12 year old at mstp interviews (for real!)

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it'd be cool to get this kid in a lab and run some experiments on him...
fMRI stuff for instance...
hey you know, if I were his parents, I would rent him out to labs for like 2-3 years, so that people could do tests and stuff on him. you know nothing dangerous or invasive, just psychological/ intelligence type tests.... I bet they could make some serious dough.

(PS: just kidding, kind of :D )

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After reading the loyola article about the kid, I think the mother has some issues. SHE directed his home schooling, SHE decided that high school had nothing to offer to him, SHE is saying that if he is not old enough for medical school then he can study music and compose. It sounds like SHE had the time to teach him pre-algebra when he was a toddler. How many other mothers do that? I am sure if more children were home-schooled in such a rigorous manner, this phenomenon would not seem so rare.

My teachers wanted to take me from the fifth grade to the ninth grade in one year because I was so far ahead of my classmates. I was bored to tears with school. My mother said no, she said I would adjust in due time, and I did. My genius was interupted when I found out that I would rather study boys for a while. By the time I was a senior in high school, I was at the head of my class, but not so far ahead that I was considered abnormal. It took me time to blend in and adjust with my peers. Where would I be if I had been fours years ahead? I can only wonder, but I have no regrets because I am sure I would be four years+ behind in other aspects of my life.

Sho has no true peers. Can he really relate to other 12 year-olds? Can he really relate to other MD/PhD students? Not that he will not make friends if he does not have them already, but can he ever feel like anyone understands his life. (Maybe he is just so far beyond needing others, these questions don't matter). It is my opinion (of my limited knowledge about Sho) that his mother has designed him to be a little machine. She has pushed him to the extreme, made all of his decisions (including if he can or can't have a freaking candy apple!!!!).

I always thought that becoming a medical scientist was something you have to have a true passion for. . . You have really thought out why you want to perform translational research. . . You did not choose the profession because it is the highest, most impressive set of degrees that one can achieve. . . Because an MD/PhD route makes it more convenient to be of legal age to hold an MD degree when you graduate. . . Because you "want to help people."

Any other MSTP applicants give those reasons? I suspect not, but please feel free to comment.
Isid
 
zoobaby, if you're talking about the same person i know, she has an MD and 2 PhDs!!
 
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Originally posted by Resident Alien
zoobaby, if you're talking about the same person i know, she has an MD and 2 PhDs!!

Probably is the same person. I mean, how many can there be in Cleveland? ;) She also said once that she was thinking about getting another PhD - this one in English - just for the fun of it.

:eek:
 
Originally posted by Zoobaby
Probably is the same person. I mean, how many can there be in Cleveland? ;) She also said once that she was thinking about getting another PhD - this one in English - just for the fun of it.

:eek:

I think Nathan Myhrvold, one of the former execs at Microsoft, has a nice alphabet soup of degrees. I think he entered college around 14 though. Something like 2 or 3 PhDs by the time he was 19-ish.
 
I hear ya, Isidella. Of the handful of kids who show extreme precociousness, an even smaller number are prepared for the non-academic challenges that accompany such drastic choices to enroll in college at a young age. It's a tough situation for parents to deal with when the child is so gifted, but they owe it to the kids to see if there is an alternative to the superaccelerated route through school. In some cases, such a path may indeed be the most suitable one for the kid, but this decision shouldn't be made lightly. My qualm with this particular case is that the mother didn't appear to investigate other possibilities rather than enrolling the child in college so young. She may not have wanted to hold his learning back, but nothing would have been lost had the kid spent an extra year trying out middle or high school.

I worry about the younger sister too. I wonder if they'll even try to start her out normally in school before jump-starting her education.
 
I believe most of you have missed the true questions surrounding this phenomena.

1) Who picked out his suit and what color was it? (jot can probably give the low down on this)

2) Will he be an URM? I'm sure there are people out there supporting vertically challenged medical applicants. He's definitley in a minority as a prodigy if nothing else.

3) When he is in or out of class, is he as easily distracted by the women, sports, and video games, which I believe are the real constraints on modern men. If it wasn't for those three factors, I know I personally would have done a lot better during the last decade of my schooling.

4) I assume patients in academic hospitals have to authorize that it is all right to be seen by a medical student. Even if he is around 18 when he hits the wards, how many patients would be okay with that. Forget the gyn. exams and stuff, but if he is still a kid at heart (like some have advocated) would he ever play around with a patient?

5) I'm sure school's will love him because he will definitely accomplish create things in research. I don't know much about prodigies, but do they have the capacity to think independently as is necessary in research?

6) Personally, I wouldn't want to be this kid. I've enjoyed the middle school, high school, college experience. If his life focus is his career, he is definitley on the right path, but I consider my career an accessory to my life.

Just my $.02.
 
Thanks for the links, mystic_b
 
I can see it now...the kid is in the delivery room to catch a baby when the nurse accidentally wraps him up in a towel and hands him to the mother mistaking him for the baby. Whoops!
 
Any word if his Mom and/or Dad and/or Lil Sis are going to go to med school with him? A whole family of gunners!
 
When I was a kid I was really bright. I did not at all fit in with my peers. I was not into physical activities, but rather I liked to read and play around with computers. I was a total outcast in my public schools, and yet they refused to move me ahead because they said I wouldn't be able to fit in with the students. I didn't fit in with the students anyways, and was subjected to many years of having no friends and getting constantly beat up. Anyways, I don't mean to complain, but I do really dislike people that claim that kids shouldn't advance because they won't fit in. They likely won't fit in anyways.

