Southpaw

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I for one appreciate your dispassionate arguments and am a little surprised at the many all-caps replies. I think in some cases the irrational responses are quite telling.

What responses are 1) irrational or 2) all caps?

Keep in mind we are in the midst of an awful pandemic. Hospitals full. Icus full. 330k dead. We have a vaccine proven to be effective. Vitamins haven’t been proven to do anything except correlate.

Also, importantly, this is a public forum. We may not believe it but the words of physicians do matter.

In my opinion touting unproven vitamins over an unproven (yet effective and safe so far....) vaccine is highly irresponsible.
 
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VA Hopeful Dr

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What responses are 1) irrational or 2) all caps?

Keep in mind we are in the midst of an awful pandemic. Hospitals full. Icus full. 330k dead. We have a vaccine proven to be effective. Vitamins haven’t been proven to do anything except correlate.

Also, importantly, this is a public forum. We may not believe it but the words of physicians do matter.

In my opinion touting unproven vitamins over an unproven (yet effective and safe so far....) vaccine is highly irresponsible.
I think it's worth letting that number sink in. 330k means that 1 in every 1000 Americans has died from this. That's not one in a thousand of people who have gotten infected, that is 1 in 1000 of the general population.
 
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FFP

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I think it's worth letting that number sink in. 330k means that 1 in every 1000 Americans has died from this. That's not one in a thousand of people who have gotten infected, that is 1 in 1000 of the general population.
See what happens when people don't take their vitamins?
 
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MeaCulpa

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Can anyone please show me where I have said that anyone should not get a vaccine/drug?
I have said in my case, my risk from COVID is extremely low. The risk from the vaccine is unknown.
In an at risk population, the risk from COVID may outweigh the unknown long term risk of the vaccine.
I am sharing the research available and what I am doing. The risk from what I am doing is low, if people follow the vitamin and supplement protocol I am following, which is basically the iMASK protocol being touted by Dr Paul Marik, then it may be of great benefit.
The reason I am sharing what I know is because I feel it would not be responsible to share info that may be beneficial to others.
 

IMGASMD

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See what happens when people don't take their vitamins?

Maybe I should have given Vitamin D out as Christmas gifts this year. A covid cure for you, a covid cure for you. Covid cure around the house!!

If we cannot convince the general public to wear masks when going out, I doubt we can convince anyone to take vitamin d as prevention or cure. Hell, we have physicians on this forum who were questioning the merits of wearing a goddamn mask.

I usually get all the crap URI from my kids, I must say, them being home and wearing masks in public really cut down on my URI from March onwards.
 
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MeaCulpa

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I think it's worth letting that number sink in. 330k means that 1 in every 1000 Americans has died from this. That's not one in a thousand of people who have gotten infected, that is 1 in 1000 of the general population.
From what I gathered, it appears you are a PCP or Family doc? Were you aware of the iMASK protocol? What are your thoughts now that you are aware?
 

FFP

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Maybe I should have given Vitamin D out as Christmas gifts this year. A covid cure for you, a covid cure for you. Covid cure around the house!!

If we cannot convince the general public to wear masks when going out, I doubt we can convince anyone to take vitamin d as prevention or cure. Hell, we have physicians on this forum who were questioning the merits of wearing a goddamn mask.

I usually get all the crap URI from my kids, I must say, them being home and wearing masks in public really cut down on my URI from March onwards.
Mine, too. I have never had so few infections, but I also attribute it to frequent hand-washing.
 
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Matthew9Thirtyfive

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Can anyone please show me where I have said that anyone should not get a vaccine/drug?
I have said in my case, my risk from COVID is extremely low. The risk from the vaccine is unknown.
In an at risk population, the risk from COVID may outweigh the unknown long term risk of the vaccine.
I am sharing the research available and what I am doing. The risk from what I am doing is low, if people follow the vitamin and supplement protocol I am following, which is basically the iMASK protocol being touted by Dr Paul Marik, then it may be of great benefit.
The reason I am sharing what I know is because I feel it would not be responsible to share info that may be beneficial to others.

The risk from the vaccine is not unknown. We have mRNA clinical trials from back as far as 2009 where long term safety data are still being collected, and they appear to be safe even long term. That you choose to ignore this and call anyone a liar who points this out doesn’t make it untrue.

edit: also the clinical trial was powered to be 83% likely to detect an adverse event that is 1 in 1000 or more common.

And your COVID risk might be low, but if you did get it and gave it to someone whose risk was not low, that’s even worse. The long term effects of a COVID infection can be extremely severe. It boggles my mind that a physician could say it is better to risk getting it than to get the vaccine.
 
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FFP

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From what I gathered, it appears you are a PCP or Family doc? Were you aware of the iMASK protocol? What are your thoughts now that you are aware?
He was aware until you deleted about half of this thread, including its title, like an angry toddler smashing toys.

I am an intensivist, and I can tell you that NOBODY on the 10-15 good critical care/EM sites I follow has ever mentioned the MATH+ protocol, as far as I can remember. That's how little respect it gets in serious circles, especially since the VITAMINS trial sank Dr. Marik's boat.

And no, we are not idiots. We are the kind of people that like to try new stuff, if that's what saves our patients. Right after "First Do No Harm!".
 
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FFP

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Can anyone please show me where I have said that anyone should not get a vaccine/drug?
I have said in my case, my risk from COVID is extremely low. The risk from the vaccine is unknown.
In an at risk population, the risk from COVID may outweigh the unknown long term risk of the vaccine.
I am sharing the research available and what I am doing. The risk from what I am doing is low, if people follow the vitamin and supplement protocol I am following, which is basically the iMASK protocol being touted by Dr Paul Marik, then it may be of great benefit.
The reason I am sharing what I know is because I feel it would not be responsible to share info that may be beneficial to others.
In the age of social media, do you really think physicians/intensivists just keep killing their patients, despite these cheap miracle cures lying around?

As I said before, I have a ton of respect for Dr. Marik for other reasons, so I find it sad that the man doesn't understand how much credibility he's lost with the irreproducibility of his sepsis protocol outcomes. Same for resisting doing proper studies with proper control groups (based on "ethical" pretexts concerns) for all the sensationalist announcements he makes.

Anybody who has a medical diploma/license, and an ounce of critical thinking and knowledge of medical history (including all the failed miracle cures/protocols of the past, such as the famous "Early Goal-Directed Therapy in Sepsis") would shrug his shoulders and wait for more/better evidence. There was an entire thread about why we can't believe in hydroxychloroquine, back in spring, when HCQ was the miracle drug. Look it up. Physicians have killed more patients in history than saved with unsubstantiated "logical" interventions; millions just during the Spanish flu pandemic, with high dose-aspirin (up to 30 g/day), the miracle drug of those times. Guess what? Aspirin toxicity can look exactly like bad flu. Who knew (back then)?

The vaccine is not in the same category, because it has proven and significant benefits, at least short-term. Except for people who live like hermits, I tend to advise every person over 50 to get it. Mortality increases exponentially by the decade, with about 25-30% of the Covid-positive octogenarians ending up dead (let's not mention all the crippled survivors of severe disease).

Nothing is a better predictor for Covid-19 mortality than age, so it's understandable for a younger physician to avoid immunization for himself, but almost unforgivable if he works with elderly patients. The risks vs benefits discussion of getting a vaccine as a doctor is both about the physician and his patients.
 
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