10% of new grads "scrambling" for work.

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WVUPharm2007 said:
Link.

For St Louis. Per the article above. A pretty good article, actually.

I know, there is a thread already...nobody reads the stickied threads....
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That is a really good article. It sums up what is going on right now perfectly. Your kind of breaking with SDN tradition Mike by posting a current article written on May 30th 2010. Whats wrong with you?
 
MountainPharmD said:
That is a really good article. It sums up what is going on right now perfectly. Your kind of breaking with SDN tradition Mike by posting a current article written on May 30th 2010. Whats wrong with you?
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Oh you mean this was not written in 2003? Dang good stuff. I will actually read it then.
 
Great article and find WVU.

Wonder if this will be a wake-up call to any pre-pharm or pharmacy student here. (as well as some pharmacists)

The age of C's and D's and make XX(X) G's is over......
 
It would be interesting to me to see who the 10% that are scrambling actually are. I wonder what they did or who they networked with as a student and what kind of internship they did. I think that having a 90% chance of securing a "six-figure" income after graduation is still pretty good odds. I'm sure that percentage will change depending on the outcome of Healthcarapalooza '010 and whether or not money begins growing on trees again.

At the hospital group I currently intern at I try and keep track of the open pharmacist positions and right now there's six or seven open positions. At least two of those are director positions, one is clinical, one is full-time staff, and one or two are part-time or prn. The open positions seem to mirror what the article describes as a shift to clinical/business oriented pharmacists. Directors seem to be hard to come by these days, I know I wouldn't want that job.
 
Great article. I'd also be interested to see what the proportion is like in major metro areas with multiple schools...10% seems like it would be the low end of the estimate.

I also wonder how many of those folks that can't find a job ended up entering the Match for lack of better options.
 
Praziquantel86 said:
I'd also be interested to see what the proportion is like in major metro areas with multiple schools...10% seems like it would be the low end of the estimate.
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My thoughts exactly. I wouldn't think St. Louis as being a saturated market with only 1 school in the area. The real issue arises if a diploma mill opens up down the road.

States without dimploma mills (exception NJ since bordering states seem to have multiple schools) have been less affected by saturation.. look at Mississippi..
 
Its Z said:
My thoughts exactly. I wouldn't think St. Louis as being a saturated market with only 1 school in the area. The real issue arises if a diploma mill opens up down the road.

States without dimploma mills (exception NJ since bordering states seem to have multiple schools) have been less affected by saturation.. look at Mississippi..
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The thing though is, who wants to live in Mississippi?:meanie:
 
I think at least for the next 5 years, the job market for new grad pharmacists is only going to get worse.
 
gotdrugs said:
Great article and find WVU.

Wonder if this will be a wake-up call to any pre-pharm or pharmacy student here. (as well as some pharmacists)

The age of C's and D's and make XX(X) G's is over......
Click to expand...

ah yes..

the first thing to look for when you have multiple candidates applying for the same job is grades!! 👍:meanie:

good article! seems well balanced, short on the hyperbole too!
 
Its Z said:
My thoughts exactly. I wouldn't think St. Louis as being a saturated market with only 1 school in the area. The real issue arises if a diploma mill opens up down the road.
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.
 
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medicalCPA said:
The thing though is, who wants to live in Mississippi?:meanie:
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I would, because I like people from mississippi :laugh:

I've met only some of them from going to a private school, but I assume most of them would be similar to the ones I know.

Oh, and I heard there's a casino somewhere. I'm sure I'd check it out once or twice, but I'm not much of a gambling person.
 
letjin said:
Already happened. SIUE (~20 miles from STLCOP/Wash.U.) opened a new pharmacy school 5 years ago and graduated 2 classes. This is one of the causes of the area saturation.
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Then I stand corrected hence saturation of pharmacists is imminent. Matter of time before the 10% number becomes higher.
 
type b pharmD said:
ah yes..

the first thing to look for when you have multiple candidates applying for the same job is grades!! 👍:meanie:

good article! seems well balanced, short on the hyperbole too!
Click to expand...

Way to jump the gun there buddy.

By zero means was I saying that grades were the end-all/be-all, just that from the mid 90's until a year (maybe two) ago, grades (and everything else) was almost completely irrelevent, if you just graduated, you were guaranteed a job paying XX(X) thousands of dollars.