That being said, I totally think he should be free to get a PhD at his age. But an MD? I do not think he is old enough to do MD work. How are patients going to respect him? Is he really mature enough to handle it? Legal issues? If he wants a PhD, he should go for it and come back for the MD when he's a little older. It would be no problem for him to take it up then.

Well, whatever. The kid has got better interviews than I do, so I guess I should shut up.
 
his mama sounds crazy though...
 
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Hmmm...can one imagine him doing a rectal exam?
 
Wow, thats one smart cookie!! :eek:

Wow, my intelligence is roughly equal to a rock compared to this kid.
Hehe I don't even know my IQ, they gave me a test once but it was too low to gain admittance into some gifted program (in fact i think it was so low they didn't bother telling my parents :rolleyes: )
 
He may be smarter than me, but I figure I could beat him up!
 
it'd be interesting if this kid were reading sdn. he's suddenly become an sdn celebrity...
 
A 12 year old with nothing else to do other than homework, play with toys, the computer, and read.........I'd put money on him reading SDN.
 
please you think his mom lets him browse the web indepedently? with all the bad things there are out there... :rolleyes:
not hating now - ok maybe a little, but the kid really should bone up on his english grammer.
anyone read the CBS article? WTF was he saying???
he should stick to physics and math, and maybe an engineer.
does NASA have any age requirements?
 
I think that there isn't a problem wrong with that kid getting his MD in his teen years. The only thing that was wrong is our perception on what it is to be a doctor mold doesn't fit with the kid (just mind boggaling). The kid is more advance then all of us (speaking loosely) and probably will make a descent doctor. We don't really know because that kid could be mature for his age. However, if he was my kid I won't let him make the same decesion as that 12 year old prodigy. flame proof, and ready
 
Originally posted by DarkChild

not hating now - ok maybe a little, but the kid really should bone up on his english grammer.

Originally posted by Raptor

(just mind boggaling). The kid is more advance then all of us (speaking loosely) and probably will make a descent doctor.


And maybe you guys should check your sperlling and grandmer. :D
 
Imagine this scenerio: Dr. Doogie II walks in to the exam room to consult an elderly patient of the use of adult diapers. He tells the patient that this type of thing isn't that bad. "It was just a couple of years ago when I got of my huggies, they really aren't that bad...I used the ultra slim fit ones and I thought they were great when I was studying for the MCAT and got excited over a few questions on Bernoulli's Principle"



;)
 
Originally posted by qweewq11
I thot medical schools required that you be over 18....

no, i'm pretty sure this isn't the case, few years ago, they had a student graduate medschool at 18.

but, there is a law that requires you to be 21 to see patients in many states. I hope that boy know that.
 
Originally posted by Raptor
I think that there isn't a problem wrong with that kid getting his MD in his teen years. The only thing that was wrong is our perception on what it is to be a doctor mold doesn't fit with the kid (just mind boggaling). The kid is more advance then all of us (speaking loosely) and probably will make a descent doctor. We don't really know because that kid could be mature for his age. However, if he was my kid I won't let him make the same decesion as that 12 year old prodigy. flame proof, and ready

YEAH! someone agrees with me...last time i tried to make that statement on SDN, at wrote tons of convincing examples, i could convince too few people. Nonetheless this debate has (finally) lost it's novelty for me, so you make take the onus of the flame war to start.

Sonya
PS, started college at 9, graduated at 18, with at least 2-300 units, and a lot of fun classes, activities, and a great life.
 
I just want to post the link to the CBS news article

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/12/05/60II/main254786.shtml

Dude, if this guy is doing MD/PhD with me, that'd be VERY interesting

though, he does seem kinda dumb as far as language abilities. I guess it's hard to catch up on that sort of stuff...and I don't think he's that good in mathematics either. We'll see if he gets in anywhere, but even if he does, i don't know how much people like that would do to experimental biology. (Tho, remember James Watson graduated Uof Chicago at 18, i think...that lucky bastard)
 
Originally posted by BobbyDylanFan
Imagine this scenerio: Dr. Doogie II walks in to the exam room to consult an elderly patient of the use of adult diapers. He tells the patient that this type of thing isn't that bad. "It was just a couple of years ago when I got of my huggies, they really aren't that bad...I used the ultra slim fit ones and I thought they were great when I was studying for the MCAT and got excited over a few questions on Bernoulli's Principle"
;)

:laugh: :laugh:
 
in terms of age, i don't think it'll be a major problem.

if he goes to a school w/ a traditional curriculum and doesn't see patients until 3rd year, then it'd be 2 md+3 phd = 5 years from now until he begins with the rotations. by then, he'd be 17 and i think people wouldn't really be able to tell the difference between a really mature 17 year old and a 23 year old.
 
Originally posted by Yogi Bear
in terms of age, i don't think it'll be a major problem.

if he goes to a school w/ a traditional curriculum and doesn't see patients until 3rd year, then it'd be 2 md+3 phd = 5 years from now until he begins with the rotations. by then, he'd be 17 and i think people wouldn't really be able to tell the difference between a really mature 17 year old and a 23 year old.

Unless he's still going through puberty and his voice cracks.
 
Puberty at 17? Man, that would suck.
 
