MeaCulpa

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gasdoc77

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Be prepared for the many naysayers.....meanwhile, they would readily prescribe Metformin (ahem, french lilac) to a diabetic. :unsure:
 
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I do take vitamin D because I have low levels and I eat a lot of citrus fruits. I do think there may be some merit but this is too reminiscent of Paul Marik's vitamin c/thiamine/steroids miracle cure that amounted to nothing.
 
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For the amateurs playing critical care out there: the in-vivo practice of critical care is MUCH different than the in-vitro theories. Also, one should wonder about Marik's credibility, when nobody has been able to reproduce the results of his famous sepsis protocol. Let's not mention all the miracle drugs that have been proven useless in Covid-19; not all that glitters is gold.

So, until there are some properly done PROSPECTIVE trials, all this is BS. One can use them for one's health (I take relatively high doses of vitamin D regularly, and C when I have an infection), but to preach about them online (especially while also pushing against Covid-19 vaccines) is, in my eyes, a sign of lack of medical judgment.
 
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FFP

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If someone cannot have a constructive dialogue and must be attack like a ***** flailing around in the dark, you will just be blocked. I enjoy critical feedback. Attention starved individuals needing confrontation to fill the void in their empty lives, aren’t my cup of tea. Social media feeds this unmet need of anger present in many people’s lives. My guess is the people who get wildly angry at random people on the internet are most like addictive personalities. My guess they have a drug addiction or are in recovery. I don’t have time for the bull****
Dude, you do NOT know medicine. It's not the first thread where you're advertising your ignorance. People like you do make me angry, because I see them hurt patients all the time. ALL THE TIME. And most patients are way too uneducated to even suspect it, even when they keep feeling worse (it's the disease, never the doctor).

The only constructive dialogue to have here starts with: Show me the prospective double-blinded RCT! Anything else is mostly BS, unless a ton of doctors from all around the world can repeat and confirm the experiment.

The problem with these papers is usually something so simple even a fifth grader could understand: CORRELATION DOESN"T MEAN CAUSATION. There are a sh!t-ton of useless medical articles written around observations of correlations, that have been proved wrong later. A TON! That's why many prestigious journals had stopped publishing case reports before Covid-19.

Interventions that only work "in mild cases", or only "if started early", or only after X days of "prophylactic" treatment, are usually just quack material. 90% of the stuff I do/use in the ICU that I don't have an RCT for is stuff that makes the patient better in a matter of hours, if not minutes, and every patient, not just some.

I am a big Marik fan, because he's written an excellent CCM book which I learned a lot from (and he has done great public service with his crusade against fluids in sepsis), but only the blind can't see that the man is a narcissist in a wild goose chase for a legacy (if not a Nobel prize). It may be just sheer passion, but one should know better than preach unproven stuff, especially as a university professor.
 
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My Personal Prophylaxis for COVID-19 was getting the COVID-19 vaccine that is 94% effective at preventing one from getting severe COVID-19.
 
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gasdoc77

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As a physician scientist who believes there is no such thing as settled science, I always weigh risk vs benefit. Unless I see risk in the aforementioned supplements at said doses beyond expensive urine, and there is plausible benefit, I see no harm in taking and recommending them. This doesn't imply that they are a cure or a substitute for an effective vaccine.
 
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NICMAN

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Paul Marik MD, ABC, DEF, XYZ took the opportunity to write in all his pet theories into emergency Sentara COVID ICU protocols in March. His protocols were immediately rescinded by all hospitals where EVMS operates.
Unfortunately I know well where the original poster comes from: a Utah culture steeped in quasi-religious naturopathic remedies and built on a billion-dollar industry of pseudoscience that those of us evidence-based MDs and PhD are ashamed to constantly have to answer for. This is probably a fairly benign manifestation but when you see people rake in millions off of false advertising and snake oil selling to those who don’t know any better it is just shameful.
 