For example, when I graduated in the mid-90's the saying was "make C's and D's and get 50 G's."

The sentiment of the statement (meaning it didn't matter what you did as long as you graduated you were secured a job) is gone and that was my point.

But by all means, carry on..........
 
type b pharmD said:
ah yes..

the first thing to look for when you have multiple candidates applying for the same job is grades!! 👍:meanie:

good article! seems well balanced, short on the hyperbole too!
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You wouldn't look at work experiences or possible recommendations from preceptors?
 
crazybob said:
You wouldn't look at work experiences or possible recommendations from preceptors?
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Crazybob, that is crazy talk!

pumpkin_smash_400_420.jpg
 
Considering it's only been like 2 weeks since graduation, 90% with six figure jobs / residencies is not bad.

The only reason new pharmacy grads are scrambling for work is because of student loans. If schools were cheaper, there would be no need to scramble for work. I think many new pharmacy grads are less worried about finding a job than paying off their student loans.
 
Its Z said:
My thoughts exactly. I wouldn't think St. Louis as being a saturated market with only 1 school in the area. The real issue arises if a diploma mill opens up down the road.

States without dimploma mills (exception NJ since bordering states seem to have multiple schools) have been less affected by saturation.. look at Mississippi..
Click to expand...

This is why I love my state. There are two decent colleges here and ONE pharmacy school. This will not change.
 
I wish our school would have more workshops and business-type classes vs. the traditional coursework..
 
jinga said:
This is why I love my state. There are two decent colleges here and ONE pharmacy school. This will not change.
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Oh yeah? I'ma come start a pharmacy school in your state... :meanie:
 
crazybob said:
You wouldn't look at work experiences or possible recommendations from preceptors?
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was joking.. hah. my employer at least told me grades were more or less irrelevant to him when i was hired.
 
jinga said:
This is why I love my state. There are two decent colleges here and ONE pharmacy school. This will not change.
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That's what we thought in West Virginia when we had 1 school back in '03 when I was admitted to Rx school, too. Now we apparently have 2 open and 2 working on it.
 
I know, there is a thread already...nobody reads the stickied threads
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They don't use the search function either, but we still have it.:meanie:
At least this is a good article. I can hold off til more people have read it.
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looks like a good article to move into the pre-pharm forum as well.
 
type b pharmD said:
was joking.. hah. my employer at least told me grades were more or less irrelevant to him when i was hired.
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Retail settings... work experience matters more.

Hospital settings... I am sure grade is a huge factor.

All in all when hiring, it is all about networking and being in the right spot at the right time.
 
jinga said:
This is why I love my state. There are two decent colleges here and ONE pharmacy school. This will not change.
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My state has one decent college and no pharmacy schools. So? The job market in northern DE is still getting saturated because people from neighboring states are taking jobs there since everything else is saturated. I would imagine Southern DE still has jobs, but I would bet that will be all full soon as well.
 
Its Z said:
My thoughts exactly. I wouldn't think St. Louis as being a saturated market with only 1 school in the area. The real issue arises if a diploma mill opens up down the road.

States without dimploma mills (exception NJ since bordering states seem to have multiple schools) have been less affected by saturation.. look at Mississippi..
Click to expand...

Rutgers in NJ graduates almost 300 pharmacists a year. I would call that a diploma mill. Most schools graduate 80-125. Rutgers is graduating around 3x as many. There is also supposed to be another pharmacy school in NJ opening in north NJ.
 
PharmaTope said:
Rutgers in NJ graduates almost 300 pharmacists a year. I would call that a diploma mill. Most schools graduate 80-125. Rutgers is graduating around 3x as many. There is also supposed to be another pharmacy school in NJ opening in north NJ.
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Just because it graduates a large number of pharmacists does not mean that it is a "diploma mill". I've never heard of Rutgers providing a substandard level of education and just hands out degrees if you pay the money. I believe that phrase is used a little too frequently on these forums.
 
PharmaTope said:
Rutgers in NJ graduates almost 300 pharmacists a year. I would call that a diploma mill. Most schools graduate 80-125. Rutgers is graduating around 3x as many. There is also supposed to be another pharmacy school in NJ opening in north NJ.
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Rutgers is a reputable pharmacy school not a diploma mill.
 