Originally posted by Yogi Bear
in terms of age, i don't think it'll be a major problem.
by then, he'd be 17 and i think people wouldn't really be able to tell the difference between a really mature 17 year old and a 23 year old.
I don't know, I still think there is a huge change in even the most mature person between these two ages. I know I have. ;)
 
I'm reluctant to add anything to this thread, if for no reason other than the fact that we cannot truly understand this child's parents intentions in allowing (or forcing) him to persue this route. I was a kind of precocious 12 year old, and while I thought I kind of wanted to be a doctor when I "grew up", that was like the backup option if, for some reason, I didn't get drafted to play in the NBA!

So this kid is into research, what advantage does he have over other students? He's younger, so what, does that mean he gets that many more years to work on something before he retires, or what? I don't get it, the more experience you have in science in general, the more productive your research can become, hence why my profs. get 150 G a year, and I get $11.50 working in the same lab.

No matter how amazingly creative and farsighted this kid is, and I have not heard these terms used to describe him yet, he will be disadvantaged with respect to an equally creative (at the very least) 19 year old going for his MD/PhD.

I wish him well, and hope, for his own sake, that his parents are doing this for something more than shock value.
 
you know sometimes i wonder why the REALLY super smart kids go into medicine. i mean, being a doc takes some intelligence but it's not like the hardest thing you can do. if i was a super genius like this kid i'd be doing theoretical physics and picking up where hawking and einstein left off. or doing something on philosophy... you know, like solving the REALLY big problems or questions. or come up with some brilliant mathematical proofs, etc. i think it's pretty badass that he's going to do research and get his md/phd hehe, but i mean, it sort of seems like a waste of talent. he should at least make some music or art on the side while he gets his degree. :)
 
why, just because some one is really smart, does he have an obligation to use his talents to the best possible way? suppose he likes being a doctor, and doesn't care about atomic physics?
PS, i certainly think a PhD in physics or math would be a TON of a lot easier and faster then medicine. Besides, you can ask fundamentally philosiphical cool stuff w/ neuro research.

oh, i've seen this story before, tons of times. it's kindof different, considering the publicity this story has had.. maybe.
 
I can understand why this little guys parents have allowed him to attend a university. While my son certainly isn't a genious, he is science minded....far beyond what his fifth grade is able to give. (don't talk about english though because he's failing!) As a parent it is difficult to provide information on "why doesn't sound travel through space" and "why DOES light travel through space" without resorting to college level material. Since my son isn't the prodigy type I taught him general chemistry and a little physics this summer in order to keep him excited about science. You can't look into the eyes of your child who is excited and serious about wanting an answer and say no. You try everything you can to keep the flame of excitment over learning alive. If that means college, then I too would accompany my child to the university if that was what it took. (notice they don't send him alone)
 
Sorry to take up so much space, but i got this article through my school's journals- Many people asked about extracurriculars and the article mentions some of the stuff he does...

Full Text:
(Copyright 2000 by the Chicago Tribune)

The genius knows the whisperers do not wish to offend. He knows they do not mean to make him feel like more of an outsider than he already is. He knows how hard it would be to resist talking about the few dramatic details known about this 4-foot-3-inch person who sticks out on Loyola University's lush green campus like a horse jockey in a crowd of offensive linemen:
The genius is 9.
He is so brilliant, tests cannot measure his IQ.
And he is a full-time, pre-med college freshman who got a 106 percent on his most recent chemistry exam and who Loyola officials think is the youngest college student in the country.
The whisperers know these limited details about the genius, and they discuss them endlessly. But virtually no one--save for the gentle priest who has become his friend and the few matronly college administrators who look after him--knows the genius' real name or his extraordinary story, the one that began five years ago when his mother embarked on the usually very ordinary journey of enrolling her firstborn in kindergarten.
They do not know the genius plays Beethoven like a professional pianist and grows chamomile in his garden and considers Martin Luther King Jr. the most respectable person ever.
They do not know the genius' wee, picture-perfect, 4-year-old sister is suspected to be equally brilliant, if not more so.
And they do not know that behind it all, behind the genius' straight A's and poker-faced classroom demeanor and infuriatingly correct answers to all his professors' impossible questions, is a kind-hearted boy who has read the entire Bible three times and who stops to play with ladybugs between class and who saves every cent of his birthday money to buy his mother expensive jewelry from Bloomingdale's.
So the people whisper, and with a shrug of his bony, slender shoulders, Sho Yano says he doesn't care.
He just wishes they would stop calling him "the genius."
Piano prodigy
The first sign there was something special about Sho Yano came when he was 3.
His mother, Kyung Yano, a Korean immigrant with a master's degree in art history, remembers the day she was practicing the piano, trying to complete one of Chopin's most complicated compositions.
Again and again, the young mother replayed the same bar, growing more frustrated each time she blundered the beautiful notes. She finally gave up and walked to the kitchen, leaving little Sho playing with his toys at the foot of the piano.
Suddenly, standing at the sink, Kyung Yano heard the flawless music drifting from the living room.
"People don't believe this story," the pretty, outgoing woman says, "and I didn't at first either, but that's the moment I knew Sho was special. But I figured he was only gifted in music."
But it turned out Sho was too smart for kindergarten. Too smart for a gifted school. Too smart for the high school lessons in calculus and microbiology that his mother prepared for him from a home-schooling package.
The boy read Shakespeare and Salinger and C.S. Lewis.
He begged for more math homework.
He would get so absorbed in science books that someone would have to pull the book away to get his attention.
"I would have to study late at night to teach him in the morning," Kyung Yano said, "and sometimes when I didn't know how to teach him something, he'd just take the pencil and say, `Let me show you, mom.'"
Sho giggles at the story and puts his arm around his mother's shoulders. His little sister, Sayuri, who already is showing many of the same talents, giggles too.
"We are just ordinary people," Sho's business executive father, Katsura Yano, says modestly, stealing a quick glance at his spectacled, smiling son. "This has been a real journey for us."
So at the age of 9, Sho told his parents what he craved:
College. A four-year university. Classes that would challenge him for the first time in his life.
The Yanos considered Northwestern University, but admissions officers there expressed concern about his age. The University of Chicago had the same reservations, and Sho was bitterly disappointed.
His mother remembers him whining: "But, mom, they have produced so many Nobel Prize winners."
Through a family friend who worked at Loyola University, the Yanos started considering the historic, working-class Jesuit university on Chicago's North Side.
Several admissions officers sat down with Sho. From his side of the polished conference table, the poised boy told them exactly what he was thinking:
Pre-med undergrad, with an early emphasis on chemistry and biology. Minor in classical music, piano specifically. Graduate from college at 12. Medical school by 14, earlier if possible.
From across the table, the university representatives looked at the handsome, floppy-haired boy in amazement. Then Sho remembers Dr. Jeff Doering, the head of the biology department, smiling and saying this:
"I guess we'll just have to rig up a stool or something up so he can reach the microscopes."
Welcome to college
On his first day of college, Sho Yano barely made a ripple at Loyola.
His mother dropped him off at biology class, and the boy struggled up eight flights of stairs to the classroom. At 65 pounds, he couldn't lift his book bag, so he pulled it behind him on wheels.
When he took his seat, Sho heard someone in the back whisper, "You've got to be kidding," and that was how it all began.
At first only the students in the science department knew about the pre-med freshman who was still planning his 10th birthday party.
Then their roommates knew.
Then thei roommates' classmates knew.
And by the end of the week, as Sho Yano pulled his book-laden bag behind him, as he prepared for his first college-level English quiz and finally figured out where all his classrooms were, the whispers had started:
A genius was on campus.
Campus life
 
