population (read rural MD) you have very choice in the matter from a pragmatic and logistics standpoint.
 
I agree with you on the vast majority of things, but you obviously have more (and in my opinion, blind) faith in a federal program being an improvement -- despite the precedent set by MC and SS. :confused:

I'm not sure how you got that.

I'm actually opposed to the public option, and I have no faith in Medicare or CMS. I can read the handwriting on the wall, however.

it does not matter if you are FP or specialist -- if you are the sole provider for a population (read rural MD) you have very choice in the matter from a pragmatic and logistics standpoint.

Sure you do. It just depends on how guilty you feel about looking out for yourself, your family, and your employees as opposed to making yourself a sacrificial lamb on the altar of beneficence.

Hint: If you don't survive economically, you're no good to anybody.
 
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I'm not sure how you got that.

I'm actually opposed to the public option, and I have no faith in Medicare or CMS. I can read the handwriting on the wall, however.



Sure you do. It just depends on how guilty you feel about looking out for yourself, your family, and your employees as opposed to making yourself a sacrificial lamb on the alter of beneficence.

Hint: If you don't survive economically, you're no good to anybody.

I hate it when people write on the wall....... had to get on to my 2yo yesterday for that.:D

I cannot argue with you on the latter point either; what it will (actually, is) dictating is the relocation to a more populace practice location (despite the fact that I went to medical school to bring an unrepresented specialty back home, I too have seen the "writing on the wall" and will not sacrifice self at the altar of CMS and the collectivists).
 
I have heard the charge that current plans being debated may be disadvantageous to rural medicine. I haven't heard the details as to why. That would be a rather bizarre outcome since the point of the reform is purportedly to increase access.
 
Even if participation in any public option is tied to participating in Medicare, I can choose whether or not I want to accept patients with that coverage.

It's a free country, after all. Read the Thirteenth Amendment.

I just hope it stays this way.
 
The inclusion of a public option, depending upon how it is structured, will more likely than not change office management paradigms significantly. It will likely lessen negotiating clout and bring reimbursement rates more in line across provider groups. It will erode the most profitable portions of your business and force changes in scheduling according to disease and severity in an effort to maintain revenues. I believe that RGMSU's point is that lying on our backs and welcoming the violation is counter productive....

This is exactly what I've been driving at. I even wonder how much increased insurance monopoly without a public option (just third party payers in general) will affect office paradigms, variability in reimbursement rates, and erosion of profit margins. I think Blue makes a good point, though, in stating that family med docs stand a better chance of eschewing certain reimbursement schemes than some other docs. It would even be reasonable to be cash only in family med I would think. I would just like to see enough retention of competition in the system so that excellent docs can treat those who are willing to pay and receive better compensation than someone with lesser qualifications or poorer outcomes, rather than taking away the financial incentive to provide excellent care. Or, we need to move away from or supplement fee-for-service to achieve a similar result.
 
This is exactly what I've been driving at. I even wonder how much increased insurance monopoly without a public option (just third party payers in general) will affect office paradigms, variability in reimbursement rates, and erosion of profit margins. I think Blue makes a good point, though, in stating that family med docs stand a better chance of eschewing certain reimbursement schemes than some other docs. It would even be reasonable to be cash only in family med I would think. I would just like to see enough retention of competition in the system so that excellent docs can treat those who are willing to pay and receive better compensation than someone with lesser qualifications or poorer outcomes, rather than taking away the financial incentive to provide excellent care. Or, we need to move away from or supplement fee-for-service to achieve a similar result.

Generally speaking, the lower the per episode transaction price, the greater the laterality (and thus protection) afforded the specialty. High cost specialties will have little protection... or options available to them.

I wonder if primary care will subsidize the specialists in the multispecialty model before long? Who knows......
 
Generally speaking, the lower the per episode transaction price, the greater the laterality (and thus protection) afforded the specialty. High cost specialties will have little protection... or options available to them.

I wonder if primary care will subsidize the specialists in the multispecialty model before long? Who knows......