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FFP

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As a physician scientist who believes there is no such thing as settled science, I always weigh risk vs benefit. Unless I see risk in the aforementioned supplements at said doses beyond expensive urine, and there is plausible benefit, I see no harm in taking and recommending them. This doesn't imply that they are a cure or a substitute for an effective vaccine.
Sometimes there is harm. Just because something exists in nature, it doesn't mean it's harmless, especially when given IV (the body seems to have better defenses against PO human stupidity).

Let me give an example. Most patients with sepsis will have hypocalcemia; give them calcium to replace it and you'll actually harm them.

Another one. Patients with sepsis may have a deficit of ADH. Give them 0.03 U/min, it may help; give them 0.1 U/min or more, and it will probably harm the patient.

tl;dr: We still don't know crap (in medicine, in general). But we actually DO know that some vaccines seem to prevent severe Covid-19, which is an awful disease.
 
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NICMAN

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Not to mention that this kind of natural supplements hawking often goes hand-in-hand with antivaxer and antimaskers and those who think midwives make better high-risk Obstetricians than actual MDs.
 
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NICMAN

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The harm is that people are vacuuming up billions of dollars selling this stuff that has no actual definitive evidence (I am talking about the Utah-based supplement industry specifically which the OP seems to be a part).
 
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Matthew9Thirtyfive

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There are only a couple trials on vitamin D and covid and they had conflicting results. The only positive trial had like 40 patients (16 in the treatment arm). Vitamin D has been correlated with everything under the sun with almost none of those things being linked to a benefit in RCTs.
 
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The only positive trial had 16 patients in the treatment arm? That is just wrong. I am not sure why people insist on stating falsehoods in order to make their arguments. If you are going to misrepresent facts in order to make an argument, it doesn't help bolster your case, it just weakens it. Your last statement is another throw out there statement with no basis to the topic at hand.


If you’re referring to the Spain pilot study, I’m not sure you want to hang your hat on that. The effect size is absolutely enormous and there was like a 48% absolute risk reduction for ICU admission with zero deaths in the treatment arm. Clearly something is amiss there.
 
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If you’re referring to the Spain pilot study, I’m not sure you want to hang your hat on that. The effect size is absolutely enormous and there was like a 48% absolute risk reduction for ICU admission with zero deaths in the treatment arm. Clearly something is amiss there.
The cohorts were not even matched in the study.

VitD group: 24% with hypertension. 6% with diabetes

Not receiving VitD group: 58% with hypertension. 20% with diabetes.



Hmmm, wonder why VitD group did so well comparatively...
 
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gasdoc77

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You are committing libel. I am presenting information put forth in journal articles, these are not even my own words, but the words repeated from articles.
You state that before we can recommend treatments we need to have research done to ensure that the treatment is not causing harm and that those studies need to be reproducible. And yet you are sounding the drum on a novel drug that has not been thoroughly studied and is being given to all populations throughout the world based on very little data. However to question your dogma, is advertising ignorance.

Hurt patients all the time? You are such an ass. Many of the docs where I work ask for me to personally perform their anesthetic. These are docs from all throughout the hospital, internists who receive my patients on the wards. I have, what I believe to be a good reputation. You are carefree with your characterization of my professional abilities. This is in fact libel. I have never questioned anyones clinical competence or skills in this or in any forum as it would not be my place to do so. This is completely unacceptable, although with the mob like behavior and lack of administrative oversight present on this forum, it appears the administrators care more for being popular and part of the crowd then they do for moderation.
There is a degree of gaslighting that occurs on this forum if you think outside the box. I personally find alternative opinions refreshing, lest we find ourselves in an echo chamber. Some ideas I consider, some I discard. None do I find threatening to me professionally or personally.
 
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As a physician scientist who believes there is no such thing as settled science, I always weigh risk vs benefit. Unless I see risk in the aforementioned supplements at said doses beyond expensive urine, and there is plausible benefit, I see no harm in taking and recommending them. This doesn't imply that they are a cure or a substitute for an effective vaccine.

Have long term adverse effects of these supplements at these doses been studied? Do they get the same followup as vaccines? If nobody looks....
 