Sho Yano plops into a seat in the front row of Professor Claire Sanchez's English 106 class. The closest student sits three rows behind him.
"What did you write your papers on?" Sho asks casually, turning to the students behind him.
Someone wrote on doctor-assisted suicides. Someone wrote on the Vietnam War.
"What did you write about?" 18-year-old Loyola volleyball standout Shawn Schroeder asks.
"It's on the link between cell phones and cancer," Sho responds, offering Schroeder a look at a typed first draft.
"My God, Sho," another student says. "You've got almost four pages of single-spaced type there. It only has to be three pages of double space."
"Come on, buddy," Schroeder says, teasing. "Take it easy on us."
Then everyone laughs, and someone gives Sho a high-five.
It had taken almost three weeks, but Sho Yano finally is one of them. The fact is, it's hard to talk to someone like a kid when you're using words like prophase and metaphase and karyotype and mitosis. So pretty soon you just talk to him like an equal, like a classmate, like someone who could maybe help you with your homework, even if his little feet can't quite touch the ground when he's sitting at his desk.
But that doesn't make the whispers stop.
It doesn't stop one student from yelling, "Hey, shorty," across the campus lawn.
And it doesn't stop Bailey Ziegler, 18, from announcing to her classmates, standing just inches from Sho's desk, that she has already figured out the topic for her next English paper:
"I'm going to write about how underage kids shouldn't go to college because they're just not socially ready."
1st impressions
Rev. John J. Piderit, the president of Loyola University, adored the boy from the start:
There he was, 9 years old, feet dangling from the wooden chair in the priest's ornate university office.
The man and child talked about Loyola. About Sho's life goals. About how much he loved his family.
"There's just something about that boy," Piderit said for weeks after meeting Sho and formally welcoming him to Loyola University.
And how could Piderit not befriend the boy?
Sho was polite.
He was honest.
He'd already read the entire Bible three times. (Only the first two times were with an edition that had pictures.)
"I was particularly struck with how great God's gifts are when looking at this young child," Piderit said.
So Sho stops by the university offices whenever he wants. The secretaries pat his back when he talks to them. And the professors talk about how much they love it when he packs up his rolling book bag after class, heads out the door, then turns around to primly wave goodbye.
"He's a pure delight," Piderit said.
Growing up gifted
Peter Rosenstein grew up gifted.
He knows people say it is a blessing--and it is in many regards-- but sometimes it almost seems like a curse. The executive director of the National Association for Gifted Children tries to explain what it must feel like to be so different that only one percent of one percent of one percent of the population is as smart as you, according to intelligence experts.
"It must seem very lonely," he said. "Imagine walking around in a world where 99.999 percent of people are not like you."
Nobody knows what Sho's IQ is. Most IQ tests stop measuring at about 200. Any higher than that, and people are described as "off the chart." That's Sho.
Ask Rosenstein the obvious questions:
Dos this kind of intelligence run in families or is it a fluke? Is it genetic or socialized? Do most of these children turn out to be well-adjusted adults? How high might their IQs be since they ace the standard that measures only to about 200?
"Don't know. Don't know. Don't know. Don't know," he says, laughing.
But the question remains: Is college the best place for these kids?
Another expert, Joseph Renzulli, director of the National Research Center on the Gifted and Talented at the University of Connecticut, said the main prediction of whether genius children succeed is if they have friends and activities that encourage them to act like regular kids.
"If there is some balance between his intellectual and social development, he'll probably do fine," Renzulli said.
Kyung Yano says they are doing everything to give Sho that balance:
At tae kwon do practice, he races around with other kids his age.
He talks about his weekend with the students in his college classes.
And hanging in his room is a prized letter from a friend that reads: "I'm so glad you joined our church, my little friend. Oh, what an honor to have a genius."
Around the country, there are other children taking college courses, but Loyola officials believe Sho is the youngest one attending full time.
In New York, 6-year-old Justin Chapman is taking one course at the University of Rochester. In Ashland, Va., 10-year-old Greg Smith is a freshman at Randolph-Macon College. And 12-year-old Jessica Meeker started Penn State University in September.
"Still," Rosenstein says, "sometimes these kids feel like no one really understands them because most of our minds can't even begin to comprehend what is going on in theirs."
Maybe Sho does feel a little that way. At the end of last week, he sent a heartfelt e-mail to someone he had recently met.
"Most of the people think of me as only an academic genius," he wrote, "but I hope you found something besides that."
Odds and ends
Here's what else there is to know about Sho Yano:
Sometimes in class he takes notes about things before the professors even say them.
He won't read Harry Potter; he thinks Pokemon is absurd; he rarely watches television.
He shares with his sister.
By the end of the day, his jeans pockets are full of the things he has collected: dead bugs and flowers, brown leaves and pebbles, dry twigs and grass.
Bach is his hero.
He talks to his father about philosophy, starts behaving when his mother threatens a "time out," and ignores questions he thinks are too insignificant to answer.
He has an Einstein mouse pad.
He collects rocks, has stuffed animals in his room and sets his alarm clock for 4 a.m. so he can track the course of stars.
He giggles
When he plays the piano and can't perform a piece perfectly, he'll sit there for hours, fingers flying, until he cries.
His first reaction, upon finding out he got a 1500 (out of 1600) on his SATs was, "I'm sure I got all the answers right. They must have made a mistake."
His favorite food is shrimp.
Call him Sho
Something happens over dinner at a Chinese restaurant that sums up Sho Yano, part regular boy, part whiz kid:
While drinking his milk with a straw, he blows bubbles into the glass until the white liquid splatters onto the table. Then, as his father wipes up the mess, Sho leans back in his chair and begins delivering a soliloquy on the moral and ethical implications of genetic cloning.
As the meal ends--Sho didn't finish his garlic shrimp--he tells his mom he is tired. He thinks he'll go straight to bed when they get home.
It's a big day tomorrow: chemistry lab. He will have to calculate the empirical formula of zinc oxide.
Rubbing his eyes, while his dad pays the check, Sho opens his fortune cookie: "The weekend ahead predicts enjoyment."
The boy's eyes turn starry, and he talks excitedly about what he would do on his perfect weekend: "I'd finish my homework," he says.
As the family gets ready to leave, Sho talks with his parents about what everyone calls him on campus. The genius. He hates that word.
"I wouldn't call myself a genius," he says, eyes getting sleepier. "The word really doesn't mean anything. I would just say that I have, for whatever reason, a very special gift from God."So please, just call him Sho.
The name, after all, means "happiness with God."
 