PharmaTope said:
Rutgers in NJ graduates almost 300 pharmacists a year. I would call that a diploma mill. Most schools graduate 80-125. Rutgers is graduating around 3x as many. There is also supposed to be another pharmacy school in NJ opening in north NJ.
Click to expand...

Contributing to the overproduction of pharmacists moreso than other schools? Yes. Diploma mill? No.

Now, if any new schools were putting out a class of 300+, then yes, major diploma mill.
 
PharmaTope said:
Rutgers in NJ graduates almost 300 pharmacists a year. I would call that a diploma mill. Most schools graduate 80-125. Rutgers is graduating around 3x as many. There is also supposed to be another pharmacy school in NJ opening in north NJ.
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more like 200
 
Argentium said:
more like 200
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i know for a fact the numbers exceeded 200 and were closer to 300 (at graduation time) with actual numbers of students enrolled in their curriculumn exceeding 300.
 
bacillus1 said:
My state has one decent college and no pharmacy schools. So? The job market in northern DE is still getting saturated because people from neighboring states are taking jobs there since everything else is saturated. I would imagine Southern DE still has jobs, but I would bet that will be all full soon as well.
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Ok, I live in South Dakota. The jig is up. North Dakota still mandates that 50% of pharmacies are privately owned. I'm making plans for independent ownership in my 10-year future. I worked for an independent for a year in rural Nebraska; it was very very successful.

Has anyone here heard of Wall Drug in Wall, SD? It's probably the most successful pharmacy in the whole state.

My pharmacy education will cost me ~$50K. I'm not too worried. I've worked on farms, construction, confinements, restaurants, as a tutor, everything. If I can't find a job, I'll make something happen.

I could probably build my own pharmacy with my construction experience.
 
jinga said:
Ok, I live in South Dakota. The jig is up. North Dakota still mandates that 50% of pharmacies are privately owned. I'm making plans for independent ownership in my 10-year future. I worked for an independent for a year in rural Nebraska; it was very very successful.

Has anyone here heard of Wall Drug in Wall, SD? It's probably the most successful pharmacy in the whole state.

My pharmacy education will cost me ~$50K. I'm not too worried. I've worked on farms, construction, confinements, restaurants, as a tutor, everything. If I can't find a job, I'll make something happen.

I could probably build my own pharmacy with my construction experience.
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Now I know why the other person I know from SD refers to May's Drug Warehouse as "Wall Drug"!

I seriously considered applying to SD State COP because it was crazy cheap, even for OOS.

EDIT: And Mike, the article was a good one.
 
South Dakota is a fine school. We had a student rotate at our hospital who was from there and the pharmacists all raved about her clinical knowledge. Lots of opportunities to work with IHS, too.
 
njac said:
nope. New Mexico has UNM.

And for 2 colleges, UNM and NMSU.
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Don't you love rural living? It's actually pretty nice to live in an area that 98% of the US population hates 🙂

Makes for easier job-hunting. If only they knew.
 
PharmaTope said:
Rutgers in NJ graduates almost 300 pharmacists a year. I would call that a diploma mill. Most schools graduate 80-125. Rutgers is graduating around 3x as many. There is also supposed to be another pharmacy school in NJ opening in north NJ.
Click to expand...

You have no idea what your talking about, Ernest Mario SOP is probably one of the toughest programs to get into, your reasoning of would also label USP as a diploma mill too as it pumps out more than, if not close to Rutgers class size.

Farleigh Dickinson on the other hand...
 
Filler said:
You have no idea what your talking about, Ernest Mario SOP is probably one of the toughest programs to get into, your reasoning of would also label USP as a diploma mill too as it pumps out more than, if not close to Rutgers class size.

Farleigh Dickinson on the other hand...
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Rutgers is a great school, no doubt about it. Don't go too hard on the guy though....Rutgers does have a few "typical diploma mill" characteristics (0-6 program, huge class size) that could throw off someone who hadn't really heard of the school before.
 
p-rog said:
Rutgers is a great school, no doubt about it. Don't go too hard on the guy though....Rutgers does have a few "typical diploma mill" characteristics (0-6 program, huge class size) that could throw off someone who hadn't really heard of the school before.
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There's not a high demand for pharmacists among people who live under rocks.
 
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