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nimbus

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The only positive trial had 16 patients in the treatment arm? That is just wrong. I am not sure why people insist on stating falsehoods in order to make their arguments. If you are going to misrepresent facts in order to make an argument, it doesn't help bolster your case, it just weakens it. Your last statement is another throw out there statement with no basis to the topic at hand.


They’re making inferences based on correlation, that low vitamin D levels are correlated with worse outcomes. That does NOT mean supplementing vitamin D will improve outcomes. It could have the opposite effect or no effect. We cannot know without a RCT.

There’s no trial I know of that shows vitamin D supplementation prevents or improves outcome in COVID 19 like we have for dexamethasone and the vaccines. If you know of one, please post it.
 
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Have long term adverse effects of these supplements at these doses been studied? Do they get the same followup as vaccines? If nobody looks....
I learned that high dose Vitamin C causes renal failure from precipitation. And this is PO 50mg/kg as recommended by CDC. Not the crazy doses that Marik recommends IV. And IV Vit C is ridiculously expensive.

Do y’all know the number of people that call us and ask for the MATH+ protocol for their family members? Like do I call your job and suggest how to fix my damn car because I read it online?
 
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FFP

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There is a degree of gaslighting that occurs on this forum if you think outside the box. I personally find alternative opinions refreshing, lest we find ourselves in an echo chamber. Some ideas I consider, some I discard. None do I find threatening to me professionally or personally.
Oh, please! Nobody gets gaslighted for being a good doctor. On the contrary, that's how people make their names here. The more we learn from somebody, the more we respect them.

It's not by chance that some of OP's most vehement critics are anesthesiologist-intensivists. It's the nature of our subspecialty to be skeptical about most medical "science", because the number of "conclusions" that we can't reproduce IRL is higher by many degrees of magnitude than those which truly change outcomes. We have learned to be very skeptical about most papers and claims, and to always look for secondary gain, biases etc. We would be 90+% right even if we said that a paper was useless sight unseen, that's how bad most published medical studies are, even in the big journals. Nobody has ever gotten fired for publishing a medical paper whose results could not be reproduced. Right now, we are downright allergic to anybody pushing vitamin therapies, given the recent failure to prove that Marik's HAT protocol was superior to hydrocortisone in sepsis. If I were to guess, MATH+ won't be superior to just M+H either.

I tell my family to take their vitamins C and D, and zinc, because it probably won't hurt them, absent an alternative (but it won't help them that much either - there are no RCTs on the subject). I also tell them to get vaccinated against Covid-19 if they get the chance (because THAT has 32,000 cases in its favor, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of awful cases, many dead). At this point, there is no medication that can consistently change outcomes in Covid-19 (even the monoclonal antibodies are hit and miss). So let me be skeptical about anybody who pleads against vaccination in one thread and for vitamin therapy in another.

Btw, I was one of the guys who voted No about getting a Covid-19 vaccine, just weeks ago, and still ended up getting one.
 
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FFP

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Since we are on the subject of placebo effects, correlation # causation, and biologically plausible-mechanisms...


 
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dhb

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Oh, please! Nobody gets gaslighted for being a good doctor. On the contrary, that's how people make their names here. The more we learn from somebody, the more we respect them.

It's not by chance that some of OP's most vehement critics are anesthesiologist-intensivists. It's the nature of our subspecialty to be skeptical about most medical "science", because the number of "conclusions" that we can't reproduce IRL is higher by many degrees of magnitude than those which truly change outcomes. We have learned to be very skeptical about most papers and claims, and to always look for secondary gain, biases etc. We would be 90+% right even if we said that a paper was useless sight unseen, that's how bad most published medical studies are, even in the big journals. Nobody has ever gotten fired for publishing a medical paper whose results could not be reproduced. Right now, we are downright allergic to anybody pushing vitamin therapies, given the recent failure to prove that Marik's HAT protocol was superior to hydrocortisone in sepsis. If I were to guess, MATH+ won't be superior to just M+H either.