I had tears in my eyes reading this thread. So many of you are joking about this poor kid. Yes-he has a gift, but you may not realize the full extent to which this gift hinders him in terms of functioning in the "average" world. Since none of you know me in person, and at the risk of sounding like a braggart, I will now tell you something that only my parents, husband, best friend, and my old teachers and administrators know. Then maybe you'll realize just how difficult life is for us rare animals known as child prodigies. People like to poke fun at us because they can't understand us, and most never realize that we're people with feelings too. While you sneer at his parents for doing this for him, here's a picture of what it's like the other route. It's a no-win situation because we simply don't fit anywhere!

According to my mom, I learned how to read on my own at age 18 months. Being an only child, my mother encouraged me and did things for me. She had taught me my basic math facts by the time I was 2, and bought me a complete set of encyclopedias, which I read voraciously. By the time I'd spent one week in kindergarten, my teacher sent me home saying she couldn't handle me. Not to mention I couldn't relate AT ALL to other kids. Playing in the sandbox? Yeah right, I'd rather be reading about carbon-dating of Egyptian mummies.

Anyway, my parents took me for a battery of testing at age 5. They could not measure my IQ because their tests only went up to 195. All of my basic skills and knowledge were at or above an eighth grade level and my reading/verbal reasoning skills were at a college level. They didn't know what to do with me, so for lack of other options they took me to a private school where I got stuck in third grade because the administrators were concerned about my social skills.

All through school, EVERYONE hated me, kids and teachers. I got laughed at, teased, ignored, etc. My teacher in third grade assigned a book report, so I did one on the novel Watership Down (it's a reflection on things in society told as a story involving a colony of rabbits who act and think like humans). She gave me an F, called my parents in for a conference since she didn't believe I could even read the book, let alone understand and digest the themes for a book report. Once she realized that it was true, she then said that she couldn't have me operating at that level and disrupting the class, then insisted I do things at grade level. It was then that I realized this was something I had to "hide" if I wanted to avoid being yelled at. I didn't realize until much later that people yelled at me because they were threatened by my gift.

For the rest of my school career, I progressed "normally", although my grades sucked. I was one of those kids who slept or daydreamed through class, never did their homework, yet aced all the tests. Not to mention it took me until high school to learn basic social skills and finally make some friends. But even then, most of the gossip and things that are the lifeblood of high school bored me, but I had to pretend to be interested to fit in. So I continued through life denying my gift, simply existing and trying to act like a normal person, and became unhappier and unhappier and taking no interest in my life or its direction, since I couldn't operate at the level I needed in order to feel like an integrated, whole person.