I doubt it. More like the government will subsidize everybody, no? What is your field of practice MOHS?
 
Mohs micrographic surgery -- a subspecialty of dermatology. As for primary care subsidizing specialists -- there is no way that will happen. If it got to the point where that was happening, they would kick the specialists out (or allow them to die off through attrition). From a business perspective there is absolutely no reason to keep them around if they are consuming more than they produce. The obverse is not true, which is why multispecialty models exist today....
 
Mohs micrographic surgery -- a subspecialty of dermatology. As for primary care subsidizing specialists -- there is no way that will happen. If it got to the point where that was happening, they would kick the specialists out (or allow them to die off through attrition). From a business perspective there is absolutely no reason to keep them around if they are consuming more than they produce. The obverse is not true, which is why multispecialty models exist today....

I'm 99.99999% sure that the pay gap between primary care physicians and specialists will never invert. I don't even necessarily think it will close that radically.
 
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There currently is no public option.

Physicians can opt out of Medicare. There's no real reason to think that they wouldn't similarly be able to opt out of any public option.

Besides, participating in Medicare doesn't mean you have to accept any new patients. I've been closed to new Medicare patients for years. However, I'm still enrolled in the system, and still take care of existing patients who have Medicare as well as established patients who convert to Medicare.

Even if participation in any public option is tied to participating in Medicare, I can choose whether or not I want to accept patients with that coverage.

It's a free country, after all. Read the Thirteenth Amendment.

Funny you should say that, because you obviously havent been keeping up on current events.

In Massachusetts, RIGHT NOW, there is a statute being proposed by the state legislature that ALL PHYSICIANS, must, as a condition of licensure in that state, accept the publicly financed health plan.

Maybe it wont pass, but the fact that its even this far in the approval process is an outrage. Put that in you pipe and smoke it. You are incredibly naive if you think that wont happen on a national scale someday.
 
...In Massachusetts, RIGHT NOW, there is a statute being proposed by the state legislature that ALL PHYSICIANS, must, as a condition of licensure in that state, accept the publicly financed health plan.

Maybe it wont pass, but the fact that its even this far in the approval process is an outrage. Put that in you pipe and smoke it. You are incredibly naive if you think that wont happen on a national scale someday.
Funny you should bring this up as it has been touched upon a little in another thread:
I cringe at the thought... though in the current environment, I wouldn't put it past the elected officials. You can call it "reimbursement" if you like but if you force physicians as condition of license or other criteria to accept and/or only accept government pay for work you are effectively forcing all physicians to become government employees. Fundamentally, I think using licensing as a means to force people restrict their revenue source and/or prevent private industry seems out of line with "...life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...". and probably out of line in other areas too. I would also add that if the right to privacy precludes government from outlawing certain womens health care, I don't see how you can force all patients to be cared for by government healthcare employees.
 
Funny you should say that, because you obviously havent been keeping up on current events.

I know all about what's going on in Massachusetts. As you noted, it's a state issue, it hasn't been passed yet, and it has nothing to do with Medicare.

Not sure why you deemed that worthy of multiple personal attacks in a single post.
 
I did not know about this in Massachusetts. I think it's worth paying attention to, since it seems a lot of what was passed in the nationwide Obamacare bill was modeled after the MA system. Which is currently bankrupting the state, too, from what I understand. If it passes in MA I believe we are in danger of having a similar law passed nationally. It would just be a matter of time.
 
Massachusetts is a good example of what not to do. Mandatory insurance without payment reform simply drives up costs.

http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2009/04/24/er_visits_costs_in_mass_climb/

"The most important way to change patterns of care is to change payments and encourage primary care physicians and the health system to treat conditions early and actively to prevent patients from going to the ER in the first place," he said. "That's the next important reform we need in Massachusetts. It should be part of the legacy of the health insurance law."
 
I hope this is true, but I would like to expand my skill set, I would not like to be just a clinic doctor all my life.
 
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