I tell my family to take their vitamins C and D, and zinc, because it probably won't hurt them, absent an alternative (but it won't help them that much either - there are no RCTs on the subject). I also tell them to get vaccinated against Covid-19 if they get the chance (because THAT has 32,000 cases in its favor, not to mention the hundreds of thousands of awful cases, many dead). At this point, there is no medication that can consistently change outcomes in Covid-19 (even the monoclonal antibodies are hit and miss). So let me be skeptical about anybody who pleads against vaccination in one thread and for vitamin therapy in another.

Btw, I was one of the guys who voted No about getting a Covid-19 vaccine, just weeks ago, and still ended up getting one.
FFP is back with the hammer ( and the sickle :rofl: )
 
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They’re making inferences based on correlation, that low vitamin D levels are correlated with worse outcomes. That does NOT mean supplementing vitamin D will improve outcomes. It could have the opposite effect or no effect. We cannot know without a RCT.

There’s no trial I know of that shows vitamin D supplementation prevents or improves outcome in COVID 19 like we have for dexamethasone and the vaccines. If you know of one, please post it.
This.

Since I'm not as learned as most of y'all, I'll pull in a primary care example.

We know that high HDL is protective against CV disease. We know niacin raises HDL.

Multiple trials have shown that niacin doesn't reduce CV risk.
 
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BLADEMDA

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I think taking some supplements during this crazy period of Covid 19 is reasonable provided the amount isn't massive. For example, I am taking Zinc 15 mg PO per day plus some low dose VIt C and Vit D. This is in addition to my vaccine shot. Once the crisis blows over I will drop the extra supplements.

First do no harm. That means avoiding massive doses of unproven supplements and use some common sense. These supplements may NOT be benign when given in large doses over a long period of time.
 
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Matthew9Thirtyfive

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This.

Since I'm not as learned as most of y'all, I'll pull in a primary care example.

We know that high HDL is protective against CV disease. We know niacin raises HDL.

Multiple trials have shown that niacin doesn't reduce CV risk.

There are several examples of this you can use with vitamin D too, including cardiovascular risk.
 

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I think taking some supplements during this crazy period of Covid 19 is reasonable provided the amount isn't massive. For example, I am taking Zinc 15 mg PO per day plus some low dose VIt C and Vit D. This is in addition to my vaccine shot. Once the crisis blows over I will drop the extra supplements.

First do no harm. That means avoiding massive doses of unproven supplements and use some common sense. These supplements may NOT be benign when given in large doses over a long period of time.

Yeah I actually think vitamin D is probably not a bad idea given that so many of us have spent more time indoors that we normally would because of the pandemic. But that’s not because it is some miracle covid cure.
 
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Another excellent survey of data regarding VitD3


Within the first 30 seconds they already show their bias. The evidence is not continuing to grow for the use of vitamin D in preventing COVID. There is a growing body of evidence that vitamin D deficiency is correlated with increased risk of COVID and in morbidity and mortality in COVID. There is still no good evidence that supplementation of vitamin D has any benefit in COVID. There is one extremely small trial that shows a benefit, another trial that shows no benefit on LOS (primary outcome was length of hospital stay, and secondary outcome was mortality, but since it wasn’t powered for that we can’t really say much more than that), and a bogus study out of Spain that clearly has problems given it’s insane results.

There is also a study that looked at folks with a genetic predisposition to vitamin D deficiency and COVID, and they actually had better outcomes.

So no, there isn’t a growing body of evidence that vitamin D supplementation is beneficial, unless you want to completely forget everything we learned about stats and research and just pretend correlation = causation. I am highly suspicious of anyone pushing supplements that have no data.
 
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Matthew9Thirtyfive

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42% of Americans are vitamin D deficient. The vaccine is not entirely effective in preventing severe COVID infection in patients. It would seem that ensuring that all Americans are non vitamin D deficient would be a positive public health initiative (or at a minimum high risk populations such as the elderly). I take vitamin as does everyone in my household as the risk is negligible but the benefit could certainly be life saving.

So you are saying that the two vaccines that showed 95% efficacy in preventing COVID are not the way forward, but unproven vitamin D supplements that have no data to support their use? Are you really saying that?
 