I graduated high school at 16 and promptly became a teenage mother and got married to an abusive alcoholic. Years later, when I finally got a divorce and decided to go to college, the same thing happened. I decided, OK, college is the place where I can be myself and shine, so I did what comes naturally again. I got a perfect score on the ACT without studying and with a hangover the morning of the test. College classes were easy for me. Apart from writing papers and doing required homework, I didn't have to study at all. Life intervened and I had to drop out and work, and I'll be returning in January with a whole new outlook. I've learned much in the interim, but the fact remains I still have to hide it sometimes. Statistically, they estimate that there is only one person with mine or Sho's IQ level for every 3.4 million people. Try being the odd one out there.

I know this is really long, but the point of it is that we are as far above the average as a completely dependent mentally ******ed person is below. I don't think of myself as superior in any way to others or more deserving of anything, because I'm not. I'm simply different in a way which ensures my isolation because so very few have this difference in common and can think and talk about it in a way that we will both understand. Like the article said, most minds cannot even begin to comprehend what is going on in ours.

Flame me, dismiss me as the "genius", start acting strange towards me for this all you want, I'm used to it. That is the very reason I don't tell people, although quite a bit after a short time they say "there's something weird about her" anyway. And then I go home and say to myself "well, I just don't fit in, I never will and I can't expect to, but I will keep trying". I've learned a lot about interpersonal relations, and I've gotten very good at learning what level I need to "lower" myself to in order to relate to and communicate with other people-I'm an extremely good actress. And I always try and gently guide people to the next level, if possible.

But in the end, my mind is mine alone-no one can join me there except my one friend who is also at the same level. A lot of these musings are the product of long talks we've had about what it's like, although we can't spend too much time together because both of us are so used to being alone in our minds that we get kind of freaked out by each other since we've lived our whole lives inside our heads, basically, and can only come out of the shell for short periods at a time.

So either way, whether you hide it or let it hang out for all to see, it's a no-win situation. We just aren't normal and that's all there is to it.
 
I'm not taking THAT bait. . . Anyone? Anyone?
 
Originally posted by jenni4476
I had tears in my eyes reading this thread. So many of you are joking about this poor kid. Yes-he has a gift, but you may not realize the full extent to which this gift hinders him in terms of functioning in the "average" world. Since none of you know me in person, and at the risk of sounding like a braggart, I will now tell you something that only my parents, husband, best friend, and my old teachers and administrators know. Then maybe you'll realize just how difficult life is for us rare animals known as child prodigies. People like to poke fun at us because they can't understand us, and most never realize that we're people with feelings too. While you sneer at his parents for doing this for him, here's a picture of what it's like the other route. It's a no-win situation because we simply don't fit anywhere!

According to my mom, I learned how to read on my own at age 18 months. Being an only child, my mother encouraged me and did things for me. She had taught me my basic math facts by the time I was 2, and bought me a complete set of encyclopedias, which I read voraciously. By the time I'd spent one week in kindergarten, my teacher sent me home saying she couldn't handle me. Not to mention I couldn't relate AT ALL to other kids. Playing in the sandbox? Yeah right, I'd rather be reading about carbon-dating of Egyptian mummies.

Anyway, my parents took me for a battery of testing at age 5. They could not measure my IQ because their tests only went up to 195. All of my basic skills and knowledge were at or above an eighth grade level and my reading/verbal reasoning skills were at a college level. They didn't know what to do with me, so for lack of other options they took me to a private school where I got stuck in third grade because the administrators were concerned about my social skills.

All through school, EVERYONE hated me, kids and teachers. I got laughed at, teased, ignored, etc. My teacher in third grade assigned a book report, so I did one on the novel Watership Down (it's a reflection on things in society told as a story involving a colony of rabbits who act and think like humans). She gave me an F, called my parents in for a conference since she didn't believe I could even read the book, let alone understand and digest the themes for a book report. Once she realized that it was true, she then said that she couldn't have me operating at that level and disrupting the class, then insisted I do things at grade level. It was then that I realized this was something I had to "hide" if I wanted to avoid being yelled at. I didn't realize until much later that people yelled at me because they were threatened by my gift.

For the rest of my school career, I progressed "normally", although my grades sucked. I was one of those kids who slept or daydreamed through class, never did their homework, yet aced all the tests. Not to mention it took me until high school to learn basic social skills and finally make some friends. But even then, most of the gossip and things that are the lifeblood of high school bored me, but I had to pretend to be interested to fit in. So I continued through life denying my gift, simply existing and trying to act like a normal person, and became unhappier and unhappier and taking no interest in my life or its direction, since I couldn't operate at the level I needed in order to feel like an integrated, whole person.

I graduated high school at 16 and promptly became a teenage mother and got married to an abusive alcoholic. Years later, when I finally got a divorce and decided to go to college, the same thing happened. I decided, OK, college is the place where I can be myself and shine, so I did what comes naturally again. I got a perfect score on the ACT without studying and with a hangover the morning of the test. College classes were easy for me. Apart from writing papers and doing required homework, I didn't have to study at all. Life intervened and I had to drop out and work, and I'll be returning in January with a whole new outlook. I've learned much in the interim, but the fact remains I still have to hide it sometimes. Statistically, they estimate that there is only one person with mine or Sho's IQ level for every 3.4 million people. Try being the odd one out there.

I know this is really long, but the point of it is that we are as far above the average as a completely dependent mentally ******ed person is below. I don't think of myself as superior in any way to others or more deserving of anything, because I'm not. I'm simply different in a way which ensures my isolation because so very few have this difference in common and can think and talk about it in a way that we will both understand. Like the article said, most minds cannot even begin to comprehend what is going on in ours.

Flame me, dismiss me as the "genius", start acting strange towards me for this all you want, I'm used to it. That is the very reason I don't tell people, although quite a bit after a short time they say "there's something weird about her" anyway. And then I go home and say to myself "well, I just don't fit in, I never will and I can't expect to, but I will keep trying". I've learned a lot about interpersonal relations, and I've gotten very good at learning what level I need to "lower" myself to in order to relate to and communicate with other people-I'm an extremely good actress. And I always try and gently guide people to the next level, if possible.

But in the end, my mind is mine alone-no one can join me there except my one friend who is also at the same level. A lot of these musings are the product of long talks we've had about what it's like, although we can't spend too much time together because both of us are so used to being alone in our minds that we get kind of freaked out by each other since we've lived our whole lives inside our heads, basically, and can only come out of the shell for short periods at a time.

So either way, whether you hide it or let it hang out for all to see, it's a no-win situation. We just aren't normal and that's all there is to it.

wow... a very poignant story. just out of curiosity, did you also score off the charts on the mcats?
 
Originally posted by jenni4476
I had tears in my eyes reading this thread. So many of you are joking about this poor kid. Yes-he has a gift, but you may not realize the full extent to which this gift hinders him in terms of functioning in the "average" world. Since none of you know me in person, and at the risk of sounding like a braggart, I will now tell you something that only my parents, husband, best friend, and my old teachers and administrators know. Then maybe you'll realize just how difficult life is for us rare animals known as child prodigies. People like to poke fun at us because they can't understand us, and most never realize that we're people with feelings too. While you sneer at his parents for doing this for him, here's a picture of what it's like the other route. It's a no-win situation because we simply don't fit anywhere!

According to my mom, I learned how to read on my own at age 18 months. Being an only child, my mother encouraged me and did things for me. She had taught me my basic math facts by the time I was 2, and bought me a complete set of encyclopedias, which I read voraciously. By the time I'd spent one week in kindergarten, my teacher sent me home saying she couldn't handle me. Not to mention I couldn't relate AT ALL to other kids. Playing in the sandbox? Yeah right, I'd rather be reading about carbon-dating of Egyptian mummies.

Anyway, my parents took me for a battery of testing at age 5. They could not measure my IQ because their tests only went up to 195. All of my basic skills and knowledge were at or above an eighth grade level and my reading/verbal reasoning skills were at a college level. They didn't know what to do with me, so for lack of other options they took me to a private school where I got stuck in third grade because the administrators were concerned about my social skills.

All through school, EVERYONE hated me, kids and teachers. I got laughed at, teased, ignored, etc. My teacher in third grade assigned a book report, so I did one on the novel Watership Down (it's a reflection on things in society told as a story involving a colony of rabbits who act and think like humans). She gave me an F, called my parents in for a conference since she didn't believe I could even read the book, let alone understand and digest the themes for a book report. Once she realized that it was true, she then said that she couldn't have me operating at that level and disrupting the class, then insisted I do things at grade level. It was then that I realized this was something I had to "hide" if I wanted to avoid being yelled at. I didn't realize until much later that people yelled at me because they were threatened by my gift.

For the rest of my school career, I progressed "normally", although my grades sucked. I was one of those kids who slept or daydreamed through class, never did their homework, yet aced all the tests. Not to mention it took me until high school to learn basic social skills and finally make some friends. But even then, most of the gossip and things that are the lifeblood of high school bored me, but I had to pretend to be interested to fit in. So I continued through life denying my gift, simply existing and trying to act like a normal person, and became unhappier and unhappier and taking no interest in my life or its direction, since I couldn't operate at the level I needed in order to feel like an integrated, whole person.

I graduated high school at 16 and promptly became a teenage mother and got married to an abusive alcoholic. Years later, when I finally got a divorce and decided to go to college, the same thing happened. I decided, OK, college is the place where I can be myself and shine, so I did what comes naturally again. I got a perfect score on the ACT without studying and with a hangover the morning of the test. College classes were easy for me. Apart from writing papers and doing required homework, I didn't have to study at all. Life intervened and I had to drop out and work, and I'll be returning in January with a whole new outlook. I've learned much in the interim, but the fact remains I still have to hide it sometimes. Statistically, they estimate that there is only one person with mine or Sho's IQ level for every 3.4 million people. Try being the odd one out there.

I know this is really long, but the point of it is that we are as far above the average as a completely dependent mentally ******ed person is below. I don't think of myself as superior in any way to others or more deserving of anything, because I'm not. I'm simply different in a way which ensures my isolation because so very few have this difference in common and can think and talk about it in a way that we will both understand. Like the article said, most minds cannot even begin to comprehend what is going on in ours.

Flame me, dismiss me as the "genius", start acting strange towards me for this all you want, I'm used to it. That is the very reason I don't tell people, although quite a bit after a short time they say "there's something weird about her" anyway. And then I go home and say to myself "well, I just don't fit in, I never will and I can't expect to, but I will keep trying". I've learned a lot about interpersonal relations, and I've gotten very good at learning what level I need to "lower" myself to in order to relate to and communicate with other people-I'm an extremely good actress. And I always try and gently guide people to the next level, if possible.