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Within the first 30 seconds they already show their bias. The evidence is not continuing to grow for the use of vitamin D in preventing COVID. There is a growing body of evidence that vitamin D deficiency is correlated with increased risk of COVID and in morbidity and mortality in COVID. There is still no good evidence that supplementation of vitamin D has any benefit in COVID. There is one extremely small trial that shows a benefit, another trial that shows no benefit on LOS (primary outcome was length of hospital stay, and secondary outcome was mortality, but since it wasn’t powered for that we can’t really say much more than that), and a bogus study out of Spain that clearly has problems given it’s insane results.

There is also a study that looked at folks with a genetic predisposition to vitamin D deficiency and COVID, and they actually had better outcomes.

So no, there isn’t a growing body of evidence that vitamin D supplementation is beneficial, unless you want to completely forget everything we learned about stats and research and just pretend correlation = causation. I am highly suspicious of anyone pushing supplements that have no data.

Moments before a famous Shakespearean actor was to perform Hamlet to a packed house in New York, he dropped dead. The house manager solemnly went onstage and announced, "We are sorry to bring you this news, but our performance tonight has been canceled due to the untimely demise of our featured performer."

From the back of the theater a voice cried out, "Give him some chicken soup!"

Startled, the stage manager cleared his throat and replied, "I apologize if in my grief I have not made my solemn message clear. The man is deceased."

Once again, but more emphatically the voice rang out, "Give him some chicken soup!"

Having had quite enough, the manager bellowed back, "Sir, the man is dead! Giving him chicken soup couldn't possibly help."

To which the voice replied, "Well, it couldn't hurt!"
 
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Again, you are making a statement I have not made. I never said the vaccine is not the way forward. What I have said is that we have no information on the long term risks of this vaccine. I have said, for me, the risk of the virus is extremely low, but I have zero ability to quantify the long term risk of the vaccine as there is zero data on the long term risks of the vaccine.
What I have said is that the data on VitD is thus far showing it may be beneficial, and that many people in the US are deficient. The risk of correcting VitD levels is low, and may have a major benefit.

I didn’t say you said that. I asked if you said that.

mRNA vaccines have been in human trials for 9 years. We have no evidence of significant long term side effects.

And there isn’t data showing vitD correction is beneficial in COVID. Saying there is such data is a gross misrepresentation of the literature (which they said in that video).
 
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42% of Americans are vitamin D deficient. The vaccine is not entirely effective in preventing severe COVID infection in patients. It would seem that ensuring that all Americans are non vitamin D deficient would be a positive public health initiative (or at a minimum high risk populations such as the elderly). I take vitamin as does everyone in my household as the risk is negligible but the benefit could certainly be life saving.
Vitamin D has been touted as some magic bullet for years now. I remember in residency hearing some "groundbreaking " research that Vit D deficiency was associated with poor pregnancy outcomes and all we had to do was supplement people and we could cure pre eclampsia. That was 7 years ago and nothing has come of it.

I just don't think it is as simple as supplementing with vitamins to prevent or treat COVID.

At the end of the day, vaccinating and avoiding other people with Covid (difficult for a lot of us) is the way to manage this.

I also carry a rock in my pocket and I haven't gotten COVID yet.

 
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Actually there is data, you just chose to not believe it. There have been vaccines in production (non mRNA) that have not had issues, but then RSV vaccine caused issues. I am done responding to you. You didnt ask me a question. You lie to yourself. I am not interested.

Lol what? Anyone who calls you out on your logical fallacies gets accused of libel, but you feel free to misrepresent data and attack people personally. The mental gymnastics here are staggering.
 
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Lol what? Anyone who calls you out on your logical fallacies gets accused of libel, but you feel free to misrepresent data and attack people personally. The mental gymnastics here are staggering.