But in the end, my mind is mine alone-no one can join me there except my one friend who is also at the same level. A lot of these musings are the product of long talks we've had about what it's like, although we can't spend too much time together because both of us are so used to being alone in our minds that we get kind of freaked out by each other since we've lived our whole lives inside our heads, basically, and can only come out of the shell for short periods at a time.

So either way, whether you hide it or let it hang out for all to see, it's a no-win situation. We just aren't normal and that's all there is to it.

Well... I guess the point of all this is that exceptional intelligence speaks nothing of emotional maturity. Am I right?
 
You are right-emotional maturity does not necessarily go with high intelligence. As a matter of fact, I think it's even harder to attain for "us" than for "normal" people. My like-minded friend is a notorious loner and frequently makes a fool of himself in social situations. I put up with it because I know exactly why he does it.

What is so difficult for us, since we're so different from others and used to being lonely, is to learn a little more about how "normal" people function and be able to adjust yourself to function on their level-to relate. For example-I've been partnered up for labs and group papers and such and I have to restrain myself from taking charge and steamrolling my partner. I simply tell myself-OK, I know it, but my partner doesn't, and I turn it into an opportunity to gently lead and teach my partner-I let them do as much as they're eager and willing to. End result-I learn more about how to deal with people and my partner learns a little more from me and we're both happy. If my partner has an attitude towards me, I distance myself emotionally from them and simply do the best I can on my portion in order to get our group grade up and help that way. It's basically a whole shift in perspective-you go from being frustrated because no one else can keep up with you to realizing their limitations and doing all you can to help.

As far as the MCATs go, I haven't taken them yet so I don't know what to expect, although I've seen some practice exams. I don't like to get overconfident because that may very well be the one time so far that I fall on my face. I try to stay as humble as I can and not take this for granted, because I feel like once I do, I will wind up becoming arrogant and annoying like so many other geniuses. I consider this another aspect of maturity and learning how to handle what's been given to me.

Again, sorry this is so long, but this is another curse upon us. We see so many sides and complications to EVERYTHING and feel that if we don't deal with them all, it's not properly done. I used up 6 test booklets on my English AP exam and everyone made fun of me for that! So I'm used to it, but this is the way I operate.
 
Originally posted by jenni4476
As a matter of fact, I think it's even harder to attain for "us" than for "normal" people.

Jenni-
Part of the problem may be your insistance on separating yourself from "normal" people. I think we are all different shades of normal. The more weight you put on your own intelligence, the more you will notice that other people supposedly lack what you have. The situation you descibed with your lab partner has happened to me; I think it has happened to most over-achieving pre-meds, many of whom post on this board. ;)

So your IQ is off the charts. I personally don't know mine, nor do I want to. I don't want to use such a number to compare myself to those around me. What if its embarassingly low, or so high that I then use it to explain why I have never swam with the other fish?

I am not trying to downplay your struggle to fit in with the rest of the world, but when you describe how unique you are and some of the choices you have made, I can't help but wonder what you are trying to prove us "normal people."

And if the MCAT knocks you on your a$$, don't take it personally. I personally know people (N=2, thanks Jot) who have genius-level IQs and had to retake to break 30. It probably won't bite you, but you never know.

Isid
 
Originally posted by jenni4476
I had tears in my eyes ....

I am not a genius, so I truly have no way to relate to anything you are saying. However, if the few people I've talked to that know Sho are telling me the truth, he is handling his gift better than the life you're describing. I don't think he gets wasted before taking standardized tests (and if he did I don't think he'd brag about it) and as far as I know, he isn't knocking any girls up. Perhaps substance abuse, psychological issues and lifestyle contributed more to your falling apart than did your intelligence. Perhaps if you began to change your mind-set and take pride in your gift instead of feeling sorry for yourself, things would turn around.

(If I have completely misread you and am way off base, I sincerely apologize.)
 
Jenni-
I felt like there was something a bit off when I was reading about your life and I wasn't quite sure what it was. Reading through some old threads tonight, I found one of your prior posts, describing yourself, and defending your position as a non-trad:

Originally posted by jenni4476

Lest you think I'm some stuffy old lady and dismiss me out of hand, let me tell you I'm 26. I still get down and party with my friends frequently, I dance and race my car as hobbies, in short, I have a life probably pretty similar to yours.

You were comparing yourself to a "normal" person. I don't like to call people like this, and rarely do I. You can be like "normal" people when you want to, but to make a dramatic point in a thread, you can convert into a ridiculed, genius outcast.

To make your point about Sho, you introduced some serious melodrama into this thread and you initially made me feel bad for the existance of this rapport.

Originally posted by jenni4476
So many of you are joking about this poor kid.

But in the midst of the jokes, there was a constuctive conversation going on with people sharing honest opinions of the situation.

My point is: be real. I think most people here are. These threads really can be helpful if they represent real life.

Isid
 
There was a story a while ago about a young girl who went to school at some college in the South. She was really young, but her parents let her go by herself. Well, to make a long story short, she ended up getting taken advantage of by the football and basketball teams. Members of the teams got her addicted to illicit drugs like cocaine and used her for sex.

If there really is no other place where these prodigies can receive the intellectual stimulation they crave, it seems like college is where they should be. And if their parents need to accompany them to prevent such abuse from occurring, then what's the big deal? Apparently, from the testimony we've heard from SDNers and from "experts" cited in news articles, these kids will be emotionally different no matter what. So why not let them progress with their lives?
 
Originally posted by immediatespring
so the guy's name is Sho?

a little late for the party aren't we?
:D
 
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