He's Donald Trump in a white coat. He posts for an echo chamber. When he doesn't get it he ignores and dismisses. He'd rather pander nonproven vitamins, zinc, and melatonin over the only real hope this country has of getting through COVID in 2021 - a vaccine. Because, well, you know, long term data and all. As if there's long term data to support vitamins, zinc, melatonin, and other hand waving that cures ARDS, sepsis, and COVID19.

The most troubling part is that he isn't pandering to the lay public. He's pandering to his physician peer group, and gets frustrated and ignores us when we call out BS for BS.

All physicians should learn to critically evaluate the evidence during their training. Either they don't, or most unfortunate, they do but push it aside for the sake of political belief in a time of strife within our country. Either way, I'm glad some amongst us are calling this out for what it is. Pure BS.
 
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MeaCulpa

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He's Donald Trump in a white coat. He posts for an echo chamber. When he doesn't get it he ignores and dismisses. He'd rather pander nonproven vitamins, zinc, and melatonin over the only real hope this country has of getting through COVID in 2021 - a vaccine. Because, well, you know, long term data and all. As if there's long term data to support vitamins, zinc, melatonin, and other hand waving that cures ARDS, sepsis, and COVID19.

The most troubling part is that he isn't pandering to the lay public. He's pandering to his physician peer group, and gets frustrated and ignores us when we call out BS for BS.

All physicians should learn to critically evaluate the evidence during their training. Either they don't, or most unfortunate, they do but push it aside for the sake of political belief in a time of strife within our country. Either way, I'm glad some amongst us are calling this out for what it is. Pure BS.
Actually that isn't what is happening at all. Dr John Campbell is also adamant about VitD3. He is asking why there is not any large randomized trials in queue from major health organizations, and rightly so.
I dismiss people who, as you are doing here, who instead of making a counter argument would rather attack me.

Let me reiterate for the nth time, for myself, the risk of COVID is extremely small. The risk of the vaccine is unknown. How can I further decrease my risk from this virus in a way of very little risk and possible huge benefit? That is what I have presented. This has caused people to attack. I am not the one in an echo chamber. I openly support others to dialogue in a respectful way. But I will be leaving, you can go back to everyone in a discussion agreeing. It is better for you that way because you are outside any echo chamber. Having everyone agree with you and viciously attacking the one person with a counter view is most definitely not an echo chamber.
 
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Actually that isn't what is happening at all. Dr John Campbell is also adamant about VitD3. He is asking why there is not any large randomized trials in queue from major health organizations, and rightly so.
I dismiss people who, as you are doing here, who instead of making a counter argument would rather attack me.

Let me reiterate for the nth time, for myself, the risk of COVID is extremely small. The risk of the vaccine is unknown. How can I further decrease my risk from this virus in a way of very little risk and possible huge benefit? That is what I have presented. This has caused people to attack. I am not the one in an echo chamber. I openly support others to dialogue in a respectful way. But I will be leaving, you can go back to everyone in a discussion agreeing. It is better for you that way because you are outside any echo chamber. Having everyone agree with you and viciously attacking the one person with a counter view is most definitely not an echo chamber.
DOCTOR John Campbell? You mean John Campbell, retired Accident and Emergency nurse, Ph.D.? ;)

Yeah, that's definitely where I will get my critical care CME from.

"Hello Everyone, My name is John Campbell and I am a retired Nurse Teacher and A and E nurse based in England. I also do some teaching in Asia and Africa when time permits. These videos are to help students to learn the background to all forms of health care. My PhD focured on the development of open learning resources for nurses nationally and internationally."
 
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MeaCulpa

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Yes, you aren't telling me anything I didnt know. Who cares where you get your CME from? He is evaluating data and presenting it to people. He supplies non biased data analysis. What is your issue now?

Prof. John Campbell, PhD

Associate Director, Research and Development​

Scottish National Blood Transfusion Service, Edinburgh​

You know what? Scrap my question, I don't even care about your point. I don't want to go back and forth with you or anyone else about nonsense.
 
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FFP

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Yes, you aren't telling me anything I didnt know. Who cares where you get your CME from? He is evaluating data and presenting it to people. He supplies non biased data analysis. What is your issue now?

Prof. John Campbell, PhD

Associate Director, Research and Development​

Scottish National Blood Transfusion Service, Edinburgh​


Everybody's an expert on the Internet. Even Dr. Google.

It's clinical medicine where one can see who's really a doctor in healthcare, because that's where the buck really stops.
 
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BLADEMDA

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You guys are rough crowd. The "evidence" for any of these supplements to prevent Covid 19 isn't there,. I agree with that statement. But, there is some association between these supplements and perhaps lower severity of infection. For those at risk and who refuse the vaccine I do think taking some of the supplements at low doses is a reasonable strategy to possibly reduce the severity of Covid 19.

Like I have posted , I myself take these supplements along with my first shot of an mRNA based Covid 19 vaccine. I believe the risk/benefit curve of taking these supplements (again at reasonable dosages) outweighs the risks.
 
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FFP

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You guys are rough crowd. The "evidence" for any of these supplements to prevent Covid 19 isn't there,. I agree with that statement. But, there is some association between these supplements and perhaps lower severity of infection. For those at risk and who refuse the vaccine I do think taking some of the supplements at low doses is a reasonable strategy to possibly reduce the severity of Covid 19.

Like I have posted , I myself take these supplements along with my first shot of an mRNA based Covid 19 vaccine. I believe the risk/benefit curve of taking these supplements (again at reasonable dosages) outweighs the risks.
Absolutely. But presenting them as effective therapy or prophylaxis, while badmouthing the vaccines, as the OP did, is ridiculous.

I myself take 10.000 IU of vitamin D quasi-weekly, during the winter, and the occasional 2-3 grams of vitamin C for symptomatic improvement, when I have a cold. I just don't confuse (personal) medical anecdotes with evidence. This is the kind of stuff that has killed even smart people like Steve Jobs.

Medicine is like physics: when the superlogical theory doesn't fit the observed outcome, it's the theory that's wrong. Nature has her own logic.
 
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You guys are rough crowd. The "evidence" for any of these supplements to prevent Covid 19 isn't there,. I agree with that statement. But, there is some association between these supplements and perhaps lower severity of infection. For those at risk and who refuse the vaccine I do think taking some of the supplements at low doses is a reasonable strategy to possibly reduce the severity of Covid 19.

Like I have posted , I myself take these supplements along with my first shot of an mRNA based Covid 19 vaccine. I believe the risk/benefit curve of taking these supplements (again at reasonable dosages) outweighs the risks.

I remember you spamming the articles about hydroxychloroquine too.
 
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FFP

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I remember you spamming the articles about hydroxychloroquine too.
He would have a LOT of spamming to do to compensate for all the good stuff along the years. Nobody's perfect.

At least he doesn't take his medical education from nurses.
 
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Actually that isn't what is happening at all. Dr John Campbell is also adamant about VitD3. He is asking why there is not any large randomized trials in queue from major health organizations, and rightly so.
I dismiss people who, as you are doing here, who instead of making a counter argument would rather attack me.

Let me reiterate for the nth time, for myself, the risk of COVID is extremely small. The risk of the vaccine is unknown. How can I further decrease my risk from this virus in a way of very little risk and possible huge benefit? That is what I have presented. This has caused people to attack. I am not the one in an echo chamber. I openly support others to dialogue in a respectful way. But I will be leaving, you can go back to everyone in a discussion agreeing. It is better for you that way because you are outside any echo chamber. Having everyone agree with you and viciously attacking the one person with a counter view is most definitely not an echo chamber.
I for one appreciate your dispassionate arguments and am a little surprised at the many all-caps replies. I think in some cases the irrational responses are quite telling.
 
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VA Hopeful Dr

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Zinc Deficiency Linked to Higher Post-op Opioid Consumption​



Multiple epidemiological studies in adults and children have demonstrated that vitamin D deficiency is associated with increased risk and greater severity of infection, particularly of the respiratory tract.


Once again, the deficiency is the problem. We have no evidence that fixing that deficiency with po vitamin d supplementation matters.

See my niacin example previously
 
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